This game's primary audience is not the NA (North American) mmo market, therefore what the majority of the NA market currently demands from recent (post WoW) mmo's doesn't have the same weight in the direction of the development of FFXIV as it does most US based MMO's with few non US players.
I think that more than anything is a reason for "old school" players to put their hope in FFXIV. Basically less American influence all around (on the team, on the game, and in terms of actual players on servers).
The idea of not being able to solo at all is not old school or anything, its just bad.
Vanguard was an old school game, and you didnt needed to group there either.
What can be requested, though, is that you need to group for the really good places, otherwise its a bit pointless to make it a MMO.
Solo should be possible, but almost always perilous. Grouping should be the safer surer route to advancement. Incenting players to group means they end up talking to one another, depending upon one another, and forming bonds.
But having a solo-friendly game often means players level to cap without ever really getting to know anyone.
I have hopes that FF XIV will be a fine game. We shall see.
Good in theory but practically it doesn't work. There is a reason why EQ2 is being made more and more solo oriented except for end game dungeons, GW introduced heroes and henchies, LOTR made lower regions and book 1 completely soloable, Blizzard added dungeon tools for WOW... need more proofs?
The idea of not being able to solo at all is not old school or anything, its just bad.
Vanguard was an old school game, and you didnt needed to group there either.
What can be requested, though, is that you need to group for the really good places, otherwise its a bit pointless to make it a MMO.
Solo should be possible, but almost always perilous. Grouping should be the safer surer route to advancement. Incenting players to group means they end up talking to one another, depending upon one another, and forming bonds.
But having a solo-friendly game often means players level to cap without ever really getting to know anyone.
I have hopes that FF XIV will be a fine game. We shall see.
Good in theory but practically it doesn't work. There is a reason why EQ2 is being made more and more solo oriented except for end game dungeons, GW introduced heroes and henchies, LOTR made lower regions and book 1 completely soloable, Blizzard added dungeon tools for WOW... need more proofs?
EQ2 make old content more solo friendly because there simply aint the low lvl player base any longer, not that it makes a fun MMO, but is what theey aim for....making it easy to solo your way to top fast, since well ppl would just mainly quit n say they couldnt get anywhere as no groups to be found.
now to the ppl who dont understand why anyone would call FFXI a EQ1 clone, from my point of view who havent played either of them, they sound like the exact same experience, its almost 100% the same things ppl who talk about the games focus on, if you took out any description of combat,races, lore and the kind out I wouldnt be able to hear any diffrence at all....gameplay sounds like the same. how it is in practice may be diffrent....just doesnt sound like it
hm bit on topic, aint too certain they have made the lower lvls matter as much as would like it, but so far those guild leves is the the only thing they have said is solo so far. even starter mobs, a chocobo, is shown killed a small group...that do indicate that it is a group orientated game, but those things can change during alpha/beta.
I'm basing my opinion off of what I've read many people say on these boards, saying they won't like it if it's more casual friendly.
That's strange... what I have read is that most FFXI players want to be able to solo while waiting on a group instead of sitting in town...
I've also read that group play gives you the best rewards and solo play just gives you a mediocre outcome, so you'll need to group in order do much gear wise.
I'm basing my opinion off of what I've read many people say on these boards, saying they won't like it if it's more casual friendly.
That's strange... what I have read is that most FFXI players want to be able to solo while waiting on a group instead of sitting in town...
I've also read that group play gives you the best rewards and solo play just gives you a mediocre outcome, so you'll need to group in order do much gear wise.
If it has tons of quest it can't be old school. Old school is about being let loose unto a world, and making it on your own. Not about being led by the hand collecting wolf hides whilst trying to be max level in 3 weeks.
I find statements like this kind of amusing, because this difference you describe pretty much comes down to the individual player's attitude and approach toward the game more so than mechanics (unless you're talking specifically about the use of instancing in newer games). Even in a game like WoW you can choose to avoid quests entirely and just explore until you find that special corner in which to grind away to your heart's content.
On topic: I don't believe FFXIV is going to be "old school" - SE has always tried to do something new with every entry to the final fantasy series, and FFXI was no exception. Those calling FFXI an EQ clone don't know what they are talking about. I've already seen plenty of self-proclaimed "hardcore old school" players dictate that they basically want FFXIV to clone FFXI. I don't think I have to explain why that would make no sense for SE to do.
FFXIV will try something we haven't seen before - whether it will work out for the better or worse remains to be seen.
If it has tons of quest it can't be old school. Old school is about being let loose unto a world, and making it on your own. Not about being led by the hand collecting wolf hides whilst trying to be max level in 3 weeks.
Sarcasm off?
Hear of EverQuest?
Though you had to work at completing some/many of the quests, taking hours or even days, covering multiple zones. Not really hand holding and certainly not a get rich scheme or any way to make sure no one QQ for not having the same gear the other players had. But it was enough so you could get by until you could get better equipment. For questers, in some cases groups of them, it was just fun while you got some exp and gear.
No clue what your beef is, and I don't think you understood what I was saying. Are you claiming EQ had a ton of quest, or are you agreeing with me by saying EQ didn't throw a hundred quest per level at you? There were barely any quest in EQ.
Beef what? You read too much in. Actual question mark, not sure you were being sarcastic in thta instance of your post. The thread does start off on a sour note for some intent or reason.
EQ had plenty of quests, it was the name of the game in fact. Quests were just more challenging and took longer, thus less questing by the numbers, but more in volume. For others, questing was a pain, so they skipped it for the most part and just did the grind. Questing cant be dismissed, it's why I played both UO and EQ at the same time, as UO was about skill and environment while EQ was about questing and items. Anyway, I doubt the purpose of this thread, I would have done more than move it to the FF forums.
Umm, ya, not sure what you are talking about. You could very easily not do a single quest in EQ other than your epic 1.0 line until you started access quests for dungeons. There were quests to be done, but quests were NEVER the way people leveled. Hell, you could not level by quests alone in EQ even if you wanted to. And while most of them were quite crappy, they were far from complex.
The issue isnt whether quests are present, its whether quests are the primary vehicle for leveling. Most people see quest driven games as modern and lacking challenge, as well as social interaction. While a game could be designed otherwise, generally a quest driven game will always favor/reward soloing and dumbed down combat and strategy. That is what some people are concerned about: FFXIV being a online rpg rather than a mmorpg. And with the way SWTOR is looking, we dont really need another game in that category.
Edit: "I find statements like this kind of amusing, because this difference you describe pretty much comes down to the individual player's attitude and approach toward the game more so than mechanics (unless you're talking specifically about the use of instancing in newer games). Even in a game like WoW you can choose to avoid quests entirely and just explore until you find that special corner in which to grind away to your heart's content."
You could, but there is no point because the game is coded to reward questing, not grinding. While someone may want to explore and grind, they are not going to go the considerably slower route. If WoW rewarded grouping, grinding, pure-mob leveling, etc. just as much as questing, then your statement would be true.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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I'm one of the people that consider this game to be my messiah for mmo's. Now that said I don't really know if you all want to put that into the old school or new school category or not so I'll give me reasons and let you all decide which it would be.
First reason - Ever since the WoW release there hasn't been anything really note worthy for being good (At least not for me). I've picked up all the big hype games and played them for at least the first month before tossing them aside (even some small hype games as well), and some have been fairly successful such as LOTRO, but for me none of these games have brought that same feeling of greatness that FFXI did (FFXI was my first mmo). Also they are just so solo friendly that it's almost better to get a 360 and sit on xbox live talking to people on my friends list and playing a single player game.
Second - I've always been a Squaresoft / SE fan. I like the RPG genre and I like how Square has always put something new in their games.
Third - I hate running around with 12 year olds ( in some cases even 7-8 y/o) and having to be their parent almost because theirs are never around for them and the majority are so immature to the point that I want to take a belt to them for at least a good hour. This is a main reason for me because I started playing at a young age, I had just turned 14 when FFXI hit shelves in october, and I was never this bad (I'm 21 now). I feel I can say this because I very rarely end up playing with a group of people near my age, in fact a lot are 40+ with the occasional couple in their 30's.
Those are my main reasons. This is really the last game I'm even looking into and it has been that way since it was first hinted at. If this ends up being a total flop I'm just going to go back to playing FPS games again.
You could, but there is no point because the game is coded to reward questing, not grinding. While someone may want to explore and grind, they are not going to go the considerably slower route. If WoW rewarded grouping, grinding, pure-mob leveling, etc. just as much as questing, then your statement would be true.
You have apparently not played WoW during Wotlk, because my statement is true. Especially since the advent of the cross server lfg system, people have been skipping the quest content in favor of grinding through mobs in instances (because it's arguably the fastest way, especially with a group of friends). Even before the tool was released, some of the players that attained server-first achievements for reaching the next level cap of 80 did so purely through mob grinding in the open world.
Sure, most people wanted to quest toward the beginning because they wanted to see the lore and what new interesting quests blizzard put in - but after taking the first alt or so through that same content, people looked for efficient alternatives and found them.
Why are some people so sure that FFxiv is the messiah of teh old school? Because hope dies last? People that like heavy grouping, want a game like that and hope this will be it, even if it has some solo friendly elements. Hope they get what they are looking for, the more game variety the better.
I have no idea where the OP heard rumours such as this ,certainly not from me and i like what Square Enix does for the most part,albeit they still make several mistakes.
FFXI was in no way a sort of eq1 clone,that is what makes the FF series so great,it is a clone of nothing,it is it's own design.There is not one single game on the MMORPG market that does quests like FFXI does,where by you do not gain xp rewards.There is no other game that does the sub class system properly,a few games have tried to copy it,but done horribly bad.
If anything FFXIV is actually NOTHING close to old school,it is much closer to copying/mimmicking the EQ's Wow's of the rpg world.It is a game that is going to put a huge emphasis on the GUILD and you will be doing guild quests to gain xp pretty much the same as all the other games.This is a move they have done,without question to garner more subs and perhaps steal away many bored WOW players.This is also a move i do not agree with,we already have a bazillion of these quest for xp related games out there,we needed another one ,like we need a hole in the head.
A common bond bewtween FFXI and FFXIV that most other games if not all do not follow ,is the ability to play ALL classes on the same player.This is once again soemthing the EQ's and QWow's have failed at miserably,this is one design i approve of.
I have touched on a but a few points,the FFXI and FFXIV have a ton of differences that make them unique from other games,but at the same time,they have made a few mistakes,so it is by no means a "messiah"it is just a game that is trying to be a tad different,while trying to appease the Eq/Wow crowd at the same time.IMO they would have been better to keep the FFXI design but tweak it for better grouping options,instead of taking the easy way out by allowing players to solo,this disturbes me that Square as smart as they are have taken this easy route instead of developing better grouping mechanics.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I have no idea where the OP heard rumours such as this ,certainly not from me and i like what Square Enix does for the most part,albeit they still make several mistakes.
FFXI was in no way a sort of eq1 clone,that is what makes the FF series so great,it is a clone of nothing,it is it's own design.There is not one single game on the MMORPG market that does quests like FFXI does,where by you do not gain xp rewards.There is no other game that does the sub class system properly,a few games have tried to copy it,but done horribly bad.
If anything FFXIV is actually NOTHING close to old school,it is much closer to copying/mimmicking the EQ's Wow's of the rpg world.It is a game that is going to put a huge emphasis on the GUILD and you will be doing guild quests to gain xp pretty much the same as all the other games.This is a move they have done,without question to garner more subs and perhaps steal away many bored WOW players.This is also a move i do not agree with,we already have a bazillion of these quest for xp related games out there,we needed another one ,like we need a hole in the head.
A common bond bewtween FFXI and FFXIV that most other games if not all do not follow ,is the ability to play ALL classes on the same player.This is once again soemthing the EQ's and QWow's have failed at miserably,this is one design i approve of.
I have touched on a but a few points,the FFXI and FFXIV have a ton of differences that make them unique from other games,but at the same time,they have made a few mistakes,so it is by no means a "messiah"it is just a game that is trying to be a tad different,while trying to appease the Eq/Wow crowd at the same time.IMO they would have been better to keep the FFXI design but tweak it for better grouping options,instead of taking the easy way out by allowing players to solo,this disturbes me that Square as smart as they are have taken this easy route instead of developing better grouping mechanics.
First off, I don't think there is enough info currently available on FFXIV yet to determine whether it will be the simple quest grinding that's prevalent on the market today.
Secondly, I don't understand what you mean when you accuse SE of "taking the easy way out." The larger mmo playerbase demands the ability to solo when they like, so SE is catering to the larger crowd. That seems smart to me. How do you know they aren't adding better grouping options in addition to that ability to solo?
@OP: The mentioned quote is just a big big hope of mine, nothing for granted. SE just has to make grouping, raiding even better and they'll get a good loyal playerbase coming from ex Everquest, FFXI and other oldschool games looking forward to a nice community and great deep MMORPG.
again just a hope of mine! If they're going the easy route and trying to please the "me now" crowd the game will fail, because you can't please both. SE's target audience should be the oldschool gamers other will quit soon with SWTOR and other ez-mode games beeing released.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
@OP: The mentioned quote is just a big big hope of mine, nothing for granted. SE just has to make grouping, raiding even better and they'll get a good loyal playerbase coming from ex Everquest, FFXI and other oldschool games looking forward to a nice community and great deep MMORPG.
again just a hope of mine! If they're going the easy route and trying to please the "me now" crowd the game will fail, because you can't please both. SE's target audience should be the oldschool gamers other will quit soon with SWTOR and other ez-mode games beeing released.
Personally, I think SE should continue to cater to the target audience they've already outlined: "Former FFXI players, general MMO fans, and FF fans that may never have played an MMO". In other words, the majority of players. Trying to cater to a specific niche player gets you a (small) niche community, much like what happened with FFXI.
They've said there will be elements in there that will make the FFXI vet crowd happy, but more than just that. It's true that you can't please players of both extremes but you can find a compromise that will please the rational majority, and that seems to be what FFXIV aims to do.
I don't think FFXIV will be oldschool, hardcore or anything like that, all I'm hoping to see is a game with a solid focus on grouping and player interaction to establish a strong community.
I'm aware that guild leves permit soloing but I'm also well aware of SquareEnix's ideals in the MMO setting and I'm quite sure they won't go the direction WoW did and make almost everything soloable; they understand how important the community is and too much soloing is a large potential nail in the community coffin.
I expect one of the reasons so many 'old school' gamers are looking forward to XIV is that, based on FFXI, it has a very good chance of reviving the sense of community that seems to have entirely died out in modern MMOs. The countless numbers of features and mechanics that encourage and force player interaction announced so far only serve to reinforce this belief.
I hear stuff like this everywhere, in the threads that pretty much turn into old school mmo vs new school thempark like mmo arguments, after a while its always brought up like "when FF14 comes out wel have something to play again". And i ask, why?, yeah, its going to be a lot like FF11 (which was pretty much an EQ1 clone), but from what has been revealed, it will be more casual friendly, there will be instances, and youl be able to solo more and wont necessarily have to group (with the whole guildleve settings), all things that are hated by the old school crowd from what i see (especially instances). So why are some people so sure that FF14 will bring back teh old glory days when for all we know itl just be another game thats trying to steal peoples from WoW?
People are just desperate for a modern well supported social PvE game that will allow them to group. They think/ hope this might be it. Why does that bother you so much?
Instances are not necessarily hated by the 'old school crowd', not if they are used right, and every game is trying to steal people from WoW.
I think your motivation behind the OP is obvious though... I guess this game must now be getting close enough to launch to gain random 'special' attention.
I don't think FFXIV will be oldschool, hardcore or anything like that, all I'm hoping to see is a game with a solid focus on grouping and player interaction to establish a strong community.
I'm aware that guild leves permit soloing but I'm also well aware of SquareEnix's ideals in the MMO setting and I'm quite sure they won't go the direction WoW did and make almost everything soloable; they understand how important the community is and too much soloing is a large potential nail in the community coffin.
I expect one of the reasons so many 'old school' gamers are looking forward to XIV is that, based on FFXI, it has a very good chance of reviving the sense of community that seems to have entirely died out in modern MMOs. The countless numbers of features and mechanics that encourage and force player interaction announced so far only serve to reinforce this belief.
I will bet you anything that FFXIV will play and feel like FFXI than WoW or any of the other "modern" mmos. It will be closer to the difficult you see in FFXI than WoW.
The definition of "casual" for SE is FAR FAR different than casual in a western mmo.
Though FFXIV will try to be its own game, remember, they started working on it 2 years AFTER FFXI came out. I think they were designing for FFXI until at some point, they decided to make it a new game rather than content additions. They probably said to themselves, "If we were to do FFXI all over again, what would we do different."
As such, a lot of the "stuff" that was supposed to be for FFXI, eventually became the foundation for FFXIV. In that regard, FFXIV is a sequel to FFXI no matter what anyone else says.
I have no doubt that whoever plays FFXIV and played FFXI will "feel" right at home, while the new changes will allow for the new commers to join in with a smooth learnign curve.
It's not going to be a wow killer, but it will be more of a success than FFXI and it will last for many many years. SE doesn't produce bad games with "Final Fantasy" in the title. It may not be a great game, but it won't be a bad game. Sorta like Tom Hanks of acting. He might not make a great film, but he rarily, if ever makes a horrible film.
I will bet you anything that FFXIV will play and feel like FFXI than WoW or any of the other "modern" mmos. It will be closer to the difficult you see in FFXI than WoW.
The definition of "casual" for SE is FAR FAR different than casual in a western mmo.
Though FFXIV will try to be its own game, remember, they started working on it 2 years AFTER FFXI came out. I think they were designing for FFXI until at some point, they decided to make it a new game rather than content additions. They probably said to themselves, "If we were to do FFXI all over again, what would we do different."
As such, a lot of the "stuff" that was supposed to be for FFXI, eventually became the foundation for FFXIV. In that regard, FFXIV is a sequel to FFXI no matter what anyone else says.
I have no doubt that whoever plays FFXIV and played FFXI will "feel" right at home, while the new changes will allow for the new commers to join in with a smooth learnign curve.
It's not going to be a wow killer, but it will be more of a success than FFXI and it will last for many many years. SE doesn't produce bad games with "Final Fantasy" in the title. It may not be a great game, but it won't be a bad game. Sorta like Tom Hanks of acting. He might not make a great film, but he rarily, if ever makes a horrible film.
My 2 cents.
I'd say if you played XI for the last 4-5 years your mind won't be blown by the changes in XIV, but if you only played for the first few years or not at all, lot of features presented will feel quite different.
I'm already seeing a lot of ideas used in XI present in XIV as well. It wouldn't be too far-fetched to say XI 2006-2010 was in some way a beta test for XIV and it's features. Not saying it's a bad thing, actually it's good that they can see potential flaws in XI before implementing them in XIV.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Comments
This game's primary audience is not the NA (North American) mmo market, therefore what the majority of the NA market currently demands from recent (post WoW) mmo's doesn't have the same weight in the direction of the development of FFXIV as it does most US based MMO's with few non US players.
I think that more than anything is a reason for "old school" players to put their hope in FFXIV. Basically less American influence all around (on the team, on the game, and in terms of actual players on servers).
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Good in theory but practically it doesn't work. There is a reason why EQ2 is being made more and more solo oriented except for end game dungeons, GW introduced heroes and henchies, LOTR made lower regions and book 1 completely soloable, Blizzard added dungeon tools for WOW... need more proofs?
EQ2 make old content more solo friendly because there simply aint the low lvl player base any longer, not that it makes a fun MMO, but is what theey aim for....making it easy to solo your way to top fast, since well ppl would just mainly quit n say they couldnt get anywhere as no groups to be found.
now to the ppl who dont understand why anyone would call FFXI a EQ1 clone, from my point of view who havent played either of them, they sound like the exact same experience, its almost 100% the same things ppl who talk about the games focus on, if you took out any description of combat,races, lore and the kind out I wouldnt be able to hear any diffrence at all....gameplay sounds like the same. how it is in practice may be diffrent....just doesnt sound like it
hm bit on topic, aint too certain they have made the lower lvls matter as much as would like it, but so far those guild leves is the the only thing they have said is solo so far. even starter mobs, a chocobo, is shown killed a small group...that do indicate that it is a group orientated game, but those things can change during alpha/beta.
I think the games gonna blow.
Moving away from the group oriented nature of FFXI is stupid imo.
then again Im biased since i played FFXI and you know us old players we hate change.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
FFXI is just as group oriented right now as FFXIV promises to be.
And as far as I know, XI is a much better game because of it now.
That's strange... what I have read is that most FFXI players want to be able to solo while waiting on a group instead of sitting in town...
I've also read that group play gives you the best rewards and solo play just gives you a mediocre outcome, so you'll need to group in order do much gear wise.
This is what I have seen too.
I find statements like this kind of amusing, because this difference you describe pretty much comes down to the individual player's attitude and approach toward the game more so than mechanics (unless you're talking specifically about the use of instancing in newer games). Even in a game like WoW you can choose to avoid quests entirely and just explore until you find that special corner in which to grind away to your heart's content.
On topic: I don't believe FFXIV is going to be "old school" - SE has always tried to do something new with every entry to the final fantasy series, and FFXI was no exception. Those calling FFXI an EQ clone don't know what they are talking about. I've already seen plenty of self-proclaimed "hardcore old school" players dictate that they basically want FFXIV to clone FFXI. I don't think I have to explain why that would make no sense for SE to do.
FFXIV will try something we haven't seen before - whether it will work out for the better or worse remains to be seen.
Umm, ya, not sure what you are talking about. You could very easily not do a single quest in EQ other than your epic 1.0 line until you started access quests for dungeons. There were quests to be done, but quests were NEVER the way people leveled. Hell, you could not level by quests alone in EQ even if you wanted to. And while most of them were quite crappy, they were far from complex.
The issue isnt whether quests are present, its whether quests are the primary vehicle for leveling. Most people see quest driven games as modern and lacking challenge, as well as social interaction. While a game could be designed otherwise, generally a quest driven game will always favor/reward soloing and dumbed down combat and strategy. That is what some people are concerned about: FFXIV being a online rpg rather than a mmorpg. And with the way SWTOR is looking, we dont really need another game in that category.
Edit: "I find statements like this kind of amusing, because this difference you describe pretty much comes down to the individual player's attitude and approach toward the game more so than mechanics (unless you're talking specifically about the use of instancing in newer games). Even in a game like WoW you can choose to avoid quests entirely and just explore until you find that special corner in which to grind away to your heart's content."
You could, but there is no point because the game is coded to reward questing, not grinding. While someone may want to explore and grind, they are not going to go the considerably slower route. If WoW rewarded grouping, grinding, pure-mob leveling, etc. just as much as questing, then your statement would be true.
It might be, from a PVE perpective, but I'm still looking for the DAOC successor which I'm sure XIV won't be.
Still, games with strong group mechanics are rare and if they stay true to what made XI good they should fare well.
(No, it won't be a WOW killer)
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm just going to put this out there now.
I'm one of the people that consider this game to be my messiah for mmo's. Now that said I don't really know if you all want to put that into the old school or new school category or not so I'll give me reasons and let you all decide which it would be.
First reason - Ever since the WoW release there hasn't been anything really note worthy for being good (At least not for me). I've picked up all the big hype games and played them for at least the first month before tossing them aside (even some small hype games as well), and some have been fairly successful such as LOTRO, but for me none of these games have brought that same feeling of greatness that FFXI did (FFXI was my first mmo). Also they are just so solo friendly that it's almost better to get a 360 and sit on xbox live talking to people on my friends list and playing a single player game.
Second - I've always been a Squaresoft / SE fan. I like the RPG genre and I like how Square has always put something new in their games.
Third - I hate running around with 12 year olds ( in some cases even 7-8 y/o) and having to be their parent almost because theirs are never around for them and the majority are so immature to the point that I want to take a belt to them for at least a good hour. This is a main reason for me because I started playing at a young age, I had just turned 14 when FFXI hit shelves in october, and I was never this bad (I'm 21 now). I feel I can say this because I very rarely end up playing with a group of people near my age, in fact a lot are 40+ with the occasional couple in their 30's.
Those are my main reasons. This is really the last game I'm even looking into and it has been that way since it was first hinted at. If this ends up being a total flop I'm just going to go back to playing FPS games again.
You have apparently not played WoW during Wotlk, because my statement is true. Especially since the advent of the cross server lfg system, people have been skipping the quest content in favor of grinding through mobs in instances (because it's arguably the fastest way, especially with a group of friends). Even before the tool was released, some of the players that attained server-first achievements for reaching the next level cap of 80 did so purely through mob grinding in the open world.
Sure, most people wanted to quest toward the beginning because they wanted to see the lore and what new interesting quests blizzard put in - but after taking the first alt or so through that same content, people looked for efficient alternatives and found them.
Why are some people so sure that FFxiv is the messiah of teh old school? Because hope dies last? People that like heavy grouping, want a game like that and hope this will be it, even if it has some solo friendly elements. Hope they get what they are looking for, the more game variety the better.
I have no idea where the OP heard rumours such as this ,certainly not from me and i like what Square Enix does for the most part,albeit they still make several mistakes.
FFXI was in no way a sort of eq1 clone,that is what makes the FF series so great,it is a clone of nothing,it is it's own design.There is not one single game on the MMORPG market that does quests like FFXI does,where by you do not gain xp rewards.There is no other game that does the sub class system properly,a few games have tried to copy it,but done horribly bad.
If anything FFXIV is actually NOTHING close to old school,it is much closer to copying/mimmicking the EQ's Wow's of the rpg world.It is a game that is going to put a huge emphasis on the GUILD and you will be doing guild quests to gain xp pretty much the same as all the other games.This is a move they have done,without question to garner more subs and perhaps steal away many bored WOW players.This is also a move i do not agree with,we already have a bazillion of these quest for xp related games out there,we needed another one ,like we need a hole in the head.
A common bond bewtween FFXI and FFXIV that most other games if not all do not follow ,is the ability to play ALL classes on the same player.This is once again soemthing the EQ's and QWow's have failed at miserably,this is one design i approve of.
I have touched on a but a few points,the FFXI and FFXIV have a ton of differences that make them unique from other games,but at the same time,they have made a few mistakes,so it is by no means a "messiah"it is just a game that is trying to be a tad different,while trying to appease the Eq/Wow crowd at the same time.IMO they would have been better to keep the FFXI design but tweak it for better grouping options,instead of taking the easy way out by allowing players to solo,this disturbes me that Square as smart as they are have taken this easy route instead of developing better grouping mechanics.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
First off, I don't think there is enough info currently available on FFXIV yet to determine whether it will be the simple quest grinding that's prevalent on the market today.
Secondly, I don't understand what you mean when you accuse SE of "taking the easy way out." The larger mmo playerbase demands the ability to solo when they like, so SE is catering to the larger crowd. That seems smart to me. How do you know they aren't adding better grouping options in addition to that ability to solo?
@OP: The mentioned quote is just a big big hope of mine, nothing for granted. SE just has to make grouping, raiding even better and they'll get a good loyal playerbase coming from ex Everquest, FFXI and other oldschool games looking forward to a nice community and great deep MMORPG.
again just a hope of mine! If they're going the easy route and trying to please the "me now" crowd the game will fail, because you can't please both. SE's target audience should be the oldschool gamers other will quit soon with SWTOR and other ez-mode games beeing released.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Personally, I think SE should continue to cater to the target audience they've already outlined: "Former FFXI players, general MMO fans, and FF fans that may never have played an MMO". In other words, the majority of players. Trying to cater to a specific niche player gets you a (small) niche community, much like what happened with FFXI.
They've said there will be elements in there that will make the FFXI vet crowd happy, but more than just that. It's true that you can't please players of both extremes but you can find a compromise that will please the rational majority, and that seems to be what FFXIV aims to do.
I don't think FFXIV will be oldschool, hardcore or anything like that, all I'm hoping to see is a game with a solid focus on grouping and player interaction to establish a strong community.
I'm aware that guild leves permit soloing but I'm also well aware of SquareEnix's ideals in the MMO setting and I'm quite sure they won't go the direction WoW did and make almost everything soloable; they understand how important the community is and too much soloing is a large potential nail in the community coffin.
I expect one of the reasons so many 'old school' gamers are looking forward to XIV is that, based on FFXI, it has a very good chance of reviving the sense of community that seems to have entirely died out in modern MMOs. The countless numbers of features and mechanics that encourage and force player interaction announced so far only serve to reinforce this belief.
People are just desperate for a modern well supported social PvE game that will allow them to group. They think/ hope this might be it. Why does that bother you so much?
Instances are not necessarily hated by the 'old school crowd', not if they are used right, and every game is trying to steal people from WoW.
I think your motivation behind the OP is obvious though... I guess this game must now be getting close enough to launch to gain random 'special' attention.
^ This is what I was trying to say.
I will bet you anything that FFXIV will play and feel like FFXI than WoW or any of the other "modern" mmos. It will be closer to the difficult you see in FFXI than WoW.
The definition of "casual" for SE is FAR FAR different than casual in a western mmo.
Though FFXIV will try to be its own game, remember, they started working on it 2 years AFTER FFXI came out. I think they were designing for FFXI until at some point, they decided to make it a new game rather than content additions. They probably said to themselves, "If we were to do FFXI all over again, what would we do different."
As such, a lot of the "stuff" that was supposed to be for FFXI, eventually became the foundation for FFXIV. In that regard, FFXIV is a sequel to FFXI no matter what anyone else says.
I have no doubt that whoever plays FFXIV and played FFXI will "feel" right at home, while the new changes will allow for the new commers to join in with a smooth learnign curve.
It's not going to be a wow killer, but it will be more of a success than FFXI and it will last for many many years. SE doesn't produce bad games with "Final Fantasy" in the title. It may not be a great game, but it won't be a bad game. Sorta like Tom Hanks of acting. He might not make a great film, but he rarily, if ever makes a horrible film.
My 2 cents.
I'd say if you played XI for the last 4-5 years your mind won't be blown by the changes in XIV, but if you only played for the first few years or not at all, lot of features presented will feel quite different.
I'm already seeing a lot of ideas used in XI present in XIV as well. It wouldn't be too far-fetched to say XI 2006-2010 was in some way a beta test for XIV and it's features. Not saying it's a bad thing, actually it's good that they can see potential flaws in XI before implementing them in XIV.
FF8 is my favorite... lol (i'm not joking)
That's the thing. SE doesn't release bad games, but everyone has their own opinion as to which game is good and which is bad.
That doesn't mean they're not quality products however.