Originally posted by brutalGORE Originally posted by uquipu WoW has both group content and solo content. You can solo all of the tutorial levels 1-79. You can solo the end game content. If you want to gear up, grouping is forced in WoW. This is a good compromise, IMO. I like doing dungeons with groups, but if I log on at odd hours, I want to have something to do.
Wait.....tutorial levels 1-79??? Aren't there only 80 lvls in the game? So what your saying is that 99% of the game is tutorial. I can find groups at pretty much anytime during the day. Like said earlier FF11 thrives and is group focused,.
I made a typo, you 'can't' solo end game content. If you walk into a heroic or raid instance alone, you're in for an arse whoopin.
WoW has both group content and solo content. You can solo all of the tutorial levels 1-79.
You can solo the end game content. If you want to gear up, grouping is forced in WoW.
This is a good compromise, IMO. I like doing dungeons with groups, but if I log on at odd hours, I want to have something to do.
Wait.....tutorial levels 1-79??? Aren't there only 80 lvls in the game? So what your saying is that 99% of the game is tutorial. I can find groups at pretty much anytime during the day. Like said earlier FF11 thrives and is group focused,.
I made a typo, you 'can't' solo end game content. If you walk into a heroic or raid instance alone, you're in for an arse whoopin.
I'm not even talking end game content...but the fact that you can solo that high in the first place.....thats not a balance...if you can solo even 95% of the game where teh purpose in grouping....if you can make it to 80 by yourself whats the point in being in a group in teh first place?
Ryzom is a MMO with pretty much a dead population. Its heavily group focused. It does not work, because most of the people are in the higher end of the game...and the game has such a low pop, even the trial isle is hard to find groups in.
See the problem? In a heavy group focused MMO, its great at release when everyone can easily find groups...in the long run, it does not work. The people either move on to the higher end content, so newbies have a hard time grouping and therefor a very hard time doing anything in-game. Or the population dies out so much, no one can find a group...and that does not work either.
I don't like easy mode solo either, like in WoW its IQ dropping easy. But a forced/heavy group focused MMO doesn't work either.
I disagree. I think with Ryzom it was more a graphics and art style issue. Yes, yes, I know, graphics aren't everything, but one only has to look at human culture to see that humans naturally gravitate to things that are pleasing to the eye. It is what it is. Ryzom has alot, and I mean ALOT of the features I like in an MMO but if I can't look at the game for 5 minutes...well, I can't play it.
People got along just fine in group based games like EQ just fine and are still doing so today. There just hasn't been a developer in this modern era to make a solid group based game that looks middle of the road good or better. This is the era of the solo-player themepark. Hopefully we are seeing the end of that monopoly with a couple of AAA games coming up.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I actually still think Ryzom has amazing graphics, but maybe thats just me
So far up to this point I've been against heavy group MMOs. But I've been reading up on FFXI, and one good thing that comes out of it that I've seen so far
In a solo focused MMO, you feel like a god pretty much...mowing down everything the game sends at you. (not counting raids or PvP)
While in FFXI, an entire group or even more than an entire group is sometimes needed to take down an AI. I love this, because in games, I don't want to feel like a god, I just want to feel like an average person in the game world and live an alternate life so to speak (I have physical problems in real life, so I spend much of my time indoors). This offers a really good challenge as well.
I don't really like WoW's approach to soloing the entire levels (it takes soloing way too far). But at the same time, sometimes I don't want to group with someone or someones, but still want to talk or trade or build a city or do whatever in a MMO that you can't do in a singleplayer game. And then sometimes I don't want to be around anyone and then I do have a choice of a singleplayer game. But sometimes I just want a MMO that is constantly changing, but don't want to group with people but still talk or interact with people in someway, and that doesn't mean I need to group with them to interact with them.
Ryzom is a MMO with pretty much a dead population. Its heavily group focused. It does not work, because most of the people are in the higher end of the game...and the game has such a low pop, even the trial isle is hard to find groups in.
See the problem? In a heavy group focused MMO, its great at release when everyone can easily find groups...in the long run, it does not work. The people either move on to the higher end content, so newbies have a hard time grouping and therefor a very hard time doing anything in-game. Or the population dies out so much, no one can find a group...and that does not work either.
I don't like easy mode solo either, like in WoW its IQ dropping easy. But a forced/heavy group focused MMO doesn't work either.
That is absolutely the most disingenuous and ridiculous argument against grouping I've ever read.
You pick a MMO with one of the lowest populations out there... ignore the others with far healthier populations... then use it as the measuring stick to determine an entire playstyle "doesn't work".
Wow. Just, wow.
And... incidentally... people *do* group in Ryzom. They group up for outpost battles, they group up for xp'ing... they group up for events... they group up for harvesting.... They group up for a number of things. Perhaps you didn't get to experience any of that, but it does definitely happen.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Originally posted by brutalGORE Originally posted by uquipu
Originally posted by brutalGORE
Originally posted by uquipu WoW has both group content and solo content. You can solo all of the tutorial levels 1-79. You can solo the end game content. If you want to gear up, grouping is forced in WoW. This is a good compromise, IMO. I like doing dungeons with groups, but if I log on at odd hours, I want to have something to do.
Wait.....tutorial levels 1-79??? Aren't there only 80 lvls in the game? So what your saying is that 99% of the game is tutorial. I can find groups at pretty much anytime during the day. Like said earlier FF11 thrives and is group focused,.
I made a typo, you 'can't' solo end game content. If you walk into a heroic or raid instance alone, you're in for an arse whoopin. I'm not even talking end game content...but the fact that you can solo that high in the first place.....thats not a balance...if you can solo even 95% of the game where teh purpose in grouping....if you can make it to 80 by yourself whats the point in being in a group in teh first place?
Why do people group in WoW during the tutorial levels? 1-79? Cause it's fun, imo. Running instances you also have a chance for some decent loot, and you'll get lots of experience from the group level quests. But fun would be the main reason.
But if you don't want to group you can solo. You can't solo the dungeons, at least not at your level, but you'd solo quests.
to be fair it does cause a game to die out or lose interest if you have to wait so long to just get a group to play a game. FFXI has died out a lot because of it and also numerous people left because of it. (I prefer FFXI and to me it was worth waiting) however I agree in the long run it can ruin games. Hence why FFXI has tried to focus more attention to solo play for those to pass the time while they wait for a group.
I really think FFXI should not be used as an example of why grouping doesn't work.
FFXI is still holding strong after 8 years. At that point, any MMO is losing a portion of its population.
~500k players for at least a solid 7 years. They only just *now* did their first server merge, which still leaves them with 24 - double, or more, the available servers as some new MMOs that *do* support more soloing. Despite its age, despite its group-centric gameplay, despite its obtuse interface and lack of hand-holding, FFXI is still going stronger than many newer, shinier, easier, and more "solo-friendly" MMOs around half as long.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You don't have to buy the game that "forces" grouping.
There's the ultimate freedom for you.
You are not forced to buy the game. You are not forced to play a game with grouping.
If you choose to play such game, it is by your own choice.
well, I always see people (or often I do) complaining about too much solo in MMOs on these forums...same can be said to them
I haven't heard of anyone saying "forced solo".
yeah, thats because they still have the option to group if they want. Unlike forced grouping (like FFXI) where there is no soloing if you don't feel like grouping with someone.
Actually.. there is now, in FFXI.
People are doing it a lot, thanks to Fields of Valor. Incidentally, in my experience, the community's gone downhill a bit since they implemented it.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
A game should have some solo content but the fact is all the games since WoW the optimal way and the way the games are DESIGNED TO BE PLAYED is to solo level up by yourself. The quest are not designed for groups and in fact penalize you in most cases for doing them as a group. That is the bitch you are seeing here from all of us who prefer to see more group content not less.
The solo to max way these games are now all designed to be played has completely killed early player base community development and in turn I believe is one of the major reason people have such an easy time just walking away from these games.
I remember being co-leader of a player city, after 3 months the city became huge and really active. That was awesome. Never played a MMO where I was able to help someone or even start it myself and just build somewhere in the wilderness and then people all migrate to it and build there too. Now that is an AWESOME "group" feature.
Spot on! That is why I play Fallen earth in hope to have that kind of player driven settlments in the wild. To bad it wont happen becuse now the devs seems to focus on some awsome "pvp feature"....
I think MMOs today should be implementing systems that caters to both solo and group play to suit all. People have different preferences of play styles. Me personally i enjoy both, and sometimes solo play is needed in my tight sceduel. Grouping is fun, and having people working together as a team to accomplish a goal is a great thing but not everyone enjoys it. People shouldn't be forced to work with others. Forcing is a very, off-putting thing, and how developers of these games don't think about that as they are creating these systems is something. To make a very sucessful game you have to cater to more than one audience. . and well, if you're goal isn't to cater to a wide audience, don't expect to gain a wide audience. Why is WoW sucessful? Can't you guess?
I think MMOs today should be implementing systems that caters to both solo and group play to suit all. People have different preferences of play styles. Me personally i enjoy both, and sometimes solo play is needed in my tight sceduel. Grouping is fun, and having people working together as a team to accomplish a goal is a great thing but not everyone enjoys it. People shouldn't be forced to work with others. Forcing is a very, off-putting thing, and how developers of these games don't think about that as they are creating these systems is something. To make a very sucessful game you have to cater to more than one audience. . and well, if you're goal isn't to cater to a wide audience, don't expect to gain a wide audience. Why is WoW sucessful? Can't you guess?
I think most of us here agree that being forced to do anything is not fun. I'm still curious why the OP is worried about forced grouping when only one game we've seen mentioned in this thread so far comes close to forcing anyone to group. Most games today punish you for grouping.
Ryzom is a MMO with pretty much a dead population. Its heavily group focused. It does not work, because most of the people are in the higher end of the game...and the game has such a low pop, even the trial isle is hard to find groups in.
See the problem? In a heavy group focused MMO, its great at release when everyone can easily find groups...in the long run, it does not work. The people either move on to the higher end content, so newbies have a hard time grouping and therefor a very hard time doing anything in-game. Or the population dies out so much, no one can find a group...and that does not work either.
I don't like easy mode solo either, like in WoW its IQ dropping easy. But a forced/heavy group focused MMO doesn't work either.
Forced/heavy grouping may well have failed in this particular game but it does not mean that forced/heavy grouping is doomed to failure in every other game. Stating that the failure of Ryzom is THE reason why ALL games that have a heavy emphasis on grouping will fail is quite simply an extreme failure at a logical argument. Sorry but your post is utterly pointless and serves no purpose whatseoever.
I think most of us here agree that being forced to do anything is not fun. I'm still curious why the OP is worried about forced grouping when only one game we've seen mentioned in this thread so far comes close to forcing anyone to group. Most games today punish you for grouping.
Not correct. Most games actually gives more to those who groups, even though majority would like it different. Even WoW.
I think most of us here agree that being forced to do anything is not fun. I'm still curious why the OP is worried about forced grouping when only one game we've seen mentioned in this thread so far comes close to forcing anyone to group. Most games today punish you for grouping.
Not correct. Most games actually gives more to those who groups, even though majority would like it different. Even WoW.
I'd say WoW has a lot more content specifically for the soloer than it does strictly for groupers. Using the wowhead.com numbers WoW has 8192 quests, but only 336 (4%) of them are group quests.
A matchmaking system resolves this issue. Say you have multiple servers, and all content that requires 3 or more players will matchmake players from different servers. This keeps the solo and group content alive while reducing or eliminating the wait time. With that system it's easy to level up and join the end game while still fully experiencing the content. Alternatively you could have "one" server with multiple instances, but players don't seem to like this idea (e.g. aoc and sto).
Perhaps a bit more refined would be the availablity of joining an instance yet not a requirement. So say you have an open world quest that requires five players. You'll always have that open world opportunity to join with those in your group on your server and affect the mobs in that seamless environment, but you could click some sort of marker that would allow you to join an instanced version if there are not enough players around you on your server.
However, this solution should not be implemented except in lower level areas where there's a clear gap in population. For example, if most people are level 80, than levels 1-70 content can use the instance system.
I think most of us here agree that being forced to do anything is not fun. I'm still curious why the OP is worried about forced grouping when only one game we've seen mentioned in this thread so far comes close to forcing anyone to group. Most games today punish you for grouping.
Not correct. Most games actually gives more to those who groups, even though majority would like it different. Even WoW.
I'd say WoW has a lot more content specifically for the soloer than it does strictly for groupers. Using the wowhead.com numbers WoW has 8192 quests, but only 336 (4%) of them are group quests.
Not the issue here. Sigh. Do I really need to repeat what JthX said or can you please read it again? I am not interested in how much this or that content WoW has. Bleh.
I think most of us here agree that being forced to do anything is not fun. I'm still curious why the OP is worried about forced grouping when only one game we've seen mentioned in this thread so far comes close to forcing anyone to group. Most games today punish you for grouping.
Not correct. Most games actually gives more to those who groups, even though majority would like it different. Even WoW.
I'd say WoW has a lot more content specifically for the soloer than it does strictly for groupers. Using the wowhead.com numbers WoW has 8192 quests, but only 336 (4%) of them are group quests.
Not the issue here. Sigh. Do I really need to repeat what JthX said or can you please read it again? I am not interested in how much this or that content WoW has. Bleh.
I have a theory that many player's opinions on this matter is derived from the first MMO they played. A lot of people have fond memories of their first MMO and wish to recreate that feeling. If your first MMO was Everquest or FFXI, you are probably much more inclined to want more group based progression. However, if your first MMO was WoW or most MMOs that have come out since, you are probably going to want more solo based progression.
In addition to nostalgia, I think that those that have been "brought up" on solo based progression were probably soured by grouping in their games. When soloing is so accessible and grouping gives very little or no advantage over it, most players will solo. When it comes around time to actually grouping for those relatively rare group quests, people really don't know how to play their classes in a group setting. (In an old man's voice) Back when I was your age and playing Everquest, most people knew how to play their class in a group. Those that didn't were known and had a harder time getting groups.
Personally, I am hoping for a new quality game to come around that is similar to FFXI and grouping is highly encouraged. This game would definitely be a niche game, and would likely have to be made by an independent studio. Unfortunately I am also at a point in my life that I probably would not have time to actually play said game.
I can definitely see the point of view of both sides. All I can really say is that it is a good thing that there are so many games out there. Everybody should be able to find the game that fits their style of play.
I disagree with you about Ryzom. I think that it is very possible for you to find groups upon leaving the training island. Honestly, it is better to go solo through the island because you get stronger that way. I did it that way and really enjoyed it. Then again, I also met up with a solid group of about five players that helped me beat the final bosses. The game is designed to be more challenging solo, but not impossible. Then, I joined a guild (which was easy) on the mainland and have been in huge groups ever since.
Originally posted by Gerahben I have a theory that many player's opinions on this matter is derived from the first MMO they played. A lot of people have fond memories of their first MMO and wish to recreate that feeling. If your first MMO was Everquest or FFXI, you are probably much more inclined to want more group based progression. However, if your first MMO was WoW or most MMOs that have come out since, you are probably going to want more solo based progression.
WoW has forced grouping.
WoW doesn't start until level 80. You can't solo heroic instances or solo raids.
If you want the good gear, the only way you can get it is to group.
Even if you go the arena route, you need a group to do arenas
I have a theory that many player's opinions on this matter is derived from the first MMO they played. A lot of people have fond memories of their first MMO and wish to recreate that feeling. If your first MMO was Everquest or FFXI, you are probably much more inclined to want more group based progression. However, if your first MMO was WoW or most MMOs that have come out since, you are probably going to want more solo based progression.
WoW has forced grouping.
WoW doesn't start until level 80. You can't solo heroic instances or solo raids.
If you want the good gear, the only way you can get it is to group.
Even if you go the arena route, you need a group to do arenas
So because the game offers solo content, group content, and raid content that means you are forced to do all of those? WoW gives stat bonuses for crafting and harvesting so does that mean its forced harvesting and forced crafting? How about the hunter quest in WoW? Forced soloing since I cant take a group in with me
Just because a game offers alternate means of game play does not mean you are forced to do those.
Comments
I made a typo, you 'can't' solo end game content. If you walk into a heroic or raid instance alone, you're in for an arse whoopin.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
I'm not even talking end game content...but the fact that you can solo that high in the first place.....thats not a balance...if you can solo even 95% of the game where teh purpose in grouping....if you can make it to 80 by yourself whats the point in being in a group in teh first place?
I disagree. I think with Ryzom it was more a graphics and art style issue. Yes, yes, I know, graphics aren't everything, but one only has to look at human culture to see that humans naturally gravitate to things that are pleasing to the eye. It is what it is. Ryzom has alot, and I mean ALOT of the features I like in an MMO but if I can't look at the game for 5 minutes...well, I can't play it.
People got along just fine in group based games like EQ just fine and are still doing so today. There just hasn't been a developer in this modern era to make a solid group based game that looks middle of the road good or better. This is the era of the solo-player themepark. Hopefully we are seeing the end of that monopoly with a couple of AAA games coming up.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I actually still think Ryzom has amazing graphics, but maybe thats just me
So far up to this point I've been against heavy group MMOs. But I've been reading up on FFXI, and one good thing that comes out of it that I've seen so far
In a solo focused MMO, you feel like a god pretty much...mowing down everything the game sends at you. (not counting raids or PvP)
While in FFXI, an entire group or even more than an entire group is sometimes needed to take down an AI. I love this, because in games, I don't want to feel like a god, I just want to feel like an average person in the game world and live an alternate life so to speak (I have physical problems in real life, so I spend much of my time indoors). This offers a really good challenge as well.
I don't really like WoW's approach to soloing the entire levels (it takes soloing way too far). But at the same time, sometimes I don't want to group with someone or someones, but still want to talk or trade or build a city or do whatever in a MMO that you can't do in a singleplayer game. And then sometimes I don't want to be around anyone and then I do have a choice of a singleplayer game. But sometimes I just want a MMO that is constantly changing, but don't want to group with people but still talk or interact with people in someway, and that doesn't mean I need to group with them to interact with them.
That is absolutely the most disingenuous and ridiculous argument against grouping I've ever read.
You pick a MMO with one of the lowest populations out there... ignore the others with far healthier populations... then use it as the measuring stick to determine an entire playstyle "doesn't work".
Wow. Just, wow.
And... incidentally... people *do* group in Ryzom. They group up for outpost battles, they group up for xp'ing... they group up for events... they group up for harvesting.... They group up for a number of things. Perhaps you didn't get to experience any of that, but it does definitely happen.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Wait.....tutorial levels 1-79??? Aren't there only 80 lvls in the game? So what your saying is that 99% of the game is tutorial. I can find groups at pretty much anytime during the day. Like said earlier FF11 thrives and is group focused,.
I made a typo, you 'can't' solo end game content. If you walk into a heroic or raid instance alone, you're in for an arse whoopin.
I'm not even talking end game content...but the fact that you can solo that high in the first place.....thats not a balance...if you can solo even 95% of the game where teh purpose in grouping....if you can make it to 80 by yourself whats the point in being in a group in teh first place?
Why do people group in WoW during the tutorial levels? 1-79? Cause it's fun, imo. Running instances you also have a chance for some decent loot, and you'll get lots of experience from the group level quests. But fun would be the main reason.
But if you don't want to group you can solo. You can't solo the dungeons, at least not at your level, but you'd solo quests.
People have even gone from 1-79 grinding mobs.
How do you want to play the game?
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
I really think FFXI should not be used as an example of why grouping doesn't work.
FFXI is still holding strong after 8 years. At that point, any MMO is losing a portion of its population.
~500k players for at least a solid 7 years. They only just *now* did their first server merge, which still leaves them with 24 - double, or more, the available servers as some new MMOs that *do* support more soloing. Despite its age, despite its group-centric gameplay, despite its obtuse interface and lack of hand-holding, FFXI is still going stronger than many newer, shinier, easier, and more "solo-friendly" MMOs around half as long.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Actually.. there is now, in FFXI.
People are doing it a lot, thanks to Fields of Valor. Incidentally, in my experience, the community's gone downhill a bit since they implemented it.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
A game should have some solo content but the fact is all the games since WoW the optimal way and the way the games are DESIGNED TO BE PLAYED is to solo level up by yourself. The quest are not designed for groups and in fact penalize you in most cases for doing them as a group. That is the bitch you are seeing here from all of us who prefer to see more group content not less.
The solo to max way these games are now all designed to be played has completely killed early player base community development and in turn I believe is one of the major reason people have such an easy time just walking away from these games.
Spot on! That is why I play Fallen earth in hope to have that kind of player driven settlments in the wild. To bad it wont happen becuse now the devs seems to focus on some awsome "pvp feature"....
I7@4ghz, 5970@ 1 ghz/5ghz, water cooled||Former setups Byggblogg||Byggblogg 2|| Msi Wind u100
This.
FFXI has had a steady 500,000 players for around 7 years now. It's ALL group.
Perhaps they just don't work with your younger generation of gamers?
Outdated topic; it has been discussed and understood that 'forced grouping' doesnt work. Forced grouping is soooo outdated.
The era of the soloers have just begun.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
I think MMOs today should be implementing systems that caters to both solo and group play to suit all. People have different preferences of play styles. Me personally i enjoy both, and sometimes solo play is needed in my tight sceduel. Grouping is fun, and having people working together as a team to accomplish a goal is a great thing but not everyone enjoys it. People shouldn't be forced to work with others. Forcing is a very, off-putting thing, and how developers of these games don't think about that as they are creating these systems is something. To make a very sucessful game you have to cater to more than one audience. . and well, if you're goal isn't to cater to a wide audience, don't expect to gain a wide audience. Why is WoW sucessful? Can't you guess?
It is no guessing; WOW is so successful because it is the game that has most to offer for the soloer of all games.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
I think most of us here agree that being forced to do anything is not fun. I'm still curious why the OP is worried about forced grouping when only one game we've seen mentioned in this thread so far comes close to forcing anyone to group. Most games today punish you for grouping.
Forced/heavy grouping may well have failed in this particular game but it does not mean that forced/heavy grouping is doomed to failure in every other game. Stating that the failure of Ryzom is THE reason why ALL games that have a heavy emphasis on grouping will fail is quite simply an extreme failure at a logical argument. Sorry but your post is utterly pointless and serves no purpose whatseoever.
Not correct. Most games actually gives more to those who groups, even though majority would like it different. Even WoW.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
I'd say WoW has a lot more content specifically for the soloer than it does strictly for groupers. Using the wowhead.com numbers WoW has 8192 quests, but only 336 (4%) of them are group quests.
A matchmaking system resolves this issue. Say you have multiple servers, and all content that requires 3 or more players will matchmake players from different servers. This keeps the solo and group content alive while reducing or eliminating the wait time. With that system it's easy to level up and join the end game while still fully experiencing the content. Alternatively you could have "one" server with multiple instances, but players don't seem to like this idea (e.g. aoc and sto).
Perhaps a bit more refined would be the availablity of joining an instance yet not a requirement. So say you have an open world quest that requires five players. You'll always have that open world opportunity to join with those in your group on your server and affect the mobs in that seamless environment, but you could click some sort of marker that would allow you to join an instanced version if there are not enough players around you on your server.
However, this solution should not be implemented except in lower level areas where there's a clear gap in population. For example, if most people are level 80, than levels 1-70 content can use the instance system.
Not the issue here. Sigh. Do I really need to repeat what JthX said or can you please read it again? I am not interested in how much this or that content WoW has. Bleh.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Then why mention it?
I have a theory that many player's opinions on this matter is derived from the first MMO they played. A lot of people have fond memories of their first MMO and wish to recreate that feeling. If your first MMO was Everquest or FFXI, you are probably much more inclined to want more group based progression. However, if your first MMO was WoW or most MMOs that have come out since, you are probably going to want more solo based progression.
In addition to nostalgia, I think that those that have been "brought up" on solo based progression were probably soured by grouping in their games. When soloing is so accessible and grouping gives very little or no advantage over it, most players will solo. When it comes around time to actually grouping for those relatively rare group quests, people really don't know how to play their classes in a group setting. (In an old man's voice) Back when I was your age and playing Everquest, most people knew how to play their class in a group. Those that didn't were known and had a harder time getting groups.
Personally, I am hoping for a new quality game to come around that is similar to FFXI and grouping is highly encouraged. This game would definitely be a niche game, and would likely have to be made by an independent studio. Unfortunately I am also at a point in my life that I probably would not have time to actually play said game.
I can definitely see the point of view of both sides. All I can really say is that it is a good thing that there are so many games out there. Everybody should be able to find the game that fits their style of play.
-Gerahben
I disagree with you about Ryzom. I think that it is very possible for you to find groups upon leaving the training island. Honestly, it is better to go solo through the island because you get stronger that way. I did it that way and really enjoyed it. Then again, I also met up with a solid group of about five players that helped me beat the final bosses. The game is designed to be more challenging solo, but not impossible. Then, I joined a guild (which was easy) on the mainland and have been in huge groups ever since.
www.ryzom.com
WoW has forced grouping.
WoW doesn't start until level 80. You can't solo heroic instances or solo raids.
If you want the good gear, the only way you can get it is to group.
Even if you go the arena route, you need a group to do arenas
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
So because the game offers solo content, group content, and raid content that means you are forced to do all of those? WoW gives stat bonuses for crafting and harvesting so does that mean its forced harvesting and forced crafting? How about the hunter quest in WoW? Forced soloing since I cant take a group in with me
Just because a game offers alternate means of game play does not mean you are forced to do those.