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The major 3 under NDA... but what will become of them?

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  • Jairoe03Jairoe03 Member Posts: 732


    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    I don't really agree with your statement. Of course they could be more different too, but XIV is ending up doing some pretty bold things which have not yet been tried in the industry.
    I understand that most companies tend to to do what's been tried and proven to boost chance of success, but I don't think SE should be considered such company.
    They have a track record of trying very unorthodox concepts in the past, which makes them such a hit-or-miss company. I don't see XIV being any different case.
    But seriously, if I didn't know any better than I do, I would agree with you. And I don't think what I say will be able to convince you either, which is understandable. You'll see for yourself when the time comes.

    Oh, I'm excited about these 3 games as much as the next guy. I already figured I'm going to have to put Guild Wars 2 up against FFXIV, both with their own unique set of features not inherent in some other games. I was mainly pointing at the core of each of these and still seeing them using the same core concepts, just improving and adding to it though.

    However, I can see myself really enjoying Earthrise (obviously if done properly with quality) and Secret World (which still contains very little info on it suprisingly for the amount of PR having been posted). I just wanted to see why were these 3 so singled out?

  • Lizard_SFLizard_SF Member Posts: 348

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    What i need is a grade an MMMO that gives me a new fresh MMO experience.  That gets me excited to play again and discover their world.

     

    You can't lose your viriginity twice. (I realize that for many readers of MMORPG.com, I am speaking metaphorically)

    This doesn't mean you can never enjoy playing MMORPGs again. What you need to do is stop looking for that Ohmygoshwowthisissocooool feeling, because you'll never, ever, get it back, and instead look for other things to appreciate. Pay attention to zone design, balance, mechanics, quests and lore. See how well (or how poorly) the game introduces you to mechanics, guides you to appropriate content, hides or doesn't hide the "man behind the curtain".

    It's the difference between hot wild kinky sex with someone you just met, and a long term relationship. (Again I realize that, for many of you, this is a purely metaphorical statement.) The immediate passion and thrill fades, but there's still a lot more to discover and enjoy.

    Of the games you mentioned, the only one I'm interested in at all is KOTOR, and based on the very limited hard information we have (which I know is preliminary and hype driven and not to be taken too seriously), it seems they're making several key mistakes. One is showing all sorts of amazing flashy moves, which implies a high degree of control over your character. However, based on everything I know about MMORPGs, there is pretty much a 99% chance that no matter how many times your Jedi leaps, spins, and slashes, what YOU do is push a button. Once. Complex animation triggers look great in screen shots, but are not especially engaging in actual play. They also hype "choices" like "when to throw a grenade", as if this is an amazing innovation. Ever had to deal with any MMORPG that has high-power moves on long timeouts? Yeah. Not so innovative. (A true innovation would be deeply tactical risk/reward play where you manage scarce resources, but this is the exact opposite of button-mashing action.) The last thing they do is undermine the "multiplayer" aspect of the game, saying it's "not heroic" to have huge boss fights. This may be true, but if the only reason other players are there is to admire your gear, what's the point? Forced grouping is bad because it often makes it impossible to play *at all* if you're on at the wrong time, or the wrong server, or the wrong build, or whatever, but a lack of any reason to group cuts the "MP" out of "MMORPG".

    Bioware has a solid rep and makes good products, so they may well surprise me, and a lot of what they're saying now is driven by what marketing's most recent survey said people want to hear. With a year or so to go, a lot can change, but the preliminary vibe is disquieting. They need 3 million players, they claim, to break even, and I don't think "WoW with a Star Wars skin" is going to cut it. I'd rather just play WoW, which has had years of debugging and refinement, if that's the gameplay I'm in the mood for.

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357

    Well, depends on what is your definition of "core concept". 

     

    Secret World is still years off, and is not going to be released "soon" or within the same timespan as these 3 games. Earthrise just doesn't have what it takes to compete fairly, mainly because the budget is lacking compared to the rest.

    The company making it matters too. Square-Enix, Bioware, NCSoft... all big players in the industry. There's less faith for smaller companies, and I could say that it's for a reason. Lack of experience, if nothing else.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • Jairoe03Jairoe03 Member Posts: 732


    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Well, depends on what is your definition of "core concept". 
     
    Secret World is still years off, and is not going to be released "soon" or within the same timespan as these 3 games. Earthrise just doesn't have what it takes to compete fairly, mainly because the budget is lacking compared to the rest.
    The company making it matters too. Square-Enix, Bioware, NCSoft... all big players in the industry. There's less faith for smaller companies, and I could say that it's for a reason. Lack of experience, if nothing else.

    Budget does not a great game make. It's implementation and I believe Earthrise has been baking in the oven for quite some time. Sure, budget allows the time for developers to put together a project, but its doesn't guarantee its going to be good. It just means they can afford more people and time on their project. There are many other factors outside of money that goes into something of an art like video games.

    Again, its almost more reason to believe that these major companies aren't going to do anything that grand or spectacular because they are tried and proven and they generally stick to the formula. Just like movies, just like books and any other media you can think of. Rarely, something coming out of left field comes out AND becomes successful, but those come from under-the-radar more likely than the play-it-safe type companies/places that are already int he spotlight

  • Lizard_SFLizard_SF Member Posts: 348

    Originally posted by Jairoe03

    Again, its almost more reason to believe that these major companies aren't going to do anything that grand or spectacular because they are tried and proven and they generally stick to the formula. Just like movies, just like books and any other media you can think of. Rarely, something coming out of left field comes out AND becomes successful, but those come from under-the-radar more likely than the play-it-safe type companies/places that are already int he spotlight

    This is true; the "next big thing" is very likely to come from someplace no one is looking. No one spends 150-300 million dollars on an edgy gamble. The flip side of this is that a large company can afford to make a "better X". WoW succeeded not due to any originality, but because it was a "better EQ than EQ". It took the parts of EQ people found fun (killing monsters, finding loot) and cut out the parts they found frustrating (naked corpse runs, 72 hour spawn camps), and made it run on low-end hardware. A small company couldn't have done that.

    Pretty much the only way KOTOR will get its 3 million necessary customers is to do to WoW what WoW did to EQ, and I don't see that happening. I could be wrong.

    Quite honestly (and I hear the screams from the outraged hardcores now), I think the "next big thing" in MMOs is going to evolve out of Facebook-type games. As it becomes more and more possible to put deeper content into Flash/Browsers, you're going to see something which marries the casual log in/log off and highly asynchronous Facebook play style with a questing/level up MMO. I'm not sure what it will look like, because if I had a solid design model, I'd be shopping for investors, but I'm sure we'll recognize it when we see it and go "D'oh! Why didn't I think of that!"

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357

    Originally posted by Jairoe03

    Budget does not a great game make. It's implementation and I believe Earthrise has been baking in the oven for quite some time. Sure, budget allows the time for developers to put together a project, but its doesn't guarantee its going to be good. It just means they can afford more people and time on their project. There are many other factors outside of money that goes into something of an art like video games.

    Again, its almost more reason to believe that these major companies aren't going to do anything that grand or spectacular because they are tried and proven and they generally stick to the formula. Just like movies, just like books and any other media you can think of. Rarely, something coming out of left field comes out AND becomes successful, but those come from under-the-radar more likely than the play-it-safe type companies/places that are already int he spotlight

    Budget doesn't make a great game- and neither does lack of budget. Out of these two options, it's still apparent which one is more likely to succeed. 

    But yes, there are other factors to be considered- and most of all, experience. Something that Masthead studios don't unfortunately have.

    What you describe isn't really how it works when it comes to MMO's. The biggest play-it-safe company is so far the most successful one, even. 

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • Jairoe03Jairoe03 Member Posts: 732


    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Budget doesn't make a great game- and neither does lack of budget. Out of these two options, it's still apparent which one is more likely to succeed. 
    But yes, there are other factors to be considered- and most of all, experience. Something that Masthead studios don't unfortunately have.
    What you describe isn't really how it works when it comes to MMO's. The biggest play-it-safe company is so far the most successful one, even. 


    However, what has WoW done that was truly innovative in the first place? There is nothing that we can cite out of this game and say, "they came up with that". No, they took what works, whats great and what caters to more people and they did it well. They wait for other companies to make the gambles on innovation and when they see something they like or see that other people like, they say "Hey, we can do this better". They are known for polish and quality, but with anything new or crazy, they are not in there. I bet you none of us can attribute 1 major feature in the game that has truly made the game. WoW is so successful because of the whole package and its quality, nothing new and nothing fancy.

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