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Why Isn't This Game Huge?

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  • RocketeerRocketeer Member UncommonPosts: 1,303

    Originally posted by zeowyrm

    absolutely agree on the idea of it.  Pretty much all I did for the first month or so after SoM hit was play skirmishes.  But once I got my helper tweaked to where I wanted, I ran out of things to spend marks on.  IMO the rewards overall aren't worth it though, and fun can only get you by for so long.

    I think thats intended, atleast according to this post it is, here a quote:

    Just a few comments on the Rewards talk that has come up:



    The gear rewards are largely targeted at players below level cap. The hope is that as a player levels from 30-65, they will mix Skirmishes into their play experience. From time to time, they will use SM to upgrade an item slot that has been stagnant for one reason or another. Players who are hardcore crafters and/or parts of larger kinships will be less likely to need these upgrades, as well as players who aggressively do instance content. This is as intended. Skirmishes are supposed to be an addition to the mix, not something to overshadow existing playstyles.



    That said, the design focus of the rewards shifts at the level cap. Here, we sell various LI components, crafting materials and a set of just under raid quality armour. Again, this is to target players of a variety of play styles. Take some time to browse the Crafting and Legendary Item vendors, as well as the 65+ pages on the armour vendors.



    In addition to all that, there are the odds and ends in the Curiosities vendor. Reputation items and old class quest items are just the beginning.



    Lastly, expect the "tier" of the rewards at endgame to drift upwards as new updates are launched. As 2nd age LI's become easier to acquire, perhaps 2nd age LI's will appear in Skirmishes... As new tiers of Raid gear become available, Skirmishes will likely receive an upgrade as well. Our current intention is to keep the rewards fresh and relevant, but not overly eclipsing other playstyles.



    Remember, there is only one constant in MMO's: Change

     

    Imho it makes sense. If you could get the equivalent to high quality crafting or raid gear that would a be a pretty heavy blow to either. The way it currently is you use the skirmish system while leveling for items, at maxlevel for crafting stuff and cosmetics. I  think thats a nice balance, after all its less exclusive than crafting or raids, and a open ended system.

  • Larry2298Larry2298 Member Posts: 865

    Originally posted by Vhaln

    I'm not saying it was a failure or anything, but it just seems like it could have been - maybe could still be - a much bigger success than it is.  I've been trying MMO after MMO, and after three years away, I'm giving LOTRO a second look.  This game has so much more to it than most other MMOs.  Certainly more than WoW.  Plus, it's possibly the biggest IP a dev could even hope for.

    I know it has its flaws, but I'm wondering which really accounts for the lack of mass appeal.  Is it simply poor advertising?  They advertise a lot, but is it too low key?  Maybe they need to push more new content that gives the impression of it being more developmentally alive, not just a fading MMO no one wants to waste resources on?  Or maybe the weak first impression it makes during character creation?  Maybe they should focus on adding more detail and customization to character appearance? 

    I'm thinking it's something very basic like that.  Not the sort of details players only notice after getting serious about the game.

     In my opinion, I think Lotro already reached its best and it's a successful game. Although the subscribers slips but it didnt change Lotro is a good game. Unlike the other super-hyped game on the market created a very good fortune, Turbine still won their credit and the other super-hyped game company lose theirs. The company bought Turbine not because Turbine is losing money. Turbine is a private company, I believe they all make a good fortune.

    Myself already getting tired of such genre atm, I'd playing a online game like Mafia 2 with more violence bloody game.

  • zeowyrmzeowyrm Member Posts: 746

    Originally posted by Rocketeer

    Originally posted by zeowyrm

    absolutely agree on the idea of it.  Pretty much all I did for the first month or so after SoM hit was play skirmishes.  But once I got my helper tweaked to where I wanted, I ran out of things to spend marks on.  IMO the rewards overall aren't worth it though, and fun can only get you by for so long.

    I think thats intended, atleast according to this post it is, here a quote:

    Just a few comments on the Rewards talk that has come up:



    The gear rewards are largely targeted at players below level cap. The hope is that as a player levels from 30-65, they will mix Skirmishes into their play experience. From time to time, they will use SM to upgrade an item slot that has been stagnant for one reason or another. Players who are hardcore crafters and/or parts of larger kinships will be less likely to need these upgrades, as well as players who aggressively do instance content. This is as intended. Skirmishes are supposed to be an addition to the mix, not something to overshadow existing playstyles.



    That said, the design focus of the rewards shifts at the level cap. Here, we sell various LI components, crafting materials and a set of just under raid quality armour. Again, this is to target players of a variety of play styles. Take some time to browse the Crafting and Legendary Item vendors, as well as the 65+ pages on the armour vendors.



    In addition to all that, there are the odds and ends in the Curiosities vendor. Reputation items and old class quest items are just the beginning.



    Lastly, expect the "tier" of the rewards at endgame to drift upwards as new updates are launched. As 2nd age LI's become easier to acquire, perhaps 2nd age LI's will appear in Skirmishes... As new tiers of Raid gear become available, Skirmishes will likely receive an upgrade as well. Our current intention is to keep the rewards fresh and relevant, but not overly eclipsing other playstyles.



    Remember, there is only one constant in MMO's: Change

     

    Imho it makes sense. If you could get the equivalent to high quality crafting or raid gear that would a be a pretty heavy blow to either. The way it currently is you use the skirmish system while leveling for items, at maxlevel for crafting stuff and cosmetics. I  think thats a nice balance, after all its less exclusive than crafting or raids, and a open ended system.

    I suppose that's great for new players.  But I don't want to level yet another char to experience the best that skirmishes have to offer.  with 4 max level chars the last thing I want to do is run through the content, yet again.

  • NovaKayneNovaKayne Member Posts: 743

    Because everyone in the game is either a hobit or elf.  they are characteristically small.  :/

    Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

    Why? Because people expected LOTR and got a WoW clone. Seriously, I have seen the movies and read the books and I can tell you that this game feels nothing like Tolkiens complex and indepth world.

    It is simple, instanced, linear and has limited PvP. Kinda like... WoW.

  • VhalnVhaln Member Posts: 3,159

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Why? Because people expected LOTR and got a WoW clone. Seriously, I have seen the movies and read the books and I can tell you that this game feels nothing like Tolkiens complex and indepth world.

    It is simple, instanced, linear and has limited PvP. Kinda like... WoW.

     

    Seems like every MMO is, at best, a pale shadow of whatever its supposed to be.  Even if it's based on another game, but a single-player game, it'll be some bare-bones stripped down piece of crap, compared to the original.  It'll lack all sorts of things that made the original great, but at least you can play it with other people.  

     

    I don't know why the genre is like this.  Something to do with countless compromises on every level of MMO development, maybe.  In any case, just seems to me that LOTRO comes a lot closer to feeling like a quality product than most other MMOs out there.  

     

    Certainly, they could have taken more risks and tried for a more epic world, to feel more like Tolkeins works, but as far as WoW clones go, LOTRO is one of the best.  Better than WoW itself, IMHO.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

    Originally posted by Vhaln

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Why? Because people expected LOTR and got a WoW clone. Seriously, I have seen the movies and read the books and I can tell you that this game feels nothing like Tolkiens complex and indepth world.

    It is simple, instanced, linear and has limited PvP. Kinda like... WoW.

     

    Seems like every MMO is, at best, a pale shadow of whatever its supposed to be.  Even if it's based on another game, but a single-player game, it'll be some bare-bones stripped down piece of crap, compared to the original.  It'll lack all sorts of things that made the original great, but at least you can play it with other people.  

     

    I don't know why the genre is like this.  Something to do with countless compromises on every level of MMO development, maybe.  In any case, just seems to me that LOTRO comes a lot closer to feeling like a quality product than most other MMOs out there.  

     

    Certainly, they could have taken more risks and tried for a more epic world, to feel more like Tolkeins works, but as far as WoW clones go, LOTRO is one of the best.  Better than WoW itself, IMHO.

    Basic problem of capitalism. It does not matter if it is good but what matters is if it sells and more importantly if it sells more than it costs (i.e. if it is profitable). Sometimes what sells is also what is good but sometimes, most of the times, a compromise needs to be made so that a product is profitable.

    I have no doubt that LOTRO is profitable but a true representation, not even remotely so, of Tolkiens work it is not. The movies were pretty close but this game is faaaaaaar shot from the feeling that the books give. They have incredible depth and even create new languages where as this game is a simplistic, casual game that a child can master.

    But it could be worse, atleast this game is not as terrible as STO.

  • jrs77jrs77 Member Posts: 419

    LOTRO has the same problem as the most of the MMOs. After you've played through the content, you've nothing left to do, besides waiting for the next addition of content to play through.

    Endgame-content in scripted form like dungeons is boring as hell, and PvP is aswell boring, if there's nothing really to fight for.

    What MMOs need is playerdriven content to keep the players playing and interested, but it's a very rare seen feature.

    DAoC is still being played by a good amount of people, because of the fighting for the relics and castle-raids for example.

  • RocketeerRocketeer Member UncommonPosts: 1,303

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by Vhaln


    Originally posted by Yamota

    Why? Because people expected LOTR and got a WoW clone. Seriously, I have seen the movies and read the books and I can tell you that this game feels nothing like Tolkiens complex and indepth world.

    It is simple, instanced, linear and has limited PvP. Kinda like... WoW.

     

    Seems like every MMO is, at best, a pale shadow of whatever its supposed to be.  Even if it's based on another game, but a single-player game, it'll be some bare-bones stripped down piece of crap, compared to the original.  It'll lack all sorts of things that made the original great, but at least you can play it with other people.  

     

    I don't know why the genre is like this.  Something to do with countless compromises on every level of MMO development, maybe.  In any case, just seems to me that LOTRO comes a lot closer to feeling like a quality product than most other MMOs out there.  

     

    Certainly, they could have taken more risks and tried for a more epic world, to feel more like Tolkeins works, but as far as WoW clones go, LOTRO is one of the best.  Better than WoW itself, IMHO.

    Basic problem of capitalism. It does not matter if it is good but what matters is if it sells and more importantly if it sells more than it costs (i.e. if it is profitable). Sometimes what sells is also what is good but sometimes, most of the times, a compromise needs to be made so that a product is profitable.

    I have no doubt that LOTRO is profitable but a true representation, not even remotely so, of Tolkiens work it is not. The movies were pretty close but this game is faaaaaaar shot from the feeling that the books give. They have incredible depth and even create new languages where as this game is a simplistic, casual game that a child can master.

    But it could be worse, atleast this game is not as terrible as STO.

    You dont honestly think the moviesare close to the books do you? They cut out so much cool stuff, atleast turbine put enough attention to the lore to put in all the characters from the books ... Also people confuse basing something on the lore, and trying to retell the same story. Ofc the game is nothing like the books, the books are about a little hobbit and his friends saving the world from evil. The game is about some unnamed guy(you) running around doing stuff while said story happens around you.

    Its a completely different perspective, you get related from the frontseat of the story where everything revolves around you, to being just a minor gear in the whole thing.

     

    Besides thats what i like about LoTRO. It feels less freaky, its a world full of NORMAL people(well as far as hobbits, elfs and dwarfs can be normal ...), with comprehensible problems and tasks for you. The storyline and lame excuses in wow for the resparking conflict between horde and alliance for example seem childish compared to that, the plot could have been taken out of some comics i read as a child. How can that Wrynn lead a nation when he is so stupid and thoughless that he makes G.W. Bush look good besides him? And Thrall goes right along, yeah sure. Maybe their behavior makes sense to a 6 yo child, but not for an adult sorry. Not to mention the gameworld being literred with crazy gnome/goblin engineers, drunk dwarfs, evil undead hordes, wersomethings etc. Everything seems totally out of proportion and the trouble people have are either totally unreal or shouldnt be something you bother a hero with which according to some other questlines the player apparently is.

     

    WoW has some great storylines pre-BC. Van Cleef and the defias, the taurens plight with the vulture co, saving the barrens or all the various interesting zones all with a unique story behind them. Then with BC and WoTLK it goes all downhill, they are always reaching for new extremes to a point where immersion goes right out of the window. Besides the guys supposed to lead you are total fruitcakes. Inept fruitcakes. With issues.

     

    Sorry for the rant, but what makes LoTRO special for me is that its less extreme. Im tired of being some superhero guy going around saving the world twice a week and riding around on my magical flying unicorn doing stuff for no other reason than getting gold or gear. Maybe its just me growing older, but wow seems to become more childish instead of less as it progresses, and i dont care how many people think its the best thing since sliced bread, i still shake my head at whatever passes as storywriters at blizzard.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,931

    Originally posted by Rocketeer. Im tired of being some superhero guy going around saving the world twice a week and riding around on my magical flying unicorn doing stuff for no other reason than getting gold or gear. Maybe its just me growing older, but wow seems to become more childish instead of less as it progresses, and i dont care how many people think its the best thing since sliced bread, i still shake my head at whatever passes as storywriters at blizzard.

    I'll give you that.

    Every time I see a person state "why play lotro when wow does it better" I stare at my screen in disbelief.

    I can say that there is a lot going for wow, like it or hate it. Strong support, die hard community, a lot to do in game for everyone, easy to master, etc.

    But in the end I play LOTRO. I play it for the world, the story and that it is not so extreme so that I look at the screen wondering what I'm doing.

    Now, I do take everything in context. If I sign into an asian game I'm signing into swords the size of your body (or larger) extreme armor and and larger than life design.

    but for a regular fantasy world, LOTRO feels better for me. I can buy into it that much more for it's "realism".

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  • faxnadufaxnadu Member UncommonPosts: 940

    Originally posted by Vhaln

    I'm not saying it was a failure or anything, but it just seems like it could have been - maybe could still be - a much bigger success than it is.  I've been trying MMO after MMO, and after three years away, I'm giving LOTRO a second look.  This game has so much more to it than most other MMOs.  Certainly more than WoW.  Plus, it's possibly the biggest IP a dev could even hope for.

    I know it has its flaws, but I'm wondering which really accounts for the lack of mass appeal.  Is it simply poor advertising?  They advertise a lot, but is it too low key?  Maybe they need to push more new content that gives the impression of it being more developmentally alive, not just a fading MMO no one wants to waste resources on?  Or maybe the weak first impression it makes during character creation?  Maybe they should focus on adding more detail and customization to character appearance? 

    I'm thinking it's something very basic like that.  Not the sort of details players only notice after getting serious about the game.

    character customization more deph and option to players start playing either " good " or " bad " means you roll human or hobbit or you roll orc or goblin etc. and the story should have been written on both sides. 

    thats what i think would have made the game major success.

     

    cheers

  • RocketeerRocketeer Member UncommonPosts: 1,303

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Rocketeer. Im tired of being some superhero guy going around saving the world twice a week and riding around on my magical flying unicorn doing stuff for no other reason than getting gold or gear. Maybe its just me growing older, but wow seems to become more childish instead of less as it progresses, and i dont care how many people think its the best thing since sliced bread, i still shake my head at whatever passes as storywriters at blizzard.

    I'll give you that.

    Every time I see a person state "why play lotro when wow does it better" I stare at my screen in disbelief.

    I can say that there is a lot going for wow, like it or hate it. Strong support, die hard community, a lot to do in game for everyone, easy to master, etc.

    But in the end I play LOTRO. I play it for the world, the story and that it is not so extreme so that I look at the screen wondering what I'm doing.

    Now, I do take everything in context. If I sign into an asian game I'm signing into swords the size of your body (or larger) extreme armor and and larger than life design.

    but for a regular fantasy world, LOTRO feels better for me. I can buy into it that much more for it's "realism".

    I think you put what i thought into words better then me. I want to play a fantasy game, and WoW doesnt feel like a Fantasy game anymore. Its some cross between steampunk and superhero game thats about the protagonist(the player) completing absolutly superhuman feats. I feel totally disconnected from my char when im chasing some huge robotic tank boss around with a catapult ... Thats not the kind of sword and board, magic and rpg kind of game im looking for. There are machines in WoW far more advanced that what we have in the 21 century, nothing wrong with sci-fi, but i like to keep the genres apart.

  • avalon1000avalon1000 Member UncommonPosts: 791

    Originally posted by Terranah

    I'll tell you why I'm not playing.

     

    1) After endgame I got bored.  I don't like raids and the pvp wasn't very interesting to me.  Only thing after that is to grind rep or titles which was boring.

     

    2) While the world of LOTRO is beautiful, the characters are not.  This is purely subjective but I found them very homely looking.  Additionally, I didn't care for the animations that much, which seemed kind of wooden or artificial.

     

    3) I got tired of fighting something every five feet.  Sometimes I want to explore and take in the land.  I might go back to a much lower level area and just sight see, take screenshots, etc.  But in LOTRO it just seemed like every few feet I was fighting something, and the fights started to feel very repetetive and annoying.  Eventually getting agro ever few feet I just got worn down and decided to play something else.

    1. The game is getting stale.  I hope the Warner buyout brings faster updates and more landmass (and maybe some innovation)  Also, I think with Rohan we will see some new PvMP area (just a hunch).

    2. Agreed...why is it the Koreans can make such nice character animations and U.S. companies do not?  Maybe Turbine/Warner needs to hire some Korean CG people to re-design the characters.

    3. This is simply not true.  You can navigate through areas without getting attacked. Granted if you are a level 15 in a level 30 area you are gonna aggro things a mile around you, but if you are anywhere near level it should not be a problem.    

    In two to three years we will be able to play these mmo's on our cell phones which will be very interesting.   The mobile phone market is the future of computing and the phone will become your computer too.  Phones will output to large screen via HDMI and you will be able to use bluetooth keyboards and mice (although I still prefer a trackball).  Further down the road are mobile phones with fold out/roll out screens. and voice commands (my Droid already does great voice to text translation) If the world lasts that long.....

  • ProfanityJCProfanityJC Member Posts: 32

    I played this game in the open beta and at launch. Played for about 6months total. The game had a very smooth launch, graphics were amazing, community started off really nice.

    I saw that a previous poster said the game got stale. It did. Very quickly in fact, and the raid content at the time if you could call it that was absolutely pathetic.

    Combat was strangely laggy, and after playing wow this game felt extremely sluggish.

    Gold farmers were also a major issue and there was actually a gold farmers guild on my server!! Vilya, the guild was called Polaris. I remember it very well because all of us hated them so much. The entire guild eventually got banned.

    Whie the Moria and Mirkwood expansions looked somewhat interesting, I just couldnt bring myself to start my account again.

  • KruulKruul Member UncommonPosts: 482

    If I was all about the PVE I would go back to this game in a heartbeat. I played the Moria expansion and did every raid it had to offer as I did with WoTLK and rate Moria a better expansion.

    What did me in was the lack of good PVP. I want to play an Orc from level 1-60 and  have more than 1 medium sized zone for PVP. The monster play just doesnt do it for me.

  • AirwrenAirwren Member UncommonPosts: 648

    Originally posted by ProfanityJC

    I played this game in the open beta and at launch. Played for about 6months total. The game had a very smooth launch, graphics were amazing, community started off really nice.

    I saw that a previous poster said the game got stale. It did. Very quickly in fact, and the raid content at the time if you could call it that was absolutely pathetic.

    Combat was strangely laggy, and after playing wow this game felt extremely sluggish.

    Gold farmers were also a major issue and there was actually a gold farmers guild on my server!! Vilya, the guild was called Polaris. I remember it very well because all of us hated them so much. The entire guild eventually got banned.

    Whie the Moria and Mirkwood expansions looked somewhat interesting, I just couldnt bring myself to start my account again.

     I actually had almost an identical experience to yours when the game launched.  At the time I wanted to play something other than WoW and this was the newest toy on the market.  In the end when the game launched it just wasn't different enough and the lore didn't hold me.  However, I haven't played WoW since I hit 80 on my druid not long after WoTLK came out and I honestly don't intend to play it again.  The game is just boring for me now so I decided to give LoTRO another go and get more into the RP and lore of the game.  So far I can say they have greatly improved the game from what I remember.  Performance is better, new classes to play, and I'm more engrossed in the actual quest story lines.  All of that to say this...

    I, like others who have posted in this thread, would contend that the main reason LoTRO didn't do better and continues to not grow in subscription numbers is the complete lack of an opposing faction.  I know I generally prefer to play the "bad guys" in games and there are some who don't want to be forced into the good guy role.  Had Turbine been able to successfully convince the Tolkien estate to allow people to root for the forces of Mordor and for them to have 2 factions and PvP the way other games do, I think LoTRO would have been a huge success.  In the end though, as others have said, you do get a sense that you're really not competing against anyone in the game.  We're all moving in the same direction.  If they ever allow us to play the "bad guys" in this game as a separate faction and for there to be battle zones along the front lines of the conflict the game would be 10X better.  Can you imagine getting to fight in an open pvp area like Rohan or Gondor as the forces of Sauron and Sauruman tried to overwhelm middle earth?  OMG the idea just gave me nerdgasm

  • RocketeerRocketeer Member UncommonPosts: 1,303

    Originally posted by Airwren

    Originally posted by ProfanityJC

    I played this game in the open beta and at launch. Played for about 6months total. The game had a very smooth launch, graphics were amazing, community started off really nice.

    I saw that a previous poster said the game got stale. It did. Very quickly in fact, and the raid content at the time if you could call it that was absolutely pathetic.

    Combat was strangely laggy, and after playing wow this game felt extremely sluggish.

    Gold farmers were also a major issue and there was actually a gold farmers guild on my server!! Vilya, the guild was called Polaris. I remember it very well because all of us hated them so much. The entire guild eventually got banned.

    Whie the Moria and Mirkwood expansions looked somewhat interesting, I just couldnt bring myself to start my account again.

     I actually had almost an identical experience to yours when the game launched.  At the time I wanted to play something other than WoW and this was the newest toy on the market.  In the end when the game launched it just wasn't different enough and the lore didn't hold me.  However, I haven't played WoW since I hit 80 on my druid not long after WoTLK came out and I honestly don't intend to play it again.  The game is just boring for me now so I decided to give LoTRO another go and get more into the RP and lore of the game.  So far I can say they have greatly improved the game from what I remember.  Performance is better, new classes to play, and I'm more engrossed in the actual quest story lines.  All of that to say this...

    I, like others who have posted in this thread, would contend that the main reason LoTRO didn't do better and continues to not grow in subscription numbers is the complete lack of an opposing faction.  I know I generally prefer to play the "bad guys" in games and there are some who don't want to be forced into the good guy role.  Had Turbine been able to successfully convince the Tolkien estate to allow people to root for the forces of Mordor and for them to have 2 factions and PvP the way other games do, I think LoTRO would have been a huge success.  In the end though, as others have said, you do get a sense that you're really not competing against anyone in the game.  We're all moving in the same direction.  If they ever allow us to play the "bad guys" in this game as a separate faction and for there to be battle zones along the front lines of the conflict the game would be 10X better.  Can you imagine getting to fight in an open pvp area like Rohan or Gondor as the forces of Sauron and Sauruman tried to overwhelm middle earth?  OMG the idea just gave me nerdgasm

    Simply doesnt work. What is the premier MMO for competitive playerdriven PvP with objectives affecting the gameworld? DAOC. What is the latest fail of said PvP? Warhammer. Why is that? Because you need three factions for meaningful consquences in pvp, otherwise one side eventually dominates the other and ruins their gameplay. Even Aion requires a third NPC controlled faction. And how well meaningless PvP sells we just got demonstrated with STO, people really adore that '/sarcasm off'.

  • gurthgorgurthgor Member Posts: 279

    Simply their buy now page doesnt work and have fails in the credit card service when try to buy it. They seem not care much to get new ppl.

    Blade with whom i have lived, blade with whom I now die. Serve right and justice one last time. Seek one last heart of evil. Still one last life of pain. Cut well old friend. Then farewell!

  • pencilrickpencilrick Member Posts: 1,550

    Pencil Rick's scorecard for successful MMO's (successful like WOW):

     

    1.  Runs well on mediocre systems  MISS

    2.  Highly optimized code, so runs very smoothly, animations are very fluid, responsive, and positive  MISS

    3.  Simple class structure and game mechanics  PASS

    4.  Enough player freedom and choice so players do not feel forced or frustrated or like they are "playing on rails"  MISS

  • AirwrenAirwren Member UncommonPosts: 648

    Originally posted by Rocketeer

    Originally posted by Airwren

    Originally posted by ProfanityJC

    I played this game in the open beta and at launch. Played for about 6months total. The game had a very smooth launch, graphics were amazing, community started off really nice.

    I saw that a previous poster said the game got stale. It did. Very quickly in fact, and the raid content at the time if you could call it that was absolutely pathetic.

    Combat was strangely laggy, and after playing wow this game felt extremely sluggish.

    Gold farmers were also a major issue and there was actually a gold farmers guild on my server!! Vilya, the guild was called Polaris. I remember it very well because all of us hated them so much. The entire guild eventually got banned.

    Whie the Moria and Mirkwood expansions looked somewhat interesting, I just couldnt bring myself to start my account again.

     I actually had almost an identical experience to yours when the game launched.  At the time I wanted to play something other than WoW and this was the newest toy on the market.  In the end when the game launched it just wasn't different enough and the lore didn't hold me.  However, I haven't played WoW since I hit 80 on my druid not long after WoTLK came out and I honestly don't intend to play it again.  The game is just boring for me now so I decided to give LoTRO another go and get more into the RP and lore of the game.  So far I can say they have greatly improved the game from what I remember.  Performance is better, new classes to play, and I'm more engrossed in the actual quest story lines.  All of that to say this...

    I, like others who have posted in this thread, would contend that the main reason LoTRO didn't do better and continues to not grow in subscription numbers is the complete lack of an opposing faction.  I know I generally prefer to play the "bad guys" in games and there are some who don't want to be forced into the good guy role.  Had Turbine been able to successfully convince the Tolkien estate to allow people to root for the forces of Mordor and for them to have 2 factions and PvP the way other games do, I think LoTRO would have been a huge success.  In the end though, as others have said, you do get a sense that you're really not competing against anyone in the game.  We're all moving in the same direction.  If they ever allow us to play the "bad guys" in this game as a separate faction and for there to be battle zones along the front lines of the conflict the game would be 10X better.  Can you imagine getting to fight in an open pvp area like Rohan or Gondor as the forces of Sauron and Sauruman tried to overwhelm middle earth?  OMG the idea just gave me nerdgasm

    Simply doesnt work. What is the premier MMO for competitive playerdriven PvP with objectives affecting the gameworld? DAOC. What is the latest fail of said PvP? Warhammer. Why is that? Because you need three factions for meaningful consquences in pvp, otherwise one side eventually dominates the other and ruins their gameplay. Even Aion requires a third NPC controlled faction. And how well meaningless PvP sells we just got demonstrated with STO, people really adore that '/sarcasm off'.

     You're definitely right about needing a 3rd faction for things like realm pvp and open world pvp so my idea of having an open area like Rohan or Gondor for open pvp wouldn't really work so well.  However, that doesn't really eliminate the point that the lack of ability to play the forces of darkness like you can the forces of good hurts the game.  I know there will be gnashing of teeth for the comparison but in my head I'm thinking about WoW and the ability to have a character on either side of that conflict.  Open world pvp wouldn't work so much but they could open things up to more than just the Ettenmoors and allow for pvp between the 2 sides. 

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,606

    Originally posted by Zilverrug

    Originally posted by Ethian

    Three words: Lack of PVP

     

    LOTRO always felt too safe to me although its a fun PVE game if you enjoying doing nothing but questing when your ingame. IMO the world of Middle Earth needs open world PVP so Turbine failed as far as I'm conserned. I'm sure PVEers love the game though.

    If you want to get rid of (estimated) 90% of the existing subscribers you should certainly do that.

    EVE Online isn't a PVE game - LotRO isn't a PVP game. It's good to be really good at one thing. There is room for good, PVE- or  PVP-specialized games like LotRO and EVE.

    There are games that are quite decent at both - that is good for a starter game - it lets people experience what they like and what they don't.

    /agree

    I also don't get where people are claiming LotRO is losing subs.  There is no evidence of this.  Firefoot is as crowded as I've ever seen it on any given day(even at mid-level areas), and the only other indicator, Xfire, for what it's worth(certainly worth more than the unfounded assertions of people on this board) has had it floating at 25-30 on the charts for at least a year.

    I've been playing it a little over a year, and have found it VERY replayable.  I maxed a Hunter, and am now levelling a Champ, Warden, and Runie, and they all play so vastly different I have to relearn them every time I switch and there are plenty of different quests for more than 1 toon.

    Now, why isn't it HUGE?  Good question.  I'd say it still remains that the "trialing" levels are the least interesting in the game.  There's also a bit of a learning curve when it comes to how the stats work, and thus, traits, deeds and virtues seem like a waste of time at first.  Each trait/deed/virtue seems pretty trivial; their effectiveness doesn't come clear until you've leveled them all, you have several slots, and can see how each one stacks with the other to make certain skills much more potent.

    Also, I think many non mmo'ers who saw the movies but didn't read the books are dissappointed when they enter LotRO and see dancing and merriment, and hobbits' breakfasts as pots, etc.  No Ranger class?  No Wizard?  WTH???  The rest of us know that if they were there, class spread would be 50% Wizards, 40% Rangers, and 10% Burglars.  Few would consider other classes.  "I'm Ear-O-Corn the Ranger!  Die halfling!!!"

    Those of you who say the movies were more accurate seem to have forgotten about the silliness of Tom Bombadil and merry songs being sung about 3 times per chapter... all the food talk, etc... anybody remember how the scene in the Prancing Pony REALLY went down?  The Balrog in Moria?  The chatty, friendly encounter with Faromir?

    The movies, IMO, rightfully excluded most of that and went darker.  But LotRO is much more in tune with the books than the movies were.  Particularly if you want a more Middle Earth feel and less a LoTR feel.  Bree isn't just a scary bar with a stable to hide in.  It's an ENTIRE town where Manfolk live DAY and night.  Life is mostly cheerful, save for the occasional gang of bandits. 

    THAT is Middle Earth.  What ISN'T Middle Earth is a group of PC Orcs ripping through town cutting down noobs.  By Lore, most Breefolk have no CLUE as what to an orc is.

     

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,606

    Originally posted by Airwren

     

     You're definitely right about needing a 3rd faction for things like realm pvp and open world pvp so my idea of having an open area like Rohan or Gondor for open pvp wouldn't really work so well.  However, that doesn't really eliminate the point that the lack of ability to play the forces of darkness like you can the forces of good hurts the game.  I know there will be gnashing of teeth for the comparison but in my head I'm thinking about WoW and the ability to have a character on either side of that conflict.  Open world pvp wouldn't work so much but they could open things up to more than just the Ettenmoors and allow for pvp between the 2 sides. 

    I definitely agree!  Rohan HAS to come with an MP zone with White Hand options, just as Mordor must surely have its own MP zone.  But open world PvP will absolutely NOT work with the Tolkein lore.

  • RocketeerRocketeer Member UncommonPosts: 1,303

    Originally posted by Airwren

     You're definitely right about needing a 3rd faction for things like realm pvp and open world pvp so my idea of having an open area like Rohan or Gondor for open pvp wouldn't really work so well.  However, that doesn't really eliminate the point that the lack of ability to play the forces of darkness like you can the forces of good hurts the game.  I know there will be gnashing of teeth for the comparison but in my head I'm thinking about WoW and the ability to have a character on either side of that conflict.  Open world pvp wouldn't work so much but they could open things up to more than just the Ettenmoors and allow for pvp between the 2 sides. 

    Im not a WoW hater, i just stopped playing it. That being said i merely want to point out that there is no "conflict" between horde and alliance in wow. Unless you count accidently flying above one of the other factions camps and getting pwned as conflict. Even if your playing on a PvP server and get attacked by one of the other faction thats hardly a conflict, the attack serves no purpose, and archives ultimately nothing.

    I like senseless pvp as much as the next guy, but it really doesnt fit much with the lore and feel of LoTRO. Really there are sooo many games with oPvP that have been failures, it should really teach us that its not the answer. Even if we like PvP, maybe especially if we like it. Imho a game has to be cosntructed from the ground up with pvp in mind to be fun and balanced. 

  • MiffyMiffy Member Posts: 244

    I didn't like the character models/animation and I didn't like the lack of good PVP.

  • ProfanityJCProfanityJC Member Posts: 32

    I posted earlier about this, I was in the open beta and played at release for about 6 months...

    After giving this thread some more thought I remembered one of the other things that irked me about this game: The lack of a customizable interface, at least at the time. Not sure how it is now. At launch we could not even scale the action bars if running on a high res machine...

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