Hey man I hope that one day DF could reach Eve in both polish and gameplay features but right now it can't even touch Eve in 2003.
Oh and your last line is way off bro. Just check the feature lists for both games. I've been playing Eve for two years now and still havent done everything the game has to offer yet I basically did everything in DF within three months.
In DFO you can be an explorer, in EVE you can be an explorer. In DFO you can be a PvPer, in EVE you can be a PvPer. In DFO you can hunt difficult creatures who actually think, in EVE you can... oh wait... no you can't. In DFO you can craft and choose from various proffessions... guess what? You can in EVE as well! I could go into more detail, but I feel I've got my point across.
And it will never touch EVE unless EVE tanks, EVE is just far to into it's life to slow down enough for DFO to catch up.
ummm Sleepers?
Dude do yourself a favor and either stop posting about a game you know very little about or actually play the damn game and then come and post.
You realize eve has many different aspects in "exploration" right? You understand that Eve doesn't just have "crafting" right?
Man... You remind me of one of those guys that tries to carry a convo on a game he only read about.
In DFO you can be an explorer, in EVE you can be an explorer. In DFO you can be a PvPer, in EVE you can be a PvPer. In DFO you can hunt difficult creatures who actually think, in EVE you can... oh wait... no you can't. In DFO you can craft and choose from various proffessions... guess what? You can in EVE as well! I could go into more detail, but I feel I've got my point across.
And it will never touch EVE unless EVE tanks, EVE is just far to into it's life to slow down enough for DFO to catch up.
You can't generalize a game too much and try to call them both basically the same. Combat systems are different. The role of stats are treated differently. You really have to get down into more of the nitty gritty to see the differences. EVE's progression on "skill" is entirely based on time, nothing in game can change that. If you go by your argument, DO could be no different than most other MMO's.
DFO is like WoW because you can PvP. You can explore continents albeit very fast. You can choose from various professions. They both have large scale PvP battles. I mean using this, you can arguably say DFO is similar to
The only difference between DFO and EVE is combat and how skill progression is done. Thank you for pointing ou the combat part.
Originally posted by Cinduat Originally posted by Jairoe03
Originally posted by Cinduat
In DFO you can be an explorer, in EVE you can be an explorer. In DFO you can be a PvPer, in EVE you can be a PvPer. In DFO you can hunt difficult creatures who actually think, in EVE you can... oh wait... no you can't. In DFO you can craft and choose from various proffessions... guess what? You can in EVE as well! I could go into more detail, but I feel I've got my point across. And it will never touch EVE unless EVE tanks, EVE is just far to into it's life to slow down enough for DFO to catch up.
You can't generalize a game too much and try to call them both basically the same. Combat systems are different. The role of stats are treated differently. You really have to get down into more of the nitty gritty to see the differences. EVE's progression on "skill" is entirely based on time, nothing in game can change that. If you go by your argument, DO could be no different than most other MMO's. DFO is like WoW because you can PvP. You can explore continents albeit very fast. You can choose from various professions. They both have large scale PvP battles. I mean using this, you can arguably say DFO is similar to The only difference between DFO and EVE is combat and how skill progression is done. Thank you for pointing ou the combat part.
Sure, I won't argue about what perspectives you take as long as you agree that DFO is just like WoW as well following your reasonings.
Hey man I hope that one day DF could reach Eve in both polish and gameplay features but right now it can't even touch Eve in 2003.
Oh and your last line is way off bro. Just check the feature lists for both games. I've been playing Eve for two years now and still havent done everything the game has to offer yet I basically did everything in DF within three months.
In DFO you can be an explorer, in EVE you can be an explorer. In DFO you can be a PvPer, in EVE you can be a PvPer. In DFO you can hunt difficult creatures who actually think, in EVE you can... oh wait... no you can't. In DFO you can craft and choose from various proffessions... guess what? You can in EVE as well! I could go into more detail, but I feel I've got my point across.
And it will never touch EVE unless EVE tanks, EVE is just far to into it's life to slow down enough for DFO to catch up.
ummm Sleepers?
Dude do yourself a favor and either stop posting about a game you know very little about or actually play the damn game and then come and post.
You realize eve has many different aspects in "exploration" right? You understand that Eve doesn't just have "crafting" right?
Man... You remind me of one of those guys that tries to carry a convo on a game he only read about.
I'll admit, I haven't play EVE a ton. But the PvE content I did partake in consisted of the same NPCs, doing the same thing. Rushing at my ship and shooting until I killed them. None of them tried to run, none of them tried to do anything but lock and shoot and die.
In DFO you can be an explorer, in EVE you can be an explorer. In DFO you can be a PvPer, in EVE you can be a PvPer. In DFO you can hunt difficult creatures who actually think, in EVE you can... oh wait... no you can't. In DFO you can craft and choose from various proffessions... guess what? You can in EVE as well! I could go into more detail, but I feel I've got my point across.
And it will never touch EVE unless EVE tanks, EVE is just far to into it's life to slow down enough for DFO to catch up.
You can't generalize a game too much and try to call them both basically the same. Combat systems are different. The role of stats are treated differently. You really have to get down into more of the nitty gritty to see the differences. EVE's progression on "skill" is entirely based on time, nothing in game can change that. If you go by your argument, DO could be no different than most other MMO's.
DFO is like WoW because you can PvP. You can explore continents albeit very fast. You can choose from various professions. They both have large scale PvP battles. I mean using this, you can arguably say DFO is similar to
The only difference between DFO and EVE is combat and how skill progression is done. Thank you for pointing ou the combat part.
Sure, I won't argue about what perspectives you take as long as you agree that DFO is just like WoW as well following your reasonings.
It is similar to WoW, but it differs in that WoW has levels, DFO has skills, WoW has Classes, DFO does not. In WoW armor is locked by class, in DFO, it is not. In WoW you die you get rez sickness, in DFO you lose your stuff.
In DFO you can be an explorer, in EVE you can be an explorer. In DFO you can be a PvPer, in EVE you can be a PvPer. In DFO you can hunt difficult creatures who actually think, in EVE you can... oh wait... no you can't. In DFO you can craft and choose from various proffessions... guess what? You can in EVE as well! I could go into more detail, but I feel I've got my point across.
And it will never touch EVE unless EVE tanks, EVE is just far to into it's life to slow down enough for DFO to catch up.
You can't generalize a game too much and try to call them both basically the same. Combat systems are different. The role of stats are treated differently. You really have to get down into more of the nitty gritty to see the differences. EVE's progression on "skill" is entirely based on time, nothing in game can change that. If you go by your argument, DO could be no different than most other MMO's.
DFO is like WoW because you can PvP. You can explore continents albeit very fast. You can choose from various professions. They both have large scale PvP battles. I mean using this, you can arguably say DFO is similar to
The only difference between DFO and EVE is combat and how skill progression is done. Thank you for pointing ou the combat part.
Sure, I won't argue about what perspectives you take as long as you agree that DFO is just like WoW as well following your reasonings.
It is similar to WoW, but it differs in that WoW has levels, DFO has skills, WoW has Classes, DFO does not. In WoW armor is locked by class, in DFO, it is not. In WoW you die you get rez sickness, in DFO you lose your stuff.
So you generalize Eve yet you go into specifics when it comes to WoW.
Save for time-based skilling, DFO is pretty much EVE on land... and as you can see... not that appealling to the masses.
How is DF anything like EVE? That's preposterious.
Open world PvP, lose everything on you if you die, skill based progression rather than leveling. Classless, various choices for crafting with crafting actually being useful. Being an explorer can pay off in both games, being a PvPer can pay off in both games. Sieges in DFO = Fleet battle in EVE.
The only difference is space, actual humanoid avatar and PvE content(which when you think of it isn't all that different).
I could probably think of many more reasons why EVE and DFO are similar.
If you think those features make the games pretty much the same.. yea good luck with that.
Do tell how I' am wrong.
Its not so much the similarities between the two games but where they are different that makes a considerable difference.
1) Open world PVP - EVE has empire space with high/low sec regions with varying degrees of safety and penalties for killing players. DFO has something similar, but much more simple and it can largely be disregarded as inconsequential.
2) Lose everything when you die. True, but the winner doesn't get to keep everything, a portion of the loot including the ship is destroyed.
3) Skill based progression vs leveling - But in DFO, you have to actively do things in the game to level up your skills, in EVE they train up in real time whether you play or not. A huge difference that people either love or loath.
4) Classless - Not really true for EVE. Though you can train up every skill, ships definitely play a class role and are fitted with modules accordingly. In DFO a player could quickly switch between healing to DPS roles while in EVE if your ship is set up as a remote repper, you are giving up considerable DPS and changing it is not quickly done once you undock. So EVE has psuedo class mechanics, they just aren't in your face but they do limit you in combat.
5) Crafting - While both games have meaningful crafting, the depth of EVE's far outweigh's DF's if you compare them.
6) Exploring can pay off in both games, but in EVE you frequently have to fight to take advantage. Probably same is true in DFO.
7) Being a PVPer can pay off. DFO has the edge here, few players who focus solely on PVP really prosper financially which even the most successful pirates will confirm. Most players have to engage in some other activity to fund their efforts.
8) Sieges in DFO = Fleet Battles in EVE - Maybe, the stakes in EVE are higher IMO, the battles larger, and while any single in player in DFO has minimal impact in in the overall scheme in a big battle, pilots of Titans, Dreadnaughts and Carriers can totally turn the tide of a fight...... and yet, so can the smaller ship pilots as well. But I will agree, both games provide something worth fighting for to make PVP meaningful to the player community.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Hey man I hope that one day DF could reach Eve in both polish and gameplay features but right now it can't even touch Eve in 2003.
Oh and your last line is way off bro. Just check the feature lists for both games. I've been playing Eve for two years now and still havent done everything the game has to offer yet I basically did everything in DF within three months.
In DFO you can be an explorer, in EVE you can be an explorer. In DFO you can be a PvPer, in EVE you can be a PvPer. In DFO you can hunt difficult creatures who actually think, in EVE you can... oh wait... no you can't. In DFO you can craft and choose from various proffessions... guess what? You can in EVE as well! I could go into more detail, but I feel I've got my point across.
And it will never touch EVE unless EVE tanks, EVE is just far to into it's life to slow down enough for DFO to catch up.
ummm Sleepers?
Dude do yourself a favor and either stop posting about a game you know very little about or actually play the damn game and then come and post.
You realize eve has many different aspects in "exploration" right? You understand that Eve doesn't just have "crafting" right?
Man... You remind me of one of those guys that tries to carry a convo on a game he only read about.
I'll admit, I haven't play EVE a ton. But the PvE content I did partake in consisted of the same NPCs, doing the same thing. Rushing at my ship and shooting until I killed them. None of them tried to run, none of them tried to do anything but lock and shoot and die.
Your judging Eve pve by early mission running? that's like judging DFs pve by the first pack of goblins you fight.
BTW I just wanted to add that this is one of the most productive and interesting discussions I've read on this site. What a pity the mods decided to "bury" it in the EVE folder.
Save for time-based skilling, DFO is pretty much EVE on land... and as you can see... not that appealling to the masses.
How is DF anything like EVE? That's preposterious.
Open world PvP, lose everything on you if you die, skill based progression rather than leveling. Classless, various choices for crafting with crafting actually being useful. Being an explorer can pay off in both games, being a PvPer can pay off in both games. Sieges in DFO = Fleet battle in EVE.
The only difference is space, actual humanoid avatar and PvE content(which when you think of it isn't all that different).
I could probably think of many more reasons why EVE and DFO are similar.
If you think those features make the games pretty much the same.. yea good luck with that.
Do tell how I' am wrong.
Its not so much the similarities between the two games but where they are different that makes a considerable difference.
1) Open world PVP - EVE has empire space with high/low sec regions with varying degrees of safety and penalties for killing players. DFO has something similar, but much more simple and it can largely be disregarded as inconsequential.
2) Lose everything when you die. True, but the winner doesn't get to keep everything, a portion of the loot including the ship is destroyed.
3) Skill based progression vs leveling - But in DFO, you have to actively do things in the game to level up your skills, in EVE they train up in real time whether you play or not. A huge difference that people either love or loath.
4) Classless - Not really true for EVE. Though you can train up every skill, ships definitely play a class role and are fitted with modules accordingly. In DFO a player could quickly switch between healing to DPS roles while in EVE if your ship is set up as a remote repper, you are giving up considerable DPS and changing it is not quickly done once you undock. So EVE has psuedo class mechanics, they just aren't in your face but they do limit you in combat.
5) Crafting - While both games have meaningful crafting, the depth of EVE's far outweigh's DF's if you compare them.
6) Exploring can pay off in both games, but in EVE you frequently have to fight to take advantage. Probably same is true in DFO.
7) Being a PVPer can pay off. DFO has the edge here, few players who focus solely on PVP really prosper financially which even the most successful pirates will confirm. Most players have to engage in some other activity to fund their efforts.
8) Sieges in DFO = Fleet Battles in EVE - Maybe, the stakes in EVE are higher IMO, the battles larger, and while any single in player in DFO has minimal impact in in the overall scheme in a big battle, pilots of Titans, Dreadnaughts and Carriers can totally turn the tide of a fight...... and yet, so can the smaller ship pilots as well. But I will agree, both games provide something worth fighting for to make PVP meaningful to the player community.
All I can say is, you're right, on pretty much everything in this post. ^^
Hey man I hope that one day DF could reach Eve in both polish and gameplay features but right now it can't even touch Eve in 2003.
Oh and your last line is way off bro. Just check the feature lists for both games. I've been playing Eve for two years now and still havent done everything the game has to offer yet I basically did everything in DF within three months.
In DFO you can be an explorer, in EVE you can be an explorer. In DFO you can be a PvPer, in EVE you can be a PvPer. In DFO you can hunt difficult creatures who actually think, in EVE you can... oh wait... no you can't. In DFO you can craft and choose from various proffessions... guess what? You can in EVE as well! I could go into more detail, but I feel I've got my point across.
And it will never touch EVE unless EVE tanks, EVE is just far to into it's life to slow down enough for DFO to catch up.
ummm Sleepers?
Dude do yourself a favor and either stop posting about a game you know very little about or actually play the damn game and then come and post.
You realize eve has many different aspects in "exploration" right? You understand that Eve doesn't just have "crafting" right?
Man... You remind me of one of those guys that tries to carry a convo on a game he only read about.
I'll admit, I haven't play EVE a ton. But the PvE content I did partake in consisted of the same NPCs, doing the same thing. Rushing at my ship and shooting until I killed them. None of them tried to run, none of them tried to do anything but lock and shoot and die.
Your judging Eve pve by early mission running? that's like judging DFs pve by the first pack of goblins you fight.
Obviously pve is more than that in both games.
In DFO, a goblin reacts in the exact same manner as an orc, which is not killable upon first entering the game.
Originally posted by Cinduat How is it like WoW? You do something to do another thing in EVERY game!
Yes and no.
It is about options. You do not have any other option but grind your levels/skills to 'unlock' a game content. That is the same for WoW(or pretty much any MMO) and DF.
It is the linearity of the game. You follow certain path to achieve a game objective - while developing your character is a major part of the game.
That is not how EVE works. EVE splits the tasks between every single player in the game. Some players mine, some explore, some PVP, some trade, some haul, etc. it gets into very complex system where every character affects the game world. Every action you take has consequences and as I say, it results in something getting blown up.
EVE is the only game on the market that CANNOT exist without players. The game is so complex that it is pretty much impossible for 1 person to build and fit properly even a single ship.
There is no reason why the Eve gaming Skill can't be adapted to a Fantasy, or, magic style game, the problem is that Game Developers, are to lazy and inflexible to believe that this system actually has true merit. basically, fantasy based Game Developers, are hooked on the grind of xp style, they can't comprehend the simple notion of designing a truely wonderful game that incorporates just the simplest pleasure of just playing. That so simplistic view is lost to them.
In DFO you can be an explorer, in EVE you can be an explorer. In DFO you can be a PvPer, in EVE you can be a PvPer. In DFO you can hunt difficult creatures who actually think, in EVE you can... oh wait... no you can't. In DFO you can craft and choose from various proffessions... guess what? You can in EVE as well! I could go into more detail, but I feel I've got my point across.
And it will never touch EVE unless EVE tanks, EVE is just far to into it's life to slow down enough for DFO to catch up.
You can't generalize a game too much and try to call them both basically the same. Combat systems are different. The role of stats are treated differently. You really have to get down into more of the nitty gritty to see the differences. EVE's progression on "skill" is entirely based on time, nothing in game can change that. If you go by your argument, DO could be no different than most other MMO's.
DFO is like WoW because you can PvP. You can explore continents albeit very fast. You can choose from various professions. They both have large scale PvP battles. I mean using this, you can arguably say DFO is similar to
The only difference between DFO and EVE is combat and how skill progression is done. Thank you for pointing ou the combat part.
Sure, I won't argue about what perspectives you take as long as you agree that DFO is just like WoW as well following your reasonings.
It is similar to WoW, but it differs in that WoW has levels, DFO has skills, WoW has Classes, DFO does not. In WoW armor is locked by class, in DFO, it is not. In WoW you die you get rez sickness, in DFO you lose your stuff.
So you generalize Eve yet you go into specifics when it comes to WoW.
God forbid your game is like WoW aye?
Because if I compare it to EVE, I need to make a pretty big post... and I'm not very interested in doing that.
Look at the Catman's post, I don't remember the username. ><
Hey man I hope that one day DF could reach Eve in both polish and gameplay features but right now it can't even touch Eve in 2003.
Oh and your last line is way off bro. Just check the feature lists for both games. I've been playing Eve for two years now and still havent done everything the game has to offer yet I basically did everything in DF within three months.
In DFO you can be an explorer, in EVE you can be an explorer. In DFO you can be a PvPer, in EVE you can be a PvPer. In DFO you can hunt difficult creatures who actually think, in EVE you can... oh wait... no you can't. In DFO you can craft and choose from various proffessions... guess what? You can in EVE as well! I could go into more detail, but I feel I've got my point across.
And it will never touch EVE unless EVE tanks, EVE is just far to into it's life to slow down enough for DFO to catch up.
ummm Sleepers?
Dude do yourself a favor and either stop posting about a game you know very little about or actually play the damn game and then come and post.
You realize eve has many different aspects in "exploration" right? You understand that Eve doesn't just have "crafting" right?
Man... You remind me of one of those guys that tries to carry a convo on a game he only read about.
I'll admit, I haven't play EVE a ton. But the PvE content I did partake in consisted of the same NPCs, doing the same thing. Rushing at my ship and shooting until I killed them. None of them tried to run, none of them tried to do anything but lock and shoot and die.
Your judging Eve pve by early mission running? that's like judging DFs pve by the first pack of goblins you fight.
Obviously pve is more than that in both games.
In DFO, a goblin reacts in the exact same manner as an orc, which is not killable upon first entering the game.
You get the jist of DFO's PVE right off the bat.
Right here you figured out one of the ways the games are different. grats
How is it like WoW? You do something to do another thing in EVERY game!
Yes and no.
It is about options. You do not have any other option but grind your levels/skills to 'unlock' a game content. That is the same for WoW(or pretty much any MMO) and DF.
It is the linearity of the game. You follow certain path to achieve a game objective - while developing your character is a major part of the game.
That is not how EVE works. EVE splits the tasks between every single player in the game. Some players mine, some explore, some PVP, some trade, some haul, etc. it gets into very complex system where every character affects the game world. Every action you take has consequences and as I say, it results in something getting blown up.
EVE is the only game on the market that CANNOT exist without players. The game is so complex that it is pretty much impossible for 1 person to build and fit properly even a single ship.
In DF some mine/woodcut/gather herbs/hunt, some players PvP and some trade. I'm not sure what you mean by haul...
Hey man I hope that one day DF could reach Eve in both polish and gameplay features but right now it can't even touch Eve in 2003.
Oh and your last line is way off bro. Just check the feature lists for both games. I've been playing Eve for two years now and still havent done everything the game has to offer yet I basically did everything in DF within three months.
In DFO you can be an explorer, in EVE you can be an explorer. In DFO you can be a PvPer, in EVE you can be a PvPer. In DFO you can hunt difficult creatures who actually think, in EVE you can... oh wait... no you can't. In DFO you can craft and choose from various proffessions... guess what? You can in EVE as well! I could go into more detail, but I feel I've got my point across.
And it will never touch EVE unless EVE tanks, EVE is just far to into it's life to slow down enough for DFO to catch up.
ummm Sleepers?
Dude do yourself a favor and either stop posting about a game you know very little about or actually play the damn game and then come and post.
You realize eve has many different aspects in "exploration" right? You understand that Eve doesn't just have "crafting" right?
Man... You remind me of one of those guys that tries to carry a convo on a game he only read about.
I'll admit, I haven't play EVE a ton. But the PvE content I did partake in consisted of the same NPCs, doing the same thing. Rushing at my ship and shooting until I killed them. None of them tried to run, none of them tried to do anything but lock and shoot and die.
Your judging Eve pve by early mission running? that's like judging DFs pve by the first pack of goblins you fight.
Obviously pve is more than that in both games.
In DFO, a goblin reacts in the exact same manner as an orc, which is not killable upon first entering the game.
You get the jist of DFO's PVE right off the bat.
Right here you figured out one of the ways the games are different. grats
I can point out many ways they are similar, but I'm lazy and prefer smaller posts.
Originally posted by Cinduat In DF some mine/woodcut/gather herbs/hunt, some players PvP and some trade. I'm not sure what you mean by haul...
This is why I said features are irrelevant. You can do the exact same thing but how it is implemented and how it interacts with other parts of the game is the difference - it is the design of the game.
In both games the players do the same but the impact on the game world is incomparable.
Hauling is moving stuff from one place to another. Something you won't see with global banking.
In DF some mine/woodcut/gather herbs/hunt, some players PvP and some trade. I'm not sure what you mean by haul...
This is why I said features are irrelevant. You can do the exact same thing but how it is implemented and how it interacts with other parts of the game is the difference - it is the design of the game.
In both games the players do the same but the impact on the game world is incomparable.
Hauling is moving stuff from one place to another. Something you won't see with global banking.
Ah, I see now.
I'm not sure of the impact of players on EVE becuase nothing changed for both weeks of my trial.
Originally posted by Cinduat Ah, I see now. I'm not sure of the impact of players on EVE becuase nothing changed for both weeks of my trial. I suppose it's a long term sort of thing.
Of course you left your footprint in EVE!
It is just more subtle and requires some deeper knowledge how the things work under the hood ;-)
Let's take a look on high sec 'carebears'. While many people see them as evil and unnecessary part of the game, they are valuable part of the game. Every time you get a loot on a mission and sell it on the market, it is available to players who use the loot to get minerals via reprocessing, people who are inventing T2 blueprints for production, people who haul stuff for profit, people who do trades, etc. That does works the other way round too - every time you purchase something you vote with your wallet saying this product is worth this price thus as a customer you give incentives for production.
All is linked and if it works correctly, you could say that changes in customer demand changes the warfare over the resources as they gain on value.
As you can see, your actions do affect other players thus affecting the game world.
The only difference between DFO and EVE is combat and how skill progression is done. Thank you for pointing ou the combat part.
Sure, I won't argue about what perspectives you take as long as you agree that DFO is just like WoW as well following your reasonings.
It is similar to WoW, but it differs in that WoW has levels, DFO has skills, WoW has Classes, DFO does not. In WoW armor is locked by class, in DFO, it is not. In WoW you die you get rez sickness, in DFO you lose your stuff.
So you generalize Eve yet you go into specifics when it comes to WoW. God forbid your game is like WoW aye?
The point was nothing to do with WoW, I merel used it because it is the most known game. It's the fact that with proper generalizations you can make loose comparisons and find similarities between any 2 games like Cinduat did previously. As he pointed out in his response, he started making more detailed differences and obviously arguing that these two games are in fact not similar at all.
This type of thinking can be applied to EVE and DFO. If you look at the details between the two games, they aren't as similar as he's making it out to be. But he started with loose generalizations and I was merely pointing out the fallacies in them.
Ultimately, DFO and EVE are two different games when it gets down to it.
Ultimately, DFO and EVE are two different games when it gets down to it.
Of course they are different in the execution of specific game mechanics, but in their core philosophy, they are also pretty similar.
However, this thread is about EVE's system (game mechanics) working in a Fantasy setting and the poster is saying its already being done through DFO, which entirely isn't the case. This isn't about core philosophy as opposed to a specific system being utilized under a different type of setting.
You can take a core philosophy and implement it in two totally different ways i.e. -- Philosophy:Pvp-centric, full loot....one game can be skill based and another can be level based. one can emphasize abilities and character stats where as the other can emphasize gear...you can see where you can go with this.
To bring the thread back in line, we were asking whether or it should be an off-line only type progression or a constant time progression like EVE is in its purest form. Also, provided other alternatives to how it cuold work by providing progression when offline but having the player progress character manually when online.
Some people disagreed in terms of context with examples such as literacy amongst population or being able to learn a craft by merely reading books without any "applications of the conceps learned in thhose books".
Sorry if I missed anything, but figured we could recap on whats going on and bring it more inline with the thread title. A fantasy game with EVE's system would need to be deep on all levels, not just combat, and it has to contain enough variety to make the world appear living and breathing. Most importantly it has to be entirely player driven, open skills with progression based on some form of time and promote player interactivity either cooperative or competitive.
Originally posted by Pala Originally posted by Dubhlaith
Except in EVE. And that is why I cannot play the game.
Uf, you didnt really pay Eve did you? What you describe you want is exactly how Eve works, when you have skills capable of flying a frigate it doesnt mean that you actually can fly it well. You are master of nothing at that point just like when you get your drivers licence. I don't have time to elaborate but that is an absolutely basic concept in EVE and the whole game is built on precisly what you claim to want.
You missed my point. You can master a skill without actually doing it. Your mastery of flying frigates has absolutely nothing with how much flying in a frigate you have done. You can get the skill to four or five, I forget, without ever, ever having been in a frigate. That is my point.
I thought I was clear, but I will try again, because this is actually quite important to me, because CCP owns the WoD MMO. Your progression in power and ability is not connected to anything you actually do in the game world. You simply pick what you want to be good at and you gradually get better at it. I feel that to get better at say, targeting your lasers, you should have to target some lasers and shoot stuff out of the sky. In EVE, you do not have to do this. You just have to pick the "Laser" skill and learn it. After a while, you are a master of lasers, without ever having fired a shot.
Of course, that makes perfect sense in the IP, but I cannot play a game where in-game actions and progression are not connected.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Originally posted by Dubhlaith You missed my point. You can master a skill without actually doing it. Your mastery of flying frigates has absolutely nothing with how much flying in a frigate you have done. You can get the skill to four or five, I forget, without ever, ever having been in a frigate. That is my point. I thought I was clear, but I will try again, because this is actually quite important to me, because CCP owns the WoD MMO. Your progression in power and ability is not connected to anything you actually do in the game world. You simply pick what you want to be good at and you gradually get better at it. I feel that to get better at say, targeting your lasers, you should have to target some lasers and shoot stuff out of the sky. In EVE, you do not have to do this. You just have to pick the "Laser" skill and learn it. After a while, you are a master of lasers, without ever having fired a shot.Of course, that makes perfect sense in the IP, but I cannot play a game where in-game actions and progression are not connected.
In the context of Sci-Fi, that really doesn't matter if you haven't had the experience. In the Matrix, Keanu Reaves "mastered" many forms of martial arts merely by downloading it into his brain. In EVE Online, you are an immortal that lives in a capsule. In this context, its purely feasible, but obviously in a fantasy setting, that part would have to be tweaked into something else.
In the context of gameplay, the skills you have in EVE doesn't define you as much as people think it does. You're defined by your ships, the facilities you own/can run, equipment for ships which ultimately requires ISK to do any of it.
Even if you master everything about frigates, if you didn't spend any of your time making money doing missions and flying in your frigate, you will never afford more advanced equipment and ships, yet alone the skills required to even operate them. I would say plaeyr economy (wealth and assets) has a much greater emphasis on your character than the skills learned.
Comments
ummm Sleepers?
Dude do yourself a favor and either stop posting about a game you know very little about or actually play the damn game and then come and post.
You realize eve has many different aspects in "exploration" right? You understand that Eve doesn't just have "crafting" right?
Man... You remind me of one of those guys that tries to carry a convo on a game he only read about.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
The only difference between DFO and EVE is combat and how skill progression is done. Thank you for pointing ou the combat part.
It is my opinion, that your opinion is incorrect.
DFO is like WoW because you can PvP. You can explore continents albeit very fast. You can choose from various professions. They both have large scale PvP battles. I mean using this, you can arguably say DFO is similar to
The only difference between DFO and EVE is combat and how skill progression is done. Thank you for pointing ou the combat part.
Sure, I won't argue about what perspectives you take as long as you agree that DFO is just like WoW as well following your reasonings.
I'll admit, I haven't play EVE a ton. But the PvE content I did partake in consisted of the same NPCs, doing the same thing. Rushing at my ship and shooting until I killed them. None of them tried to run, none of them tried to do anything but lock and shoot and die.
It is my opinion, that your opinion is incorrect.
It is similar to WoW, but it differs in that WoW has levels, DFO has skills, WoW has Classes, DFO does not. In WoW armor is locked by class, in DFO, it is not. In WoW you die you get rez sickness, in DFO you lose your stuff.
It is my opinion, that your opinion is incorrect.
So you generalize Eve yet you go into specifics when it comes to WoW.
God forbid your game is like WoW aye?
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Its not so much the similarities between the two games but where they are different that makes a considerable difference.
1) Open world PVP - EVE has empire space with high/low sec regions with varying degrees of safety and penalties for killing players. DFO has something similar, but much more simple and it can largely be disregarded as inconsequential.
2) Lose everything when you die. True, but the winner doesn't get to keep everything, a portion of the loot including the ship is destroyed.
3) Skill based progression vs leveling - But in DFO, you have to actively do things in the game to level up your skills, in EVE they train up in real time whether you play or not. A huge difference that people either love or loath.
4) Classless - Not really true for EVE. Though you can train up every skill, ships definitely play a class role and are fitted with modules accordingly. In DFO a player could quickly switch between healing to DPS roles while in EVE if your ship is set up as a remote repper, you are giving up considerable DPS and changing it is not quickly done once you undock. So EVE has psuedo class mechanics, they just aren't in your face but they do limit you in combat.
5) Crafting - While both games have meaningful crafting, the depth of EVE's far outweigh's DF's if you compare them.
6) Exploring can pay off in both games, but in EVE you frequently have to fight to take advantage. Probably same is true in DFO.
7) Being a PVPer can pay off. DFO has the edge here, few players who focus solely on PVP really prosper financially which even the most successful pirates will confirm. Most players have to engage in some other activity to fund their efforts.
8) Sieges in DFO = Fleet Battles in EVE - Maybe, the stakes in EVE are higher IMO, the battles larger, and while any single in player in DFO has minimal impact in in the overall scheme in a big battle, pilots of Titans, Dreadnaughts and Carriers can totally turn the tide of a fight...... and yet, so can the smaller ship pilots as well. But I will agree, both games provide something worth fighting for to make PVP meaningful to the player community.
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Your judging Eve pve by early mission running? that's like judging DFs pve by the first pack of goblins you fight.
Obviously pve is more than that in both games.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
BTW I just wanted to add that this is one of the most productive and interesting discussions I've read on this site. What a pity the mods decided to "bury" it in the EVE folder.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
All I can say is, you're right, on pretty much everything in this post. ^^
It is my opinion, that your opinion is incorrect.
In DFO, a goblin reacts in the exact same manner as an orc, which is not killable upon first entering the game.
You get the jist of DFO's PVE right off the bat.
It is my opinion, that your opinion is incorrect.
Yes and no.
It is about options. You do not have any other option but grind your levels/skills to 'unlock' a game content. That is the same for WoW(or pretty much any MMO) and DF.
It is the linearity of the game. You follow certain path to achieve a game objective - while developing your character is a major part of the game.
That is not how EVE works. EVE splits the tasks between every single player in the game. Some players mine, some explore, some PVP, some trade, some haul, etc. it gets into very complex system where every character affects the game world. Every action you take has consequences and as I say, it results in something getting blown up.
EVE is the only game on the market that CANNOT exist without players. The game is so complex that it is pretty much impossible for 1 person to build and fit properly even a single ship.
There is no reason why the Eve gaming Skill can't be adapted to a Fantasy, or, magic style game, the problem is that Game Developers, are to lazy and inflexible to believe that this system actually has true merit. basically, fantasy based Game Developers, are hooked on the grind of xp style, they can't comprehend the simple notion of designing a truely wonderful game that incorporates just the simplest pleasure of just playing. That so simplistic view is lost to them.
Because if I compare it to EVE, I need to make a pretty big post... and I'm not very interested in doing that.
Look at the Catman's post, I don't remember the username. ><
It is my opinion, that your opinion is incorrect.
Right here you figured out one of the ways the games are different. grats
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
In DF some mine/woodcut/gather herbs/hunt, some players PvP and some trade. I'm not sure what you mean by haul...
It is my opinion, that your opinion is incorrect.
I can point out many ways they are similar, but I'm lazy and prefer smaller posts.
It is my opinion, that your opinion is incorrect.
This is why I said features are irrelevant. You can do the exact same thing but how it is implemented and how it interacts with other parts of the game is the difference - it is the design of the game.
In both games the players do the same but the impact on the game world is incomparable.
Hauling is moving stuff from one place to another. Something you won't see with global banking.
Ah, I see now.
I'm not sure of the impact of players on EVE becuase nothing changed for both weeks of my trial.
I suppose it's a long term sort of thing.
It is my opinion, that your opinion is incorrect.
Of course you left your footprint in EVE!
It is just more subtle and requires some deeper knowledge how the things work under the hood ;-)
Let's take a look on high sec 'carebears'. While many people see them as evil and unnecessary part of the game, they are valuable part of the game. Every time you get a loot on a mission and sell it on the market, it is available to players who use the loot to get minerals via reprocessing, people who are inventing T2 blueprints for production, people who haul stuff for profit, people who do trades, etc. That does works the other way round too - every time you purchase something you vote with your wallet saying this product is worth this price thus as a customer you give incentives for production.
All is linked and if it works correctly, you could say that changes in customer demand changes the warfare over the resources as they gain on value.
As you can see, your actions do affect other players thus affecting the game world.
The point was nothing to do with WoW, I merel used it because it is the most known game. It's the fact that with proper generalizations you can make loose comparisons and find similarities between any 2 games like Cinduat did previously. As he pointed out in his response, he started making more detailed differences and obviously arguing that these two games are in fact not similar at all.
This type of thinking can be applied to EVE and DFO. If you look at the details between the two games, they aren't as similar as he's making it out to be. But he started with loose generalizations and I was merely pointing out the fallacies in them.
Ultimately, DFO and EVE are two different games when it gets down to it.
Of course they are different in the execution of specific game mechanics, but in their core philosophy, they are also pretty similar.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
However, this thread is about EVE's system (game mechanics) working in a Fantasy setting and the poster is saying its already being done through DFO, which entirely isn't the case. This isn't about core philosophy as opposed to a specific system being utilized under a different type of setting.
You can take a core philosophy and implement it in two totally different ways i.e. -- Philosophy:Pvp-centric, full loot....one game can be skill based and another can be level based. one can emphasize abilities and character stats where as the other can emphasize gear...you can see where you can go with this.
To bring the thread back in line, we were asking whether or it should be an off-line only type progression or a constant time progression like EVE is in its purest form. Also, provided other alternatives to how it cuold work by providing progression when offline but having the player progress character manually when online.
Some people disagreed in terms of context with examples such as literacy amongst population or being able to learn a craft by merely reading books without any "applications of the conceps learned in thhose books".
Sorry if I missed anything, but figured we could recap on whats going on and bring it more inline with the thread title. A fantasy game with EVE's system would need to be deep on all levels, not just combat, and it has to contain enough variety to make the world appear living and breathing. Most importantly it has to be entirely player driven, open skills with progression based on some form of time and promote player interactivity either cooperative or competitive.
I don't have time to elaborate but that is an absolutely basic concept in EVE and the whole game is built on precisly what you claim to want.
You missed my point. You can master a skill without actually doing it. Your mastery of flying frigates has absolutely nothing with how much flying in a frigate you have done. You can get the skill to four or five, I forget, without ever, ever having been in a frigate. That is my point.
I thought I was clear, but I will try again, because this is actually quite important to me, because CCP owns the WoD MMO. Your progression in power and ability is not connected to anything you actually do in the game world. You simply pick what you want to be good at and you gradually get better at it. I feel that to get better at say, targeting your lasers, you should have to target some lasers and shoot stuff out of the sky. In EVE, you do not have to do this. You just have to pick the "Laser" skill and learn it. After a while, you are a master of lasers, without ever having fired a shot.
Of course, that makes perfect sense in the IP, but I cannot play a game where in-game actions and progression are not connected.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
In the context of Sci-Fi, that really doesn't matter if you haven't had the experience. In the Matrix, Keanu Reaves "mastered" many forms of martial arts merely by downloading it into his brain. In EVE Online, you are an immortal that lives in a capsule. In this context, its purely feasible, but obviously in a fantasy setting, that part would have to be tweaked into something else.
In the context of gameplay, the skills you have in EVE doesn't define you as much as people think it does. You're defined by your ships, the facilities you own/can run, equipment for ships which ultimately requires ISK to do any of it.
Even if you master everything about frigates, if you didn't spend any of your time making money doing missions and flying in your frigate, you will never afford more advanced equipment and ships, yet alone the skills required to even operate them. I would say plaeyr economy (wealth and assets) has a much greater emphasis on your character than the skills learned.