i will tell u why, after there patch for blood sport i was happy i was like i log my guy is messed up i ask for the correct and tell me tough luck, all my stuff is all messed up and the FE Staff refuses to help. i even called they basic told me tough shit i cancelled my sub. don't go near fallen earth let them crash and burn can't even help people and screw everything up there patchs. thanks for nothing fallen earth i hope u crash and burn so bad! for ruining my game time.
Hi Oak.
Noticed you ignored Tiggs, Bailey, Morgana and all the GMs on tonight advising against using the PRI-respec for a while.
Sucks that your character got messed up, but wishing for a game to "crash and burn", drama-ing all over help chat (I was in-game for your meltdown) and swearing blue murder at everyone is no way to get a resolution.
If you had a bit more patience, /bugged it and were more mannerly about the whole thing you might have gotten a better response.
I'd advise you to try again when you've cooled down a bit. If there really is a problem with your tradeskills dropping when you have int and per at the same levels they were at prior to the respec, then you won't be the only one to have it, and they'll have to come up with a way to fix it. And they will fix it, because otherwise the players will riot.
Feel free to ignore my advice, but if it's a bug and it gets fixed, the only one losing out is you if you've quit the game.
i lost nothing, but i gained an extra 15 bucks month and some more harddrive space.
i will tell u why, after there patch for blood sport i was happy i was like i log my guy is messed up i ask for the correct and tell me tough luck, all my stuff is all messed up and the FE Staff refuses to help. i even called they basic told me tough shit i cancelled my sub. don't go near fallen earth let them crash and burn can't even help people and screw everything up there patchs. thanks for nothing fallen earth i hope u crash and burn so bad! for ruining my game time.
Hi Oak.
Noticed you ignored Tiggs, Bailey, Morgana and all the GMs on tonight advising against using the PRI-respec for a while.
Sucks that your character got messed up, but wishing for a game to "crash and burn", drama-ing all over help chat (I was in-game for your meltdown) and swearing blue murder at everyone is no way to get a resolution.
If you had a bit more patience, /bugged it and were more mannerly about the whole thing you might have gotten a better response.
I'd advise you to try again when you've cooled down a bit. If there really is a problem with your tradeskills dropping when you have int and per at the same levels they were at prior to the respec, then you won't be the only one to have it, and they'll have to come up with a way to fix it. And they will fix it, because otherwise the players will riot.
Feel free to ignore my advice, but if it's a bug and it gets fixed, the only one losing out is you if you've quit the game.
i lost nothing, but i gained an extra 15 bucks month and some more harddrive space.
I'm skipping over all the previous comments and answering the question given in the title.
Q: Why isn't Fallen Earth doing amazing ?
A: Because it was the most awful mmo I've ever played, ever. ... but please let me clarify - it is the most awful game that you have to pay for. Free games are allowed to be awful, because (say it with me) you get what you pay for ! Yes, thats right.
However, with this game, you paid for it ... and got squat. I bought this game opening weekend, played it for 3 hours (and fuck you if you say "That is not long enough to formulate an opinion - go cram a steel dick up your ass for 3 hours, and tell me you want to wait around for the "END GAME") ... where was I ? .... Oh yes, 3 hours - and put the game down.
Also note, I'll play just about anything. However, this game blows hard - and not in the good kind of "chinese hooker that you just met and may very well end up in the trunk of your car by the end of the night" - kind of way. More like a "I'm going to go play out in traffic because I can't believe I just paid full price for this hunk of garbage" - kind of way.
I give you a D plus for impressive trolling. LOL
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I just bought the game a few days ago and have played a few hours, now before you say that's not enough, I played two months in beta and was very active. From what i've seen so far many glaring issues still remain and in my opinion are the reason the game isn't doing too good:
-Graphics are dull, not bad but very boring. Technically the graphics are fairly well done but the world as a whole is very dull looking and not very interesting to see. "Its the apocalypse, what do you expect?" same i saw in fallout or borderlands, varied and inspiring locations.
-Combat is very poorly executed, people say its skill based and not "button smashing" but last time i checked my hot bar was filled with mutations. The FPS side has very clunky controls combined with weird AI which leads to a very bad experience. Another thing is that due to the bad combat you can die quite quick especially at lower lvls and are forced to go through "dungeons" all over killing all the mobs again to get to where you were.
-Isn't much to do, "its a sandbox!" well then where are the tools for me to create my own content? Besides having your own goals which are more or so the same things you were doing throughout the game it's the same old stuff. Crafting is all their seems to be at end game as the pvp is quite pointless from what i hear.
-Too much focus on quest grinding, Quests are well written but its the same old kill x stuff and you have to grind a ton of AP missions if you really wanna be good. The advancement here is no more different that wow, complete all missions in one town then move to the next.
-Yes having a classless system is good but it seems many have to sacrifice combat for crafting and with a game with such a big emphasis on crafting i think that's pretty stupid. This also leads to the fact that their isn't much help in terms of builds and stats and if you screw up you just to have to make a new character.
I believe these are the main problems with the game, the game just doesn't know what it wants to be from themepark progression to no end game to make it sandboxy leaves a lot to be desired from both sides and leaves not many happy. Although i bought the game, i don't think i would even be finishing my free 30 days because the game seems too broken and many issues which made me leave at release still remain unfixed.
I see the graphics issue brought up repeatedly, but don't put much weight there. The most successful MMOs are all behind the curve graphically. Tired of seeing FPSers and solo CRPG game players try to transition into MMOs and always trotting the graphics issue out. Frankly, IMO, graphical sophistication has been waaay overemphasized by the gaming industry over the last 10 years, to the point that the market is full of pretty games that are weak at their core as coherent, fun games. This is particularly true of the MMO genre. FE is fine graphically IMO. Character appearance customization is lacking in comparison to alternatives, true enough.
I also think the combat system is just fine, walking the tightrope between complexity and speed handily IMO.
FE is too "clicky," "timesinky" and repetitive, and I think many of the graphics and general gameplay complaints stem from this. As other posters point out, players find themselves killing mobs that look exactly the same, and often having to kill those same mobs over and over again in dungeons where the respawn rate is WAY too high and not enough resources have been spent in at least reskinning the mobs in different areas.
Players find themselves killing the nth iteration of "creepers," for example, an amusing and ironic name for oldtime gamers, but wears thin quickly, and continues to wear thin as high level players find themselves killing rats, cockroaches and coyotes ad infinitum. Humanoid mobs are little better, with some zones packed to the brim with varying levels of "Devil's Own," "Shiva's favored," and particularly Judges. The final insult is that upon reaching max level, players must grind judges, hundreds and thousands of them, to attain favored status with their chosen faction.
The mission system is uniform to the point of tedium. 1) gather missions at central hub 2) go out a significant distance from the hub to complete the mission, sometimes spending 80% or more in travel time as opposed to time spent actually DOING the missions, 3) RETURN to the mission giver for the next step of the mission, which all too often involves going right back to the same place as the previous step and killing the EXACT SAME mobs one just killed.
Moreover, someone at Icarus thinks that raw transportation obstacles are equivalent to "challenge" or "difficulty," when nothing could be further from the truth in a game where so much time is spent travelling. Getting in and out of towns, navigating around on the various mounts and vehicles, is often painfully annoying due to too many obstacles in roads, everything from boulders in main thoroughfares to tent ropes, to windy mazelike paths. Real live humanoids do not live or travel in such environments, they clear paths, transportation in main hubs should be much easier. Examples of "good" town design include St. Sebastians and Picus Ridge, bad include Fracture and Zanesville, atrociously bad include Barret Manor, Blaine and New Flagstaff. Most towns fall somewhere between "bad" and "atrocious" in terms of navigational realism.
They have dragged their feet in getting a fast travel system ingame. Clans find their members spread out 20-40 minutes apart, as do players on friendslists. No wonder the game has not a shred of the cooperation and teaming mentality necessary to endgame MMO health. It trains players to be lone wolves from the get-go because it takes a significant portion of precious time just getting to ones teammates or friends.
The complexity of the crafting system is way overdone, one can find oneself inventorying FIVE different grades of several of EIGHT different kinds of cloth that fit into a system with hundreds of base components, ALL with several different grades. Simultaneously, someone thought it would be a good idea to "split" storage into several different vaults, usually all inaccessible at the same time. I would wager that no serious player doesn't have at least one "mule" character merely for storage. Alternative storage offered in mounts stored in garages can be helpful, but because there is no standard of where the garages are located with respect to specific towns, the player has to either note or remember where the hell the gas station is near such and such town.
But the final nail, what has caused me to unsubscribe, is the hideously terrible social community at the top end of the game. Top clans seek to use any amount of dev toadying to preserve their "beta guild" advantages, whine for help for their characters, openly nerf-call, e-peen constantly about PvP, doing extreme damage to the community through their self-serving actions ingame and on the forums as opposed to serving as examples and promoting a healthy social environment. So bad is it, that I will be avoiding games altogether if I see certain FE clan names in a game from beta going forward. Have never seen worse in an MMO, and have seen pretty bad. Was amazed to find out that the chief annoyance clan in the game is actually full of older gamers, ones whom one would expect to act more maturely. Was doubly amazed, and still amazed that the dev team hasn't seen through these annoying, wonky yahoos as being the self-interested children that they are, and hadn't stopped listening to their self-interested "feedback" long ago. Just because someone is willing to set up a podcast for your game and do lots of testing doesn't mean they are a "friend" of it. Most of the high end clans take the game WAY too seriously and need some other alternate forms of entertainment desperately.
FE has lots of potential, and some obviously intelligent designers doing lots of the right things at the helm. It is a game I would like to go back to one day, as it is so hard to find legitimate niche games in the orc and elf world of MMOs.
I see the graphics issue brought up repeatedly, but don't put much weight there. The most successful MMOs are all behind the curve graphically. Tired of seeing FPSers and solo CRPG game players try to transition into MMOs and always trotting the graphics issue out. Frankly, IMO, graphical sophistication has been waaay overemphasized by the gaming industry over the last 10 years, to the point that the market is full of pretty games that are weak at their core as coherent, fun games. This is particularly true of the MMO genre. FE is fine graphically IMO. Character appearance customization is lacking in comparison to alternatives, true enough.
I also think the combat system is just fine, walking the tightrope between complexity and speed handily IMO.
FE is too "clicky," "timesinky" and repetitive, and I think many of the graphics and general gameplay complaints stem from this. As other posters point out, players find themselves killing mobs that look exactly the same, and often having to kill those same mobs over and over again in dungeons where the respawn rate is WAY too high and not enough resources have been spent in at least reskinning the mobs in different areas.
Players find themselves killing the nth iteration of "creepers," for example, an amusing and ironic name for oldtime gamers, but wears thin quickly, and continues to wear thin as high level players find themselves killing rats, cockroaches and coyotes ad infinitum. Humanoid mobs are little better, with some zones packed to the brim with varying levels of "Devil's Own," "Shiva's favored," and particularly Judges. The final insult is that upon reaching max level, players must grind judges, hundreds and thousands of them, to attain favored status with their chosen faction.
The mission system is uniform to the point of tedium. 1) gather missions at central hub 2) go out a significant distance from the hub to complete the mission, sometimes spending 80% or more in travel time as opposed to time spent actually DOING the missions, 3) RETURN to the mission giver for the next step of the mission, which all too often involves going right back to the same place as the previous step and killing the EXACT SAME mobs one just killed.
Moreover, someone at Icarus thinks that raw transportation obstacles are equivalent to "challenge" or "difficulty," when nothing could be further from the truth in a game where so much time is spent travelling. Getting in and out of towns, navigating around on the various mounts and vehicles, is often painfully annoying due to too many obstacles in roads, everything from boulders in main thoroughfares to tent ropes, to windy mazelike paths. Real live humanoids do not live or travel in such environments, they clear paths, transportation in main hubs should be much easier. Examples of "good" town design include St. Sebastians and Picus Ridge, bad include Fracture and Zanesville, atrociously bad include Barret Manor, Blaine and New Flagstaff. Most towns fall somewhere between "bad" and "atrocious" in terms of navigational realism.
They have dragged their feet in getting a fast travel system ingame. Clans find their members spread out 20-40 minutes apart, as do players on friendslists. No wonder the game has not a shred of the cooperation and teaming mentality necessary to endgame MMO health. It trains players to be lone wolves from the get-go because it takes a significant portion of precious time just getting to ones teammates or friends.
The complexity of the crafting system is way overdone, one can find oneself inventorying FIVE different grades of several of EIGHT different kinds of cloth that fit into a system with hundreds of base components, ALL with several different grades. Simultaneously, someone thought it would be a good idea to "split" storage into several different vaults, usually all inaccessible at the same time. I would wager that no serious player doesn't have at least one "mule" character merely for storage. Alternative storage offered in mounts stored in garages can be helpful, but because there is no standard of where the garages are located with respect to specific towns, the player has to either note or remember where the hell the gas station is near such and such town.
But the final nail, what has caused me to unsubscribe, is the hideously terrible social community at the top end of the game. Top clans seek to use any amount of dev toadying to preserve their "beta guild" advantages, whine for help for their characters, openly nerf-call, e-peen constantly about PvP, doing extreme damage to the community through their self-serving actions ingame and on the forums as opposed to serving as examples and promoting a healthy social environment. So bad is it, that I will be avoiding games altogether if I see certain FE clan names in a game from beta going forward. Have never seen worse in an MMO, and have seen pretty bad. Was amazed to find out that the chief annoyance clan in the game is actually full of older gamers, ones whom one would expect to act more maturely. Was doubly amazed, and still amazed that the dev team hasn't seen through these annoying, wonky yahoos as being the self-interested children that they are, and hadn't stopped listening to their self-interested "feedback" long ago. Just because someone is willing to set up a podcast for your game and do lots of testing doesn't mean they are a "friend" of it. Most of the high end clans take the game WAY too seriously and need some other alternate forms of entertainment desperately.
FE has lots of potential, and some obviously intelligent designers doing lots of the right things at the helm. It is a game I would like to go back to one day, as it is so hard to find legitimate niche games in the orc and elf world of MMOs.
They are adding fast travel and weather affects next patch...which will be going to the test servers any day....
I just bought the game a few days ago and have played a few hours, now before you say that's not enough, I played two months in beta and was very active. From what i've seen so far many glaring issues still remain and in my opinion are the reason the game isn't doing too good:
-Graphics are dull, not bad but very boring. Technically the graphics are fairly well done but the world as a whole is very dull looking and not very interesting to see. "Its the apocalypse, what do you expect?" same i saw in fallout or borderlands, varied and inspiring locations.
-Combat is very poorly executed, people say its skill based and not "button smashing" but last time i checked my hot bar was filled with mutations. The FPS side has very clunky controls combined with weird AI which leads to a very bad experience. Another thing is that due to the bad combat you can die quite quick especially at lower lvls and are forced to go through "dungeons" all over killing all the mobs again to get to where you were.
-Isn't much to do, "its a sandbox!" well then where are the tools for me to create my own content? Besides having your own goals which are more or so the same things you were doing throughout the game it's the same old stuff. Crafting is all their seems to be at end game as the pvp is quite pointless from what i hear.
-Too much focus on quest grinding, Quests are well written but its the same old kill x stuff and you have to grind a ton of AP missions if you really wanna be good. The advancement here is no more different that wow, complete all missions in one town then move to the next.
-Yes having a classless system is good but it seems many have to sacrifice combat for crafting and with a game with such a big emphasis on crafting i think that's pretty stupid. This also leads to the fact that their isn't much help in terms of builds and stats and if you screw up you just to have to make a new character.
I believe these are the main problems with the game, the game just doesn't know what it wants to be from themepark progression to no end game to make it sandboxy leaves a lot to be desired from both sides and leaves not many happy. Although i bought the game, i don't think i would even be finishing my free 30 days because the game seems too broken and many issues which made me leave at release still remain unfixed.
I to was in clsoed beta and it has come along ways since then, so I doubt you played long enough, far as teh graphics, you really didn't look very good, because with a good card, it looks amazing, best looking sunset in an MMO period...
Yes there is a few problems with the game but all games do, its matter of what you like or will put up with, but FE is one of few games I have seen go far fast with new content and they are adding group content very soon.. as they did state since beta though would do it...
But people want everything now, and you say you can't be a crafter and say something combat spec?? this is incorrect coming from a player who started in closed beta and plays now.. I do it now and I do just fine.. I have no problems crafting and being pistol spec and even owning in pvp so I dunno where you go this info, i'm guessing FE was not for you at all.
Sorry its not maybe fantasy is more your style as you seem to dislike FPS style and the world the type of game its in, you seem to like cartoony and shuney stuff that I think would be more your thing, you may wanna wait for tera online as it would be your style of game.
Tera will be good i,m sure not bashing it just saying , as you tend to bash FE about personal dislikes not the games fault, at all its what doesnt fit your game style nothing wrong with that just saying from what I can tell from your post.
FE is not for everyone but If your sick of elfs and orc and love FPS and post app settting then FE will be for you is it perfect nope, but one of the better MMO's out there that do not cater to whiners and the custmer support has one of the best I ahve seen in any game hands down, community is one of the best hands down.
The game has so much more potienal its sick and its coming month by month.. can't wait to see more.. vegas will be in the game soon, for those that loved fallout ...so it wont just be in the so called depressing area..
Housing will be here soon as well, I play many MMO's to date and I will say this is my favorite and I have seen it change so much more than any MMO from release to start and for the good, some bad, but not all. also when peopel say no respecs that is not true I just got one last patch...So the game does offer free repsecs at times, its not like WOW where you can ch
ange specs like I do my underware every second of the day. Which makes games easy mode...
Anyhow I wasn't looking to flame anyone just clearfy what is wrong with certain games over people have a good one and enjoy fallen earth or what else you may play.
PS To those on a trial I suggest you play the whole month to really know what the game is about some games you know off the bat, but I know many people who left and came back wishing they never felt.. The game is far from dead , I log on to 20-30 people a day on in my guild alone and many more in chat so, its far from dead...
Love the game but what killed it for me was the factions.As long as you can spin the wheel factions mean squat, i know a little detail but id still be playing if they changed that.
The following statement is false The previous statement is true
They are adding fast travel and weather affects next patch...which will be going to the test servers any day....
The weather I could care less about, and imagine 90% of the playerbase would agree, the fast travel they are adding is extremely limited and will still entail way too much travel to meetup with friends/clanmates.
Unless i'm mistaken Fallen Earth isn't doing that well which really suprises me. I haven't actually played it but from what I'm reading it seems EXCACTLY what 50% of the threads on here are asking for.
-No classes, you can make your character how you like it.
-A very large sandbox type world to explore.
-An innovative crafting system which also means a more player orientated economy.
-Not endless amount of grind.
-Skill based unlike the "Click a button to shoot" type gameplay.
It's everything you constantly ask for, I don't get it, unless I have misunderstood something?
No classes is a lazy design,i have said that about any game that uses that system.
A very large world to explore is true,but there is not much exploring when 90% of that world is barren empty land.
Not sure who said the crafting system is innovative,it is nothing of the sort.Crafting has taken the same simple design as many other games,only ruined it by making it unrealistic,because you can actually craft while you are not crafting.By that i mean,you can go off fighting while some magical person inside the game is crafting for you lol,sad really that they chose such a cheap design for crafting,more like a LAZY design which,seems to match the lazy no class design and the lazy empty world design.
So there is three things right there that point to a rushed hap hazard effort.It takes time to create a good crafting system,it takes tiem and effort to fill in a large world with action,models,mobs,animations ect ect,it takes a heck of a lot of time to create a class system,many more months than one that has no classes.
I am not sure what you call an endless grind,i have never seen a game with endless grind,you are either playing a game you enjoy or you are not,if you call it a grind,then it is obviously not your game.A perfect example would be to say hockey is boring because it is an endless grind of trying to score or an endless grind of shooting pucks,again it is as simple as ,you either like it or you don't.
Skill based is a VERY loose term thrown around on these forums .Skill would have a much broader definition than just aim and click would it not?FE actually fails in this department of game design,this aim and click is about all it achieves from the definition of skill.
For me personally[yes i actually bought the game ,no free trial here]it looked cheaply designed,it had the feel in every aspect of a small time developer.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I to was in clsoed beta and it has come along ways since then, so I doubt you played long enough, far as teh graphics, you really didn't look very good, because with a good card, it looks amazing, best looking sunset in an MMO period...
--I was playing on an Alienware area 51 computer so i doubt it has to do anything with my computer, as that computer is a beast. And like i said, graphics are technically good but the game overall is very dull. As for difference from CB, there might have been bug fixes and the like but everything seems to be pretty much the same including many things that were demanded during CB yet still not being here besides better grass. Could you tell me what has changed besides blood sports and bug fixes, not a fan of reading all the patch notes haha.
Yes there is a few problems with the game but all games do, its matter of what you like or will put up with, but FE is one of few games I have seen go far fast with new content and they are adding group content very soon.. as they did state since beta though would do it...
--They said they were adding group content long time ago, even on beta it was brought up many times so i was dissapointed to see it still wasn't there. As for new content, they stated they would be adding one sector every 6 months yet its been more than that and no news about it.
But people want everything now, and you say you can't be a crafter and say something combat spec?? this is incorrect coming from a player who started in closed beta and plays now.. I do it now and I do just fine.. I have no problems crafting and being pistol spec and even owning in pvp so I dunno where you go this info, i'm guessing FE was not for you at all.
--What i meant was that if you become a crafter your character becomes gimped as you can't max your combat skills and have to sacrifice that. If your saying you can beat a person with the same pvp skill as you but has no crafting skills with a main focus on combat, then ill take my statement back.
Sorry its not maybe fantasy is more your style as you seem to dislike FPS style and the world the type of game its in, you seem to like cartoony and shuney stuff that I think would be more your thing, you may wanna wait for tera online as it would be your style of game.
--I never said i don't like FPS game quite the contrary really. When i play MW2 and then play FE, you can just see how clunky the combat feels. Actually MOST reviews bring the combat up and state it as being unpolished. Being cartoony and having shiny stuff has nothing to do with my post also.
Tera will be good i,m sure not bashing it just saying , as you tend to bash FE about personal dislikes not the games fault, at all its what doesnt fit your game style nothing wrong with that just saying from what I can tell from your post.
--Not really, A LOT of people i talked to during beta and people that still play whole heartedly agree with me on all aspects but they still enjoy it none the less, would they enjoy it more if these problems were solved? Definitely.
FE is not for everyone but If your sick of elfs and orc and love FPS and post app settting then FE will be for you is it perfect nope, but one of the better MMO's out there that do not cater to whiners and the custmer support has one of the best I ahve seen in any game hands down, community is one of the best hands down.
--Talking about customer support, I've been waiting 4 days for a ticket i sent with no reply yet.
The game has so much more potienal its sick and its coming month by month.. can't wait to see more.. vegas will be in the game soon, for those that loved fallout ...so it wont just be in the so called depressing area..
--Yes the game does have a lot to offer and i guarantee you if the problems i pointed out were to be looked at, a lot more people would play the game.
Housing will be here soon as well, I play many MMO's to date and I will say this is my favorite and I have seen it change so much more than any MMO from release to start and for the good, some bad, but not all. also when peopel say no respecs that is not true I just got one last patch...So the game does offer free repsecs at times, its not like WOW where you can change specs like I do my underware every second of the day. Which makes games easy mode...
--Correct me if wrong but isnt the only reason they offered ONE not "at times" respec was due to the whole attribute system beign revamped.
I really wanted to like this game, and i did like much of the game world and most of the game.
But what absolutely killed it for me, was i did not like the entire character development system, i hated having to print out a list of quests and run all around the different towns to do the ones that rewarded points.
If points were only given based off of exp then it would have been perfect, you could make your way through the world using a unique path, but having to always be obsessing over the different points in the first area and then do the whole wheel spinning thing later on (and yes you have to, there is no point playing an mmo if you are just going to slack off and let your character become less than it could have been) just ruined all the fun.
Guess I might as well throw my opinion up in this.
One of the two things that killed it for me was the controls. I felt like I was fighting the controls at every turn, a lot of things could be more streamlined and simpler to use. The other thing I really didn't like was the over abundance of skills, I like freedom but I also like a few limits as well. It's really too bad because I rarely get in to classless games such as this.
Unless i'm mistaken Fallen Earth isn't doing that well which really suprises me. I haven't actually played it but from what I'm reading it seems EXCACTLY what 50% of the threads on here are asking for.
-No classes, you can make your character how you like it.
-A very large sandbox type world to explore.
-An innovative crafting system which also means a more player orientated economy.
-Not endless amount of grind.
-Skill based unlike the "Click a button to shoot" type gameplay.
It's everything you constantly ask for, I don't get it, unless I have misunderstood something?
I tried it becouse it looked soooo good but there are 2 things I couldnt take:
-Everything is so rusty and dirty, I know is post apocaliptic and all that and the game is really good designed, just I dont like this design.
-Lack of player housing, If I dont hva e a house in game I dont feel attached to it. And no, I can't "act like this or that place is my home". I want in game real mechanic of buying land, building the house, buy furniture, earn trophys and all that.
So, thats why I'm not playing Fallen Earth right now.
They are adding fast travel and weather affects next patch...which will be going to the test servers any day....
The weather I could care less about, and imagine 90% of the playerbase would agree, the fast travel they are adding is extremely limited and will still entail way too much travel to meetup with friends/clanmates.
The weather is gonna be cool and some of us care , you seem to be very negative about FE alot here and the FE fourms , do you even play it anymore or do you come here to troll and FE forums..
Almost every post from you is negative I wonder why that is... troll much.. You seem to be a FE hater if you hate it so much please go away and be gone for good so the rest of us can enjoy really..
I just don't understand why people have to hate so much. If you dislike something thats your opinion and thats fine but your negativity grows old on both forums ..
To gabby air, there is to much to list that has been done since release..... the game is like night and day since beta.. yes there is some problems and all games do including WOW...
But as I said the game didn;t sound for you and hey thats your right but some of the info as far as my opinion goes and the others that like it think differently... so Patch notes is a mile long so there is alot more than 2 things you named i,m sorry to say ...
Originally posted by Wizardry Originally posted by kevin_123 I don't get it. Unless i'm mistaken Fallen Earth isn't doing that well which really suprises me. I haven't actually played it but from what I'm reading it seems EXCACTLY what 50% of the threads on here are asking for. -No classes, you can make your character how you like it. -A very large sandbox type world to explore. -An innovative crafting system which also means a more player orientated economy. -Not endless amount of grind. -Skill based unlike the "Click a button to shoot" type gameplay. It's everything you constantly ask for, I don't get it, unless I have misunderstood something?
No classes is a lazy design,i have said that about any game that uses that system. A very large world to explore is true,but there is not much exploring when 90% of that world is barren empty land. Not sure who said the crafting system is innovative,it is nothing of the sort.Crafting has taken the same simple design as many other games,only ruined it by making it unrealistic,because you can actually craft while you are not crafting.By that i mean,you can go off fighting while some magical person inside the game is crafting for you lol,sad really that they chose such a cheap design for crafting,more like a LAZY design which,seems to match the lazy no class design and the lazy empty world design. So there is three things right there that point to a rushed hap hazard effort.It takes time to create a good crafting system,it takes tiem and effort to fill in a large world with action,models,mobs,animations ect ect,it takes a heck of a lot of time to create a class system,many more months than one that has no classes. I am not sure what you call an endless grind,i have never seen a game with endless grind,you are either playing a game you enjoy or you are not,if you call it a grind,then it is obviously not your game.A perfect example would be to say hockey is boring because it is an endless grind of trying to score or an endless grind of shooting pucks,again it is as simple as ,you either like it or you don't. Skill based is a VERY loose term thrown around on these forums .Skill would have a much broader definition than just aim and click would it not?FE actually fails in this department of game design,this aim and click is about all it achieves from the definition of skill. For me personally[yes i actually bought the game ,no free trial here]it looked cheaply designed,it had the feel in every aspect of a small time developer.
I completely disagree that skill systems are lazy design. It's class systems that are the easy road, rock/paper/scissors, old simple-minded easy to balance these are what lazy "devs" love. They don't want to try and deal with any kind of skill based systems.
It's everything you constantly ask for, I don't get it, unless I have misunderstood something?
Short answer:What people CLAIM to want on MMORPG.com, and what the majority of gamers want (and, for that matter, what MMORPG posters actually pay for) are completely disconnected. MMORPG.com has a highly self-selected user base, which reacts with extreme hostility to any apostates or heretics (defined as "Anyone who admits to enjoying any game still in business with a player base of over 100K"), which only reinforces the self selection. When actually presented with a game that meets all, or nearly all, of their demands, they'll come up with some reason why it isn't perfect.
I played FE actively for the demo period, and I really enjoyed it. The reason I didn't endup subbing, though, was that as I studied the skill system, it became evident that everyone could do everything. There was little point in my being a crafter when everyone was, or could be, 95% self sufficient, with the sacrifices needed to be better at combat than crafting, or vice versa, being very minor. Otherwise, I liked it, despite it being very rough in places... but given the small team/budget, the roughness was more than forgivable.
if someone actually made a new UO or SWG it would do well. Its not like 10 years ago is ancient past, and its not like technology was preventing game developers to have things like fast travel and 'questgrinding' and such, things were like the way they were for game design, it worked then and it can work now.
The problem is that developers always try to go half way, and end up making a game that nobody likes.
An example again looking at fallen earth. Its a huge world and it takes a while to get places. That can be fun because it makes the world feel vast and full of possibility. What can make it not fun is if you are then required by the game system to go to all those different places to get quests...
A vast world where it takes time for you to get from place to place should be built around the idea that you will not actually be trying to go to every location, but rather making your own path through the game.
Its not the distances in FE that make it bad its the fact that you are constantly encouraged to move between locations instead of settle down in one spot for a while and play there. You are encouraged to quickly rush through whatever quests there are, then move on... thats an attribute of new style mmos and of course that works better with small liniar worlds full of fast travel and short distances.
The difference is simple design focus. Old mmos were designed around the world, making a world for you to exist in. New mmos are designed around solo questgrinding to endgame raids.
In FE we have an mmo that tried to make a world, but their stupid character progression system and inclusion of things from new style mmos that really do not work in a vast game world just ruined it.
Take FE and give it a simple class based system with character progression based souly around your exp level, and it would be a decent game.
I wonder how many people here who like to talk of the "huge worlds" of UO and SWG actually played either game?
The world of UO was *tiny*, and it was linked by moongates and more importantly by runes. No one travelled; you teleported everywhere. (Including insider other people's locked dwellings due to many exploits which took months to fix.)
The SWG worlds were, indeed, huge, but also empty and pointless. Every city on every planet was virtually the same (save for building styles). Only a tiny handful of hand-crafted locations existed (the palace on Naboo, for example), but other than looking at them, there was no reason to go to them -- they were empty or, at best, had very broken quest chains which led to pointless "rewards". (You could do a chain of quests -- all pretty much "Go to X, hope your target spawns like its supposed to, come back" -- for Jabba, and you'd get, as a reward, a fishing pole. One which was no better than the one any newbie crafter could make.) A thousand square miles where each is the same as any other square mile is, basically, one square mile. There were plenty of "dungeons" in SWG, various bunkers and such, but at least when I played (launch to when they destroyed the game by handing out holocrons and making everyone abandon their profession to macro-grind for Jedi), no one went to them since you could get better loot/XP just running random missions from mission terminals.
Man, if I had the backward facing rose colored glasses concession for MMORPG.com, I'd be a millionaire.
It is certainly possible, technically, to build a large-scale, well-developed, snadbox/skill system game, which actually had content and didn't try to claim that barren sameness was to allow "user generated content" (the equivalent of going to a restaraunt and having them hand you a small electric skillet and inform you that the supermarket is across the street, feel free to cook what you like but eat it here, instead of at home), but it would cost as much to do this as to do a WOW or a KOTOR, and the audience, frankly, isn't there. I'd *love* a game like that, but I also know it won't happen under today's market conditions.
Fallen Earth is probably the closest thing to the MMORPG ideal[1], and if they ever fix the skill system so that there's more a rock-paper-scissors where your skill choices MATTER and there's a reason to be a mostly-dedicated crafter (because 95% of the player base can't make 95% of the items they need themselves), I'll be subbing happily.
[1]Other than EVE, and that also isn't nearly as popular as it should be here, and, again, we see a lot of the same style of excuses... it isn't PERFECT, according to some arbitrary and unreachable standard of perfection, and so it's not good enough. I think the bulk of people here don't really WANT to play an MMO; they want to whine about how no one is spending 150 million dollars to make an MMO just for them. (And if anyone did, they'd complain that it sucked because not enough people were playing it.)
I wonder how many people here who like to talk of the "huge worlds" of UO and SWG actually played either game?
The world of UO was *tiny*, and it was linked by moongates and more importantly by runes. No one travelled; you teleported everywhere. (Including insider other people's locked dwellings due to many exploits which took months to fix.)
The SWG worlds were, indeed, huge, but also empty and pointless. Every city on every planet was virtually the same (save for building styles). Only a tiny handful of hand-crafted locations existed (the palace on Naboo, for example), but other than looking at them, there was no reason to go to them -- they were empty or, at best, had very broken quest chains which led to pointless "rewards". (You could do a chain of quests -- all pretty much "Go to X, hope your target spawns like its supposed to, come back" -- for Jabba, and you'd get, as a reward, a fishing pole. One which was no better than the one any newbie crafter could make.) A thousand square miles where each is the same as any other square mile is, basically, one square mile. There were plenty of "dungeons" in SWG, various bunkers and such, but at least when I played (launch to when they destroyed the game by handing out holocrons and making everyone abandon their profession to macro-grind for Jedi), no one went to them since you could get better loot/XP just running random missions from mission terminals.
Man, if I had the backward facing rose colored glasses concession for MMORPG.com, I'd be a millionaire.
So very true.
Played UO since Beta and SWG since day one and I have never seen anyone post something more accurate. Kudos
Originally posted by sanskrit Originally posted by Darkcrystal
They are adding fast travel and weather affects next patch...which will be going to the test servers any day....
The weather I could care less about, and imagine 90% of the playerbase would agree, the fast travel they are adding is extremely limited and will still entail way too much travel to meetup with friends/clanmates.
This.
I enjoy exploring, but once you have done it once or twice or three times, you have done it. Though I do not like the instanced nature of it, Guild Wars did this well, requiring travel slow at first and then allowing instant travel gave you an opportunity to explore while still functionally allowing you to play with clan mates.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
size does not always have to relate to physical size. An example would be DAoC, which had quite small zones, but their layout made them feel much bigger than they were. The point is in modern mmos you simply go from quest location to quest location and miss the rest of the world, they not only have less breadth but also less depth.
But that is just one aspect, the point is making the world feel like a place and not just a more detailed view of the minimap.
Earlier today i was thinking about a game i used to play.
Rose colored glasses?
I log on to an mmo in 1999
I pass through my current towns entrance area and see players promoting themselves for the upcoming political elections
I walk further, past the newbie area and see older players mentoring new players
I go out of town and travel a ways to my chosen deities temple where a player priest is holding mass in front of a group of other players.
It does not occur to me how amazing it is that these things are not simply roleplaying, but all have actual mechanical purposes and links with the games system. They all provide character progression, exp, items, other benefits, all seamlessly integrated into the game. This is in effect a large part of how you play the game.
I take this all for granted.
I log into a game in 2009, see people rushing their alts via solo power quest grinding, to an endgame where they spend their time waiting for their guild to raid an instance, and leveling new alts.
Dont even try to say its nostalgia =/ you simply can not do the things you used to. Its not about being a world anymore.
FE had the feeling of 'a world' to me. It felt an aweful lot like the early mmos of the current era of mmos (which started with eq). It still had a good bit of freedom and depth, not as much as the previous era, but there was still some of it there.
Though we seem to agree FE would be an amazing game if not for their stupid skill system.
Earlier today i was thinking about a game i used to play.
Rose colored glasses?
I log on to an mmo in 1999
I pass through my current towns entrance area and see players promoting themselves for the upcoming political elections
I walk further, past the newbie area and see older players mentoring new players
I go out of town and travel a ways to my chosen deities temple where a player priest is holding mass in front of a group of other players.
It does not occur to me how amazing it is that these things are not simply roleplaying, but all have actual mechanical purposes and links with the games system. They all provide character progression, exp, items, other benefits, all seamlessly integrated into the game. This is in effect a large part of how you play the game.
I take this all for granted.
I log into a game in 2009, see people rushing their alts via solo power quest grinding, to an endgame where they spend their time waiting for their guild to raid an instance, and leveling new alts.
Dont even try to say its nostalgia =/ you simply can not do the things you used to. Its not about being a world anymore.
FE had the feeling of 'a world' to me. It felt an aweful lot like the early mmos of the current era of mmos (which started with eq). It still had a good bit of freedom and depth, not as much as the previous era, but there was still some of it there.
Though we seem to agree FE would be an amazing game if not for their stupid skill system.
Would your 1999 game be Dragon...quest? DragonRealms? DragonSomething? Text-based game from the folks who made Gemstone? 'Cause it sounds like it. I played that for a while in 1998 when I got sick of dealing with the exploits/bugs in UO.
If not, i'm curious what this unnamed game is.
I don't want to write more until I confirm what game you're thinking of.
You are also making the same mistake many people here make, confusing change in community with change in game design. The games didn't change the gamers; the GAMERS CHANGED THE GAMES. As MMO gaming stopped being a fring hobby of nerds and became a mass market thing, the games changed to meet the needs and demands of their audience. You are blaming designers for being good at their job -- designing games the majority of people with money to spend will spend money to play. Adam Smith pwns j00, n00b.
Want in-depth world-rich sandbox games? Tale in the Desert. Want free-for-all mad loot PVP? EVE Online. Want no-limits skill-based systems? Fallen Earth, Darkfall, Dawntide when/if it comes up. Want all of this with the quality, polish, depth, and player base of WOW? Rotsa ruck, fella. (Caveat: EVE is a well-polished, deep, professional game on every level -- but it rewards REAL player skill, not twitch reflexes, and people who just want to long on and frag n00bs, which is what 95% of the MMORPG population means when they say they want an "open world sandbox game", don't like it. EVE is a stately, slow-paced, graceful game -- it's a string quartet, when what most gamers really want is thrash metal.)
The MMORPG zeitgeist wants a 200 million dollar game that will attract 50-75K players -- who probably also don't want to be a monthly fee or have an item shop.
At this point, to quote Babylon 5, Fallen Earth is your last, best, hope for a game like what the MMORPG Collective *claims* to want. It's rough and imperfect, but if it's supported, it has a decent chance. If you won't support anything unless it's absolutely perfect, be prepared for a life of misery, depression, and frustration.
I'd rather play a GOOD game than sit around and whine because I can't find a GREAT game.
Comments
i lost nothing, but i gained an extra 15 bucks month and some more harddrive space.
IN THE FACE!
and it sounds like we are the better for it
may i point you to http://hko.aeriagames.com/download
might be more for you
I give you a D plus for impressive trolling. LOL
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I just bought the game a few days ago and have played a few hours, now before you say that's not enough, I played two months in beta and was very active. From what i've seen so far many glaring issues still remain and in my opinion are the reason the game isn't doing too good:
-Graphics are dull, not bad but very boring. Technically the graphics are fairly well done but the world as a whole is very dull looking and not very interesting to see. "Its the apocalypse, what do you expect?" same i saw in fallout or borderlands, varied and inspiring locations.
-Combat is very poorly executed, people say its skill based and not "button smashing" but last time i checked my hot bar was filled with mutations. The FPS side has very clunky controls combined with weird AI which leads to a very bad experience. Another thing is that due to the bad combat you can die quite quick especially at lower lvls and are forced to go through "dungeons" all over killing all the mobs again to get to where you were.
-Isn't much to do, "its a sandbox!" well then where are the tools for me to create my own content? Besides having your own goals which are more or so the same things you were doing throughout the game it's the same old stuff. Crafting is all their seems to be at end game as the pvp is quite pointless from what i hear.
-Too much focus on quest grinding, Quests are well written but its the same old kill x stuff and you have to grind a ton of AP missions if you really wanna be good. The advancement here is no more different that wow, complete all missions in one town then move to the next.
-Yes having a classless system is good but it seems many have to sacrifice combat for crafting and with a game with such a big emphasis on crafting i think that's pretty stupid. This also leads to the fact that their isn't much help in terms of builds and stats and if you screw up you just to have to make a new character.
I believe these are the main problems with the game, the game just doesn't know what it wants to be from themepark progression to no end game to make it sandboxy leaves a lot to be desired from both sides and leaves not many happy. Although i bought the game, i don't think i would even be finishing my free 30 days because the game seems too broken and many issues which made me leave at release still remain unfixed.
I see the graphics issue brought up repeatedly, but don't put much weight there. The most successful MMOs are all behind the curve graphically. Tired of seeing FPSers and solo CRPG game players try to transition into MMOs and always trotting the graphics issue out. Frankly, IMO, graphical sophistication has been waaay overemphasized by the gaming industry over the last 10 years, to the point that the market is full of pretty games that are weak at their core as coherent, fun games. This is particularly true of the MMO genre. FE is fine graphically IMO. Character appearance customization is lacking in comparison to alternatives, true enough.
I also think the combat system is just fine, walking the tightrope between complexity and speed handily IMO.
FE is too "clicky," "timesinky" and repetitive, and I think many of the graphics and general gameplay complaints stem from this. As other posters point out, players find themselves killing mobs that look exactly the same, and often having to kill those same mobs over and over again in dungeons where the respawn rate is WAY too high and not enough resources have been spent in at least reskinning the mobs in different areas.
Players find themselves killing the nth iteration of "creepers," for example, an amusing and ironic name for oldtime gamers, but wears thin quickly, and continues to wear thin as high level players find themselves killing rats, cockroaches and coyotes ad infinitum. Humanoid mobs are little better, with some zones packed to the brim with varying levels of "Devil's Own," "Shiva's favored," and particularly Judges. The final insult is that upon reaching max level, players must grind judges, hundreds and thousands of them, to attain favored status with their chosen faction.
The mission system is uniform to the point of tedium. 1) gather missions at central hub 2) go out a significant distance from the hub to complete the mission, sometimes spending 80% or more in travel time as opposed to time spent actually DOING the missions, 3) RETURN to the mission giver for the next step of the mission, which all too often involves going right back to the same place as the previous step and killing the EXACT SAME mobs one just killed.
Moreover, someone at Icarus thinks that raw transportation obstacles are equivalent to "challenge" or "difficulty," when nothing could be further from the truth in a game where so much time is spent travelling. Getting in and out of towns, navigating around on the various mounts and vehicles, is often painfully annoying due to too many obstacles in roads, everything from boulders in main thoroughfares to tent ropes, to windy mazelike paths. Real live humanoids do not live or travel in such environments, they clear paths, transportation in main hubs should be much easier. Examples of "good" town design include St. Sebastians and Picus Ridge, bad include Fracture and Zanesville, atrociously bad include Barret Manor, Blaine and New Flagstaff. Most towns fall somewhere between "bad" and "atrocious" in terms of navigational realism.
They have dragged their feet in getting a fast travel system ingame. Clans find their members spread out 20-40 minutes apart, as do players on friendslists. No wonder the game has not a shred of the cooperation and teaming mentality necessary to endgame MMO health. It trains players to be lone wolves from the get-go because it takes a significant portion of precious time just getting to ones teammates or friends.
The complexity of the crafting system is way overdone, one can find oneself inventorying FIVE different grades of several of EIGHT different kinds of cloth that fit into a system with hundreds of base components, ALL with several different grades. Simultaneously, someone thought it would be a good idea to "split" storage into several different vaults, usually all inaccessible at the same time. I would wager that no serious player doesn't have at least one "mule" character merely for storage. Alternative storage offered in mounts stored in garages can be helpful, but because there is no standard of where the garages are located with respect to specific towns, the player has to either note or remember where the hell the gas station is near such and such town.
But the final nail, what has caused me to unsubscribe, is the hideously terrible social community at the top end of the game. Top clans seek to use any amount of dev toadying to preserve their "beta guild" advantages, whine for help for their characters, openly nerf-call, e-peen constantly about PvP, doing extreme damage to the community through their self-serving actions ingame and on the forums as opposed to serving as examples and promoting a healthy social environment. So bad is it, that I will be avoiding games altogether if I see certain FE clan names in a game from beta going forward. Have never seen worse in an MMO, and have seen pretty bad. Was amazed to find out that the chief annoyance clan in the game is actually full of older gamers, ones whom one would expect to act more maturely. Was doubly amazed, and still amazed that the dev team hasn't seen through these annoying, wonky yahoos as being the self-interested children that they are, and hadn't stopped listening to their self-interested "feedback" long ago. Just because someone is willing to set up a podcast for your game and do lots of testing doesn't mean they are a "friend" of it. Most of the high end clans take the game WAY too seriously and need some other alternate forms of entertainment desperately.
FE has lots of potential, and some obviously intelligent designers doing lots of the right things at the helm. It is a game I would like to go back to one day, as it is so hard to find legitimate niche games in the orc and elf world of MMOs.
I to was in clsoed beta and it has come along ways since then, so I doubt you played long enough, far as teh graphics, you really didn't look very good, because with a good card, it looks amazing, best looking sunset in an MMO period...
Yes there is a few problems with the game but all games do, its matter of what you like or will put up with, but FE is one of few games I have seen go far fast with new content and they are adding group content very soon.. as they did state since beta though would do it...
But people want everything now, and you say you can't be a crafter and say something combat spec?? this is incorrect coming from a player who started in closed beta and plays now.. I do it now and I do just fine.. I have no problems crafting and being pistol spec and even owning in pvp so I dunno where you go this info, i'm guessing FE was not for you at all.
Sorry its not maybe fantasy is more your style as you seem to dislike FPS style and the world the type of game its in, you seem to like cartoony and shuney stuff that I think would be more your thing, you may wanna wait for tera online as it would be your style of game.
Tera will be good i,m sure not bashing it just saying , as you tend to bash FE about personal dislikes not the games fault, at all its what doesnt fit your game style nothing wrong with that just saying from what I can tell from your post.
FE is not for everyone but If your sick of elfs and orc and love FPS and post app settting then FE will be for you is it perfect nope, but one of the better MMO's out there that do not cater to whiners and the custmer support has one of the best I ahve seen in any game hands down, community is one of the best hands down.
The game has so much more potienal its sick and its coming month by month.. can't wait to see more.. vegas will be in the game soon, for those that loved fallout ...so it wont just be in the so called depressing area..
Housing will be here soon as well, I play many MMO's to date and I will say this is my favorite and I have seen it change so much more than any MMO from release to start and for the good, some bad, but not all. also when peopel say no respecs that is not true I just got one last patch...So the game does offer free repsecs at times, its not like WOW where you can ch
ange specs like I do my underware every second of the day. Which makes games easy mode...
Anyhow I wasn't looking to flame anyone just clearfy what is wrong with certain games over people have a good one and enjoy fallen earth or what else you may play.
PS To those on a trial I suggest you play the whole month to really know what the game is about some games you know off the bat, but I know many people who left and came back wishing they never felt.. The game is far from dead , I log on to 20-30 people a day on in my guild alone and many more in chat so, its far from dead...
Love the game but what killed it for me was the factions.As long as you can spin the wheel factions mean squat, i know a little detail but id still be playing if they changed that.
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
The weather I could care less about, and imagine 90% of the playerbase would agree, the fast travel they are adding is extremely limited and will still entail way too much travel to meetup with friends/clanmates.
No classes is a lazy design,i have said that about any game that uses that system.
A very large world to explore is true,but there is not much exploring when 90% of that world is barren empty land.
Not sure who said the crafting system is innovative,it is nothing of the sort.Crafting has taken the same simple design as many other games,only ruined it by making it unrealistic,because you can actually craft while you are not crafting.By that i mean,you can go off fighting while some magical person inside the game is crafting for you lol,sad really that they chose such a cheap design for crafting,more like a LAZY design which,seems to match the lazy no class design and the lazy empty world design.
So there is three things right there that point to a rushed hap hazard effort.It takes time to create a good crafting system,it takes tiem and effort to fill in a large world with action,models,mobs,animations ect ect,it takes a heck of a lot of time to create a class system,many more months than one that has no classes.
I am not sure what you call an endless grind,i have never seen a game with endless grind,you are either playing a game you enjoy or you are not,if you call it a grind,then it is obviously not your game.A perfect example would be to say hockey is boring because it is an endless grind of trying to score or an endless grind of shooting pucks,again it is as simple as ,you either like it or you don't.
Skill based is a VERY loose term thrown around on these forums .Skill would have a much broader definition than just aim and click would it not?FE actually fails in this department of game design,this aim and click is about all it achieves from the definition of skill.
For me personally[yes i actually bought the game ,no free trial here]it looked cheaply designed,it had the feel in every aspect of a small time developer.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
But what absolutely killed it for me, was i did not like the entire character development system, i hated having to print out a list of quests and run all around the different towns to do the ones that rewarded points.
If points were only given based off of exp then it would have been perfect, you could make your way through the world using a unique path, but having to always be obsessing over the different points in the first area and then do the whole wheel spinning thing later on (and yes you have to, there is no point playing an mmo if you are just going to slack off and let your character become less than it could have been) just ruined all the fun.
Guess I might as well throw my opinion up in this.
One of the two things that killed it for me was the controls. I felt like I was fighting the controls at every turn, a lot of things could be more streamlined and simpler to use. The other thing I really didn't like was the over abundance of skills, I like freedom but I also like a few limits as well. It's really too bad because I rarely get in to classless games such as this.
I tried it becouse it looked soooo good but there are 2 things I couldnt take:
-Everything is so rusty and dirty, I know is post apocaliptic and all that and the game is really good designed, just I dont like this design.
-Lack of player housing, If I dont hva e a house in game I dont feel attached to it. And no, I can't "act like this or that place is my home". I want in game real mechanic of buying land, building the house, buy furniture, earn trophys and all that.
So, thats why I'm not playing Fallen Earth right now.
Why isn't doing amazing?
Because under the initial guise of a sandbox lurks a bog standard WoW style grinder with robust and pointless crafting...
I'll wait for Fallout MMO
The weather is gonna be cool and some of us care , you seem to be very negative about FE alot here and the FE fourms , do you even play it anymore or do you come here to troll and FE forums..
Almost every post from you is negative I wonder why that is... troll much.. You seem to be a FE hater if you hate it so much please go away and be gone for good so the rest of us can enjoy really..
I just don't understand why people have to hate so much. If you dislike something thats your opinion and thats fine but your negativity grows old on both forums ..
To gabby air, there is to much to list that has been done since release..... the game is like night and day since beta.. yes there is some problems and all games do including WOW...
But as I said the game didn;t sound for you and hey thats your right but some of the info as far as my opinion goes and the others that like it think differently... so Patch notes is a mile long so there is alot more than 2 things you named i,m sorry to say ...
Anyways Good luck on your next game ..
A very large world to explore is true,but there is not much exploring when 90% of that world is barren empty land.
Not sure who said the crafting system is innovative,it is nothing of the sort.Crafting has taken the same simple design as many other games,only ruined it by making it unrealistic,because you can actually craft while you are not crafting.By that i mean,you can go off fighting while some magical person inside the game is crafting for you lol,sad really that they chose such a cheap design for crafting,more like a LAZY design which,seems to match the lazy no class design and the lazy empty world design.
So there is three things right there that point to a rushed hap hazard effort.It takes time to create a good crafting system,it takes tiem and effort to fill in a large world with action,models,mobs,animations ect ect,it takes a heck of a lot of time to create a class system,many more months than one that has no classes.
I am not sure what you call an endless grind,i have never seen a game with endless grind,you are either playing a game you enjoy or you are not,if you call it a grind,then it is obviously not your game.A perfect example would be to say hockey is boring because it is an endless grind of trying to score or an endless grind of shooting pucks,again it is as simple as ,you either like it or you don't.
Skill based is a VERY loose term thrown around on these forums .Skill would have a much broader definition than just aim and click would it not?FE actually fails in this department of game design,this aim and click is about all it achieves from the definition of skill.
For me personally[yes i actually bought the game ,no free trial here]it looked cheaply designed,it had the feel in every aspect of a small time developer.
I completely disagree that skill systems are lazy design. It's class systems that are the easy road, rock/paper/scissors, old simple-minded easy to balance these are what lazy "devs" love. They don't want to try and deal with any kind of skill based systems.
Short answer:What people CLAIM to want on MMORPG.com, and what the majority of gamers want (and, for that matter, what MMORPG posters actually pay for) are completely disconnected. MMORPG.com has a highly self-selected user base, which reacts with extreme hostility to any apostates or heretics (defined as "Anyone who admits to enjoying any game still in business with a player base of over 100K"), which only reinforces the self selection. When actually presented with a game that meets all, or nearly all, of their demands, they'll come up with some reason why it isn't perfect.
I played FE actively for the demo period, and I really enjoyed it. The reason I didn't endup subbing, though, was that as I studied the skill system, it became evident that everyone could do everything. There was little point in my being a crafter when everyone was, or could be, 95% self sufficient, with the sacrifices needed to be better at combat than crafting, or vice versa, being very minor. Otherwise, I liked it, despite it being very rough in places... but given the small team/budget, the roughness was more than forgivable.
Ding!
Got it in one!
if someone actually made a new UO or SWG it would do well. Its not like 10 years ago is ancient past, and its not like technology was preventing game developers to have things like fast travel and 'questgrinding' and such, things were like the way they were for game design, it worked then and it can work now.
The problem is that developers always try to go half way, and end up making a game that nobody likes.
An example again looking at fallen earth. Its a huge world and it takes a while to get places. That can be fun because it makes the world feel vast and full of possibility. What can make it not fun is if you are then required by the game system to go to all those different places to get quests...
A vast world where it takes time for you to get from place to place should be built around the idea that you will not actually be trying to go to every location, but rather making your own path through the game.
Its not the distances in FE that make it bad its the fact that you are constantly encouraged to move between locations instead of settle down in one spot for a while and play there. You are encouraged to quickly rush through whatever quests there are, then move on... thats an attribute of new style mmos and of course that works better with small liniar worlds full of fast travel and short distances.
The difference is simple design focus. Old mmos were designed around the world, making a world for you to exist in. New mmos are designed around solo questgrinding to endgame raids.
In FE we have an mmo that tried to make a world, but their stupid character progression system and inclusion of things from new style mmos that really do not work in a vast game world just ruined it.
Take FE and give it a simple class based system with character progression based souly around your exp level, and it would be a decent game.
I wonder how many people here who like to talk of the "huge worlds" of UO and SWG actually played either game?
The world of UO was *tiny*, and it was linked by moongates and more importantly by runes. No one travelled; you teleported everywhere. (Including insider other people's locked dwellings due to many exploits which took months to fix.)
The SWG worlds were, indeed, huge, but also empty and pointless. Every city on every planet was virtually the same (save for building styles). Only a tiny handful of hand-crafted locations existed (the palace on Naboo, for example), but other than looking at them, there was no reason to go to them -- they were empty or, at best, had very broken quest chains which led to pointless "rewards". (You could do a chain of quests -- all pretty much "Go to X, hope your target spawns like its supposed to, come back" -- for Jabba, and you'd get, as a reward, a fishing pole. One which was no better than the one any newbie crafter could make.) A thousand square miles where each is the same as any other square mile is, basically, one square mile. There were plenty of "dungeons" in SWG, various bunkers and such, but at least when I played (launch to when they destroyed the game by handing out holocrons and making everyone abandon their profession to macro-grind for Jedi), no one went to them since you could get better loot/XP just running random missions from mission terminals.
Man, if I had the backward facing rose colored glasses concession for MMORPG.com, I'd be a millionaire.
It is certainly possible, technically, to build a large-scale, well-developed, snadbox/skill system game, which actually had content and didn't try to claim that barren sameness was to allow "user generated content" (the equivalent of going to a restaraunt and having them hand you a small electric skillet and inform you that the supermarket is across the street, feel free to cook what you like but eat it here, instead of at home), but it would cost as much to do this as to do a WOW or a KOTOR, and the audience, frankly, isn't there. I'd *love* a game like that, but I also know it won't happen under today's market conditions.
Fallen Earth is probably the closest thing to the MMORPG ideal[1], and if they ever fix the skill system so that there's more a rock-paper-scissors where your skill choices MATTER and there's a reason to be a mostly-dedicated crafter (because 95% of the player base can't make 95% of the items they need themselves), I'll be subbing happily.
[1]Other than EVE, and that also isn't nearly as popular as it should be here, and, again, we see a lot of the same style of excuses... it isn't PERFECT, according to some arbitrary and unreachable standard of perfection, and so it's not good enough. I think the bulk of people here don't really WANT to play an MMO; they want to whine about how no one is spending 150 million dollars to make an MMO just for them. (And if anyone did, they'd complain that it sucked because not enough people were playing it.)
So very true.
Played UO since Beta and SWG since day one and I have never seen anyone post something more accurate. Kudos
The weather I could care less about, and imagine 90% of the playerbase would agree, the fast travel they are adding is extremely limited and will still entail way too much travel to meetup with friends/clanmates.
This.
I enjoy exploring, but once you have done it once or twice or three times, you have done it. Though I do not like the instanced nature of it, Guild Wars did this well, requiring travel slow at first and then allowing instant travel gave you an opportunity to explore while still functionally allowing you to play with clan mates.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
size does not always have to relate to physical size. An example would be DAoC, which had quite small zones, but their layout made them feel much bigger than they were. The point is in modern mmos you simply go from quest location to quest location and miss the rest of the world, they not only have less breadth but also less depth.
But that is just one aspect, the point is making the world feel like a place and not just a more detailed view of the minimap.
Earlier today i was thinking about a game i used to play.
Rose colored glasses?
I log on to an mmo in 1999
I pass through my current towns entrance area and see players promoting themselves for the upcoming political elections
I walk further, past the newbie area and see older players mentoring new players
I go out of town and travel a ways to my chosen deities temple where a player priest is holding mass in front of a group of other players.
It does not occur to me how amazing it is that these things are not simply roleplaying, but all have actual mechanical purposes and links with the games system. They all provide character progression, exp, items, other benefits, all seamlessly integrated into the game. This is in effect a large part of how you play the game.
I take this all for granted.
I log into a game in 2009, see people rushing their alts via solo power quest grinding, to an endgame where they spend their time waiting for their guild to raid an instance, and leveling new alts.
Dont even try to say its nostalgia =/ you simply can not do the things you used to. Its not about being a world anymore.
FE had the feeling of 'a world' to me. It felt an aweful lot like the early mmos of the current era of mmos (which started with eq). It still had a good bit of freedom and depth, not as much as the previous era, but there was still some of it there.
Though we seem to agree FE would be an amazing game if not for their stupid skill system.
Would your 1999 game be Dragon...quest? DragonRealms? DragonSomething? Text-based game from the folks who made Gemstone? 'Cause it sounds like it. I played that for a while in 1998 when I got sick of dealing with the exploits/bugs in UO.
If not, i'm curious what this unnamed game is.
I don't want to write more until I confirm what game you're thinking of.
You are also making the same mistake many people here make, confusing change in community with change in game design. The games didn't change the gamers; the GAMERS CHANGED THE GAMES. As MMO gaming stopped being a fring hobby of nerds and became a mass market thing, the games changed to meet the needs and demands of their audience. You are blaming designers for being good at their job -- designing games the majority of people with money to spend will spend money to play. Adam Smith pwns j00, n00b.
Want in-depth world-rich sandbox games? Tale in the Desert. Want free-for-all mad loot PVP? EVE Online. Want no-limits skill-based systems? Fallen Earth, Darkfall, Dawntide when/if it comes up. Want all of this with the quality, polish, depth, and player base of WOW? Rotsa ruck, fella. (Caveat: EVE is a well-polished, deep, professional game on every level -- but it rewards REAL player skill, not twitch reflexes, and people who just want to long on and frag n00bs, which is what 95% of the MMORPG population means when they say they want an "open world sandbox game", don't like it. EVE is a stately, slow-paced, graceful game -- it's a string quartet, when what most gamers really want is thrash metal.)
The MMORPG zeitgeist wants a 200 million dollar game that will attract 50-75K players -- who probably also don't want to be a monthly fee or have an item shop.
At this point, to quote Babylon 5, Fallen Earth is your last, best, hope for a game like what the MMORPG Collective *claims* to want. It's rough and imperfect, but if it's supported, it has a decent chance. If you won't support anything unless it's absolutely perfect, be prepared for a life of misery, depression, and frustration.
I'd rather play a GOOD game than sit around and whine because I can't find a GREAT game.