I am actually playing on test trying out the new starting areas in the new Halas that will be in next LU. The new Halas newbie area is actually their best try ever in explaining the game for new players, it is actually pretty good. The new travel simplifications with a map with level ranges for the zone are nice too, and all travel now looks the same. The Halas newbie area even has a trainer for harvesting and a pretty good explanation of basic tradeskilling and the vital stats for each class and how you increase your stats (by equipment that has stats vital for your class! whee, an explanation that never been in game). It may actually be the first time in a while when you may be able to pick up the game and actually learn a lot of it just by following the tutorials. And yes New Halas is MUCH better than Gorowyn from a design point of wiev (as in finding things like the bank).
I never tried EQ2 and I was wondering how it is like for new players ? What is the community like ? If people can share their experiences it would be great.
I played EQ2 for a few yrs, played EQ since beta over 10yrs ago and honestly the better game is EQ not EQ2 for new players.
If your looking for a great experience give EQ a try first you will find it is easier to play as a newer player while giving you the choice of having one the greatest artificial intelligent npc mercenaries I have ever seen in a game. You can hire a mercenary in EQ and it will either be a healer or a tank fighter depending on which you hire, it then makes it so easy to play even if you can't find a group right away.
EQ2 is hard on new players, people rarely take time to help new people and the learning curves are quick in EQ2 but the enjoyment comes from playing with others. If your looking to do boss fights or dungeons then a group is a must as solo content for new players is very bland in EQ2. EQ2 community is to far progressed to help most new players unless you can get into a guild right away and get help, even then people hate new players cause they figure it is a waste of time for them. This however is just how most older game titles are with the community that focus on progression.
I am actually playing on test trying out the new starting areas in the new Halas that will be in next LU. The new Halas newbie area is actually their best try ever in explaining the game for new players, it is actually pretty good. The new travel simplifications with a map with level ranges for the zone are nice too, and all travel now looks the same. The Halas newbie area even has a trainer for harvesting and a pretty good explanation of basic tradeskilling and the vital stats for each class and how you increase your stats (by equipment that has stats vital for your class! whee, an explanation that never been in game). It may actually be the first time in a while when you may be able to pick up the game and actually learn a lot of it just by following the tutorials. And yes New Halas is MUCH better than Gorowyn from a design point of wiev (as in finding things like the bank).
Note: READ what the quest-givers tell you, it can be important. I saw in chat last night that some poor fool deleted that HUGE box that you get for completing the New Halas harvesting quest because he was staggering under the weight. The collections/harvesting quester flat out tells you to put it in the bank, only 10 feet away.
Its worth every dime you spend on it; Join a good guild (there are plenty who take low lvl and new players). I would recommend Crushbone or AB server. Just today i was running Black Burrows and Sewers with a full group. Lots of activity at low levels these days.
Originally posted by scuubeedoo How much was the download size for trial Viktor?
The trial client is actually relatively small in size. Once installed, the game will continue to download content while you are playing. This method is favored by many MMOs these days because it drastically shortens the time needed to get into the game and start playing.
I just started playing EQ2 in the last month as well, along with my girlfriend. We are both long-time EQ1 and WOW players. At first, the game was a bit daunting; there's just SO much to learn. The game doesn't hand-feed you everything like we were used to in WOW -- This became one of the buying points for us, actually.
The world is absolutely huge. The nice thing is, most of the zones are populated with other people (on Crushbone server). We've never encountered a zone where there are too many people or too few people. All-in-all we have had a very balanced and satisfying experience in the world.
Things we like most about the game, from a newbie perspective:
- Crafting. OMG, you actually have to "work" at it! It is interactive and not just a "make 10x <these items> to skill up". It is actually fun to craft!
- Exploration. You actually earn Alternate Experience for exploring the world! We are huge virtual game explorers, so this is a big perk for us.
- Class/race choices. Bar none, EQ2 has something for everyone. You will find something that you like. Some of the classes are the typical MMO classes, while some offer some differences to what you may be used to. Try a few!
- Auction house. Thank you for getting it right! It is so absolutely nice to not have to worry about servers going down and people minimum bidding your items, like was commonplace in WOW. Once your items are up, they are up. Need to reprice? Go ahead! The fees are all charged to the purchaser, not the seller. The AH design is very friendly and encouraging to newcomers.
- Stability. We've yet to encounter any server side lag, crashes, or extended maintenance with the servers; unlike the unknown/unexpected WOW weekly maintenance that could last for half a day (12 hours!).
- Content. There is more than enough content to keep you very busy for a very long time. One of the most amazing aspects of the game, for us, is that we can do totally different things in the game depending on how we feel that moment: Alternate Experience, Level Experience, or Crafting.
The trial client is actually relatively small in size. Once installed, the game will continue to download content while you are playing. This method is favored by many MMOs these days because it drastically shortens the time needed to get into the game and start playing.
I just started playing EQ2 in the last month as well, along with my girlfriend. We are both long-time EQ1 and WOW players. At first, the game was a bit daunting; there's just SO much to learn. The game doesn't hand-feed you everything like we were used to in WOW -- This became one of the buying points for us, actually.
The world is absolutely huge. The nice thing is, most of the zones are populated with other people (on Crushbone server). We've never encountered a zone where there are too many people or too few people. All-in-all we have had a very balanced and satisfying experience in the world.
Things we like most about the game, from a newbie perspective:
- Crafting. OMG, you actually have to "work" at it! It is interactive and not just a "make 10x to skill up". It is actually fun to craft!
- Exploration. You actually earn Alternate Experience for exploring the world! We are huge virtual game explorers, so this is a big perk for us.
- Class/race choices. Bar none, EQ2 has something for everyone. You will find something that you like. Some of the classes are the typical MMO classes, while some offer some differences to what you may be used to. Try a few!
- Auction house. Thank you for getting it right! It is so absolutely nice to not have to worry about servers going down and people minimum bidding your items, like was commonplace in WOW. Once your items are up, they are up. Need to reprice? Go ahead! The fees are all charged to the purchaser, not the seller. The AH design is very friendly and encouraging to newcomers.
- Stability. We've yet to encounter any server side lag, crashes, or extended maintenance with the servers; unlike the unknown/unexpected WOW weekly maintenance that could last for half a day (12 hours!).
- Content. There is more than enough content to keep you very busy for a very long time. One of the most amazing aspects of the game, for us, is that we can do totally different things in the game depending on how we feel that moment: Alternate Experience, Level Experience, or Crafting.
QFT
Good list of many of the reasons I prefer EQ2 to any other MMO. For all the bitching about SoE that goes on....there are some things that they certainly got RIGHT....at least for ME.
I never tried EQ2 and I was wondering how it is like for new players ? What is the community like ? If people can share their experiences it would be great.
Try it, since you cant go wrong. There'sa reason why EQII, LOTRO, etc. aren't cresting above 200k player-base, and limited numbers on-line anymore; there wasn't much lasting appeal for the majority that tried them.
For me, the PvE-centric nature of this and many a more static, theme-parkish mmorpg's has worn on me.
Originally posted by Cik_Asalin Originally posted by SaintViktor I never tried EQ2 and I was wondering how it is like for new players ? What is the community like ? If people can share their experiences it would be great.
Try it, since you cant go wrong. There'sa reason why EQII, LOTRO, etc. aren't cresting above 200k player-base, and limited numbers on-line anymore; there wasn't much lasting appeal for the majority that tried them.
For me, the PvE-centric nature of this and many a more static, theme-parkish mmorpg's has worn on me.
I would actually counter that standing on EQII subscription numbers.
According to the numbers I've been seeing, http://everquest2.com/serverstatus/ , during the normal play hours, I see servers usually running around 150k - 200k each. With over half a dozen servers in the US, I just cannot see them fielding less than the numbers provided; considering I never see a zone empty.
Try it, since you cant go wrong. There'sa reason why EQII, LOTRO, etc. aren't cresting above 200k player-base, and limited numbers on-line anymore; there wasn't much lasting appeal for the majority that tried them.
For me, the PvE-centric nature of this and many a more static, theme-parkish mmorpg's has worn on me.
So if "theme park" + "PvE-centric" games are failing, I assume that the opposite - "sandbox" + "pvp-centric" are successful?
Sandbox and PvP centric.. I can think of... Shadowbane, Fallen Earth, Darkfall.. uhm.. EVE. EVE is the only one that I'd consider a real success.
Theme park and PvE-Centric are EQ2 - 6 years and still goind strong, WoW - nuff said, LoTRO - several years and still going strong...
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
No, it is not worth it. Just wait for a quality MMO like Star Wars TOR or Final Fantasy XIV.
So you actually have played it...or presently play? You give no reasons for your answer. Besides....who's to say people don't want something to play WHILE waiting for ToR or FFXIV??
Yes I have. The class balance is destroyed in this game due to complete apathy and/or laziness. I'm talking about end game raiding. You need 4-5 of X class and 0 of Y class because of the way they are designed. So why are earth would someone spend months of leveling & gearing their character just to have no chance of enjoying the end game? That's why having 24 classes was a total failure on SOE's part. Quality > Quantity. The AA system also needs a ton of work. Overall the game is just not very well polished.
No, it is not worth it. Just wait for a quality MMO like Star Wars TOR or Final Fantasy XIV.
So you actually have played it...or presently play? You give no reasons for your answer. Besides....who's to say people don't want something to play WHILE waiting for ToR or FFXIV??
Yes I have. The class balance is destroyed in this game due to complete apathy and/or laziness. I'm talking about end game raiding. You need 4-5 of X class and 0 of Y class because of the way they are designed. So why are earth would someone spend months of leveling & gearing their character just to have no chance of enjoying the end game? That's why having 24 classes was a total failure on SOE's part. Quality > Quantity. The AA system also needs a ton of work. Overall the game is just not very well polished.
Well...I don't know about "end game" in this particular game, because after 4 and half years of playing...my highest level character is level 64. Yup....not EVERYONE plays for "end game." As a matter of fact....the term "end game" never even existed in MMOworld before WoW. People didn't used to "rush to end game." Things were more about the adventure of the journey.
So while I can't argue your points, as they were, I can definitely say that for some people who actually like to roleplay and/or experience the journey and exploration of a game.....it's worth it. I guess if you're only a "raider" and there is nothing but "end game" for your goal....maybe it's not.
If someone is just looking for something to play while waiting for another game though....doesn't sound like rushing to end game to be a raider is probably their plan.....
So as I am 50/50 split on coming back to play EQ2 again my question is what is there to do at max level if you choose not to raid? I get a few hours daily to play MMO's but after raiding in EQ1 and WOW for many many years I dont care to do it anymore. Is there decent gear to get without raiding and other content to keep one busy?
Well...I don't know about "end game" in this particular game, because after 4 and half years of playing...my highest level character is level 64. Yup....not EVERYONE plays for "end game." As a matter of fact....the term "end game" never even existed in MMOworld before WoW. People didn't used to "rush to end game." Things were more about the adventure of the journey.
As far back as Everquest there was the mad dash to max level and endgame. By the time velious launched, Everqeust was a full on endgame mmo with the primary focus of the game on raiding. I'm not sure where you get your facts from.
I would wait a little while before joining up. Until soe has a chance to work on the performance issues of the latest expansion, figures out a plan for the mergers and see what direction the new lead producer is going to take the game.
I recently started EQ2 for the first time, and the new player experience was just fine. Join a medium to high populated server, such as Crushbone for non rp or the rp server. The adventure from 1-90 is as fun as it should be, and I enjoy normal 6 person groups more than raiding.
As far as for finding groups, it can take a few minutes but I've rarely had to not play one night because I couldn't find a group. Classes 1-80 seems to be lacking in tanks most of all, followed by healers. If you want to have absolutely no problem finding a group (or even forming one), roll a tank. Healer is also a good choice.
If you wanna try the game out, there is no reason to wait. It's in good shape as it is.
Well...I don't know about "end game" in this particular game, because after 4 and half years of playing...my highest level character is level 64. Yup....not EVERYONE plays for "end game." As a matter of fact....the term "end game" never even existed in MMOworld before WoW. People didn't used to "rush to end game." Things were more about the adventure of the journey.
As far back as Everquest there was the mad dash to max level and endgame. By the time velious launched, Everqeust was a full on endgame mmo with the primary focus of the game on raiding. I'm not sure where you get your facts from.
I would wait a little while before joining up. Until soe has a chance to work on the performance issues of the latest expansion, figures out a plan for the mergers and see what direction the new lead producer is going to take the game.
Okay....let me REPHRASE my statement. No one CALLED max level activities "END GAME," BECAUSE....MMOs were meant to be games with NO END. Let's see...what level is EQ1 up to now for max level? Like what....140 or something? There's no intention to END the game, therefore there was no "end game" terminology. Yes...people have raided at max level since then...of course. It's one of the things you can do when you get to a higher level in ANY game, but my POINT is....for the players that STARTED playing this genre....ages ago.....we did not FOCUS on getting to the END of the game. That wasn't the point of playing at all, initially. The focus was on the journey. And if you were not around for UO, NWN, MUDs, etc....perhaps you were unaware that there was a time when people played MMOs for entirely different reasons than.....RUSHING to what has now been termed "end game."
Well...I don't know about "end game" in this particular game, because after 4 and half years of playing...my highest level character is level 64. Yup....not EVERYONE plays for "end game." As a matter of fact....the term "end game" never even existed in MMOworld before WoW. People didn't used to "rush to end game." Things were more about the adventure of the journey.
As far back as Everquest there was the mad dash to max level and endgame. By the time velious launched, Everqeust was a full on endgame mmo with the primary focus of the game on raiding. I'm not sure where you get your facts from.
I would wait a little while before joining up. Until soe has a chance to work on the performance issues of the latest expansion, figures out a plan for the mergers and see what direction the new lead producer is going to take the game.
Okay....let me REPHRASE my statement. No one CALLED max level activities "END GAME," BECAUSE....MMOs were meant to be games with NO END. Let's see...what level is EQ1 up to now for max level? Like what....140 or something? There's no intention to END the game, therefore there was no "end game" terminology. Yes...people have raided at max level since then...of course. It's one of the things you can do when you get to a higher level in ANY game, but my POINT is....for the players that STARTED playing this genre....ages ago.....we did not FOCUS on getting to the END of the game. That wasn't the point of playing at all, initially. The focus was on the journey. And if you were not around for UO, NWN, MUDs, etc....perhaps you were unaware that there was a time when people played MMOs for entirely different reasons than.....RUSHING to what has now been termed "end game."
Also when new MMOs were coming out, no one asked "Hows the end game gonna be like?"
After WoW is when you saw questions about 'end game' when a game was in development. Any new game announced and its always one of the first questions asked.
But yeah, as a player of EQ from beta till around PoP I can attest to the point that no one eas in a rush to get to end game. People were more into just getting to new areas and seeing new sights and getting new skills. End game became a big thing after PoP because most people already had characters there and were working on alts. Even then it wasn't really as hot a topic as it is now because EQ kept expanding and adding new levels.
I remember when AC was in beta. No one asked about end game, as no one really cared about it at that point. People just wanted a new game. Same for AO, DAoC, SWG, etc etc. Raids and end game were only really mentioned in passing as "There will be high level content such as raids...".
The reason End game is so important now is because WoW taught a whole new generation that 'MMOs are about getting to cap and farming epics'. Thats why when ever a new game is mentioned now people ask about end game and beg that the 'grind' to cap be non existant. Thank the whole 'The game really starts at 80' crowd for that.
As for the OP: The game is worth it for a newbie. The journey through the levels offer a great playing experience and there is a ton of things to do aside from just getting to cap.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Also when new MMOs were coming out, no one asked "Hows the end game gonna be like?"
After WoW is when you saw questions about 'end game' when a game was in development. Any new game announced and its always one of the first questions asked.
But yeah, as a player of EQ from beta till around PoP I can attest to the point that no one eas in a rush to get to end game. People were more into just getting to new areas and seeing new sights and getting new skills. End game became a big thing after PoP because most people already had characters there and were working on alts. Even then it wasn't really as hot a topic as it is now because EQ kept expanding and adding new levels.
I remember when AC was in beta. No one asked about end game, as no one really cared about it at that point. People just wanted a new game. Same for AO, DAoC, SWG, etc etc. Raids and end game were only really mentioned in passing as "There will be high level content such as raids...".
The reason End game is so important now is because WoW taught a whole new generation that 'MMOs are about getting to cap and farming epics'. Thats why when ever a new game is mentioned now people ask about end game and beg that the 'grind' to cap be non existant. Thank the whole 'The game really starts at 80' crowd for that.
As for the OP: The game is worth it for a newbie. The journey through the levels offer a great playing experience and there is a ton of things to do aside from just getting to cap.
When MMOs were coming out, it wasn't as much of a business at is now and games were generally more sand-boxy with developers creating equal amounts of content for all levels. After developers learned and content development costs got much higher due to the demand for pre-written themepark content, a logical conclusion was reached:
Rather than making a whole bunch of content that's going to become obsolete very quickly as majority of people outlevel it, let's create minimal content for leveling and more content at the point where more people spend more time - max level. The player desire for instant gratification and faster leveling also contributed to this - if your game has 90 levels, which level out of those 90 does the entirety of the population spend the most time on? I don't have the stats, but I'm sure gaming companies do, I'm also sure that the proportion of time spent at level 90 is higher than any other individual level. As such, if you're trying to cater to your customers, you should make more content for level 90 than any other level.
Additionally, max level is when you no longer "outlevel" content and gear, level 90 is the great equalizer. So unless the game has scaling content, it's easier to balance content for this point.
Another point is that "back in the olden days when no one cared about endgame", different players were playing the game. The players that played the game back then had never played an MMO, they had never leveled in an MMO, they had never done the "village detective" quest or the "save my daughter from wolves" quest or the "kill the evil shaman" quest. Everything was shiney and new. The players that are playing the game today are the players who've already done all these things at least once in another game, so it no longer generates as much excitement. The players are also better "at playing MMOs", they no longer need to spend a week in the starting area figure out how to equip their sword, most blow through the first 25 hours of gameplay in 2 hours or skip it outright.
Even "back in the olden days", after the first few years of AO (my first MMO), most people were starting characters with the idea of "what will this toon look like at 175?" (which was the entry to "endgame").
WoW didn't teach people anything that they didn't already know. Farming epics was already long-established in games like EQ and AO. WoW just made it easier to access for more people. Where in AO you needed to spend a year getting to 200 and then raid mercs for 10 hours a day to get something, in WoW you could could level to cap much faster and spend much less time experiencing "end-game". In effect, what games like WoW and EQ2 have done is made "endgame" into "main game".
This is not to defend the totally business-minded attitude of these developers or the death of creative innovation in the genre that they've ushered in, but don't make the mistake in thinking that developers are the great evil that's corrupted the innocent gamers. Fact is that what people wanted was "to level fast, kill dragons and get glowing swords", they did not want to "build a world and discover strange new worlds". At least not the majority. As i said in another thread recently, people vote with their money and the money vote is on WoW, McDonalds, Justin Bieber and Avatar. For the rest of us, there is always EVE... /sigh.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I never tried EQ2 and I was wondering how it is like for new players ? What is the community like ? If people can share their experiences it would be great.
Try it, since you cant go wrong. There'sa reason why EQII, LOTRO, etc. aren't cresting above 200k player-base, and limited numbers on-line anymore; there wasn't much lasting appeal for the majority that tried them.
For me, the PvE-centric nature of this and many a more static, theme-parkish mmorpg's has worn on me.
I would actually counter that standing on EQII subscription numbers.
According to the numbers I've been seeing, http://everquest2.com/serverstatus/ , during the normal play hours, I see servers usually running around 150k - 200k each. With over half a dozen servers in the US, I just cannot see them fielding less than the numbers provided; considering I never see a zone empty.
The entire game doesnt really have a player-base above 2-300k, as is the same most other mmo's. EQII is a dated product with a small in-game community. Again, you cant go wrong with a trial, but as you play, you'll experience that there isnt that massively feel to it that a large community offers.
I never tried EQ2 and I was wondering how it is like for new players ? What is the community like ? If people can share their experiences it would be great.
Try it, since you cant go wrong. There'sa reason why EQII, LOTRO, etc. aren't cresting above 200k player-base, and limited numbers on-line anymore; there wasn't much lasting appeal for the majority that tried them.
For me, the PvE-centric nature of this and many a more static, theme-parkish mmorpg's has worn on me.
I would actually counter that standing on EQII subscription numbers.
According to the numbers I've been seeing, http://everquest2.com/serverstatus/ , during the normal play hours, I see servers usually running around 150k - 200k each. With over half a dozen servers in the US, I just cannot see them fielding less than the numbers provided; considering I never see a zone empty.
The entire game doesnt really have a player-base above 2-300k, as is the same most other mmo's. EQII is a dated product with a small in-game community. Again, you cant go wrong with a trial, but as you play, you'll experience that there isnt that massively feel to it that a large community offers.
Most of the servers are on medium load except for two which are light. Crushbone, AB and the pvp server is always heavy load these days on peak times. I don't know what else players expect in terms of population from such an old game.
Well...I don't know about "end game" in this particular game, because after 4 and half years of playing...my highest level character is level 64. Yup....not EVERYONE plays for "end game." As a matter of fact....the term "end game" never even existed in MMOworld before WoW. People didn't used to "rush to end game." Things were more about the adventure of the journey.
As far back as Everquest there was the mad dash to max level and endgame. By the time velious launched, Everqeust was a full on endgame mmo with the primary focus of the game on raiding. I'm not sure where you get your facts from.
I would wait a little while before joining up. Until soe has a chance to work on the performance issues of the latest expansion, figures out a plan for the mergers and see what direction the new lead producer is going to take the game.
Okay....let me REPHRASE my statement. No one CALLED max level activities "END GAME," BECAUSE....MMOs were meant to be games with NO END. Let's see...what level is EQ1 up to now for max level? Like what....140 or something? There's no intention to END the game, therefore there was no "end game" terminology. Yes...people have raided at max level since then...of course. It's one of the things you can do when you get to a higher level in ANY game, but my POINT is....for the players that STARTED playing this genre....ages ago.....we did not FOCUS on getting to the END of the game. That wasn't the point of playing at all, initially. The focus was on the journey. And if you were not around for UO, NWN, MUDs, etc....perhaps you were unaware that there was a time when people played MMOs for entirely different reasons than.....RUSHING to what has now been termed "end game."
Look here its Jeff Kaplan talking about everquest END GAME in Jan 2002 being raid centric.
Here is a nice article about the "baby boom" that is rushing to end game that occured in Everquest in Nov 2000
Here is the guild leader of afterlife talking about the level rush to endgame in Kunark
The Druids grove Sept 2002 references to end game.
May 4th 2003, people refering to End Game in everquest
October 29th 2004, people refering to DAOC expansion as PVP endgame.
March 2003, players talking about what end game will be like in EQ2 when it releases.
Would you like more examples of end game mentality not only existing but being directly refered to with the term end game? Here is a quick google search so you can see a few references from the date range 2000-2004
I know people want to lay baggage at the doorstep of wow or whatever other newer mmo, but in all honestly these practices and mentalities have been around far longer than fall of 2004. It isn't like people suddenly realised in 2005 that the majority of players would end up at max level and raiding.
Yes I was around in Ultima Online and a few mudds. Yes there was plenty of just playing the game for the sake of adventuring and most of my greatest memories come from those times, but that doesn't change what happened. End game, raiding and rushing were in their infancy in the late 90's and in full effect by the early 2000's. All the rose colored nostalgia won't change that.
It happened long before wow or eq2 were even considered realities.
I never tried EQ2 and I was wondering how it is like for new players ? What is the community like ? If people can share their experiences it would be great.
Try it, since you cant go wrong. There'sa reason why EQII, LOTRO, etc. aren't cresting above 200k player-base, and limited numbers on-line anymore; there wasn't much lasting appeal for the majority that tried them.
For me, the PvE-centric nature of this and many a more static, theme-parkish mmorpg's has worn on me.
I would actually counter that standing on EQII subscription numbers.
According to the numbers I've been seeing, http://everquest2.com/serverstatus/ , during the normal play hours, I see servers usually running around 150k - 200k each. With over half a dozen servers in the US, I just cannot see them fielding less than the numbers provided; considering I never see a zone empty.
The entire game doesnt really have a player-base above 2-300k, as is the same most other mmo's. EQII is a dated product with a small in-game community. Again, you cant go wrong with a trial, but as you play, you'll experience that there isnt that massively feel to it that a large community offers.
Actually, a "large" community depends on people per server, not total subs. Something like EVE would have a much more vibrant and active community than something like WoW despite the fact that it has a hundredth of total subs. When I tried fallen earth, it had a much more active community than EQ2 and it had like 1k subs compared to 100k for EQ2, the difference was that the majority of them were in the smae level range and on the same server.
"Dated" isn't really an issue either. Since WoW and EQ2 came out, no MMO has reallly added anything new to the genre. The much touted "3rd generation" MMOs like AoC and WAR were really just WoW and EQ2 with extra PvP and didn't deliver anything special. AoC did up the standard in terms of graphics, but honestly, WoW has the worst graphics of any "AAA" MMO and is still the most financially successful, so the fact that it's "dated" doesn't really come into play.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
So as I am 50/50 split on coming back to play EQ2 again my question is what is there to do at max level if you choose not to raid? I get a few hours daily to play MMO's but after raiding in EQ1 and WOW for many many years I dont care to do it anymore. Is there decent gear to get without raiding and other content to keep one busy?
you can get gear good enough to do all 1 group instances yes. other than instances there is only really the hole - new dungeon. tho to me that one is very bad designed. atleast for ok geared chars as mine - can solo most of it, and then the idea they made 3 factions in there, and then you can gain faction from all 3 of them nps....loose the point to me there. and ofc that the place is just over all too easy, and with no really good things to gain - mind havent done all the quests tho
then ofc material gathering and crafting - crafters having their own "raid instances" that I know alot do solo, with good crafter orientated items and special recipes to gain. mind Im raiding so those things over all doesnt excite me, especially since done all 1 group instances already, and cant care to grind them for the rare drop they all got.
and for those who posted about population above...there for sure aint 200k/server. almost think those numbers is all time subs :P some servers still got healthy population tho....but for EU servers....merge em already!
You can solo to max level in EQ2. But unlike WoW the solo game feels a little more challenging to me, especially depending on your class.
I mention solo'ing to max because you like will, however. You may find some dungeon groups on weekend prime times once you get passed 30 or so, but mostly it will be by yourself.
A guild may help.
Overall, because any game you are starting at lvl 1 right now is going to be ghost-townish at the lower levels, EQ2 is a good choice for a solo game if you like a little bit more of a solo challenge than you will find in WoW.
Once you are max in EQ2, the community seems very active and solid.
If you want constent groups leveling up, CoH is just about the only game I could recommend.
Comments
I am actually playing on test trying out the new starting areas in the new Halas that will be in next LU. The new Halas newbie area is actually their best try ever in explaining the game for new players, it is actually pretty good. The new travel simplifications with a map with level ranges for the zone are nice too, and all travel now looks the same. The Halas newbie area even has a trainer for harvesting and a pretty good explanation of basic tradeskilling and the vital stats for each class and how you increase your stats (by equipment that has stats vital for your class! whee, an explanation that never been in game). It may actually be the first time in a while when you may be able to pick up the game and actually learn a lot of it just by following the tutorials. And yes New Halas is MUCH better than Gorowyn from a design point of wiev (as in finding things like the bank).
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
I played EQ2 for a few yrs, played EQ since beta over 10yrs ago and honestly the better game is EQ not EQ2 for new players.
If your looking for a great experience give EQ a try first you will find it is easier to play as a newer player while giving you the choice of having one the greatest artificial intelligent npc mercenaries I have ever seen in a game. You can hire a mercenary in EQ and it will either be a healer or a tank fighter depending on which you hire, it then makes it so easy to play even if you can't find a group right away.
EQ2 is hard on new players, people rarely take time to help new people and the learning curves are quick in EQ2 but the enjoyment comes from playing with others. If your looking to do boss fights or dungeons then a group is a must as solo content for new players is very bland in EQ2. EQ2 community is to far progressed to help most new players unless you can get into a guild right away and get help, even then people hate new players cause they figure it is a waste of time for them. This however is just how most older game titles are with the community that focus on progression.
Note: READ what the quest-givers tell you, it can be important. I saw in chat last night that some poor fool deleted that HUGE box that you get for completing the New Halas harvesting quest because he was staggering under the weight. The collections/harvesting quester flat out tells you to put it in the bank, only 10 feet away.
Its worth every dime you spend on it; Join a good guild (there are plenty who take low lvl and new players). I would recommend Crushbone or AB server. Just today i was running Black Burrows and Sewers with a full group. Lots of activity at low levels these days.
The trial client is actually relatively small in size. Once installed, the game will continue to download content while you are playing. This method is favored by many MMOs these days because it drastically shortens the time needed to get into the game and start playing.
I just started playing EQ2 in the last month as well, along with my girlfriend. We are both long-time EQ1 and WOW players. At first, the game was a bit daunting; there's just SO much to learn. The game doesn't hand-feed you everything like we were used to in WOW -- This became one of the buying points for us, actually.
The world is absolutely huge. The nice thing is, most of the zones are populated with other people (on Crushbone server). We've never encountered a zone where there are too many people or too few people. All-in-all we have had a very balanced and satisfying experience in the world.
Things we like most about the game, from a newbie perspective:
- Crafting. OMG, you actually have to "work" at it! It is interactive and not just a "make 10x <these items> to skill up". It is actually fun to craft!
- Exploration. You actually earn Alternate Experience for exploring the world! We are huge virtual game explorers, so this is a big perk for us.
- Class/race choices. Bar none, EQ2 has something for everyone. You will find something that you like. Some of the classes are the typical MMO classes, while some offer some differences to what you may be used to. Try a few!
- Auction house. Thank you for getting it right! It is so absolutely nice to not have to worry about servers going down and people minimum bidding your items, like was commonplace in WOW. Once your items are up, they are up. Need to reprice? Go ahead! The fees are all charged to the purchaser, not the seller. The AH design is very friendly and encouraging to newcomers.
- Stability. We've yet to encounter any server side lag, crashes, or extended maintenance with the servers; unlike the unknown/unexpected WOW weekly maintenance that could last for half a day (12 hours!).
- Content. There is more than enough content to keep you very busy for a very long time. One of the most amazing aspects of the game, for us, is that we can do totally different things in the game depending on how we feel that moment: Alternate Experience, Level Experience, or Crafting.
QFT
Good list of many of the reasons I prefer EQ2 to any other MMO. For all the bitching about SoE that goes on....there are some things that they certainly got RIGHT....at least for ME.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Try it, since you cant go wrong. There'sa reason why EQII, LOTRO, etc. aren't cresting above 200k player-base, and limited numbers on-line anymore; there wasn't much lasting appeal for the majority that tried them.
For me, the PvE-centric nature of this and many a more static, theme-parkish mmorpg's has worn on me.
For me, the PvE-centric nature of this and many a more static, theme-parkish mmorpg's has worn on me.
I would actually counter that standing on EQII subscription numbers.
According to the numbers I've been seeing, http://everquest2.com/serverstatus/ , during the normal play hours, I see servers usually running around 150k - 200k each. With over half a dozen servers in the US, I just cannot see them fielding less than the numbers provided; considering I never see a zone empty.
So if "theme park" + "PvE-centric" games are failing, I assume that the opposite - "sandbox" + "pvp-centric" are successful?
Sandbox and PvP centric.. I can think of... Shadowbane, Fallen Earth, Darkfall.. uhm.. EVE. EVE is the only one that I'd consider a real success.
Theme park and PvE-Centric are EQ2 - 6 years and still goind strong, WoW - nuff said, LoTRO - several years and still going strong...
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Yes I have. The class balance is destroyed in this game due to complete apathy and/or laziness. I'm talking about end game raiding. You need 4-5 of X class and 0 of Y class because of the way they are designed. So why are earth would someone spend months of leveling & gearing their character just to have no chance of enjoying the end game? That's why having 24 classes was a total failure on SOE's part. Quality > Quantity. The AA system also needs a ton of work. Overall the game is just not very well polished.
Well...I don't know about "end game" in this particular game, because after 4 and half years of playing...my highest level character is level 64. Yup....not EVERYONE plays for "end game." As a matter of fact....the term "end game" never even existed in MMOworld before WoW. People didn't used to "rush to end game." Things were more about the adventure of the journey.
So while I can't argue your points, as they were, I can definitely say that for some people who actually like to roleplay and/or experience the journey and exploration of a game.....it's worth it. I guess if you're only a "raider" and there is nothing but "end game" for your goal....maybe it's not.
If someone is just looking for something to play while waiting for another game though....doesn't sound like rushing to end game to be a raider is probably their plan.....
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Where do you think WoW got their end game ideas from? EverQuest 1. But I will agree with you that if you no interest in end game, EQ2 is decent.
So as I am 50/50 split on coming back to play EQ2 again my question is what is there to do at max level if you choose not to raid? I get a few hours daily to play MMO's but after raiding in EQ1 and WOW for many many years I dont care to do it anymore. Is there decent gear to get without raiding and other content to keep one busy?
As far back as Everquest there was the mad dash to max level and endgame. By the time velious launched, Everqeust was a full on endgame mmo with the primary focus of the game on raiding. I'm not sure where you get your facts from.
@original poster:
I would wait a little while before joining up. Until soe has a chance to work on the performance issues of the latest expansion, figures out a plan for the mergers and see what direction the new lead producer is going to take the game.
I recently started EQ2 for the first time, and the new player experience was just fine. Join a medium to high populated server, such as Crushbone for non rp or the rp server. The adventure from 1-90 is as fun as it should be, and I enjoy normal 6 person groups more than raiding.
As far as for finding groups, it can take a few minutes but I've rarely had to not play one night because I couldn't find a group. Classes 1-80 seems to be lacking in tanks most of all, followed by healers. If you want to have absolutely no problem finding a group (or even forming one), roll a tank. Healer is also a good choice.
If you wanna try the game out, there is no reason to wait. It's in good shape as it is.
Okay....let me REPHRASE my statement. No one CALLED max level activities "END GAME," BECAUSE....MMOs were meant to be games with NO END. Let's see...what level is EQ1 up to now for max level? Like what....140 or something? There's no intention to END the game, therefore there was no "end game" terminology. Yes...people have raided at max level since then...of course. It's one of the things you can do when you get to a higher level in ANY game, but my POINT is....for the players that STARTED playing this genre....ages ago.....we did not FOCUS on getting to the END of the game. That wasn't the point of playing at all, initially. The focus was on the journey. And if you were not around for UO, NWN, MUDs, etc....perhaps you were unaware that there was a time when people played MMOs for entirely different reasons than.....RUSHING to what has now been termed "end game."
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Also when new MMOs were coming out, no one asked "Hows the end game gonna be like?"
After WoW is when you saw questions about 'end game' when a game was in development. Any new game announced and its always one of the first questions asked.
But yeah, as a player of EQ from beta till around PoP I can attest to the point that no one eas in a rush to get to end game. People were more into just getting to new areas and seeing new sights and getting new skills. End game became a big thing after PoP because most people already had characters there and were working on alts. Even then it wasn't really as hot a topic as it is now because EQ kept expanding and adding new levels.
I remember when AC was in beta. No one asked about end game, as no one really cared about it at that point. People just wanted a new game. Same for AO, DAoC, SWG, etc etc. Raids and end game were only really mentioned in passing as "There will be high level content such as raids...".
The reason End game is so important now is because WoW taught a whole new generation that 'MMOs are about getting to cap and farming epics'. Thats why when ever a new game is mentioned now people ask about end game and beg that the 'grind' to cap be non existant. Thank the whole 'The game really starts at 80' crowd for that.
As for the OP: The game is worth it for a newbie. The journey through the levels offer a great playing experience and there is a ton of things to do aside from just getting to cap.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
When MMOs were coming out, it wasn't as much of a business at is now and games were generally more sand-boxy with developers creating equal amounts of content for all levels. After developers learned and content development costs got much higher due to the demand for pre-written themepark content, a logical conclusion was reached:
Rather than making a whole bunch of content that's going to become obsolete very quickly as majority of people outlevel it, let's create minimal content for leveling and more content at the point where more people spend more time - max level. The player desire for instant gratification and faster leveling also contributed to this - if your game has 90 levels, which level out of those 90 does the entirety of the population spend the most time on? I don't have the stats, but I'm sure gaming companies do, I'm also sure that the proportion of time spent at level 90 is higher than any other individual level. As such, if you're trying to cater to your customers, you should make more content for level 90 than any other level.
Additionally, max level is when you no longer "outlevel" content and gear, level 90 is the great equalizer. So unless the game has scaling content, it's easier to balance content for this point.
Another point is that "back in the olden days when no one cared about endgame", different players were playing the game. The players that played the game back then had never played an MMO, they had never leveled in an MMO, they had never done the "village detective" quest or the "save my daughter from wolves" quest or the "kill the evil shaman" quest. Everything was shiney and new. The players that are playing the game today are the players who've already done all these things at least once in another game, so it no longer generates as much excitement. The players are also better "at playing MMOs", they no longer need to spend a week in the starting area figure out how to equip their sword, most blow through the first 25 hours of gameplay in 2 hours or skip it outright.
Even "back in the olden days", after the first few years of AO (my first MMO), most people were starting characters with the idea of "what will this toon look like at 175?" (which was the entry to "endgame").
WoW didn't teach people anything that they didn't already know. Farming epics was already long-established in games like EQ and AO. WoW just made it easier to access for more people. Where in AO you needed to spend a year getting to 200 and then raid mercs for 10 hours a day to get something, in WoW you could could level to cap much faster and spend much less time experiencing "end-game". In effect, what games like WoW and EQ2 have done is made "endgame" into "main game".
This is not to defend the totally business-minded attitude of these developers or the death of creative innovation in the genre that they've ushered in, but don't make the mistake in thinking that developers are the great evil that's corrupted the innocent gamers. Fact is that what people wanted was "to level fast, kill dragons and get glowing swords", they did not want to "build a world and discover strange new worlds". At least not the majority. As i said in another thread recently, people vote with their money and the money vote is on WoW, McDonalds, Justin Bieber and Avatar. For the rest of us, there is always EVE... /sigh.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
The entire game doesnt really have a player-base above 2-300k, as is the same most other mmo's. EQII is a dated product with a small in-game community. Again, you cant go wrong with a trial, but as you play, you'll experience that there isnt that massively feel to it that a large community offers.
Most of the servers are on medium load except for two which are light. Crushbone, AB and the pvp server is always heavy load these days on peak times. I don't know what else players expect in terms of population from such an old game.
Look here its Jeff Kaplan talking about everquest END GAME in Jan 2002 being raid centric.
Here is a nice article about the "baby boom" that is rushing to end game that occured in Everquest in Nov 2000
Here is the guild leader of afterlife talking about the level rush to endgame in Kunark
The Druids grove Sept 2002 references to end game.
May 4th 2003, people refering to End Game in everquest
October 29th 2004, people refering to DAOC expansion as PVP endgame.
March 2003, players talking about what end game will be like in EQ2 when it releases.
Would you like more examples of end game mentality not only existing but being directly refered to with the term end game? Here is a quick google search so you can see a few references from the date range 2000-2004
I know people want to lay baggage at the doorstep of wow or whatever other newer mmo, but in all honestly these practices and mentalities have been around far longer than fall of 2004. It isn't like people suddenly realised in 2005 that the majority of players would end up at max level and raiding.
Yes I was around in Ultima Online and a few mudds. Yes there was plenty of just playing the game for the sake of adventuring and most of my greatest memories come from those times, but that doesn't change what happened. End game, raiding and rushing were in their infancy in the late 90's and in full effect by the early 2000's. All the rose colored nostalgia won't change that.
It happened long before wow or eq2 were even considered realities.
Actually, a "large" community depends on people per server, not total subs. Something like EVE would have a much more vibrant and active community than something like WoW despite the fact that it has a hundredth of total subs. When I tried fallen earth, it had a much more active community than EQ2 and it had like 1k subs compared to 100k for EQ2, the difference was that the majority of them were in the smae level range and on the same server.
"Dated" isn't really an issue either. Since WoW and EQ2 came out, no MMO has reallly added anything new to the genre. The much touted "3rd generation" MMOs like AoC and WAR were really just WoW and EQ2 with extra PvP and didn't deliver anything special. AoC did up the standard in terms of graphics, but honestly, WoW has the worst graphics of any "AAA" MMO and is still the most financially successful, so the fact that it's "dated" doesn't really come into play.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
you can get gear good enough to do all 1 group instances yes. other than instances there is only really the hole - new dungeon. tho to me that one is very bad designed. atleast for ok geared chars as mine - can solo most of it, and then the idea they made 3 factions in there, and then you can gain faction from all 3 of them nps....loose the point to me there. and ofc that the place is just over all too easy, and with no really good things to gain - mind havent done all the quests tho
then ofc material gathering and crafting - crafters having their own "raid instances" that I know alot do solo, with good crafter orientated items and special recipes to gain. mind Im raiding so those things over all doesnt excite me, especially since done all 1 group instances already, and cant care to grind them for the rare drop they all got.
and for those who posted about population above...there for sure aint 200k/server. almost think those numbers is all time subs :P some servers still got healthy population tho....but for EU servers....merge em already!
You can solo to max level in EQ2. But unlike WoW the solo game feels a little more challenging to me, especially depending on your class.
I mention solo'ing to max because you like will, however. You may find some dungeon groups on weekend prime times once you get passed 30 or so, but mostly it will be by yourself.
A guild may help.
Overall, because any game you are starting at lvl 1 right now is going to be ghost-townish at the lower levels, EQ2 is a good choice for a solo game if you like a little bit more of a solo challenge than you will find in WoW.
Once you are max in EQ2, the community seems very active and solid.
If you want constent groups leveling up, CoH is just about the only game I could recommend.
DDO has tons of group, from like level 2 on... not the greatest game tho
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO