I've been lurking on this website for years and I finally created an account JUST so I could say I totally agree with you. I started playing EQ1 in June of 99 and am 32 now. I've been in a limbo for several years now wanting something that was huge, fun, challenging and also PvE. Right now the current crop of MMO's just do not satisfy that hunger. And I think its all due to copy+pasting developers and poor communities. The only good thing I've gotten out of the last five years of MMO's was meeting my wife in EQ2. You sir made a great post. Thank you.
About the only joy I get from MMOs these days is watching one game after another crash and burn in a pile of flaming wreckage. Is this a terrible thing to admit about myself? Oh well, it's true.
And it is funny you know, because the developers see what happened to the games which came before theirs and yet they still head right down that same road, miss the same turn, go over the same cliff, smash into the same rock, and burst into flames in the same spot as all the others who went before them.
What you need is chat on MSN. MMORPGs are games, not chat channels so socialization is NOT the main thing. The main thing is to progress cooperatively (or kill the other guy in pvp).
MMORPGs are not games, they are worlds. They were built as fantasy world simulators. The fun comes not only from your personal progress but also from contributing to the community within the world, doing something that has an effect outside of just your own experience. Naturally anything community related holds socialisation as a key component. I suggest you look at some older MMOs and how they encouraged and often depended upon player interaction and socalisation.
Modern MMOs have turned this around by making the entire play exerience about selfish goals alone. The majority of players now only see each other as a means to an end, a tool to be used to obtain some new gear and then be discarded afterwards. This is the WoW mentality that many others in the genre loathe. Since you also consider personal progress to be the entire point of the genre it's safe to assume that you too have fallen victim to this mentality.
You seem to be entirely oblivious to what this genre actually is about (and the fact that modern MMORPGs, despite being massively multiplayer, are not truly MMORPGs any more).
OP I fully agree with you, that's why I'm headed back to FFXI yet again until XIV launches.
You seem to be entirely oblivious to what this genre actually is about (and the fact that modern MMORPGs, despite being massively multiplayer, are not truly MMORPGs any more).
No, *YOU* seem to be entirely oblivious to what the genre is actually about. While there may have been games in the past which were "virtual worlds" of a sort, they failed and died and the genre moved on. Today, MMOs are not about being virtual worlds. Something tells me you need to stop living in the past and join the modern world.
You seem to be entirely oblivious to what this genre actually is about (and the fact that modern MMORPGs, despite being massively multiplayer, are not truly MMORPGs any more).
No, *YOU* seem to be entirely oblivious to what the genre is actually about. While there may have been games in the past which were "virtual worlds" of a sort, they failed and died and the genre moved on. Today, MMOs are not about being virtual worlds. Something tells me you need to stop living in the past and join the modern world.
Someone with over 1000 posts on MMORPG.com probably shouldnt offer lectures to people on what the real world is. Chances are they have very little idea of it themselves.
You seem to be entirely oblivious to what this genre actually is about (and the fact that modern MMORPGs, despite being massively multiplayer, are not truly MMORPGs any more).
No, *YOU* seem to be entirely oblivious to what the genre is actually about. While there may have been games in the past which were "virtual worlds" of a sort, they failed and died and the genre moved on. Today, MMOs are not about being virtual worlds. Something tells me you need to stop living in the past and join the modern world.
Someone with over 1000 posts on MMORPG.com probably shouldnt offer lectures to people on what the real world is. Chances are they have very little idea of it themselves.
Allright, shows your lack of insight.
This has no relevance once way or another. If you don`t beleive me, take a look at my post count buddy
You seem to be entirely oblivious to what this genre actually is about (and the fact that modern MMORPGs, despite being massively multiplayer, are not truly MMORPGs any more).
No, *YOU* seem to be entirely oblivious to what the genre is actually about. While there may have been games in the past which were "virtual worlds" of a sort, they failed and died and the genre moved on. Today, MMOs are not about being virtual worlds. Something tells me you need to stop living in the past and join the modern world.
Someone with over 1000 posts on MMORPG.com probably shouldnt offer lectures to people on what the real world is. Chances are they have very little idea of it themselves.
Allright, shows your lack of insight.
This has no relevance once way or another. If you don`t beleive me, take a look at my post count buddy
Lack of insight? How's this for insight:
A guy sees a post from a frustrated gamer, and sees an opportunity to mock that gamer. He is then mocked for his high post count, a post count which, when coupled with his apparent lack of conversational ability and argumentative strength carries the rather fun connotations of being nothing more than a kid with alot of time to troll on his hands.
This person then gets upset, and thinks to himself "Self. You are witty. Show the world how witty you are by creating a new account, and posting as if you were a supporter of your own point of view!"
Nevermind that the previous point of view was not really a point of view at all. He proceeds to create a new account and post.
Well... Im persuaded. How about the rest? Are you guys convinced?
You seem to be entirely oblivious to what this genre actually is about (and the fact that modern MMORPGs, despite being massively multiplayer, are not truly MMORPGs any more).
No, *YOU* seem to be entirely oblivious to what the genre is actually about. While there may have been games in the past which were "virtual worlds" of a sort, they failed and died and the genre moved on. Today, MMOs are not about being virtual worlds. Something tells me you need to stop living in the past and join the modern world.
Someone with over 1000 posts on MMORPG.com probably shouldnt offer lectures to people on what the real world is. Chances are they have very little idea of it themselves.
Allright, shows your lack of insight.
This has no relevance once way or another. If you don`t beleive me, take a look at my post count buddy
(Someone replaced e-peen with post count...)
No, really, check the old "books" on what really MMORPG games were about(The oldest one was Meridian 59).
The only good thing about the WoW taking over MMORPG genre is that it brought a lot of potential customers for the real RPGs which may come...(and lets hope they will)
You seem to be entirely oblivious to what this genre actually is about (and the fact that modern MMORPGs, despite being massively multiplayer, are not truly MMORPGs any more).
No, *YOU* seem to be entirely oblivious to what the genre is actually about. While there may have been games in the past which were "virtual worlds" of a sort, they failed and died and the genre moved on. Today, MMOs are not about being virtual worlds. Something tells me you need to stop living in the past and join the modern world.
Failed and died? Haha, I doubt I'm the only person behind their keyboard laughing at that one... considering that the games you're talking about established the genre they couldn't hardly have failed and I'm pretty sure none (or few) of them are yet dead.
The virtual world concept was a key component of the genre. If you change that component then the overall product is no longer in that genre. The genre hasn't moved on, a fad has emerged under the name of WoW that has been mislabled as being a part of the genre. When it first launched it actually did hold quite closely to the traditional MMO setup. Since then however, in an attempt to appeal to the lowest common denominator to make more money, WoW and most modern MMOs released since have, in fact, removed so much of the original MMO formula that they have formed their own sub-genre.
Why do you think WoW appeals so much to non-MMO players? Because it's not a true MMO! It looks and plays like one but it lacks most of the features. All it has now is class-based combat and loot progression. Everything else in the game contributes entirely to this type of gameplay alone.
(And before anyone starts being clever I'm defining an MMORPG here as something considerably larger than the sum of the six letters that represent the genre.)
This person then gets upset, and thinks to himself "Self. You are witty. Show the world how witty you are by creating a new account, and posting as if you were a supporter of your own point of view!
Nah, we`re actually not the same person. I`ve been reading these forums for a few years but i really havent had anything to comment on untill i saw this sweet x-ref of yours...
I started to play text based MUD game on AOL, it was called Gemstone in early 1994. Then moved on for Diablo as pk then hacked sh*t out of it. Fully enjoyed that part and land edas a programer/dba/network admin today. I still remember the first day of UO and my first death after I foolish enough to attack a cat with 10 hp, little dex and tons of mana without herbs for spells. lol Those were the best memory I had and never was able to repeat until EQ1. I then charged to max level with my wife who played as Cleric and I as Wizard. We made lots of friends, made daily groups to kills through lower guk and etc... Later on, we played AO and FFXI. We still remember the people that we called friends. We still talk about those memory even today long after we stoped playing those game.
Nowdays however, I cannot really get into any MMOs at all. The whole nature of those games have changed too much. It is no longer about making friends to get through hard dungeons and try hard bosses just for fun of it. It is all about loot and be uber. There is no sense of community anymore. I was 18 back in 1994, single, with a nice graphic design part time job. Now, I'm married (met my wife in Diablo when she kept getting PKed and I give her my hacked dagger that would unlock all spells in town+one shot kill anybody) with a kid. I'm knee deep in code/patch/rollout/support calls everyday and I still want to recapture the old feelings while playing MMOs. However, the magic is long gone. I don't think I have burned out from MMOs. It is just all the games are too much alike. I can play no more than 30 minutes and be able to adopt to the game so well that totally lose desire to keep play. Feels like I'm playing same game with different skin over and over to b honest. There is no more creativity, only endless grind/farm/loot. MMOs world have lost the community feeling now, everything is just too realistic in fantasy setting it seems. What is happening in real life got copied into the game. Simply put, the ungly parts of real life behaviors are now inside fantasy world. By play MMOs, aren't trying to get away from real life stuff? All those leet loot/level and etc are bring out the worst part of people thus killed the game all together. Playing game is no long for fun but for status. Maybe to many that having a godly sword means fun, but for me it is not so much. I like the jurnoney more than the destination. To me it is not about getting that epic item, it is all about getting that epic item with group of true "friends". We share the joy instead of just saying congrats on surface and curse the bloody bad roll in heart. This is why I've lost interest in MMOs I think.
About the only joy I get from MMOs these days is watching one game after another crash and burn in a pile of flaming wreckage. Is this a terrible thing to admit about myself? Oh well, it's true.
And it is funny you know, because the developers see what happened to the games which came before theirs and yet they still head right down that same road, miss the same turn, go over the same cliff, smash into the same rock, and burst into flames in the same spot as all the others who went before them.
All to true.
You know.. I think this is replacing my original hobby of actually playing mmorpgs. I too enjoy watching them get vomited out only to "crash and burn" as Neanderthal pointed out. It's quite the pass time nowadays. At the time of release I make some popcorn and hang out on the random game forums and youtube watching all the game play videos and just feel really good about myself for not spending my money on any of them.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
You seem to be entirely oblivious to what this genre actually is about (and the fact that modern MMORPGs, despite being massively multiplayer, are not truly MMORPGs any more).
No, *YOU* seem to be entirely oblivious to what the genre is actually about. While there may have been games in the past which were "virtual worlds" of a sort, they failed and died and the genre moved on. Today, MMOs are not about being virtual worlds. Something tells me you need to stop living in the past and join the modern world.
Someone with over 1000 posts on MMORPG.com probably shouldnt offer lectures to people on what the real world is. Chances are they have very little idea of it themselves.
Allright, shows your lack of insight.
This has no relevance once way or another. If you don`t beleive me, take a look at my post count buddy
Lack of insight? How's this for insight:
A guy sees a post from a frustrated gamer, and sees an opportunity to mock that gamer. He is then mocked for his high post count, a post count which, when coupled with his apparent lack of conversational ability and argumentative strength carries the rather fun connotations of being nothing more than a kid with alot of time to troll on his hands.
This person then gets upset, and thinks to himself "Self. You are witty. Show the world how witty you are by creating a new account, and posting as if you were a supporter of your own point of view!"
Nevermind that the previous point of view was not really a point of view at all. He proceeds to create a new account and post.
Well... Im persuaded. How about the rest? Are you guys convinced?
I, for one, am totally convinced.........................
i also feel exactly like the op, i loved FFXI and made loads of friends there, as much as people complained i do like the whole forced grouping as i feel it kinda forces the community togeather. sometiems getting into a group with some great people made you forget about the grind. for me personally i feel that the way these recent mmos are alot more solo focused for leveling kinda removes that for me.
i took my first WoW character to 80 without really interacting with anyone, either no one really wanted to group or only wanted to for instances and then 9/10 they just wanted to rush through it to get the loot and then leave. sadly alot of the more recent mmos seem to be following a similar style =/
I was looking at your list of "played MMO's" and I wondered something...
Did you feel the same about UO? EQ1? AO?
You probably alluded to this in your original post already, but do you think it's because the majority of current MMO's have all become very similar? (i.e., your recent foray into EQ2)
I know I risk sounding like a viral marketer, I was in the very same boat as you a few months ago. Thankfully, I found an MMO different enough, that fit my tastes, and I'm having fun again. Although I'd love to give it a strong recommendation, I've found out over the same period that the game seems to have a very narrow appeal. That said, I don't want to build something up when it might not fit your particular tastes at all.
That said, it has a 21-day trial that won't cost you anything but time. If you can afford a bit of that commodity, here's the link to check it out:
The worst that can come out of it is that it'll help time go by a little faster until the release of FFXIV
Good luck!
The reason that he didn't feel the same in EQ1 is because that game used to FORCE you to group up and forced downtime and waiting around. This had a side effect of encouraging community communication for entertainment purposes. Remember staring at your spell book? the only interesting thing that you could do then was chat with people. Say what you will about the broken gameplay- it totally encouraged social interaction and community.
Im exactly the same. While I havent tried many current mmos I have totally given up on them for now. Back when I played my first 2 mmos (everquest and FFXI) I felt like part of a community. For some reason I never once felt rushed to grind my ass nonstop to get to max level so I can grind more and get better loot to be the best ever. Sure there was a ton of grinding but for some reason I just never felt rushed and always had other fun things to do. I enjoyed replying to people shouting that they needed help with some task. The community was just THAT much better back then.
In everquest I always had fun exploring new places or doing different things with friends. In FFXI I did the same and for some reason I was seriously addicted to the fishing. I also had regular people who would sit and chat with me while we fished together. In time they became my best friends in game and we occasionaly grouped together and such. In recent games (the WoW effect) the only thing other people wanted to talk to me about was the best way to get that new piece of gear or what certain method gained the highest xp per hour. I never felt part of a community and it was ALWAYS just about leveling up and gaining equipment.
After EQ and FFXI I played WoW for a year and it felt so freakin empty. Tried eq2 but it was nothing like eq, went on to vanguard and it started out ok (well it was horrible at launch so freaking buggy and no computer could run it apparently). But it had that same vast feeling and the community was great. then it employed instant travel and other such ez mode gimmicks which made me quit. I tried out some lesser games also but everything was that same grind grind race to the highest lvl feeling. I havent played any mmorpg in over a year. Im going to give the new FF a try but sadly I think im done with the genre.
The first thing I did in my first mmo was talk to an NPC, who asked me to take a note to another nearby NPC. I was happy. I had been an mmo player for 2 minutes and I had accomplished something. That was original EQ.
Ten years later, when asked to take a note to someone, I have to suppress the desire to strangle the life out of someone. That is because I have now delivered more letters than Cliff Clavin.
There comes a point when the same tired old game mechanics that witless developers can't wean themselves from just wear you down. Sure, there are better and worse versions of it, but it becomes a movie you've already seen a million times.
I'm beginning to think there should be a niche game for veteran mmo players. The design philosophy should not be the usual dead horses of casual versus hardcore and all that rubbish. But rather, what would a game look like if we put things in it that someone who has played 8-10 other mmos hasn't already seen before?
I've hopped, and hopped, and hopped, and hopped...
and within a week or two.. sometimes a month.. I'm hopping again.
I just paid 46.00 for EQ2 Sentinel's fate, and already bored with it. Why? Because I've already done it before, in 3 or 4 other games. It feels and plays just like every other WoW clone in recent history. You create a toon, you grind quests, and you raid. You solo most of the time, and you don't socialize unless your in a guild, and even then sometimes you don't... why? Because everyone is too busy grinding quests, and raiding. Its just a means to an end now. There is no adventure, there is no epic feeling of exploration, you are not playing a role. Its just a shell of a game, where your trying to get from point A to B with as little delay as possible. That is NOT fun to me. I argued with a friend today, who doesn't like to be challenged. He'd rather be shown where every quest is, be able to insta travel to every location, and be able to eat a sandwich while he quests endlessly. If he had to travel to a location on foot without a speedy mount, he'd cry.
I cannot play anymore of these games. I cannot do another "quest to end cap solo fest". I want to be a part of the world, and socialize with everyone around me as it pertains to the game, not just people I know or who I am in a guild with. I want the game to facilitate me being able to do that as well. Not, just when I need experience points or "gear". I don't want to spend my entire night alone, in a game thats meant to be multiplayer. I don't want to be in a guild of folks who are all "alone" even though they are together in the guild.
So at this point I'm considering that FFXI and possibly FFXIV are my last hope for an MMO that isn't about just questing to end cap and raiding, with little to no interaction other than to chat about who has the best purples. I want to follow an epic "RPG" storyline that unfolds as I level and play.
Quite simple. They are games now, not a living "world" like alot once were. You go from point A to point B the same way each and every time.
I've hopped, and hopped, and hopped, and hopped...
and within a week or two.. sometimes a month.. I'm hopping again.
I just paid 46.00 for EQ2 Sentinel's fate, and already bored with it. Why? Because I've already done it before, in 3 or 4 other games. It feels and plays just like every other WoW clone in recent history. You create a toon, you grind quests, and you raid. You solo most of the time, and you don't socialize unless your in a guild, and even then sometimes you don't... why? Because everyone is too busy grinding quests, and raiding. Its just a means to an end now. There is no adventure, there is no epic feeling of exploration, you are not playing a role. Its just a shell of a game, where your trying to get from point A to B with as little delay as possible. That is NOT fun to me. I argued with a friend today, who doesn't like to be challenged. He'd rather be shown where every quest is, be able to insta travel to every location, and be able to eat a sandwich while he quests endlessly. If he had to travel to a location on foot without a speedy mount, he'd cry.
I cannot play anymore of these games. I cannot do another "quest to end cap solo fest". I want to be a part of the world, and socialize with everyone around me as it pertains to the game, not just people I know or who I am in a guild with. I want the game to facilitate me being able to do that as well. Not, just when I need experience points or "gear". I don't want to spend my entire night alone, in a game thats meant to be multiplayer. I don't want to be in a guild of folks who are all "alone" even though they are together in the guild.
So at this point I'm considering that FFXI and possibly FFXIV are my last hope for an MMO that isn't about just questing to end cap and raiding, with little to no interaction other than to chat about who has the best purples. I want to follow an epic "RPG" storyline that unfolds as I level and play.
Agreed 100%! This eloquently sums up my recent experiences in a variety of mmo's.
And to fyerwall, the second poster: I can't speak for the OP, of course, but for myself I will say that I do have other interests. My gaming is done in short bursts inbetween many other activities including walking, reading, working and so on. It isn't to do with being burnt out (at least I don't think it is), it's something to do with feeling a sense of alienation from the majority of players who seem to want to whizz through the game as fast as possible to achieve their virtual goals.
I like to take my time, enjoy the journey, smell the roses, chat to other players and, hopefully, get some sense of immersion in a fantasy ennvironment which I can explore to my heart's content.
You are hopping from MMO to MMO because they pretty much all suck. I haven't had one hold my interest since PreCU SWG. They are all just the same game now with different skins. Only Darkfall, Fallen Earth, and EVE have much uniqueness to them, and neither of them holds my interest very long.
I'm hoping Infiniti: Earth releases in the next few years. Holding out a lot of hope for Earthrise as well. Even Mortal Online, with all it's issues right now, plays enough like Elder Scrolls Oblivion to make me want to keep playing it, IF they fix the problems from beta.
They were made for love of the hole concept, dungeons, swords, magic and the rest, they were made with love not as a huge money making opportunity.
Reason your bored of these new and older games?
The old games are just that old, look dated, everyone in them is normally hugely powerful already, your playing catch up in areas where no one else is, then you come across someone who doesnt even speak your language...
New games are clones of old ones, without the love and soul, with money making in mind (WOW clone - mentality)
My advice to you?
You need something new, something different, be that EVE, or maybe try an indie game, something where it was made for love of the genre, DARKFALL comes to mind, if not then wait for TERA or B&S, as atleast they offer a new mindset of gameplay, and look hugely pretty and polished....
Also a game at release means everyone around you also doesnt have a clue what to do, its about the adventure, exploration, trial and error, thats the fun of a MMORPG, doing all that with others...
Wait for a new game to be released thats innovative then you can enjoy your time with players around you.
Ex. myth of soma, legend of mir, mu online and eudemons online player.
Current game : Runescape (until pc build is complete)
I've played many MMO's including WoW, EQ, LOTRO, Allods, Perfect world, etc. and They are all the same exact thing. Go do this and go do that... I'm sick of running errands for people its all just rinse and repeat All I want to do kill stuff, craft, socialize, and explore. I recently got into Darkfall and it's one of the best mmo's I have Ever played. I'll hang out and kill some mobs where I skill up get materials for crafting/pvp and get gear at the same time. It's a win win situation because I never find myself bored. There is always something to do like go defend my Hamlet with my 10 other clan mates or help out the NEW clan in the city right next to us. I find it has the most satisfying feeling of any MMO I have every played. Example: The other day I was mining and using a strong box to stash my loot which I had hidden in a bush. I heard somebody fighting mobs nearby and I stashed all the stuff I didn't want to lose and started stalking him. I hid behind rocks and bushes and waited for the perfect moment to strike. I saw that he was looting a grave and was at about 3/4 health so I jumped out of my hiding place hit him with my axe a few times and bam he was dead. My heart was racing and my hands were shaking because I didn't know how good he was or what he was going to do. I could barely loot the grave cause my hands were shaking so much. I went and banked all the loot I had scored and Messaged the guy and had a friendly conversation with him and wished each other good luck. This is why I keep playing. People in the game don't care about loot or gear, They care about having fun and interacting with other people. Darkfall is so different then any other MMO because I don't feel dependent on gear to be good. Also, I'm free to do whatever I want and isn't that what mmo's were made for? Anyways If you're sick of all these rinse and repeat MMO's you should give it a try. And if you don't want to play Darkfall, Hell go play eve It's almost as good. The important thing is Don't play generic MMO's you'll find yourself bored very quickly cause it's the same exact thing as everything else
Sentinel’s Fate is probably one of the better expansions SOE has done where a level cap was raised. They seem to have gotten that people want the ability to choose how they will level be it group or solo rather being forced down one path or the other. The breakdown for me from 80 to 90 was about 6 levels solo and 4 levels in groups.
As for your general lack of interest in “grinding, quests, and raiding” at the end of the day that’s what a MMO is. I can play a MMO by myself for 20-50 hours or so if it’s a interesting concept but sooner or later I just get tired of the game. It’s the social interaction that makes MMO’s worth playing for years. The other activities you are talking about are just thinly veiled excuses to get together in the first place.
If you are playing a MMO like you would any other single player game then don’t expect it to keep your interest any longer than one.
Comments
I've been lurking on this website for years and I finally created an account JUST so I could say I totally agree with you. I started playing EQ1 in June of 99 and am 32 now. I've been in a limbo for several years now wanting something that was huge, fun, challenging and also PvE. Right now the current crop of MMO's just do not satisfy that hunger. And I think its all due to copy+pasting developers and poor communities. The only good thing I've gotten out of the last five years of MMO's was meeting my wife in EQ2. You sir made a great post. Thank you.
All to true.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
MMORPGs are not games, they are worlds. They were built as fantasy world simulators. The fun comes not only from your personal progress but also from contributing to the community within the world, doing something that has an effect outside of just your own experience. Naturally anything community related holds socialisation as a key component. I suggest you look at some older MMOs and how they encouraged and often depended upon player interaction and socalisation.
Modern MMOs have turned this around by making the entire play exerience about selfish goals alone. The majority of players now only see each other as a means to an end, a tool to be used to obtain some new gear and then be discarded afterwards. This is the WoW mentality that many others in the genre loathe. Since you also consider personal progress to be the entire point of the genre it's safe to assume that you too have fallen victim to this mentality.
You seem to be entirely oblivious to what this genre actually is about (and the fact that modern MMORPGs, despite being massively multiplayer, are not truly MMORPGs any more).
OP I fully agree with you, that's why I'm headed back to FFXI yet again until XIV launches.
No, *YOU* seem to be entirely oblivious to what the genre is actually about. While there may have been games in the past which were "virtual worlds" of a sort, they failed and died and the genre moved on. Today, MMOs are not about being virtual worlds. Something tells me you need to stop living in the past and join the modern world.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Someone with over 1000 posts on MMORPG.com probably shouldnt offer lectures to people on what the real world is. Chances are they have very little idea of it themselves.
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
Allright, shows your lack of insight.
This has no relevance once way or another. If you don`t beleive me, take a look at my post count buddy
Lack of insight? How's this for insight:
A guy sees a post from a frustrated gamer, and sees an opportunity to mock that gamer. He is then mocked for his high post count, a post count which, when coupled with his apparent lack of conversational ability and argumentative strength carries the rather fun connotations of being nothing more than a kid with alot of time to troll on his hands.
This person then gets upset, and thinks to himself "Self. You are witty. Show the world how witty you are by creating a new account, and posting as if you were a supporter of your own point of view!"
Nevermind that the previous point of view was not really a point of view at all. He proceeds to create a new account and post.
Well... Im persuaded. How about the rest? Are you guys convinced?
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
(Someone replaced e-peen with post count...)
No, really, check the old "books" on what really MMORPG games were about(The oldest one was Meridian 59).
The only good thing about the WoW taking over MMORPG genre is that it brought a lot of potential customers for the real RPGs which may come...(and lets hope they will)
Failed and died? Haha, I doubt I'm the only person behind their keyboard laughing at that one... considering that the games you're talking about established the genre they couldn't hardly have failed and I'm pretty sure none (or few) of them are yet dead.
The virtual world concept was a key component of the genre. If you change that component then the overall product is no longer in that genre. The genre hasn't moved on, a fad has emerged under the name of WoW that has been mislabled as being a part of the genre. When it first launched it actually did hold quite closely to the traditional MMO setup. Since then however, in an attempt to appeal to the lowest common denominator to make more money, WoW and most modern MMOs released since have, in fact, removed so much of the original MMO formula that they have formed their own sub-genre.
Why do you think WoW appeals so much to non-MMO players? Because it's not a true MMO! It looks and plays like one but it lacks most of the features. All it has now is class-based combat and loot progression. Everything else in the game contributes entirely to this type of gameplay alone.
(And before anyone starts being clever I'm defining an MMORPG here as something considerably larger than the sum of the six letters that represent the genre.)
Nah, we`re actually not the same person. I`ve been reading these forums for a few years but i really havent had anything to comment on untill i saw this sweet x-ref of yours...
I started to play text based MUD game on AOL, it was called Gemstone in early 1994. Then moved on for Diablo as pk then hacked sh*t out of it. Fully enjoyed that part and land edas a programer/dba/network admin today. I still remember the first day of UO and my first death after I foolish enough to attack a cat with 10 hp, little dex and tons of mana without herbs for spells. lol Those were the best memory I had and never was able to repeat until EQ1. I then charged to max level with my wife who played as Cleric and I as Wizard. We made lots of friends, made daily groups to kills through lower guk and etc... Later on, we played AO and FFXI. We still remember the people that we called friends. We still talk about those memory even today long after we stoped playing those game.
Nowdays however, I cannot really get into any MMOs at all. The whole nature of those games have changed too much. It is no longer about making friends to get through hard dungeons and try hard bosses just for fun of it. It is all about loot and be uber. There is no sense of community anymore. I was 18 back in 1994, single, with a nice graphic design part time job. Now, I'm married (met my wife in Diablo when she kept getting PKed and I give her my hacked dagger that would unlock all spells in town+one shot kill anybody) with a kid. I'm knee deep in code/patch/rollout/support calls everyday and I still want to recapture the old feelings while playing MMOs. However, the magic is long gone. I don't think I have burned out from MMOs. It is just all the games are too much alike. I can play no more than 30 minutes and be able to adopt to the game so well that totally lose desire to keep play. Feels like I'm playing same game with different skin over and over to b honest. There is no more creativity, only endless grind/farm/loot. MMOs world have lost the community feeling now, everything is just too realistic in fantasy setting it seems. What is happening in real life got copied into the game. Simply put, the ungly parts of real life behaviors are now inside fantasy world. By play MMOs, aren't trying to get away from real life stuff? All those leet loot/level and etc are bring out the worst part of people thus killed the game all together. Playing game is no long for fun but for status. Maybe to many that having a godly sword means fun, but for me it is not so much. I like the jurnoney more than the destination. To me it is not about getting that epic item, it is all about getting that epic item with group of true "friends". We share the joy instead of just saying congrats on surface and curse the bloody bad roll in heart. This is why I've lost interest in MMOs I think.
Not the best, but always the first.
Sounds like OP is suffering from MMO burnout.
Try giving MMOs a rest for a time, the longer the better.
Burnout is nature's way of getting us to try new things.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
You know.. I think this is replacing my original hobby of actually playing mmorpgs. I too enjoy watching them get vomited out only to "crash and burn" as Neanderthal pointed out. It's quite the pass time nowadays. At the time of release I make some popcorn and hang out on the random game forums and youtube watching all the game play videos and just feel really good about myself for not spending my money on any of them.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
I, for one, am totally convinced.........................
OP you are old and cynical now. You are exactly the market no one targets because you are to picky about everything.
just had to reply to this thread
i also feel exactly like the op, i loved FFXI and made loads of friends there, as much as people complained i do like the whole forced grouping as i feel it kinda forces the community togeather. sometiems getting into a group with some great people made you forget about the grind. for me personally i feel that the way these recent mmos are alot more solo focused for leveling kinda removes that for me.
i took my first WoW character to 80 without really interacting with anyone, either no one really wanted to group or only wanted to for instances and then 9/10 they just wanted to rush through it to get the loot and then leave. sadly alot of the more recent mmos seem to be following a similar style =/
The reason that he didn't feel the same in EQ1 is because that game used to FORCE you to group up and forced downtime and waiting around. This had a side effect of encouraging community communication for entertainment purposes. Remember staring at your spell book? the only interesting thing that you could do then was chat with people. Say what you will about the broken gameplay- it totally encouraged social interaction and community.
Im exactly the same. While I havent tried many current mmos I have totally given up on them for now. Back when I played my first 2 mmos (everquest and FFXI) I felt like part of a community. For some reason I never once felt rushed to grind my ass nonstop to get to max level so I can grind more and get better loot to be the best ever. Sure there was a ton of grinding but for some reason I just never felt rushed and always had other fun things to do. I enjoyed replying to people shouting that they needed help with some task. The community was just THAT much better back then.
In everquest I always had fun exploring new places or doing different things with friends. In FFXI I did the same and for some reason I was seriously addicted to the fishing. I also had regular people who would sit and chat with me while we fished together. In time they became my best friends in game and we occasionaly grouped together and such. In recent games (the WoW effect) the only thing other people wanted to talk to me about was the best way to get that new piece of gear or what certain method gained the highest xp per hour. I never felt part of a community and it was ALWAYS just about leveling up and gaining equipment.
After EQ and FFXI I played WoW for a year and it felt so freakin empty. Tried eq2 but it was nothing like eq, went on to vanguard and it started out ok (well it was horrible at launch so freaking buggy and no computer could run it apparently). But it had that same vast feeling and the community was great. then it employed instant travel and other such ez mode gimmicks which made me quit. I tried out some lesser games also but everything was that same grind grind race to the highest lvl feeling. I havent played any mmorpg in over a year. Im going to give the new FF a try but sadly I think im done with the genre.
That does sound interesting... ;o)
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Quite simple. They are games now, not a living "world" like alot once were. You go from point A to point B the same way each and every time.
Agreed 100%! This eloquently sums up my recent experiences in a variety of mmo's.
And to fyerwall, the second poster: I can't speak for the OP, of course, but for myself I will say that I do have other interests. My gaming is done in short bursts inbetween many other activities including walking, reading, working and so on. It isn't to do with being burnt out (at least I don't think it is), it's something to do with feeling a sense of alienation from the majority of players who seem to want to whizz through the game as fast as possible to achieve their virtual goals.
I like to take my time, enjoy the journey, smell the roses, chat to other players and, hopefully, get some sense of immersion in a fantasy ennvironment which I can explore to my heart's content.
You are hopping from MMO to MMO because they pretty much all suck. I haven't had one hold my interest since PreCU SWG. They are all just the same game now with different skins. Only Darkfall, Fallen Earth, and EVE have much uniqueness to them, and neither of them holds my interest very long.
I'm hoping Infiniti: Earth releases in the next few years. Holding out a lot of hope for Earthrise as well. Even Mortal Online, with all it's issues right now, plays enough like Elder Scrolls Oblivion to make me want to keep playing it, IF they fix the problems from beta.
Tecmo Bowl.
Reason to love old MMORPG's?
They were made for love of the hole concept, dungeons, swords, magic and the rest, they were made with love not as a huge money making opportunity.
Reason your bored of these new and older games?
The old games are just that old, look dated, everyone in them is normally hugely powerful already, your playing catch up in areas where no one else is, then you come across someone who doesnt even speak your language...
New games are clones of old ones, without the love and soul, with money making in mind (WOW clone - mentality)
My advice to you?
You need something new, something different, be that EVE, or maybe try an indie game, something where it was made for love of the genre, DARKFALL comes to mind, if not then wait for TERA or B&S, as atleast they offer a new mindset of gameplay, and look hugely pretty and polished....
Also a game at release means everyone around you also doesnt have a clue what to do, its about the adventure, exploration, trial and error, thats the fun of a MMORPG, doing all that with others...
Wait for a new game to be released thats innovative then you can enjoy your time with players around you.
Ex. myth of soma, legend of mir, mu online and eudemons online player.
Current game : Runescape (until pc build is complete)
I've played many MMO's including WoW, EQ, LOTRO, Allods, Perfect world, etc. and They are all the same exact thing. Go do this and go do that... I'm sick of running errands for people its all just rinse and repeat All I want to do kill stuff, craft, socialize, and explore. I recently got into Darkfall and it's one of the best mmo's I have Ever played. I'll hang out and kill some mobs where I skill up get materials for crafting/pvp and get gear at the same time. It's a win win situation because I never find myself bored. There is always something to do like go defend my Hamlet with my 10 other clan mates or help out the NEW clan in the city right next to us. I find it has the most satisfying feeling of any MMO I have every played. Example: The other day I was mining and using a strong box to stash my loot which I had hidden in a bush. I heard somebody fighting mobs nearby and I stashed all the stuff I didn't want to lose and started stalking him. I hid behind rocks and bushes and waited for the perfect moment to strike. I saw that he was looting a grave and was at about 3/4 health so I jumped out of my hiding place hit him with my axe a few times and bam he was dead. My heart was racing and my hands were shaking because I didn't know how good he was or what he was going to do. I could barely loot the grave cause my hands were shaking so much. I went and banked all the loot I had scored and Messaged the guy and had a friendly conversation with him and wished each other good luck. This is why I keep playing. People in the game don't care about loot or gear, They care about having fun and interacting with other people. Darkfall is so different then any other MMO because I don't feel dependent on gear to be good. Also, I'm free to do whatever I want and isn't that what mmo's were made for? Anyways If you're sick of all these rinse and repeat MMO's you should give it a try. And if you don't want to play Darkfall, Hell go play eve It's almost as good. The important thing is Don't play generic MMO's you'll find yourself bored very quickly cause it's the same exact thing as everything else
Sentinel’s Fate is probably one of the better expansions SOE has done where a level cap was raised. They seem to have gotten that people want the ability to choose how they will level be it group or solo rather being forced down one path or the other. The breakdown for me from 80 to 90 was about 6 levels solo and 4 levels in groups.
As for your general lack of interest in “grinding, quests, and raiding” at the end of the day that’s what a MMO is. I can play a MMO by myself for 20-50 hours or so if it’s a interesting concept but sooner or later I just get tired of the game. It’s the social interaction that makes MMO’s worth playing for years. The other activities you are talking about are just thinly veiled excuses to get together in the first place.
If you are playing a MMO like you would any other single player game then don’t expect it to keep your interest any longer than one.