Got to be Runescape, had so much fun racing my friends through the levels on that, and loved setting targets and then working at completing them.
Playing: Xsyon. Played: Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
I agree with most here, if you enjoy it, its not a grind...
but to reach the "carrot" of grinding out to max level.. I'd have to go with Warhammer. Being able to continually PvP for exp. was one of the few things Mythic got right.
I enjoyed the SWG precu grind. My guildmates and/or friends would get together and kill beasts to level up, then sell the hides, meat, etc and split the profits. These grinding parties sometimes led to the beginnings of some great adventures.
UO had the best grind IMHO. Taking most skills from 0 to 70-80ish wasn't that bad and once you got to the 70-80ish skill there was a host of different mobs to kill and things to craft or gather. Some of the mobs were easy some really hard but if you were good and lucky you could manage to kill them. Plus there was always several other skills you could work up if you got tired of grinding that one.
This is the flaw in level based games. There are not enough mini milestones to lessen the grind from level to level. So you get what we have now speed leveling.
Despite it having the largest level grind of all the games I've played, FFXI is the one I've enjoyed the most.
Pretty sure it's because of the forced grouping, complex party mechanics and actively social community.
This is my answer as well. I had more fun waiting around with my team at Valkrum Dunes for a healer than I have playing most games. The party just sat around and shot the breeze until we could find someone and most people were fun to talk to and hang with.
For me was Ragnarok Online, which is like all grind from what I remember. I must say though, it was the friends that I played with that made the game enjoyable.
Every game has grinding in it no matter how hard devs try to take it out or how fun it is. You might not think you are grinding but you are. The clear definition that is globally acknowledged by everyones is something that is repetitive to obtain a certain goal. Crafting is the most obvious form of grind. You have to grind resources and everything to obtain the mats to create a certain object. Also you might not believe this but killing things no matter what it is is also a grind. You are repeatedly killing objects to obtain lvls. The only reason people might not think it is a grind is because you are doing different quests and stuff. No one can deny this no matter what you say. It is like saying an apple is not an apple.
Anyways my favorite game that I did not mind the grind was original EQ. Like other posters have said it was really fun grouping up with people killing stuff and then talking.
I think the grind I enjoyed the most was the quest grind in Guild Wars. It might have been due to the instanced nature of Guild Wars, but the quests were interesting, and like someone else said, I think they're more like dungeon runs as well, because you have to plow through enemies to get through to your objective, and I really did like that. It also helped that the combat in Guild Wars (especially on Ritualists) is extremely fun as well, and that did a lot to relieve the monotony that is the grind. Though I have to admit that I didn't even feel like grind at all when I played, I guess it does seem like grind to someone who does not enjoy what he or she is doing.
To answer in the spirit of the thread, I'd have to say EQ1- most memorably grinding Hill Giants with a pally friend of mine while playing my bard. Loads and loads of silliness and kiting fun.
My first toon on a PvP server on WoW is a close second, but that was more due to it being a brand new server (no ganking) and having a group of friends to regularly party with.
Probably one of the longest grinds in the history of mmos.
I think I didn't mind it because it was my first mmo. I wasn't spoiled by fedex quests or rested xp or any other garbage. The game was all about the trip to the top, not rushing to the end. Each level gave me a sence of accomplishment. Especially when the upper levels could take a month each. You died, you lost a full day's worth of grinding. You earned your level.
I couldn't do it nowadays, I just wouldn't have the time. But I still really enjoyed it back then.
The MORE choices of play, the less you even feel the grind.
Therefore, since World of Warcraft has so many different options of leveling you hardly feel any grind since you have a choice.
Leveling by doing (chained) quests, leveling through PvP, leveling by doing dungeons and group play, fast leveling (heirlooms) or very slow leveling (experience shut down in Pve)...
As soon as you are out of the initial levels of WOW, you choose the playing style you are in the mood in and ... advance.
My preferred gaming style is playing with experience turned off and only level the "hard way" in BG PvP while upping my professions and getting the best gear around my levels.
It can easely take months/years before reaching the end game this way and it is a blast because you are the boss in PvP BG's.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
DAoC for reasons mentioned. (it was hella grindy at release).
Incidentally just because some people enjoy grind does not mean that it is not grind. I guess the question is when does the range of stuff to do and strategies to employ to advance become diverse enough to be concidered 'not a grind'.
The one Grind moment I will never forget and enjoyed is going from 49-50 on my Spearo in DAOC. It took about 12 hours straight at the insta fins. I enjoyed it because pre nerf going from 46-50 felt like an accomplishment, it felt like going from 46-50 was the same as going from 1-45. What was so whack about the insta fins was that it was a "camped" spot that always had a waiting list, but once you got into the group it felt like the rite of passage before RvR (for many Hibs). Odd but fun.
For me I find it hard to say that I enjoyed a "grind" as I see it but in relation to the way you explain it I'd have to say number one would be the original "grind" in SWG from hunter to ch. That was my first mmo and anyone else here who remembers it remembers that grind was way brutal, atleast in relation to the games I've played since then. The only other "grind" on my list really would be the grind to max level in LOTRO simply because that is the only other mmo that really kept my interest to and through max level but I never really had the same thirst to reach max level there as I did with attaining ch in SWG, LOTRO was so much fun at the time I just enjoyed the journey. Honorable mention would go to the first epic mount in WOW.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I think people are mistaking grind for, "the leveling process.."
WoW and LotRO don't have grinds, they shouldn't be mentioned at all. If you can quest all the way to max level in a resonable time, your game has no grind.
When your game requires you to form up a group just to hunt mobs over and over again in a circle for no reward other than some xp, you have a grind.
I think people are mistaking grind for, "the leveling process.."
WoW and LotRO don't have grinds, they shouldn't be mentioned at all. If you can quest all the way to max level in a resonable time, your game has no grind.
When your game requires you to form up a group just to hunt mobs over and over again in a circle for no reward other than some xp, you have a grind.
Quest stacking is very much a grind.
Filling up a quest log over and over and over and over and over again is a repetative action therefore a grind.
Just like everything else in this damn genre.
No mmo is without one, its up to you to find the grind that you enjoy.
Filling up a quest log over and over and over and over and over again is a repetative action therefore a grind.
Just like everything else in this damn genre.
No mmo is without one, its up to you to find the grind that you enjoy.
Repetitve action = grind? Disagree. I can't think of a game in any genre that doesn't involve repetative actions.
If you are getting a quest gear reward, some xp, some gold, and some storyline to read, it's not a grind. It's playing the content of the game. If it's fun or well written or not is another issue.
I am aware that some games attempt to hide their grind behind "kill 10 rat" quests, but I still believe a game like LotRO, WoW, or Warhammer do not have anything that could be considered a grind when compared to questless games like FF or L2.
to be honest... I've never enjoyed any grind. EQ- or WoW. EQ's grind was punishing in places which didn't make it very fun, WoW its grind is so bloody transparent. Only sort of 'grind' I've enjoyed and not noticed is PvP.
Definitely SWG and Everquest. As someone said above with Final Fantasy, sitting around while the group grows, chatting it up with your fellow groupmates while smacking around mobs. I remember getting a group in EQ in one of the Karana's with the bird house. Getting a group, fighting your way to the top, and claiming the tree house and then camping for an hour or so was a blast. Same with fighting in the mines in High Keep.
SWG felt like even less of a grind because of how quickly you could advance with a group. You could master your character in a week and enjoy it, advancing through the skills and learning new abilities as you went along. However, if you were trying to achieve Jedi, it did get repetitive.
The people saying WoW and LotRo don't have grinds are completely wrong, they very well do have grinds, just not grind in the sense of korean mmo's. While filling up quest logs may not be a grind, consistantly killing mobs to collect "A" item to return to "B" quest giver. Over and over and over, equals out to be a pretty hefty mob grind. I remember a quest in wow that the items just would not drop, I spent over 2 hours killing the same monsters to get the item. While this may not have been very much, it is still grinding in the sense so you cannot say that both games do not have grinding. WoW tried other things to get rid of the same killing mob quests, like escorting people (While killing mobs to protect them) and flying around on drake missions (Which usually involved killing mobs) but it still ends up being a grind.
Comments
Got to be Runescape, had so much fun racing my friends through the levels on that, and loved setting targets and then working at completing them.
Playing: Xsyon.
Played:
Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
I agree with most here, if you enjoy it, its not a grind...
but to reach the "carrot" of grinding out to max level.. I'd have to go with Warhammer. Being able to continually PvP for exp. was one of the few things Mythic got right.
I enjoyed the SWG precu grind. My guildmates and/or friends would get together and kill beasts to level up, then sell the hides, meat, etc and split the profits. These grinding parties sometimes led to the beginnings of some great adventures.
UO had the best grind IMHO. Taking most skills from 0 to 70-80ish wasn't that bad and once you got to the 70-80ish skill there was a host of different mobs to kill and things to craft or gather. Some of the mobs were easy some really hard but if you were good and lucky you could manage to kill them. Plus there was always several other skills you could work up if you got tired of grinding that one.
This is the flaw in level based games. There are not enough mini milestones to lessen the grind from level to level. So you get what we have now speed leveling.
This is my answer as well. I had more fun waiting around with my team at Valkrum Dunes for a healer than I have playing most games. The party just sat around and shot the breeze until we could find someone and most people were fun to talk to and hang with.
I kinda miss those days.
Darkfall, the combat is fun enough to make it bearable to me, o and EVE if you have some people help you iskwise in the begining.
Playing EVE
Played Darkfall, Played Wow,
For me was Ragnarok Online, which is like all grind from what I remember. I must say though, it was the friends that I played with that made the game enjoyable.
Every game has grinding in it no matter how hard devs try to take it out or how fun it is. You might not think you are grinding but you are. The clear definition that is globally acknowledged by everyones is something that is repetitive to obtain a certain goal. Crafting is the most obvious form of grind. You have to grind resources and everything to obtain the mats to create a certain object. Also you might not believe this but killing things no matter what it is is also a grind. You are repeatedly killing objects to obtain lvls. The only reason people might not think it is a grind is because you are doing different quests and stuff. No one can deny this no matter what you say. It is like saying an apple is not an apple.
Anyways my favorite game that I did not mind the grind was original EQ. Like other posters have said it was really fun grouping up with people killing stuff and then talking.
I think the grind I enjoyed the most was the quest grind in Guild Wars. It might have been due to the instanced nature of Guild Wars, but the quests were interesting, and like someone else said, I think they're more like dungeon runs as well, because you have to plow through enemies to get through to your objective, and I really did like that. It also helped that the combat in Guild Wars (especially on Ritualists) is extremely fun as well, and that did a lot to relieve the monotony that is the grind. Though I have to admit that I didn't even feel like grind at all when I played, I guess it does seem like grind to someone who does not enjoy what he or she is doing.
Main characters:
Jinn Gone Quiet (Guild Wars)
Princess Pudding (Guild Wars)
Dark Age of Camelot
because I knew every single goblin I killed would help me better crush my enemies and help defend the frontier.
Also, because people grouped in that game and socialized, and the dungeons were so well done.
To answer in the spirit of the thread, I'd have to say EQ1- most memorably grinding Hill Giants with a pally friend of mine while playing my bard. Loads and loads of silliness and kiting fun.
My first toon on a PvP server on WoW is a close second, but that was more due to it being a brand new server (no ganking) and having a group of friends to regularly party with.
Lineage2. (Chronicle 3 I think, 75 was the cap)
Probably one of the longest grinds in the history of mmos.
I think I didn't mind it because it was my first mmo. I wasn't spoiled by fedex quests or rested xp or any other garbage. The game was all about the trip to the top, not rushing to the end. Each level gave me a sence of accomplishment. Especially when the upper levels could take a month each. You died, you lost a full day's worth of grinding. You earned your level.
I couldn't do it nowadays, I just wouldn't have the time. But I still really enjoyed it back then.
killing tons of mobs for quest but need to have no combat downtime
Manager
www.crucialconnexion.ca
Professional Gaming Organization
#c2team irc@gamesurge
Counter-Strike:Source
- ESEA-I
- CEVO-P
Counter-Strike 1.6
- ESEA-M
The MORE choices of play, the less you even feel the grind.
Therefore, since World of Warcraft has so many different options of leveling you hardly feel any grind since you have a choice.
Leveling by doing (chained) quests, leveling through PvP, leveling by doing dungeons and group play, fast leveling (heirlooms) or very slow leveling (experience shut down in Pve)...
As soon as you are out of the initial levels of WOW, you choose the playing style you are in the mood in and ... advance.
My preferred gaming style is playing with experience turned off and only level the "hard way" in BG PvP while upping my professions and getting the best gear around my levels.
It can easely take months/years before reaching the end game this way and it is a blast because you are the boss in PvP BG's.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
This. Because there was a point to the grind (the RvR was/is the best) and to be honest, I never really "felt" the grind like I have in games since.
UO and SWG? Loved every minute of everyday.
PAST: UO-SWG-DAOC-WOW-DDO-VG-AOC-WAR-FE-DFO-LOTRO-RIFT-GW2
PRESENT: Nothing
FUTURE: ESO
DAoC for reasons mentioned. (it was hella grindy at release).
Incidentally just because some people enjoy grind does not mean that it is not grind. I guess the question is when does the range of stuff to do and strategies to employ to advance become diverse enough to be concidered 'not a grind'.
The one Grind moment I will never forget and enjoyed is going from 49-50 on my Spearo in DAOC. It took about 12 hours straight at the insta fins. I enjoyed it because pre nerf going from 46-50 felt like an accomplishment, it felt like going from 46-50 was the same as going from 1-45. What was so whack about the insta fins was that it was a "camped" spot that always had a waiting list, but once you got into the group it felt like the rite of passage before RvR (for many Hibs). Odd but fun.
For me I find it hard to say that I enjoyed a "grind" as I see it but in relation to the way you explain it I'd have to say number one would be the original "grind" in SWG from hunter to ch. That was my first mmo and anyone else here who remembers it remembers that grind was way brutal, atleast in relation to the games I've played since then. The only other "grind" on my list really would be the grind to max level in LOTRO simply because that is the only other mmo that really kept my interest to and through max level but I never really had the same thirst to reach max level there as I did with attaining ch in SWG, LOTRO was so much fun at the time I just enjoyed the journey. Honorable mention would go to the first epic mount in WOW.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I think people are mistaking grind for, "the leveling process.."
WoW and LotRO don't have grinds, they shouldn't be mentioned at all. If you can quest all the way to max level in a resonable time, your game has no grind.
When your game requires you to form up a group just to hunt mobs over and over again in a circle for no reward other than some xp, you have a grind.
Quest stacking is very much a grind.
Filling up a quest log over and over and over and over and over again is a repetative action therefore a grind.
Just like everything else in this damn genre.
No mmo is without one, its up to you to find the grind that you enjoy.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Repetitve action = grind? Disagree. I can't think of a game in any genre that doesn't involve repetative actions.
If you are getting a quest gear reward, some xp, some gold, and some storyline to read, it's not a grind. It's playing the content of the game. If it's fun or well written or not is another issue.
I am aware that some games attempt to hide their grind behind "kill 10 rat" quests, but I still believe a game like LotRO, WoW, or Warhammer do not have anything that could be considered a grind when compared to questless games like FF or L2.
to be honest... I've never enjoyed any grind. EQ- or WoW. EQ's grind was punishing in places which didn't make it very fun, WoW its grind is so bloody transparent. Only sort of 'grind' I've enjoyed and not noticed is PvP.
Definitely SWG and Everquest. As someone said above with Final Fantasy, sitting around while the group grows, chatting it up with your fellow groupmates while smacking around mobs. I remember getting a group in EQ in one of the Karana's with the bird house. Getting a group, fighting your way to the top, and claiming the tree house and then camping for an hour or so was a blast. Same with fighting in the mines in High Keep.
SWG felt like even less of a grind because of how quickly you could advance with a group. You could master your character in a week and enjoy it, advancing through the skills and learning new abilities as you went along. However, if you were trying to achieve Jedi, it did get repetitive.
I enjoy every grind that doesnt involve combat. Fishing, gathering, etc. Its relaxing.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
The people saying WoW and LotRo don't have grinds are completely wrong, they very well do have grinds, just not grind in the sense of korean mmo's. While filling up quest logs may not be a grind, consistantly killing mobs to collect "A" item to return to "B" quest giver. Over and over and over, equals out to be a pretty hefty mob grind. I remember a quest in wow that the items just would not drop, I spent over 2 hours killing the same monsters to get the item. While this may not have been very much, it is still grinding in the sense so you cannot say that both games do not have grinding. WoW tried other things to get rid of the same killing mob quests, like escorting people (While killing mobs to protect them) and flying around on drake missions (Which usually involved killing mobs) but it still ends up being a grind.