Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
What's so bad about the cash shop?
halfmystic
Member RarePosts: 535
No, really, I kinda wanna know what makes everyone cry about the cash shop.
I played Allods in the beta and I am trying to decide weither or not to continue playing or if I should avoid it if it's just a huge money sink.
What are the kinda times you can buy to make you "OP"?
Are there equipment upgrades via the cash shop?
What makes the CS unbalanced?
What makes you pissed off in about the development Allods? I wanna know! It seems like a great game!
Thank you.
Comments
You're kinda late for the whole CS debacle. The big issue was that the CS items were WAY overpriced. Like, 10X what was being asked for in Russia, and Gpotato even admitted to pricing things for a "core market" or some crap which basically meant "well we expected some idiots to pay out the ass for it anyway, so we gave it a shot". Since then the prices have become reasonable.
The main point of contention was the FoD mechanic, wherein if you die, you lose 25% of your stats for upwards of 30min to a few hours. This stacks four times. The only way to rid yourself of it is with Incense items which are on the CS. They cost $3 for a bundle of 20 now, which at 30min a pop and only really needing to be used during raids/heavy PvP, isn't that bad. However, they used to cost considerably more.
In the future it's going to be more of a moot point however as FoD is being removed and the Patron system revamped, at least it is in the RU version. Gpotato has actually been playing the good guy for once (likely because they don't want to lose more subscribers) and have been putting off localizing the horrendous patches that were ripping apart the RU servers, so eventually FoD should be a moot point.
Don't listen to anyone going on and on about runes being an issue. Most of them have no idea how the rune system works or exaggerate the influence the CS has on them. You can get picks that have a fairly large one time cost that improve your chance of removing/combining runes, and that's about it. The bigger cost is in the chips used in the process. It helps a bit, but it hasn't been a game breaker from what I've seen thus far.
The biggest concerns seem to be with how CS centric development is obviously being driven. For every thing that gets fixed or overturned to be less CS dependent, something else crops up in its place. They seem to be focusing on adding more consumable and repeated expenditure items, rather than adding customization items and things that don't directly effect the playability of the game.
That being said, it's fairly fun. PvP is in need of balancing though and there are still some bugs with abilities and such. The Astral part of the end-game is pretty much the driving force to keep playing as it's very cool. People have been complaining and trying to goad for some kind of nerf of cash shop item to reduce the time to make an astral ship, but personally I like it where it is. I'd rather they be an accomplishment you have to work for than something handed out to everyone who grinds to 40.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
edit look above
The people crying about the CS are the same people who cry about every cash shop. They don't grasp the fundamentals of the f2p model, it isnt Allods specific.
-------------------------
I heard they removed FoD in the russian one or were planning on it. Is this true?
When you see items that cost $1600 US thats not an every cash shop game type item. Allods had items priced where no game has gone before. In this case the ranting was Allods specific and rightly so.
I really don't mind a cash shop, I just got to lvl40 in Allods myself and put in a fair amount of money into the game during my levelling.
But during that time I've seen how badly priced and setup Allods Cash shop really is. The single worst thing is Incense / Perfumes, at lvl40 it gives you a massive advantage with probably around a 40%+ boost to HP and Mana. That makes a huge difference in PVP (and PVE). That's not taking into account the whole FOD issue. There really is no hiding the fact that Incense is just way to important and gives a massive advantage.
I stopped because it's just too costs too much money and in the end, Allods hasn't got any real PVP to keep you busy. I really like the game otherwise. Allods looks great, it plays very well and got some very interesting classes. But the prices in the shop, the lack of real PVP and class balance means I've left.
Personally I will keep an eye on how Allods develop and might come back if and when:
1. Either Incense is changed in how it works or priced much cheaper
2. Some type of real PVP is added
Play: -
Played: FFXIV, WAR, Allods, Aion, AoC, DDO, EQ2, GW, Lotro, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WoW
very true!some f2p model are bad!but saying ALL are bad!is like saying all p2p are bad
its wrong!most f2p are working very hard to find an acceptable tradeoff for gamer and for the business model to make enough
to pay the bills!
What I don't undersand about the whole thing is, this is nothing new but for some reason just because it's on a PC now it's a bad thing. No one seems to mind Microsoft or Sony doing it. In fact I rarely see anyone complaing about those services at all but as soon as it even gets mentioned in a PC game suddenly it's as if we have to begin paying for every breath we take.
For F2P games I know it's neccesary so unless the shops prices are on the extreme side there should be little to no complaints at all because just like a console, you know what you are getting going into it. For monthly sub games, just as long as it doesn't give anyone with a fat wallet an instant and overpowering advantage I could care less. If it's fluff it's optional, that means you can have it if you want it but you don't need it. I'm fine with that. I'm even fine with being able to buy things that you can get by playing the game.
The way I see it, if someone wants to spend 30-40 hours a week on a game to get a special item and they have the tiime to give up that's fine, but for those who use that time elsewhere like at a job or raising kids, or both, who cares if they want to spend money to get something they don't have the time to spend in game getting it. One way or another the item is still being earned, either through free time, or by time spent making money.
I don't think many people really argue the need for a cash shop. Most of us do understand that they got to earn money somehow, which is absolutely fine. The issue with Allods is that the neccessary items, mainly Incense is overpriced and gives a massive advantage. The people behind Allods got the market all wrong, I'm sure they could easily make money with a more sensible priced shop and less overpowered or unbalanced items.
It's a great game but they don't seem to understand their players or even the market.
Play: -
Played: FFXIV, WAR, Allods, Aion, AoC, DDO, EQ2, GW, Lotro, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WoW
Isn't Allods CS the first one to offer ZERO fluff/vanity items and 100% items/potions with effects?
I'm not up in arms about it. I just prefer to play a game without having to think about real money while I play it. I prefer paying a sub, know I've got the whole package and not have to think about it. With a CS the focus of the devs becomes "How can we get them to spend more money?" The focus is no longer on the game, its on marketing items.
The Allods debacle did finally highlight to everyone else though the primary problem with the F2P model and why it doesn't quite "work" as well as the P2P one. Namely, that it puts too much power in the hands of the developers to force you into the CS. Often the companies behind F2P games end up running a bait and switch where they let the game run until people are invested in it, and then release a patch that shoots the legs off the game and forces you to obliterate your wallet on the CS to do the most basic things. In other words, you need to have an ethical business (hahahahahahahaha) for the system to work.
"Isn't Allods CS the first one to offer ZERO fluff/vanity items and 100% items/potions with effects?"
Pretty much, which is very lame. Kind of stupid too as most people will avoid "pay to win" bullshit, but people love vanity/customization options and they often rake in more money with those even if they are one time purchases and require making art assets for the game, simply because more people buy them rather than being forced to keep buying consumables.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
Yes, more or less everything in the shop is useful or makes a real difference to the game. I never bothered with the pots or buffs, seemed very highly prices compared to what they gave you in return. I did buy a bigger bag, holy rune, water of life and lots of Incense / Perfume. Once you get to the endgame and max lvl the only thing that you will really need to buy is Incense and Crystals (used for making better runes which in return are used to upgrade items slightly).
Play: -
Played: FFXIV, WAR, Allods, Aion, AoC, DDO, EQ2, GW, Lotro, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WoW
It's really a shame, because I really love the whole Astral/Allods concept for a game world, but there just isn't much there /=. The ship feature sounds amazing, but the rest of the game is a pretty shallow quest grind with some interesting story here and there, with a thick layer of cash shop frosting smeared over everything /=. I just don't really see the game going anywhere, especially for US players who have to wait forever to updates to come through. Hell, horses have taken an eternity just because there's been so much drama with them trying to force feed the CS to people on the RU servers as well, causing the patch to get held back. Content has been very slow coming.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
So, now that players confirmed there is zero fluff, you might want to take your conclusions by yourself on what you will be buying on the CS and the reason you will be buying them. That little edge with potions, removing the death penalty that also applies when you die due to open world PvP (you have a daily quest to receive ONE perfume to remove it) or that remaining stuff you need to upgrade your equipment, or if you have the money you can just go and upgrade your equipment just using money (runes). Yeah you can buy perfume from others, but that just means someone else paid for you and you spent game time to compensate that.
If you feel comfortable or don't mind with that as the only objective reason to buy stuff in a CS, go ahead, it will be a great game for you.
Their talking of removing f.o.d. from the game but, but in its place their adding 'cursed items'
here your equipment can become cursed when you die causing it to become less effective and after a few curses eventually break or something, i'm really not sure what the cursed items will actually do but the cure for that will probably be sold in the cash shop.
So who is the free to play market for?
The free to play market is for people who don't want to pay a monthly fee. They want to have fun playing an mmorpg, but don't want to feel like they are loosing out on money if they can't aford to play every day.
It is also for people that do not have the money to spend on a pay to play game. It may be teens or colege students with tight budgets, or people who are under employed and barely keep the internet on in the first place.
You may think poor people would be a poor target audience. This is not so. People on tight budgets or with low income will still find ways to save enough money over a couple of months to spend it on something they want.
The free to play market was designed to apeal to these people. Because contrary to popular beleif, there are more of these people than there are people with money to burn.
Greed is where it all falls down. They stop seeing the game as a product and start to see it as a cash printing machine.
So, instead of securing a steady revanue stream, they take a bet, that there are at least 5,000 people out there that will pay them $100.00 per month without realizing.
That's $500,000.00
I suppose you could secure the safe revenue stream, and get $1.00 per month from 200,000 people for the foreseeable future, but that's only $200,000.00. And you have to keep running the game. For the forseable future.
That's why every free to play game in the world is nothing more than an attempt to part a fool from his money.
Cash grabs... nothing more.
Go pay your subscription fee to the people that are actually trying to create a GOOD game.
Sanity is a delusion. The only truth is madness.
It's not that there are items in the Allods cash shop that fast-track your character or make it 'OP' - it's that the game mechanics make items such as potions and rune chips from the cash shop mandatory to play the game.
That is what really upsets people as I understand it (including me).
Yes - these items will be on the auction house - but will there be enough supply? How much am I going to have to grind to keep myself supplied with these items to play regularly? It's just too much uncertainty and trouble to go to.
"If all you can say is... "It's awful, it's not innovative, it's ugly, it's blah.." Then you're an unimaginative and unpolished excuse for human life" -eburn