Wow is destroying the MMO genre, thats why I hate it.
I will admit that once WOW was good, but that was years ago. Its far past time that people should move on. Its no longer a succesfull game in terms of the game itself, but of the playerbase it already has.
There are some great innovative games that have come out over the last few years,and some on the way. But they will not get the attention and players they truly derserve.
For example, somebody who has never played a mmo wants to start playing - they look and ask about, and what do they see and hear. 1000-1 people are saying I play wow and its the best game there is!, and WOW has 11mill subs, compared to X game that has only 100k subs. Of course the choice is obvious to a new player.
From my experience of WOW, apart from the population there is nothing that makes it stand out from the crowd. The things listed by the OP can all be found in other games, and usualy much better. But when a minority voice goes up against a horde of voices the outcome will always be the same.
Its a sad time for MMO's
And if you think that WOW will start introducing content that is innovative and fresh to the MMO genre, just think, why would they, they are already raking in all this money off a years old game, so there is no need too.
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
People need something to blame and complain about.. period. WoW is a great example for the scapegoat throne due to its success and how that success has effected the MMORPG genre. WoW could be redone to be the overall best of everything and people will still find plenty of things to hate about it no matter what. WoW is just the latest version of the band wagon "blame train" for all the "cool kids" to come together and gang up on.
Every niche genre has their scapegoats: black metal has Dimmu Borgir, MMORPGs have WoW. Dont expect any iota of reasoning to come from this thread, people dont need solid reasons to hate this game or even a personal experience that they can draw from to hate this game, they will hate it, just to hate it...for no good reason whatsoever.
I think there is a bit of a 'What have the Romans ever done for us?' syndrome when it comes to WoW. It is an obvious target of hatred because it dominates the genre but if you actually break the game down it does a lot things very well. If WoW had just 200k subscriptions it would be no more hated than any other game.
After all, apart from great animations, responsive controls, vast amounts of content, a flexible UI and a broad range of options for both PvE and PvP what has WoW ever done for it's players?
Lmao how many time has this question over the years a 1000 ? 10000? i dont feel im exagerating either geesh, (Cyphers: i don't think you're exaggerating, no)
But to answer your question and I'll keep it simple, there were the special MMO's before WoW like Ultima,EQ1,AC,DAOC, the ones that WoW copied off which isnt a bad thing in itself but here it is, its not the game people who know what there talking about hate its the path the game sent all the MMO's that followed it on, which is basicly carebear lane.
So to reliterate its not WoW its what the market changed into after WoW.
And this.
Nothing is preventing you from playing those "special" ones and stop hating a game for taking the market by storm.
Everyone of the special ones are there for the grabs. Play them and enjoy them.
Apparently you don't ... and can't but complain... Ever wondered why?
Apparently you chose to neglect my other posts in this thread in which I stated that there's less real hatred or fanboism going around than people give credit for; then again, a number of people can only see the world in black & white and extremes.
Since you thought of singling out my quote for your post, I'm going to answer it as well: as I've mentioned several times on these forums, I enjoyed (and still do) playing a number of MMO's, even WoW when I played it and even a Champions Online. You assumed wrong (as expected, since that fits in seeing the world in b&w) about me not enjoying other MMO's and you assumed wrong in me doing anything but complaining, so your last question is irrelevant.
Ever wondered why so many people tell you on these forums that you assume things wrong? Or wondered why you feel the need to post daily on a non-WOW specific, general MMO gaming forum, while your posts show clearly that you only like WoW and find all other MMO's crap?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
People need something to blame and complain about.. period. WoW is a great example for the scapegoat throne due to its success and how that success has effected the MMORPG genre. WoW could be redone to be the overall best of everything and people will still find plenty of things to hate about it no matter what. WoW is just the latest version of the band wagon "blame train" for all the "cool kids" to come together and gang up on.
Every niche genre has their scapegoats: black metal has Dimmu Borgir, MMORPGs have WoW. Dont expect any iota of reasoning to come from this thread, people dont need solid reasons to hate this game or even a personal experience that they can draw from to hate this game, they will hate it, just to hate it...for no good reason whatsoever.
That's what i think: Music has Britney Spears, MMORPGs have WoW.
The same reason people hate Titanic and Twilight for? because it is cool to do so.
Or maybe people thought those movies were crap or mediocre at best and not to their taste.
(tbh, I liked Twilight as popcorn entertainment even if the target audience was clearly teen girls)
No matter what subject or area - gaming, music, politics, beliefs -, people will always seek out likeminded others with which they share some of their tastes and grudges, likes and dislikes.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The same reason people hate Titanic and Twilight for? because it is cool to do so.
Or maybe people thought those movies were crap or mediocre at best and not to their taste.
(tbh, I liked Twilight as popcorn entertainment even if the target audience was clearly teen girls)
No matter what subject or area - gaming, music, politics, beliefs -, people will always seek out likeminded others with which they share some of their tastes and grudges, likes and dislikes.
Anything that is popular has its haters but they are not in majority and that is why they make the most noise. There is nothing wrong with having different taste but to make others feel inferior or stupid because they enjoy something like Twilight or WOW just shows that some people have serious self esteem issues.
At the OP. People hate BC. BC was a waste and was just a shitty expansion until WotLK, and by the time WotLK came out i quit WoW because BC was so lame.
People hate WoW because it is the main MMORPG. I don't like it anymore because it is boring, i don't hate it.
Anything that is popular has its haters but they are not in majority and that is why they make the most noise. There is nothing wrong with having different taste but to make others feel inferior or stupid because they enjoy something like Twilight or WOW or any other MMO they like and enthuse about just shows that some people have serious self esteem issues.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It's cool to dislike/hate whatever is popular and I think it's just a sad trend. You watch, if something topples WoW and then becomes "too popular" people will hate on it too. I'm looking at SWTOR for this to happen to. Of course people will love it at first and then whine and bitch later on and be two-faced and act like they never liked it to begin with later on. Happens all the time with musical artists and movies and things too. People go with the trends. Like little robot sheep or something. It's seriously sad.
Its a highely and the most successful online game ever thats why. lol i love it still i think what people hate the most its like watchin the same episode over and over again the content too easy and we fly through it then we get bored playing the rerun. community wise its great.
I like to refer to WoW as the GENERIC mmorpg. It resembles many that came before it but it's not as good as the ones that came before it. Blizzard is the Wal-mart of the MMO industry. Very successful but not always providing the highest quality product or expereince. It's known around the world by brand name WoWmart. I don't hate WoW. I do hate the fact that almost every game developer out there wants to emulate WoW in a sense hoping for the same success instead of focusing on what us gamers want. We all love Wal-mart but we don't all want another clone of it. The gaming world doesnt want or need another World of Warcraft and thats where the dissent towards WoW lays.
Never once heard it called WoWmart ever actually. It's not Blizz or WoW's fault if every unoriginal hack of a MMO designer out there tries to copy WoW. It's the designers fault for not having an original idea in his head.
I tried WoW, and just didn't like it. I don't feel the need to constantly bash it at all. But then, as people have said, other developers feel the need to emulate WoW, a game which I have never liked. Its made worse by the fact that WoW has such a large population that their playerbase finds their way to every forum for an MMO in development and make posts about how "This game needs to be more like WoW." when the game looks very good as it is.
So, like I said, I don't HATE WoW, I'm just tired of all the people who want every new game to be WoW.
People hate on WOW not because of the game itself per se (game mechanics are always debatable) but the fact that due to it's success OTHER game developers tried to copy it making a sea of WOW clones in the process. The non-WOW gamers have to sort through (and wasting their time and money in the process) this sea of bad replicas and hence become fustrated and inadvertently "blame" WOW for. WOW is the scapegoat for the bad games that are released.
People hate on WOW not because of the game itself per se (game mechanics are always debatable) but the fact that due to it's success OTHER game developers tried to copy it making a sea of WOW clones in the process. The non-WOW gamers have to sort through (and wasting their time and money in the process) this sea of bad replicas and hence become fustrated and inadvertently "blame" WOW for. WOW is the scapegoat for the bad games that are released.
Just like I said. It's not WoW's fault all these no talent morons copy them. Its the other MMOs fault for not really being good or original and thinking they can get by with copying WoW. A lot of of these people churning out MMOs have no talent or originality. They just want as much of they pie as they can get and they hear "WoWpie" is good so they copy that and never think to really come up with their own ideas. Or if they do their own ideas are crappily done. There are so many other ideas that could be done for some decent MMOs but nobody does them. I mean what about a Western? Zombie Apocalypse? Sci-Fi? Historical? Midevil Japan? Vampires? SOMETHING new? Nope. Every no talent hack wants to copy WoW cause it's successful without realizing "Gee if my customers wanted WoW wouldn't they play WoW instead?"
Never once heard it called WoWmart ever actually. It's not Blizz or WoW's fault if every unoriginal hack of a MMO designer out there tries to copy WoW. It's the designers fault for not having an original idea in his head.
You have it backwards. WOW took from all that came before it and tweaked on those idea's. Nothing really about WoW was orginal other then their storyline. What made WoW so successful was alot obout when it was released. Their really hasn't been an awesome game released since the best of pre-World of Warcraft. The only thing in the 2 years i played WoW off and on that i liked and missed in other games was the mail and AH system. Other then that all others did it better in every area namely PVP. What made WoW popular was its HUGE warcraft fan base.
Blizzard marketed the game by advertising hard which was smart. It's a relatively easy game to play with low system demands compared to modern day game requirements. WoW is the perfect CASUAL GAMER GAME. It captured the casual gamer market all the while putting us hardcore gamers out to pasture who demand much more from a game. Thats why i brand it WoW-mart. Has alot of nice items but if you need a specialty item you need to go to a specialty shop and the market needs a game that tailors to the specialty/hardcore player. I actually want a fantasy based MMORPG game that sorts the casual gamer out. Maybe somebody will in the future have the guts to market one for us that prefer something different, something more challenging.
Everytime I hear oldschool gamers talk about their hatred for WoW (which is ridiculous, it's just a video game, find something more reasonable to hate on) I think of Stewie from family guy saying "I don't like change!"
Its a highely and the most successful online game ever thats why. lol i love it still i think what people hate the most its like watchin the same episode over and over again the content too easy and we fly through it then we get bored playing the rerun. community wise its great.
Really?
I think the community is pretty awful.
Last thing I heard they don't even care to speak to one another in the PUGs anymore hows that for community?
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Everytime I hear oldschool gamers talk about their hatred for WoW (which is ridiculous, it's just a video game, find something more reasonable to hate on) I think of Stewie from family guy saying "I don't like change!"
See video:
You know Im an old school gamer I stared with M59, then UO I beta tested EQ and was a Guide there for years. Most of the gamers that hate WoW aren't Old school...there just bitter.
This sword here at my side dont act the way it should Keeps calling me its master, but I feel like its slave Hauling me faster and faster to an early, early grave And it howls! it howls like hell!
Well, my intense hatred of wow comes from the simplistic mmo design. There's a lot of great things about wow, as the op adequately mentions. But despite all those great things wow is a dumbed down mmo with little to no freedom. I find that ultimately to be the anti-thesis of the mmo concept (at least as I see it). I would imagine that I am biased as my first mmo was swg. After the freedom of that game, wow is a letdown despite many superior mechanics.
But all that there is a reason to dislike a mmo, not hate it. Yeah, my hate comes from the fact that Blizzard has more than enough money to really expand wow and make it something close to what I would consider a full fledged mmo should have. But Blizzard purposely chooses to leave wow a dumbed down game completely focused on the masses. As a business person myself, I understand the philosophy, but that doesn't make me hate it any less; and ultimately I disagree with the concept from both a business and mmo point of view.
I think people like to blame WoW for the problems with other games due to its success. They equate the failures of other developers to trying to be like WoW and they are right in many cases. However, that is now WoW's fault. It is the fault of other developers for trying to copy it so much.
Because it has scared above 90% of the people putting money into this genre into creating anything remotely different as gameplay mechanics. Which is what every Blizzard game does actually.
"The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands, To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming! On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
Comments
Wow is destroying the MMO genre, thats why I hate it.
I will admit that once WOW was good, but that was years ago. Its far past time that people should move on. Its no longer a succesfull game in terms of the game itself, but of the playerbase it already has.
There are some great innovative games that have come out over the last few years,and some on the way. But they will not get the attention and players they truly derserve.
For example, somebody who has never played a mmo wants to start playing - they look and ask about, and what do they see and hear. 1000-1 people are saying I play wow and its the best game there is!, and WOW has 11mill subs, compared to X game that has only 100k subs. Of course the choice is obvious to a new player.
From my experience of WOW, apart from the population there is nothing that makes it stand out from the crowd. The things listed by the OP can all be found in other games, and usualy much better. But when a minority voice goes up against a horde of voices the outcome will always be the same.
Its a sad time for MMO's
And if you think that WOW will start introducing content that is innovative and fresh to the MMO genre, just think, why would they, they are already raking in all this money off a years old game, so there is no need too.
Core i5 13600KF, BeQuiet Pure Loop FX 360, 32gb DDR5-6000 XPG, WD SN850 NVMe ,PNY 3090 XLR8, Asus Prime Z790-A, Lian-Li O11 PCMR case (limited ed 1045/2000), 32" LG Ultragear 4k Monitor, Logitech G560 LightSync Sound, Razer Deathadder V2 and Razer Blackwidow V3 Keyboard
People need something to blame and complain about.. period. WoW is a great example for the scapegoat throne due to its success and how that success has effected the MMORPG genre. WoW could be redone to be the overall best of everything and people will still find plenty of things to hate about it no matter what. WoW is just the latest version of the band wagon "blame train" for all the "cool kids" to come together and gang up on.
Every niche genre has their scapegoats: black metal has Dimmu Borgir, MMORPGs have WoW. Dont expect any iota of reasoning to come from this thread, people dont need solid reasons to hate this game or even a personal experience that they can draw from to hate this game, they will hate it, just to hate it...for no good reason whatsoever.
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
I think there is a bit of a 'What have the Romans ever done for us?' syndrome when it comes to WoW. It is an obvious target of hatred because it dominates the genre but if you actually break the game down it does a lot things very well. If WoW had just 200k subscriptions it would be no more hated than any other game.
After all, apart from great animations, responsive controls, vast amounts of content, a flexible UI and a broad range of options for both PvE and PvP what has WoW ever done for it's players?
Apparently you chose to neglect my other posts in this thread in which I stated that there's less real hatred or fanboism going around than people give credit for; then again, a number of people can only see the world in black & white and extremes.
Since you thought of singling out my quote for your post, I'm going to answer it as well: as I've mentioned several times on these forums, I enjoyed (and still do) playing a number of MMO's, even WoW when I played it and even a Champions Online. You assumed wrong (as expected, since that fits in seeing the world in b&w) about me not enjoying other MMO's and you assumed wrong in me doing anything but complaining, so your last question is irrelevant.
Ever wondered why so many people tell you on these forums that you assume things wrong? Or wondered why you feel the need to post daily on a non-WOW specific, general MMO gaming forum, while your posts show clearly that you only like WoW and find all other MMO's crap?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That's what i think: Music has Britney Spears, MMORPGs have WoW.
It's real simple. It's really not the game that people love to hate on but the players/fanboys.
The same reason people hate Titanic and Twilight for? because it is cool to do so.
Or maybe people thought those movies were crap or mediocre at best and not to their taste.
(tbh, I liked Twilight as popcorn entertainment even if the target audience was clearly teen girls)
No matter what subject or area - gaming, music, politics, beliefs -, people will always seek out likeminded others with which they share some of their tastes and grudges, likes and dislikes.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Anything that is popular has its haters but they are not in majority and that is why they make the most noise. There is nothing wrong with having different taste but to make others feel inferior or stupid because they enjoy something like Twilight or WOW just shows that some people have serious self esteem issues.
At the OP. People hate BC. BC was a waste and was just a shitty expansion until WotLK, and by the time WotLK came out i quit WoW because BC was so lame.
People hate WoW because it is the main MMORPG. I don't like it anymore because it is boring, i don't hate it.
Fixed it, and I agree with all of it
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It's cool to dislike/hate whatever is popular and I think it's just a sad trend. You watch, if something topples WoW and then becomes "too popular" people will hate on it too. I'm looking at SWTOR for this to happen to. Of course people will love it at first and then whine and bitch later on and be two-faced and act like they never liked it to begin with later on. Happens all the time with musical artists and movies and things too. People go with the trends. Like little robot sheep or something. It's seriously sad.
Its a highely and the most successful online game ever thats why. lol i love it still i think what people hate the most its like watchin the same episode over and over again the content too easy and we fly through it then we get bored playing the rerun. community wise its great.
I like to refer to WoW as the GENERIC mmorpg. It resembles many that came before it but it's not as good as the ones that came before it. Blizzard is the Wal-mart of the MMO industry. Very successful but not always providing the highest quality product or expereince. It's known around the world by brand name WoWmart. I don't hate WoW. I do hate the fact that almost every game developer out there wants to emulate WoW in a sense hoping for the same success instead of focusing on what us gamers want. We all love Wal-mart but we don't all want another clone of it. The gaming world doesnt want or need another World of Warcraft and thats where the dissent towards WoW lays.
Never once heard it called WoWmart ever actually. It's not Blizz or WoW's fault if every unoriginal hack of a MMO designer out there tries to copy WoW. It's the designers fault for not having an original idea in his head.
I wouldn't really say that I hate WoW.
I tried WoW, and just didn't like it. I don't feel the need to constantly bash it at all. But then, as people have said, other developers feel the need to emulate WoW, a game which I have never liked. Its made worse by the fact that WoW has such a large population that their playerbase finds their way to every forum for an MMO in development and make posts about how "This game needs to be more like WoW." when the game looks very good as it is.
So, like I said, I don't HATE WoW, I'm just tired of all the people who want every new game to be WoW.
People hate on WOW not because of the game itself per se (game mechanics are always debatable) but the fact that due to it's success OTHER game developers tried to copy it making a sea of WOW clones in the process. The non-WOW gamers have to sort through (and wasting their time and money in the process) this sea of bad replicas and hence become fustrated and inadvertently "blame" WOW for. WOW is the scapegoat for the bad games that are released.
Current Games: WOW, EVE Online
Just like I said. It's not WoW's fault all these no talent morons copy them. Its the other MMOs fault for not really being good or original and thinking they can get by with copying WoW. A lot of of these people churning out MMOs have no talent or originality. They just want as much of they pie as they can get and they hear "WoWpie" is good so they copy that and never think to really come up with their own ideas. Or if they do their own ideas are crappily done. There are so many other ideas that could be done for some decent MMOs but nobody does them. I mean what about a Western? Zombie Apocalypse? Sci-Fi? Historical? Midevil Japan? Vampires? SOMETHING new? Nope. Every no talent hack wants to copy WoW cause it's successful without realizing "Gee if my customers wanted WoW wouldn't they play WoW instead?"
You have it backwards. WOW took from all that came before it and tweaked on those idea's. Nothing really about WoW was orginal other then their storyline. What made WoW so successful was alot obout when it was released. Their really hasn't been an awesome game released since the best of pre-World of Warcraft. The only thing in the 2 years i played WoW off and on that i liked and missed in other games was the mail and AH system. Other then that all others did it better in every area namely PVP. What made WoW popular was its HUGE warcraft fan base.
Blizzard marketed the game by advertising hard which was smart. It's a relatively easy game to play with low system demands compared to modern day game requirements. WoW is the perfect CASUAL GAMER GAME. It captured the casual gamer market all the while putting us hardcore gamers out to pasture who demand much more from a game. Thats why i brand it WoW-mart. Has alot of nice items but if you need a specialty item you need to go to a specialty shop and the market needs a game that tailors to the specialty/hardcore player. I actually want a fantasy based MMORPG game that sorts the casual gamer out. Maybe somebody will in the future have the guts to market one for us that prefer something different, something more challenging.
Everytime I hear oldschool gamers talk about their hatred for WoW (which is ridiculous, it's just a video game, find something more reasonable to hate on) I think of Stewie from family guy saying "I don't like change!"
See video:
Really?
I think the community is pretty awful.
Last thing I heard they don't even care to speak to one another in the PUGs anymore hows that for community?
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
You know Im an old school gamer I stared with M59, then UO I beta tested EQ and was a Guide there for years. Most of the gamers that hate WoW aren't Old school...there just bitter.
This sword here at my side dont act the way it should
Keeps calling me its master, but I feel like its slave
Hauling me faster and faster to an early, early grave
And it howls! it howls like hell!
Well, my intense hatred of wow comes from the simplistic mmo design. There's a lot of great things about wow, as the op adequately mentions. But despite all those great things wow is a dumbed down mmo with little to no freedom. I find that ultimately to be the anti-thesis of the mmo concept (at least as I see it). I would imagine that I am biased as my first mmo was swg. After the freedom of that game, wow is a letdown despite many superior mechanics.
But all that there is a reason to dislike a mmo, not hate it. Yeah, my hate comes from the fact that Blizzard has more than enough money to really expand wow and make it something close to what I would consider a full fledged mmo should have. But Blizzard purposely chooses to leave wow a dumbed down game completely focused on the masses. As a business person myself, I understand the philosophy, but that doesn't make me hate it any less; and ultimately I disagree with the concept from both a business and mmo point of view.
I think people like to blame WoW for the problems with other games due to its success. They equate the failures of other developers to trying to be like WoW and they are right in many cases. However, that is now WoW's fault. It is the fault of other developers for trying to copy it so much.
Because it has scared above 90% of the people putting money into this genre into creating anything remotely different as gameplay mechanics. Which is what every Blizzard game does actually.
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."