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Nvidia GTX 480 + 470 Launch today

AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,188

Paper launch, no availability till 12th April.

Some decent reviews here for thos interested:

Anandtech

Hardware Canucks

Maximum PC

Legitreviews

Guru3D

Based on the minimal FPS in the benchmarked games on the reviews that have them compared to the game I play I made my choice on went and pre-ordered a GTX 480.

Summing up it is going to run hot and fast. I have a good case and not too worries about that.

Going to be a few weeks before I get it. My choices were a HD5970 at close to $700 out of stock, a 5870 for about $65 cheaper prices based here in Canada. The GTX 480 slotted inbetween the two but minimal FPS for me is just as important as maximum. Can't wait to try it out in the mmorpg catalogue I have and see where it stands.



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Comments

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,301

    I think I said before that if the GTX480 does not perform atleast 25% faster then the HD5870 it would be a disapointment.  The reason for this is that it has 50% more transistors.  Anything less then 25% would prove to be a poor use of transistors. Only having an 8~15% performance advantage is disapointing for a card thats hotter, consumes more power, and is more expensive.  The only time where the GTX480 performs where it should is in Tesselation with a 50% increase in performance over the HD5870.  What would happen if AMD used 3 billion transistors like the GTX480?  It would be 30% faster overall with similar Tesselation performance.

    Its really hard to judge where the advantage in the GTX480 is talking purely architecture.  Its bandwidth is lower, its computational power is lower, and it has a laundry list of negatives attached to it.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690

    The bottom line is good performance for a good price and neither have a good price on it. Supposedly these cards will be going for close to $500.00. Does the average mmo player need to be rich in order to but an Nvidia ? Probably not but thats why most people will buy ATI because of the better price.

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  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,188

    ?Originally posted by Cleffy

    I think I said before that if the GTX480 does not perform atleast 25% faster then the HD5870 it would be a disapointment.  The reason for this is that it has 50% more transistors.  Anything less then 25% would prove to be a poor use of transistors. Only having an 8~15% performance advantage is disapointing for a card thats hotter, consumes more power, and is more expensive.  The only time where the GTX480 performs where it should is in Tesselation with a 50% increase in performance over the HD5870.  What would happen if AMD used 3 billion transistors like the GTX480?  It would be 30% faster overall with similar Tesselation performance.

    Its really hard to judge where the advantage in the GTX480 is talking purely architecture.  Its bandwidth is lower, its computational power is lower, and it has a laundry list of negatives attached to it.

     I agree somewhat, what I do find just as interesting is the minimal FPS out of those sites that recorded them. Here the 5870 losses a lot of ground.

    Price performance when AA is enabled (from HWC)

    Not much in it really

     

    Power consumption:

    Not a massive amount again.

     

    Anandtech is a pretty respectable website have a look at the minimal FPS charts for Crysis Warhead a game I play a lot of, (especially the multiplayer, and still the best looking shooter imo)

    I personally game at 19x12

     

    And here is what he says:

    "We’ve also gone ahead and recorded the minimum framerates for Crysis, as in our testing we’ve found the minimums to be very reliable. And in doing so, we have some data even more interesting than the averages. The GTX 400 series completely tramples the 5000 series when it comes to minimum framerates, far more than we would have expected. At 2560 Crysis is approaching a video RAM limitation in our 1GB and under cards, which gives the GTX 480 cards a clear lead at those resolutions. But even at lower resolutions where we’re not video RAM limited, the GTX 480 still enjoys a 33% lead in the minimum framerate, and the GTX 470 is well ahead of the 5850 and even slightly ahead of the 5870.

    For whatever reason AMD can’t seem to keep up with NVIDIA when it comes to the minimum framerate, even at lower resolutions. Certainly it’s obvious when the 1GB cards are video RAM limited at 2560, but if we didn’t have this data we would have never guessed the minimum framerates were this different at lower resolutions.

    Finally we have a quick look at SLI/CF performance. CF seems to exacerbate the video RAM limitations of the 5000 series, resulting in the GTX 480SLI coming in even farther ahead of the 5870CF. Even at lower resolutions SLI seems to be scaling better than CF"

     

    33% lead in minimal frame rate just on that one game! Just as important as MAX FPS for me too.

    Just saying from my position in buying one. ATI being out of stock since release and now overpriced (5970) only $65CAD difference from 5870 to GTX480 - and huge gains on minimal FPS for the GTX 480 make it worth the bit extra. That difference is better than going the other way to a 59707 too, to much of a mark up on the 5970. Lastly, the drivers once optimized will be better. Those results are with ATI 10.3 too and look how much that got for them without those drivers the results to GTX 480 on ATI previous drivers would of been nearer 20% than 15%



  • ForceQuitForceQuit Member Posts: 350

    Originally posted by Cleffy



    I think I said before that if the GTX480 does not perform atleast 25% faster then the HD5870 it would be a disapointment.  The reason for this is that it has 50% more transistors.  Anything less then 25% would prove to be a poor use of transistors. Only having an 8~15% performance advantage is disapointing for a card thats hotter, consumes more power, and is more expensive.  The only time where the GTX480 performs where it should is in Tesselation with a 50% increase in performance over the HD5870.  What would happen if AMD used 3 billion transistors like the GTX480?  It would be 30% faster overall with similar Tesselation performance.

    Its really hard to judge where the advantage in the GTX480 is talking purely architecture.  Its bandwidth is lower, its computational power is lower, and it has a laundry list of negatives attached to it.

    The GF100 chip is a $2000 GPGPU part that was roped into performing DX11/Gaming duties.  It simply wasn't designed with gaming efficiency in mind, that's why it's poor performance.  And it's tesselation?  That's when it doesn't really have to do anything else, like real shader work.  That's the design tradeoff you get with the word "General" in GPGPU...

     

    I am firmly convinced that one of the major reasons why PC gaming suffers in today's videogame landscape lies firmly on the GPU manufacturers.  We were finally getting away from these ridiculously huge, overpriced, power sucking, heat monsters.  Your average gamer does not want to pay more than $150, maybe $200 for a videocard.  And they need it to be quiet, low energy, cool, and fit in their case. 

     

    And now we have Nvidia releasing this utter embarrasement of a card.  Not that ATI is much better without any true competition, having taken advantage of an impotent Nvidia year.  Thank god they don't have to lower their prices since Nvidia just released this overengineered POS.... </sarcasm>

     

    Thankfully, very few of these will be sold, since not only is Nvidia almost certainly losing money on each one sold, but they are requiring retailers to buy up 2x of their older generation cards for every gf100 card they buy.  Right now Nvidia is furiously at work on a new revision of the gf100 chip, which hopefully reigns in these insane performances, and oh yeah is actually manufacturable at profit.

     

    But I suppose Nvidia had to save face, and release a "next generation" DX11 part no matter how untennable it really is.  Do we really expect Nvidia to be successful where Intel's equivalent project was not a success and sidelined to be "rethought through"?  Expect a new marketing blitz from Nvidia hyping up the "general" in its GPU.

     

    But the real kicker is this:  ATI, already sitting on a very profitable and scalable Evergreen chip, has just been given full license to play this absolutely insane and untennable e-peen GPU game.  Look for their next line of cards to be at least 25% faster, hotter, more power consuming, and expensive.  In the end, it's going to be PC gamers who will suffer.

     

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,301

    I need to make a correction to something I said.  The GTX480 has 15/16 SIMD activated, the GTX470 has 14/16 SIMD activated.  That means the GTX480 has 2.8 billion transistors and the GTX470 has 2.6 billion transistors.  This would only be 40% and 30% more transistors then the HD5870 for a 10~15% advantage at 40% more transistors, and an 8% disadvantage at 30% more transistors.

    The problem with blaming drivers is its rarely the case.  Most of the benchmarks used were specifically targeted by nVidia to be used, so the drivers on those are going to be pretty much complete.  I mean Metro2033 is a game no one has even heard of, yet its reached most of the benchmarks.  They used nearly every DX11 game except Total War, and the number of those is also limited.  Then they used the defacto DX11 benchmark.  The only time I have seen drivers make a difference on the results a few years later was with the HD4770 going from below the GTS250 to above the GTS250.

    Its definetly not a recommended product to be an early adopter on.  Something tells me these issues aren't going to be corrected until December, and by December you have a new iteration of ATI cards.

    When it comes to the GTX480 and computing.  Its not really something I would want to rely on.  The only aspect it has on the HD5870 is its proprietary standards and geometry shaders.  When it comes to raw computing power, the HD5870 just has such a monstrous level of basic computational ability that easily overshadows the power in the Fermi and a gigantic memory bandwidth.

  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,188

    GTX 480 won in 8 out the 10 game benchmark tests Vs the 5870 at Anandtech, sure some were small amounts others were quite a bit. Many people take Anand as non bias. There was a German website that had a 5830 beating the 480 in one test and it plain to see is driver related (or bias). Even Anand as well as other review sites about the drivers. If you look at the numbers from when 5870 launched to the ones today with driver optimization there is quite a difference. One thing a lot of people see is that Nvidia is typically good with its drivers. I've no doubt there will be better numbers with newer driver revisions for the 480.

    I love my games to look good, 32x Anti-Aliasing with GTX 480 is image

    Here are some screens:  http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,743462/Geforce-GTX-480-Spiele-Screenshots-mit-32-facher-Kantenglaettung/Grafikkarte/Test/bildergalerie/?iid=1270612



  • dfandfan Member Posts: 362

    Disappointment, but a well expected one. Hopefully B1 revision will be better.

  • sodade21sodade21 Member UncommonPosts: 349

    its 27 march.. i heard 26 march was the release date for the 480? so is it out or they have delay it even more??

  • dfandfan Member Posts: 362

    It's out but yields are next to nothing.

  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,188

    Originally posted by sodade21

    its 27 march.. i heard 26 march was the release date for the 480? so is it out or they have delay it even more??

     The post went up few hours after release on the 26th. The release was soft launch at PAX east.

    Apparently there will be plenty of cards at retailers from 12th April unless they all sell out.



  • pyrofreakpyrofreak Member UncommonPosts: 1,481

    Originally posted by AmazingAvery



    Originally posted by sodade21

    its 27 march.. i heard 26 march was the release date for the 480? so is it out or they have delay it even more??

     The post went up few hours after release on the 26th. The release was soft launch at PAX east.

    Apparently there will be plenty of cards at retailers from 12th April unless they all sell out.

    Seeing as the top of the line card for a single slot is still the 5970, and the 5870 is just slightly lower in benchmarks for 100$ less, I don't think there's any danger of that.

    Now with 57.3% more flames!

  • BarCrowBarCrow Member UncommonPosts: 2,195

    These cards look sweet..but man...what power hogs?...Gtx480 takes a 6pin and 8pin...so I think my PSU rules out that one . I'm not ready to switch everything out yet. Might go with the 470...or maybe jump ship again and get a 5850 or 5870. My gtx 275 runs hot enough..can't imagine the heat off of these. Do any games even utilize most of the tech yet?..I know it benefits all gaming but it always seems like overkill to me. Whenever I upgrade my cards...it never seems as beneficial as I would have Imagined. Yeah I can play AoC now...and run slightly smoother on older games...and at least play newer games. IDK...just seems like the window of benefit is so small for the price you pay . Then again...that's technology for you. Wish I were rich.

  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170

    Still no word on multi-monitor capability, can't do it yet apparently and no idea when it's gonna support it. Really curious how well their solution will work but Eyefinity has been way too cool to go back.

  • BarCrowBarCrow Member UncommonPosts: 2,195

    Originally posted by noquarter



    Still no word on multi-monitor capability, can't do it yet apparently and no idea when it's gonna support it. Really curious how well their solution will work but Eyefinity has been way too cool to go back.

    The 10+ page write up on 3DGuru mentions the 470/480  ability for 3 monitor 3D surround...with 2 cards in SLI. So I think it can be done. Again...wish I were rich.

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,301

    The GTX480 can only support 2 monitors on 1 card similar to the stock HD5870 if you don't use displayport.  However, the HD5870 is capable of running 3 cards in Stereoscopic and has been since nVidia released nVision.  I think the thing people are confused about is nVidia actively professes its proprietary solution to Stereoscopic vision.  AMD uses an open solution.

    On the HD5870, if you can find 6 Display port monitors and get the GPU with 6 display ports you can run 6 monitors on 1 card.  The thing that makes EyeFinity special is that the GPU calculates the offsets with monitor placement.

  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,188

    Originally posted by Cleffy

    The GTX480 can only support 2 monitors on 1 card similar to the stock HD5870 if you don't use displayport.  However, the HD5870 is capable of running 3 cards in Stereoscopic and has been since nVidia released nVision.  I think the thing people are confused about is nVidia actively professes its proprietary solution to Stereoscopic vision.  AMD uses an open solution.

    On the HD5870, if you can find 6 Display port monitors and get the GPU with 6 display ports you can run 6 monitors on 1 card.  The thing that makes EyeFinity special is that the GPU calculates the offsets with monitor placement.

     Be nice to calculate cost on that, here is a 6 set up eyefinity experience http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/03/24/ati_radeon_5870_2gb_3x2_eyefinity_gaming_experience

    Seems like he didn't like the bezels.

    As for Nvidia surround / 3d surround = http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/30297-nvidia-geforce-gtx-480-review-8.html



  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,301

    lol yea it definetly does not have the graphic computing power to do a modern game in 6 displays through 1 card, but neither does nVidia.

    The point 6 displays isn't a 2x3 setup.  Its making a display box.  In Game Development there is a technique to do far away objects and reflections called Cube Mapping.  What you can do with 6 displays is modify them to be a Cube Map and have a complete view of your entire surroundings.  I don't know if Eye-finity or games support this, but it would be the most immersive experience.

  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,188

    Originally posted by Cleffy

    lol yea it definetly does not have the graphic computing power to do a modern game in 6 displays through 1 card, but neither does nVidia.

    The point 6 displays isn't a 2x3 setup.  Its making a display box.  In Game Development there is a technique to do far away objects and reflections called Cube Mapping.  What you can do with 6 displays is modify them to be a Cube Map and have a complete view of your entire surroundings.  I don't know if Eye-finity or games support this, but it would be the most immersive experience.

     Sounds very neat Cleffy. I still think I would prefer 1 large screen than individuals.



  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170


    Originally posted by BarCrow


    Originally posted by noquarter

    Still no word on multi-monitor capability, can't do it yet apparently and no idea when it's gonna support it. Really curious how well their solution will work but Eyefinity has been way too cool to go back.

    The 10+ page write up on 3DGuru mentions the 470/480  ability for 3 monitor 3D surround...with 2 cards in SLI. So I think it can be done. Again...wish I were rich.

    Right, Nvidia has said they will add the functionality in drivers at some point in the future, right now it doesn't do it yet and no idea what the performance will be like since it's almost a software solution like SoftTH does. Though it will get to use the SLI link instead of bussing the frame buffer across the PCI-e lanes so it shouldn't be too bad hopefully.


    Also the idea of Eyefinity isn't a larger display it's more pixels. A 22" 1920x1080 monitor shows the same thing as a 47" HDTV, you sit closer to the monitor and get the same experience. If you add another 22" on each side though the game renders more of the game world for you to see at once.


    Problem in the past has been the Matrox TripleHead2Go adapter was $200 itself, and now with Nvidia you have to buy 2 video cards just to do it, Eyefinity has been the only solution that makes it almost affordable. I picked up a pair of TN monitors for $180 and $160 and it was totally worth it.

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    i ll enjoy my ati 5770!true 480 will be faster but in the end ati as had 9 month of free ride i bet they werent sleeping in the office

    and the fact they are dedicated to release driver support every month or so will probably bring them the edge and ati card harent that far +dx11 game for the mass is still far down the road

    i do hope ati doesnt make the mistake of releasing their new card before its ready i know they are getting there but they might be tempted to advance their release to compete with nvidia but lets face it ati still dont have major competition

    it took nvidia 9 month just to catch up with ati !that should telll you ati/amd/ibm had 9 month to find new ways of doing things

    9 month they never had before when nvidia was better or at least = to ati

    so dont sweat it ati fan i bet those 9 month were put to good use to research the next big!

    but for now they still have lot of headroom in the actual card driver optimisation maybe new power configuration etc for existing user.since summer is coming in not long no use to release an ati card better wait in august !like they did last year!

    but im happy for all the guys that have been endlessly waiting for new nvidia card theyll finally be able to get what they ve been waiting for almost a year later then ati!

  • dfandfan Member Posts: 362

    Originally posted by drbaltazar

    but im happy for all the guys that have been endlessly waiting for new nvidia card theyll finally be able to get what they ve been waiting for almost a year later then ati!

    Seriously, if someone has been waiting for that, he's a serious fanboy.

  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,188

    Originally posted by dfan

    Originally posted by drbaltazar

    but im happy for all the guys that have been endlessly waiting for new nvidia card theyll finally be able to get what they ve been waiting for almost a year later then ati!

    Seriously, if someone has been waiting for that, he's a serious fanboy.

    I wouldn't say so. 

    Hands down no matter what corner you are in the GTX 480 is the fastest single card you can get (depending on availability)

    Power draw and heat and even Price really don't bother me I want fastest MAX and Minimum FPS.

    Only in Feb was 5870 properly in stock and 5970 never has been for me apart from at release.

    I am happy to say I waited to make a better informed decision.



  • rivalzrivalz Member Posts: 9

    the 470/480 is a huge failure. they had to disable cores just to keep it from melting..it still can hit 100c!

    and sounds like a vacuum cleaner!

     

     

    and near 500 watts!

  • Agricola1Agricola1 Member UncommonPosts: 4,977

    480 will cost more than a 5870 for a small gain in FPS with masses of extra heat produced and power consumed and it's still technically inferior. Also the top of the line card is still the 5970, wether it has more than one GPU on a single is card doesn't really matter it uses a single slot.

    I still think ATI have nVidia beat on most aspects, nVidia did the predictable and threw in a load of extra hardware and just kept pushing the envelope until they beat out the 5870. The fact it costs more and you could probably roast marshmallows over it with your friends at a lan party for a very marginal gain on ATI's second best single card should be ignored by all good Nvidia fanbois.

    I'm willing to bet that inside the average air cooled tower once that baby revs up and is going full pelt the extra heat would probably cause your comp to lose performance! Those marginal gains would slip away like a burger down Oprah Winfrey's throat!

    If you want the best performance and have the money to spend you buy the 5970 (look on Amazon). If you don't have that kind of money but want a great card you buy the 5870 unless you're an nVidia fanbois in wich case you pony up some extra cash to increase your electricity bill and oven cook your mobo!

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

  • pyrofreakpyrofreak Member UncommonPosts: 1,481

    Originally posted by Agricola1

     

    The fact it costs more and you could probably roast marshmallows over it with your friends at a lan party for a very marginal gain on ATI's second best single card should be ignored by all good Nvidia fanbois.

    Now I want to buy one just to try that.

    Now with 57.3% more flames!

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