Metal Gear Solid 2 ending(?) *spoilers*

SatansDisciple

I played Metal Gear Solid 1 and 2. 1 was pretty easy to understand, 2 was as well... until the end. Was it real? Was it fake? What was S3? Who are the Patriots? Who is whos dad? I played it right when it came out, 3 years ago now is it? I might understand it now but I no longer own it. I looked for a summary online, but all I find is this philosophical junk. I get all of that, humans and experiences being information and whatnot, it's basically all of Ghost in the Shell. I just don't get the actual story ending. I just need to know for 3, which comes out tomorrow.

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Orcc

I really dont know either... so i oculdnt really explain it, all i know is it was really interesting. I heard 3 gives you more infomation about the patriots, and revolver ocelot is in it too in fact snake is the one that gets him using a revolver

Also, in case you missed it, they already announced that there will be a metal gear 4 Hopefully on PS3

SatansDisciple

I have heard 3 is the last.

And the protagonist in 3 is Big Boss I believe. I mean, I don't know the exact time that 1 and 2 took place, but they were at least around our own present day, and 3 is during 64. And that whole thing about the Patriots dying 100 years ago... I dunno, I don't even want to think about it, someone else do it for me.

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Serien

meh, I got up to the part where i killed fatman in mgs2 and quit

quit because eqii came out, lol

it's 7.5 gb, and I doubt i'm even a quarter through

I might play when....

maybe when the servers are down? lol

metalfoxus

I wont tell you alot because I don't want to spoil it for you, but the Patriots are Digital Ghosts.

SatansDisciple

No see, I want to be spoiled. I played through the game, I deserve to understand what I played!

So, If the Patriots are digital ghosts... what was Otacon talking about right at the end? How could they have died 100 years ago? Is that what all the talk of "intelligent computers" was about? All I want to know is where reality ends and begins, what was real and what wasn't, what was part of S3. Anything that might be necessary for Snake Eater.

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jimothypetro

As much as I want to buy MGS3, I'm not going to. Mainly because in MGS2 I bet it, and then they came out with MSG2 w/ VR Missions and I had to buy it again.

So as much as I want to know what happens in MSG3, I'm gonna wait it out.

And about the ending(yes, spoiler), Patriots are like metalfoxus said, "digital ghosts".

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SatansDisciple

I remember something being mentioned about them being digital ghosts, but I just didn't know what to believe at that point, I was completely lost. Just tell me what was real and what wasn't and I should be set.

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jimothypetro

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Originally posted by SatansDisciple
I remember something being mentioned about them being digital ghosts, but I just didn't know what to believe at that point, I was completely lost. Just tell me what was real and what wasn't and I should be set.--------------------------------------

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Pretty much nothing was real, except snake and Raiden(sp?). Even his girlfriend wasn't real... well she was real.. but not during his mission. I remember when he talked to her after it she didn't know what he was talking about..

It's been a long time since I've played it as well, though, so I'm kind of confused, too. I know there is alot I'm forgetting, also.

Oh, and I remember that there were probably about 20 times that people turned on eachother.. Damn.. I may have to play the game again. Got me thinking now.

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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977

SatansDisciple

Heh, same. I still have the first, I might play that for fun, then I'll pick up 2 when I get 3 tomorrow.

So after Raiden beat Solidus, was that when the excrcise/mission ended? And I thought Solidus was part of this whole thing as well... Ah I'll just play it again.

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Coraith

The colonel was a digital ghost patriot guy too wasnt he?
"turn off your playstation now!" That game was great.

Dekron

Basically it was this.  The patriots died "100 years ago", but their  consciousness "lived on" in the white house.  Throughout the years their consciousnesses awakened and grew from listening to all the shit going on.  Then they end up sort of infesting the machines to be able to pursue their own agenda.  It was really kind of a stupid ending.  But that's the gist of it.

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Orcc

So... theyre ghosts, but they infected the computers/nanomachines? Man... Metal Gear jsut keeps getting wierder and wierder.

Ominis

Yeah, I do agree that the ending to MGS2 was very wierd. In fact the entire game was pretty weird. It wasn't bad, but I think I liked MGS better. However I just read the review on IGN today for MGS3 and they said it was the best on yet. They said it had alot of twists and turns but wasn't as screwy as MGS2.

Here's the link.

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SatansDisciple

Nice, I like a good cinematic game. I'll play through the first 2 anyway, if I can stand it.

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Orcc

Damn, i dont have my PS2 here in college... guess ill get MGS3 for christmas

SatansDisciple

OK, I haven't even touched 3 yet, but I got around to beating 2, and here's my take on it:

I originally thought it was a big VR mission. It wasn't, it all took place in the real world. Snake was the only factor that wasn't orchestrated by the Patriots. The purpose of the exercise was to record the responses humans took to certain situations, with Shadow Moses used as a backdrop, with counterparts to events and characters from Shadow Moses put in the Big Shell and Arsenal. The Colonel and Rose weren't Patriots per se, they were images used by the Patriots, ones Raiden created himself. The only difference between them was that Rose actually did exist in the real world, just Rose wasn't the one there during the mission. The reasons each person was picked are explained pretty clearly towards the end, so I won't get into that.

There was a bunch of philosophical stuff too, but that's the jist of the story, what I got from it anyway.

There's a few things I'm still unclear on. One is how the Tanker incident factored into it. It appeared to be a base for chosing people to make part of the plant episode, but I'm not clear on that. It was referred to as part of the exercise by Ocelot though. That and... I still don't get something about the Patriots. I've gathered that the game takes place in the late 70's, early 80's (Solidus said something about G. Washington taking office 200 years ago today, which was i believe 1776). So, if the Patriots died 100 years ago, how were their conciouses stored digitally, when no computers existed, nor any knowledge that they ever would? Unless, of course, they withheld that knowledge from the public, then wrote the code for themselves when the time came that this code could be used on a computer.

The idea of Liquid going after the Patriots seems to leave it open for a sequel, but since 3 takes place in the 60's... well, we'll see.

So there ya go, on to Snake Eater!

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Ominis

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Originally posted by SatansDisciple
That and... I still don't get something about the Patriots. I've gathered that the game takes place in the late 70's, early 80's (Solidus said something about G. Washington taking office 200 years ago today, which was i believe 1776). So, if the Patriots died 100 years ago, how were their conciouses stored digitally, when no computers existed, nor any knowledge that they ever would? Unless, of course, they withheld that knowledge from the public, then wrote the code for themselves when the time came that this code could be used on a computer.The idea of Liquid going after the Patriots seems to leave it open for a sequel, but since 3 takes place in the 60's... well, we'll see.So there ya go, on to Snake Eater!--------------------------------------

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Actually MGS2 takes place closer to present day, not late 70s/early 80s. Although they never go right out and say the date, Solidus's clue about 200 years would place the date as April 30, 1989. Washington's inaguration actually took place on April 30, 1789, 13 years after the signing of the Declaration of Independence. In between the war and the signing of the Constitution there was only the American Confederacy, a loose coalition of the states under the Articles of Confederation with no true executive branch.

Anyways back on topic… That would put MGS2 at 1989 according to Solidus. In truth I'm not sure that's exact because the world seems maybe a little too advanced for the late 80s with such computers. Although someone might argue that its a game and there is a lot of fake technology in there anyways, another problem with the game occurring in 1989 is the fact that the USSR is still around. In the beginning there was a lot of talk about Ocelot betraying Russia at the end of Cold War or whatever, but if it's 1989, that hasn't happened yet. The Fall of the Berlin wall takes place on November 9, 1989, 7 months after the game supposedly takes place and the USSR doesn't disband until December 26, 1991.

So either Solidus had said something like "over 200 hundred years ago today...." or there was just a slip with the script (little stuff like this is hard to catch) I don't know. That or should give up all this and remember it's just a game.

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SatansDisciple

It could just be an alternate history. In the end the time frame doesn't much matter, the game doesn't seem to be going for realism. The fact that it is so close to real event-wise kind of disproves that idea, so maybe it was just a script-slip.

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