If I went after you, with a 20bil isk warchest you bet your gameplay *would* be affected. Unless you count cowering in a station as your gameplay or only playing if you are in a 100+ man blob. But lets not get into comparing whose dick is bigger, because I can assure you, mine is.
You are right, time spent in game doesn't equate to *player* skill, but you are kidding yourself if you think your leet twitch skills make any difference, or knowing which function key to press and when. Character skill, on an 'individual in blob' level doesn't affect jack either, but like I pointed out it does make a big difference in making yourself self-sufficient. I guess you are fine with RMT as if it doesn't impact your personal gameplay it doesn't matter eh?
It isn't a matter of smearing CCP, it is a matter of saying Plex is RMT, RMT is RL cash affecting the game. You say it doesn't affect your gameplay, I say you are too pig ignorant to understand it does affect players.
I spend the money to run two accounts. What about that? That's "RL money affecting the game", and I might add it gives me quite a bit more advantage than the same amount of money on PLEX for ISK would. Yet nearly every game allows multiple accounts (can you name 3 that dont?). I spend twice as much RL money as a guy with one account, and get a big advantage. Why is this OK, but the PLEX system isn't?
if CCP went after botters, closed down clear exploits (like the complex exploiting, ffs that went on for ages), went after the RMT at source (all the fraking 'shops' out there which are never touched), then the Plex system would never have been necessary.
I think this may be the closest we have come to being on topic. Namely, the assertion that CCP secretly encourages real money trading while claiming they oppose it.
Basically, what the poster above is saying is that a company must hire full time employees ( and all the cost that entails ), and dedicate them to combating RMT, or they are complicate.
The Irony is CCP is one of the few companies that do just that, and this team has banned over 30,000 accounts in the last year. Original game mechanics, that provide players with more game play options, without adding currency to the game world, doesn't reach the level of RMT and certianly not secret RMT IMO.
If I went after you, with a 20bil isk warchest you bet your gameplay *would* be affected. Unless you count cowering in a station as your gameplay or only playing if you are in a 100+ man blob. But lets not get into comparing whose dick is bigger, because I can assure you, mine is.
You are right, time spent in game doesn't equate to *player* skill, but you are kidding yourself if you think your leet twitch skills make any difference, or knowing which function key to press and when. Character skill, on an 'individual in blob' level doesn't affect jack either, but like I pointed out it does make a big difference in making yourself self-sufficient. I guess you are fine with RMT as if it doesn't impact your personal gameplay it doesn't matter eh?
It isn't a matter of smearing CCP, it is a matter of saying Plex is RMT, RMT is RL cash affecting the game. You say it doesn't affect your gameplay, I say you are too pig ignorant to understand it does affect players.
I spend the money to run two accounts. What about that? That's "RL money affecting the game", and I might add it gives me quite a bit more advantage than the same amount of money on PLEX for ISK would. Yet nearly every game allows multiple accounts (can you name 3 that dont?). I spend twice as much RL money as a guy with one account, and get a big advantage. Why is this OK, but the PLEX system isn't?
More Irony, So PLEX is RMT and this provides an unfair advantage to people with RL cash?
I just don’t see it that way. Malcanis is dead right when he says that a second account is a major advantage in this game. No matter how many skill points I have, alone I cannot scout ahead, and I cannot scan down other players and be combat effective.
The ability to scan, scout, and fight at the same time is a major advantage that you can only get with 2 accounts.
As much as anything else, PLEX levels the playing field for mid-level players and players that can’t afford a second account. It allows many players, which can’t afford the second account, to be completive with older players, without damaging the economy or breaking game rules.
Spin it however you like. This is one of the key uses of PLEX, and it helps players that can’t afford a second account be more competitive
It gets even more involved when you consider that a very large proportion of second+ accounts are maintained by PLEX.
So we have player A getting an advantage by selling a PLEX for ISK, and player B getting an advantage by using that PLEX to maintain another account.
Way to prove my point. Advantage gained over other players (the reason RMT is hated in case that hasn't been spelled out enough) by using Plex, bought with cash. I'm sure it is great for CCP having those accounts, a good little earner and I don't begrudge them that. I do wish it wasn't in the game or 'necessary' as you guys think it is. I do think it is hypocritical condemning RMT on the one hand, and having Plex on the other. You'd all howl if CCP did a Sony and made a proper CCP run cash shop, yet deny plex is half-way there already.
For the guy challenging me, grow up. I couldn't get a flying fig about who you are, what alliance you are in or how you play. With 20bil isk, I could *ruin* your gameplay for months on end if I so choose to and got a kick out of spending my time doing it. And to answer your question, 10bil isk is still significant enough that I'd miss it, but not that much.
Was going to list a few achievements I've had in game, but honestly, who gives a shit right?
About the "buying a 5 year old character" topic; Doesn't that just equate to a change in the person controlling the character? By this I mean, the 5 year old character is in the game regardless. It took someone 5 years to get there and if they sell that character, does it really matter?
The reason I think it does not is because of the character progression in EvE. In many popular games, I can create an alt (or many alts) and level them all to max level. Then, I can transfer them to other accounts via mechanics that the publisher/producer provide. So, using WoW as a easy to recognize example, the current level cap is 80. I can level a bunch of characters, and classes, to 80 using whatever bot software (or manually of course) and then sell those characters and go through the account transfer process. Now, with EvE, I can spend 5 years training and be specialized in a certain area or fairly cross trained, but regardless, it took me 5 years of game time to get there.
I suppose, the point being, there is no shortcut to manufacturing high SP characters unlike many other games where you can manufacture high level characters. So, the same character, regardless of who is playing it, is in game for those 5 years thus, to me personally, it is a non-issue. But, plenty of room to disagree, just figured I'd put another opinion out there.
My feelings exactly, as long as no new in game content/items are generated I could not care less. It is still just another faceless player behing the same pixels.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
It gets even more involved when you consider that a very large proportion of second+ accounts are maintained by PLEX.
So we have player A getting an advantage by selling a PLEX for ISK, and player B getting an advantage by using that PLEX to maintain another account.
Way to prove my point. Advantage gained over other players (the reason RMT is hated in case that hasn't been spelled out enough) by using Plex, bought with cash. I'm sure it is great for CCP having those accounts, a good little earner and I don't begrudge them that. I do wish it wasn't in the game or 'necessary' as you guys think it is. I do think it is hypocritical condemning RMT on the one hand, and having Plex on the other. You'd all howl if CCP did a Sony and made a proper CCP run cash shop, yet deny plex is half-way there already.
For the guy challenging me, grow up. I couldn't get a flying fig about who you are, what alliance you are in or how you play. With 20bil isk, I could *ruin* your gameplay for months on end if I so choose to and got a kick out of spending my time doing it. And to answer your question, 10bil isk is still significant enough that I'd miss it, but not that much.
Was going to list a few achievements I've had in game, but honestly, who gives a shit right?
You are the one bleating how your ISK can ruin my game experience. And guess what you didn't ruin my gameplay experience tonight lets see if you do tommorow.
Read my post, Plex or not you cannot ruin my gameplay experience whatever you do or however many plex cards you buy, as I play the game for fun. It does not matter what you do I would just laugh and play on.
As long as no additional items are created in game througfh the use of Plex it will not effect anything. I do not really care if GimpA or GimpB holds resources it makes no difference. It does not change the state of the economy or the accounts being played within the game, at worst it will be the same at best some newbie will loose a lot of ISK.
It is sad that you think ruining someones game experience is worthwhile, seems a tad childish but each to their own.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Well of course it's a cash shop, silly. You exchange money for something in-game.
But that certain;y doesn't mean it's bad.
And if you think it's bad just for that reason than I think you need to look over how you view things in life.
This is game time. It's not some in-game item for something that you can only get if you pay this much. This is in-game time that costs as much as a subscription. It's an option. Hell this is even a great thing for the players. Because of this thing being an in-game item it let's the people who really want to play the game for free even! It's not like it interfere's with anyone else's gameplay, even. It helps the economy and the players while providing some extra income to CCP if players want to use some money to get a few mil quickly. It's a win-win-win.
I think it's a brilliant idea and adds to the game.
just because you don't like the idea of something in it's most extreme view, doesn't mean every iteration of it is "evil".
It gets even more involved when you consider that a very large proportion of second+ accounts are maintained by PLEX.
So we have player A getting an advantage by selling a PLEX for ISK, and player B getting an advantage by using that PLEX to maintain another account.
Way to prove my point. Advantage gained over other players (the reason RMT is hated in case that hasn't been spelled out enough) by using Plex, bought with cash. I'm sure it is great for CCP having those accounts, a good little earner and I don't begrudge them that. I do wish it wasn't in the game or 'necessary' as you guys think it is. I do think it is hypocritical condemning RMT on the one hand, and having Plex on the other. You'd all howl if CCP did a Sony and made a proper CCP run cash shop, yet deny plex is half-way there already.
For the guy challenging me, grow up. I couldn't get a flying fig about who you are, what alliance you are in or how you play. With 20bil isk, I could *ruin* your gameplay for months on end if I so choose to and got a kick out of spending my time doing it. And to answer your question, 10bil isk is still significant enough that I'd miss it, but not that much.
Was going to list a few achievements I've had in game, but honestly, who gives a shit right?
You are the one bleating how your ISK can ruin my game experience. And guess what you didn't ruin my gameplay experience tonight lets see if you do tommorow.
Read my post, Plex or not you cannot ruin my gameplay experience whatever you do or however many plex cards you buy, as I play the game for fun. It does not matter what you do I would just laugh and play on.
As long as no additional items are created in game througfh the use of Plex it will not effect anything. I do not really care if GimpA or GimpB holds resources it makes no difference. It does not change the state of the economy or the accounts being played within the game, at worst it will be the same at best some newbie will loose a lot of ISK.
It is sad that you think ruining someones game experience is worthwhile, seems a tad childish but each to their own.
Get some reading comprehension trained up. I couldn't give two shits about you or your gameplay. And I don't think ruining someone's game experience is worth my time, but I could do it if I wanted to. You were the one saying 'oh come get me and affect my gameplay cause you cannot'. I'm saying oh yes, I certainly could... anyone could if they set their mind to it Plex, no Plex, RMT or no RMT. The "20bil not touching me" which *you* brought up btw, would just make it that much easier.
It gets even more involved when you consider that a very large proportion of second+ accounts are maintained by PLEX.
So we have player A getting an advantage by selling a PLEX for ISK, and player B getting an advantage by using that PLEX to maintain another account.
Way to prove my point. Advantage gained over other players (the reason RMT is hated in case that hasn't been spelled out enough) by using Plex, bought with cash.
Thanks, Captain Obvious. Of course buying a PLEX and selling it for ISK gives an advantage. I dont think anyone here has disputed that. But player A gets a smaller, transient advantage compared to player B's larger, permanent advantage.
Now answer the question: why is it worse to sell a PLEX for ISK than it is to run a second account?
"You'd all howl if CCP did a Sony and made a proper CCP run cash shop, yet deny plex is half-way there already."
So you're once again basing your argument on something you imagine us doing in response to a hypothetical situation? Right, gotcha. Why not just call us liberals and accuse us of hating America or something while you're about it, since this is Glen Beck class thinking.
Disregarding the fact that SOE has a nasty reputation for fucking their playerbase that CCP lacks, you have still to prove that CCP evil mean horrible "cash shop" that sells game time has actually had a deleterious effect on your game play. A real one, I mean, not another imaginary one where you dream up far-fetched scenarios. When have you ever to your knowledge been adversely affected by PLEX?
In fact, just for the sake of the debate: I'l concede you your imaginary 20 billion ISK, Let's assume that you are pissed off with me sufficiently (Malcanis is my in-game name, by the way) to want to spend ~$1600 to try and ruin my gameplay. Please do tell me how you'd go about it. I am, frankly, sceptical of your ability to do so* but if you can propose a plausible plan on a budget of 20 bill, I'd be fascinated to hear it. Also, how pissed off would you have to be to spend that much? What if I only pissed you off to the tune of $39.99 - what then?
*I'll make it easy for you by showing you my killboard, so you can even see what kind of ships I fly. Currently I am docked in X-7omu in the Pure Blind region.
In fact, just for the sake of the debate: I'l concede you your imaginary 20 billion ISK, Let's assume that you are pissed off with me sufficiently (Malcanis is my in-game name, by the way) to want to spend ~$1600 to try and ruin my gameplay. Please do tell me how you'd go about it.
*I'll make it easy for you by showing you my killboard, so you can even see what kind of ships I fly. Currently I am docked in X-7omu in the Pure Blind region.
Oh you sorry loser, I'll show you. I'm gonna buy a Titan and a lot of T2 stuff and... oh wait, I cannot pilot those yet, hmmm, two more years training? Gosh, ok, I can pilot cruisers so I'll get a T3 cruiser top of the line faction fitted and... ouch, those damn skills again. OK, I'll get a nice T2 cruiser, just wait a few weeks till I can fly one of those and... ok, a few other weeks/months till all the stuff I need can fit in that ship, and then I'll wait for you outside the station and I'll pawn your ass. Yeah, see? I can beat you with enough money ... wow, just saw your killboard, hmmm, I think I need to learn to fight to get a small chance, no problem, wait a couple of months more so that I can develop some real fighting skills, and then I'll show you what money can do... [evil grin]
(Most probably by the time I'm barely able to have a minimal fighting chance I would be making enough ISK from playing anyway)
Learn to read trolls, I don't give a shit about you, who you are, who you are ingame etc etc. Get over yourself already and grow the fuck up. Or don't, it is hilarious.
I'll sum up, I actually agree with most of what the OP posted. You might deride it because 'it doesn't affect me', or you think it doesn't or cannot. Every action in the game affects everyone, to a lesser or greater extent. That is why RMT is destructive and hated, and why I believe Plex is wrong.
My killboard should not lead you in to thinking I am a good PvPer (I'm not really - mediocre at best), but it should indicate to you that I am generally in the presence of plenty of people who are good PvPers which is a much more serious problem for someone hoping to grief me with his PLEX ISK.
Oh and pleeeeeeeeeeease try and do it with a Titan!
Sorry, Ruinal, we'll keep our meaningless facts and experience out of this discussion about your emotions. Maybe we'll talk about this on one of the 27 days a month when logic plays at least a part in your thinking.
Sure, someone can buy 100,000,000 PLEX, but flooding the market with the means they will only be worth 1 isk each - Driving down the exchange rate from real to virtual money to ridiculously low levels. The system does not allow for an infinite supply.
Add to this the fact that when you buy PLEX, no ISK is generated in concert with it. The supply of ISK in the game is finite, and the RMT does not generate it's corresponding amount of ISK. You buy a PLEX, not ISK, and thus rely on other players farming for your money, essentially.
Both of these things keep the system in check and prevent it from becoming a 'true' cash shop. If everyone would buy PLEX to sell, there would be no one to buy them as no one has the ISK for it. It would drive prices down again to a level where people can afford it.
Missioning and ratting (the two main ISK influxes) can never be dismissed, as without them no one will be able to buy your PLEXes, and thus buying them would be a waste of time.
I'll sum up, ... Every action in the game affects everyone, to a lesser or greater extent. That is why RMT is destructive and hated, and why I believe Plex is wrong.
But we "trolls" do read, that is why we post, because some of the comments here equating RMT and PLEX selling are so hilarious to use your own expression.
It would be better to play an EvE with no Plexes, I do agree with you. It would be fairer to all, but it is no so simple as that. There will always be someone ready to get real cash in exchange for doing the boring stuff and at the same time there will always be lazy players ready to pay those guys. That is offer and demand. That is like the war on drugs, it will never be won as long as there is demand for the stuff.
CCPs solution involves allowing everyone to do what RMT do, sell their excess ISK for money, and that is brilliant. Let me show you the benefits.
- every player and their cousin can now sell their excess ISK, there is a lot of competition now for the "proffesional" RMTs which drives the prices down and make the whole business less attractive to the "proffesional" RMTs.
- now it is fellow players benefitting from the whole ISK selling, not only some shady real life scammer.
- under plaxing sellers do not get real money, only game time, wich effectively caps the amount of money an account can "earn" to a few dollars per month. Therefore plexing is no good for proffesional "RMT's".
- controlling of the transactions eliminates the RM scams, which makes the users not want to get their ISK off game, again diminishing the return of the proffesional "RMT's".
- it gives incentive for experienced players to log in order to play for free each month.
- it still gives lazy players a venue to buy their brand new faction ship resorting to other players instead to the RMT mafias.
EvE is not more imbalanced now that it was before plexing, when isk was solely bought in the black market. Well, at least this is how I see it. You think differently and that is as well, just don't expect all of us agree with you, OK?
Although I agree that RMTers will never be put down for good I do think it is important to maintain a tough stance on those that do RMT, otherwise the game would be ruin eventually because of RMTers throwing off the balance of everything within the game.
Basically the only ones that will be able to still play Eve will be the ones that have been in the game for a long time or are willing to spend there real money not only on a subscription or PLEX but also on ISK for their account.
BAsically your second paragraph makes no sense whatsoever, have you ever played the game as you are talking rubish if it can be even called that. I have played ever for 4-5 years and I still play. I have a vast array of ships not a lot of ISK.
How is it that I am still playing, ISK is so easy to come by.....
Never heard of Ever wish I had played it for 5 years....
You do not understand what I am saying and If you have been playing for nearly 5 years and you are still stuggling to make decent amounts of ISK then you are doing something wrong.
I will make this easy for you i have about 12 billion ISK tied up in the markets. Just not lots in my pocket. I just enjoy the game now I do not need ISK.... If i liquidated all the assets I have .....
As stated it is not difficult to make isk your second paragraph is just rubbish, I have never bought ISK and never will. In my opinion making ISK is the game...
Thats Your Opinion PvP Might be the game for other player...
I'll sum up, ... Every action in the game affects everyone, to a lesser or greater extent. That is why RMT is destructive and hated, and why I believe Plex is wrong.
But we "trolls" do read, that is why we post, because some of the comments here equating RMT and PLEX selling are so hilarious to use your own expression.
EvE is not more imbalanced now that it was before plexing, when isk was solely bought in the black market. Well, at least this is how I see it. You think differently and that is as well, just don't expect all of us agree with you, OK?
Noob. Don't you know that disagreeing with someone makes you a troll?
This continues to be a fun thread to read but now we're spending more time debating the morality of PLEX system, (depends on a players value system pertaining to games) whether or not its fair that a person has 2 accounts (its not, but keep in mind, EVE is not meant to be fair) and whether trading ISK for PLEX imparts a serious advantage. (IMO, it doesn't)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I was referring to the guys saying 'Oh take 20 bil isk and go ruin MY gameplay, you cannot' tards who go on to post their ingame char and killboard. Like I (or anyone else) gives a shit, as I've stated many times to that baiting. I don't think a first paragraph direct reply could be any clearer, but obviously needs to be as fan-boys seem to lack the ability to read and comprehend. But nothing new there eh?
See there you go again with 'Prove me wrong, you cannot touch me blah blah wah wah'. I'm no backpeddling a jot. I AM SAYING I DONT CARE ABOUT YOU. Effs sake, you just cannot understand can you, I've better things to do than chase down a no name idiot. I even said I don't get my kicks out of griefing others, but you see that as backpeddling. Lol, if it makes you feel better *pats carebear on head*.
It stands to reason that if ANYONE had the time or inclination to go after you in particular your gameplay WOULD be affected, you seem to think you are untouchable though with your newb 2 & 1/2 years experience carebearing.
Thought about how many cash farmers are doing so completely anonymously via Plex, so will rarely if ever get banned or stopped? You probably have and do this yourself which is why you defend it so vehemently. I'm not going to spell out how you could use Plex to push real RMT, but no keep sticking your head up your ass and singing lalala 'doesn't affect me'. Then again, I suspect you are just the sort of idiot who relies on his isk income from selling Plex to survive. Anyway, I'm done replying as well.
See there you go again with 'Prove me wrong, you cannot touch me blah blah wah wah'. I'm no backpeddling a jot. I AM SAYING I DONT CARE ABOUT YOU. Effs sake, you just cannot understand can you, I've better things to do than chase down a no name idiot. I even said I don't get my kicks out of griefing others, but you see that as backpeddling. Lol, if it makes you feel better *pats carebear on head*.
It stands to reason that if ANYONE had the time or inclination to go after you in particular your gameplay WOULD be affected, you seem to think you are untouchable though with your newb 2 & 1/2 years experience carebearing.
Thought about how many cash farmers are doing so completely anonymously via Plex, so will rarely if ever get banned or stopped? You probably have and do this yourself which is why you defend it so vehemently. I'm not going to spell out how you could use Plex to push real RMT, but no keep sticking your head up your ass and singing lalala 'doesn't affect me'. Then again, I suspect you are just the sort of idiot who relies on his isk income from selling Plex to survive. Anyway, I'm done replying as well.
The thought of someone going after my Corp (and that's not even counting the alliance) with 20 or 40 bill in plex is actually pretty funny. I think if you had the time and experience you claim you would see the humor aswell. It 's not like RMT was not going to be there, so the only real effect on game play is that EVE is not as profitable for RMT. TBH, as far as I can see, you are the only one really supporting RMT in this thread, because without PLEX the game would be much more profitable, and less work for them. Just the way I see it M8.
RMT likes to play dirty, CCP is just saying bring it on. It's EVE 101...... hit 'em where it hurts.
Read my posts, couldn't be more RMT (&PLEX) if I tried. Anyone using RL cash to achieve something ingame which they wouldn't have been able to, getting a new ship, character, bpo whatever is just plain cheating. Plex makes it that much less of a level playing field and isn't some magical panacea or silver bullet for RMT.
And yes, using a 2nd account (or 3rd, 4th whatever) paid for with RL cash is an advantage, but it is an advantage which a player still has to spend time ingame to achieve. But with Plex, the cash farmers can now fund any number of anonymous accounts to carry out their RMT. Good for CCP getting a 'cut of the action', maybe. Not good for players still blighted by bots, macroers, etc etc.
It is sad that you think ruining someones game experience is worthwhile, seems a tad childish but each to their own.
Get some reading comprehension trained up. I couldn't give two shits about you or your gameplay. And I don't think ruining someone's game experience is worth my time, but I could do it if I wanted to. You were the one saying 'oh come get me and affect my gameplay cause you cannot'. I'm saying oh yes, I certainly could... anyone could if they set their mind to it Plex, no Plex, RMT or no RMT. The "20bil not touching me" which *you* brought up btw, would just make it that much easier.
Uhm didn't see your warchest impacting my Gameplay tonight or last night. You really are a fool, what CCP have done is just implemented so well it does not impact at all. As stated way way above you cannot impact my gameplay because that is all it is , in this game Plex does not kill a game in the standard Cash shop scenario it does. I wonder what the difference is ?
It is not about what you care or don't it's about the garbage you spouted here. Still waiting for that WoW impact you will inflict on all us lesser mortals ingame, ( don't see it somehow). And you did talk about ruining peoples gameplay which is pathatic in itself but sadly you wont ruin mine.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
See there you go again with 'Prove me wrong, you cannot touch me blah blah wah wah'. I'm no backpeddling a jot. I AM SAYING I DONT CARE ABOUT YOU. Effs sake, you just cannot understand can you, I've better things to do than chase down a no name idiot. I even said I don't get my kicks out of griefing others, but you see that as backpeddling. Lol, if it makes you feel better *pats carebear on head*.
It stands to reason that if ANYONE had the time or inclination to go after you in particular your gameplay WOULD be affected, you seem to think you are untouchable though with your newb 2 & 1/2 years experience carebearing.
Thought about how many cash farmers are doing so completely anonymously via Plex, so will rarely if ever get banned or stopped? You probably have and do this yourself which is why you defend it so vehemently. I'm not going to spell out how you could use Plex to push real RMT, but no keep sticking your head up your ass and singing lalala 'doesn't affect me'. Then again, I suspect you are just the sort of idiot who relies on his isk income from selling Plex to survive. Anyway, I'm done replying as well.
The thought of someone going after my Corp (and that's not even counting the alliance) with 20 or 40 bill in plex is actually pretty funny. I think if you had the time and experience you claim you would see the humor aswell. It 's not like RMT was not going to be there, so the only real effect on game play is that EVE is not as profitable for RMT. TBH, as far as I can see, you are the only one really supporting RMT in this thread, because without PLEX the game would be much more profitable, and less work for them. Just the way I see it M8.
RMT likes to play dirty, CCP is just saying bring it on. It's EVE 101...... hit 'em where it hurts.
I laughed as well, apparently I am under house arrest with Ruinals fleet on my doorstep. NOT !!!! I showed a friend the thread the other night while we were online, well extracts of it. He laughed, he had lost about half a billion earlier this week so I put it to him that he should buy a couple of Plexs' , he laughed and told me to get a life. At which point i just transfered the money he needed to kit out his replacement.
Stable economy, stable game no need to buy anything from anyone. I guess Plex doesnt impact in the circles I play in and the game just gets better, it does not even register. Sad "Ruinal" that your negative approach is wasted... on me
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Read my posts, couldn't be more RMT (&PLEX) if I tried. Anyone using RL cash to achieve something ingame which they wouldn't have been able to, getting a new ship, character, bpo whatever is just plain cheating. Plex makes it that much less of a level playing field and isn't some magical panacea or silver bullet for RMT.
And yes, using a 2nd account (or 3rd, 4th whatever) paid for with RL cash is an advantage, but it is an advantage which a player still has to spend time ingame to achieve. But with Plex, the cash farmers can now fund any number of anonymous accounts to carry out their RMT. Good for CCP getting a 'cut of the action', maybe. Not good for players still blighted by bots, macroers, etc etc.
Maybe someday you will entertain the notion that PLEX allows players a way to fight back against those that cheat, because if you're looking for the MMORPG where they don't, it's going to be a long and fruitless search.
To Isane.......LOL yeah I have used PLEX once when I bought a GTC to activate an alt. I have no use for it, and really don't care about it. Oh the Irony
Comments
I spend the money to run two accounts. What about that? That's "RL money affecting the game", and I might add it gives me quite a bit more advantage than the same amount of money on PLEX for ISK would. Yet nearly every game allows multiple accounts (can you name 3 that dont?). I spend twice as much RL money as a guy with one account, and get a big advantage. Why is this OK, but the PLEX system isn't?
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I think this may be the closest we have come to being on topic. Namely, the assertion that CCP secretly encourages real money trading while claiming they oppose it.
Basically, what the poster above is saying is that a company must hire full time employees ( and all the cost that entails ), and dedicate them to combating RMT, or they are complicate.
The Irony is CCP is one of the few companies that do just that, and this team has banned over 30,000 accounts in the last year. Original game mechanics, that provide players with more game play options, without adding currency to the game world, doesn't reach the level of RMT and certianly not secret RMT IMO.
More Irony, So PLEX is RMT and this provides an unfair advantage to people with RL cash?
I just don’t see it that way. Malcanis is dead right when he says that a second account is a major advantage in this game. No matter how many skill points I have, alone I cannot scout ahead, and I cannot scan down other players and be combat effective.
The ability to scan, scout, and fight at the same time is a major advantage that you can only get with 2 accounts.
As much as anything else, PLEX levels the playing field for mid-level players and players that can’t afford a second account. It allows many players, which can’t afford the second account, to be completive with older players, without damaging the economy or breaking game rules.
Spin it however you like. This is one of the key uses of PLEX, and it helps players that can’t afford a second account be more competitive
It gets even more involved when you consider that a very large proportion of second+ accounts are maintained by PLEX.
So we have player A getting an advantage by selling a PLEX for ISK, and player B getting an advantage by using that PLEX to maintain another account.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Way to prove my point. Advantage gained over other players (the reason RMT is hated in case that hasn't been spelled out enough) by using Plex, bought with cash. I'm sure it is great for CCP having those accounts, a good little earner and I don't begrudge them that. I do wish it wasn't in the game or 'necessary' as you guys think it is. I do think it is hypocritical condemning RMT on the one hand, and having Plex on the other. You'd all howl if CCP did a Sony and made a proper CCP run cash shop, yet deny plex is half-way there already.
For the guy challenging me, grow up. I couldn't get a flying fig about who you are, what alliance you are in or how you play. With 20bil isk, I could *ruin* your gameplay for months on end if I so choose to and got a kick out of spending my time doing it. And to answer your question, 10bil isk is still significant enough that I'd miss it, but not that much.
Was going to list a few achievements I've had in game, but honestly, who gives a shit right?
My feelings exactly, as long as no new in game content/items are generated I could not care less. It is still just another faceless player behing the same pixels.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
You are the one bleating how your ISK can ruin my game experience. And guess what you didn't ruin my gameplay experience tonight lets see if you do tommorow.
Read my post, Plex or not you cannot ruin my gameplay experience whatever you do or however many plex cards you buy, as I play the game for fun. It does not matter what you do I would just laugh and play on.
As long as no additional items are created in game througfh the use of Plex it will not effect anything. I do not really care if GimpA or GimpB holds resources it makes no difference. It does not change the state of the economy or the accounts being played within the game, at worst it will be the same at best some newbie will loose a lot of ISK.
It is sad that you think ruining someones game experience is worthwhile, seems a tad childish but each to their own.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Well of course it's a cash shop, silly. You exchange money for something in-game.
But that certain;y doesn't mean it's bad.
And if you think it's bad just for that reason than I think you need to look over how you view things in life.
This is game time. It's not some in-game item for something that you can only get if you pay this much. This is in-game time that costs as much as a subscription. It's an option. Hell this is even a great thing for the players. Because of this thing being an in-game item it let's the people who really want to play the game for free even! It's not like it interfere's with anyone else's gameplay, even. It helps the economy and the players while providing some extra income to CCP if players want to use some money to get a few mil quickly. It's a win-win-win.
I think it's a brilliant idea and adds to the game.
just because you don't like the idea of something in it's most extreme view, doesn't mean every iteration of it is "evil".
Get some reading comprehension trained up. I couldn't give two shits about you or your gameplay. And I don't think ruining someone's game experience is worth my time, but I could do it if I wanted to. You were the one saying 'oh come get me and affect my gameplay cause you cannot'. I'm saying oh yes, I certainly could... anyone could if they set their mind to it Plex, no Plex, RMT or no RMT. The "20bil not touching me" which *you* brought up btw, would just make it that much easier.
Thanks, Captain Obvious. Of course buying a PLEX and selling it for ISK gives an advantage. I dont think anyone here has disputed that. But player A gets a smaller, transient advantage compared to player B's larger, permanent advantage.
Now answer the question: why is it worse to sell a PLEX for ISK than it is to run a second account?
"You'd all howl if CCP did a Sony and made a proper CCP run cash shop, yet deny plex is half-way there already."
So you're once again basing your argument on something you imagine us doing in response to a hypothetical situation? Right, gotcha. Why not just call us liberals and accuse us of hating America or something while you're about it, since this is Glen Beck class thinking.
Disregarding the fact that SOE has a nasty reputation for fucking their playerbase that CCP lacks, you have still to prove that CCP evil mean horrible "cash shop" that sells game time has actually had a deleterious effect on your game play. A real one, I mean, not another imaginary one where you dream up far-fetched scenarios. When have you ever to your knowledge been adversely affected by PLEX?
In fact, just for the sake of the debate: I'l concede you your imaginary 20 billion ISK, Let's assume that you are pissed off with me sufficiently (Malcanis is my in-game name, by the way) to want to spend ~$1600 to try and ruin my gameplay. Please do tell me how you'd go about it. I am, frankly, sceptical of your ability to do so* but if you can propose a plausible plan on a budget of 20 bill, I'd be fascinated to hear it. Also, how pissed off would you have to be to spend that much? What if I only pissed you off to the tune of $39.99 - what then?
*I'll make it easy for you by showing you my killboard, so you can even see what kind of ships I fly. Currently I am docked in X-7omu in the Pure Blind region.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Oh you sorry loser, I'll show you. I'm gonna buy a Titan and a lot of T2 stuff and... oh wait, I cannot pilot those yet, hmmm, two more years training? Gosh, ok, I can pilot cruisers so I'll get a T3 cruiser top of the line faction fitted and... ouch, those damn skills again. OK, I'll get a nice T2 cruiser, just wait a few weeks till I can fly one of those and... ok, a few other weeks/months till all the stuff I need can fit in that ship, and then I'll wait for you outside the station and I'll pawn your ass. Yeah, see? I can beat you with enough money ... wow, just saw your killboard, hmmm, I think I need to learn to fight to get a small chance, no problem, wait a couple of months more so that I can develop some real fighting skills, and then I'll show you what money can do... [evil grin]
(Most probably by the time I'm barely able to have a minimal fighting chance I would be making enough ISK from playing anyway)
Played: UO, SWG, TR, WoW, AoC, EvE
Playing:
Interested in: JGE, LotR, TSW
Learn to read trolls, I don't give a shit about you, who you are, who you are ingame etc etc. Get over yourself already and grow the fuck up. Or don't, it is hilarious.
I'll sum up, I actually agree with most of what the OP posted. You might deride it because 'it doesn't affect me', or you think it doesn't or cannot. Every action in the game affects everyone, to a lesser or greater extent. That is why RMT is destructive and hated, and why I believe Plex is wrong.
My killboard should not lead you in to thinking I am a good PvPer (I'm not really - mediocre at best), but it should indicate to you that I am generally in the presence of plenty of people who are good PvPers which is a much more serious problem for someone hoping to grief me with his PLEX ISK.
Oh and pleeeeeeeeeeease try and do it with a Titan!
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Sorry, Ruinal, we'll keep our meaningless facts and experience out of this discussion about your emotions. Maybe we'll talk about this on one of the 27 days a month when logic plays at least a part in your thinking.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Sure, someone can buy 100,000,000 PLEX, but flooding the market with the means they will only be worth 1 isk each - Driving down the exchange rate from real to virtual money to ridiculously low levels. The system does not allow for an infinite supply.
Add to this the fact that when you buy PLEX, no ISK is generated in concert with it. The supply of ISK in the game is finite, and the RMT does not generate it's corresponding amount of ISK. You buy a PLEX, not ISK, and thus rely on other players farming for your money, essentially.
Both of these things keep the system in check and prevent it from becoming a 'true' cash shop. If everyone would buy PLEX to sell, there would be no one to buy them as no one has the ISK for it. It would drive prices down again to a level where people can afford it.
Missioning and ratting (the two main ISK influxes) can never be dismissed, as without them no one will be able to buy your PLEXes, and thus buying them would be a waste of time.
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
But we "trolls" do read, that is why we post, because some of the comments here equating RMT and PLEX selling are so hilarious to use your own expression.
It would be better to play an EvE with no Plexes, I do agree with you. It would be fairer to all, but it is no so simple as that. There will always be someone ready to get real cash in exchange for doing the boring stuff and at the same time there will always be lazy players ready to pay those guys. That is offer and demand. That is like the war on drugs, it will never be won as long as there is demand for the stuff.
CCPs solution involves allowing everyone to do what RMT do, sell their excess ISK for money, and that is brilliant. Let me show you the benefits.
- every player and their cousin can now sell their excess ISK, there is a lot of competition now for the "proffesional" RMTs which drives the prices down and make the whole business less attractive to the "proffesional" RMTs.
- now it is fellow players benefitting from the whole ISK selling, not only some shady real life scammer.
- under plaxing sellers do not get real money, only game time, wich effectively caps the amount of money an account can "earn" to a few dollars per month. Therefore plexing is no good for proffesional "RMT's".
- controlling of the transactions eliminates the RM scams, which makes the users not want to get their ISK off game, again diminishing the return of the proffesional "RMT's".
- it gives incentive for experienced players to log in order to play for free each month.
- it still gives lazy players a venue to buy their brand new faction ship resorting to other players instead to the RMT mafias.
EvE is not more imbalanced now that it was before plexing, when isk was solely bought in the black market. Well, at least this is how I see it. You think differently and that is as well, just don't expect all of us agree with you, OK?
Played: UO, SWG, TR, WoW, AoC, EvE
Playing:
Interested in: JGE, LotR, TSW
Thats Your Opinion PvP Might be the game for other player...
Noob. Don't you know that disagreeing with someone makes you a troll?
This continues to be a fun thread to read but now we're spending more time debating the morality of PLEX system, (depends on a players value system pertaining to games) whether or not its fair that a person has 2 accounts (its not, but keep in mind, EVE is not meant to be fair) and whether trading ISK for PLEX imparts a serious advantage. (IMO, it doesn't)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I was referring to the guys saying 'Oh take 20 bil isk and go ruin MY gameplay, you cannot' tards who go on to post their ingame char and killboard. Like I (or anyone else) gives a shit, as I've stated many times to that baiting. I don't think a first paragraph direct reply could be any clearer, but obviously needs to be as fan-boys seem to lack the ability to read and comprehend. But nothing new there eh?
See there you go again with 'Prove me wrong, you cannot touch me blah blah wah wah'. I'm no backpeddling a jot. I AM SAYING I DONT CARE ABOUT YOU. Effs sake, you just cannot understand can you, I've better things to do than chase down a no name idiot. I even said I don't get my kicks out of griefing others, but you see that as backpeddling. Lol, if it makes you feel better *pats carebear on head*.
It stands to reason that if ANYONE had the time or inclination to go after you in particular your gameplay WOULD be affected, you seem to think you are untouchable though with your newb 2 & 1/2 years experience carebearing.
Thought about how many cash farmers are doing so completely anonymously via Plex, so will rarely if ever get banned or stopped? You probably have and do this yourself which is why you defend it so vehemently. I'm not going to spell out how you could use Plex to push real RMT, but no keep sticking your head up your ass and singing lalala 'doesn't affect me'. Then again, I suspect you are just the sort of idiot who relies on his isk income from selling Plex to survive. Anyway, I'm done replying as well.
The thought of someone going after my Corp (and that's not even counting the alliance) with 20 or 40 bill in plex is actually pretty funny. I think if you had the time and experience you claim you would see the humor aswell. It 's not like RMT was not going to be there, so the only real effect on game play is that EVE is not as profitable for RMT. TBH, as far as I can see, you are the only one really supporting RMT in this thread, because without PLEX the game would be much more profitable, and less work for them. Just the way I see it M8.
RMT likes to play dirty, CCP is just saying bring it on. It's EVE 101...... hit 'em where it hurts.
Read my posts, couldn't be more RMT (&PLEX) if I tried. Anyone using RL cash to achieve something ingame which they wouldn't have been able to, getting a new ship, character, bpo whatever is just plain cheating. Plex makes it that much less of a level playing field and isn't some magical panacea or silver bullet for RMT.
And yes, using a 2nd account (or 3rd, 4th whatever) paid for with RL cash is an advantage, but it is an advantage which a player still has to spend time ingame to achieve. But with Plex, the cash farmers can now fund any number of anonymous accounts to carry out their RMT. Good for CCP getting a 'cut of the action', maybe. Not good for players still blighted by bots, macroers, etc etc.
[Mod Edit]
Uhm didn't see your warchest impacting my Gameplay tonight or last night. You really are a fool, what CCP have done is just implemented so well it does not impact at all. As stated way way above you cannot impact my gameplay because that is all it is , in this game Plex does not kill a game in the standard Cash shop scenario it does. I wonder what the difference is ?
It is not about what you care or don't it's about the garbage you spouted here. Still waiting for that WoW impact you will inflict on all us lesser mortals ingame, ( don't see it somehow). And you did talk about ruining peoples gameplay which is pathatic in itself but sadly you wont ruin mine.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I laughed as well, apparently I am under house arrest with Ruinals fleet on my doorstep. NOT !!!! I showed a friend the thread the other night while we were online, well extracts of it. He laughed, he had lost about half a billion earlier this week so I put it to him that he should buy a couple of Plexs' , he laughed and told me to get a life. At which point i just transfered the money he needed to kit out his replacement.
Stable economy, stable game no need to buy anything from anyone. I guess Plex doesnt impact in the circles I play in and the game just gets better, it does not even register. Sad "Ruinal" that your negative approach is wasted... on me
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Maybe someday you will entertain the notion that PLEX allows players a way to fight back against those that cheat, because if you're looking for the MMORPG where they don't, it's going to be a long and fruitless search.
To Isane.......LOL yeah I have used PLEX once when I bought a GTC to activate an alt. I have no use for it, and really don't care about it. Oh the Irony