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STEAM USERS: YOUR WARNING IS HERE

ponerrponerr Member Posts: 24

Are you enjoying your steam account and the handling of your games from one location. Is it easy to download and upgrade right?

They have a nice store to get all your business did they? Even tossing out mass deals to win your patronage... Cool, on the flipside they worked with others to secure VAC protection and DRM management... So they get money from other angles.. Great for them. Svings for you is it not? So you would think.. until you learn the truth..

You love them right now... But, you never seen it coming.. It will one day.. and here is the warning..

BE VERY CAREFUL of accumulating your collecting on Steam. AND HERE IS WHY

Ever had a billing problem with Steam? Maybe not, It isnt too hard to make purchases, but what if you bought a game and it didnt work and they refuse to give you a refund. This is what happened to me today and this is what I found out.... Steam owns me... and apparently they also own my entire software collection..

That's right, they own my software collection, It is not I who paid the full price. I bought a game with some really tough DRM on it.. it actually requires online connection to play the game and saves your saved games on their system.. Thats how they track, to proveyou are not a criminal. I quickly had problems witih this system and every 10 minutes I started getting disconnects and unable to play my game and have rude interruptions trying to learn how to play my new game because it couldnt connect to their system, however Steam had no problem logging the time still supposedly trying to play the game... (Obiviously i was never disconnected eh) I left the game run in the background and went to sleep... I dont shut down my computer at night, it was stuck in offline mode.. What do i know that I am being tracked??? Im playing an offline game.. I am not even realzing i am in DRM problems here.. Anyhow I Woke up next day.. same problem, i cant play the game due to the DRM saying i am not connected to the internet.. I now realize I bought some crazy DRM game and confirmed it in the forums, everyone is having the problem.. I cant support this crap. this is ridiculous. so I go for a refund..

Steam says no, i played for 12 hours.. I said bullshit, i went to sleep, go get proof from the saved game that i played 12 hours.. I demand a refund, this is ridiculous,who cares if i did play for 12 hours? its 12 hours? not 12 days... what if i bought a pair of jeans and didnt like them i would have to bring them back in 12 hours? Anyhow, its proven in your own game forums that everyone else is having the exact problem I have, i am not interested in technical sujpport or waiting for them to fix.. IM interested in my consumer rights.. getting a refund for a purchase I did not get as expect. To top my case, the carebears in the forums who backed the DRM at first, came back to change their minds.. whoever has seen this take place?? Even people that said quit whining, came back to say, omg you are correct, this is horrible.. So i want a refund, wtf, give it to me.. I have been a customer for 5-6 years? have thousands of purchases for myself hundreds of gifsts.. whats the big deal, you lose 10 bucks and you retain a customer.. but no, they are having massive refunds and trying to save the sale.. but i am not interested, they tried, i demanded the refund...



So again,

Anyhow, i said, this purchase aint even 24 hours old.. refund my money, i dont want to deal with this.. they refused saying i would first have to go thru technical support..

I denied, saying no I know my consumer rights and my state protects me and my purchase, your policy does not overwrite the law of my state.. you are to give me a refund or I am charging back the purchase. (carebears.. Check your laws, i do have this right)

AND QUICKLY WE LEARNED



STEAM THREATENS

IF YOU CHARGEBACK THE PURCHASE WE WILL SUSPEND YOUR ACCOUNT UNTIL THE CHARGES ARE COLLECTED

I have over $2000 of software about 60% of their library in my account.. They are threatening to take all this away from me for getting a refund I am rightfully owed and protected from by my state and my credit card laws, my state issued consumer rights.

But they dont care.. they are getting mass refunds and defending this issue, thinking they can steal over $2000 of my software collection trrying to keep their $20 profit..

BE WARNED.. you may love Steam now.. but if you ever, I repeat EVER have a billing issue. its clear here they use this leverage to their advantage and sway you into winning a battle that is

The bigger your Steam account gets, the more leverage they have to keep your money!!

BOYCOTT STEAM TODAY!!!! Between them and the DRM, its better off skipping retailers altogether anyhow..

You can lose your entire steam account for $59.99 or less!!!! 

Lets go back to retail and get the box! When its all said and done the convienence Is just not worth it!!!!

 

-- Pon --

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Comments

  • NamicoNamico Member Posts: 40

    If i can't get a game at the retailer i won't play that game, easy as that!

    and im not intrested in having my games linked up to any 3rd party software eather.

  • chaoster89chaoster89 Member Posts: 56

     Buddy if you buy a game and do not like it, its youre own fault dont ask for a refound with some bs story.

  • nAAtimusnAAtimus Member Posts: 342

    What game was it?

    I'm not here to complete my forum PVP dailies.

  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,131

    What was the game so I can avoid it?



  • ponerrponerr Member Posts: 24

    Silent Hunter 5  - UBISOFT

    Most disgusting DRM I ever seen.. Werent they just getting sued over this stuff not long ago.. and here they are getting even worse..

    Company is dead in my eyes.. Can't believe how they have treated me as a customer..... Ubisoft is BANNED IN MY HOUSEHOLD.

     

    -- Pon --

  • chaoster89chaoster89 Member Posts: 56

     Ims sorry but steam would not risk the reputation of the company saying you played 12 hours to save 50$ end of story close the thread plz

  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 1,992
    Originally posted by chaoster89


     Buddy if you buy a game and do not like it, its youre own fault dont ask for a refound with some bs story.

     

    Buddy learn to read.

    He's not returning because he dosen't like it (wouldn't matter if that was true), he's returning because it's unplayable on his system.

    I agree with him, KNOW YOUR RIGHTS AS A CONSUMER!

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • MyskMysk Member Posts: 982

     You're entirely correct, of course, but there are a couple of issues to point out:

    A.) Software - games, MS Office, whatever - is never "purchased".  Technically speaking you purchase a license that legally gives you a right to run the software.  Yet just like a driver's license, the license can be revoked.

    Don't get me wrong.  They're being absolute nits about it, in my opinion, but that's the technicality that they have you by.  I ran into a similar situation awhile back that made me look at my games list and say, "No more."  It was a frightening wake up call.  Knowing about the license issue is one thing.  Experiencing the problem is another (frightening, expensive) matter entirely.

    Also, don't do anything that will annoy Steam.  They can ban your account if you don't behave, so do be careful about voicing your opinion.  It is not a democracy, after all.

    Also, do not tie your physical copy to your Steam account.  Same issue, ya know?

    A lot of people won't have trouble with it and they'll laugh at the tiny possibility that it would ever happen to them, but you can bet that they'd be pitching a fit if it DID happen to them.

    B.) DRM is DRM.  It's evil, vile, and as we all know, the only people who it punishes are the paying customers.  This is going to sound incredibly harsh, but let this be a lesson to everyone.  Remember what happened to you, and do not support DRM'd products in the future - if that is at all possible.  It is pointless, but prevalent.

    Good luck.  I empathize with you, but I suspect that you'll get flamed and called names by people who think that something like this could never happen to them.  They're good netizens, after all, and gosh it's Valve!  So how could it be bad? Heh heh...

    image
    I probably don't follow the threads that I post in. If you want me to see a response then feel free to PM me.

  • KordeshKordesh Member Posts: 1,715
    Originally posted by chaoster89


     Buddy if you buy a game and do not like it, its youre own fault dont ask for a refound with some bs story.

    This. Sounds like his problem is he bought some bullshit with the new "Online Only" DRM ala Assassins Creed 2 or Settlers 7 and then went into a rage when he couldn't return it when he found out that it couldn't be used in Steam's offline mode (because the "online only" thing is part of the third party DRM, not Steam) . 

    He has every right to be pissed about the absolutely stupid new Ubisoft DRM system, but he needs to STFU until he understands WHO he needs to complain about WHAT to, because it's certainly not Steam, and I can say nothing but good things for the service. 

    Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.

    EAT ME MMORPG.com!

  • TJ_420TJ_420 Member Posts: 224

    I feel for you OP- I wont use steam and have warned people away from them-

    The reason for a "no return" policy on software is due to people copying games and returning them- That is IT. When using a service like Steam there is no way to copy the damn game anyway. Period.

    I would just give up on steam, torrent the games you have paid for already since you have already paid anyhow and consider this a lesson learned.

  • you can write a letter to your attorney general and they will contact steam for you and get it resolved.  they love corporate greed cases.  I should know, I use to be the one that dealt with the attorney generals when complaints were lodged against the compnay i use to work for.  (tigerdirect.com)

  • TJ_420TJ_420 Member Posts: 224
    Originally posted by Thomas2006

    [Mod Edit]

    The only person that looks like they have been ripped off is you.  You bought a game that had stupid DRM in it and support the company that puts out that crap. It's not steams fault you cant play the game. You should take your issue up with UBI Soft or whoever the maker is of said game.  I can only imagine its AC2 or SH4 as they are the only two new games that have came out with the stupidest DRM of all times.

    Stop supporting them crappy companys by not buying there DRM laced games. Become part of the solution by not buying the games and showing these companys we have control over the software we buy, not them.

     

    ahhhhh- I bet you're correct... If that is the case, I agree. Quit supporting these assholes or we will get more of the same.

  • VrmithraxVrmithrax Member UncommonPosts: 17

     Yah, let's go back to the massive crippling DRM, rootkits and being forced to have your DVD in the drive at all times to play a game...  Having to keep track of the original DVDs...  Looking at horror upon the big scratch on an original which means you have to buy a new copy...  Having to go through the install process, and then call tech support when you exceed your alloted number of installs to try to get a new installation unlocked for the software you purchased.  Oh, and manual patching, yah I miss that too!

    I'll be honest, your story does not sound fun, not in the least.  But if you have THOUSANDS of dollars worth of software on Steam, you obviously thought the process was great up until this.  You ran into a problem, and now are screaming foul and expecting everyone to drop them over your issue?  Instead, you should maybe consider a more level-headed course of action, reporting them to business rating services like the Better Business Bureau, stating your case on some gaming sites and computer periodicals, and a barrage of letters to any "help" or "report a problem" addresses you can find for Steam / Valve.  Puffing up your chest and yelling "DOOOOOOOOOM" at people typically has the opposite response from what you are looking for, and either gets you ignored or attracts a string of derisive comments (see my opening for an example of the instant attitude your rant triggered).

    Steam isn't perfect.  Maybe you can help to create a situation which makes it better, by helping to bring attention to a flaw in their billing process.  People are usually more willing to work with helpful and cooperative customers, where the belligerent and difficult get quickly shut down and tossed aside - nobody likes to deal with that type of person.

    Good luck in getting your issue resolved.  Hate to see you throw away thousands in games before you have explored all of your options.

    Sig? I don't need no stinking sig!

  • frankahfrankah Member UncommonPosts: 73

    OP, that sucks really bad man. I hope you get your refund, as it sounds, STEAM is in the wrong.

    Plain and simple. IF the game is unplayable due to their system of DRM, you are correct in asking for a refund.

    Franker

  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,131
    Originally posted by ponerr


    Silent Hunter 5  - UBISOFT
    Most disgusting DRM I ever seen.. Werent they just getting sued over this stuff not long ago.. and here they are getting even worse..
    Company is dead in my eyes.. Can't believe how they have treated me as a customer..... Ubisoft is BANNED IN MY HOUSEHOLD.
     



     

    I was looking at getting that game too. With UBI always had issues with DRM activating etc in most games.



  • BaggunsBagguns Member Posts: 152
    Originally posted by Namico


    If i can't get a game at the retailer i won't play that game, easy as that!
    and im not intrested in having my games linked up to any 3rd party software eather.

     

    I do not like this either.  Recently the games I bought have made me link them with a Steam account.  I don't see the point in it, all I see is potential trouble.

    Mr. Bagguns

  • StridarStridar Member UncommonPosts: 134

    How you wouldn't see this coming I don't know.  You buy from them, you then want your money back on something you paid for without them giving it to you and do a charge back then of course they will with hold things purchased on that account until you pay for what is owed.

     

    Guess you learned a valuable lesson. Don't shit where you sleep.

  • MandarrMandarr Member Posts: 300

    Yeah, you go show them dude lol.  Even a retail store will only allow you to return the same game you bought for that exact same game if it's not working properly.  They don't have to give you a refund once it's been opened whether you've even bothered installing the game or not.  I've bought a lot of dud games off of Steam that I don't like as well as from retail stores that I hate and don't play.  It's a chance we all take.  If there's a problem with the game itself, you'll have to wait for the developers of the game to make a patch.  Steam has nothing to do with that and neither do retail outlets.  I'd suggest you not act like a cry baby and just chock it up as a lesson learned that the particular game you purchased is not fun.  Read some reviews the next time perhaps maybe.  To throw your whole library of games away over one pathetic game is stupid dude. 

    This website is a safe haven for trolls and haters. I'm done with this pathetic site.

  • EkibiogamiEkibiogami Member UncommonPosts: 2,154

    Umm... Its clearly labeld on the store page it has DRM... Who cares? I Just dont Buy them. I Dont feel like it has any bering on anything. Why are you Up in arms about this? If you stop payment on a game then its their Right to stop letting you play on their service. Read the TOS...

    If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
    —Samuel Adams

  • ArcheminosArcheminos Member Posts: 283

    I love how people ramble on blaming the place they bought the game for things wrong with the game itself....that's like buying a book at a store and blaming the store because the book was written in arabic when you wanted english. DRM is NOT controlled by STEAM, or direct2drive, or any other distributor. You aren't getting your money back because you're blaming the problems on the wrong people. Learn before you whine.

  • SoujyoSoujyo Member UncommonPosts: 24

    first of all... holy wall of text. Try breaking things up into a paragraph or two to make it less eyeball melting. Second of all the game clearly has to be assassins creed 2 or some splinter cell variant but I don't believe that's released yet.

    This DRM is strictly being used by I believe ubisoft and no one else is testing the waters  to this degree yet, so yeah I agree avoid buying that crap because it is really quite annoying and troublesome considering this is a two way system. First it requires you to have a stable and working internet and second it requires them to have their servers operating flawlessly 100% of the time for you to play it. Also saved games I believe are required to be double verified both offline and online, so if you have a save game from a friend or another source and it wasn't saved directly through your game account and mirrored online you can't use it.

     

    As for steam being a horrible service because of this... I generally disagree, yes it's quite annoying they can threaten $2000 worth of software all tied to your account. On the other hand they're usually pretty lenient as of the late with dealing refunds to users having trouble if you don't act overly pretentious and deal with it the way they ask you to. Just like any other company interested in making money they want it to be enough of a pain in the rear that not everyone jumps on the band wagon and does it.

    Forcing you to call in and speak to their CSR over the phone may be a pain, but they do this to be sure you aren't being equally a pain in their rear by being a flaky consumer. Stating your "rights" for your given state is all fine and dandy assuming you want to go toe to toe with Steam in a legal formality, but I'm guessing that's not the case.

    Again like any normal competitive Digital distribution company they will suspend your account and all your games for a charge back because unlike a physical box they can't easily reclaim your cd key, authorized accounts with the company whom owns the specific game, nor brute force the data off your computer as a means to lock you out of the game. The left hand isn't able to talk directly to the right hand in real time with that volume of customers to know precisely why you charged back said game.

     

    So how about you calm down and deal with the problem in the way they've been asking you to, and get it handled like a respectable adult rather than screaming doom and gloom on the forums. I'm not here to flame you, I'm simply offering you a rather easy and painless way to get your goal achieved.

     

    Btw steam tracks your game time locally due to the fact the software is installed on your machine and used to launch the game + game time tracking script. Since its doubtfully bigger than a few bytes of information it only takes a split second for it to update their servers with how much time the game has been open. Regardless of if you were at the controls or not.

  • DrakynnDrakynn Member Posts: 2,030

    The OPs issue stems from UBISOFT''s DRM and servers and not anything to do with Steam jsut to set that straight.Silent Hunter 5 is the first game to use Ubisoft's controversial cloud DRM that requires constant online connection and saves games on ubisoft's servers.

     

    Having said that I have had Billing issues with Steam before and had them resolved in a polite,helpful and satisfactory manner by their customer service so this sounds kind of unusual to me.Whilst Steam would be correct in logging that the OP spent 12 hours in the game as gar as steam knew via the OPs own description of what he did.perhaps they think there is only 12 hours worth of gameplay in the game and consider the OP has finished the game and wants their money back lol.I would find that unusual for a sub simulator though.Good Luck to the OP.

  • joker007mojoker007mo Member Posts: 712

    where i realize that you dont wish to go thru support i would you wont get money back but they will give you game credit for another game through their store i know as i havent had your drm troubles but did purchase a game with multiplayer that didnt work not only did they fix the multiplayer issue later but they also gave me credit for a $20 game of my choosing and i bought the game during thier christmas specials time so i actually made out on an extra $10 so i cant complain

    image

  • patrikd23patrikd23 Member UncommonPosts: 1,155
    Originally posted by ponerr


    Are you enjoying your steam account and the handling of your games from one location. Is it easy to download and upgrade right?

    They have a nice store to get all your business did they? Even tossing out mass deals to win your patronage... Cool, on the flipside they worked with others to secure VAC protection and DRM management... So they get money from other angles.. Great for them. Svings for you is it not? So you would think.. until you learn the truth..
    You love them right now... But, you never seen it coming.. It will one day.. and here is the warning..
    BE VERY CAREFUL of accumulating your collecting on Steam. AND HERE IS WHY
    Ever had a billing problem with Steam? Maybe not, It isnt too hard to make purchases, but what if you bought a game and it didnt work and they refuse to give you a refund. This is what happened to me today and this is what I found out.... Steam owns me... and apparently they also own my entire software collection..
    That's right, they own my software collection, It is not I who paid the full price. I bought a game with some really tough DRM on it.. it actually requires online connection to play the game and saves your saved games on their system.. Thats how they track, to proveyou are not a criminal. I quickly had problems witih this system and every 10 minutes I started getting disconnects and unable to play my game and have rude interruptions trying to learn how to play my new game because it couldnt connect to their system, however Steam had no problem logging the time still supposedly trying to play the game... (Obiviously i was never disconnected eh) I left the game run in the background and went to sleep... I dont shut down my computer at night, it was stuck in offline mode.. What do i know that I am being tracked??? Im playing an offline game.. I am not even realzing i am in DRM problems here.. Anyhow I Woke up next day.. same problem, i cant play the game due to the DRM saying i am not connected to the internet.. I now realize I bought some crazy DRM game and confirmed it in the forums, everyone is having the problem.. I cant support this crap. this is ridiculous. so I go for a refund..
    Steam says no, i played for 12 hours.. I said bullshit, i went to sleep, go get proof from the saved game that i played 12 hours.. I demand a refund, this is ridiculous,who cares if i did play for 12 hours? its 12 hours? not 12 days... what if i bought a pair of jeans and didnt like them i would have to bring them back in 12 hours? Anyhow, its proven in your own game forums that everyone else is having the exact problem I have, i am not interested in technical sujpport or waiting for them to fix.. IM interested in my consumer rights.. getting a refund for a purchase I did not get as expect. To top my case, the carebears in the forums who backed the DRM at first, came back to change their minds.. whoever has seen this take place?? Even people that said quit whining, came back to say, omg you are correct, this is horrible.. So i want a refund, wtf, give it to me.. I have been a customer for 5-6 years? have thousands of purchases for myself hundreds of gifsts.. whats the big deal, you lose 10 bucks and you retain a customer.. but no, they are having massive refunds and trying to save the sale.. but i am not interested, they tried, i demanded the refund...


    So again,
    Anyhow, i said, this purchase aint even 24 hours old.. refund my money, i dont want to deal with this.. they refused saying i would first have to go thru technical support..
    I denied, saying no I know my consumer rights and my state protects me and my purchase, your policy does not overwrite the law of my state.. you are to give me a refund or I am charging back the purchase. (carebears.. Check your laws, i do have this right)
    AND QUICKLY WE LEARNED


    STEAM THREATENS
    IF YOU CHARGEBACK THE PURCHASE WE WILL SUSPEND YOUR ACCOUNT UNTIL THE CHARGES ARE COLLECTED

    I have over $2000 of software about 60% of their library in my account.. They are threatening to take all this away from me for getting a refund I am rightfully owed and protected from by my state and my credit card laws, my state issued consumer rights.
    But they dont care.. they are getting mass refunds and defending this issue, thinking they can steal over $2000 of my software collection trrying to keep their $20 profit..
    BE WARNED.. you may love Steam now.. but if you ever, I repeat EVER have a billing issue. its clear here they use this leverage to their advantage and sway you into winning a battle that is
    The bigger your Steam account gets, the more leverage they have to keep your money!!
    BOYCOTT STEAM TODAY!!!! Between them and the DRM, its better off skipping retailers altogether anyhow..

    You can lose your entire steam account for $59.99 or less!!!! 
    Lets go back to retail and get the box! When its all said and done the convienence Is just not worth it!!!!
     

     

    The game you are refering to isnt by any chance a UBIsoft game with DRM on it? After I found out what  UBI did I definetly will not buy one more game from them.

    Why DRM then, MW2 didnt need any protection of that kind. I know its an online game but still. And they made billions on it, well activision did after they bought the game from Infinity Ward (pwned) :D

    So maybe UBIsoft should spend more time trying to make a good game insted of making crappy with too much protection? Like DRM. I would rather give my money away to an Indie game company than give a cent to UBIsoft as it looks now.

    And about steam, I hate steam too and the fact that MW2 has to be played tru steam is the mistake of the year on infinity wards.

    But the fact that you dont own the games sounds very odd, then they should have a sign that says " Lend a game for 59,99 euro". Anything far from that would be a lie then, but I wanna see more facts until I jump to that conclusion.

  • treysmoothtreysmooth Member UncommonPosts: 648
    Originally posted by ponerr


    Silent Hunter 5  - UBISOFT
    Most disgusting DRM I ever seen.. Werent they just getting sued over this stuff not long ago.. and here they are getting even worse..
    Company is dead in my eyes.. Can't believe how they have treated me as a customer..... Ubisoft is BANNED IN MY HOUSEHOLD.
     

     

    Easy solution do research before you buy a title.  ALL of the ubi soft crap has this protection now.  Yes its garbage and yes I find it borderline illegal, but it says that the software comes with it just like Assassins Creed II does and all the other UBI crap.  Hard lesson but tbh your fight is with ubisoft from my perspective not steam.  

This discussion has been closed.