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Ubisoft's New Online Super DRM - Cracked in 1 day

harvest151harvest151 Member UncommonPosts: 217

With the new release of Silent hunter 5 + Its first patch based on Ubisofts new 24/7 Internet connection requirement for play, in just over 24 hours has been totally defeated.

What did that run them, about a million bucks?  So tell us Ubi. Who is going to suffer under this now? The hackers, or the paying customer?

SKIDROW bring us new “Silent Hunter 5 Battle of the Atlantic” game. Funny thing is that this game is based on newest Ubisoft DRM protection which requires you to be online during the gameplay. Poor legit users…

 

 

[mod edit]

 

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Comments

  • FaelanFaelan Member UncommonPosts: 819

    I'm still laughing. This is just so funny. Now they have a bunch of people that they've alienated with the DRM who won't be buying the game and the pirates will still be sailing their ship as always. Yeah... brilliant move Ubi... brilliant

    I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

  • harvest151harvest151 Member UncommonPosts: 217

    And now confirmed working 100% from quite a few sources.   I literally would pay 100$ to be in Ubisofts DRM Offices tomorrow morning.   Someone's head is most likely going to roll....then explode. Possibly at the same time.

  • GTwanderGTwander Member UncommonPosts: 6,035
    Originally posted by harvest151


    And now confirmed working 100% from quite a few sources.   I literally would pay 100$ to be in Ubisofts DRM Offices tomorrow morning.   Someone's head is most likely going to roll....then explode. Possibly at the same time.

     

    Impossible, the head would not roll once exploded. It would either roll, then explode, or explode before hitting the ground and fail to roll.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
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  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993

    I call it poetic justice. Way to go, SKIDROW!

    Ubisoft, you want to treat your legitimate customers like criminals? This is what you get. 

    This has got to be the biggest DRM fail since Spore.

    image

  • SgtFrogSgtFrog Member Posts: 5,001

    lol, someone will always crack it no matter what developers try.

    image
    March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon

  • EkibiogamiEkibiogami Member UncommonPosts: 2,154

    What did you Expect?? They gave the Hackers a "Chalange" Like they were gana roll over and say Ok. Fine.

    Hackers arn't doing this because they want all of us to play for free. they do it for the Hack and to Rub it in the face of the companys they let others use their hack.

    If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
    —Samuel Adams

  • sephersepher Member Posts: 3,561

    Do know the difference between the consumer who's experience is hurt by too much DRM, and a person who just steals software, because they aren't one in the same. So if you're a person who was going to steal whatever software anyway, don't feel all self-righteous as if you'd have been screwed over if you bought a legitimate copy; you wouldn't of and you're a thief regardless of  how difficult or easy a piece of software was to crack.

    You steal either because you refuse to afford or refuse to bother affording, not because of any DRM measures, 'games suck nowadays' type excuses, or whatever the excuse is today. Be real about it. Complaining about DRM and citing it as a reason to steal is the equivalent to saying you buy electronics from fences because the packages are preopened. The true reason is simpler; you're a thief.

  • zeowyrmzeowyrm Member Posts: 746
    Originally posted by sepher


    Do know the difference between the consumer who's experience is hurt by too much DRM, and a person who just steals software, because they aren't one in the same. So if you're a person who was going to steal whatever software anyway, don't feel all self-righteous as if you'd have been screwed over if you bought a legitimate copy; you wouldn't of and you're a thief regardless of  how difficult or easy a piece of software was to crack.
    You steal either because you refuse to afford or refuse to bother affording, not because of any DRM measures, 'games suck nowadays' type excuses, or whatever the excuse is today. Be real about it. Complaining about DRM and citing it as a reason to steal is the equivalent to saying you buy electronics from fences because the packages are preopened. The true reason is simpler; you're a thief.

     

    Fine we're thieves.  Maybe some of us didn't start that way though.  Maybe some of us got tired of the hoops we had to jump through to prove we weren't thieves.  Maybe some of us got so sick of being assumed to be thieves, that we just said "Fuck it" and became thieves.  But the ultimate point that the op was trying to make seems lost on you.

    Ubisoft's grand plan failed, and now they've alienated even more paying customers in the process.  So yeah, we're having fun thumbing our noses at them. 

  • sephersepher Member Posts: 3,561
    Originally posted by zeowyrm

    Originally posted by sepher


    Do know the difference between the consumer who's experience is hurt by too much DRM, and a person who just steals software, because they aren't one in the same. So if you're a person who was going to steal whatever software anyway, don't feel all self-righteous as if you'd have been screwed over if you bought a legitimate copy; you wouldn't of and you're a thief regardless of  how difficult or easy a piece of software was to crack.
    You steal either because you refuse to afford or refuse to bother affording, not because of any DRM measures, 'games suck nowadays' type excuses, or whatever the excuse is today. Be real about it. Complaining about DRM and citing it as a reason to steal is the equivalent to saying you buy electronics from fences because the packages are preopened. The true reason is simpler; you're a thief.

     

    Fine we're thieves.  Maybe some of us didn't start that way though.  Maybe some of us got tired of the hoops we had to jump through to prove we weren't thieves.  Maybe some of us got so sick of being assumed to be thieves, that we just said "Fuck it" and became thieves.  But the ultimate point that the op was trying to make seems lost on you.

    Ubisoft's grand plan failed, and now they've alienated even more paying customers in the process.  So yeah, we're having fun thumbing our noses at them. 



     

    What hoops did you jump through?

    Is having no guarantee on speeds, having to maintain ratios and etc on a torrent site really convenient compared to a Steam or Direct2Drive one click download?

    Is reading a CD Key off of a case and typing it in, really that much of a hoop compared to reading it out of some obscure notecard or generating it in a key generator? 

    Is having to you know, 'Update' without having to install a new cracked .exe that big of a hoop?

    This is what completely undeserved self-righteousness will do to you; make you believe you're Robin Hood when you're just a thief.

    That 'I got tired of being assumed I'm a thief' argument makes zero sense, because every single freakin' brick and mortar store you walk through assumes you're a thief the moment you walk through a tag detector and cameras train on you. What's your self-righteous retribution for that, you only steal out of stores now?

    Your cable company assumes you're a thief by keeping important connections to your house either buried in your ground or up on a pole. You should show them and stop paying your bill and reconnect that shit yourself.

    What about those convenience stores? Even worse, some of them are behind bullet proof glass and assume you're a robber or murderer! Only one thing to do, bring your gun next time. That'll show them to slide your receipt through metal half-pipe which its easier to just walk out the front door with the chips.

    Get out of here. If the logic escapes you of why every business protects themselves from the minority that -do- violate their rights to sell their products, then don't be all self-righteous about it for just video games, take that logic with you in every aspect of life 'lest you be a hypocrite.

    As for "Ubisoft's grand plan", it was only as grand a plan as Best Buy's or another store's receipt checkers. It doesn't really alienate the honest paying customer because they understand that thieves are about. And I'm sure Ubisoft didn't believe they created a 100% forever working measure against thieves; it did what it was supposed to do, add more hesitancy to the thieves out there towards Ubisoft products and if nothing else, it added more steps to their not-a-loop convenient notecard crack instructions.

    And please, the only thing worse than feigning self-righteousness as a thief, is believing you're actually sticking it to the establishment. I'm pretty sure Ubisoft won't go under because of this, and this is about the only place you'd dare thumb your nose due to the shame of being a thief; the anonymity of an internet board. Not like you'd parade around infront of your family, co-workers, friends or even strangers in person and talk about how much you got tired of jumping through hoops so you resorted to stealing software and you're proud of it.

    So anything you say here isn't exactly thumbing your nose, because only you see you do it. You're just trying to make yourself feel better about being a thief. Long and short of it.

  • IhmoteppIhmotepp Member Posts: 14,495
    Originally posted by sepher


    Do know the difference between the consumer who's experience is hurt by too much DRM, and a person who just steals software, because they aren't one in the same. So if you're a person who was going to steal whatever software anyway, don't feel all self-righteous as if you'd have been screwed over if you bought a legitimate copy; you wouldn't of and you're a thief regardless of  how difficult or easy a piece of software was to crack.
    You steal either because you refuse to afford or refuse to bother affording, not because of any DRM measures, 'games suck nowadays' type excuses, or whatever the excuse is today. Be real about it. Complaining about DRM and citing it as a reason to steal is the equivalent to saying you buy electronics from fences because the packages are preopened. The true reason is simpler; you're a thief.

     

    I purchased Borderlands specifically because it didnt' have any of this crap. I installed it, and it works.

    I pay for good games, I often pass on games if they have a bunch of DRM crap that comes with them.

    I picked up other games while shopping, saw the DRM on them,  put them back on the shelf, and then paid for Borderlands.

    When given a choice, I'll buy the game without the DRM.

     

    image

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993
    Originally posted by sepher


    Do know the difference between the consumer who's experience is hurt by too much DRM, and a person who just steals software, because they aren't one in the same. So if you're a person who was going to steal whatever software anyway, don't feel all self-righteous as if you'd have been screwed over if you bought a legitimate copy; you wouldn't of and you're a thief regardless of  how difficult or easy a piece of software was to crack.
    You steal either because you refuse to afford or refuse to bother affording, not because of any DRM measures, 'games suck nowadays' type excuses, or whatever the excuse is today. Be real about it. Complaining about DRM and citing it as a reason to steal is the equivalent to saying you buy electronics from fences because the packages are preopened. The true reason is simpler; you're a thief.

     

    This has nothing to do with stealing games. The point is that DRM causes a lot of grief to paying customers, while the people it was designed to combat have no issues. Some forms of DRM install unwanted software on your computer which can interfere and conflict with your hardware or software. Some limit the amount of installs you can have. Some require a constant connection to the internet.

    I was just reading an article about deployed military personnel who cannot play games they bought because the games require internet verification. Internet access is expensive and slow on bases in Iraq and Afghanistan. Very often, games restrict access by regions so a game bought in United States may not work ion a military base n the middle east. Paying customers should not have to deal with issues like this.

    Pirates, on the other hand, do not have to deal with any of these issues. Know why? Because the cracks remove all of the DRM measures. So the pirates are actually getting a better, more stable game. I know a lot of people, myself included who purchase games and use cracks in order to not deal with DRM.

    Companies are spending millions of dollars per year on trying to develop harsher and harsher DRM measures which do absolutely nothing to diminish or deter piracy. All this DRM crap only hurts the legitimate user and in some cases pushes him or her to piracy. I remember when Spore's DRM was announced a lot of people pirated it as a form of protest.

    I'm happy that SKIDROW cracked Ubisoft's new protection scheme. Not because people will steal games but because the draconian anti-piracy scheme was a slap in the face to all paying customers and especially military personnel deployed overseas.

    image

  • sephersepher Member Posts: 3,561
    Originally posted by Ihmotepp

    Originally posted by sepher


    Do know the difference between the consumer who's experience is hurt by too much DRM, and a person who just steals software, because they aren't one in the same. So if you're a person who was going to steal whatever software anyway, don't feel all self-righteous as if you'd have been screwed over if you bought a legitimate copy; you wouldn't of and you're a thief regardless of  how difficult or easy a piece of software was to crack.
    You steal either because you refuse to afford or refuse to bother affording, not because of any DRM measures, 'games suck nowadays' type excuses, or whatever the excuse is today. Be real about it. Complaining about DRM and citing it as a reason to steal is the equivalent to saying you buy electronics from fences because the packages are preopened. The true reason is simpler; you're a thief.

     

    I purchased Borderlands specifically because it didnt' have any of this crap. I installed it, and it works.

    I pay for good games, I often pass on games if they have a bunch of DRM crap that comes with them.

    I picked up other games while shopping, saw the DRM on them,  put them back on the shelf, and then paid for Borderlands.

    When given a choice, I'll buy the game without the DRM.

     



     

    What's the point? If you dislike DRM, don't buy games with DRM. Having not bought something because it has DRM or any other reason though cannot become a reason for a person to steal it instead.

    I buy croutons that come in those nice rippable bags rather than the cereal-type boxes, but that wouldn't give me justification to start stealing the ones in packages I don't like.

    There's plenty of products we don't buy for simple reasons as not liking how its packaged, or how its handled, but we don't start immediately stealing it and feel justified about it.

    There's not buying a product for a reason, and then there's being a thief. Being a thief is the reason you wouldn't buy a product, there's no middle-man reason such as DRM that can be used to explain becoming a thief.

  • sephersepher Member Posts: 3,561
    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by sepher


    Do know the difference between the consumer who's experience is hurt by too much DRM, and a person who just steals software, because they aren't one in the same. So if you're a person who was going to steal whatever software anyway, don't feel all self-righteous as if you'd have been screwed over if you bought a legitimate copy; you wouldn't of and you're a thief regardless of  how difficult or easy a piece of software was to crack.
    You steal either because you refuse to afford or refuse to bother affording, not because of any DRM measures, 'games suck nowadays' type excuses, or whatever the excuse is today. Be real about it. Complaining about DRM and citing it as a reason to steal is the equivalent to saying you buy electronics from fences because the packages are preopened. The true reason is simpler; you're a thief.

     

    This has nothing to do with stealing games. The point is that DRM causes a lot of grief to paying customers, while the people it was designed to combat have no issues. Some forms of DRM install unwanted software on your computer which can interfere and conflict with your hardware or software. Some limit the amount of installs you can have. Some require a constant connection to the internet.

    I was just reading an article about deployed military personnel who cannot play games they bought because the games require internet verification. Internet access is expensive and slow on bases in Iraq and Afghanistan. Very often, games restrict access by regions so a game bought in United States may not work ion a military base n the middle east. Paying customers should not have to deal with issues like this.

    Pirates, on the other hand, do not have to deal with any of these issues. Know why? Because the cracks remove all of the DRM measures. So the pirates are actually getting a better, more stable game. I know a lot of people, myself included who purchase games and use cracks in order to not deal with DRM.

    Companies are spending millions of dollars per year on trying to develop harsher and harsher DRM measures which do absolutely nothing to diminish or deter piracy. All this DRM crap only hurts the legitimate user and in some cases pushes him or her to piracy. I remember when Spore's DRM was announced a lot of people pirated it as a form of protest.

    I'm happy that SKIDROW cracked Ubisoft's new protection scheme. Not because people will steal games but because the draconian anti-piracy scheme was a slap in the face to all paying customers and especially military personnel deployed overseas.



     

    It has everything to do with stealing games.

    If you bought a game and installed it legally, and didn't like the DRM, what forbids you from downloading the same cracked .exe from wherever and replacing your own? Bam, you've purchased the game, you've gotten around anything about your software you don't like, and you aren't a thief.

    No matter how you spin it, you can't segue DRM into a reason as to why people steal. They steal because they're thieves. If DRM really was a problem, they'd simply buy the game and download the crack.

    Legitimate purchasers can enjoy the best of both worlds; being able to download, update, install without extra loops, being able to install cracks if they want and not worry about having to update later or whether or not they can play online when they want to.

    Where's the logic in being a thief? There is none except to not pay for stuff.

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993
    Originally posted by sepher

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by sepher


    Do know the difference between the consumer who's experience is hurt by too much DRM, and a person who just steals software, because they aren't one in the same. So if you're a person who was going to steal whatever software anyway, don't feel all self-righteous as if you'd have been screwed over if you bought a legitimate copy; you wouldn't of and you're a thief regardless of  how difficult or easy a piece of software was to crack.
    You steal either because you refuse to afford or refuse to bother affording, not because of any DRM measures, 'games suck nowadays' type excuses, or whatever the excuse is today. Be real about it. Complaining about DRM and citing it as a reason to steal is the equivalent to saying you buy electronics from fences because the packages are preopened. The true reason is simpler; you're a thief.

     

    This has nothing to do with stealing games. The point is that DRM causes a lot of grief to paying customers, while the people it was designed to combat have no issues. Some forms of DRM install unwanted software on your computer which can interfere and conflict with your hardware or software. Some limit the amount of installs you can have. Some require a constant connection to the internet.

    I was just reading an article about deployed military personnel who cannot play games they bought because the games require internet verification. Internet access is expensive and slow on bases in Iraq and Afghanistan. Very often, games restrict access by regions so a game bought in United States may not work ion a military base n the middle east. Paying customers should not have to deal with issues like this.

    Pirates, on the other hand, do not have to deal with any of these issues. Know why? Because the cracks remove all of the DRM measures. So the pirates are actually getting a better, more stable game. I know a lot of people, myself included who purchase games and use cracks in order to not deal with DRM.

    Companies are spending millions of dollars per year on trying to develop harsher and harsher DRM measures which do absolutely nothing to diminish or deter piracy. All this DRM crap only hurts the legitimate user and in some cases pushes him or her to piracy. I remember when Spore's DRM was announced a lot of people pirated it as a form of protest.

    I'm happy that SKIDROW cracked Ubisoft's new protection scheme. Not because people will steal games but because the draconian anti-piracy scheme was a slap in the face to all paying customers and especially military personnel deployed overseas.



     

    It has everything to do with stealing games.

    If you bought a game and installed it legally, and didn't like the DRM, what forbids you from downloading the same cracked .exe from wherever and replacing your own? Bam, you've purchased the game, you've gotten around anything about your software you don't like, and you aren't a thief.

    No matter how you spin it, you can't segue DRM into a reason as to why people steal. They steal because they're thieves. If DRM really was a problem, they'd simply buy the game and download the crack.

    Legitimate purchasers can enjoy the best of both worlds; being able to download, update, install without extra loops, being able to install cracks if they want and not worry about having to update later or whether or not they can play online when they want to.

    Where's the logic in being a thief? There is none except to not pay for stuff.

     

    I'm not excusing software piracy. I'm saying that DRM causes grief for legitimate customers and does absolutely nothing to deter pirates. As such, not only does it serve to alienate customers, it's also a completely pointless waste of resources by the developers, resources better spent on adding more content to the games.

    BTW, using cracks, even if you purchased the software is considered illegal. I see it as a necessary evil but not all view it that way. The point is though that legitimate customers should not have to rely on illegally modified versions of software in order to enjoy a hassle free gaming experience.

    image

  • Merlin1977Merlin1977 Member Posts: 168

    well if this is true then its poetic justice imo.. gamers should be able to put their disc in the drive, load it up, load there save game file and play it - im sure Ubisoft will say that their servers will always be online and available but what happens when they're not, you can't play your game. 

     

    While browsing the web for some more info on this i found a quote from someone and i totally agree with what he says, even i don't want to  lol

     

    "Ubisoft will download the patched executable, find out how the check was circumvented, and fix the problem. But, just like Sony and the PSP, Ubisoft will now start playing a cat and mouse game with hackers. For every patch it release for the Internet check, a group of hackers will work on finding a new vulnerability and release another crack."

     

    Meaning you would need to hope that the hackers continued posting a crack otherwise you're kinda screwed.

  • sephersepher Member Posts: 3,561
    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by sepher

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by sepher


    Do know the difference between the consumer who's experience is hurt by too much DRM, and a person who just steals software, because they aren't one in the same. So if you're a person who was going to steal whatever software anyway, don't feel all self-righteous as if you'd have been screwed over if you bought a legitimate copy; you wouldn't of and you're a thief regardless of  how difficult or easy a piece of software was to crack.
    You steal either because you refuse to afford or refuse to bother affording, not because of any DRM measures, 'games suck nowadays' type excuses, or whatever the excuse is today. Be real about it. Complaining about DRM and citing it as a reason to steal is the equivalent to saying you buy electronics from fences because the packages are preopened. The true reason is simpler; you're a thief.

     

    This has nothing to do with stealing games. The point is that DRM causes a lot of grief to paying customers, while the people it was designed to combat have no issues. Some forms of DRM install unwanted software on your computer which can interfere and conflict with your hardware or software. Some limit the amount of installs you can have. Some require a constant connection to the internet.

    I was just reading an article about deployed military personnel who cannot play games they bought because the games require internet verification. Internet access is expensive and slow on bases in Iraq and Afghanistan. Very often, games restrict access by regions so a game bought in United States may not work ion a military base n the middle east. Paying customers should not have to deal with issues like this.

    Pirates, on the other hand, do not have to deal with any of these issues. Know why? Because the cracks remove all of the DRM measures. So the pirates are actually getting a better, more stable game. I know a lot of people, myself included who purchase games and use cracks in order to not deal with DRM.

    Companies are spending millions of dollars per year on trying to develop harsher and harsher DRM measures which do absolutely nothing to diminish or deter piracy. All this DRM crap only hurts the legitimate user and in some cases pushes him or her to piracy. I remember when Spore's DRM was announced a lot of people pirated it as a form of protest.

    I'm happy that SKIDROW cracked Ubisoft's new protection scheme. Not because people will steal games but because the draconian anti-piracy scheme was a slap in the face to all paying customers and especially military personnel deployed overseas.



     

    It has everything to do with stealing games.

    If you bought a game and installed it legally, and didn't like the DRM, what forbids you from downloading the same cracked .exe from wherever and replacing your own? Bam, you've purchased the game, you've gotten around anything about your software you don't like, and you aren't a thief.

    No matter how you spin it, you can't segue DRM into a reason as to why people steal. They steal because they're thieves. If DRM really was a problem, they'd simply buy the game and download the crack.

    Legitimate purchasers can enjoy the best of both worlds; being able to download, update, install without extra loops, being able to install cracks if they want and not worry about having to update later or whether or not they can play online when they want to.

    Where's the logic in being a thief? There is none except to not pay for stuff.

     

    I'm not excusing software piracy. I'm saying that DRM causes grief for legitimate customers and does absolutely nothing to deter pirates. As such, not only does it serve to alienate customers, it's also a completely pointless waste of resources by the developers, resources better spent on adding more content to the games.

    BTW, using cracks, even if you purchased the software is considered illegal. I see it as a necessary evil but not all view it that way. The point is though that legitimate customers should not have to rely on illegally modified versions of software in order to enjoy a hassle free gaming experience.



     

    Of course fighting piracy deters piracy.

    If you believe changing measures does absolutely nothing, then do you also believe the level of piracy would be exactly the same if there was no DRM, no CD keys, nothing except trust that a person would install games to one PC and not share it?

    Changing countermeasures against piracy accomplishes what its supposed to; continuing to keep pirates miserable in their routines from this to that notecard.

    Can DRM cause grief to legitimate customers? Sure I guess, but games release all the time and its only twice a year or so does a single Silent Hunter or Spore pop up for pirates to clamor about "DRM!!!!". The vast majority of installing games is always what it has been; install it, put in a CD key, run it. That dynamic hasn't changed.

    As for cracking your own software and that being illegal, yeah it is. But whether or not it was illegal wasn't my point. My point was that the existence of cracks and what value they add isn't something exclusive to thieves. They're just as available to people who purchase games as well. So there's still a logical mistep in "I hate DRM, I'm going to download a game illegally". That's just stealing a DRM protected game, and downloading a crack additionally.

  • modjoe86modjoe86 Member UncommonPosts: 4,050
    Originally posted by sepher




     
    Of course fighting piracy deters piracy.
    If you believe changing measures does absolutely nothing, then do you also believe the level of piracy would be exactly the same if there was no DRM, no CD keys, nothing except trust that a person would install games to one PC and not share it?
    Changing countermeasures against piracy accomplishes what its supposed to; continuing to keep pirates miserable in their routines from this to that notecard.
     



     

    So hastling pirates is successfully fighting piracy? Seems like a defeatist attitude to me.

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  • sephersepher Member Posts: 3,561
    Originally posted by modjoe86

    Originally posted by sepher




     
    Of course fighting piracy deters piracy.
    If you believe changing measures does absolutely nothing, then do you also believe the level of piracy would be exactly the same if there was no DRM, no CD keys, nothing except trust that a person would install games to one PC and not share it?
    Changing countermeasures against piracy accomplishes what its supposed to; continuing to keep pirates miserable in their routines from this to that notecard.
     



     

    So hastling pirates is successfully fighting piracy? Seems like a defeatist attitude to me.



     

    Why's that? In what other area of business and life would it make sense to do anything other than make thieves' lives as miserable as possible? 

    You lock your front door, arm security and all sorts of shit everytime you leave your home. If someone breaks in, you don't expect your alarm to grow legs and shoot lasers, nor do you even expect the cops to get there on time. Ultimately though, you pay for security to deter as many thieves as possible, and hassle a thief as much as possible if they ignore any protection you setup.

    Nothin' defeatist at all about protecting one's property.

  • modjoe86modjoe86 Member UncommonPosts: 4,050
    Originally posted by sepher

    Originally posted by modjoe86

    Originally posted by sepher




     
    Of course fighting piracy deters piracy.
    If you believe changing measures does absolutely nothing, then do you also believe the level of piracy would be exactly the same if there was no DRM, no CD keys, nothing except trust that a person would install games to one PC and not share it?
    Changing countermeasures against piracy accomplishes what its supposed to; continuing to keep pirates miserable in their routines from this to that notecard.
     



     

    So hastling pirates is successfully fighting piracy? Seems like a defeatist attitude to me.



     

    Why's that? In what other area of business and life would it make sense to do anything other than make thieves' lives as miserable as possible? 

    You lock your front door, arm security and all sorts of shit everytime you leave your home. If someone breaks in, you don't expect your alarm to grow legs and shoot lasers, nor do you even expect the cops to get there on time. Ultimately though, you pay for security to deter as many thieves as possible, and hassle a thief as much as possible if they ignore any protection you setup.

    Nothin' defeatist at all about protecting one's property.

    Meh, if I see an ADT sign in someone's front lawn, I don't burglarize that house. (Not that I burglarize houses) If I see a game I want to pirate with a no piracy sticker on the front, I still download and crack it.  To follow more with your analogy, since it seems to be agreed upon that anti-piracy measures don't stop thieves, and they can create a burden for the legal users: if ADT installed an alarm system in your house that did nothing to prevent thieves from robbing you, and instead punished you by randomly setting off the alarm in your house to make sure you were the legal tenant of that house, that would be like anti-piracy measures.

    Well, that analogy is a huge stretch, but you cam up with it asshole! 

     

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  • manongjanymanongjany Member Posts: 5

    Its like a battle of epic proportions... ^^

  • sephersepher Member Posts: 3,561
    Originally posted by modjoe86

    Originally posted by sepher

    Originally posted by modjoe86

     

    So hastling pirates is successfully fighting piracy? Seems like a defeatist attitude to me.



     

    Why's that? In what other area of business and life would it make sense to do anything other than make thieves' lives as miserable as possible? 

    You lock your front door, arm security and all sorts of shit everytime you leave your home. If someone breaks in, you don't expect your alarm to grow legs and shoot lasers, nor do you even expect the cops to get there on time. Ultimately though, you pay for security to deter as many thieves as possible, and hassle a thief as much as possible if they ignore any protection you setup.

    Nothin' defeatist at all about protecting one's property.

    Meh, if I see an ADT sign in someone's front lawn, I don't burglarize that house. (Not that I burglarize houses) If I see a game I want to pirate with a no piracy sticker on the front, I still download and crack it.  To follow more with your analogy, since it seems to be agreed upon that anti-piracy measures don't stop thieves, and they can create a burden for the legal users: if ADT installed an alarm system in your house that did nothing to prevent thieves from robbing you, and instead punished you by randomly setting off the alarm in your house to make sure you were the legal tenant of that house, that would be like anti-piracy measures.

    Well, that analogy is a huge stretch, but you cam up with it asshole! 

     



     

    You proved part of my point. Thank you. You'd steal a game regardless of knowing its level of DRM protection. It's a non-issue and you steal just to steal.

    And no its not agreed upon that anti-piracy measures don't stop thieves. It doesn't stop them COMPLETELY and no one is deluded enough to believe any form of thievery can ever be stopped completely, but if no anti-piracy measures existed whatsoever, meaning right down to no CD Keys, would the level of piracy today be the same? Of course not, it'd be much more, so whatever the difference in piracy is between that imagined reality, and the level of piracy that exists now, anti-piracy measures are responsible for.

    What I disagree with is that DRM is a 'burden'. Because there's no other area in life do we feel burdened by businesses and people protecting their property. We aren't annoyed by our friends' locked windows and doors, walking through tag detectors in stores, obeying whatever line rules there are at the bank, or any other form of property protection that assumes we're either thieves or murderers and ends up inconveniencing us in order to deter the few bad apples.

    And..I don't know if you actually own ADT but my alarm goes off plenty when I or someone else do something I'm instructed NOT to do; like set off the motion detector in the middle of the night. I then have to prove I'm myself by giving a password to the alarm system.

    So I disagree on both points; that DRM is ineffective, and we as consumers should be anymore annoyed by protected media than protected physical products.

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993
    Originally posted by sepher



    Of course fighting piracy deters piracy.
    If you believe changing measures does absolutely nothing, then do you also believe the level of piracy would be exactly the same if there was no DRM, no CD keys, nothing except trust that a person would install games to one PC and not share it?
    Changing countermeasures against piracy accomplishes what its supposed to; continuing to keep pirates miserable in their routines from this to that notecard.
    Can DRM cause grief to legitimate customers? Sure I guess, but games release all the time and its only twice a year or so does a single Silent Hunter or Spore pop up for pirates to clamor about "DRM!!!!". The vast majority of installing games is always what it has been; install it, put in a CD key, run it. That dynamic hasn't changed.
    As for cracking your own software and that being illegal, yeah it is. But whether or not it was illegal wasn't my point. My point was that the existence of cracks and what value they add isn't something exclusive to thieves. They're just as available to people who purchase games as well. So there's still a logical mistep in "I hate DRM, I'm going to download a game illegally". That's just stealing a DRM protected game, and downloading a crack additionally.

     

    It does nothing of the sort. Cracks are included with most pirated games and if not, there are websites dedicated to cracks and patches that remove DRM protection.

    The only form of piracy it does prevent is that it doesn't allow me to buy a game and then give it to my friends. But that's not really piracy. No, the real pirates, the ones downloading Assassin's Creed 2, right as we speak are not deterred at all. As a matter of fact, pirates not only have access to free software but they don't have to deal with any of the issues legitimate players have to deal with. No Starforce to mess with your CD drivers, no launchers that demand constant internet connection, no "call home" feature... You don't even need to worry about CD-Keys, the keygens generate one for you on the fly.

    Borderlands has absolutely no copy protection and sold a lot of copies. Do you know why? Because it's a really great game. Maybe that's what developers should concentrate on--releasing better games. Titles like Borderlands, Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age: Origins, Grand Theft Auto 4, Modern Warfare 2 sold a lot of copies despite software piracy. Why? because they are all amazing games. Sub par titles don't sell well so the developers blame the pirates instead of blaming themselves for wasting millions of dollars on DRM features, which get cracked in a matter of hours by the way, instead of putting that money towards making a better product.

    DRM will not stop piracy. It will stop kids from sharing games with their friends but the real pirates will never be deterred.

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  • tvalentinetvalentine Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,216

    i'm with Sepher. Piracy is lame, and rather then blaming DRM on the companies i blame it on pirates. I've never had an issue with DRM, as long as i can play the game i'm happy.

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  • sephersepher Member Posts: 3,561
    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by sepher



    Of course fighting piracy deters piracy.
    If you believe changing measures does absolutely nothing, then do you also believe the level of piracy would be exactly the same if there was no DRM, no CD keys, nothing except trust that a person would install games to one PC and not share it?
    Changing countermeasures against piracy accomplishes what its supposed to; continuing to keep pirates miserable in their routines from this to that notecard.
    Can DRM cause grief to legitimate customers? Sure I guess, but games release all the time and its only twice a year or so does a single Silent Hunter or Spore pop up for pirates to clamor about "DRM!!!!". The vast majority of installing games is always what it has been; install it, put in a CD key, run it. That dynamic hasn't changed.
    As for cracking your own software and that being illegal, yeah it is. But whether or not it was illegal wasn't my point. My point was that the existence of cracks and what value they add isn't something exclusive to thieves. They're just as available to people who purchase games as well. So there's still a logical mistep in "I hate DRM, I'm going to download a game illegally". That's just stealing a DRM protected game, and downloading a crack additionally.

     

    It does nothing of the sort. Cracks are included with most pirated games and if not, there are websites dedicated to cracks and patches that remove DRM protection.

    The only form of piracy it does prevent is that it doesn't allow me to buy a game and then give it to my friends. But that's not really piracy. No, the real pirates, the ones downloading Assassin's Creed 2, right as we speak are not deterred at all. As a matter of fact, pirates not only have access to free software but they don't have to deal with any of the issues legitimate players have to deal with. No Starforce to mess with your CD drivers, no launchers that demand constant internet connection, no "call home" feature... You don't even need to worry about CD-Keys, the keygens generate one for you on the fly.

    Borderlands has absolutely no copy protection and sold a lot of copies. Do you know why? Because it's a really great game. Maybe that's what developers should concentrate on--releasing better games. Titles like Borderlands, Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age: Origins, Grand Theft Auto 4, Modern Warfare 2 sold a lot of copies despite software piracy. Why? because they are all amazing games. Sub par titles don't sell well so the developers blame the pirates instead of blaming themselves for wasting millions of dollars on DRM features, which get cracked in a matter of hours by the way, instead of putting that money towards making a better product.

    DRM will not stop piracy. It will stop kids from sharing games with their friends but the real pirates will never be deterred.



     

    DRM deters piracy the same way any other deterents lessen other things; such as cops on a street or security cameras in any store. Yes, there's still going to be crime and burgularies, but no one just stops making protective measures obvious since problems would be much worse. Try it out yourself; your windows aren't going to stop a determined burgular, but for kicks tomorrow leave all of them up and your doors wide open. If you believe your chance to get shit stolen from you isn't increased, then that's some zany logic, and that's the exact same logic you're applying to DRM by insinuating it shouldn't exist because you believe it doesn't 'work'.

    So yes of course DRM and other anti-piracy measures work. The goal isn't to completely stop all piracy, because there's no 100% absolutely stopping anything.

    And why can't you buy a game and give it to your friends? There's sharing one copy and there's duplicating a copy. If you were trying the latter, then of course not.

    As for Assassin Creed 2 being leaked; so what? DRM has jack to do with that. Stealing is legitimized now because of street dates being broken and illegal copies reaching the internet first? If so then start raiding the warehouses of Best Buy, always plenty of shit there that street dates haven't arrived for. 'course if you were a reasonable consumer, you wouldn't care. It's available for purchase when its available for purchase.

    No Starforce to mess up your CD Drive? Does every game have Starforce, and how widespread was any issue with Starforce? Is popping a CD that you bought into a drive and installing, really that much more of a hassle than doing all kinds of emulation shit on your virtual CD Drive, afterwhich installing no-cd cracks, not being able to update until you have no cracks?

    Is reading a CD Key out of a keygen; one that won't allow you to play online or receive updates, really that much more convenient than reading a key off of a case, which will allow you to go online and update?

    Get real. You always jump through more hoops, you're always more inhibited, when you actually pirate games. You cling to the 1 or 2 stories that release a year of -one- problematic, isolated incident with DRM and attempt to use that as some self-righteous justification to be a thief.

    I challenge you, what was the last game you bought that gave you a problematic experience with DRM? Extra points if its one I can't Google up in 5 seconds and find an isolated and resolved incident about. 'less you can do that,

    As for Borderlands having no copy protection and selling a lot of copies, maybe it did, but what's the point of bringing it up only to bring up other games that had copy protection and sold a lot more? It's also worth noting that all four games you mentioned, had console equivalents and their console versions sold a -lot- more despite PC being the largest gaming platform by far. So all you pointed out was that the games with copy protection sold more than the lone game without, and that all of them sold best on a medium where piracy nigh-exists.

    Lastly, deter doesn't equate to stopping. Deterring is the aim. Completely stopping requires an act of God. It's worth the money to continue to evolve from the original idea of having CD Keys, and take property protection as far as it needs to and can go to keep the PC gaming industry afloat in spite of the thieves.

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993
    Originally posted by sepher


    DRM deters piracy the same way any other deterents lessen other things; such as cops on a street or security cameras in any store. Yes, there's still going to be crime and burgularies, but no one just stops making protective measures obvious since problems would be much worse. Try it out yourself; your windows aren't going to stop a determined burgular, but for kicks tomorrow leave all of them up and your doors wide open. If you believe your chance to get shit stolen from you isn't increased, then that's some zany logic, and that's the exact same logic you're applying to DRM by insinuating it shouldn't exist because you believe it doesn't 'work'.
    So yes of course DRM and other anti-piracy measures work. The goal isn't to completely stop all piracy, because there's no 100% absolutely stopping anything.
    And why can't you buy a game and give it to your friends? There's sharing one copy and there's duplicating a copy. If you were trying the latter, then of course not.
    As for Assassin Creed 2 being leaked; so what? DRM has jack to do with that. Stealing is legitimized now because of street dates being broken and illegal copies reaching the internet first? If so then start raiding the warehouses of Best Buy, always plenty of shit there that street dates haven't arrived for. 'course if you were a reasonable consumer, you wouldn't care. It's available for purchase when its available for purchase.
    No Starforce to mess up your CD Drive? Does every game have Starforce, and how widespread was any issue with Starforce? Is popping a CD that you bought into a drive and installing, really that much more of a hassle than doing all kinds of emulation shit on your virtual CD Drive, afterwhich installing no-cd cracks, not being able to update until you have no cracks?
    Is reading a CD Key out of a keygen; one that won't allow you to play online or receive updates, really that much more convenient than reading a key off of a case, which will allow you to go online and update?
    Get real. You always jump through more hoops, you're always more inhibited, when you actually pirate games. You cling to the 1 or 2 stories that release a year of -one- problematic, isolated incident with DRM and attempt to use that as some self-righteous justification to be a thief.
    I challenge you, what was the last game you bought that gave you a problematic experience with DRM? Extra points if its one I can't Google up in 5 seconds and find an isolated and resolved incident about. 'less you can do that,
    As for Borderlands having no copy protection and selling a lot of copies, maybe it did, but what's the point of bringing it up only to bring up other games that had copy protection and sold a lot more? It's also worth noting that all four games you mentioned, had console equivalents and their console versions sold a -lot- more despite PC being the largest gaming platform by far. So all you pointed out was that the games with copy protection sold more than the lone game without, and that all of them sold best on a medium where piracy nigh-exists.
    Lastly, deter doesn't equate to stopping. Deterring is the aim. Completely stopping requires an act of God. It's worth the money to continue to evolve from the original idea of having CD Keys, and take property protection as far as it needs to and can go to keep the PC gaming industry afloat in spite of the thieves.

    What you don't understand is that you're not inhibited when you pirate games. Not in the least. There is a reason why I use cracks with games that have DRM. DRM actually inhibits me more! I apply a crack and I don't have to worry about my internet going down, or some DRM root kit messing with my system drivers. I enjoy the game.

    Now take GTA4, a game which I didn't use a crack with. I have to log in twice just to play a god damn single player game!

    Your argument is pointless. You assume that DRM measures stop piracy, when I know for a fact that they don't. Go to any torrent site and check the amount of seeders and leechers on any good game. The numbers are in the thousands and that's just one tracker. DRM only stops people from sharing their game with their friends. It does not stop people who download the games.

    Using your security camera example, DRM deters pirates the same way a turned off security camera deters thieves from robbing a store. Because guess what? The DRM (security camera) is already turned off when you pirate a game. So how exactly can it deter anyone?

    Lastly, I believe that we have a communication problem. I'm not excusing piracy. Please stop bringing it up and please stop twisting my words around to support your argument. I AM NOT EXCUSING SOFTWARE PIRACY! The reason I brought up Assassin's Creed 2 was not because it was leaked earlier than the release date. I brought it up because Ubisoft's "unstoppable" DRM feature had absolutely no deterrent on pirates.

    Also, please stop nitpicking my arguments. You know perfectly well that when I mentioned Starforce, I was listing different types of DRM used by developers.

    Oh as far as naming a game and you finding an resolution for it on Google, the whole point is that I shouldn't need to Google and solutions to problems caused by DRM because pirates don't!

    That is my whole point. I, as a legitimate customer, am being inconvenienced and the thieves aren't!

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