Ya know, I am mostly a PC gamer, so I am prolly biased. For years and years we hear this talk that consoles are going to crush the PC. Why exactly I never really found logical. Either way, my insights tell me rather the other way around. First, what we see is that atm the two big consoles, PS and XBox are kinda stuck. Sales are mediocre and none of it really has made THE huge market control once expected. Wii, while funny, remains more a niche market for the very casual gamer. And most important: what we see is that with every new generation consoles become more like a PC! So it is more like consoles, while still existing, become assimilated to PCs and only remain to be consoles by name at some point in the future. Right now consoles have more and more of the problems of the PC, but mostly NONE of the strenghts. Recent example caused much suffering to PS3 gamers these past days and to this very day. You know, when I bought by first PS1 I thought, COOL, finally no installing, no waiting for patches (since no internet!), a game you just buy and off to the fun you go. Not so today? With harddiscs, installation and internet came the same things which plague PC for years. This evening I finally wanted to continue by "Marvel Ultimate Alliance" and when started it said "re-installing trophies", stuck at 10%. Forever. Well, WTF I thought, and saw, hey my date is resent to year 2000. THEN I realized my internet connection of PS3 was goners, and after much research I saw PS3 users ALL of the world have issues like this since a week ago Sony PSN began some maintenance. Maintenance your ASS! And as a result of their network going haywire the gamers even of SINGLE PLAYER gamers can't play their games. End of story. Ya know I passionately, vividly HATE this damn trend of games, be it PC or console, to every time connect to the damn internet. Bioware's games, my PC version of Batman Arkham Asylum, the list gets longer every year and FUCK IT I just wanted to play some damn single player game, have my own game world and for ONCE I DONT want to care what anybody else in the WWW is doing! But noooo, nothing without internet today. Gone are the days where console games were great and you just entered the disc and off to fun.
I am just pissed about all this. Why can't they just save MY trophies on MY console and I dont care rats ass what trophies others have, as much as I hate all those new online verifications for single player games. Or the damn endless stream of mini DLC. Get the new kick ass companion HERE, or the new super trendy costume THERE. I just want my single player games single, no internet, no updates, no online community coordination as in the good olde days of modems. When I want to play my single player games, I want to stay AWAY from all the internet this internet that. But they don't let me! What this has to do with consoles VS PC? Well, consoles are getting the same negatives as PC, but so far NONE of the advantages, like having a machine which can do your work or text or lets you draw or whatever else you hobbies may be. Not to forget that a PC game is €40 for 50 hours while a PS3/XboX360 game is €70 for 12 hours of fun. Which is not REALLY kid/teen friendly for their main target group either. So in my book consoles are a failed concept and will in the long term half vanish, half become a PC.
Your arguments are pretty poor. First of all console sales are great, and more important, console game sales are great. Console games continue to sell more copies than PC games.
While consoles do get features that are also available on the PC, the goal is not to become a PC. The goal is to become an entertainment center. Thats why consoles now have radio, internet and movie streaming. They also gained benefits like online play and DLC, so I'm not sure why you claim they have received none of the benefits PC gaming used to have.
While it may seem great to not have to instal games, it actually was a huge block in terms of game development. Long loading times and a limit on content was a result of this. You install games on a hard drive for a reason. I personally rather install a game once and then have a better experience through out the entire game.
About your trophies issue, Cmon, really? This has only happened once and its already been fixed.
Regarding the profitability of the PC platform for game developers:
Success for a game company is defined by the number of games sold (and/or current subscriptions held). Anything that detracts from this number is considered bad and should be avoided. This includes, but is not limited to:
Things which make your game unappealing (bad press, lack of marketing, bad track record)
Things which punish your customers (hellish DRM, buggy launches, disappointing gameplay)
Things which keep players from buying the game (direct competitors, unsupported platforms, easy piracy)
What we are dealing with currently is a battle being waged between bullets 2 and 3. To prevent piracy, developers add DRM. DRM, in turn, punishes the customer. Without installing DRM, the player experience is improved (read: Not Affected), but piracy becomes rampant. Either way, the company is losing potential buyers, and it just boils down to which way makes more money.
The solution to this conundrum, as it would appear in a utopian world, would be to have such perfect DRM that no customer is able to pirate the game instead of buying it (theoretically, piracy is no harm if the pirates would not have paid for the game anyway, but that is beside the point). At the same time, however, this DRM would be so quiet and unobtrusive that it would not affect the player experience in any way, negative, neutral, or otherwise. I don't believe anything like this exists currently, but we have seen a few trends that are (sort of) moving in the right direction:
The first and possibly least-effective method of DRM is what we see coming from EA lately. Limitations like the need to be online at all times to play a single-player game are crushing to player loyalty, but effectively eliminate piracy. Right? Oh, well, unless they manage to hack the little part of the game that checks to make sure it's still valid! This tact results in maximum alienation of the player-base, while still only providing a temporary (e.g. 1-3 week) buffer against piracy. It's shameful, honestly.
The second method of DRM I would like to point to is Digital Distribution, a la Steam. While Steam certainly integrates a great deal of DRM, that is not the sole purpose of the interface, as it also serves as a social networking platform, a patching service, and an online storefront. As far as customer alienation goes, I have heard mixed responses. Some people can't stand Steam, because it feels so controlling and limiting. Other people, particularly the Source Engine crowd, don't have a problem. I will note that the people I hear complaining about Steam's constrictions are the same people who brag to me about how they "Got the hacked copy of SC2" or "Only pay for a game after I decide I like it". In terms of effectiveness, Steam's DRM is at least as effective as EA's standard, and people who crack the games on Steam often do so to the retail version, rather than touching Steam at all. By that logic, Steam's biggest weakness is that it is not the exclusive medium for most sales.
The third method is sneaky enough that most people don't really think of it as DRM. Generally, you can identify a game with this flavor of DRM by three simple letters: MMO. Every time you log in to play, you are connecting to their server, "calling home" so to speak. This is also very much like EA's method of DRM, except it is disguised by the fact that you MUST connect to the game servers anyway, just to access the MMO content. It is, essentially, the perfect blend. The DRM is absolute; nobody can access game content on the server without a valid login, and that login process is a widely accepted and expected function in MMO games. It provides near-perfect DRM, without harming the user experience.
Yep, consoles are very popular. Still, it seems to some degree to depend on how much people know about computers. If you have some knowledge about computers, why get a console? You know how to fix any possible problems, you have a larger selection of games from, and you have more possibilities, like modding and stuff. If new generations of games are released, you can piece by piece upgrade your computer, or simply play the newer games on a lower detail level. If I'd have a console, there is no choice of playing next generation games. I'm simply forced to buy a new console.
Console sacrifice possibilities for user-friendlyness. It's like the question what wife you want: a dumb girl who does everything for you without complaining, but who is else in all her ways very limited. Or maybe the woman who sometimes talks back and has an opinion on her own, with whom life sometimes might be a bit more difficult, but more rewarding as well.
The Xbox 360 is like a PC for poor people that you can't upgrade with a better graphics card or more memory.
And to those devs that can't be bothered with improving the graphics for the PC version: Your gaming studios are on my blacklist and I will never buy a single game from you so you can all go to hell.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
The Xbox 360 is like a PC for poor people that you can't upgrade with a better graphics card or more memory. And to those devs that can't be bothered with improving the graphics for the PC version: Your gaming studios are on my blacklist and I will never buy a single game from you so you can all go to hell.
Oh crap.. I thought this was the thread for intelligent debate.
Games will generally be developed for the most profitable platform available.
Right now, that isn't the PC.
Well put and true, for now it seems the trend is in the mobile appliances.
With Wifi-Max and such wireless features we shall end with a mobile device remotely connected to our HDTV.
Originally posted by CymTyr
I doubt cloud computing will totally take over the PC. People already are in an uproar over the fact that nowadays we basically buy a "license" for PC games instead of the game itself. Cloud computing = licensing period.
Console pirating is a HUGE issue, which is why the console makers are doing everything in their power to force your console to be connected to the internet.
Totally not really, but it seems the trend is to move all applications to "web browser" Java tried to do that some years ago.
Piracy is worse on PC and that's the point as a developer you choose the least of the worst.
We might not like it but the publishers want their share of the resale business, be it even $1 per game only.
With RMT, standardized client (web browser), internet connectivity spread mostly anywhere needed we are seeing the shadows of a new business model.
Originally posted by Mangobyte
Generally, you can identify a game with this flavor of DRM by three simple letters: MMO.
Made me think about SWTOR = KOTOR with monthly fees, smart move.
Originally posted by Mellow44
The Xbox 360 is like a PC for poor people that you can't upgrade with a better graphics card or more memory. And to those devs that can't be bothered with improving the graphics for the PC version: Your gaming studios are on my blacklist and I will never buy a single game from you so you can all go to hell.
Do you have any clue at how much it costs to make 2 sets of graphics for a game? Much more than the income you'd from your "enhanced version" sales.
And honestly I'm happy most people rather have console than PC, it's time to make things simpler. The guy who invented PHP once told when programming will be as easy as using a phone I'll be happy. Guess what, he's happy now as he's clueless of how to use those over complicated wired office phones...
Finally there's also a very interesting trend emerging from data gathering in games, there's very few players actually finishing any games at all. So while most reviewer insist on arguing about how to many games are too short, over 60% of the installed and surveyed games are abandoned after about 3 hours of game play. The score of players actually finishing any game at all is astonishing low as is the % of hardcore players among the customers. The boss you love? Makes over 70% leave the game for good after 5+ tries.
Yep, consoles are very popular. Still, it seems to some degree to depend on how much people know about computers. If you have some knowledge about computers, why get a console? You know how to fix any possible problems, you have a larger selection of games from, and you have more possibilities, like modding and stuff. If new generations of games are released, you can piece by piece upgrade your computer, or simply play the newer games on a lower detail level. If I'd have a console, there is no choice of playing next generation games. I'm simply forced to buy a new console. Console sacrifice possibilities for user-friendlyness. It's like the question what wife you want: a dumb girl who does everything for you without complaining, but who is else in all her ways very limited. Or maybe the woman who sometimes talks back and has an opinion on her own, with whom life sometimes might be a bit more difficult, but more rewarding as well.
Because it takes time and it is NO FUN to fix problems. I buy a game to PLAY, not to fix IT issues. Just go read up on say video card problem with Prototype. I don't want to experimenting with turning off "antialiasing" all day .. i want to pop in a disc and play.
And you must be JOKING to say there are a larger selection of games for the PC. For MMOs, yes .. but almost anything else .. NOPE. Just go to gamestop and take a look at the 360 section & the PC section. I don't MOD and most user generated content is crapped. There are way more than enough professionally produced content to even have the time to look at stuff like mods.
Yep, consoles are very popular. Still, it seems to some degree to depend on how much people know about computers. If you have some knowledge about computers, why get a console? You know how to fix any possible problems, you have a larger selection of games from, and you have more possibilities, like modding and stuff. If new generations of games are released, you can piece by piece upgrade your computer, or simply play the newer games on a lower detail level. If I'd have a console, there is no choice of playing next generation games. I'm simply forced to buy a new console. Console sacrifice possibilities for user-friendlyness. It's like the question what wife you want: a dumb girl who does everything for you without complaining, but who is else in all her ways very limited. Or maybe the woman who sometimes talks back and has an opinion on her own, with whom life sometimes might be a bit more difficult, but more rewarding as well.
Because it takes time and it is NO FUN to fix problems. I buy a game to PLAY, not to fix IT issues. Just go read up on say video card problem with Prototype. I don't want to experimenting with turning off "antialiasing" all day .. i want to pop in a disc and play.
And you must be JOKING to say there are a larger selection of games for the PC. For MMOs, yes .. but almost anything else .. NOPE. Just go to gamestop and take a look at the 360 section & the PC section. I don't MOD and most user generated content is crapped. There are way more than enough professionally produced content to even have the time to look at stuff like mods.
I think the amount of PC games causing problems are quite a minority. Not to mention that you learn stuff while fixing any problem, and as said: the amount of possibilities you sacrifice when you play on a console instead of a PC is for me personally not worth any bugs that the PC might have. Not to mention that quite some consoles are causing problems too. If they do, you have no way to fix it, but hope that you have a guarantee and get a replacement. On a PC you can fix the stuff yourself (or do the guarantee thing).
About the selection: I talk about games that are available in general. Compare the amount of games available for the PC to that of a single console type, and I'm 100% sure there are more for the PC.
About the user created content? Sure, some of it is crap. But people create so much stuff, that there are still so many incredible mods left, which a console gamer will never experience. So why should anyone care if some of the user created content is crap? Play the good stuff, and it's free.
If you say that mods ain't worth checking out, because there are enough finished games out there, then that's your personal opinion, which I don't share. It's like saying "I will only watch Hollywood movies, because everything else is crap". Yes, you can do that, but you will miss a lot.
I'm gonna try and draw another logical path here. I've got a buddy who has a media center PC hooked up to his big ol' LCD TV, right alongside his Xbox360 and PS3. It is plugged into the same output as his consoles, and it has a wireless mouse and keyboard for control. When he uses this computer for gaming, it is essentially functioning the same as a console. The peripherals are different, but peripherals are becoming flexible enough between platforms that this doesn't really matter. From there, it boils down to a single simple question:
Do you want to use an open platform?
Everything else is sort of moot. New consoles will be released, with newer and better hardware. Meanwhile newer PC components will be released, to upgrade from old hardware. All the debates about "better graphics" and "more options" become pointless, because they are all dictated by market whims, which have been doing their thing since the beginning of time anyway.
Open-platform is going to have it's own sets of pros and cons, which mostly boil down to "More powerful, but harder to use."
Closed-platform, on the other hand, is "Better feeling, but less configurable."
(I recognize the above list is a gross oversimplification, but I hope you can bear with me)
This isn't a new question, either, and I'm sure quite a few of you guys are recognizing this. Open Platform vs. Closed Platform has been a hot topic since the initial development of PCs, and has been made famous by a few catchy adverts and hordes of zealous "fanboys" on every side.
My personal stance on this has been sort of "meh". I prefer open-platform, so I run a PC, but I love the gadgets and support that Apple offers through its closed-platform offerings. When it comes right down to it, attacking someone because they prefer closed-platform or open-platform is kind of ridiculous.
What is worth noting, though, is that closed platforms are significantly more lucrative for developers, if they have a great enough market share. This means that the games available on PCs are going decrease, relative to the number available on consoles, until something can be done to make PC games more lucrative (enter the MMO). For more on this particular point, scroll up a bit and check my previous post.
I like my PS3. The main reason I bought a PS3 is for sports games, they're just better on a big screen TV. Relaxing on a nice recliner, all while playing against friends who are also on nice sofas/reclinders. Everyone is comfortable, happy, and having fun.
On a side note: PC games are better in most cases, but if a game comes out for both I usually get the PS3 version just because I would rather play it on a 42" TV vs a 24" monitor plus I get to be more comfortable. SItting at a computer desk all day while I'm at work and then coming home to play a MMORPG on my PC bothers me for some reason. I like to mix it up if I can.
Serious death penalties makes every close call an adrenaline rush, and every minor achievement a major victory. This alternative rule-set should be in all MMORPGs.
Most PC users and gamers do not mess with their computers in any way, shape, or form. They use it and get it serviced exactly as they would a console. The don't and won't ever upgrade their own computers, and will probably use it for up to eight or more years before finally replacing it.
That's part of why there's such a push on consoles. Because they way it's used caters much more successfully to the way the average consumer uses it. The active PC gamer that actually upgrades his computer on any form of an interval (don't think I've had a computer longer than a year >_>) is a minority. Be it a vocal one, but still a minority.
It is going to stay this way for a long time. We are needed as a group, because we are the early adopters in a sense. We are lovingly used with new hardware and get some interesting games and programs every so often as a result, but we are by no means a primary target for most companies.
[Mod Edit]
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I'm a gamer, not a geek. If I could get a console that did everything I use my PC for, I wouldn't even think twice. The PS3's ticked most of the boxes, I'm just waiting for: 1. Keyboard and Mouse support as standard. Especially on shooters.
2. MMO's to make the shift to console. These two things happen, I'll happily toss my PC out of the window.
Add player made mods, UI addons and configurable hotkeys and we're set.
A friend of mine, actually a Unix AIX engineer already threw out his PC to the rubbish bin for games. He'd 1000% rather play in the sofa only having to eventually push the CD in the box than %@#$ mess with PC, and he does know quite more about IT than most nerds around.
Originally posted by Mellow44 The Xbox 360 is like a PC for poor people that you can't upgrade with a better graphics card or more memory.
Well, no. The original XBox largely fit that description, being basically PC hardware running a Windows-based OS, marketed as a gaming appliance. The 360 doesn't even have an Intel processor.
The Xbox 360 is like a PC for poor people that you can't upgrade with a better graphics card or more memory.
Well, no. The original XBox largely fit that description, being basically PC hardware running a Windows-based OS, marketed as a gaming appliance. The 360 doesn't even have an Intel processor.
Maybe it's a Macintosh?
No?
It's a PC.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
The Xbox 360 is like a PC for poor people that you can't upgrade with a better graphics card or more memory.
Well, no. The original XBox largely fit that description, being basically PC hardware running a Windows-based OS, marketed as a gaming appliance. The 360 doesn't even have an Intel processor.
Maybe it's a Macintosh?
No?
It's a PC.
That is used and designed as a console...
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
The Xbox 360 is like a PC for poor people that you can't upgrade with a better graphics card or more memory.
Well, no. The original XBox largely fit that description, being basically PC hardware running a Windows-based OS, marketed as a gaming appliance. The 360 doesn't even have an Intel processor.
Maybe it's a Macintosh?
No?
It's a PC.
That is used and designed as a console...
Exactly!
The PlayStation 3 is however something totally unique and too hard for the lazy devs to make games for or so they say.
Because they have to re-learn a lot of things when making games for the PlayStation 3 and as we all know learning new things are bad, bad, bad.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Problem with the PS3 is it's system architecture is different enough, due to the cell processor mainly, that to make any game run particularly well on it, you have to develop the engine to work specifically with the system.
That is rather unlike how most systems work, primarily because all the others aren't as reliant on their core processor to carry the bulk of their game along with it. Kind of why we have such powerful graphics cards.
Now that ain't an absolute, because we've also had plenty of work done on our core processors, and they remain one of if not the most important piece of hardware within our machines, but it's function has always been balanced with all the other hardware therein. The PS3 did away with that, instead putting the majority of the system's function into that part of the hardware that it becomes imbalanced and you lose a lot of potential when trying to build a game in the traditional fashion.
It really does require people to rebuild the engine their game runs on in order to get the most out of it, and that's where it become a matter of whether or not they'll spend the time, money, and effort to do so.
Unless it's a console exclusive, the return from that isn't enough to make any one care.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Exactly! The PlayStation 3 is however something totally unique and too hard for the lazy devs to make games for or so they say. Because they have to re-learn a lot of things when making games for the PlayStation 3 and as we all know learning new things are bad, bad, bad.
Sony development tools are years away from modern ones. As simple as that.
I'm a gamer, not a geek. If I could get a console that did everything I use my PC for, I wouldn't even think twice. The PS3's ticked most of the boxes, I'm just waiting for: 1. Keyboard and Mouse support as standard. Especially on shooters.
2. MMO's to make the shift to console. These two things happen, I'll happily toss my PC out of the window.
I'm a gamer, not a geek. If I could get a console that did everything I use my PC for, I wouldn't even think twice. The PS3's ticked most of the boxes, I'm just waiting for: 1. Keyboard and Mouse support as standard. Especially on shooters.
2. MMO's to make the shift to console. These two things happen, I'll happily toss my PC out of the window.
And this is different from a PC how exactly?
The box is shaped differently?
Pop in a disc & play. No installation. No configuration for different hardware. Support big screen HDTV (not all PCs have HDMI .. certainly not standard) so you can play on a couch.
Every game works on every machine 100% of the time. None of this "need newest graphics driver" shit or "turn off anti-alias" shit.
This topic is and always will be, rediculous. The "game" is more important. Today, more games are coming out on pc and console alike. The companies decide which platform they will release to, not the game itself.
They "aren't even competing. This makes me upset because there really is no point in saying one will crush the other. That's like saying one day taking a shower will crush taking a bath. See how you probably stopped reading at that point. I have a console and PC and i buy my games based on how easily they will be played on either platform.
Streetfighter 4: Xbox 360
Dragon Age Origins: PC
Notice how both games can be played on both platforms. Argument for argument's sake? Don't bother.
Also: Why do you give a shit? Are you happy with what you have? Yes... then great. No? Then go get what you want. I hope this thread dies with my post because it feels like a troll to begin with.
I agree about the handheld comment; which is why I made the statement "Remove the handheld sales and you'll see much more even numbers" in an earlier post =P
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Can't find more detailed info. However, if you go to vgchartz.com ... Wii, PS3 + 360 units sales is roughly 70% of the US market in units with the only handheld being PSP + DS. Since console games are general MORE expensive than portable games, we can safely assume the console software market is >70%.
70% of $10.5B = $7.35B
Still ~14 times bigger than the PC games market.
BTW, steam & d2drive are TRACKED on NPD (and i think steam alone is 70% of the download market) starting mid-2009.
That is only part of the games market. You have to include the subscriptions and item malls sales for MMORPGs. I think you will see a very different picture then.
Both have their strengths. Box sales for consoles, subscriptions and virtual items sales for PC. Both are there to stay for the near future.
This topic is and always will be, rediculous. The "game" is more important. Today, more games are coming out on pc and console alike. The companies decide which platform they will release to, not the game itself. They "aren't even competing. This makes me upset because there really is no point in saying one will crush the other. That's like saying one day taking a shower will crush taking a bath. See how you probably stopped reading at that point. I have a console and PC and i buy my games based on how easily they will be played on either platform. Streetfighter 4: Xbox 360 Dragon Age Origins: PC Notice how both games can be played on both platforms. Argument for argument's sake? Don't bother. Also: Why do you give a shit? Are you happy with what you have? Yes... then great. No? Then go get what you want. I hope this thread dies with my post because it feels like a troll to begin with.
Reposting what i just... posted in hopes that the thread dies. A debate for debate's sake annoys the hell out of me. This has been ran into the ground. We all lose, we all win.
This topic is and always will be, rediculous. The "game" is more important. Today, more games are coming out on pc and console alike. The companies decide which platform they will release to, not the game itself. They "aren't even competing. This makes me upset because there really is no point in saying one will crush the other. That's like saying one day taking a shower will crush taking a bath. See how you probably stopped reading at that point. I have a console and PC and i buy my games based on how easily they will be played on either platform. Streetfighter 4: Xbox 360 Dragon Age Origins: PC Notice how both games can be played on both platforms. Argument for argument's sake? Don't bother. Also: Why do you give a shit? Are you happy with what you have? Yes... then great. No? Then go get what you want. I hope this thread dies with my post because it feels like a troll to begin with.
Reposting what i just... posted in hopes that the thread dies. A debate for debate's sake annoys the hell out of me. This has been ran into the ground. We all lose, we all win.
So you bump the thread that annoys you, in the hope to let it die? LOL
Comments
Your arguments are pretty poor. First of all console sales are great, and more important, console game sales are great. Console games continue to sell more copies than PC games.
While consoles do get features that are also available on the PC, the goal is not to become a PC. The goal is to become an entertainment center. Thats why consoles now have radio, internet and movie streaming. They also gained benefits like online play and DLC, so I'm not sure why you claim they have received none of the benefits PC gaming used to have.
While it may seem great to not have to instal games, it actually was a huge block in terms of game development. Long loading times and a limit on content was a result of this. You install games on a hard drive for a reason. I personally rather install a game once and then have a better experience through out the entire game.
About your trophies issue, Cmon, really? This has only happened once and its already been fixed.
Regarding the profitability of the PC platform for game developers:
Success for a game company is defined by the number of games sold (and/or current subscriptions held). Anything that detracts from this number is considered bad and should be avoided. This includes, but is not limited to:
What we are dealing with currently is a battle being waged between bullets 2 and 3. To prevent piracy, developers add DRM. DRM, in turn, punishes the customer. Without installing DRM, the player experience is improved (read: Not Affected), but piracy becomes rampant. Either way, the company is losing potential buyers, and it just boils down to which way makes more money.
The solution to this conundrum, as it would appear in a utopian world, would be to have such perfect DRM that no customer is able to pirate the game instead of buying it (theoretically, piracy is no harm if the pirates would not have paid for the game anyway, but that is beside the point). At the same time, however, this DRM would be so quiet and unobtrusive that it would not affect the player experience in any way, negative, neutral, or otherwise. I don't believe anything like this exists currently, but we have seen a few trends that are (sort of) moving in the right direction:
Taste the rainbow
Yep, consoles are very popular. Still, it seems to some degree to depend on how much people know about computers. If you have some knowledge about computers, why get a console? You know how to fix any possible problems, you have a larger selection of games from, and you have more possibilities, like modding and stuff. If new generations of games are released, you can piece by piece upgrade your computer, or simply play the newer games on a lower detail level. If I'd have a console, there is no choice of playing next generation games. I'm simply forced to buy a new console.
Console sacrifice possibilities for user-friendlyness. It's like the question what wife you want: a dumb girl who does everything for you without complaining, but who is else in all her ways very limited. Or maybe the woman who sometimes talks back and has an opinion on her own, with whom life sometimes might be a bit more difficult, but more rewarding as well.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
The Xbox 360 is like a PC for poor people that you can't upgrade with a better graphics card or more memory.
And to those devs that can't be bothered with improving the graphics for the PC version: Your gaming studios are on my blacklist and I will never buy a single game from you so you can all go to hell.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Oh crap.. I thought this was the thread for intelligent debate.
Gameplay > graphics. Moving swiftly on...
Well put and true, for now it seems the trend is in the mobile appliances.
With Wifi-Max and such wireless features we shall end with a mobile device remotely connected to our HDTV.
Totally not really, but it seems the trend is to move all applications to "web browser" Java tried to do that some years ago.Piracy is worse on PC and that's the point as a developer you choose the least of the worst.
We might not like it but the publishers want their share of the resale business, be it even $1 per game only.
With RMT, standardized client (web browser), internet connectivity spread mostly anywhere needed we are seeing the shadows of a new business model.
Made me think about SWTOR = KOTOR with monthly fees, smart move.Do you have any clue at how much it costs to make 2 sets of graphics for a game? Much more than the income you'd from your "enhanced version" sales.
And honestly I'm happy most people rather have console than PC, it's time to make things simpler. The guy who invented PHP once told when programming will be as easy as using a phone I'll be happy. Guess what, he's happy now as he's clueless of how to use those over complicated wired office phones...
Finally there's also a very interesting trend emerging from data gathering in games, there's very few players actually finishing any games at all. So while most reviewer insist on arguing about how to many games are too short, over 60% of the installed and surveyed games are abandoned after about 3 hours of game play. The score of players actually finishing any game at all is astonishing low as is the % of hardcore players among the customers. The boss you love? Makes over 70% leave the game for good after 5+ tries.
Because it takes time and it is NO FUN to fix problems. I buy a game to PLAY, not to fix IT issues. Just go read up on say video card problem with Prototype. I don't want to experimenting with turning off "antialiasing" all day .. i want to pop in a disc and play.
And you must be JOKING to say there are a larger selection of games for the PC. For MMOs, yes .. but almost anything else .. NOPE. Just go to gamestop and take a look at the 360 section & the PC section. I don't MOD and most user generated content is crapped. There are way more than enough professionally produced content to even have the time to look at stuff like mods.
Because it takes time and it is NO FUN to fix problems. I buy a game to PLAY, not to fix IT issues. Just go read up on say video card problem with Prototype. I don't want to experimenting with turning off "antialiasing" all day .. i want to pop in a disc and play.
And you must be JOKING to say there are a larger selection of games for the PC. For MMOs, yes .. but almost anything else .. NOPE. Just go to gamestop and take a look at the 360 section & the PC section. I don't MOD and most user generated content is crapped. There are way more than enough professionally produced content to even have the time to look at stuff like mods.
I think the amount of PC games causing problems are quite a minority. Not to mention that you learn stuff while fixing any problem, and as said: the amount of possibilities you sacrifice when you play on a console instead of a PC is for me personally not worth any bugs that the PC might have. Not to mention that quite some consoles are causing problems too. If they do, you have no way to fix it, but hope that you have a guarantee and get a replacement. On a PC you can fix the stuff yourself (or do the guarantee thing).
About the selection: I talk about games that are available in general. Compare the amount of games available for the PC to that of a single console type, and I'm 100% sure there are more for the PC.
About the user created content? Sure, some of it is crap. But people create so much stuff, that there are still so many incredible mods left, which a console gamer will never experience. So why should anyone care if some of the user created content is crap? Play the good stuff, and it's free.
If you say that mods ain't worth checking out, because there are enough finished games out there, then that's your personal opinion, which I don't share. It's like saying "I will only watch Hollywood movies, because everything else is crap". Yes, you can do that, but you will miss a lot.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Okay,
I'm gonna try and draw another logical path here. I've got a buddy who has a media center PC hooked up to his big ol' LCD TV, right alongside his Xbox360 and PS3. It is plugged into the same output as his consoles, and it has a wireless mouse and keyboard for control. When he uses this computer for gaming, it is essentially functioning the same as a console. The peripherals are different, but peripherals are becoming flexible enough between platforms that this doesn't really matter. From there, it boils down to a single simple question:
Do you want to use an open platform?
Everything else is sort of moot. New consoles will be released, with newer and better hardware. Meanwhile newer PC components will be released, to upgrade from old hardware. All the debates about "better graphics" and "more options" become pointless, because they are all dictated by market whims, which have been doing their thing since the beginning of time anyway.
Open-platform is going to have it's own sets of pros and cons, which mostly boil down to "More powerful, but harder to use."
Closed-platform, on the other hand, is "Better feeling, but less configurable."
(I recognize the above list is a gross oversimplification, but I hope you can bear with me)
This isn't a new question, either, and I'm sure quite a few of you guys are recognizing this. Open Platform vs. Closed Platform has been a hot topic since the initial development of PCs, and has been made famous by a few catchy adverts and hordes of zealous "fanboys" on every side.
My personal stance on this has been sort of "meh". I prefer open-platform, so I run a PC, but I love the gadgets and support that Apple offers through its closed-platform offerings. When it comes right down to it, attacking someone because they prefer closed-platform or open-platform is kind of ridiculous.
What is worth noting, though, is that closed platforms are significantly more lucrative for developers, if they have a great enough market share. This means that the games available on PCs are going decrease, relative to the number available on consoles, until something can be done to make PC games more lucrative (enter the MMO). For more on this particular point, scroll up a bit and check my previous post.
Taste the rainbow
I like my PS3. The main reason I bought a PS3 is for sports games, they're just better on a big screen TV. Relaxing on a nice recliner, all while playing against friends who are also on nice sofas/reclinders. Everyone is comfortable, happy, and having fun.
On a side note: PC games are better in most cases, but if a game comes out for both I usually get the PS3 version just because I would rather play it on a 42" TV vs a 24" monitor plus I get to be more comfortable. SItting at a computer desk all day while I'm at work and then coming home to play a MMORPG on my PC bothers me for some reason. I like to mix it up if I can.
Serious death penalties makes every close call an adrenaline rush, and every minor achievement a major victory. This alternative rule-set should be in all MMORPGs.
I'll just say this.
Most PC users and gamers do not mess with their computers in any way, shape, or form. They use it and get it serviced exactly as they would a console. The don't and won't ever upgrade their own computers, and will probably use it for up to eight or more years before finally replacing it.
That's part of why there's such a push on consoles. Because they way it's used caters much more successfully to the way the average consumer uses it. The active PC gamer that actually upgrades his computer on any form of an interval (don't think I've had a computer longer than a year >_>) is a minority. Be it a vocal one, but still a minority.
It is going to stay this way for a long time. We are needed as a group, because we are the early adopters in a sense. We are lovingly used with new hardware and get some interesting games and programs every so often as a result, but we are by no means a primary target for most companies.
[Mod Edit]
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I'm a gamer, not a geek.
If I could get a console that did everything I use my PC for, I wouldn't even think twice.
The PS3's ticked most of the boxes, I'm just waiting for:
1. Keyboard and Mouse support as standard. Especially on shooters.
2. MMO's to make the shift to console.
These two things happen, I'll happily toss my PC out of the window.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Add player made mods, UI addons and configurable hotkeys and we're set.
A friend of mine, actually a Unix AIX engineer already threw out his PC to the rubbish bin for games. He'd 1000% rather play in the sofa only having to eventually push the CD in the box than %@#$ mess with PC, and he does know quite more about IT than most nerds around.
Well, no. The original XBox largely fit that description, being basically PC hardware running a Windows-based OS, marketed as a gaming appliance. The 360 doesn't even have an Intel processor.
Well, no. The original XBox largely fit that description, being basically PC hardware running a Windows-based OS, marketed as a gaming appliance. The 360 doesn't even have an Intel processor.
Maybe it's a Macintosh?
No?
It's a PC.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Well, no. The original XBox largely fit that description, being basically PC hardware running a Windows-based OS, marketed as a gaming appliance. The 360 doesn't even have an Intel processor.
Maybe it's a Macintosh?
No?
It's a PC.
That is used and designed as a console...
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Well, no. The original XBox largely fit that description, being basically PC hardware running a Windows-based OS, marketed as a gaming appliance. The 360 doesn't even have an Intel processor.
Maybe it's a Macintosh?
No?
It's a PC.
That is used and designed as a console...
Exactly!
The PlayStation 3 is however something totally unique and too hard for the lazy devs to make games for or so they say.
Because they have to re-learn a lot of things when making games for the PlayStation 3 and as we all know learning new things are bad, bad, bad.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Problem with the PS3 is it's system architecture is different enough, due to the cell processor mainly, that to make any game run particularly well on it, you have to develop the engine to work specifically with the system.
That is rather unlike how most systems work, primarily because all the others aren't as reliant on their core processor to carry the bulk of their game along with it. Kind of why we have such powerful graphics cards.
Now that ain't an absolute, because we've also had plenty of work done on our core processors, and they remain one of if not the most important piece of hardware within our machines, but it's function has always been balanced with all the other hardware therein. The PS3 did away with that, instead putting the majority of the system's function into that part of the hardware that it becomes imbalanced and you lose a lot of potential when trying to build a game in the traditional fashion.
It really does require people to rebuild the engine their game runs on in order to get the most out of it, and that's where it become a matter of whether or not they'll spend the time, money, and effort to do so.
Unless it's a console exclusive, the return from that isn't enough to make any one care.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Sony development tools are years away from modern ones. As simple as that.
And this is different from a PC how exactly?
The box is shaped differently?
And this is different from a PC how exactly?
The box is shaped differently?
Pop in a disc & play. No installation. No configuration for different hardware. Support big screen HDTV (not all PCs have HDMI .. certainly not standard) so you can play on a couch.
Every game works on every machine 100% of the time. None of this "need newest graphics driver" shit or "turn off anti-alias" shit.
Works out of the box, plug in and play.
This topic is and always will be, rediculous. The "game" is more important. Today, more games are coming out on pc and console alike. The companies decide which platform they will release to, not the game itself.
They "aren't even competing. This makes me upset because there really is no point in saying one will crush the other. That's like saying one day taking a shower will crush taking a bath. See how you probably stopped reading at that point. I have a console and PC and i buy my games based on how easily they will be played on either platform.
Streetfighter 4: Xbox 360
Dragon Age Origins: PC
Notice how both games can be played on both platforms. Argument for argument's sake? Don't bother.
Also: Why do you give a shit? Are you happy with what you have? Yes... then great. No? Then go get what you want. I hope this thread dies with my post because it feels like a troll to begin with.
Can't find more detailed info. However, if you go to vgchartz.com ... Wii, PS3 + 360 units sales is roughly 70% of the US market in units with the only handheld being PSP + DS. Since console games are general MORE expensive than portable games, we can safely assume the console software market is >70%.
70% of $10.5B = $7.35B
Still ~14 times bigger than the PC games market.
BTW, steam & d2drive are TRACKED on NPD (and i think steam alone is 70% of the download market) starting mid-2009.
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/59062
That is only part of the games market. You have to include the subscriptions and item malls sales for MMORPGs. I think you will see a very different picture then.
Both have their strengths. Box sales for consoles, subscriptions and virtual items sales for PC. Both are there to stay for the near future.
Reposting what i just... posted in hopes that the thread dies. A debate for debate's sake annoys the hell out of me. This has been ran into the ground. We all lose, we all win.
Reposting what i just... posted in hopes that the thread dies. A debate for debate's sake annoys the hell out of me. This has been ran into the ground. We all lose, we all win.
So you bump the thread that annoys you, in the hope to let it die? LOL
Btw, reposting like that is trolling.