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I hate quests. A lot.

Capn23Capn23 Member Posts: 1,529

I can't stand quests. I can do them for the first few days and then I burn out. WAR was probably the closest to what I want, but there is so much else wrong with that game that I just can't play it.

 

Does anyone else hate quests with a passion?

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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!

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Comments

  • GTwanderGTwander Member UncommonPosts: 6,035

    Try DDO yet?

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  • Capn23Capn23 Member Posts: 1,529
    Originally posted by GTwander


    Try DDO yet?



     

    No, but I hear it's rather instanced and didn't it get micro-transaction not too long ago? Yah that's not my thing either lol.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!

  • djazzydjazzy Member Posts: 3,578

    Try EVE

  • GTwanderGTwander Member UncommonPosts: 6,035
    Originally posted by Capn23

    Originally posted by GTwander


    Try DDO yet?



     

    No, but I hear it's rather instanced and didn't it get micro-transaction not too long ago? Yah that's not my thing either lol.

     

    Don't knock it till you try it. Instanced to high-hell, yes, but the quests do the game supreme justice. Also, you don't need to cash-shop so much, except for mission packs later on, but if you're not paying monthly then I fail to see why I should care. Some of them range around 3 bucks for a whole zone full of mission interiors.

    On EVE - he will probably still view them as the same collect/kill missions every game has... but then again, I don't see what he found so special about WAR. Even the PQs were just the same thing with a few people running around competing against your score.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

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  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,044

    Darkfall now or Mortal Online if/when it comes out.

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • Capn23Capn23 Member Posts: 1,529
    Originally posted by arenasb


    Try EVE



     

    I may...

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    Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!

  • Capn23Capn23 Member Posts: 1,529
    Originally posted by GTwander

    Originally posted by Capn23

    Originally posted by GTwander


    Try DDO yet?



     

    No, but I hear it's rather instanced and didn't it get micro-transaction not too long ago? Yah that's not my thing either lol.

     

    Don't knock it till you try it. Instanced to high-hell, yes, but the quests do the game supreme justice. Also, you don't need to cash-shop so much, except for mission packs later on, but if you're not paying monthly then I fail to see why I should care. Some of them range around 3 bucks for a whole zone full of mission interiors.

    On EVE - he will probably still view them as the same collect/kill missions every game has... but then again, I don't see what he found so special about WAR. Even the PQs were just the same thing with a few people running around competing against your score.



     

    I liked that I could just PvP to level and do some PQs when I wanted. I HAAAAAATE solo quest grinds.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!

  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,044
    Originally posted by Capn23

    Originally posted by GTwander

    Originally posted by Capn23

    Originally posted by GTwander


    Try DDO yet?



     

    No, but I hear it's rather instanced and didn't it get micro-transaction not too long ago? Yah that's not my thing either lol.

     

    Don't knock it till you try it. Instanced to high-hell, yes, but the quests do the game supreme justice. Also, you don't need to cash-shop so much, except for mission packs later on, but if you're not paying monthly then I fail to see why I should care. Some of them range around 3 bucks for a whole zone full of mission interiors.

    On EVE - he will probably still view them as the same collect/kill missions every game has... but then again, I don't see what he found so special about WAR. Even the PQs were just the same thing with a few people running around competing against your score.



     

    I liked that I could just PvP to level and do some PQs when I wanted. I HAAAAAATE solo quest grinds.

    Dude, seriously try Darkfall. Looks like that just might be right up your alley! You'll get so much PvP you will be BEGGING for PvE!

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • GTwanderGTwander Member UncommonPosts: 6,035
    Originally posted by Capn23

    I liked that I could just PvP to level and do some PQs when I wanted.

     

    Ok, that makes sense. I hear Global Agenda is like that.

    Though, with the whole PvPing to level conundrum, lets get the point of PvE getting outleveled too quickly. While I find it works for WAR, namely because the PvE made my eyes bleed, it wouldn't for a game like AoC. There are tons of mid-level group dungeons that are simply amazing, and if you could outlevel them all by grinding in PvP I would find it a shame - even if the point was to avoid the boring quests in the broader zones. I think this is one of the major reasons games don't do this, but it worked for Mythic because they got lucky, or figured the majority of the game would be so boring that they needed that option.

    On Darkfall - but you need to PvE goblins+ for quite some time to even become a force to deal with in PvP. I haven't played, but that factoid is all over your subforums.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

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  • karat76karat76 Member UncommonPosts: 1,000

    I love quests. If I have to grind at least give some sort of reason other than to level. Maybe it due to my pnp beginnings but I like to have a reason to slaughter things.

  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,044
    Originally posted by GTwander

    Originally posted by Capn23

    I liked that I could just PvP to level and do some PQs when I wanted.

     

    Ok, that makes sense. I hear Global Agenda is like that.

    Though, with the whole PvPing to level conundrum, lets get the point of PvE getting outleveled too quickly. While I find it works for WAR, namely because the PvE made my eyes bleed, it wouldn't for a game like AoC. There are tons of mid-level group dungeons that are simply amazing, and if you could outlevel them all by grinding in PvP I would find it a shame - even if the point was to avoid the boring quests in the broader zones. I think this is one of the major reasons games don't do this, but it worked for Mythic because they got lucky, or figured the majority of the game would be so boring that they needed that option.

    On Darkfall - but you need to PvE goblins+ for quite some time to even become a force to deal with in PvP. I haven't played, but that factoid is all over your subforums.

    That can be true if your not in a Clan. But their is strength in numbers so even a new character has a chance in full-on 50v50 Sieges. Trust me. My character never got close to anything maxed out (except for LM but who dosen't) and I had quite a few kills daily. Helps when your City is sieged hourly!   

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • djazzydjazzy Member Posts: 3,578

    Darkfall would help itself a lot if they offered a trial.

  • patrikd23patrikd23 Member UncommonPosts: 1,155
    Originally posted by Capn23


    I can't stand quests. I can do them for the first few days and then I burn out. WAR was probably the closest to what I want, but there is so much else wrong with that game that I just can't play it.
     
    Does anyone else hate quests with a passion?

     

    Then you should play Darkfall or Mortal Online. Try both and see which one you like best. Mortal Online is in Open Beta atm. And there is prolly a trial for Darkfall present.

  • majimaji Member UncommonPosts: 2,091

    I think there are two ways to get bored quickly by quests.

    1) the quests of the game are boring by itself, always the same without any purpose

    2) not reading the quest descriptions.

    If a game does it well, questing is like reading a good book (short story collection) while beeing able to participate.

    Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

    Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  • GTwanderGTwander Member UncommonPosts: 6,035
    Originally posted by maji


    I think there are two ways to get bored quickly by quests.

    1) the quests of the game are boring by itself, always the same without any purpose

    2) not reading the quest descriptions.
    If a game does it well, questing is like reading a good book (short story collection) while beeing able to participate.

     

    One is a given, but nobody can expect today's gamer to handle number two.

    People are about efficiency, they need dem levels, and all they want to know is how many rats need killin'. In games like AoC you can take a break and listen to VO, and it's proved effective as a narrative to "why" you are doing anything. At least the first time through. In a game without VO, I always suggest emotes and overhead chat-bubbles. The "activity" in the scene alone will have players pay attention, for the most part. If they can run off they will.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

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  • Capn23Capn23 Member Posts: 1,529
    Originally posted by GTwander

    Originally posted by maji


    I think there are two ways to get bored quickly by quests.

    1) the quests of the game are boring by itself, always the same without any purpose

    2) not reading the quest descriptions.
    If a game does it well, questing is like reading a good book (short story collection) while beeing able to participate.

     

    One is a given, but nobody can expect today's gamer to handle number two.

    People are about efficiency, they need dem levels, and all they want to know is how many rats need killin'. In games like AoC you can take a break and listen to VO, and it's proved effective as a narrative to "why" you are doing anything. At least the first time through. In a game without VO, I always suggest emotes and overhead chat-bubbles. The "activity" in the scene alone will have players pay attention, for the most part. If they can run off they will.



     

    I try to read the quests, but when it comes down to it I really don't care that you need apples to feed your horse.

     

    You can write the most beautiful piece about how the horse needs apples, but I don't feel like I'm making a difference by getting that stupid horse some freakin apples. Maybe if I were defending a town from orcish raiders...then I might have some emotional investment in it. However, killing bears so you can skin them and make a nice coat for grandma isn't something I want to do to level up...

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!

  • GTwanderGTwander Member UncommonPosts: 6,035
    Originally posted by Capn23




    However, killing bears so you can skin them and make a nice coat for grandma isn't something I want to do to level up...

     

    Ah, but this is why I vouch for DDO. In most games this quest would deal with wandering out to some point in the zone and killing respawning bears until you hit the limit. In DDO, you enter a cave and they come at you one by one as you progress further in, there's traps laid out, and all sorts of other things going on. It's a coherent experience and not a chunk of "filler" to get leveled up. It stuck it's foot in it's mouth by being as instanced as it is, but there is no other way to convey these kinds of intricate events otherwise... and that's my biggest point here; quests can actually be "eventful" and non-static. You could know you're doing it for apples or grandma's coat, but when the route takes you through a well-tailored mini adventure - then for once you could say that questing in a game is "about the journey and not the outcome".

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
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  • NaxxaNaxxa Member Posts: 18

    I really hate the quests in MMO's as well. Well, I don't hate all quests just most of them.

    In a single player game, like Oblivion or Mass effect I have no problem with quest dialogs and what not. With MMOs on the other hand 95% of the quests are nothing more then bussy work "Hey you! I need 12 bear pelts, go get them for me and I'll give you a shiny nickle!" After about 20 of these my brain just shuts off and I just try to hit the accept button as fast as I can.

    I find a majority of MMO quests to be more work then just grinding mobs. Because thats what the quests are in MMOs work, doing stupid odd jobs for farmer bob. Oh hey im a High level Master Wizzard of the crescent dawn, I can kill people with my thoughts and raise the dead, but the only work I can find is to gather boar intestines for old lady McDasen to make pies out of.

    For every good quest in a MMO there's 99 cheep gathering quests, It's just better for my sanity to just not read the quests and miss the dialog for the good quests, then have to read threw 99 garbage quests.


    Whats really annoying about quests in most modern MMO's now is how the leveling curve expects you to do them, and in some cases you only get experience for quests, so its like ether you do the crappy quests or you just don't play the game

  • djazzydjazzy Member Posts: 3,578

    I will vouch for DDO's dungeons/missions. The added traps and other variables (and scaleable) make them very cool.

  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787
    Originally posted by maji


    I think there are two ways to get bored quickly by quests.

    1) the quests of the game are boring by itself, always the same without any purpose

    2) not reading the quest descriptions.
    If a game does it well, questing is like reading a good book (short story collection) while beeing able to participate.

     

    Thats the main problem I see with quests in mmos. There is very little in the way of participation because you know your actions arent effecting or achieving anything worthwhile. You get a reward and you watch your level go up but you dont see anything change in the game as a result of your actions. Its literally just a text file which you get to read and thats it. No decision making whatsoever.

    I'm currently playing Risen which is a single player game. Its fantastic! I'm completely hooked on it. It doesnt just dish out a bunch of text files. I get to select what I say to npcs from a list of multiple choice options and my choices change the way the games story unfolds. Npcs actually travel around the land and do things based on those decisions. Of course its all pre-scripted like most games but its still pretty immersive to see it all happening around you.

    Of course doing something like that in an mmo is very challenging and difficult to pull off.....but its not impossible. At the very least online rpgs could have multiple choice options to allow players to roleplay a character (gosh! Roleplaying in an rpg?! What ever next!) and cause different plot lines to unfold. Afterall most mmos really just boil down to thousands of individuals playing their own personal copy of the same game alongside each other anyway, so why cant the story pan out differently for each person? Even if they didnt get to see game changing events unfold then at least they would feel a little bit more involved in what is going on. A lot of people skip the quest text because they know damn well that its completely irrelevant to what they actually have to do. If they have to make a choice after reading it however then they will have a reason to pay attention and read it.

    I'm all for reading. I like reading a good novel from time to time. However I think a good computer rpg should be more than just an online book. Unfortunately mmos tend to focus on quantity rather than quality, so not only are large numbers of non-interactive text files used as a substitute for actual gameplay but it is often poorly written and boring. Thats part of the reason why I havent played any mmos for quite a while.

  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787
    Originally posted by GTwander

    Originally posted by Capn23




    However, killing bears so you can skin them and make a nice coat for grandma isn't something I want to do to level up...

     

    Ah, but this is why I vouch for DDO. In most games this quest would deal with wandering out to some point in the zone and killing respawning bears until you hit the limit. In DDO, you enter a cave and they come at you one by one as you progress further in, there's traps laid out, and all sorts of other things going on. It's a coherent experience and not a chunk of "filler" to get leveled up. It stuck it's foot in it's mouth by being as instanced as it is, but there is no other way to convey these kinds of intricate events otherwise... and that's my biggest point here; quests can actually be "eventful" and non-static. You could know you're doing it for apples or grandma's coat, but when the route takes you through a well-tailored mini adventure - then for once you could say that questing in a game is "about the journey and not the outcome".

     

    I tried DDO and its quests were indeed a lot more involving than what we tend to see in other mmos. They were very well thought out and required the player to actually think about what they were doing. There were puzzles to solve and traps to bypass. It wasnt like other mmos where everyone just runs back and forth mindlessly like headless chickens between quest giver and spawn points.

    However I didnt play the game for very long as it felt like a single player game.......so I just decided to play a genuine single player game instead which is generally better. I know I could have teamed up with some random strangers but I just didnt feel any inclination to do so at the time. Despite that (as it was just a personal thing) I thought it was a pretty good game that could be shared by a group of friends. In fact I could just imagine a group of D&D roleplayers playing it as a break from their weekend p&p roleplaying sessions. Its a shame that other online rpgs dont try to be more like proper roleplaying games actually.

  • uquipuuquipu Member Posts: 1,516
    Originally posted by neonwire


     At the very least online rpgs could have multiple choice options to allow players to roleplay a character (gosh! Roleplaying in an rpg?! What ever next!) and cause different plot lines to unfold. 

     

    Easy to do in a single player game.  Not so easy to do in a multi player game.

     

    Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,925
    Originally posted by Capn23


    I can't stand quests. I can do them for the first few days and then I burn out. WAR was probably the closest to what I want, but there is so much else wrong with that game that I just can't play it.
     
    Does anyone else hate quests with a passion?



     

    Most likely it's how they are implemented.

    A good many games disguise "grind" with having players run back and forth. I can't say that is my favorite either. However, i prefer quests (such as LOTRO quests) because they add greater purpose to just standing in a spot killing things ad infinitum.

    I actually do think you should try DDO.

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  • ComnitusComnitus Member Posts: 2,462
    Originally posted by uquipu

    Originally posted by neonwire


     At the very least online rpgs could have multiple choice options to allow players to roleplay a character (gosh! Roleplaying in an rpg?! What ever next!) and cause different plot lines to unfold. 

     

    Easy to do in a single player game.  Not so easy to do in a multi player game.

     

    Agreed. If you try, you get slandered as making a single-player co-op game with a monthly fee (which is obviously not worth paying for, despite all the other features common to MMOs that are in that game). 

    I haven't tried DDO quests, but I might. I'm playing LotRO and I enjoy the quests, though they're not much different than other MMOs. At least they try to inject some story and help you immerse yourself in Middle-earth. True quests (AKA adventures) are found in RuneScape, in my opinion.

     

    image

  • neonwireneonwire Member Posts: 1,787
    Originally posted by uquipu

    Originally posted by neonwire


     At the very least online rpgs could have multiple choice options to allow players to roleplay a character (gosh! Roleplaying in an rpg?! What ever next!) and cause different plot lines to unfold. 

     

    Easy to do in a single player game.  Not so easy to do in a multi player game.

     

     

    True. But like I said, it may be difficult to do but I dont think its impossible.

    Perhaps part of the issue is to do with these games companies desire to charge a monthly fee for their games. Because of this they end up having to focus on quantity instead of quality as they dont want the players to run out of content too quickly.

    How about making a smaller mmo thats perhaps the same length as a single player game and not charging a monthly fee for it? Instead of putting all that effort into churning out as much content as they can, instead they could focus on designing a decent system that allows players to interact with each other by influencing each others plot lines with their actions.

    The first adventure they make would be extremely challenging to build but once it was complete then I imagine making extra chapters that follow on from it (charging a one off fee for each one of course) would be a lot easier. I would certainly be interested in paying for something like this if it was done well. It would also be good value for people who have limited time to play games as they wont feel that they are wasting money on a monthly fee.

    Of course this is just an idea and a rather unlikely one too. There is little reason for games companies to deviate from the easy option of just churning out the types of mmo we are currently seeing. Afterall why give people something new when they arent expecting or asking for it and are happy to keep paying for what they are used to?

    Oh well. Non-interactive text files it is then lol

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