Don't get me wrong, I understand your concern. Everybody expects an Elder Scrolls MMO to be sandbox, but.. what if it isn't? Then what if SW:TOR isn't like ME or DA? I think people are saying it can't be like those games, because if you just took those single player game mechanics directly and slap a MMO on them it would be a horrendous failure. I would think Bioware is smarter than this.
To be honest, the videos for SW:TOR don't show a whole lot so far. I'm in no way expecting a sandbox out of them, but neither anything quite like ME/DA. It expect it will fall somewhere in the middle, with a lot of story/dialogue/hand-holding/instancing combined into larger persistent-world set-pieces. The uknown question is how large and / or sharded will those set-pieces be?
As far as your STO comment. I understand many feel it failed...expecting for a company to somehow re-create 40 years of Star Trek IP in various media AND a complete physics driven Universe ...from the largest galaxies down to a blade of grass on RIsa. I enjoy the game myself and seeing as I've had to wait in a logon queu on several occasions...I don't think it is failing all that much. In Cryptic's other game Champions Online...which I like only somewhat...I never had to wait in any queus..so in that...it is at least more of a success.
Isn't that all the more reason it should have been a potential groundbreaker though? I mean besides the purists out there that you'll never please within the confine of a game, especially in an mmo, when you consider the vast amount of potential they had to work with and the fact that there isn't a whole lot of competition for that genre of mmo doesn't it make it even more dissappointing what STO ends up being?
I'm not trying to slam the game or anything but can most really say STO lives up to what they think some other companies might have been able to accomplish with it or what Cryptic may have accomplished if they had taken more development time or not been trying to work on two mmos at the same time?
I don't know man. I think a hell of a lot better job could have been done with that game, least in my opinion. Don't get me wrong it isn't terrible, but considering what they had to work with it seems rather generic and void of exploration one would think a Star Trek game would have. Not to mention the story lines are rather bland to say the least in that game.
All good points...they do incorporate a lot into the game as you play on. Could it have been better?...Hell yeah. Better still if someone else had made it?...Can't really answer that...seems most MMO's are being f@cked up or at least shy of their potential ..no matter who made them..lol. I just think most expectations were unrealistic to the point that any game or game developer would have fallen short. Only decent..not perfect...IP translations so far...IMO...are LOTRO and AoC (which i feel is a highly underrated game...even considering its crappy launch)
Imo we can't tell how Bioware's mmorpg will be. What i know is that even Bioware has its own engine to create games like Mass Effect 1 or 2 or Dragon age, they chose Hero Engine in order to create the Star Wars mmorpg.
This is not that simple since it's very challenging for a succesful game company to purchase different and expensive tools in order to be succesful in the mmorpg market. They focus on story and it is just a matter of time to see if their approach can fit a massive scenario. I hope it will.
From all the videos I have seen so far, I see nothing that seem to not confirm my worst suspicions about SW-TOR. If anyone can show me/tell me something I might have missed, please do. I need some hype running through my veins. Sadly enough too, those who dont agree with my views here, have little to nothing to come up with other than it is a 'great company' or 'Blizzard did it'. I will hold my praise for Bioware's SW-TOR until the game is released. When that happens, you can come gloat at me if I were wrong
That will silence any doubts of whether or not this will be an MMO. Now, as far as being a sandbox? BioWare is not trying to make a sandbox. So no, it won't be a sandbox. What it will be is a damn good themepark MMO (if they deliver, obviously). You're trying to compare single-player games to MMOs, and that doesn't work. I understand why you're doing it - because BioWare is the company - but still, TOR is a game that takes the best aspect of BioWare's single-player games and combines it with the strengths of an MMO. As BioWare releases more information over the next year, we can all start to form more accurate opinions, so to save yourself some embarrassment, I would hold on any predictions. No one can truly say how everything will culminate and turn out just yet.
Looking at the zone design in the this video, it closely reminds me of zones in WoW. City areas and outdoor zones seems to be pretty massive. Pay attention to 4.40 in the video when zooms from an outdoor area into a dungeon. No zoning and the size seems to match a typical WoW or Aion levelling zone. There is much more details and everything seems to be closely handcrafted so there will probably a lot less wasted space than in WoW, but hopefully slightly more open than Aion.
We also know that Hero Engine (used by Bioware in SW:TOR) allows for a seamless world much like the WoW engine. There is unlikely to be many loading screen aside from planetary travel and when zoning to things like BGs and instances. There might be few zones per planet as well, so those might have a loading screen.
We know that the cut-scenes can be skipped. This has been confirmed. And apparently Flashpoints only make up a small percent of your overall leveling experience, so most of your missioning and leveling will take place outside of those.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
DragonAge was a fantastic game. I think the OP just died more than once during the tutorial, which is possible since the game demands a lot of strategy from the player. As far as not having freedom? DragonAge has so many possibilities it is silly. It's nearly impossible to play the game the same way twice. Neither were meant to be open worlds... they tell a STORY focused around your character. Such is the nature of singleplayer games. Name another singleplayer game that has this level of choice and freedom. Topic is silly imo.
At this point i don't care about people opinions on Bioware games.I have seen many version of this topic this one point is undisputable Bioware does not make bad games.I have seen many many people say they don't like DA or ME2 but one thing they are unable to say it is bad game.Either you love Bioware games or you think they are just decent games.
So the worse case scenario is you buy ToR you play it like you would DA or Mass Effect and after a one week of playing through a great single player you beat game, then next month pvp and craft until you get tired of the game.Then you start look for a new game me personally i think it will be a robust mmo.
I have question if after max level in Mass effect 2 you could go online and pvp,get couple group dungeons/extra missions and craft would you play that game? I think they would be a very small amount of people who would not be interested in that.
Boggles the mind that this even needs to be explained to the OP. But hey, when someone considers a 60 hour game to be "short" you gotta wonder if they've ever played a non-MMORPG before. /shrug
Personally I loved ME2 and found DA to be boring. I got 40% through a second playthrough of ME2. That's insane for me (at least half the non-MMO games I buy -- including Dragon Age -- I don't beat.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Looking at the zone design in the this video, it closely reminds me of zones in WoW. City areas and outdoor zones seems to be pretty massive. Pay attention to 4.40 in the video when zooms from an outdoor area into a dungeon. No zoning and the size seems to match a typical WoW or Aion levelling zone. There is much more details and everything seems to be closely handcrafted so there will probably a lot less wasted space than in WoW, but hopefully slightly more open than Aion. We also know that Hero Engine (used by Bioware in SW:TOR) allows for a seamless world much like the WoW engine. There is unlikely to be many loading screen aside from planetary travel and when zoning to things like BGs and instances. There might be few zones per planet as well, so those might have a loading screen. We know that the cut-scenes can be skipped. This has been confirmed. And apparently Flashpoints only make up a small percent of your overall leveling experience, so most of your missioning and leveling will take place outside of those.
Nice video. Thanks for showing me this. I certainly got better impression about the game and my expectations have increased due to this. That video looked more like WoW than it did look like for example Mass Effect 2. But I like the look about it. Still, far from as environmental beautiful as LOTRO, but still good enough.
Still, I feel that most games have along way to go to be comparable to the tight feeling you have over your toon when you play WoW.
Conclusion: I am no prophet, but I said it about STO; it will fail, and it did. Even more than I foresaw. I say it again; SW-TOR will fail. Regarding SW-TOR; I hope it will be a success, but judging from their RPG's I fear my prophecy will become reality. What I am sure about though; it will never challenge WoW and it's subscribers. I sincerely wish I could say something else, but there are no evidence that points in any other direction as far I can see it. . Right now I have my faith in FunCom's upcoming 'The Secret World'. Hopefully they can get it right this time.
So what you're saying, is that if you don't like the way that RPG was made, if the MMO will be made the same way it will fail?
I'll introduce you to these things called "personal opinions" here:
The funny thing about "personal opinions" is that they can never be considered as facts because it's foolish to say that one man's preferences would be better than the others.
In my ever so honest opinion, The Elder Scrolls series is the most boring RPG I've ever played and will play. I'd find it horrible to see such a game as an MMO. Especially if it means replacing a nice, linear experience with it.
So, I take your words as highly offending. Your opinion is no better than mine. Sandbox is not the answer for everyone. It's not the pinnacle of RPG experience, and it's not a future that every RPG company should strive for. That just sounds scary.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
A week ago I went into a shop and came out with both Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age. I was extremely hyped about the Conclusion: I am no prophet, but I said it about STO; it will fail, and it did. Even more than I foresaw. I say it again; SW-TOR will fail. Regarding SW-TOR; I hope it will be a success, but judging from their RPG's I fear my prophecy will become reality. What I am sure about though; it will never challenge WoW and it's subscribers. I sincerely wish I could say something else, but there are no evidence that points in any other direction as far I can see it.
You are not really the target group for TOR. Bioware makes their games for Bioware fans, not Blizzard fans, SOE fans or someone else.
If you hate the other games they made you will hate TOR too. But most people that hated all other Blizzard games hates Wow too, it is only logical. Blizzards success with Wow was mostly (at least from the start) that they found out what their fans wanted and gave them that.
Other companies have tried stealing away Blizzards fans, Mythic comes to mind but it failed. If Bioware tried the same they would autofail too.
Bioware do (like Blizzard had before Wow) have millions of fans that likes their games, if they get those to play TOR they will succeed but they will most likely not take that many players from Wow. Many of the Bioware fans have never even played a MMO and the critical part is to get them start, that is what Blizzard did.
As for STO, how many games have cryptic ever made that sold millions of numbers? 0. They also rushed the game to get it out and Star trek is a far harder IP to make into a game than Star wars. To guess STO would fail doesn't make you a prophet, anyone could easily have guessed that and to compare the 2 companies is stupid to say the least.
It is still unknown if Biowares own fans will like TOR or not, but Bioware usually know their focus group. I don't think it will challenge Wow, at least not in asia where Blizzard have huge popularity while Bioware are almost unknown but in north America, EU and Australia is there always the possibility.
A week ago I went into a shop and came out with both Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age. I was extremely hyped about the ME2 though, after reading a review. I only had mediocre expectations about Dragon Age though, as the way Bioware handles the playing of multiple characters doesnt appeal me much. Well at home, I installed both games, and started out with ME2. I will try to tell you my scepticism about the upcoming SW-TOR by playing ME2. . First of all I must say I am true fan of The Elder Scroll series. That is the way any RPG/MMO should be made. For me. I dont like any game to be focused around multiple characters, even though I really like how LOTRO has handled the skirmishes with multiple characters. The one thing that struck me immediately when playing ME2, was how "closed" it was. I really felt like being in a way too small rubber jacket. This was giving me the feeling as being as far from a "sandbox" as it could be. Will the MMO's be the same? Hard to say, but still, Dragon Age is build up quite similar, so I am sceptic here. This has turned my hype about upcoming SW-TOR alot, even though I would like to see Bioware and their MMO's on top above WoW. The next thing that hit me, was the way too simple character developing. really, can you even call it a character developing? Handfull of skills, increasable in only 4 tiers? Laughable at best. If Bioware wants to show some muscles on the MMO marked, shouldnt they start with what they can first? Not impressed at that part either. When it comes to the movement and control/feeling of the Avatar, I would say this was below average. Lightyears from how tight the toons feel in WoW though. And way below how a decent RPG/game should be today. Another concern, dunno if that is appropriate to compare with the MMO genre, was how short ME2 was; I went through it in around 60hrs, reading everything, visiting/depleting every planet. This was including all the cinematic sequences which is prolly 30% of total gaming time. Do I need say this game is ridicolously small? This shocked me. Hype dropped alot. Last and biggest concern, was how little "free" I felt. It was like someone was holding my hand all the way. No real danger of messing things up. Most "themepark" feeling I ever had in any serious RPG/MMO game. This is a really bad sign if you ask me. The whole concept felt immature; it was like being around 14 year old kids who just had learnt their first curse words. Still, I had 60 good hrs in Mass Effect. But I dont think I would have bought it if I knew it was that short, and I am definately not hyped about their 'Mass Effect 3'. . Now a few words about Dragon Age; It managed to hold my interest for like 30 minutes. What a piece of crap. Enough said about that. Not worth any more attention from me. . Conclusion: I am no prophet, but I said it about STO; it will fail, and it did. Even more than I foresaw. I say it again; SW-TOR will fail. Regarding SW-TOR; I hope it will be a success, but judging from their RPG's I fear my prophecy will become reality. What I am sure about though; it will never challenge WoW and it's subscribers. I sincerely wish I could say something else, but there are no evidence that points in any other direction as far I can see it. . Right now I have my faith in FunCom's upcoming 'The Secret World'. Hopefully they can get it right this time.
It seems to me that you are looking at these two games through the lens of what you would expect from an MMO, but that's an unreasonable expectation. Why? Because they are both linear single player games.
I recently played Bioshock and it was the exact same way. It was a very linear game that hand held you and basically herded you through the levels to the next part of the game. And that's what all three games are supposed to be as single player games. They aren't MMORPGs, so they aren't supposed to be massive and sandbox-like (though there are some sandbox single player games. Grand Theft Auto comes to mind.) Do I think 2K Games makes bad MMOs based on my experiences with Bioshock? I shouldn't because their single player games are no indication of how their MMOs will play like.
Let me put it another way: it's 6 or so years ago and you're reading up on this new MMORPG by Blizzard called "World of Warcraft." Blizzard has never developed an MMO before, but their single player games are known to be polished and fun. Based on what you know of Blizzard's single player games, will this new game, "World of Warcraft," be any good?
I think this is purely a wait and see type situation. I think Bioware is going to deliver a good, complete, fun MMORPG. They will be spending ~6 years developing it, and they have two studios working on it, so I have hope that it will be good, though I expect it will lean more towards themepark than sandbox.
DragonAge was a fantastic game. I think the OP just died more than once during the tutorial, which is possible since the game demands a lot of strategy from the player. As far as not having freedom? DragonAge has so many possibilities it is silly. It's nearly impossible to play the game the same way twice. Neither were meant to be open worlds... they tell a STORY focused around your character. Such is the nature of singleplayer games. Name another singleplayer game that has this level of choice and freedom. Topic is silly imo.
Dragon age requires a strategy? Damn, and I thought casting the same few CC spells, and then just nuking as much as I can with my whole party for every fight, was actually a routine.
Infinite amount of playstyles? Did we play the same game? The game did gave a few options now and then - but not gameplay options - they all just lead to a different cut-scenes -- gameplay is the same for any decision.
Orzammar - One friendly zone, couple of quests -> decision between two factions who want to contrl the city - both options lead to deep road - 6 locations full of mobs (5-6 hours of non-stop fightning) - then a bit different cutscene in the end based on what you chosed.
Elven forest - One friendly zone - couple of quests -> decision between elves and werevolfes - both options lead to 2 fores locations and one dungeon - different cutscene at the end based on decision.
Every zone is made like this, should I go on?
This is the silly generic design a'la Bioware. Give a sense of choice, but in the end - all leads to the same old fightning. Strategy? Oh come on.
Bioware makes a certain type of game. It is not a secret and it is not elder scrolls. Why on earth would you expect open game play from Bioware?
This post is foolish. Moreover, if you are only going to enjoy games that are open world you are not going to be playing many games. At some point you should relax and enjoy games for what they are and not try to force your ideals on games that never stated they would be open world.
There are a lot of great games out there now. I cannot remember a time when so many excellent games have been released in a 5 month period. I have never been happier with the state of single player games. Uncharted 2 and ME2 were both awesome and very closed world games. The elder scrolls series is great too.
[Mod Edit]
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
OP: What your statement is, correct me if I'm wrong, is that TOR will not be a good game because it will not be like Oblivion. Honestly, that's like saying Sonic 4 will be a bad game because it's not going to be like The New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Same genre (platformer), completely different games. Personally, I'm not really looking forward to TOR because (I know I'll regret saying this) I simply don't like Star Wars... It's a dead cow that people are still trying to milk. But as far as it being a bad game, despite the Star Wars? I'm sure it'll do just fine.
There's two type of RPG fans, one that love bioware and others that love bethesda.
In your opinion. I like neither bioware or bethesda, and I love RPG's, just none by those companies.
Im with you Crichton. I played almost every RPG that came out in last 20 years, and would say Bioware and Bethesda are mediocre at best in the genre.
Can either of you give a list of companies that are better? I am sure you have some in mind.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
CD Project - The Witcher Piranha Bytes - Gothic 1, 2, Risen Radon Labs - Drakensang Larian Studios - Divine Divinity, Divinity II
I can't argue with the companies of old, but Piranha Bytes has a habit for releasing incredibly buggy games that require tons of patches, and The Witcher was CD Projekt's *only* game, and it was built off the same engine that Bioware used for KotOR. I never played any of the other games, but I assume they are more common in Europe since I has a hard time finding a copy of the Witcher and Gothic 3 here in the states.
Ah, I see. You're from Slovakia, makes sense that you have a sense of nationalism behind your selection. All of them are European companies.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
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Comments
Don't get me wrong, I understand your concern. Everybody expects an Elder Scrolls MMO to be sandbox, but.. what if it isn't? Then what if SW:TOR isn't like ME or DA? I think people are saying it can't be like those games, because if you just took those single player game mechanics directly and slap a MMO on them it would be a horrendous failure. I would think Bioware is smarter than this.
To be honest, the videos for SW:TOR don't show a whole lot so far. I'm in no way expecting a sandbox out of them, but neither anything quite like ME/DA. It expect it will fall somewhere in the middle, with a lot of story/dialogue/hand-holding/instancing combined into larger persistent-world set-pieces. The uknown question is how large and / or sharded will those set-pieces be?
Isn't that all the more reason it should have been a potential groundbreaker though? I mean besides the purists out there that you'll never please within the confine of a game, especially in an mmo, when you consider the vast amount of potential they had to work with and the fact that there isn't a whole lot of competition for that genre of mmo doesn't it make it even more dissappointing what STO ends up being?
I'm not trying to slam the game or anything but can most really say STO lives up to what they think some other companies might have been able to accomplish with it or what Cryptic may have accomplished if they had taken more development time or not been trying to work on two mmos at the same time?
I don't know man. I think a hell of a lot better job could have been done with that game, least in my opinion. Don't get me wrong it isn't terrible, but considering what they had to work with it seems rather generic and void of exploration one would think a Star Trek game would have. Not to mention the story lines are rather bland to say the least in that game.
All good points...they do incorporate a lot into the game as you play on. Could it have been better?...Hell yeah. Better still if someone else had made it?...Can't really answer that...seems most MMO's are being f@cked up or at least shy of their potential ..no matter who made them..lol. I just think most expectations were unrealistic to the point that any game or game developer would have fallen short. Only decent..not perfect...IP translations so far...IMO...are LOTRO and AoC (which i feel is a highly underrated game...even considering its crappy launch)
Imo we can't tell how Bioware's mmorpg will be. What i know is that even Bioware has its own engine to create games like Mass Effect 1 or 2 or Dragon age, they chose Hero Engine in order to create the Star Wars mmorpg.
This is not that simple since it's very challenging for a succesful game company to purchase different and expensive tools in order to be succesful in the mmorpg market. They focus on story and it is just a matter of time to see if their approach can fit a massive scenario. I hope it will.
www.youtube.com/watch
Forum thread:
www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php
That will silence any doubts of whether or not this will be an MMO. Now, as far as being a sandbox? BioWare is not trying to make a sandbox. So no, it won't be a sandbox. What it will be is a damn good themepark MMO (if they deliver, obviously). You're trying to compare single-player games to MMOs, and that doesn't work. I understand why you're doing it - because BioWare is the company - but still, TOR is a game that takes the best aspect of BioWare's single-player games and combines it with the strengths of an MMO. As BioWare releases more information over the next year, we can all start to form more accurate opinions, so to save yourself some embarrassment, I would hold on any predictions. No one can truly say how everything will culminate and turn out just yet.
Looking at the zone design in the this video, it closely reminds me of zones in WoW. City areas and outdoor zones seems to be pretty massive. Pay attention to 4.40 in the video when zooms from an outdoor area into a dungeon. No zoning and the size seems to match a typical WoW or Aion levelling zone. There is much more details and everything seems to be closely handcrafted so there will probably a lot less wasted space than in WoW, but hopefully slightly more open than Aion.
We also know that Hero Engine (used by Bioware in SW:TOR) allows for a seamless world much like the WoW engine. There is unlikely to be many loading screen aside from planetary travel and when zoning to things like BGs and instances. There might be few zones per planet as well, so those might have a loading screen.
We know that the cut-scenes can be skipped. This has been confirmed. And apparently Flashpoints only make up a small percent of your overall leveling experience, so most of your missioning and leveling will take place outside of those.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
DragonAge was a fantastic game. I think the OP just died more than once during the tutorial, which is possible since the game demands a lot of strategy from the player. As far as not having freedom? DragonAge has so many possibilities it is silly. It's nearly impossible to play the game the same way twice. Neither were meant to be open worlds... they tell a STORY focused around your character. Such is the nature of singleplayer games. Name another singleplayer game that has this level of choice and freedom. Topic is silly imo.
At this point i don't care about people opinions on Bioware games.I have seen many version of this topic this one point is undisputable Bioware does not make bad games.I have seen many many people say they don't like DA or ME2 but one thing they are unable to say it is bad game.Either you love Bioware games or you think they are just decent games.
So the worse case scenario is you buy ToR you play it like you would DA or Mass Effect and after a one week of playing through a great single player you beat game, then next month pvp and craft until you get tired of the game.Then you start look for a new game me personally i think it will be a robust mmo.
I have question if after max level in Mass effect 2 you could go online and pvp,get couple group dungeons/extra missions and craft would you play that game? I think they would be a very small amount of people who would not be interested in that.
Boggles the mind that this even needs to be explained to the OP. But hey, when someone considers a 60 hour game to be "short" you gotta wonder if they've ever played a non-MMORPG before. /shrug
Personally I loved ME2 and found DA to be boring. I got 40% through a second playthrough of ME2. That's insane for me (at least half the non-MMO games I buy -- including Dragon Age -- I don't beat.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Dragon Age and ME2 are closer to books than MMOs, in my opinion. They both follow a story.
I think they are great games, but they are not MMOs. They are stand alones.
Bioware isn't going to recreate a UO or SWG clone. The MMO they make will be very different from ME2 or Dragon Age.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Nice video. Thanks for showing me this. I certainly got better impression about the game and my expectations have increased due to this. That video looked more like WoW than it did look like for example Mass Effect 2. But I like the look about it. Still, far from as environmental beautiful as LOTRO, but still good enough.
Still, I feel that most games have along way to go to be comparable to the tight feeling you have over your toon when you play WoW.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Heh, I loved both DA:O and ME2.
Haven't touched an MMO since ME2 launched.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
So what you're saying, is that if you don't like the way that RPG was made, if the MMO will be made the same way it will fail?
I'll introduce you to these things called "personal opinions" here:
The funny thing about "personal opinions" is that they can never be considered as facts because it's foolish to say that one man's preferences would be better than the others.
In my ever so honest opinion, The Elder Scrolls series is the most boring RPG I've ever played and will play. I'd find it horrible to see such a game as an MMO. Especially if it means replacing a nice, linear experience with it.
So, I take your words as highly offending. Your opinion is no better than mine. Sandbox is not the answer for everyone. It's not the pinnacle of RPG experience, and it's not a future that every RPG company should strive for. That just sounds scary.
You are not really the target group for TOR. Bioware makes their games for Bioware fans, not Blizzard fans, SOE fans or someone else.
If you hate the other games they made you will hate TOR too. But most people that hated all other Blizzard games hates Wow too, it is only logical. Blizzards success with Wow was mostly (at least from the start) that they found out what their fans wanted and gave them that.
Other companies have tried stealing away Blizzards fans, Mythic comes to mind but it failed. If Bioware tried the same they would autofail too.
Bioware do (like Blizzard had before Wow) have millions of fans that likes their games, if they get those to play TOR they will succeed but they will most likely not take that many players from Wow. Many of the Bioware fans have never even played a MMO and the critical part is to get them start, that is what Blizzard did.
As for STO, how many games have cryptic ever made that sold millions of numbers? 0. They also rushed the game to get it out and Star trek is a far harder IP to make into a game than Star wars. To guess STO would fail doesn't make you a prophet, anyone could easily have guessed that and to compare the 2 companies is stupid to say the least.
It is still unknown if Biowares own fans will like TOR or not, but Bioware usually know their focus group. I don't think it will challenge Wow, at least not in asia where Blizzard have huge popularity while Bioware are almost unknown but in north America, EU and Australia is there always the possibility.
It seems to me that you are looking at these two games through the lens of what you would expect from an MMO, but that's an unreasonable expectation. Why? Because they are both linear single player games.
I recently played Bioshock and it was the exact same way. It was a very linear game that hand held you and basically herded you through the levels to the next part of the game. And that's what all three games are supposed to be as single player games. They aren't MMORPGs, so they aren't supposed to be massive and sandbox-like (though there are some sandbox single player games. Grand Theft Auto comes to mind.) Do I think 2K Games makes bad MMOs based on my experiences with Bioshock? I shouldn't because their single player games are no indication of how their MMOs will play like.
Let me put it another way: it's 6 or so years ago and you're reading up on this new MMORPG by Blizzard called "World of Warcraft." Blizzard has never developed an MMO before, but their single player games are known to be polished and fun. Based on what you know of Blizzard's single player games, will this new game, "World of Warcraft," be any good?
I think this is purely a wait and see type situation. I think Bioware is going to deliver a good, complete, fun MMORPG. They will be spending ~6 years developing it, and they have two studios working on it, so I have hope that it will be good, though I expect it will lean more towards themepark than sandbox.
In your opinion. I like neither bioware or bethesda, and I love RPG's, just none by those companies.
In your opinion. I like neither bioware or bethesda, and I love RPG's, just none by those companies.
I can't really think of any other western companies that do RPGs as well... and the only JRPG series' worth a grain of salt are FF and SMT.
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In your opinion. I like neither bioware or bethesda, and I love RPG's, just none by those companies.
Im with you Crichton. I played almost every RPG that came out in last 20 years, and would say Bioware and Bethesda are mediocre at best in the genre.
REALITY CHECK
Dragon age requires a strategy? Damn, and I thought casting the same few CC spells, and then just nuking as much as I can with my whole party for every fight, was actually a routine.
Infinite amount of playstyles? Did we play the same game? The game did gave a few options now and then - but not gameplay options - they all just lead to a different cut-scenes -- gameplay is the same for any decision.
Orzammar - One friendly zone, couple of quests -> decision between two factions who want to contrl the city - both options lead to deep road - 6 locations full of mobs (5-6 hours of non-stop fightning) - then a bit different cutscene in the end based on what you chosed.
Elven forest - One friendly zone - couple of quests -> decision between elves and werevolfes - both options lead to 2 fores locations and one dungeon - different cutscene at the end based on decision.
Every zone is made like this, should I go on?
This is the silly generic design a'la Bioware. Give a sense of choice, but in the end - all leads to the same old fightning. Strategy? Oh come on.
REALITY CHECK
Bioware makes a certain type of game. It is not a secret and it is not elder scrolls. Why on earth would you expect open game play from Bioware?
This post is foolish. Moreover, if you are only going to enjoy games that are open world you are not going to be playing many games. At some point you should relax and enjoy games for what they are and not try to force your ideals on games that never stated they would be open world.
There are a lot of great games out there now. I cannot remember a time when so many excellent games have been released in a 5 month period. I have never been happier with the state of single player games. Uncharted 2 and ME2 were both awesome and very closed world games. The elder scrolls series is great too.
[Mod Edit]
--John Ruskin
OP: What your statement is, correct me if I'm wrong, is that TOR will not be a good game because it will not be like Oblivion. Honestly, that's like saying Sonic 4 will be a bad game because it's not going to be like The New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Same genre (platformer), completely different games. Personally, I'm not really looking forward to TOR because (I know I'll regret saying this) I simply don't like Star Wars... It's a dead cow that people are still trying to milk. But as far as it being a bad game, despite the Star Wars? I'm sure it'll do just fine.
In your opinion. I like neither bioware or bethesda, and I love RPG's, just none by those companies.
Im with you Crichton. I played almost every RPG that came out in last 20 years, and would say Bioware and Bethesda are mediocre at best in the genre.
Can either of you give a list of companies that are better? I am sure you have some in mind.
--John Ruskin
SW:TOR is the last hope for a playable MMO that's not WoW that will keep you entertained for more than a month.
If this game fails, the genre fails. WoW destroyed it.
well if youre an expirienced gamer and know the trade.. ah .nvm
This is how i do it : Bioware or Bathesda (or whatever)
1. when i start a new game i pick the hard or hardcore gamedifficulty
2. i mix the doing main and sidequests ....with a focus on side quests
3. When you get the feeling your bout to reach the core /close end to a story ....do everything but that mainquest
example : i played DAO on nightmare mode at first playthrough and had shitloads of fun ( i didnt patch up)
In your opinion. I like neither bioware or bethesda, and I love RPG's, just none by those companies.
Im with you Crichton. I played almost every RPG that came out in last 20 years, and would say Bioware and Bethesda are mediocre at best in the genre.
Can either of you give a list of companies that are better? I am sure you have some in mind.
Among the still existing ones:
Among the dead ones:
And sure a lot more I can't think of now, that I would consider to be better than Bioware or Bethesda.
REALITY CHECK
I can't argue with the companies of old, but Piranha Bytes has a habit for releasing incredibly buggy games that require tons of patches, and The Witcher was CD Projekt's *only* game, and it was built off the same engine that Bioware used for KotOR. I never played any of the other games, but I assume they are more common in Europe since I has a hard time finding a copy of the Witcher and Gothic 3 here in the states.
Ah, I see. You're from Slovakia, makes sense that you have a sense of nationalism behind your selection. All of them are European companies.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture