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General: Most Overused MMO Conventions

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Comments

  • MunkiMunki Member CommonPosts: 2,128

    Acronyms, a social development out of necessity is overused?

    Its the only practical way to communicate sussinctly and expediously with a keyboard.

    You're saying the same thing over and over again.

    It happens in every part of life, psychology has a million of them. BIRF, Basking in reflected glory... Not even used too terribly much in psych but its got acronyms.

    They exist because they make life better. Try to find something actually logical to bitch about next time, these articles of yours are really hit and miss.

    image
    after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...

  • lttexxanlttexxan Member UncommonPosts: 429

    well I attended a convention once in Akron....man it was unbearable...it was all accountants for dentists....does this count?

     

    It's better to lurk in forums and be thought a fool...than to endlessly "Quote" and remove all doubts.

  • RegenRegen Member Posts: 53

    For SnarlingWolf and Devios.
     
    Discussing the url of MMORPG.com isnt particularly interresting. Urls are often acronyms, i dont really see why you even brought it up.
     
    I said Avoid useage of acronyms, slang and leetspeak.
    I did not say Never use.


    The reason i said it is becouse of posts that use it extensively, and i have to look it up somewere becouse its acronyms of some term or name that dont really tell me anything.

    Once we start making acronyms of lots of 2-word names, titles, products, buissiness terms and techincal terms we suddenly have a verry cryptic lingo.


    Slang is words used by a spesific group of people.
    That means that someone whos not part of that group might not understand.

    Shorting down words are fine as long as theyre common words the majority know.
    Colloquialism and slang is not the same thing.


    Leetspeak is what i associate with words consisting of numbers and symbols, used by rude little kids.


    Interestingly, theres no rule against not speaking english. I guess the natives never considered that.
    Guess it dont matter. "When in rome, do as the romans"

    image

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/261448/page/5


    "I'd just like to see more games that focus on the world, and giving the people in it more of a role, im tired of these constant single player games that you can walk around with millions of people."


    - Parsalin

  • GylfiGylfi Member UncommonPosts: 706

    I agree with all the list.

    The problem that encompasses most of the points is babysitting the players.

    There's nothing wrong with killing rats and other fauna, neither is there about delivering things, the problem is that you can't choose where to do it and how many you want of the items... and also that there's no actual reason for doing it, it's completely pointless, the nonsense is covered with some empty blathering.

    Also the chat channels are a disgrace for many reasons and are SO easily avoidable. With chat rooms MMO's are reduced to single player games with built-in IRC channels. This takes away the need to socialize inside the actual game. And the obvious way to avoid it is to create active places of gathering. A spot for market, one for combat training, one for politics, one for thievery etc. etc.... the game itself with its mechanics should offer coherent places to talk and discuss.

    All these flaws contribute in breaking the suspension of disbelief and make MMO's constant meta-videogames

    For the rest i literally pity those who say these game elements are inevitable part of the genre. The genre is just about a world that's online, persistant and has many people in. There's no other requirements for the genre and certainly right-cliking an NPC that hand-holds you to random spawn-locations isn't part of these requirements.  How can anyone say PvE defines the genre when everyone knows Planetside had no such a thing? ISn't it an MMO?

  • StrontyDogStrontyDog Member Posts: 83

    You should try Darkfall OP!

    The PvE doesn't revolve around questing so no need for your KTR quests or fedex quests.

    No Levels

    No Classes

    No oversized weapons and armor, just realistic looking stuff

    People use voicecomms instead of chatboxes to communicate

    Ok.. it does have elves but 4 out of 5 isn't bad eh. :P

  • LodenDSGLodenDSG Member Posts: 266
    Originally posted by docminus


    You forgot one thing regarding armour:
    when it comes to female characters, the armour is often rather "undersized". The more powerfull the armour, the less body surface seems to be covered....



     

    True, not that Im not a fan but it is a bit overused, if they want to go skimpy thats fine but perhaps they could cover logily vital parts; she will have her nipples covered of course with small shields but her heart, gut, etc completly bare is more or less completly exposed, massive sholder pads but waste down she is in a thong and boots.

    You can go revealing or even slutty and still have some apperance of logicle armor factor, there are other options besides crome bikini

    image

  • HardcoreHeroHardcoreHero Member Posts: 72
    Originally posted by William Murphy



    #4 Fantasy

    I love elves, dwarves, goblins, and orcs as much as the next guy. But come on, folks. Global Agenda's marketing department got it right: at this point the fact that a new game might not have elves in it is actually a potential selling point. I may even be saying the exact same thing next year about Science Fiction as a setting for our MMOs, but right now I'll just focus on the obvious. I've had enough of D&D inspired gaming. Though it's not an MMO, I actually had trouble getting through Dragon Age, so sick I am to death of all things sword and board. Also worth mentioning? Blizzard's got fantasy covered. Like it or not, any new game released with familiar trappings of medieval fantasy is going to be directly compared to World of Warcraft, and as we've seen in the past... that's not always a good thing.

    I'm sorry but this is just completely wrong.  Fantasy is beloved by more people than you can imagine, including me.  I am sick of  seeing science fiction games, but I understand that there are a lot of people that go nuts for it.  I wouldn't dismiss a whole genre just because I personally don't like it.  Also, just because Blizzard has a stranglehold on easy, themepark fantasy doesn't mean that sandbox fantasy can't thrive.  I am looking forward to The Elder Scrolls MMO, Final Fantasy XIV, and Mortal Online... let's see that's fantasy, fantasy, and... fantasy.  I love fantasy,  I live for fantasy, and you should really think before you type something so egregious and blatantly wrong.

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    "I have no idea what''s going on." - Tasos Flambouras

  • JitzukaiJitzukai Member Posts: 1

    I think one of the worst things ever introduced to mmorpgs is global chat.

  • wootinwootin Member Posts: 259

    Well said, and timely too. I view most of these as being "standard items" on an MMO design checklist now. Not because they're necessary or fun, but because they're held over from the days when that was about all the technology could accomplish. Interestingly, virtual environments (including those that are not games) have proved that you don't need to fill up a player's time with dreck quests. As long as there's some interactivity in the environment, players will create their own time-wasters in the game.

    As proof, check out CoX's Costume Contests, which are player run, player funded, and happen about 30 times a day lol. Because it's fun to bring what you've made in the Costume Designer to a contest, and worth bonus points if you got a rare piece from a quest to put in your costume.

    So frankly, I think designers should dump all of the deliberate time-wasters and just put in things that players can use creatively to make some fun happen.

     

     

  • VaedurVaedur Member Posts: 430
    Originally posted by Jitzukai


    I think one of the worst things ever introduced to mmorpgs is global chat.

     

    Yes and no, makes a world feel less empty.  You can turn it off.  I think the easying of a game to push people to endgame fast is 100 times worse

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Jitzukai


    I think one of the worst things ever introduced to mmorpgs is global chat.

     

    Global chat was introduced to compensate for the retard design decision of limiting travel "to make the world seem bigger," as it did little else other than make it harder for players to congregate.  Rather than admit they hosed travel, most developers added in clan houses or clan ownership locations, with recall or telport systems to get to them based on the false belief that the guild you join in a gear-dependent levelfest has any particular overlap with the people you choose to interact with ingame.

     

    Yeah... I have no affinity for global chat in most MMOs :) 

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • RealmLordsRealmLords Member Posts: 358

    I love a good cliche.  So do my toons :-)

     

    Ken

     

    www.ActionMMORPG.com
    One man, a small pile of money, and the screwball idea of a DIY Indie MMORPG? Yep, that's him. ~sigh~

  • ForgefeuForgefeu Member UncommonPosts: 113

    You could have added "Crossroad"

    There is a famous crossroad place in about every mmorpg :)

  • chromekatanachromekatana Member Posts: 36
    Originally posted by HardcoreHero

    Originally posted by William Murphy



    #4 Fantasy

    I love elves, dwarves, goblins, and orcs as much as the next guy. But come on, folks. Global Agenda's marketing department got it right: at this point the fact that a new game might not have elves in it is actually a potential selling point. I may even be saying the exact same thing next year about Science Fiction as a setting for our MMOs, but right now I'll just focus on the obvious. I've had enough of D&D inspired gaming. Though it's not an MMO, I actually had trouble getting through Dragon Age, so sick I am to death of all things sword and board. Also worth mentioning? Blizzard's got fantasy covered. Like it or not, any new game released with familiar trappings of medieval fantasy is going to be directly compared to World of Warcraft, and as we've seen in the past... that's not always a good thing.


    I'm sorry but this is just completely wrong.  Fantasy is beloved by more people than you can imagine, including me.  I am sick of  seeing science fiction games, but I understand that there are a lot of people that go nuts for it.  I wouldn't dismiss a whole genre just because I personally don't like it.  Also, just because Blizzard has a stranglehold on easy, themepark fantasy doesn't mean that sandbox fantasy can't thrive.  I am looking forward to The Elder Scrolls MMO, Final Fantasy XIV, and Mortal Online... let's see that's fantasy, fantasy, and... fantasy.  I love fantasy,  I live for fantasy, and you should really think before you type something so egregious and blatantly wrong.

     

     I don't think he meant to put it that way. I do love my fantasy games(also looking forward to an TES MMO) but like he said, its alittle over used as a genre. I just think that they should try to make other genre of games. Though, I don't most of the sci-fi games.(looking forward to Stargate Worlds and and StarWars MMo though*)

     

     

     

    * Only because I'm a fan of those two series. :)

     

     

     

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,548

    Funny how UO avoided 5 of your 7.  EQ was the inventor of many of these.  I still feel EQ hurt the genre more than any other game.

  • toddzetoddze Member UncommonPosts: 2,149

    the "fedex" quests really piss me the F*&% off, and yes it is a hand holding tool.

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • ScottgunScottgun Member UncommonPosts: 528

    "#6 The Holy Trinity

    This is one I'm tossing into the list, even though I've come to accept it as an inevitability of design "

     

    Smart man. Saying the archetypes of tank/healer/nuker are an overused convention is like saying wings on a plane are an overused convention. That is to say, when I think on the few games that went in for the "be anything you want to be" class design, all I can think of is that they SUCKED. ALL. DAY. LONG.

     

     

  • Jairoe03Jairoe03 Member Posts: 732
    Originally posted by Scottgun


    "#6 The Holy Trinity
    This is one I'm tossing into the list, even though I've come to accept it as an inevitability of design "
     
    Smart man. Saying the archetypes of tank/healer/nuker are an overused convention is like saying wings on a plane are an overused convention. That is to say, when I think on the few games that went in for the "be anything you want to be" class design, all I can think of is that they SUCKED. ALL. DAY. LONG.
     
     

     

    I beg to differ. I just think much of our thinking has been trapped into this mold and find it harder and harder to perceive a reality without it as more and more games utilize it. STO is a great example (and a bit ridiculous, at least in regards to spaceships), they practically utilize the trinity on their space combat, which to me is a bit absurd.

    How about a game that allows everyone the ability to do great damage and decent tank (decent enough to utilize in an instance) and mixing/matching the roles a bit and not focus raids so hard on maximizing every detail in the encounter. The game could focus more on actually movement and coordination (I know they do this now, but the game doesn't entirely  have to be about numbers, class/roles and a little bit of movement, I'm talking about a much greater emphasis).

    When I think of it, the heroes in the books seem to be more than just an ass kicker or a guy who sits there and takes beatings all day for his teammates. They were smart too, resourceful when times were challenging and some were able to take damage and dish it out in equal proportions. I think this model is outdated and it should start evolving since if it stays the same, WoW will be around for the next 10 years as the number contender since they seem to do it best.

  • jaxsundanejaxsundane Member Posts: 2,776

    I loved this article and agree with just about the entire list.  I started to tire of fantasy after playing LOTRO for some time and by the time of AOC and WAR and those games I was done with fantasy for some time though I did have a half hearted attempt at playing DDO.

    And the funniest thing is I just used an entire slew of acronyms but am going to complain about them anyway haha.  In the discussions on the boards about games in general it obviously doesn't bother me much but I have actually had games I just gave up on because I didn't really want to learn an entire new language that isn't useful anywhere but that particluar game.  It's great that you touched on the fact that this is a trend in this "text" life so many live nowadays, I'll never use twitter simply because of what it represents in practice regardless of what the makers might have hoped for (though I suspect it is pretty close to what they wanted).

    On the one hand I can understand the complaint about quests because I would like to see "something" different as well but at the same time it doesn't have the same negative effect on me that I know the majority of mmo players seem to feel.  I tend to stick to games that have a rich lore that attracts me and that alleviates alot of that since I inherently want to experience that world I never have a problem reading the quests and what not but when it comes to games I may have never heard of they often don't create anything that I can get close enough to care about so I get that same negative feeling about questing.

    But again nice article.

    but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....

  • ScottgunScottgun Member UncommonPosts: 528
    Originally posted by Jairoe03

    Originally posted by Scottgun


    "#6 The Holy Trinity
    This is one I'm tossing into the list, even though I've come to accept it as an inevitability of design "
     
    Smart man. Saying the archetypes of tank/healer/nuker are an overused convention is like saying wings on a plane are an overused convention. That is to say, when I think on the few games that went in for the "be anything you want to be" class design, all I can think of is that they SUCKED. ALL. DAY. LONG.
     
     

     

    I beg to differ. I just think much of our thinking has been trapped into this mold and find it harder and harder to perceive a reality without it as more and more games utilize it. STO is a great example (and a bit ridiculous, at least in regards to spaceships), they practically utilize the trinity on their space combat, which to me is a bit absurd.

    How about a game that allows everyone the ability to do great damage and decent tank (decent enough to utilize in an instance) and mixing/matching the roles a bit and not focus raids so hard on maximizing every detail in the encounter. The game could focus more on actually movement and coordination (I know they do this now, but the game doesn't entirely  have to be about numbers, class/roles and a little bit of movement, I'm talking about a much greater emphasis).

    When I think of it, the heroes in the books seem to be more than just an ass kicker or a guy who sits there and takes beatings all day for his teammates. They were smart too, resourceful when times were challenging and some were able to take damage and dish it out in equal proportions. I think this model is outdated and it should start evolving since if it stays the same, WoW will be around for the next 10 years as the number contender since they seem to do it best.



     

    I beg to differ. Plenty of games do what you describe. They start tweaking the classes so that they can pull double duty. LotRo is a good example of that, and the game is poorer for it.

  • Jairoe03Jairoe03 Member Posts: 732
    Originally posted by Scottgun

    Originally posted by Jairoe03


     
    I beg to differ. I just think much of our thinking has been trapped into this mold and find it harder and harder to perceive a reality without it as more and more games utilize it. STO is a great example (and a bit ridiculous, at least in regards to spaceships), they practically utilize the trinity on their space combat, which to me is a bit absurd.
    How about a game that allows everyone the ability to do great damage and decent tank (decent enough to utilize in an instance) and mixing/matching the roles a bit and not focus raids so hard on maximizing every detail in the encounter. The game could focus more on actually movement and coordination (I know they do this now, but the game doesn't entirely  have to be about numbers, class/roles and a little bit of movement, I'm talking about a much greater emphasis).
    When I think of it, the heroes in the books seem to be more than just an ass kicker or a guy who sits there and takes beatings all day for his teammates. They were smart too, resourceful when times were challenging and some were able to take damage and dish it out in equal proportions. I think this model is outdated and it should start evolving since if it stays the same, WoW will be around for the next 10 years as the number contender since they seem to do it best.



     

    I beg to differ. Plenty of games do what you describe. They start tweaking the classes so that they can pull double duty. LotRo is a good example of that, and the game is poorer for it.

     

    I want to believe your perception isn't solely based on the class functions within the game since a class system isn't what defines the whole game. The short sightedness is prominent just in this response and rather respond to the whole post, a piece was taken and a statement was made even though my idea was actually being presented in light of other things and I would of actually put greater emphasis on a game that doesn't revolve around the math and the roles/powers specifically. 

    The idea was to put more focus on other aspects of a game that can be utilized such as character movement and positioning. Again, just an idea that crossed my mind in a matter of minutes, but again, the emphasis was an idea that didn't HAVE to utilize the trinity by drawing some of the emphasis away from the class system itself and putting more emphasis into other aspects of the game. Thanks for  becoming part of my example, in which my point I was trying to make from the first paragraph of my original post is proven. I think many players have been used to following this mold and it's just somethign we're all familiar with and many are also resistant towards change or being able to perceive something that isn't familiar.

  • RudeaspRudeasp wysiwygMember Posts: 49

    These things are made worse by lazy MMO developers which have abused certain aspects of games just so they don't have to impliment other tatics, and play styles made by the wider variety of fantasy games.

     

    7. Kill ten rats. These should aways be starting quests for the noobs, or those trying to gain trust for even bigger quests. I'm going to mix this one with 5. Fed Ex Quests. The idea is questing if these are an issue just throw out questing and story line progression all together. Fed Ex Quests should be allowing the player to travel to areas they wouldn't have discovered on their own.

    6. The Holy Trinity. This was never set in stone when it came to fantasy, or gaming, so I don't know why MMOs tried to make it the standard. They even attempt to break out of this model by intrudicing random target attacks. In fantasy many large battles were won with cunning, skill, luck, and a well timed advancement on the targets weakness. Tank and spank I feel for most people is boring, and puts too much importance on a very limited set of classes.

    5. Fed Ex Quests. I included this in 7.

    4. Fantasy. There is no limit to fantasy. The basic races are just a start. Why some MMOs only pick these classes, or add one or two types more is a failure, and lazy on their part. There is an almost limitless number of races in the fantasy genre of games. Even Everquest had 16 playable races, and classes. The paper RPGs had it right I don't know why its changed.

    3. Oversized Armor, and Weapons. You're trolling right? Should they wear a suit and carry a suitcase?

    2. Levels. This is something that's easily abused. Originally it was used to show how experienced you are, but it has since become a ladder to indefinitely climb, which isn't possible. Once you're able to master your class, and demand the respect of your entire race that's it for the reason to level. Its needed, but I think most people feel maybe only in the lower levels, but later its a pain to have spent so much time getting the best there is to offer then the levels get raised, and someone is wearing something they found on the floor that's better then yours which dropped from the trans dimensional ruler of planes boss....

    1. Acronyms. ROLFMAO!

     

    Mhmmm

  • AdacanavarAdacanavar Member Posts: 9

    Rolling on the floor laughing :) Oh my God it can be done :) laugh out load.

     

    Just kidding seriously though i agree with the list i really want a game that is not level based i grind to max level and then I'm bored out of my mind I quite that MMO and go play another MMO that is exactly the same as the previous one its very boring all in all but what is a person to do.... I would very much like to see an MMO that uses purchasing of skills with EXP as opposed to the now very common grind to hit max level that we now have.

    A good example of this in a game format would be the original vampire the masquerade redemption though outdated the game had the right idea for versatile character advancement more in line with the original pen and paper.  Though i would like to see less of an pawn come out of it than in that game.  I want someone to go study the warhammer 40k pen and paper game rogue trader or dark heresy and use that system to build characters around in an MMO only removing the proffession rank max then throw it into a world as big as eve-online with better questing for nubs and a more advanced system for controlling territory as a guild/alliance/corp/etc... than is in eve (notice i said more advanced not more complicated or time consuming eve has plenty of that as is).

     

    I don't know its possible I am just asking to much of game designers.

     

    Thanks for reading.

    Adacanavar

    I am the monkey

  • DrachasorDrachasor Member Posts: 2,678
    Originally posted by Scottgun
    I beg to differ. Plenty of games do what you describe. They start tweaking the classes so that they can pull double duty. LotRo is a good example of that, and the game is poorer for it.

    There are probably hundreds of group-based games out there that require cooperation that don't pigeon-hole a person into either a tank, healer, or a dps.  Such games range from schoolyard stuff, to sports, to board games, to P&P RPGs, to many computers games.  The idea that "every game must be HT" is laughable.

    Of course, you get the guys who confuse the tanking role with "ability to take damage", when it is actually a mechanics wherein one person takes the vast majority of the damage and that's pretty much his sole job (everything he does is around him taking damage and working to make sure it stays that way).  They confuse the healing role with the idea of recovering health, when actually it is a role where someone's sole function is to ONLY heal in DURING combat.  They confuse the DPS role with "the ability to deal damage" when in actuality it in the HT it is someone whose sole function is to supply damage (to various sources).  Sure, HT games modify this SLIGHTLY by having debuffing clearing and some CC, but overall this specialization into the above 3 roles is what people who complain about the HT are talking about.  It was what the people in this thread complaining about it are talking about.  (I don't mean to beat on you about this, I just read the first couple pages and the last page, but I recognize some names of people who think like the above).

    Also, real life combat doesn't act like the HT at all, for what it is worth.  There ARE specializations, just like MANY games have specializations, but they aren't composed of HT roles by any means (even if some terms like "tank" are used in both, they have very different meanings).  Yes, there is healing, but they don't fully patch you up in battle...they stabilize your condition and send you to heal outside of battle (over a long time).  Overall, things are VASTLY different, but it isn't like the tactics or strategy of real life combat are degenerate or simple (as some in this thread have claimed).

     

    Heh, I saw one post early on claiming that all systems are either paper-rock-scissors or degenerate into a "best strategy."  For the sake of argument, let's assume that's true (it isn't).  Guess what?  The Holy Trinity ISN'T paper-rock-scissors (where x beasts y, y beats z, and z beats x).  Just because two systems have 3 roles doesn't mean those roles are the same.  Also, just because HT has 3 roles doesn't mean all games can only have 3 roles without missing something or adding something that doesn't matter or doesn't work.

    Anyhow...

    Probably the worst damage the HT systems have ever done is make people think they are the only systems that make sense or that can exist.

     

     

     

  • DeivosDeivos Member EpicPosts: 3,692

    'Tis why I said I was just being a twit Regen. My commentary was just a mindless jab.

     

    But since you pressed it, I included colloquialisms, you included the rest. And I'm aware of the differences, otherwise the word would have been used in lieu, not in addition to 'slang'.

     

    My comment with that post was that if you are to promote or prefer a particular mode of speech or communique, then you should be capable of using it correctly. Whether that's due to English not being a primary or not may influence such condition, but then it'd go to wonder the point of persistent banter on a non-native forum.

     

    Onto another unrelated point.

     

    I really really don't like the 'trinity'. Or any overly clear cut classes. It goes to the problem of comparing Chess to Go for me. Most games have gone the route of Chess. You have differentiated classes with differentiated functions to do a finite set of things. Now that's fine and dandy for Chess, because you have all those things at your disposal at once. In games though, where you're playing only one of those specialized classes, it's a rather big difference though. Strategies change dramatically, and overall become painfully simple and boring.

    I don't care how much some one says it takes strategy to work with different character builds and classes in any game to do raids or otherwise. I have played them, and they have been found wanting. Severely so.

    It's also a fault of the origin in part for me. A class based system to begin with limits the potential range of formula and strategy to the potential amount of combined patterns available with the set you have compared to the available set and placement of the enemy. That's why any halfway decent Chess player can see where a game is going only a move or two into a game.

    I much prefer the depth of strategy involved in the need of overcoming the hidden variables in a game. A classless system is the only way to perform such an engaging task. Hence my preference for Go. It's the same piece used time and again, no special attributes differentiate it from the next piece, only your understanding of strategy and your ability to out think and out perform your opponent lets you win, not by doing the same formulaic movement sets again and again.

    It's a system that allows for learning and adapting. Pac Man figured that one out, you couldn't keep doing the same thing over and over because the AI was wise enough to alter behavior to circumvent your prior strategy. I am still confused why it was an aspect of games that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin

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