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General: Most Overused MMO Conventions

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Comments

  • deka01deka01 Member Posts: 7

     I'm not sure if anyone has said this but as for leveling why not have them move across a board like in ff10 or learn abilities from equipment like ff9

    image

  • RekindleRekindle Member UncommonPosts: 1,206

    Kill x and Fedex are 2nd generation concepts brought upon by wow and  eq2.  EQ1, to my recollection, had no kill x. It did indeed have some fedex quests.

     

    I would add to the list "quests" in general.  Quests are lineral task driven content in lieu of true player freedom and are on the top 5 list of bad design elements.

  • RekindleRekindle Member UncommonPosts: 1,206

    ps yes, play Eve its really good at being outside the box.

  • rscott6666rscott6666 Member Posts: 192

    The only thing worse than knowing you have to kill 10 rats, is having to kill rats but NOT knowing how many.

    And the only thing worse than having to kill rats but not knowing how many is a mission where you don't even know what you are supposed to kill.

  • Cristina1Cristina1 Member UncommonPosts: 372
    Originally posted by Rekindle


    ps yes, play Eve its really good at being outside the box.

     

    or...play Mortal Online. :)

  • pojungpojung Member Posts: 810
    Originally posted by tapeworm00

    You are assuming that the only conceivable form of resolving a combat is via the drainage of hit points. Why not design a form of combat that is solved in other manners? It's an example I won't take to its final consequences and implications, but it superficially serves as a way of sparking ideas outside the traditional combat form: Monkey Island's pirate duels. There are, of course, "hit points" in the sense that after a certain number of correct questions and responses you win the duel, but the form of winning is otherwise pretty unrelated to what one would commonly conceive as a form of resolving the combat: you pose an insult, and the enemy must turn it around with his "wit", then the enemy poses an insult, and so on. It's got absolutely nothing to do with how RPGs/MMOs treat the hit points element. As I said, I won't design a game idea around this, but the possibility to do so is there.

    Another example comes from the FPS world. Twitch reflexes have a dominant place in them, of course, but take a game such as Aliens vs. Predator, in which each of the three different races hold a diversity of mechanics to kill the other. They're all damage dealers, do it in different forms, and must be played in equally different styles to succeed. They can all heal, but do so in different ways, as well, and is usually pointless to do so since you're almost always dead within seconds. If anything, Aliens vs. Predator is the perfect match-up between a Role Playing Game (there's no way around it, you gotta play differently for each race) and a shooter. A game, then, can be balanced purely around DPS; RPG-styled ones like Devil May Cry or whatever could also serve as an example.

    That there is a need for symmetry in game design (if you can take hit points away you must also be able to give them) is only a comfortable illusion. I do believe that maybe someday there will be a "brilliant designer" that will effectively breach the concept. It's just that it's a lot harder to do than what you, who are totally correct in doing so, say has already reached such a state of perfection. Well, now that it's perfect and tyrannical, it's the exact moment and opportunity to be taken down. :)

     

    Combat, by any terms, whether in a game or real life is precisely as I described. Death is involved, which means people get injured, and die. Once either key locations or sufficient loss of life on one side has occurred, wars cease. Now, this is a grave simplification of the matter, because there are many tactics involved with combat, but ultimately it boils down to 3 concepts:

    Having a main force that occupies the attention and abilities of an opposing force, a flanking body that strikes decisively, and a way to restore the bodies lost in conflict (recruitment etc). Whether on a grand scale or a individual scale, you need to be able to withstand harm, while dealing it, and to recover somehow to be back at your best for the next conflict.

    FPS establish the baseline so that there is no 'two sides' to a single coin (the symmetry you spoke of) *during combat* but yet, out of combat people rez? That's masked 'healing'- the restoration of hit points. Besides, even if there were no restoration of hit points of any sort, would people play a game such as this? It's got very limited playability much less re-playability if restoration never occurred. Who wants a 2D game when 3D is just as easily developed? The reason why is that you break the most simple form that already exists- just like an atom is the last element holding the properties that make up its identity.

    Your example of wits could easily be painted with other names for the variables. A insult is an attack, there exists somewhere the ability to withstand insults, and somewhere the ability to restore oneself to 'full pride' I'm more than assuming. The ability to turn around an insult is nothing more than a counter-attack.

     

    Your rebuttals are ambitious, but don't provide any fresh insight because the design exists in its most simplified form already.

    That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
    We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
    So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
    - MMO_Doubter

  • nutsoddsnutsodds Member Posts: 89

    Hi!

    I agree with you,because of that i recommend to take a look at a new game "Xsyon 2010" it will be listed soon here,in fact all the information was sent.It has no kill rats,no delivery quest,no oversize armor or weaponery,it has new characters look,and new features for a mmo.Soon the web will be improve with more information.

     

    Thanks!

  • nutsoddsnutsodds Member Posts: 89

    Sorry the name is "Xsyon 2012"... cya

  • HarkkumHarkkum Member Posts: 180
    Originally posted by Rekindle


    Kill x and Fedex are 2nd generation concepts brought upon by wow and  eq2.  EQ1, to my recollection, had no kill x. It did indeed have some fedex quests.
     
    I would add to the list "quests" in general.  Quests are lineral task driven content in lieu of true player freedom and are on the top 5 list of bad design elements.

     

    Sadly there is no alternative for the linear design. You can phatom from genuine freedom but reaching such in an MMO hardly is plausible in foreseeable future. If you provide solely the physical rules that apply and allow a free creation of everything, you will have certainly more freedom but it will still be freedom limited by the physical ruleset. Obviously, allowing players to interact with their MMO in Scribblenauts fashion or having something akin to Crayon Physics Deluxe would be fine and dandy but it would relatively fast litter the entire world with countless objects. If you are then again allowed to destroy what others create the incentive to create something monolithic quickly wanes. Therefore, having linear tasks and limiting rulesets is mandatory for MMOs for as long as there are no ways to pose social sanctions akin to real life. Then again, who would want to play a game that would resemble real life to the letter?

     

    Sandbox-design seems to be what everyone is raving for, but these MMO conventions listed by OP are actually there for a reason; they for the most part have been proved working and are, despite popular belief, rewarding and fun to most. You can mock generic quest design but their utmost purpose is likely to reward the player from the time spent, an element that is crucial for majority of people playing. If the sole purpose of a game is to grant its players with freedom it at the same time strips the game from any tangible goals, much like Noby Noby Boy. And even it has a goal of a sort that is collective, something which fights against your ideal of freedom. The imaginary heights of freedom that you think would derive from stripping the games from any pre-generated content is too immaterial for most: Why should I invest time on an online environment if it isn't rewarding and tangible on both short- and long-term? Kill X quests as well as Fed Ex quests fulfill both of these goals and that's why their position isn't endangered by more innovative designs any time soon.

  • erictlewiserictlewis Member UncommonPosts: 3,021

    A good list

    I was laughing so hard about the 10 rats.  I mean most MMO's have kill x number of this or that, and its a standard in all of them.

    The fedx one I have to agree with.  I would love to use this example of how silly it can get.  While I read the part they use it to send you to the next location sometimes that is not the fact.   In SOM in lotro there is a quest that you get when you get to ost galath the next area past haunted in.  This quest is timed and requris you to go back to the haunted in,  now this is just the area that yo completed and moved on from, and they send you backwards,  Im like wtf should they not send you to from the haunted in to ost galath.   There were 2 quests already at haunted inthat send you to the locations that you need to go next, and then they send you back.  Lotro excells at the backwards fedx delivery system.

     

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,551

    The only design that may be over used but is not really done properly is the tank n Spank.

    This is because 99% of the games are solo,how can you say a game utilizes a certain aspect if it is just solo players running around?There is ONLY one game right now that promotes the TRUE Tank and spank theory and that is FFXI.All the other games only call for it in their cheap instance designs.One thing about FFXI however is the tank n spank is not locked in,to the creative players ,the game does allow for various combination of game play,it is just best suited to using the Tank N spank,because it utilizes a SUPPORT role design,rather than a ME ME design.

    Also what FFXI does different is the go fetch 10 rats design of questing.It is all done utilizing a favor system,or a rank system is a better term.You do not go fetch 10 rats for some ridiculously lame XP reward,nor will you get 10 shiny gold pieces,so although the game might ask the same of you it is not for the same reasons.

    I have no problem with Fantasy,because that is what it is,you cannot go around expecting to change definitions of genres.It would be like saying i am tired of hockey sticks in Hockey,or tired of baseball bats in Baseball,it is what it is and should not be changed.

    Levels

    Yes this part has been done the same in all games,i have no problem with levels IF they were treated like AGE,witch is actually the way it is designed but not implemented.Levels were meant to be a measuring stick on age,but players do not age,they just get new spells and abilities,this again is done poorly,players should always EARN abilities.I mean when you learn something in real life,you don't learn it just because you had a new birthday lol,otherwise we would all be Einstein's at the age of 40.SO yes i agree levels is way over used and improperly,and guess what?Square is going to remove them from FFXIV,so again Square shows they think a little smarter or outside the bubble than the rest of the SOE followers.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • erictlewiserictlewis Member UncommonPosts: 3,021
    Originally posted by Wizardry


    The only design that may be over used but is not really done properly is the tank n Spank.
    This is because 99% of the games are solo,how can you say a game utilizes a certain aspect if it is just solo players running around?There is ONLY one game right now that promotes the TRUE Tank and spank theory and that is FFXI.All the other games only call for it in their cheap instance designs.One thing about FFXI however is the tank n spank is not locked in,to the creative players ,the game does allow for various combination of game play,it is just best suited to using the Tank N spank,because it utilizes a SUPPORT role design,rather than a ME ME design.
    Also what FFXI does different is the go fetch 10 rats design of questing.It is all done utilizing a favor system,or a rank system is a better term.You do not go fetch 10 rats for some ridiculously lame XP reward,nor will you get 10 shiny gold pieces,so although the game might ask the same of you it is not for the same reasons.
    I have no problem with Fantasy,because that is what it is,you cannot go around expecting to change definitions of genres.It would be like saying i am tired of hockey sticks in Hockey,or tired of baseball bats in Baseball,it is what it is and should not be changed.
    Levels
    Yes this part has been done the same in all games,i have no problem with levels IF they were treated like AGE,witch is actually the way it is designed but not implemented.Levels were meant to be a measuring stick on age,but players do not age,they just get new spells and abilities,this again is done poorly,players should always EARN abilities.I mean when you learn something in real life,you don't learn it just because you had a new birthday lol,otherwise we would all be Einstein's at the age of 40.SO yes i agree levels is way over used and improperly,and guess what?Square is going to remove them from FFXIV,so again Square shows they think a little smarter or outside the bubble than the rest of the SOE followers.



     

    It is not only SOE that uses level, lets not forget wow, STO, CO, COX, any Tubine game.  Just saying SOE is just but one of many almost the entire game comunity uses levels.

  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,037

    I agree with the writer. I find #6 Holy Trinity setup and #3 Oversized gear the most annoying.

    Atm Im playing Fallen Earth, and while it has the kill x quests and fed ex quests. At least it takes a somewhat approach to the intro tutorial. For some players so new that they actually ask in the help channel if its a bug that they start as a level 40 lol.

    Fallen Earth :

    #7 Mutated Chickens replace the rats in FE. But the intro tutorial doesnt include this, but is actually a nice story. The extended tutorial after that included the kill x quests though. On the other hand, its also one of the few tutorials Ive played that actually gives you very usefull information. It is very easy to pick out the people in help chat who skipped that tutorial :)

    #6 FE is classless, so anything is possible, even a tank, spank or heal class if you really would like that. But most players create effective hybrid toons.

    #5 FED-EX quests, yep definately in FE.

    #4 Post apocalyptic setting.

    #3 Normal sized gear. Although some are still a little too much. Like a cemented pole lol. No way that anyone would be able to handle it like that in real life. But crossbows, pistols, swords, rifles and your armour etc are normal sized.

    #2 FE has levels. But players are more interested in AP. Which you spend in the skills and stats. You get 2 AP every 10th of a level. They dont only come from levelling, but also in the form of extra AP from certain questchains. It basically makes players go all over the world and also come back to finish some storylines. Which are nicely written in FE btw.

    #1 Acronyms. Yes, you will always see them in any form of chat in games. Personally I dont like the acronyms for places/dungeons in a game. You can notice in chat that FE has a fair share of RP'ers. They tend to write in nice full sentences (which I dont btw).  Which is kind of amazing to see after playing a game where many players dont even know when to use their, they're or there.

  • mCalvertmCalvert Member CommonPosts: 1,283

    Here is one that was missed: slash commands. ie, /sit, /say, /sitspin. This is not a MUDD or C++ programing class. I also hate the chat system in most WOW cookie cutter MMOs, and lack of built in voice coms. Another place where EVE has broken free from the mold.

  • chromekatanachromekatana Member Posts: 36

      Good list.  

     

     About the acronyms,I think that they are overused but should be had. Would you like to see people type out things like " Have you tried out that new Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game called "XX" yet?".  Rather then not have them, it would be nice if you didn't see your chat box filled with them.  So It could probably be annoying with and without acronyms...

     

    About Levels.  I don't know how they could exactly take this out of an RPG game... but they could do it differently to at least make it seem different. Like, if you see an level 60 "Y" you should think " Oh,that must mean he has done "Z" quest solo" not " He must have grinded on "V" mobs".

     

     I like the over-sized weapons(Don't like big armour). It gives you the feel of your character being more wielding a weapon that big. Though, I do agree it is overused and they should make the smaller weapons just as good looking as the big two-handed swords,Axes,Scythes etc.

     

     I hate the Fed-ex like quest. Just like you mentioned,I'm not going to skip it because I'm just not. Takes loads of time and unless you have the option of role-playing as a delivery-boy, you should not have these quest. I also know that they like to lead you to new places. But you shouldn't have an quest to want to go somewhere a little farther out then where you normally go. You should make the player want to go there by  themselves.

     

    I wonder if there are anyway to actually get rid of the Trinity. Even in an classless game, you could still be an "Healer","DPS" or "Tank".

     Ah, the old "Kill ten Rats" quest-type. Really don't have anything to say about this,other then it is overused. 

     

     [quote][i]Originally posted by pojung[/i] [quote][i]Originally posted by maplestone[/i] [quote]Originally posted by pojung Levels referenced a degree of skill, veteranship. The act of going from lv9 to lv10 wasn't a guarantee. When it's a guarantee, the levels themselves hold no meaning. They're abstract, and more like milemarkers. The US military offers the ranks of E1 through E4 as guarantees. But there is no guarantee in going from E4 to E5, although most do given sufficient time. There is less guarantee, and less actually do, go from E5 to E6 etc etc. Each number holds a significance. Just like in PnP DnD where rounding a corner and meeting an ogre's bash could potentially put you under at lv8 and you never see lv9. Actually going up in level holds significance. [/quote] Hmm ... you are right that we may end up talking past each other.  But I'd like to try to pursue this a little further ... Normally when I see people make the "Incredibles argument" (if everyone is special then nobody is special), there's an implicit assumption that the person making the argument is one of those special people and that nobody else deserves the highest ranking in the game. But it sounds like you're talking more about facing the risk of permadeath (or at least a cap you risk hitting that slows a character's progress to a stall)? I do think that there is a niche out there for a game where you play a guild rather than a single character - and each adventure is a red shirt from your guild who gets to have a nice little career, but is doomed to eventually meet a grisly fate or retire on a comfortable pension.  If you ever played the old XCOM game, I thought that was a wonderful squad-level game where you could get quite attached to individual characters and their advancement through the ranks, but they were all ultimately expendable and even your most experienced merc could get blown to bits by a random plasma blast to the head while your game as a whole continued on. [/quote]   2. Perma-death is an example of 1 limiter. You have 3 concepts at play: event-oriented (kill 10 rats), time-oriented (kill rats for 10min) and skill-oriented (the merging of an event with a time: kill 10 rats inside of 10min). These 3 concepts need to be orchestrated to enforce a value upon the number in question. If getting to lv10 required merely killing a total of 100 rats, of which each level required 10 rats, all of your 'levels' are void of purpose because there is nothing about them that is demanding. You need a standard. That's what levels reflect, so that is what they should require. Now, I say 'reflect' but perhaps it would be more suitable to state 'reflected'. Risk is a derivative of standards. Achievements should require standards. These standards should involve risks in undertaking. [/quote]  

     

     

     

     I agree with this. "Level" in an MMO does not show or reflect someone's skill,abilities(etc.)  Being at the Level cap should mean that your one to be feared.

     

     

  • clone10thclone10th Member Posts: 7

    This article is so true, especially with 'Kill the rats'. Of all the mmorpg's I've played, KTR quests is what turns me off from playing them. And if you think killing 10 rats was bad enough than go take a look at Nexon's Maple Story. I swear 90% of that game is made up of KTR quests.  And what really drives you insane about these quests is that the rewards you recieve are not gratifying enough. It's mmo's like that which makes me want to 'Kill the Devs'. Seriously, couldn't they have come up with something better?

    And then there are the levels. I always dreaded the long hours of exp grinding and its worst when that number means alot in a competitive gameplay, however, all mmorpg's can't do without some form of this aspect. One of the best solution to this that i've seen is a classless-skill based system, where what matters is your skills and your ability to utilize those skills efficiently. One of the best example of this is: Mabinogi. I don't want to go deep into detail about their system but it doesn't remove the dependency on leveling up. However, it does make leveling more gratifying compared to a dreaded constant grinding.

  • eritheerithe Member Posts: 8

    Acronyms are with us forever, unfortunately.  The players come up with them, usually, and that's not something the game designers can control.  So ... eh.

     

    I -like- fantasy games.   I want a fantasy game that isn't a pita to play.   Reeeeeeeeally getting tired of that showing up on lists everywhere on MMORPG lately.   Yes, we get it, some people want something different.  Oh! Do I see a TON of sci fi genre games coming up on the horizon?   Yes?   There you go.   Can we stop bashing people's genre choices now?

     

    I definitely agree on the quest comments.  I think you could combine the Kill 10 rats and the Fed Ex quests into one giant complaint.   I think, in the end, what I want more of are quests that tell coherent stories.   That seems to be rare in ALL the games except maybe LOTR Online.

  • maplestonemaplestone Member UncommonPosts: 3,099
    Originally posted by pojung



    1. You are absolutely correct with your label of 'incredible' argument. In a world of black and white, I can wear red to 'stand out'. If everyone else wears red, it no longer stands out. Etc etc etc. Your assumption is halfway there. I'd label myself as an 'elite who supports the rank of highest elite'. My RL history is one of 97 percentile's during high school and college, national-level swimming, and in the MMO ranks, a 30th highest warrior dps posting on Brut. Meaning: I know what it takes to succeed, and I know the sacrifice and dedication involved, 'swim in the finals but don't make the podium'.

    But would you pay to play a game where the most you could achieve was 2nd level while other people went around at 30th?  If you want to stand out, that means you need a player base willing to pay to be lorded over.   So I don't want to hear this idea from people who expect they will fall into the 97th percentile - there's only a business model if it's people who are in the 3rd percentile who see fun in it.

  • RegenRegen Member Posts: 53

    #1: Acronyms

    Pretty useful in games to speed up chatting.

    However, i dont really see why people have to use acronyms when they have the time.

     

    For instance, why dont MMORPG.com enforce plain speech? Its not like its verry hard.

    A couple of extra lines in http://www.mmorpg.com/disclaimers.cfm#conduct

    Spell out youre words!

    Avoid useage of acronyms, slang and leetspeak. Plain and simple.

    Why should we need a "dictionary" to understand each other, just becouse people cant spell out theyre words?

    Combine leetspeak and acronyms and things get messy.

     

    Alternately add a rule like spelling out the words initialy in a post and adding the acronym in parentheses.

    You may then use the acronym if you desire.

    image

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/261448/page/5


    "I'd just like to see more games that focus on the world, and giving the people in it more of a role, im tired of these constant single player games that you can walk around with millions of people."


    - Parsalin

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Member Posts: 2,697
    Originally posted by Regen


    #1: Acronyms
    Pretty useful in games to speed up chatting.
    However, i dont really see why people have to use acronyms when they have the time.
     
    For instance, why dont MMORPG.com enforce plain speech? Its not like its verry hard.
    A couple of extra lines in http://www.mmorpg.com/disclaimers.cfm#conduct
    Spell out youre words!


    Avoid useage of acronyms, slang and leetspeak. Plain and simple.
    Why should we need a "dictionary" to understand each other, just becouse people cant spell out theyre words?
    Combine leetspeak and acronyms and things get messy.
     
    Alternately add a rule like spelling out the words initialy in a post and adding the acronym in parentheses.
    You may then use the acronym if you desire.

    If that's going to be the rule we better force them to make the website www.massivelymultiplayerroleplayinggameonline.com so that we don't use any Acronyms at all.

     

    Just to also be clear I moved the position of online so no one would input it and get to the probably unsafe site that actually has the acronym spelled out.

     

  • kzaskekzaske Member UncommonPosts: 518

    I agree with most of Mr. Murphy’s article and hope that Mr. Murphy takes the time to list some alternatives to the offensive “kill ten rats” or “fed-ex” style quests.

    I don’t really mind number 1 as most acronyms are easy to follow. What I mind most is “Leet Speak.” I do not want to count the number of times I seen the number four (4) uses as a replacement for “For” or the letter U uses in place of you. Normally if a member of a group I am putting together starts using the “Leet Speak” I kick them. I have neither the time or inclination to figure out what they are trying to say. When they tell me is faster to type using Leet, I tell them to learn to type.

    I agree with most of the article.  I really hope that Mr. Murphy takes the time to list some alter

  • DeivosDeivos Member EpicPosts: 3,692
    Originally posted by Regen


    #1: Acronyms
    Pretty useful in games to speed up chatting.
    However, i dont really see why people have to use acronyms when they have the time.
     
    For instance, why dont MMORPG.com enforce plain speech? Its not like its verry hard.
    A couple of extra lines in http://www.mmorpg.com/disclaimers.cfm#conduct
    Spell out youre words!


    Avoid useage of acronyms, slang and leetspeak. Plain and simple.
    Why should we need a "dictionary" to understand each other, just becouse people cant spell out theyre words?
    Combine leetspeak and acronyms and things get messy.
     
    Alternately add a rule like spelling out the words initialy in a post and adding the acronym in parentheses.
    You may then use the acronym if you desire.

     

    usage, your, don't, very, because, initially, they're (though should be their)

     

    capitalization

     

    Getting nit-picky about the use of acronyms, slang, colloquialisms, and 'leetspeak' opens one to the need to be punctual in one's preferred style of communication.

     

    Though I'm just being a twit, so you can ignore this.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin

  • pojungpojung Member Posts: 810
    Originally posted by maplestone

    Originally posted by pojung



    1. You are absolutely correct with your label of 'incredible' argument. In a world of black and white, I can wear red to 'stand out'. If everyone else wears red, it no longer stands out. Etc etc etc. Your assumption is halfway there. I'd label myself as an 'elite who supports the rank of highest elite'. My RL history is one of 97 percentile's during high school and college, national-level swimming, and in the MMO ranks, a 30th highest warrior dps posting on Brut. Meaning: I know what it takes to succeed, and I know the sacrifice and dedication involved, 'swim in the finals but don't make the podium'.

    But would you pay to play a game where the most you could achieve was 2nd level while other people went around at 30th?  If you want to stand out, that means you need a player base willing to pay to be lorded over.   So I don't want to hear this idea from people who expect they will fall into the 97th percentile - there's only a business model if it's people who are in the 3rd percentile who see fun in it.



     

    You missed the concept. It's not about greed from the top down, in desire of establishing dominion, and nor is it greed from the bottom up, wishing for something they don't have.

    It's about comfort with self. Each level has a standard associated with it. What I achieve is mine. It matters not that there is someone higher, and matters not that someone is lower.

    To be able to say 'I'm a level 10, which means I'm proven under circumstances x, y, z.'

     

    The most I am able to achieve based on my own limitations is the standard. Standing out doesn't mean being at the top. Standing out means being able to call a niche home. All too often this gets confused with a progressive, goal-oriented society as 'being the best' [in a pool of many].

    The percentile rating was viewed from an angle of greed. It's not about where I place. It's about knowing that no matter how hard I worked, I couldn't break into a podium on non-regional level. It establishes that I know how to work hard, how working hard pays off, but *that I understand not everything is given, and there are times the cards fall (or might always fall) against me*. It's worthless to ask someone in the lowest 3 percentile the values of work or reward. The system is modelled by the most stringent of factors, and those factors are understood by those at the highest level. It's not elitism, although often viewed as such by those who have never achieved self-satisfication with the model they argue.

     

    TLDR: I absolutely would play a model where I am limited to only being 'one of the joes' as it were. So long as the limiter is myself, and not the system. Otherwise, the system is rigged. Example? I can't fire rounds downrange to save my life, despite many coaching sessions on it. At best I'm a 75% shot with a 5.56 round. I've seen first-time shooters pick up a rifle and nail 95%+ like they've been doing it all their life. I'm fine with that. But I'm fine with it because I understand the value in the system and that the 'fault' is my own for not performing. I was afforded this understanding through first being 'successful' in many other areas in life. But it is a *selfless* point of view to understand a system needs standards that aren't achieveable by all, and a *selfish* one to suggest it should. This isn't evident at first glance, and to many, never becomes apparent at all.

    That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
    We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
    So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
    - MMO_Doubter

  • VadenVaden Member UncommonPosts: 145

    Well I fully agree with all the numbers on ur kount down as well with many of the replies made to it.

     

    I'll focus on the leveling one though. Idling over the lil number next to ur avatar has lead to some sorry gaming over time. They are kalled GrindFests which play a big part in the drawn out "Kill # of <monster> and return to <npc>".

    The best fix I've seen for this so far is a Chart System where u spend points to unlock new skills. I like the Circle charts but some are Tree like.

     

    MY ADDITION: Ok so why did I focus on this one in place of others? Well simply put, I had another idea for the Skill Chart... 1) Have quest only mission that'll unlock other tiers, something special or unique. 2) Have Skills that you kan unlock that'll let u wear different or better types of armor ...that alone is enough to change the leveling and gaming word. Atleast in the Grind/Leveling department.

    As for Quests. I say add in more crafting themes. Making ur owe stuff is always fun and u feel like u put ur own name on it. In some games it is on it :)

    Games I've Played: SilkRoad, Flyff, NeoCron, PlanetSide, Rapplez, UpshiftRacer, Drift City, TB, Kwonho, ArchLord, AoA, Exteel, WolfTeam, Shaiyan, WoKF, FFXIV, STO, KoTR, ESO, Defiance, Mabinogi

    Games I'm Playing: Warframe/STO

    Games I'm Pondering: The Secret World

  • iank240iank240 Member Posts: 170

    Interesting and makes me think what will happen in the next ten years of Massively multiplayer online role-playing games.

    Will the style/genre really change much.............

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