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A Star Trek Fanatic on STO
Akimitsu18
Member Posts: 17
Warning: be prepared for a mass of text. If you feel the need to reply, please read all of it.
I love Star Trek. I've grown up watching it. There is no IP or fictional...anything that I love more than this franchise. In my opinion Star Trek is more than just a collection of TV shows, movies and games; it's a world changing force. Anyone connected at all to cell phones, personal computers or non-invasive medical imaging can thank Star Trek for a great deal, even if they're not fans.
So, when I first heard about Star Trek being turned into an MMO, I was extatic. This was years ago when Perpetual was at the helm. I was even more excited when I learned about their visionary designs for the game. It really felt like they were building their game from a firm basis of Trek.
I looked at their flash demos of their LCARS display, how the player operating the engineering station could manipulate power levels, reroute to bypass damaged systems, and all the things I know and love from Geordi, B'Elanna and Miles O'Brien (I'd add Scotty, but he didn't do much LCARSing).
Then, disaster. Perpetual lost STO, and I thought the game was done for. But then Cryptic took up the helm, and I allowed myself a to hope a bit more. That hope waned, however, as time passed and they made their new design directions apparent on their website.
Now, with the game released, I can't help but feel sorely disappointed and cheated with what's happened to, potentially, the only chance Star Trek would have to shine in the online stage.
I've noticed posts on these forums where the opinions stated are things to the effect of "this game is not for everyone." Truly that is a correct statement, but in this case it's more of a cop-out; an attempt to protect a weak position by citing a commonly known saying in the hopes that someone won't read too far into it. The game isn't for everyone, but there is a very defined group that the game is designed for: Star Trek fans. Star Trek is for Star Trek fans.
I can imagine that this might not be a popular sentiment. I still believe it to be correct, and I would defend that position with more...fervour than I would for a mere opinion. Why? Well, to be sure, Star Trek was not designed to be a show simply appealing to the masses. It was developed to show Roddenberry's vision, which was complex, complete, and very much unique. His vision detailed a bright future of humanity, where the common problems of today have been overcome, and humanity is able to look upon future problems with greater wisdom learned from the lessons that we are now suffering through.
What does this mean in more specific terms? Well, hopefully you will be able to garner than from my semi-review of STO. A few of the simpler points would be: Star Trek showcased a focus on exploration and diplomacy. It also centered heavily around the good aspects of the human condition: adaptability, dignity, honor, humility.
Every character in Star Trek (at least the ones who were developed to this extent) had his own take on the nature of humanity. Every race was designed to show a different aspect of humanity (I dare someone to find them all. 
), and often times those conflicts and interactions between these races highlighted struggles we face within ourselves.
I've heard people complain about Star Trek, about how they seem so different than we are. No one listens to rock music or rap (except perhaps a few notable exceptions), a number of the series lack a number of personal issues and conflicts between the characters like we might expect to find in another TV show, and other things like that. I feel these things were all deliberate, especially in the likes of TNG, which was written by Gene Roddenberry to highlight a noticeable evolution in the human condition from the time of Kirk.
Alright, I don't really have a good segway into talking about STO, so I'll just get into it.
First Gripe: Exploration
When I think about what Star Trek needs, there are a few specific things that come to mind. First and foremost: space is big. A friend of mine just commented today, while we were watching Star Trek II, about how he is always amazed at how big Star Trek makes space feel. I couldn't agree with him more, and I believe the gameplay aspects of any large-scale (read: not an FPS, RTS or another type of game obviously not conducive to this environment) Star Trek game need to reflect this.
How does STO compare to this? Honestly, this is completely non-existent. First of all, the entirety of the game world is a proverbial trip-around the block, and you can freely travel from anywhere to anywhere with very little risk to yourself. Travelling from Federation space to Klingon space takes all of about 5 minutes, and every feature you pass assaults you with light and flash like a billboard in Vegas. So much blue! And what is with that map/grid plastered on the "floor" of space?
The constant zoning especially removes my sense of immersion in STO. I am firmly of the opinion that Star Trek should not be turned into a Theme Park, heavily instanced MMO. There are plenty of successful non-instanced, non/limited-zoning MMO methodologies from which to draw your inspiration. However, I do understand the reasoning behind the decision, but there are better ways to accomplish this. Putting all the sectors into blocks of three-in-a-row was a bad move. They should have made the areas you can physically travel through larger. It's 2010, limiting your overworld, non-combat instances to 40 players is not necessary even if you're trying to limit server-costs.
Second Gripe: Ships
My second major problem with the game is the fact that you can only have one player per ship. I see no problem with enabling one player to pilot a ship (in fact, given the uncertain state of the internet at all times, this is necessary), however turning it into the only option was a bad move.
One of the main things Star Trek instilled in its audiences was the sense of their ship as a community. The ship was not a single entity performing actions so much as it was a collection of brilliant and talented professionals working as hard as they can to keep their home in working order.
The movies and episodes of Trek were chock full of examples of the many, many things every different crewmember contributed, and many of these were in enough detail that they could be sensibly translated into gameplay.
I'll give a few examples of things I would have pushed for, were I a developer for Cryptic. Allow players the opportunity to join other players on their ships, and take part in a battle this way by manning a bridge console, or fighting off boarders, etc. Star Trek is an IP that would lend itself well to non-violent gameplay aspects.
I, personally, would love to be an engineer. I would sit at a station on the bridge or in engineering and look at my LCARS display showing me my warp reactor power readings, my aux power, emergency batteries. I could look at a power-flow diagram of my ship as a whole, rerouting to bypass damaged systems. I could start shutting down systems if there's not enough power to go around. I could go on. Then I could talk about Tactical, Ops, Helm, the Doctor, and the Captain.
What we get instead: You have 4 power bars, representing weapons, shields, engines and aux power. You can slide these bars up and down to change their respective levels, and the performance of your ship thus changes.
I understand not everyone would want to share ship-flying with other players, and indeed they would not be forced to. However, Star Trek is perfectly suited to that sort of gameplay, and the online venue is perfectly suited to those sorts of cooperation between players. This was a massive opportunity, one that I believe the potential buyers of STO would have reacted favorably towards by and large.
Third Gripe: Depthless non-combat content
This focuses on the supposed "non-combat" focused missions that were -supposed- to represent a change in standard MMO fare. They have not succeeded in this, in my opinion. Putting aside the fact that 99% of content is combat oriented, the amount of non-combat content is lackluster... and that's the nicest word I can think of for it.
Why do I say this? Well, the extent of every item of non-combat gameplay I've seen is going up to some object somewhere and hitting F. That's it. Maybe you wait for a little bar to finish, but nothing else. I find it anomolous to the extreme that this is so simple. Afterall, the sheer wealth of non-combat situations in Star Trek, with very detailed descriptions of what they're doing and how. To quote Bones, "For God's Sakes Jim..." the tv shows could have been a blueprints for intriguing puzzle and exploration-based gameplay.
Here's what I mean. Aside from the "press F and wait" mechanic, You never use your Tricorder. You never change a single setting on your phaser. You never take apart any of your equipment to use the parts to fix anything. You never scan anything to try and figure out what it is, and then have to deal with it because it's dangerous or valuable. You never have to figure anything out at all, the instructions -literally- tell you every single button you need to press at all times to solve any sort of puzzle or figure your way out of any situation.
I remember a mission where I had to find the debris from a downed shuttle or probe. Could I pull out my tricorder and sift through filter settings to weed out conflicting signals so I can get a clear heading and distance? No, I had to randomly run around a small landscape until I saw brightly flashing 3D models, then I had to go up to them and press F.
Fourth Gripe: Missions as a whole
Cryptic had a wonderful opportunity with their proposed episode-style missions content. They could have introduced strong narratives supporting widely varied and intriguing gameplay elements. I can imagine navigating by tricorder to find survivors in a sand-storm because I can't see. I can imagine blowing apart rocks in a cave because we need to evade pursuing enemy forces.
Instead, they just use it as a thin veil that strings together standard, boring MMO quest-types in loosely contrived story arcs. There's little to no depth anywhere to be seen in this content, and whatever story they're telling is lost behind such an obtrusive and unintuitive presentation (flow and immersion breaking dialog boxes that take entirely too long to load, and that force you to stop playing for a moment, even in the heat of battle).
Every mission can be broken down into: kill everything that you're capable of shooting, press F on everything else.
Fifth Gripe: The Borg
If you are one of those people that hate Star Trek Voyager because they made the Borg seem like wussies, then I cannot fathom how you do not loathe the very existence of this game. Sure, that's an extreme statement, but let me be perfectly clear on how horrible the Borg are in this game.
First off: they do not look good. Again, there is so much official content on the Borg, that you don't even need to do concept art to make them look good. And if you think that Cryptic absolutely needed to take artistic license in anything about STO, I would disagree with you. If Cryptic instead decided to reproduce every aesthetic aspect of the Borg as faithfully as they possibly could, I challenge you to find a player who would complain. Well, I somewhat take that back: every opinion, no matter how asinine, is held by someone... I think that's the only thing everyone can agree on.
Second off: They do not play good. Bad grammar aside, right from the get go you are told that the Borg aren't assimilating anyone. What? If they're not assimilating, they're not the Borg. I know there was that splinter group with Lore and yadda yadda, but that was an isolated incident that resulted in that group no longer being a part of the greater whole. Assimilation is the one, singular aspect of the Borg that defines them; that makes them scary as villains and dangerous as foes. Every other power they possess is thanks to their ability to assimilate. I don't think I need to reinforce my point anymore on that.
Once again, this is a design decision I find to be anomolous. Afterall, there is no death penalty in this game, meaning no reason to fear being killed or assimilated, 'cause you can just blink yourself back to a checkpoint with almost no loss of progress whatsoever. Why can't I be assimilated, and then be pitted against my NPC allies or fellow players? I can get some kind of points, perhaps even a Borg alter-ego that levels up according to kills I perform while borgified. When I die, I just respawn as my normal self and resume like normal. There'd be no risk of griefing, because they are Borg... I mean, come on. They're nigh-unstoppable on the best of days. They outgun, outnumber and out-tech every other force in the Galaxy.
conclusion:
By this point, I'm sure even those among you with an iron-stomach for essays have had enough, so I'll keep this piece a bit shorter. Basically, I feel that STO represents another sub-par attempt at turning Star Trek into a game. I feel this game points out a glaring lack of consideration on the part of CBS for the Star Trek IP (paramount owned Star Trek during its successful years). I also feel that the developers at Cryptic have not given Star Trek the respect it deserves, and the faithfulness that Trek needs in order to capture what made the franchise a success in the first place. I don't think this game will have the staying power to keep players in it for the long-haul, so ultimately I believe this game will die before its time.
The last opinion I'll share is that I believe Star Trek is too big for a single MMO, no matter how good it is. Afterall, Star Wars will soon have two MMOs made for it. Here's hoping Trek gets another one years from now.
Comments
Very nicely written. Although Im not much of a Star Trek fan, I do know the TNG series well enough to agree with you on the exploration and solving mysteries parts. I was also hoping for playerteam controlled ships. I completely agree with what you wrote.
Too bad that once an ip like ST has been used for a MMO, there is little to no chance that a different company will use it again to create a MMO that you have in mind. Well, at least not for some years. This is my main issue with STO. A missed chance.
I completely agree with you. That, too, is the main reason I am so hurt at the way STO turned out. If I knew that in 5 or 6 years someone would want to make another Star Trek MMO, I would feel a bit better.
I to am a huge star trek fan and while I understand what you are trying to convey here, most of it is not possible to do in an mmo setting.
Look at all the STO series. Regardless of Genes vision, everyone of them are about 1 thing. The interaction between the bridge crew. you follow the stories of the bridge crew through out each season. This is not something that can even be remotely replicated in a video game. Even if you were to allow player run ships, your still not going to be replicating that setting, It just is not possible. Even with role playing, its not going to happen. This is the ultimate downfall of a star trek video game. Without that setting it will simply fall short in every ones eyes, no matter how they sugar coat it.
Lets take a look at some of your points.
First off, It appears that P2 never did anything more than those flash demos. From what has been posted, it appears they had done almost 0 coding in 5 years for the thing. They talked a great game but they didn't do squat. Thats the cold, sad, reality of it. If you feel you were cheated, you really should feel cheated by P2 not following through on their so called "vision" of the game. Again, a lot of talk with nothing to show for it. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that it appears P2 never had any real intention of releasing a ST game. Look at it this way, 5 years they were supposedly in the making, they supposedly kept shifting more and more people over to the ST part of their franchise and the only things we saw in 5 years was some screen shots and a couple flash animations. Sorry, but you and many others were completely suckered by that company.
It is no mere cop out. It is human nature. They could have spent 20 years making the game and some people still would not like it. And sadly, your wrong about your game is designed for statement. While they have been taking star trek fans in consideration, they have stated multiple times that this game was for the masses, Not just star trek fans.
This is almost an impossible thing to do in a video game not to even get into the whole MMO portion of it. This goes right back to the fact the shows was all about how the bridge crew interacted with each other.
Now I wont deny the exploration that we all think about is not there. The problem with space is that it is ultimately BORING. Its huge, its vast and in most of it, there is nothing there. Shortcuts were made to make space faster and easier to explore and get to. While to me, this is an acceptable compromise, I will agree that sector space could have been done differently and made a lot more better looking.
I will skip the second gripe of ships simply because that is an extremely personal preference and I don't have a problem with you or anyone wanting that option.
To be honest, I have yet to see any MMO put in a good diplomacy system. Vanguard is probably the closest that came to an "interesting" one but it still ultimately fails in this venue because, ultimately, in MMO's, YOU choices have no real meaning to the world you are playing in. Your choices only affect you on a superficial level consisting of what your wearing and what you have accumulated. Could they have made it more "interesting"? Yes, but ultimately it is nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Welcome to the world of MMO's. MMO's are not really a good place for real in depth questing. Especially those of today that practically draw a line to show you everywhere you have to go. Sadly, it is a downfall of MMO's in general and I don't think we will ever see this change, at least in our lifetimes.
Obviously you actually missed the story behind the borg being weak. Just like the ones that picard set free of the collective, these to are free borg that are disoriented and confused and ultimately not a threat because they are not in a collective any more. The Borg race you remember has actually advanced even further than the shows and are much meaner when you start getting much higher in the game.
And this is why I state that it is almost impossible for anyone to make a star trek game. Most of what needs to be in there, is just not possible at this time with our current tech. Until you can actually get that feeling of the human interaction between characters into the game, Star trek will not make a great game.
Now with that said. I think STO is a FUN game. It does give that feeling of star trek despite the many flaws that are there. I absolutely love all the star trek references to all of the earlier series. It really helps to bring you into the game more. For a project that has only been in dev for 2 years, I think they have done a fantastic job with what they have accomplished. I honestly believe that we can expect a lot more out of them in the coming years and that it is only going to get better and better.
The problem I am seeing with most of the people who want to gripe about STO is that, they can not accept cryptics version of star trek over their own preconceptions of what they wanted star trek to be. Sorry, nothing anyone can do about that. If you can look at STO as simply a star trek MMO, then you may be able to appreciate what it offers. And Hey, I am always up for more options, so if another company makes an ST MMO, I am sure I would give them a try to, but right now, I fully expect myself to be playing this one for a long time.
Like yourself i was hoping for a star trek mmorpg experience, but im not getting one. so i just have to face the facts and accept it for what it is, and thats a star(war) trek multiplayer action game...i do hope that they will listen to the trek fans and add more depth to exploration, add more non-combat content like diplomacy, problem solving, repair missions etc, and add more social content...but after they have added the content they've already said they will add, all i can can see coming is paid new race expansions (like romulans, cardassians, borg etc).
on the bright side(for me not cryptic), i think this will end up a game that i don't need to financially commit myself too, so i can play a couple of months, hit lvl cap, then go play something else for a few months, and come back when they add more content.
didnt read it but I think it could be probably summed up as:
Good effort, needs 6-12 months more work, see you then.
You, and me btw, wanted a Star Trek "world simulator" and we've got just a multiplayer game. That is the state of mmo developers, a genre that we all thought started many years ago with the mission of developing "worlds" and ended like this. Star Trek is much more that this shooter, it's about the future of humanity, socially, economically, ethically, technologically, etc.
I really suggest you to go read Star Trek books, review movies and enjoy TV series, the experience is much much better that playing just a simple (but fun in small doses) game for hours and hours and hours.
Perhaps, in the future, Cryptic will make some changes if more and more players demand another kind of approach to the game, althou the basics of the world, a really tiny universe, has already broken the premise of exploring a vast universe. This interview suggest some interesting bits: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=70875
To the OP - excellent post.
One disagreement - it can't die before its time, as it never should have lived (in this form) to begin with.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
We have been saying this for a long time now, but even the devs said STO is not just a game for the trekkies. Is this a surprise? No. Even by looking to the videos in YouTube you can tell where this game is headed. This is why devs avoid to publish gameplay videos as much as possible. They will show you the cinematics first and slowly some vague gameplay. They want you to at least buy the box. I understand that a ST fan would be very tempted in trying this game, but with a little bit of research about the devs, people should figure it out what to expect from them.
True, and as a Trek fan - I have decided not to buy the game at release. It is possible that the features I require will be added later, but I am not optimistic about that.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
"Combat Started"
/you use "Scroll Down Page"
/Thread receives 3 damage
/Thread hits you with "Massive Wall of Text"
/You receive 128931931 damage
/You died
I agree with most what the OP said. Why make a Star Trek game that does feel like Star Trek? Honestly, this game is a travesty. It fails the premise of Star Trek, which should be about exploration of both space and humanity. Not pew-pewing with beam weapons in a quest for better loot
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
I have many of the same concerns, that STO is not a traditional MMORPG with worlds to explore and multiple activities to do. It is more like a directed space shooter, a combat ship simulator. That can be fun in it's own right, but I am afraid anyone buying STO thinking they are buying a regular MMORPG will likely be disappointed.
My biggest complaint is that the Star Trek IP will now be off limits for anyone for a while; we will not see a fully implemented, quality Star Trek MMORPG for years.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
The game the OP describes would be a wonderful experience, and probably cost more to develop than any other before it, and appeal to a relatively small market. (Sorry ST Fans who play MMO's, you are actually a small minority)
A much larger target market are MMO players who like to shoot stuff, (see WOW) and that's the one that Cryptic aimed at with STO.
One day we may see a game as envisioned by the OP, but probably not until 2015 or even 2020.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
i agree with most of what the op said.
Especially the part about ships and crew.
can you imagine if you could have guild ships? where guilds could come together for raids, pvp, just for fun. where the each guild member could have a role and responsibility.
Guild leader as captain and the ship manned and operated by guildies. engineering, security, science, sickbay etc.
And then when the activities were over go back to their own little ships to improve skills, explore, quest. etc.
/sigh
Right, because this really is a single-player game in very confining maps and with a lobby system that enables a limited number of players on opposing factions to frag-fest each other until a death count of 20-40 or such; all without any lasting or contributing quality to your factions status, game-play, rewards or territory control for resources or dominance.
Yes; an elementary space shooter without mmorpg staples that have been fundamentals for several years.
Right, because this really is a single-player game in very confining maps and with a lobby system that enables a limited number of players on opposing factions to frag-fest each other until a death count of 20-40 or such; all without any lasting or contributing quality to your factions status, game-play, rewards or territory control for resources or dominance.
Yes; an elementary space shooter without mmorpg staples that have been fundamentals for several years.
However, the game can still be fun and good for a lot of people. As Kyleran pointed out, many of the same complaints were/are made about CoH, and I loved that game. I also enjoyed PoTBS a lot, and played quite a while. I don't see any reason why STO can't be successful.
I was disappointed in the beta, mainly because I *am* a Star Trek fanatic, and would have loved to see the IP get a regular MMORPG treatment.
There is one disturbing thing though, this new business model of charging a premium box price, a premium monthly fee, and still to have a cash shop for meaningful stuff. I don't like that. If they sell respecs, new abilities, or especially new zones, in the cash shop, that is a bad sign IMHO.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
Okay, and I'm back from a good night's sleep. And I see I have replies. Ooh, and I see they're not all arrayed against me, this is quite unusual.
For the most part, I'll be replying to you Doomsday, because you wrote the most to reply to. First off, I have two... I'll call them issues, with your reply. The first one is my fault, and I'll start with that.
I was misleading, I must admit, when I made my statements about what the intended audience for a Star Trek game is, I accidentally worded my OP to suggest that Cryptic had the intention of marketing the game for Star Trek fans. I know this is not the case. What I intended to write, more accurately, was that the nature of Star Trek demands that any games made using its IP must be made with Star Trek fans in mind first, because every essence of what Star Trek is, and what it should continue to be, makes no apologies for the fact that it's never been a show designed to appeal to the masses. Gene Roddenberry had a vision, not to get as many viewers as possible, but to show a certain type of world, and to not make compromises on any aspect of it for the good of viewership. And that is how Star Trek inspired entire generations of scientists, computer experts and inventors.
So my argument was not about what the intentions of Cryptic may or may not be, but instead represented my opinion on whether or not they made the right choice. I am of the opinion that if they would have made the Star Trek MMO using the same intentions as I described for Gene above, they would have had a commercial and financial success greater than what they will experience, according to my layman's predictions. I don't actually know, nor can I prove it, except to say that TOS and TNG were inspirational and are still popular years and years later, because Gene did not compromise his vision. DS9, VOY and ENT have shown continued decline in viewer popularity as they continued to stray from Gene's vision, with ENT being cancelled early.
My second issue with your reply to mine has to do with the fact that you argued against some of my points, but not the others. The other points I in my OP I could now quote from, if I wanted to, and that would be sufficient to argue against your reply. For example, numerous times you say something to the effect of 'this can't be done in an MMO," or "welcome to the world of MMOs." First, I gave very specific examples of gameplay elements that could be added to improve STO and keep it in line with what Star Trek is all about, and I actually had to cut my rant short in these areas, because I could have easily doubled the length of my OP. You didn't mention a single one, yet continue to maintain that it would not be possible to introduce gameplay elements like I would want.
Second, I'm disappointed with the manner in which you chose to argue against me. The word "preconception" carries with it many implications. Among them, it suggests that it's wrong for me to have an idea of what the game should really be. Now, I would never respect an opinion of anyone if they didn't like something, unless they had an idea of how to make it better. It's a completely natural progression, to go from disappointment on a concept to improvement upon it. Any time I dislike anything, I have ideas on how it could be made better. That's who I am. And yes, I am currently studying on the path to getting a job in game design.
I believe the game can be made much, much better. By this reasoning, I argue that the game is currently bad. The reason I believe the game is bad, is because the ways in which it can be made better are so obvious that I am convinced they consciously decided not to implement similar ideas, and they wanted their game to be literally a combat simulator with lackluster non-combat gameplay.
This second issue of mine really rather grates on me, because I really want to point out how glaring, obvious and anomolous the gameplay issues are. Do you really think it's okay for a game to require only that you press "F" to accomplish every single non-combat goal? This isn't a casual game, it does not bode well for gameplay to have elements this alarmingly simple and depthless. Unfortunately, because you didn't reply to that part of my post, everything I've just said is really reiteration and reinforcement of my own post, when I should instead be countering some kind of argument to my points.
Now, as for the other replies... hm.
I don't believe STO requires any months of work fixing. I believe it needs to be trashed, and the IP handed to another company. In fact, I don't believe CBS should be the controlling interest of Star Trek, in any way. It's obvious that this game was just an attempt by CBS to get cash. I mean, their deadline was 2 years. Who the hell gives a company 2 years to complete a game in this day and age? Normally, when a game design is dropped by one company and picked up by another, the amount of time needed to make the game is extended by years to allow the new company a reasonable amount of time to make the game. So, CBS has no respect for Star Trek.
To be completely realistic, Star Trek should not be made into an MMO, not until it can be funded by a group that cares for the integrity of the franchise, and developed by a group willing to put in the proper time and effort to make a truly great product. With Gene having been dead now for a while and Paramount dropping Star Trek, that isn't going to happen. I hate to say it, but Star Trek is dead. I doubt there's going to be any new material made for it (besides maybe books) that have any respect for what Star Trek really is. Look at the new movie. They dropped the true essence of Star Trek, shamelessly reproduced/messed with the material, and frankensteined out a monster coldly calculated to sell lots of movie tickets with big explosions and sex and Beastie Boys.
Just to reiterate one last thing, I hold the opinion that Star Trek materials designed with the best intentions of Star Trek in mind, are the most financially and commercially successful. This means, when Gene made TNG, and when he put his creative hands into the mold of that show, he didn't compromise it to add petty differences in the crew so people could identify with them, and yadda yadda. He created a world that is completely alien to what we knew in the world around us when the show first aired, but it was very self-consistent, and these aspects of the franchise showed a lot of thought. People responded to that, and that is why Star Trek ever became popular. When you dilute Star Trek to sit on the same level as the other hapless franchises in the world, it loses what made it successful to begin with.
In other words, Star Trek is for Star Trek fans. When Star Trek materials are made with that in mind, the number of Star Trek fans grows to completely compensate for the lack of any non-Star Trek fans. Star Trek, without compromising itself one bit (in fact, due to that very fact), has changed the world for every single human living on it. The inventor of the cell phone, which in turn opened the door for the majority of our common wireless communications mediums, said he invented the cell phone because he wanted the Star Trek communicator. The individuals who developed our modern operating systems said they wanted to make the Star Trek computers. The documentary "How William Shatner Changed the World" has interviews with these people, and they say those things quite literally. The power Star Trek has when it is not compromised is self evident.
Again...don't wanna sound like a fan boi...but Ky is dead on again.
It's better to lurk in forums and be thought a fool...than to endlessly "Quote" and remove all doubts.
In one of the posts I made in this thread, I expressed my opinion that the nature of Star Trek, when kept intact as faithfully as possible, draws people to it. In other words, I would contend that a game made according to the things I said in my OP would be more commercially successful and more popular, with less naysayers, than the game will be in its current iteration. I guess you could say that Star Trek would create its own market.
In my opinion, I think STO is populated by a large percentage of players who are playing this game without enjoying it the way they were hoping to, and will not continue to play after their free month has ended. I think in a month, the game will become increasingly barren. I also predict that a great number of players who enjoy the game now will not continue to do so for long, as this game is just too depthless to allow for the type of expansion and improvement that many players expect from their MMOs.
I do agree with you, though, that we won't see an MMO like I describe for Star Trek for at least a decade, if ever.
Star Trek has been a second-string IP since Star Wars hit the screen, though I've enjoyed the TNG, DS9, and Voyager series. CBS seems bent on burying it for good with the recent additions to the franchise - the Enterprise series, Abram's "Star Trek: The Abomination", and now the whoring of Roddenberry's idealistic future to Cryptic for a MMO. From this pattern, I'm beginning to believe that CBS plans to drain this cash cow dry and leave nothing but bones behind. Pity.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
I agree with you 100%. It's a disposable IP to them, worth whatever money it makes with as little effort as possible, and then it'll sit on the shelves. What I really hope is that someone else, someday, will buy the IP from CBS, and actually care about it. CBS might sell it for cheap after they ruin Star Trek XII and run the MMO into the ground.
In one of the posts I made in this thread, I expressed my opinion that the nature of Star Trek, when kept intact as faithfully as possible, draws people to it. In other words, I would contend that a game made according to the things I said in my OP would be more commercially successful and more popular, with less naysayers, than the game will be in its current iteration. I guess you could say that Star Trek would create its own market.
In my opinion, I think STO is populated by a large percentage of players who are playing this game without enjoying it the way they were hoping to, and will not continue to play after their free month has ended. I think in a month, the game will become increasingly barren. I also predict that a great number of players who enjoy the game now will not continue to do so for long, as this game is just too depthless to allow for the type of expansion and improvement that many players expect from their MMOs.
I do agree with you, though, that we won't see an MMO like I describe for Star Trek for at least a decade, if ever.
Well, I am in it for the long haul. I not only bought the CE version, I also bought the lifetime sub. I will most definitely be playing months or even years to come. If you look at all the mmo's, they all boil down to the same basic structure that has pretty much been unchanged since they started. The fact that they put ST into an MMO does reduce it down to MMO gameplay, which is not many peoples idea of fun gameplay. I have been playing the game since CB and during OB and now headstart and release and I am still having just as much fun as I did the first time I started it. I went into the game with an open mind as to what some one elses vision to a game would be and I have been able to enjoy it just as much as if they had of made my vision come true. This is where you took offense of me using the word preconceptions. It isn't a bad thing as we all have them. But if you can't look over those preconceptions than that means the game simply is not going to be for you. To condemn it, saying it is going to be barren after 30 days is what i would call petty and spiteful. Why do you have to go to such lengths to try and ruin the game for others? Obviously you don't like it, I have no problems with that at all. but to come to the forums and tell those of us who do like it, that we really dont, and that the game wont last, is nothing more than trolling.
As I stated in my previous post which you seemed to put me down for, your now agreeing with me in that such a thing is almost near impossible to do in an MMO setting with our current tech. Sure they could put something in for non combat that involves using something more than hitting F, but not matter what they do, its still going to be an mmo setting which means your either going to hit F for answer number 1, 2,3,4 or whatever. Its not going to be in depth choices. Anyways, people want to condemn STO for the way it is, yet many say TOR is going to be great. I find it rather funny because with everything they have said about TOR, is basically the way STO is now. Granted im sure the writing will be better but it will still be the same basic concept and that concept is what people can't seem to get over.
MMOs don't do exploration well. If the world is big enough for there to be new stuff for all to discover, it will probably be a very lonely world.
Several of the episodes (not ds9) seemingly all take place with the presumption that the ship is all alone. That alone makes it seem like the MM part doesn't work that well. Now, that might be different if there were several people on the same ship, but i don't see that as happening as much as the one person per ship.
Sector space. I agree, it sucks. At the very least, i would have preferred for sector space to work like this. Instead of being placed in space, you are placed in your bridge with the display. You give the command to set a course, and then engage. The ship flies itself (or the crew does it), and you meanwhile check up on mission status from the command chair or the ready room.
Cryptic's 2 for 2 on this now. First, Champions Online was a major debacle, and now it is clear that STO will continue the tradition. You can't even include City of Heroes in the discussion, because that was a whole different bunch of developers, working under a whole different publisher. Unless Bioware screws up in a big way, which seems unlikely, given their track record, STO will get steamrolled next year, if it lasts that long. I seriously doubt that it will.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
I wrote a big reply here. But I've just deleted it. I don't feel like continuing along this current vein, as all I've wound up doing, for the most part, is reiterate what I said in the OP over and over. That is a great deal of what this reply consisted of, before I deleted it.
I'm afraid I feel as though I've been misinterpreted in the arguments against my points, and all I can continue to do is further break down what I've said. But I feel I've said it clearly the first time, so I really have no desire to do it again.