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theory about ToR..
kb056
Member CommonPosts: 423
If I understand right, the main focus for this game is "story lines" and how they can change based on descision you make.
So we have a game based on "story" (ie, reading) that is the primary reason for replaying the game(yes, they said replayablity based on differing story lines is thier main focus).
Yet, werent we told by someone named Nancy that "reading is bad" for games?
I think Bioware went overboard with thier"story driven game" (too much reading) and LA decided to put a stop to that and add another years development to actually create a game instead of an online novel.
I can ck out a Book/Novel from the local library for free to read, why would I pay $50 to buy it, then pay $15 a month to keep rereading it?
I think major changes are happening to this game because, someone realize, this model wasnt going to work.
Are the changes gonna be good or bad? Hell, I dont know but I really think SOMETHING is going on that has changed.
Comments
1. Everything is voice acted.
2. One could also call it "Choice Driven" instead of "Story Driven." An MMO where you actually make decisions that matter is something I've wanted for a long time now.
Well, reading is bad... thats why its mainly voiceover work done... just like in the BioWare games, you watch what they're doing, and you listen to what they're saying, then you pick the answer that best fits you. You don't reread everything over and over again, depending on how you want to play.. I don't know why you would continuously reroll the same character... but each character has a different story and many different paths to follow.. each path with a different set of skills you learn etc. etc.
I think BioWare is trying to keep the story, but nix some reading to try and get the player to be interactive and build a story and relationship with their factions/alignment/companions without the mess that is 5 pages of text just to click OK to kill 5 rats. At least they'll voice it and allow you to give your opinion.
I'm going to say this is extremely unlikely seeing as how the game is pretty much completely voiced lol. Keep in mind that Bioware claims to have like 40 novels worth of content from voice actors. So I think the reading thing is covered lol.
So the actual story, whether read or heard is something that would keep you playing for years?
I dont give a dam that I can "listen" to the quest givers, all I want to know is what direction I need to head towards to complete the quest.
Dont try telling me that the majority of mmo players actually read/listen to every single quests giver. It simply doesnt happen, most folks just click Accept and look for a direction to head toward,
How does that lend itself to a game that works based, mainly, on Story?
Perhaps this game isn't for you.... if you've ever played a BioWare game, then you'd know how this system works.. it will be strikingly similar.
Perhaps this game isn't for you.... if you've ever played a BioWare game, then you'd know how this system works.. it will be strikingly similar.
This ^ as many are looking forward to this game for the exact reason you seem to not want to play it. Bioware is known for story and the only way I will spend my free time playing a quest centric MMO is if the story is good enough for me to do it. Otherwise I feel like I'm playing Errand Boy Online.
I would rather stick with traditional grind games like FFXI (Which oddly enough had a pretty interesting story) than play a quest centric game that simply points me to the mobs I must kill or sends me on asinine errands all day. If Bioware can deliver a good story which is something they are well known for then I actually have a reason to play a quest centric MMO over a traditional grind MMO.
Without the story you are basically looking for some buffoon with an exclamation mark over his head so that he can tell you to go kill some mobs that you could find and kill without his help lol. And the asinine errands urk me to no end. "Go find the golden stone of Blah, it is a priceless treasure and I will give you my dirty socks to wear"
Sounds like WoW wth the quest tracker add on will be more your speed then.
And the majority of the players would like to see that their actions account for something they do in an online world. Thats what we all want to feel heroic or be the anti-hero. Jee, who would of thought people wanting to immerse themselves in a game world.
They've been releasing a lot of tid bits here and there (especially in PC Gamer) about the game, all of which touted the game as 'story' driven. People didn't react to well to this information, so now we get this shift to drawing our attention to the more 'massive" elements of the game.
I share your belief that recent feedback has caused them to rethink their direction for the game. I really think they were planning on releasing an extremely casual/solo friendly game, that was heavily instanced, but after testing the waters with the info releases they've been doing, decided this was going to end in failure. This is good news, it means that Bioware and EA are thinking long term and are willing to put a lot of money and time into getting the game right. EA's CEO can't afford another WAR, his job is already in jeopardy.
They've been releasing a lot of tid bits here and there (especially in PC Gamer) about the game, all of which touted the game as 'story' driven. People didn't react to well to this information, so now we get this shift to drawing our attention to the more 'massive" elements of the game.
I share your belief that recent feedback has caused them to rethink their direction for the game. I really think they were planning on releasing an extremely casual/solo friendly game, that was heavily instanced, but after testing the waters with the info releases they've been doing, decided this was going to end in failure. This is good news, it means that Bioware and EA are thinking long term and are willing to put a lot of money and time into getting the game right. EA's CEO can't afford another WAR, his job is already in jeopardy.
I tend to agree with that, Storylines are good, and Bioware does have a reputation for creating decent games with them, take Dragon Age;Origins for instance, but the replayability factor of these types of games is not that great, and any game that relys on Storylines is going to have limited appeal, so my guess is their probably adding more game play options, that perhaps, don't rely on storyline - space combat for instance, the response to their being no real space combat was a bit dismal, so perhaps their working on fixing that too. well, they have at least another year to work on it, so keeping fingers crossed that perhaps, this game might become something i'd be interested in playing, and not just a kotor 3 knock off..
There was always going to be stuff that didn't necessarily rely on story. This "response" you seem to think they had is in your head, I think. They spent 2009 just going over how their game was different, which was emphasizing story. They've said multiple times that was their intent. They did mention they had other traditional stuff (raids, group quests, pvp, etc), but they just talked about story on purpose. Now that it is 2010, they'll start talking about that other stuff as was their intention all along.
I believe they've never ruled out space combat. They probably are working on it and have been working on it. Bioware NEVER likes to talk about stuff that's not definitely going to be there (meaning they've worked out all major problems and fine-tuning is what is left). But I guess if they announce space combat in 6 months you'll assume they just started working on it when people complained? You going to do the same thing about raids, group quests, and the like too? That seems rather silly to me.
I understand where you are coming from. But this isn't going to be "listen to WoW quest giver and then go kill/click stuff", though WoW does manage to do that in an interesting way at times.
This is going to be more like "The viliain has an innocent in his hands and will kill her if you don't cooperate....do you try to talk him down [multiple options], buy for time [multiple options, or just go at him anyway and sacrifice the girl?" Later on you might run into her father/brother/sister/mother/child and depending on your choice things will play out differently. Isn't that compelling to you?
In ToR the text isn't going to be meaningless because you interact it with it. If WoW, as an example, was like that, then you could sabotage Undercity's development of a new plague as a Horde character rather than mindlessly help with the death and torture of people in the low level quests. Or when a strange ghost-like entity asks you to start gathering bits of an evil being's armor and stuff in the Outlands (I think I am remembering that quest right), then you could choose an alternate way to go through that quest where you don't blindly help the thinly veiled overlord and instead find help early on to vanquish him (or if you prefer you could willing help the evil guy or if you wanted to be naive you could do that too).
ToR, as presented by Bioware, will be a game where you get CHOICES THAT MATTER on a regularly basis, which is something that MMORPGs have been missing for a long time. Heck, they seldom even offer the illusion of choice unless it is "pick a faction." It's been pretty lame.
They've been releasing a lot of tid bits here and there (especially in PC Gamer) about the game, all of which touted the game as 'story' driven. People didn't react to well to this information, so now we get this shift to drawing our attention to the more 'massive" elements of the game.
I share your belief that recent feedback has caused them to rethink their direction for the game. I really think they were planning on releasing an extremely casual/solo friendly game, that was heavily instanced, but after testing the waters with the info releases they've been doing, decided this was going to end in failure. This is good news, it means that Bioware and EA are thinking long term and are willing to put a lot of money and time into getting the game right. EA's CEO can't afford another WAR, his job is already in jeopardy.
I tend to agree with that, Storylines are good, and Bioware does have a reputation for creating decent games with them, take Dragon Age;Origins for instance, but the replayability factor of these types of games is not that great, and any game that relys on Storylines is going to have limited appeal, so my guess is their probably adding more game play options, that perhaps, don't rely on storyline - space combat for instance, the response to their being no real space combat was a bit dismal, so perhaps their working on fixing that too. well, they have at least another year to work on it, so keeping fingers crossed that perhaps, this game might become something i'd be interested in playing, and not just a kotor 3 knock off..
I would say replayability is what BioWare is renown for, following story of coarse. If the change in story didn't interest you in a second play through, the other classes and combinations might have. Sometimes one play through isn't enough, I know quite a few people that go back and play BioWare games making the exact same choice every play through just because they enjoyed the experience.
Compared to most modern MMOs I would say BioWare could offer better replay value just by changing responses and text over lets say starting another Orc in WoW after getting the same experience the first time. People are happy when they feel important while having an effect on their environment , people and NPCs they encounter. It eliminates that dreadful grind feeling. Something that is rare in most MMOs. They want Endgame to be huge, something I plan to invest most of my gaming time in. I'm sure they plan to offer lots of other options for people, not doing so is just bad business anymore.
There was always going to be stuff that didn't necessarily rely on story. This "response" you seem to think they had is in your head, I think. They spent 2009 just going over how their game was different, which was emphasizing story. They've said multiple times that was their intent. They did mention they had other traditional stuff (raids, group quests, pvp, etc), but they just talked about story on purpose. Now that it is 2010, they'll start talking about that other stuff as was their intention all along.
I believe they've never ruled out space combat. They probably are working on it and have been working on it. Bioware NEVER likes to talk about stuff that's not definitely going to be there (meaning they've worked out all major problems and fine-tuning is what is left). But I guess if they announce space combat in 6 months you'll assume they just started working on it when people complained? You going to do the same thing about raids, group quests, and the like too? That seems rather silly to me.
Really, i have no interest in Raids or the like, but, one of my favourite games was X wing vs Tie fighter, now, something that had that in would be pretty good imo, i dont really care too much for the storylines, but if it has a decent space combat simulator i'll give it a shot. imo JTL was the better part of SWG etc anyway, im not saying ToR should have JTL, but, star wars for me was always about space.. i was never all that fussed about the jedi thing.
There was always going to be stuff that didn't necessarily rely on story. This "response" you seem to think they had is in your head, I think. They spent 2009 just going over how their game was different, which was emphasizing story. They've said multiple times that was their intent. They did mention they had other traditional stuff (raids, group quests, pvp, etc), but they just talked about story on purpose. Now that it is 2010, they'll start talking about that other stuff as was their intention all along.
I believe they've never ruled out space combat. They probably are working on it and have been working on it. Bioware NEVER likes to talk about stuff that's not definitely going to be there (meaning they've worked out all major problems and fine-tuning is what is left). But I guess if they announce space combat in 6 months you'll assume they just started working on it when people complained? You going to do the same thing about raids, group quests, and the like too? That seems rather silly to me.
Really, i have no interest in Raids or the like, but, one of my favourite games was X wing vs Tie fighter, now, something that had that in would be pretty good imo, i dont really care too much for the storylines, but if it has a decent space combat simulator i'll give it a shot. imo JTL was the better part of SWG etc anyway, im not saying ToR should have JTL, but, star wars for me was always about space.. i was never all that fussed about the jedi thing.
As far as I know (and greed may have better intel on this then I) they haven't denied or confirmed space battles as being in or out yet. JTLS was my favorite part of star wars galaxies too... as far as the combat was concerned... and I do hope it gets implemented.. if not at launch.. then eventually.
However, the game was ALWAYS said to have the same elements as a traditional MMO had.. there was no SWITCH based on player complaints. The only thing that may have changed is biowares patience with the same questions being asked by those that didn't read (or if they did, believe) what bioware was telling them when the first bits of information was announced. They had numerous devs from their team answering the same questions time and time again because some players just wouldn't take their word for it. It wasn't a shift in their plan at all, just a shift in their PR.
They've been releasing a lot of tid bits here and there (especially in PC Gamer) about the game, all of which touted the game as 'story' driven. People didn't react to well to this information, so now we get this shift to drawing our attention to the more 'massive" elements of the game.
I share your belief that recent feedback has caused them to rethink their direction for the game. I really think they were planning on releasing an extremely casual/solo friendly game, that was heavily instanced, but after testing the waters with the info releases they've been doing, decided this was going to end in failure. This is good news, it means that Bioware and EA are thinking long term and are willing to put a lot of money and time into getting the game right. EA's CEO can't afford another WAR, his job is already in jeopardy.
You have just listened to disinformation by disgruntled people instead of actual information from Bioware. Majority of people have responded well to the story aspect of the game, as the polls show.
Also, there has been no rethinking of direction nor did they plan on releasing extremele casual/solo friendly game that was heavily instanced - while the game no doubt will be as casual friendly as WoW (this is something that they have actually said). Most of your information was conjured up by intentional spread of disinformation. Bioware has not responded in any way to the vocal minority who want this game to be anything but the Themepark it is going to be.
They have been pretty clear from a while that this game will have all the basic elements of MMOs with a cherry on top.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Not again. Look... people are starting to want more out of their games than WoW. They want something different and new. Its time to take MMO's in a new direction. You're going to have to just deal with it.
I hope the story drives off the idiots. I hope that those who would like to rush to end game and do nothing but raid raid raid raid or hardcore PvP forever are turned off by the story.
It would be nice to have a community like LotRO, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Bioware said that players won't be having an effect on the game world plus if you really pay attention, Bioware's "choices" are usually pretty illusory, letting you make some decisions, but since they get to control the range of decisions you get to choose from, you'll find you haven't an impact that they didn't want you to have.
I'm not saying that that means the game is going to be bad, we'll have to see how it turns out. Just pointing out that Bioware's vaunted 'choices' aren't all that people make them out to be. Especially if you've played a lot of Bioware games before.
Bioware said that players won't be having an effect on the game world plus if you really pay attention, Bioware's "choices" are usually pretty illusory, letting you make some decisions, but since they get to control the range of decisions you get to choose from, you'll find you haven't an impact that they didn't want you to have.
I'm not saying that that means the game is going to be bad, we'll have to see how it turns out. Just pointing out that Bioware's vaunted 'choices' aren't all that people make them out to be. Especially if you've played a lot of Bioware games before.
The examples I gave were effects on the game world. Maybe they aren't global enough for you because you want to blow up planets or something, but they ARE effects. More than you can get anywhere else with a MMO that has even a halfway decent story. Yeah, some choices in Bioware games don't amount to much, but they have PLENTY that do. I've played most of the games they've made. Choices account for even more when you have a light/dark side type choices to make. Anyhow, your other criticism is that Bioware makes a list of choices that you can choose from so it isn't fully free? Well, that's true, but I'll take a list of choices over zero choices any day of the week. Right now other MMOs give zero choices and I'm honestly quite tired of it.
You're right, no confirmation or denial. More so evasive on the question. Asking them if space is in ToR results in a smile and "We're not talking about that right now". Spring 2011 has kicked my expectations of ToR up a few bars. I expect space at launch.
Bioware said that players won't be having an effect on the game world plus if you really pay attention, Bioware's "choices" are usually pretty illusory, letting you make some decisions, but since they get to control the range of decisions you get to choose from, you'll find you haven't an impact that they didn't want you to have.
I'm not saying that that means the game is going to be bad, we'll have to see how it turns out. Just pointing out that Bioware's vaunted 'choices' aren't all that people make them out to be. Especially if you've played a lot of Bioware games before.
Granted in ME and DA choices weren't as broad as say jade empire or KOTOR. However IN KOTOR especially there was usually at least three ways to tackle a big situation. The middle ground usually being un eventful of course, as you didn't take part.
There is a reason for the structure behind "not being able to do" it's because each path requires a story, there's only so much they can do with one quest when they are trying to create hundreds ("novels worth") of them. There's nit picking then there's nit picking this is the latter.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I have much expectations on this game, just hope they dont tight us too much with the story driven progression, a slight guidance is OK, a forcefull follow story or stop progress is not, i want freedom in any MMORPG, even freedom to follow the story whenever i want and freedom to grind when i feel like it.
Im very much looking forward to the voice acting in the game. Finally someone is having a story with a game instead of typical having to read x and x and x to figure out whats going on and what im suppose to do.
(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH raises plunger in salute to BIOWARE!!!!)
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
Uhh, you are aware that their goal from the start was to have a storyline driven fully voice acted MMIO, right? Watching and listening to people talk isn't exactly "reading" though there might be words on the screen. So much for your "theory."
Nope. Correct me if Bioware have said otherwise, but my take on the "story" is as follows:
It replaces/augments the levelling process and is specifically designed for rerollers and slow levellers because it concentrates on making the journey from character creation to max level fun for those who aren't focused on powerlevelling to end-game.
More fun than the traditional "go grind XP or do quests to kill 10 wolves" methods, at least.
If you're a player who is focused on the end-game rather than the journey, then the story-driven gameplay probably won't be so important to you; you'll still be powerlevelling to hit max level.
Whether TOR has responsive combat and varied, challenging end-game remains to be seen.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift