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What i dislike at WWIIOnline

I´m playing that game since Nov 05 - unsubbed several times, but never let the subscribtion running out. This game is like a drug - hating it or loving it, but its very hard to be without it.

But there was some changes made in game, which often brought me to finally unsub to that game:

 

Usually i am playing tanking in that game, which was great fun before some patches ago. With the implemention of the "TOEs" and the "brigade-rotations" there is one great aspect of the game gone:

Manual resupply (and the chance to cut supply) is almost gone in the game now. As a tanker, there is not much left in game than rushing to a hostile town and trying to camp the enemies spawnpoints. (Pretty lame!) It was lots of fun before when going with a tank close to a back-road and wait for inbound hostile vehicles which was trying to support an attacked town. - Small battles started up that way in "the middle of nowhere", when a tankers "skill and SA" was decisive for having success or not.

While those tank vs. tank - battles didn´t affected much the inf-players game, because of the locations far away from towns was possible, it also was a good thing to go "hunting" with one or two squad-comrades - even when they was new to the game - and it was a good oportunity to increase tactical warfare at the tanking game. Instead of having this in game now, there is not much left of the former "tanking-fun".

Sad but true, the range, where other vehicles are becoming visible was decreased from > 3k+ down to 2.65 k. A pretty stupid "implementation" to the game - just imagine you are driving a tank to an elevated spot anc scan the terrain - no visual contacts seen - then you go for another 50 or 100 meters further and wenting "boom", because a hostile veh or gun was sitting just outside of the visual range limit. This "issue" is creating a lot frustration and is taking away the chance of getting good SA by using the terrain (hills etc.) and in addition is just bringing a kind of "shoebox-feeling" into the game. Whats the worth of having a visual distance at a terrain several miles (up to 7k !! ), but the potential foe is virtually hidden and therefore not only invulnerable but due to the stealth-mode, all chance of flanking the enemy is gone.

 

The "game mechanics" took away lot of the fun and just left some great rememberance of "better days in the past", while the "bitter taste" still remains (when sitting near a spawnpoint and getting blown up by hostile inf). It goes that far, that as a tanker you have to run away from a single enemy-inf for several kilometers (just hope, that you don´t have to climb a hill with a tank, because inf can sprint faster uphill than some tanks will do)

 

Another "Issue" which i really dislike is the "censorship" of the forums there. Almost everything which is "critisising" the game (or the planned changes) will be deleted or moved to a "hidden" part of those forums.

Oh, and finally - recently no new units are included - just some "tweaks" of old units. The last new equipment was for Inf-game and flyboys (but also years ago) - the last new tank coming into the game was 2006.

 

I think, it wasn´t the players fault, when the developer team decreased their amount of staff, even when there wa by far more players in the game - but not bringing in new equipment (such as SPAA, SPA, new tanks, scout cars, ships and more) for years will anoy long term players more than newcomers (naturally) - but newcomers who will stay in game soon start to ask for new equipment too.

 

Next thing, which i dislike in game is the ability (or the lack of) to fix bugs in game - how long does the StuG-engine bug is in game now (must be 4 years at least) - sometimes it makes me think, that CRS (or at least some of the guys there) are biased (hehe, thats a totally NO NO NO in their forum to post), because that bug is still remaining in game - instead of fixing it, they enjoy more to "repaint" the french Char 1bis and leave the "crappy" sights of the most two useless guns in game (Pak 36 and Flak30) as they are. I am asking myself why (because you will not get any answer from the developers there - other than a TOS warning or banning).

 

So, besides a step learning curve while playing the game, players will also get a lesson in history too (one side has to face with - in some way nerfed - ´42 equipment an enemy who have in at least double numbers equipment from ´44; well, for "balance reasons").  With all their implemented "restrictions" they are on the best way to "restrict" players out of "Their" game.

 

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Comments

  • SzyporynSzyporyn Member Posts: 122

    If you imagine the Y-scale as your knowledge of the game, and the X-scale as time.

    Then a steep learning curve would indicate that you learn the game really really fast - what you probably meant was that it has a shallow learning curve, and that it will take you time to learn the game.

    Well this is not BF Heroes - this is an all out warfare simulator (well as close as it gets) and no pixel damage - so that is to be expected

  • PaukerPauker Member Posts: 60
    Originally posted by Szyporyn


    If you imagine the Y-scale as your knowledge of the game, and the X-scale as time.
    Then a steep learning curve would indicate that you learn the game really really fast - what you probably meant was that it has a shallow learning curve, and that it will take you time to learn the game.
    Well this is not BF Heroes - this is an all out warfare simulator (well as close as it gets) and no pixel damage - so that is to be expected



     

    Before they reduced the max rendering distance, you could see pretty good a target out to 3.4k - now they just plopping in - very realistic

  • hardcasehardcase Member Posts: 367

    Aren't the standalones showing view distances of 200 meters?

  • spizzspizz Member UncommonPosts: 1,971

    The best ingame for me was organized gameplay  i.e. tank columns, air raids and so on...thats what i did miss a lot and thats the reason i dont subscribe anymore.

    I did start playing Arma2 in the last weeks and the game offers 5k+ visible range with fantastic graphics - the viewable distance is amazing, up to 120 player online on one server or even 300+ units if the server offers warfare cti with AI units.....Iam waiting for the 31st normandy mod, a ww2 modification where you dont have the fire and forget weapons (this is btw a former ww2online squad doing this mod). They are working on it to implement the mod for arma2.

     

    www.armaholic.com/forums.php

    forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php

    www.armaholic.com/forums.php

    videos to watch:

    www.youtube.com/profile

     (most screenshots from these links are arma 1 wheras arma2 graphic looks a lot better, map in the work is 153x153km²)

    The modern weapon systems is maybe only one thing i dislike in Arma since they disable targets too easy and there is no real damage modell like in BE which i miss a lot. Maybe i will start another BE trial in some weeks after  1.31 got released and patched, Battleground Europe has some kind of exciting gameplay which you dont find in any other game....arma 2 with the hopefully soon released ww2 mod will be probably the most similar game expirience but will of course not the same, its just the only alternative i know and I hope it will be released "soon". But I just wonder why it takes so long for a handfull units in BE.

  • BEMotormouthBEMotormouth Member Posts: 18

    Spiz,

    I just read a thread in the forums this morning about a massive para-drop (100+) organized by players just last night. There are some awesome screenshots of it.

    We're also working on a list of in-game organized events that can be run on the live server fairly easily. Things like the Commander of Chief of one side or another being shot down in enemy territory, or an envoy trying to get into a hotly contested town to deliver HQ comms and putting a bounty on their heads. A bunch of ideas floating around that I'm hoping we'll see in the live game very soon.

  • bigtime102bigtime102 Member UncommonPosts: 174


    Originally posted by BEMotormouth
    Spiz,
    I just read a thread in the forums this morning about a massive para-drop (100+) organized by players just last night. There are some awesome screenshots of it.

    We're also working on a list of in-game organized events that can be run on the live server fairly easily. Things like the Commander of Chief of one side or another being shot down in enemy territory, or an envoy trying to get into a hotly contested town to deliver HQ comms and putting a bounty on their heads. A bunch of ideas floating around that I'm hoping we'll see in the live game very soon.



    I count about 40 in there, and that stuff is rare. Organizing anything in this game is a waste of time and no one does it. And when you do do it the game is so unbalanced you got a guy waiting for you near a table about to respawn every 10 seconds to kill you after your 1 hour flight. Its ridiculous, it doesnt work, its broke. Theres many reasons why people dont organize in thsi game but the devs are just incapable of understanding as evidence by their failed attempts at fixing it.

    So instead you gotta put on lame events no one wants to bother with because they have nothing to do with the live PVP game thats going on. Why do you have these fake re-enactment events? Isnt that kind of admiting your PVP game sucks and doesnt work on its own where you need special events to experience organization and teamwork? Isnt that what spiz is saying? That there is none? And there isnt.

  • PaukerPauker Member Posts: 60
    Originally posted by BEMotormouth


    Spiz,
    I just read a thread in the forums this morning about a massive para-drop (100+) organized by players just last night. There are some awesome screenshots of it.

    We're also working on a list of in-game organized events that can be run on the live server fairly easily. Things like the Commander of Chief of one side or another being shot down in enemy territory, or an envoy trying to get into a hotly contested town to deliver HQ comms and putting a bounty on their heads. A bunch of ideas floating around that I'm hoping we'll see in the live game very soon.



     

     

     

    Hehe, nowadays Rats have to organize "events" - before the implementation of TOEs players could do a huge overstock and "spread" the information about the day X via HCs among the playerbase - that was far more interesting than "Events" - because during the "Supply-built-up-phase" there was the "thrill" of possible spies, the possibility of supply-cutters and the hunting down of those supply-cutters - lots of fun for a longer periode of time <> compared to the Events <> and even another goal was hit by the oversupplying thing:

    It happened on the main-server. When having "Events", they are mostly on trainings-server. Many players give a damn about Events, when loosing some towns on campaign server meanwhile.

     

    No, i would say, Events are a pretty poor excange for the huge OPs due to overstock on live server before TOEs; but Rats coded almost the whole fun of the game out - for that they have always enough manpower. But for creating new units ???? Since years we just hear lame excuses.

  • SzyporynSzyporyn Member Posts: 122

    Pauker not true!

    CRS have been running event for way longer than that, I know since I participated in those made by LINDIR "way back then" ;)

    They are not making these events to make up for lack of live server activity - they do it because they have a great game enviroment that can be used for other stuff as well - now they just found a way to put small "story lines" I would call it into the live server, and that sounds interesting.

    And if you feel the live server needs more people, then why spend so much effort bashing it unfairly - potentially preventing others from trying a really great and unique game!

  • PaukerPauker Member Posts: 60
    Originally posted by Szyporyn


    Pauker not true!
    CRS have been running event for way longer than that, I know since I participated in those made by LINDIR "way back then" ;)
    They are not making these events to make up for lack of live server activity - they do it because they have a great game enviroment that can be used for other stuff as well - now they just found a way to put small "story lines" I would call it into the live server, and that sounds interesting.
    And if you feel the live server needs more people, then why spend so much effort bashing it unfairly - potentially preventing others from trying a really great and unique game!



     

    I know - there was times, when players volunteerly organised "Events". Many more players was online that times.

    I also remember, when jammyman become a Rat for organizing the events. So, for shure, the Events are existing way longer in game - but (and thats the difference now - before mostly Trainers "announced and organised" that events on trainings server - nowadays the whole "Event-thing" sounds like its the solution to everything. 

    It just makes me real upset, instead of changing the gameplay AND implement new units to the game, the Rats are more focussing on "Events" - just take a look at the main page - how long does the Article about the last Event remained in first place.

    And watch the forums, how many players are starting to complain about the marketing/customer treading - behavior of  the developers. Wasn´t that 1.31 "Eyecandy" announced for the fall (last year) and what did we got? Nothing more than a poor offline beta version - without any "X-mas gift" (which always was ment, that some new unit was implemented. 

    Instead of changing the gameplay - just watch the posting about the warping units in the BGE-Forums - they (Rats) announced for 2010 the reworking of the HC-System - not to speak from the how long from so many players asked SPAA - and something for the long forgotten navy plus when did we got a new tank - was back in 2006. The supply is alwasy the same - map after map, month after moth and year after year. It is simply not the players fault when the rats reduced their staff long ago and rested too long on their seats.

     

    You also know, how the SD is annoying the players - instead of creating something for helping the underpopulated side (to attract more players to that side) - they simply went the easy way for the developer - and implemented something that frustrates the overpopulated side instead. And now they are wondering why the player-numbers declined? - At least its not the players fault.

    So, when taking all this "Issues" into account, i think there are many  (sad but true - way too much) reasons for bashing.

     

    I never said, that it is a game not worth playing - but its very frustrating to see what the developers did with their game in the past - and as the worst part - didn´t even show with one single word, that they know what went wrong.

     

     

    Oh, a word about server activity - or the lack of it; just show me one single player who really is believing that nowadays are more players online than - lets say 2 or 3 years ago. And before 5 or 6 years ago there was more players than before 2 years. - But rats didn´t have learned from it.

     

     

    Thats why i think it should be mentioned at a place, where the "Censorship" of the Rat-Mods having no effect. (I´ve tried long enough to post what many players dont like at the game - but many post simply "dissapeared" from the public-eyes due to their Mods.  Well, its way easier to put critism under the carpet - instead of discussing problems with the players.)

     

     

    Oh - i do not "prevent" potentially other players from playing that game, when just open my mouth and speak freely about my opinion of the game (which is - or better to say - was, a great game - but by holding back what going on in game and dont telling it to potential players seems to me the same as lying to new players) - All the points i´ve mentioned here - btw, you also know, that this is by far not the whole list to complain about - all these points where mentioned in the Rats forum before - but when they dont think its worth to answer to the points - then, i do not have any problem to make it "public to a wider audience".

     

  • SzyporynSzyporyn Member Posts: 122

    I hear what you are saying, but I contribute it to the same thing that I know is why so many feel like you - and to some extent me as well.

    The whole idea of this game is SUCH a great one, and everyone have a pretty firm idea about how they would like it to be - and have a vision on how that would make it perfect.

    I am often to be found complaining my @ss off in the BGE forums - but always for the love of the game (although I think CRS sometimes think I don't like em lol).

    One thing that I complain about is a factor that plays in to the first thing you mention.
    That the events play so much more of a factor today - and with the example that a story about a event had its place on the website frontpage for a long time.
    CRS are not running the best website in the world (to put it mildly - sorry guys!) and the way news and stories are presented are not the best way either, nor are they putting out enough news.
    But the thing is, they are a small crew - they focus most of their efforts into what they do best, making a game!
    MotorMouth who posted is not only doin her job in taking care of relations with the playerbase, making sure the game gets profilated, send out news and newsletters and so on - she also has to deal with the website as I suspect they have no real "website team" - and until the game gets the credit and playerbase it truly deserve they wont have :(

    So the events do not play much more of a factor other than they have become better, and with better stories behind them (in the old days they were simple red on blue scenarios).

    Now about all the other ideas you have that they should focus on, well thats your oppinion on the matter - they make their decitions based on what they think is best for the overall playerbase, and since their jobs relies on them making the right one then I just have to accept that my ideas and visions are just that.

    Yes I find SD annoying and not really worth it, but I put up with it (apart from using my right to complain in forums lol).

    Yes server population seemed higher in the days, even think there were many many more online in 2002-2004 - but I do not have numbers to back that up.

    Now for you and me it might seem simple enough to just want something changed, but remember this game is now 9 years old - its an old engine and code, and just changing stuff is not that easy apparently.

    But I have read and know they are slowly bit by bit changing the code to make it much easier to make changes on the fly (so to say), and already in the next patch we will see one such change to the capture mechanism.

    Instead of having to place each particular capturable table inside such a building and write events for the capture for each (so I understand they had to do it - anyways it was not the best way to go around it) they have now just created a state that they can tie to buildings.

    So in 1.31 buildings will be capturable by you simply staying inside them and staying alive, I see this as a really huge change in the gameplay towards a more desirable way of simulating capture

  • PaukerPauker Member Posts: 60
    Originally posted by Szyporyn


    I hear what you are saying, but I contribute it to the same thing that I know is why so many feel like you - and to some extent me as well.
    The whole idea of this game is SUCH a great one, and everyone have a pretty firm idea about how they would like it to be - and have a vision on how that would make it perfect.
    I am often to be found complaining my @ss off in the BGE forums - but always for the love of the game (although I think CRS sometimes think I don't like em lol).
    One thing that I complain about is a factor that plays in to the first thing you mention.

    That the events play so much more of a factor today - and with the example that a story about a event had its place on the website frontpage for a long time.

    CRS are not running the best website in the world (to put it mildly - sorry guys!) and the way news and stories are presented are not the best way either, nor are they putting out enough news.

    But the thing is, they are a small crew - they focus most of their efforts into what they do best, making a game!

    MotorMouth who posted is not only doin her job in taking care of relations with the playerbase, making sure the game gets profilated, send out news and newsletters and so on - she also has to deal with the website as I suspect they have no real "website team" - and until the game gets the credit and playerbase it truly deserve they wont have :(
    So the events do not play much more of a factor other than they have become better, and with better stories behind them (in the old days they were simple red on blue scenarios).
    Now about all the other ideas you have that they should focus on, well thats your oppinion on the matter - they make their decitions based on what they think is best for the overall playerbase, and since their jobs relies on them making the right one then I just have to accept that my ideas and visions are just that.
    Yes I find SD annoying and not really worth it, but I put up with it (apart from using my right to complain in forums lol).
    Yes server population seemed higher in the days, even think there were many many more online in 2002-2004 - but I do not have numbers to back that up.
    Now for you and me it might seem simple enough to just want something changed, but remember this game is now 9 years old - its an old engine and code, and just changing stuff is not that easy apparently.
    But I have read and know they are slowly bit by bit changing the code to make it much easier to make changes on the fly (so to say), and already in the next patch we will see one such change to the capture mechanism.
    Instead of having to place each particular capturable table inside such a building and write events for the capture for each (so I understand they had to do it - anyways it was not the best way to go around it) they have now just created a state that they can tie to buildings.
    So in 1.31 buildings will be capturable by you simply staying inside them and staying alive, I see this as a really huge change in the gameplay towards a more desirable way of simulating capture



     

    I think, we all can agree firmly, that the Idea of BGE is still unbeaten by other MMORGs - the concept is absolutly top.

    But thats the only positive thing what causes that the game is still running.

     

    Shure, its only a small developers crew - but hey, was it the players fault that they decreased the staff members long ago from somewhat 11 or 16 down to sometimes not more than 7 or 8? (thats what i´ve heared from an old player who is now a Rat himself). The players cannot be blamed that the developers numbers are that low - its Rat-HQ-internals. But didn´t CRS wasn´t becoming tired to tell the playerbase, that their release in PRoC will give them enough ressources to increase their crew drastically and the Pb will benefit from it as well. 

     

    Well, excuse me, but the only benefit i´ve seen is, that the 1.31 patch takes them more than a year now - and still no online beta available (not that i am horny about that patch - i do not need "eye-candies" - i would prefer much more a change in gameplay - just to have the fun of pre TOEs back in game and long overdue new units. Do you remember, when they implemented the last tank in the game? It was the Sherm 76 back in 2006 - since then, they wasn´t able to bring new vehicles into the game at all.

     

    And from what i´ve noticed about the events - back in the days when Jammyman wasn´t a Rat, there was much more frequently "Events" than today - not that i´m an "Event-freak" (i give a damn about Events, specially when the gameplay on the live server is lacking almost every fun now due to poor system - like TOEs and other crap) Shouldn´t they focus more on the Events and have a poor live-game?

    I know, they have very limited ressources - agree (i don´t say that these guys are lazy), but what is most annoying - they are going to waste lots of their ressources into changes what only drives more and more players away from the game. Didn´t they (Rats) realise, that their efforts in "eye-candies" don´t change things like brigade stagging and therefore making manual resuply just obsolete.

    Instead of giving each player more the feeling, that he/she can affect the game by his/her efforts in the game, they are going the oposit way and making every single play much more dependable on few HC-players. The negative outcoming is seen currently on allied side. Instead of using "carrots" for bringing back more players to the underpopulated side, they are using the stick and creating more frustration on the overpopulated side - overall its nothing else but a loose / loose situation, because when in the game are less and lesser players, it makes it just always harder for the Rats to balance that. Not, that i say, "eye-candies" shouldn´t be implemented in the game - but hey, the major focuss should be the gameplay. (reffering also to the bad HC-system we have currently; you can see the Playschool-Forum is filled with complainments about all the bad isssues HC and gameplay) - it is not the best customer treading, that Rats just create for them (the customers) that they must think, the developers just give a damn about their customers.

     

    Indeed there are many players left in game who like the TOE and other things - but as in the other thread it is stated, that the majority who disagreed with the way the game went, just left the game and did the only thing which (hopefully) makes the developer think about it (and hopefully overthink their mind) - all these players who left the game just voted with their subscription, because thats the only thing they can do, when the developers are that kind of "stubborn".

    Didn´t the Rats always have beaten down any objection to planed changes with the word: "You just play for having fun, but our jobs are depending on the game, so we do what we think is right..." - well, if the customers are not satisfied with the changes - and their objections are mostly going to be deleted from the forums, what else they can do than leaving the game?

    This circle is going to be closed, when the developers didn´t change their minds and instead just decreased their staff - now who is going to get blamed for it? I bet, the players cannot be blamed - many of them (me included) have given the developers more "credit" to overcome and bought builders accounts. Not because they are satisfied with the current game, but just for the hope that it will turn into something better as we have now and for not letting this game down. Damn, it was so much fun to play in the "older days" - but instead of using the players given credit wisely, the Rats are going to ruin the game completly.

    I also don´t forsee any changes in their mind - just need to look at some feedbacks: the major tenor is, that they simply refuse to go back to old gameplay system (because too much changed, or whatsever the excuses are) and instead they are going to improve what they have (Remark: and let the players just desinformed what they are planning to do or where to go).

    So, from a customers point: when i decided to give them some stable "ressources" by buying a builders account - i feel nothing but betrayed, because nothing what i hoped is considered to be implemented (brought back in game) - instead, they are working to code the tiny rest of remaining fun out - very dissapointing i say.

    And - another thing: taking all side bias away and making suggestion in playschool for doing some changes - and even asking the Rats directly about that (changes which can made easy by tweaking some timers and copy and paste some properties - should be that great task to do; because i know, Rats like to praise "huge changes" which are made with less efforts) - evemn when asking the directly, they don´t need to give any responce - instead they like to respond to some "jokes" or other very unimportant things - OT section of the PS  is the best example for that - it seems they care more about the swine-flu than for their game. This is not, why myself like many other players have bought long term accounts.

  • hardcasehardcase Member Posts: 367

    CRS was in bankruptcy for some time long ago and they had to let many people go.  This last cycle included not only 1.31 but the China build which may keep their doors open. All the TOE, Bde movment were designed to produce fights. The HC at one time were trying to win at the expense of fights and CRS listened and the gaming was changed to ensure fights. Newbies, before the implemtation of the mechanics would leave because they fights were small and hard to find. WW2OL cannot survive placating the squads who want to have a couple of squad nights for a few hours. The Rats have to make money, they have to keep newbies. The old days were not that fun, they did not keep newbies and almost drove the Rats out of business.

  • PaukerPauker Member Posts: 60
    Originally posted by hardcase


     The old days were not that fun, they did not keep newbies and almost drove the Rats out of business.



     

    So the later days show lots players more, because now its more fun?

    I bet when Rats just focuss only on their China-deal and act like they´ve forgotten what have keept them alive, then they can close their servers outside of china.

    All that self-celebrating posts from rats, that everything is okay didn´t brought in a single new player - we have less of them than ever before. And in few days, when the subscriptions of my accounts are running out, they even will have some more less.

    If any of the rats are going to read the forums here, then they should be aware of this:

     

    Rats - do something for games sake - do it now and do it fast!

  • jatobijatobi Member Posts: 117

    I started day one and played for two years.  Since then I kept un subbing and resubbing when things are added/fixed to play a little. 

     

    The game is just boring to play constantly anymore.  I can care less about all the above mentioned.  Even if there isnt "as many" players on as it used to be there still is a battle to be found at any given time, you just gotta look. 

    If they would only add more counties to the conflict.  I want new units, new counties to play as, The U.S. a prime example.  Bring in the newer stuff, move on to the later days of the war.  It's been since june 2001, that's 9 years now (will be anyway).  I originally started playing this game because it was "World War II Online" meaning the entire war.  Not 41~42 played over and over again by the same three countries.

     

    If they would add new playable countries to the game with new units, I think more people would play/return.  But that's just me lol.

  • hardcasehardcase Member Posts: 367

    China controls its own servers, WW2OL China is licensed from CRS and CRS only collects money and gives them our upgrades also.

  • PaukerPauker Member Posts: 60
    Originally posted by hardcase


    China controls its own servers, WW2OL China is licensed from CRS and CRS only collects money and gives them our upgrades also.



     

    Thats correct, China will have their own Servers and pay for their license. So far I can fully agree. But i cannot agree with that we are benfitting due to upgrades untill this moment. The oposite is true - Rats have pushed out for the chinese servers some patches more than on "our" servers. The chinese game is running somwhere at 1.30.5 or so, while the current version on "western servers" is 1.30.3 - It may have to do something with the chinese governments requests.

    Anyway - what count under the line is simple, that since more than a year no patch available for "us".

    Okay, i buy also, that its a small crew - compared to other companies. I really have absolutly no intention to lower their efforts which they have done - but still, for a paying customer it counts what is summary. What does we had as summary in game last year? - Right, absolutly nothing. I honestly cannot forsee, that we may have some benefit in case of upgrading the game due to the china deal.

    Just thinking logically - all the chinese players are new to the game - we cannot compare their "feelings" and their definitions of "fun" in the game with ours.

    Its somewhat the same with new players at the "western servers" too - new players find everything very interesting and cool. Let them play the game for some years, then they will have other expections - like longer term players now too.

     

    I ajm also aware, that after the implemention of TOEs, many players left the game - when the developers would get rid of the TOEs, another part of players will turn their back and leave for good.

    What is pretty annoying is:

    Rats maybe see, that they went somewhat into the wrong direction and whatever causes them now, they are afraid to go a step back (okay, i also can understand that motivation to a major degree) - but i absolutly cannot follow, why they are making not a tiny single intention to "combine" some kind of the older gameplay (which many found that it made more fun than now) with the newer TOEs. There might be possibilities to do that - (like decreasing the regulair spawnlists somewhat - maybe 50% - and "force" manual resuply for the other 50%, while giving HQs a greater spawnlist and don´t allow them to be moved into a town with a link to an enemy-town.)

    In that way, both kind of players could be happy and may find their fun - the "newer shoebox-players" and the others who like manual resuply and suply-cuttings. Rats also could use the (reduced) resuply timer and the percentage of "auto-resuply" for balancing player-numbers - i.e. the underpopulated side would receive 60% of auto resuply into the brigades spawnlists, while the overpopulated side would need to start manual resuply when the spawnlists are at 50 % full.

     

    You see, THERE ARE ways to satisfy more players if rats are willing to do a compromise, but untill yet, they are refusing to make any changes at all untill today. No statement is seen on their forums, that they are willing to find a way for satisfying both kind of players.

     

    The problem simply is for a tanker - as i maybe have stated before - with the brigade rotations, there is no need for driving suply from other (behind) towns to an attacked town, because now it is simply more easy to just move a whole fresh brigade into that town. As a result of it, all the fights are focussing to just that attacked town without any suply-cutting or other small tank vs. tank battles outside of towns. For what should they fight at other places than spots, where spawncamping is possible (and unfortunatly the only goal for tankers in game now)

  • TontomanTontoman Member Posts: 196

    I have some sympathy for the RATs as so often they gave people what they asked for only to have the whole thing blow up.  Spawnable depots to bypass camping, man did that blow up in everyone's faces.  Not sure if there was a game engine reason why flags had to be beside depots, but man did it increase camping tenfold.  Then MSP, welcome to the swarm of lemmings and every battle being the Alamo.

    But the big killer was the death of the squads.  Not a collection of people with the same tag (what a squad was by the time I left) but the close knit group of people who played together nightly and knew everyone by name.  Having those squads and the cities you were responsable for made WWIIOL unique.  Any dead game time would be taken up with just talking to your mates, same with the truck driving. But with depot spawning, MSP, AO's it became a major campfest where the whole pop was needed to drain a town and the squads die in six months. I just saw people leaving in droves. I don't see how you could ever get that type of player back, not without risking losing the instant action crowd (who complain of running 200m to the city) you have now and losing the last of your pop. On the few trials I've played since leaving you'd be lucky for any of the ten tanks that just died to put on comms (or the newish 'god' map) that there's a gun around.

    It was also the time when you really used the large map, the cutting off of the truck loads of troops. Now you might use the large map once to just make sure you don't get noticed as you park BEHIND the city and spawn a whole army.  But you really don't even have to do that, 5-10 trucks can just boot past and if one or two get through you have your army spawn.  No point to having defenses out of the city as with enemies spawning all around they'll just cap the points behind you anyway.  So we ending up with a huge map, little shoebox battles.   And every city is the same battle, surround with trucks, spawn, swarm.  The cities on rivers being the exception where you could still get a battle line and some push and shove going.  Or you would if the battle you were waiting weeks for didn't get done overnight when 20 guys were on and it gets low pop capped :P

     

  • hardcasehardcase Member Posts: 367

    The release is a bit more than eyecandy. Funny, everyone complained about the lack of graphics and now...this is just eyecandy. Two major rreleases in a year...China, which keeps to doors open and 1.31 which, didnt they say had more than 1k tickets from the first iteration for the beta team?  12 people seem to be doing as much as can be done. From anniouncment to semi open beta in about 6 months, with the China launch going on in the background. Seems reasonable, then again they could have put it on the campaign server and listen to complaints for half a year. They can never satisfy everyone.

  • hardcasehardcase Member Posts: 367

    All the battle mechanics are designed to concentrate and make fights. I remember attacking resupply, I remember newbies screaming they could not find a big fight, they were running from the FB to the town and dying by a sniper. I remember them leaving in droves. You still want the old ww2ol where squad could have a little kill fest for a few hours a week and the rest of the time the newbes walked toward the exits. Squads still have nights and newbies like not having to hunt forever to find a way to die.

  • TontomanTontoman Member Posts: 196
    Originally posted by hardcase


    All the battle mechanics are designed to concentrate and make fights. I remember attacking resupply, I remember newbies screaming they could not find a big fight, they were running from the FB to the town and dying by a sniper. I remember them leaving in droves. You still want the old ww2ol where squad could have a little kill fest for a few hours a week and the rest of the time the newbes walked toward the exits. Squads still have nights and newbies like not having to hunt forever to find a way to die.



     

    Until they joined a squad and then were in fights.  The one that wanted to (or could) learn had no problem finding battles.   Leaving in droves ROTFLMAO, maybe but lots stayed also, we had a way way bigger pop then than you do now.  And the ones who stayed are the one you wanted to stay, who could work as a team and had something called patience.   Seriously is a person who needs 'instant action' (as it was termed) in order not to log off really going to be a teamplayer when patience might be required?  As the battles, you could have a battle whenever you wanted it if you spent the time to learn.  Not like nowdays where there can be ZERO action on the whole map, or just the camping end of one where you have to camp for an hour to burn off the massive supply.   So bad we had posts on the kiddy forums about absolutely no action going on during my last trial, I'd never seen that before.  So yeah, for battles the old days were better.

    Don't get me going on what's called squads nowdays.  Squads as seen by my last trial.  A guy at the Chimay S hill on defence.  He'd drive past the ATGs setup on the back slope to the top of the hill only to die instantly to the tanks behind it.  He'd post a notice on enemy tanks being there, get another tank and repeat.  After 3-4 tanks (the ATGs were still in position waiting for enemy tanks to cross) he said tank supply was gone and he left the battle.  I'd given up playing ATGs for all the tanks that would drive past to get some 'action' while tanks were still around.   The only worse thing than him doing this, is the fact the squad didn't go 'WTF are you doing?' and work out some defense tactics.  That's not a squad, it's a collection of guys who happen to have the same tag. Squads RIP.

    But I think you don't understand that point of view as you mentioned 'attacking resupply' as a bad thing.  That is what made WWIIOL different, it was a good thing.  Having resupply, having to drive troops into the city etc is what made WWIIOL unique.   It's what made us use the big map the game gave us.  Having long supply lines that could be attacked intead of magically teleporting troops into direct combat range.  You could end up fighting in the middle of nowhere, run special missions to cut off supply with a group of 5-10 people (ATG's, inf, tanks etc.), real squad work working closely with buddies.   How much is that needed with the zerg fest that's needed now with MSP and AOs.  And it's variety doing that, instead of the always the same battles now, surround town with trucks, spawn, swarm.   As you like the simplified version, I can understand your support of it and maybe why you can't see why diehard old fans keep coming here to post comments (and to keep an eye on any game changes) and why they actually LIKED the old system. 

    You have no idea how I wish those newbies (no fault of their own, just not the game they wanted) kept leaving instead of the Rats turning WWIIOLinto a FPS small box battle generator to cater to the more general FPS instant action crowd.  Yeah it was a much bigger market, but WWIIOL just doesn't stack up so well against them (netcode, graphics, animation etc.) where before it was unique and had no real competition and thus a rather large, stable and loyal playerbase.   Sometimes being unique in a smaller niche is a better thing than being the bottom player on a bigger field, as the Rats layoffs and slower development after the big game changes seem to indicated.   It was twice the game (tactics etc) in the old days with four times the players.  I'd still be playing now as it was unique.

     

  • angriffangriff Member Posts: 154

    Originally posted by Pauker

     
    I never said, that it is a game not worth playing - but its very frustrating to see what the developers did with their game in the past - and as the worst part - didn´t even show with one single word, that they know what went wrong.

     

     

    Oh, a word about server activity - or the lack of it; just show me one single player who really is believing that nowadays are more players online than - lets say 2 or 3 years ago. And before 5 or 6 years ago there was more players than before 2 years. - But rats didn´t have learned from it.

     

     

    Thats why i think it should be mentioned at a place, where the "Censorship" of the Rat-Mods having no effect. (I´ve tried long enough to post what many players dont like at the game - but many post simply "dissapeared" from the public-eyes due to their Mods.  Well, its way easier to put critism under the carpet - instead of discussing problems with the players.)

     

     

    Oh - i do not "prevent" potentially other players from playing that game, when just open my mouth and speak freely about my opinion of the game (which is - or better to say - was, a great game - but by holding back what going on in game and dont telling it to potential players seems to me the same as lying to new players) - All the points i´ve mentioned here - btw, you also know, that this is by far not the whole list to complain about - all these points where mentioned in the Rats forum before - but when they dont think its worth to answer to the points - then, i do not have any problem to make it "public to a wider audience".

     

    Interesting discussion on many valid points.  I have played this game since day one of launch. I had a prepurchase from the February preceeding.  I even got the game to boot up first day or so of trying -lol.  I did have to buy a new graphics card and more memory so my actual adventure into the game was a day so so later. 

    My love this game has always been the concept and the hope of a true naval wargame.   I have sent a plethora of research material to the RATs on French Vessels and naval combat in the English Channel in hope.  No other game has even attempted such interesting concept that one day years from now will be done by some other team that is less ADD afflicted.  One month they are making advances in increasing the game then they suddenly shift course leaving the attempt half finished and do something entirely different.  The reason is always small group but in actuality is it is the wrong group.  I think the game started with a few friends that did not want to move or were not asked to move to Virginia when  Warbirds sold.  I may be entirely wrong but these few freinds held onto each other way too long making poor business decisions.  In on stretch they had more producers for the game then programmers.  They currently, I am told,  have no true vehicle model programmers on staff.

    As far as the mods will I can tell you the only time I post in these forums is when one of their mods have decided that they are Gods Gift to CRS and decide to censor the feedback that the game has become increasingly less enjoyable.  If you decide to say anything that the game needs to change direction then you are banned or the thread is deleted.  You are correct in saying the Rats only are interested in what a few core players want and that is what the game is left with.

    Right now my biggest problems other than unbelievable worthless advances in tree technology over game mechanics or weapons is limited supply, spawn in timers and player concentrators.  The game has tactical flaws in that map is too limited for the units provided.  The Rats fear from their small approved player feedback that the maps too fast.  Well I have news France fell pretty fast and if France and Britain had their act together during the phoney war incursion into Germany pressed home the attach it would have been over for Germany just as fast.  That is what modern manuver warfare is.  This game was the first to model that truely in an online game.  True manuver combat was first in this game.  The size of their map made it possible but they lost or stalled their way in this and placed effort on player concentrators. 

    Player concentrators was built around the concept of huge battles ever day every time.  This is what the Rats heard from their small group of fanbois and thought it was the best thing ever.  The problem is that War is not that way.  Sure there are epic battles for hardened locations or important  objectives  but hundreds of small fights every day.  You hear about the big ones Bastongne, Kursk, Kharkov, Stalingrad but the war lasted 5 years.  Everyday small units would capture a town and create a small salient in the line.  If it was significant enough Generals would move units against it and then you would have an epic battle , Kursk, Karkov, etc. 

    This is how this game should be but it is not.  Instead of putting larger and larger map for players to manuver unts and fight over important crossroads the Rats took to player concentrators and a smaller map.  This turned the game into just another small room fighting game.  They are dime a dozen.  If the map is won too fast make the map larger.  The fight longer.  Currently the Axis have a strategic advantage in small developed map which concentrates their forces in a near end game and allows them to defend their game winning factory locations.  The Allies split their forces and have to maintain a continously stretched line.  The game map is simply too small once a breakthrough is had the French are back to end game of the Gamelin campaign (French Commander until Dunkerque).  After that point the French raised Weygand to command in chief and he invented  new tactics  used to this day that could have in fact stopped the Germans had he started a week or so earlier or had the British spent much  real effort in redeploying units to France and repatriated the evacuated French.   In this game when the map gets to that point the game could shift to that phase but no it ends.  Players are never given the chance to see if Weygand could have been successful or the time to regroup and defend Paris itself.

    The Rats missed this point entirely.  There is no Paris and no London in the map.  Even though there is modeled territory and your computer has to load everytime you load the game terrain to the Italian border it is never used.  They had the concept correct for modern warfare of that day needing large land masses like the expanse of France, Russian plains, African desert but stayed too long with their mix of  buddy dev group and never created enough room in the map for their concepts to succeed.  Instead they went back to the old method of small room concentrators.

  • PaukerPauker Member Posts: 60

    Yup Angriff, i fully agree with your latest post about the Censorship in their forum and that Rats just listen to their favourite players (regardless how small this group compared to the majority is. Well the "favourite players-group" is getting bigger - not because of an increase of the numbers in it, but because of annoyed ppl who are leaving, because Rats give a damn about what they think)

     

    Of course it creates a better feeling when having a bunch of brainless "yes-sayers" having around instead of critical customers. Of course players who opens up their mouth and frankly speak out what they don´t like in that game need to go away, thats why the Mod-Gods are filtering a quite share and just let the yes-boys went through. No wonder the game is providing less fun with every patch. Rats are not interested in what makes players to turn away from game as long as they have enough aplauds from their yes-sayers. Unfortunatly, they don´t make a difference of how much ppl are playing the game, as long as they still have a prepaid subscription.

     

    The result of the new patch and the eye-candy trees is such a result of yes-sayers. I bet, that instead of having "upgraded trees and grass in game an improved gameplay would help the total players numbers more than their "crap".

  • SzyporynSzyporyn Member Posts: 122

    Have to agree with all you say Tontoman - really really is sad!

    But this game currently alive has NOTHING to do with the original game - nothing at all!

    I personally got 7 of my friends to join the game, made a squad that had roughly 200 members (20-30 online each night) - all that is over and all of them feel CRS screwed us over.

    It's a new game, and it's for a totally different segment of the market - which is where CRS is making their biggest mistake. They are trying to make a historically correct hardcore simulation game look interesting to people who dig CoD etc....

    FFS Realize that THOSE GUYS WILL NEVER LOVE THIS GAME!

    Add that with their total ineptitude in marketing etc etc....

    I could pull better solutions out of my @ss TBH, but their "pride" has gotten the better of them, to the point where it is more important to them than selfpreservation

  • SzyporynSzyporyn Member Posts: 122

    And I really like when those guys who cannot be bothered with running 200m start defending the way the game has become - that's a lot of fun.

    It really should be quite easy.

    Launch day: 30.000 players tried to get online - massive break-down we end up with a player base (active mind you) around 15.000 (CRS's own numbers from back then)

    Zeelands patch day: > 4000 players online that night - LOADS of fun!

    -2004 Euro low pop hours (in the day time in Europe): At least a few hundred guys online, I know because I played 18 hours a day from 2002-2004 (could play at work and I am serious I did play roughly 18 hours a day.) All with relations and a real interest in their brigades and towns etc...

    2004-2010: An increasing decline in their player base to the point where we now have 50 guys online in low-pop if we are lucky!!!

    Figuring out if they are doing something wrong should not be rocket science ehh....

  • vladakovvladakov Member Posts: 710

    i liked the trial, was waiting for the big update.

     

    But wtf, those developers should start doing their F*cking job

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