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Preorder goodies getting a little out of hand?

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  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056
    Originally posted by Blurr
    <snipped childish and insulting rant>
    Or we could get some common sense and stop freaking out about free items that don't really affect the game. The majority of said items will even be replaced in early gameplay. It's not like they're forcing you to preorder, nor are they forcing you to buy multiple copies. People need to give their head a shake. Just because you want all these preorder items, doesn't mean you need them. Do parents not teach their kids this type of thing anymore?

    The stuff that is packaged with pre-orders could instead have been available in-game for players to earn by playing the game. Instead of that, they are used as bait to secure pre-orders.

    That speaks to Cryptic's motives clearly enough. No moustache-twirling is required. Cryptic is in business to make money - not to make gamers happy. How they make money is irrelevant - just how much and how fast.

    The reason you defend it - I leave for the readers to judge.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • neorandomneorandom Member Posts: 1,681

     making gamers that pre order happy = making money, they might not make you happy, but your just some cynical board flamer who wont ever play the game anyway by the way you like to bash in every post!

  • BlurrBlurr Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter


    The stuff that is packaged with pre-orders could instead have been available in-game for players to earn by playing the game. Instead of that, they are used as bait to secure pre-orders.
    That speaks to Cryptic's motives clearly enough. No moustache-twirling is required. Cryptic is in business to make money - not to make gamers happy. How they make money is irrelevant - just how much and how fast.
    The reason you defend it - I leave for the readers to judge.



     

    Well I'm disappointed that you're resorting to namecalling, personally I thought you had a bit more integrity than that.

    Sure the stuff could have been available ingame for players to earn, but when Gamestop demands Cryptic give them an exclusive in-game preorder item, then what do they use?

    This is what people seem to totally gloss over in their effort to paint Cryptic as a villain bilking them out of money. Preorder items are usually demanded by the RETAILERS. Notice that Atari, the company that is publishing the game, has NO exclusive preorder bonus item. They get their cut of the game no matter who people buy it from. The exclusives are incentives to buy from a specific retailer, ie Gamestop. Is this really that hard to understand?

    "Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000

  • neorandomneorandom Member Posts: 1,681

     i think atari should have given the best pre order bonus, since the more copies they sell themselves the more money they make (no big cut given to the retailers!)

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056
    Originally posted by Blurr


    Well I'm disappointed that you're resorting to namecalling, personally I thought you had a bit more integrity than that.
    Did I call you a name?
    Sure the stuff could have been available ingame for players to earn, but when Gamestop demands Cryptic give them an exclusive in-game preorder item, then what do they use?
    Nothing. Just sell the game.
    This is what people seem to totally gloss over in their effort to paint Cryptic as a villain bilking them out of money. Preorder items are usually demanded by the RETAILERS. Notice that Atari, the company that is publishing the game, has NO exclusive preorder bonus item. They get their cut of the game no matter who people buy it from. The exclusives are incentives to buy from a specific retailer, ie Gamestop. Is this really that hard to understand?

    There is no need for these special offers. No major game outlet is going to refuse to sell a huge IP game like STO.

     

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • BlurrBlurr Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

    Originally posted by Blurr


    Well I'm disappointed that you're resorting to namecalling, personally I thought you had a bit more integrity than that.
    Did I call you a name? Now what, you're playing innocent? I really am losing any respect I once had for you.
    Sure the stuff could have been available ingame for players to earn, but when Gamestop demands Cryptic give them an exclusive in-game preorder item, then what do they use?
    Nothing. Just sell the game.
    This is what people seem to totally gloss over in their effort to paint Cryptic as a villain bilking them out of money. Preorder items are usually demanded by the RETAILERS. Notice that Atari, the company that is publishing the game, has NO exclusive preorder bonus item. They get their cut of the game no matter who people buy it from. The exclusives are incentives to buy from a specific retailer, ie Gamestop. Is this really that hard to understand?

    There is no need for these special offers. No major game outlet is going to refuse to sell a huge IP game like STO.

     



     

    You're ignoring the point. Retailers won't refuse to sell the game, but they do have a signifigant amount of discretion with the way they handle your game, so it's in a developer's interest to create a good relationship with them. When they ask for an exclusive preorder bonus, developers certainly take the idea into consideration. Players also want a bonus for preordering, they want something unique to make them feel special and stand apart from the "average" player. They want a token to show off that they were early adopters. So the retailers want them, and the players want them, that gives Cryptic a good incentive to provide them. This isn't very complicated. Cryptic didn't invent the idea, either. Practically any game on Gamestop's site has some sort of preorder bonus.

    Also, what alot of the complainers seem to be overlooking is that they're FREE . Yes, Cryptic is running a 'big scam' to steal your money by giving you free stuff ...

    "Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056
    Originally posted by Blurr 
     You're ignoring the point. Retailers won't refuse to sell the game, but they do have a signifigant amount of discretion with the way they handle your game,
    They want to the game to sell, since they are making money on the sales.
    so it's in a developer's interest to create a good relationship with them. When they ask for an exclusive preorder bonus, developers certainly take the idea into consideration. Players also want a bonus for preordering, they want something unique to make them feel special and stand apart from the "average" player. They want a token to show off that they were early adopters. So the retailers want them, and the players want them, that gives Cryptic a good incentive to provide them. This isn't very complicated. Cryptic didn't invent the idea, either. Practically any game on Gamestop's site has some sort of preorder bonus.
    Also, what alot of the complainers seem to be overlooking is that they're FREE .
    Not free - available at no additional charge for a pre-order. Which, if it is digital download, you can't return, so you have commited to the purchase.
    Yes, Cryptic is running a 'big scam' to steal your money by giving you free stuff ...

    They aren't giving you anything. By your own admission, it's in their benefit to offer the perks.

    If it's a gift - give it away to all who ask for it - without any strings attached.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • BlurrBlurr Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

    Originally posted by Blurr 
     You're ignoring the point. Retailers won't refuse to sell the game, but they do have a signifigant amount of discretion with the way they handle your game,
    They want to the game to sell, since they are making money on the sales.
    so it's in a developer's interest to create a good relationship with them. When they ask for an exclusive preorder bonus, developers certainly take the idea into consideration. Players also want a bonus for preordering, they want something unique to make them feel special and stand apart from the "average" player. They want a token to show off that they were early adopters. So the retailers want them, and the players want them, that gives Cryptic a good incentive to provide them. This isn't very complicated. Cryptic didn't invent the idea, either. Practically any game on Gamestop's site has some sort of preorder bonus.
    Also, what alot of the complainers seem to be overlooking is that they're FREE .
    Not free - available at no additional charge for a pre-order. Which, if it is digital download, you can't return, so you have commited to the purchase.
    Yes, Cryptic is running a 'big scam' to steal your money by giving you free stuff ...

    They aren't giving you anything. By your own admission, it's in their benefit to offer the perks.

    If it's a gift - give it away to all who ask for it - without any strings attached.



     

    It's a gift for preordering, a way of Cryptic saying thank you for your enthusiasm. There's very little, if nothing, in this world that's actually free with no strings attached. Obviously they can't just give you the item for preordering and then let you cancel the preorder, that would defeat the purpose, would it not?

    As far as digital downloads not being returnable, that's an issue with the digital retailer, not Cryptic or STO. As far as I know, most games won't let you return an MMO anyways. I presume if you're worried that you won't like the game, but want to preorder for the open beta key, then I suggest preordering at a non-online location, or obtaining an open beta key some other way.

    "Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000

  • ManarixManarix Member UncommonPosts: 98
    Originally posted by Blurr


     Cryptic didn't invent the idea, either. Practically any game on Gamestop's site has some sort of preorder bonus.

    Well this sums up the discussion for me. Almost everyone does it already so it is ok to copy it.

    Just where in time did we lose our own hobby (drums) to the marketing and stockmarket bobos. Or am i really that old fashioned that i want to make a difference in a game by my way of playing it in an evenly levelled playing field, not by some cosmetic preorder bonus item or likewise?

    I refuse to give up fighting RMT, preorders, early access, and everything else invented in todays MMO. Personally by not purchasing any of the above. And on the forums by giving my opinion about it.

    MMO should be about gaming again. Made by developpers with a gaming heart, and published by companies that strife to keep their games on top, afloat and supported for years to come. And my theory is that the millions of dollars will then come by itself.

    Currently playing browser games. Waiting for Albion Online, Citadel of Sorcery and Camelot Unchained.
    Played: almost all MMO pre 2007

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056
    Originally posted by Manarix


    Well this sums up the discussion for me. Almost everyone does it already so it is ok to copy it.
    Just where in time did we lose our own hobby (drums) to the marketing and stockmarket bobos. Or am i really that old fashioned that i want to make a difference in a game by my way of playing it in an evenly levelled playing field, not by some cosmetic preorder bonus item or likewise?
    I refuse to give up fighting RMT, preorders, early access, and everything else invented in todays MMO. Personally by not purchasing any of the above. And on the forums by giving my opinion about it.
    MMO should be about gaming again. Made by developpers with a gaming heart, and published by companies that strife to keep their games on top, afloat and supported for years to come. And my theory is that the millions of dollars will then come by itself.

    Amen to that.

    The thing is, not everyone posting here is a gamer. I am sure of that. The positions they espouse run contrary to the interests of gamers in general and favour the companies, instead.

    Free speech and all, but it is dishonest.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by Terranah


    It seems like the preorder thing is getting a little out of hand.  Some of the preorders are offering things I really want, but will there be no other way to get them?  For instance, I got the Constitution class star ship with my deluxe preorder through Gamestop, but now D2D has several preorder goodies, one of which is TOS uniforms unless I am misunderstanding them.

    I agree, it would be better to reward long and faithful playing than forcingpeople to pre-order or buy a deluxe edition to get a lot o.

     

    This is not the first game with things like this but things are getting silly now.

    Are they afraid that the game will suck so badly that they want to maximize the pre-orders or do they have serious economical issues or something? Or is it just another silly trend?

  • ginfress01ginfress01 Member Posts: 203
    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter



    Free speech and all, but it is dishonest.

     

    Nothing dishonest but then again you were dishonest in making a claim that a close one died and you couldnt write a STO article as being offered because of that. Yet you post drivel after drivel against games...

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,061
    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter


    Amen to that.
    The thing is, not everyone posting here is a gamer. I am sure of that. The positions they espouse run contrary to the interests of gamers in general and favour the companies, instead.
    Free speech and all, but it is dishonest.



     

    You got us. We're all secretly working for Cryptic. The jig is up. There is NO possible way that anyone can disagree with you unless they are secretly working for a company.  /sarcasm off

    Sorry, but that comment by  MMO Hater was so ignorant that I couldn't resist.

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • ginfress01ginfress01 Member Posts: 203

    Guess those who like pre-order goodies work for cryptic

    Guess those who like RMT work for cryptic

    Guess those who state they are liking STO work for cryptic

    Guess those who like STO after launch work for cryptic

    Guess only those who follow and agree MMO-troll are real gamers, the rest of us are working for crypic, Oh no someone disagrees with my point of view so he must be the enemy and post on behalf of cryptic.

     

    How's the griefing going MMO-Troll?

  • BlurrBlurr Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

    Originally posted by Manarix


    Well this sums up the discussion for me. Almost everyone does it already so it is ok to copy it.
    Just where in time did we lose our own hobby (drums) to the marketing and stockmarket bobos. Or am i really that old fashioned that i want to make a difference in a game by my way of playing it in an evenly levelled playing field, not by some cosmetic preorder bonus item or likewise?
    I refuse to give up fighting RMT, preorders, early access, and everything else invented in todays MMO. Personally by not purchasing any of the above. And on the forums by giving my opinion about it.
    MMO should be about gaming again. Made by developpers with a gaming heart, and published by companies that strife to keep their games on top, afloat and supported for years to come. And my theory is that the millions of dollars will then come by itself.

    Amen to that.

    The thing is, not everyone posting here is a gamer. I am sure of that. The positions they espouse run contrary to the interests of gamers in general and favour the companies, instead.

    Free speech and all, but it is dishonest.



     

    Wait what? Are you guys actually serious with this stuff? "when did we lose our own hobby"? What kind of question is that? Do you guys realize how inane you sound?

    The MMOs you can "make a difference" in, are very very few, essentially only sandbox games. If that's what you want, you're in the wrong forum. You think a cosmetic item that will likely be replaced very quickly is going to give an uneven playing field? Do you know what cosmetic means? Manarix is exactly the type of person who my little story above was for. You act like preorders are some great villain to be fought like the Lord of the Rings. I think perhaps you've been playing too many MMOs too much. Oh noes, they're giving us free stuff it's terrible.I don't know what fantasy world you think you were living in, where there was no preorders or early access or RMT, but I don't know if I've ever seen a game comlpletely without any of those, and I've been playing MMOs since the genre was created and before. Heck I can even tell you who came up with the term MMORPG and you won't like it because everyone thinks he's evil too. (Actually he probably is, but that's besides the point).

    You are saying you want a game made by a company that's struggling to keep it's game alive? What sense does that make? I mean, there's plenty out there. Ryzom, A Tale in the Desert, Istaria, etc. Heck DDO is now a F2P model, and that's actually a pretty good game.

    Honestly, this really isn't the place to wage your little war against every MMO ever made.

    And MMO_Doubter, come on, really? You're trying to imply that anyone who defends Cryptic is working for them? What happened to you man? Just a couple of weeks ago I was pointing out that while you seem to try to bash everything you can get your hands on, you used to at least do it with some sense of decency. Now you're saying anyone who disagrees with you must be a Cryptic employee. That's just sad.

    You're trying to tell us we're not gamers? Where do you get off with that type of arrogance? Last time I checked you weren't in charge of deciding who gets to play what. Seriously, what right do you have to tell someone else they are or are not a gamer? It's like you're sitting at your table in the cafeteria looking at the other groups of people enjoying eachothers company and saying "They're not cool enough to sit with me". Can we move beyond the highschool mentality? I thought we, as a community, were supposed to be beyond this type of garbage.

    Seriously, the arguments made at this point are:

    • Preorders are a trick to steal your money, even though they're FREE
    • Preorders are responsible for ruining the MMO genre
    • Anyone who says different must be a cryptic employee
    • Anyone who disagrees isn't a "real gamer"

    None of those make any sense.

    "Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000

  • ManarixManarix Member UncommonPosts: 98

    I am not going to reply to your wall of text. Clearly we disagree and i will leave it at that.

    Currently playing browser games. Waiting for Albion Online, Citadel of Sorcery and Camelot Unchained.
    Played: almost all MMO pre 2007

  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 3,973

    I agree with the OP. The companies seem to be more interested in making money than making a good game. Which is understandable, but when you start screwing over your customers by dangling rewards, getting them to spend money because your product is low quality, eventually the players are going to catch on. I hope.

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • AthcearAthcear Member Posts: 420

    A whole bunch of incentives to pre-order and buy the game based on hype and not wait until it's released so you know how it really is...  Maybe they don't trust that the game is good enough that people will want to play it by its own merits.

    Do not give in.  Stop letting these companies think we're pinatas to smack and take money from.  Make them earn our patronage again.  They take us for granted and so they can peddle crap on us.  Take the power back!

    Important facts:
    1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
    2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
    3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
    4. Community is more important than you think.

  • neorandomneorandom Member Posts: 1,681

     hang on let me find my hip waders, its getting deep in here.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,061
    Originally posted by Blurr




     And MMO_Doubter, come on, really? You're trying to imply that anyone who defends Cryptic is working for them? What happened to you man? Just a couple of weeks ago I was pointing out that while you seem to try to bash everything you can get your hands on, you used to at least do it with some sense of decency. Now you're saying anyone who disagrees with you must be a Cryptic employee. That's just sad.
    He has always been like this. He's pulling the same stunt over in the TOR forums. Basically, if you disagree with him then you should leave because you have no place in MMO Doubter world
    You're trying to tell us we're not gamers? Where do you get off with that type of arrogance? Last time I checked you weren't in charge of deciding who gets to play what. Seriously, what right do you have to tell someone else they are or are not a gamer? It's like you're sitting at your table in the cafeteria looking at the other groups of people enjoying eachothers company and saying "They're not cool enough to sit with me". Can we move beyond the highschool mentality? I thought we, as a community, were supposed to be beyond this type of garbage.
    Seriously, the arguments made at this point are:

    Preorders are a trick to steal your money, even though they're FREE
    Preorders are responsible for ruining the MMO genre
    Anyone who says different must be a cryptic employee
    Anyone who disagrees isn't a "real gamer"

    None of those make any sense.

    It  never has made any sense, but it has never stopped folks from doing it anyways. They have their agenda and since they can't get away with it on an official forum they come here.

     

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • stevekr21stevekr21 Member Posts: 50

    To be truthful and honest, any1 who wants to spend the extra money on the CE of any game should be given the oppurtunity to do so. It thier right to spend all that money. And depending on what you get out of it should not make a differance in the long run unless the game really really really sucks and you regret spending all that money.

    And i have to agree with Blurr, not all of us who post on here work for studios. And if we did....well lets just leave it at that.

    Thirdly, as to the original question posted, I agree that cryptic has gone a little crazy with the preorder goodies. I think no matter what CE you buy you should get it all imho. You should not be limited to a D2D CE or hard copy CE. Give it all!!!!

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056
    Originally posted by ktanner3


    It  never has made any sense, but it has never stopped folks from doing it anyways. They have their agenda and since they can't get away with it on an official forum they come here.

     

    My agenda is to keep players from being scammed by the companies shoveling out garbage with IP frosting.

    Are you seriously suggesting that no one who posts here is doing so to improve sales of this game? That no companies have employees posting on game fora to do positive PR for what they are selling?

    I never said everyone was. Are you saying no one is?

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • BlurrBlurr Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter


    My agenda is to keep players from being scammed by the companies shoveling out garbage with IP frosting.
    Are you seriously suggesting that no one who posts here is doing so to improve sales of this game? That no companies have employees posting on game fora to do positive PR for what they are selling?
    I never said everyone was. Are you saying no one is?



     

    Maybe you should take your agenda to the General forum instead of going in every MMO section and bashing/trolling the forum-goers who happen to like whatever game they're talking about? Don't you think it's hypocritical that you're trying to warn us about supposed "company employees" doing positive PR, when you admit that you're going around specifically doing negative PR?

    Sure you can be a paranoid conspiracy theorist and skulk around the forums trying to battle these supposed mystery employees who may or may not exist, but honestly it's like peeing your pants. Sure we might be able to tell that you're angry, but you've got to live with the pee on your leg.

    I guess maybe you think you're too good for any MMO out there (that's a laugh by the way), so you have to come around and start fights, insult people, etc. But what do you really think you're going to accomplish? All you're doing is starting flame wars and making ignorant comments. Do you think that your messages of hate are going to actually affect any game in any way, considering this site?

    If you don't like it, go make your own MMO. Stop trying to ruin our fun and let us enjoy the game or not as we see fit.

    "Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000

  • noxxnoxx Member UncommonPosts: 120

    reguardless how you feel about pre-orders.....dont do this one.....trust me its not that good......it has a life-expect. that TR had, if not shorter

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056
    Originally posted by Blurr



    If you don't like it, go make your own MMO. Stop trying to ruin our fun and let us enjoy the game or not as we see fit.

    You are free to block my posts any time you want.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

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