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*Crafting* MMO

Alright, I've tried LOTS of MMOs. I'm looking for an MMO that has good, integrated crafting. By integrated, I mean it has to be a main part of the game. The best crafting game i've found thus far is "A Tale in the Desert." You had to "physically" create your own items. Your skill is what dictated the quality of the items, NOT how much of x, y, and z you could gather after you got a specific recipe.

I want a game where crafting takes skill, and is a desired thing in the community. Perhaps the best stuff can only be crafted so the combat folks have to pay the crafters.

So to end this rant/plea, I'm tired of the typical MMOs where the crafting is an afterthought and they went with the generic gather/click/create crafting system. PLEASE save me.

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Comments

  • AurukAuruk Member Posts: 36

    EvE has a good crafting system, Everything player made.  if you dont mind spaceships.

  • GTwanderGTwander Member UncommonPosts: 6,035

    Besides ATitD, there is Wurm, and I recently got into FoM.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
    Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  • docsaintlydocsaintly Member Posts: 9

    Yes, EVE is one of the MMOs that managed to devour months of my life. I found though, that at the end you really couldn't progress very well unless you opened yourself to attack by going into low security zones.

    My problem with this one is that the game devs had no problems with people scamming / can stealing etc. Even in high sec space, someone could kamikazee you and come back in another ship to steal your stuff before you knew what was going on.

  • djazzydjazzy Member Posts: 3,578

    Not sure if there is any mmo that is dedicated to crafting like you want. EQ2 has a pretty involved crafting system, might try that game out.

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Member UncommonPosts: 2,551

    Star Wars Galaxies, Fallen Earth, and Saga of Ryzom have great crafting systems as I've heard.

  • NizurNizur Member CommonPosts: 1,417

    Vanguard, EVE and Ryzom have the best crafting systems out of the MMOs I've tried.

    Current: None
    Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
    Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
    Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN

  • midmagicmidmagic Member Posts: 614

    Second life. You get to craft what ever you want. Even get to control the rights to copies of your crafting.

    Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.

  • decoy26517decoy26517 Member Posts: 313

    From what I remember Vanguard does have the best crafting system. They made an actual mini game out of it. There's a trial available if your interested, I wouldn't buy it before you finished the whole trial though.

    "World of Warcraft is the perfect implementation of this genre." - Hilmar Petursson. CEO of CCP.

  • docsaintlydocsaintly Member Posts: 9

    Hmm alrighty, Here's my thoughts:

     

    Wurm - Very small game, hard to get into. Crafting system seems a bit laborious. I'm not opposed to this, but I don't want to have it become a second job.



    Face of Mankind - Very promising, but again it seemed that this is just another point / click / create. Also, the game is small, war torn, and the maturity of the community seems to be less than that of Knight Online and World of Warcraft ninja looters.

    Galaxies - Played it, got into it, and then they changed it. They were constantly changing the mechanics of the game while I was learning to play and I got sick of it.



    Ryzom - Promising, but it was going through some ownership changes and it was getting annoying. The interface seemed like it was from the 1980's. It was fun, but the community was too small to make it fun to play.



    Vanguard - I actually BOUGHT this game because it was so hyped up, and yet I found the crafting system was still just point-click-create. Yes, there was a bit of a mini game to it. A lot of it was down to luck and not skill.



    EVE - I already explained why i didn't like this one, but it seems that I should just suck it up and go back to it.



    Second Life - The name of the game is the very reason that I don't want to play it. It seems to be very involved and you REALLY have to spend a lot of time to get further along. Also, it wasn't very user friendly and seemed a bit clicky.



    So this narrows it down to EQ2 / EVE. I was intruiged by EQ2, but I couldn't get the trial going.



    I'm not posting this to rant about a bunch of games, I'm just trying to give an idea of why I didn't like them so that I might get more "in-tune" responses.

  • SweetZoidSweetZoid Member Posts: 437

    Vanguard: saga of heroes has the best crafting system ever made. You actually follow the crafting process and  you can get complication that makes its harder. Its a lot fun ;)

     

    All other MMORPGS with craftings only have the system: Get 2 ores, go to the smith,choose item,Done! = Boring.

  • RageaholRageahol Member UncommonPosts: 1,127

     Fallen Earth works crafting into the game very well...Time and resources go into each crafted item. However you don't have to sit at a bench while you are crafting.

    image

  • docsaintlydocsaintly Member Posts: 9

    Sorry, I really have to disagree. Neither of them are that spectacular. Have either of you played "A Tale in the Desert"?



    If you want to make a shovel, you have to lay the metal on the slab, use different hammers and different hit strengths to form it properly. The closer you get it, the higher quality it is. THIS is what crafting should be. While "puzzle" crafting is still better than the old style click-create crafting, it's still not good enough.



    I want crafting to require SKILL. If you can't draw a straight line to save your life, you shouldn't (and probably won't be able to) create a sword properly. But maybe you're great at blowing glass, so that could be your "specialty"

  • midmagicmidmagic Member Posts: 614

    eq2 is point and click... and click... and click.

    There is nothing special there aside from a highly repetitive mini-game. It used to be interesting that a player could kill themselves crafting. However, when death was all but eliminated the mini-game went from a silly need to pay attention to a button smash.

    The only really interesting item creation system is second life just because a player gets to design the items more or less from scratch to be what ever they want. It is more like a graphic design mini-game. Don't let the name fool you. This is not a grind game unless a player allows it to be one. The game is a socialization game that is meant to be a real life simulation and the name is a reflection of that.

    Considering most MMO combat is mostly a numbers check. Does a player "skill" matter when the character swings the sword? Not at all. There is some limited combos and character positioning skill but the stuff that "matters" is by the numbers. The skill is mostly team work.

    Crafting is most a merchant mini-game to acquire money. There are many games where crafting is highly desired (though not much by high end raiders) but, like combat systems, there is very little player skill involved. Non-item achievement games desire crafters the most, like eve and old UO (not sure about current) simply because items are expected to be lost.

    When combat becomes more than click and watch in MMOs then maybe crafting will get a closer look. Most of this has to do with server limitations, game engine limitations, and network limitations than it does with the ability to actually create more "skill" based systems.

    Goodluck with your search. Though, I don't expect to see a skill based crafting system in any item based achievement game for quite a while and item deterioration games would be hard pressed to incorporate one just because of the amount of items needed to be created. EQ2 sort of had one and they ditched for very good reasons.

    Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.

  • wisesquirrelwisesquirrel Member UncommonPosts: 282

    As long as I am in the mood to translate my vision into the rare language or lengthy posts, I'll give this topic a whirl.

    Our current crafting

    We gather X, sometimes Y and later on we add the usual additional Z, we click our tool or get to these and click create and maybe do a crappy minigame at the most.

     

    My Dream MMO Crafting

    Yeah, I got my dream MMO and basically all my ideas are ripped off from my dream MMO vision.

    Instead of specific items being needed for a recipe, why not specific categories?

    Say you need to make a spear, in our current crafting you would need the Oak stick IT MUST BE OAK, a BIG SPEARHEAD, IT MUST BE THE 'BIG SPEARHEAD" none other and of course "this specific rope". And these are not obtained from mobs but rather you but them from NPCs, static, boring, makes no sense, and the Mobs drop an endless amount of Junk items that can only be sold to NPCs for little money for they have NO USE.

    In my dream MMO Junk items would not exist, or at least these would have a use, no longer are you using specific stick, specific spearhead and specific rope.

    Now all the recipe demands is a "Rope Type" items, "Stick" and "Spearhead", You could use an oak stick or maybe a pine stick instead, each of these 2 would give the weapon different bonuses once made, say the recipe says the final weapon will have 5 base pierce attack but if you use oak stick in the recipe it will have 2 additional attack., but if you use pine stick your weapon would end up being more durable (Last longer before it breaks and you have to get a new one), now we can get exotic, remember that boar tusk that was useless and you sold fro 2 copper?, why not make it our spearhead?, it will give the weapon a 5 bonus to the pierce attack or maybe you want a raptor claw which may make the weapon a little faster with the special raptor claw's properties and then you put these 2 together with Rookwood vine (Rope).

    Exotic weapons, rarely would any weapons be the same even if they were made from the same recipe, gatherers would hunt and go to exotic far away places for rare items to later sell at a high price to the local blacksmith player so he can make an epic weapon.

    'Ok in order to get you the shield I will need Forbiddenrook ore from the Death Mountain Cliffs in which the ghouls hide and lizard's tongue to put it together and givie it versatality and I will also need Bucksheep horn for the shield's strenght to excell."

    Your typical fantasy weapon.

  • docsaintlydocsaintly Member Posts: 9

    I appreciate your response. I agree fully. That's why i thought i'd try to draw upon the community to get some opinions. Personally, I can't wait for games where everything is down to skill and "levels" don't exist.



    I guess now I just have to pick if there's one I can settle for.



    I really appreciate all the responses.

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 7,131

    I'm a huge fan of crafting as well and though I've never played A Tale in the Desert, I can honestly say Star Wars Galaxies has one of the most intriguing crafting systems of any MMO that I have played. Just some insight into the amount of tasks involved in crafting in SWG...

    1) Resource Gathering is still run of the mill to start out, as Traders can get samples of just about every type of material you can use as soon as you start out. As Traders level up though, they can craft machines that actually harvest materials for you, which require credits ( SWG money ) and power to operate.

    2) As your Trader continues to level up, your schematics get more and more complicated. Eventually, you'll need to build factories as the end products require duplicate items which you can't create without a factory.

    3) Resources are constantly changing, not only in quality, but in existance. Every resource has a 7 day shelf life so to speak before the game shuffles them around, renames them and throws in different qualities. I just started playing SWG again, but theres quite a few planets and about 50-100 different types of resources on each planet.

    4) Then we end this highlight with the different types of Traders. You have 4 kinds of crafting available but only 2 character slots per server. So if you do decide to play, you can play 2 Traders, a Trader and a Combat profession or whatever combination you like. The different types of Traders are Domestic ( Social Clothing / Food Buffs ), Structure ( Buildings / Tools ), Droid Engineer ( Droids / Weapon Enhancements ) and Weaponsmith ( Weapons / Armor ).

    Granted, its still gathering and what not, but the fact you have a resource mini game of finding the best quality resources, plopping down gatherers to collect it and crafting having experimentation tables to increase several different item factors such as duration and buff quality for foods, increased resource gathering or hopper size for gathering equipment and so on.

    Just an added benefit would be the Beast Mastery profession which allows you to create pets and mounts from an Incubator which in turn allows you to change creature color, skills and so forth.

  • docsaintlydocsaintly Member Posts: 9

    Yea, it's still just a glorified click-create to me though. I'm not saying it couldn't be fun, it's just not what i'm looking for.



    This is quite a bit like Ryzom as far as the quality of components go.

  • ozmonoozmono Member UncommonPosts: 1,211
    Originally posted by docsaintly


     
    Alright, I've tried LOTS of MMOs. I'm looking for an MMO that has good, integrated crafting. By integrated, I mean it has to be a main part of the game. The best crafting game i've found thus far is "A Tale in the Desert." You had to "physically" create your own items. Your skill is what dictated the quality of the items, NOT how much of x, y, and z you could gather after you got a specific recipe.
    I want a game where crafting takes skill, and is a desired thing in the community. Perhaps the best stuff can only be crafted so the combat folks have to pay the crafters.
    So to end this rant/plea, I'm tired of the typical MMOs where the crafting is an afterthought and they went with the generic gather/click/create crafting system. PLEASE save me.
     

    You've said you've already played ATITD but if your looking for another game where almost everything has to be crafted as opposed to given via loot, wurm is your best bet in my opinion. That said it is still pretty much a "gather/click/create crafting system" although it's extensive, you feel like your items are worth more because there is a higher need for crafting items and the ability to improve items rather than craft a million useless items makes it a little less painless.

     

    I do recall having fond memories of Vanguards crafting but I also remember the type of loot you got from corpses and for that reason crafting in Vanguard didn't feel like it was or could be the main game. It felt like a better version of wow or EQII although I do concede it was a little more than the "gather/click/create crafting system"

     

    I suppose puzzle pirates might be worth a look too although the game is a little to abstract for my liking.

  • GilgameeshGilgameesh Member UncommonPosts: 412

    Ryzom, Fallen Earth, Vanguard.

    Ryzom: the entire skilling process is a bit grindy but the best feature of ryzom crafting is that the recipes are not known. To explain better:the crafter knows what type of resoorces and quantity he need to make a specific thing but the best recipe must be found thru experimenting with different resource grades, given the rule that the highest grade combined not always will give the best results. That end up with thousands different items that can be crafted and, because everything is player crafted, there is not a single crafter in ryzom that has ever spoiled the best recipes. Add to this a different way to gathering materials: no point anclick but an entire skill tree dedicated to the foragers that requires to win a mini game against the resource node (that can even kill you). Crafter can sign their own stuff with their name and a description. No class restrictions in what you can craft.

    Hard to master, grindy to execute. No repair allowed and fixed durability (also part of the recipe to discover).

    Fallen Earth:  you can make almost everything, new training books included, veichles and training horses. Recipes are fixed but complex, require a good amount of time. Gathering is average, point a node and click or skin a mob. You can queue up to 20 crafting jobs that can require hours or days to complete and they will do even when offline. Everthing used in game is generally player crafted with some rewards as exceptions. No class restrictions in what you can craft.

    Average to master, easy to execute. Repair allowed.

    Vanguard: the most usual crafting of the 3 mmo mentioned. You have to use benchs and worktables. Recipes are fixed. The crafting can require (and will) your intervention to avoid different situations. Fun to see how your character react to some crafting issue. Gathering is average, point and click or skin a mob (if you have skinning as one of your choosen professions). Not everything used in game is player crafted because of  the usual 'epic' stuff you can obtain from quests (not sure if actually this has got some change). Restrictions in what you can craft, so not everything is available to you.

    Easy to master, hard to execute. Repair allowed.

     That's my 2 cents on the 3 crafting i have seen more deeply.

     EDIT: ATITD is a dedicated crafting MMO so will be difficult for youto find something very similar. Anyway, vecause of this, maybe the more extensive crafting that can satisfy you should be Fallen Earth, given the huge amount of things (almost everything) you can craft.

    Anyway, all 3 games have a trial, so look and see by yourself.

     

    image
    Nickname registered on www.mynickname.org

  • docsaintlydocsaintly Member Posts: 9

    I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

     

    I've actually played all three of these.

    Personally, I found Fallen Earth to be VERY disappointing.

    It got hyped up so much, yet I spent two hours in the game and didn't get to touch a shred of crafting. When I asked the community about it, they basically said "That's how it is" and that I shouldn't expect things to move fast. Sure, I like the idea of being able to craft while offline (one of the things that kept me hooked on EVE), but i don't want it to be a "side" thing that I have to wait a few days for (the reason I finally left EVE).

    Ryzom - I couldn't agree more about it being a bit grindy. Really the reason I left is that all the friends i made in my short time of playing the game dispersed while the game was going through its most recent change of hands.

    Vanguard - Another game I was sorely disappointed with. It was touting the best crafting system in all the reviews, but when you go to do it, it's just another mini-game crafting system.

     

    And yea I know ATITD is a dedicated crafting MMO (the reason I left), but really it wouldn't be hard to implement into ANY game. It's just that all the game creators treat crafting as an afterthought. ~Sigh~ If only I made games...

  • AionloversAionlovers Member Posts: 4

    Sam Raimi spoke with MTV News about his upcoming Warcraft movie, and while he didn't confirm (or deny, we guess) the whole subtitle thing, he did mention a new writer.

    Robert Rodat is apparently putting a screenplay together -- he's best known for writing Saving Private Ryan (and of course if we can get a Warcraft movie as good as that Spielbergian epic, we'll all be happy), and he's also penned Fly Away Home and The Patriot. Most recently, says his Wikipedia page, he did some work on 10,000 B.C., though if you saw that movie, you probably wouldn't be able to tell, anyway -- it was terrible.

    Raimi says he wants to stay faithful "to the Horde and the Alliance and the mythology that takes place in the game," as well as "choose one or some of the lands that are portrayed in the game with as much accuracy and authenticity as possible.

    " He calls Rodat a great character writer, and says a great character-based story within the world of Azeroth is his goal. Sounds good.

    The picture above is the only art we've ever seen of the movie (it was presented at BlizzCon a few years ago), but since then, it sounds like the movie has changed quite a bit, so we'll have to wait and see what Rodat and Raimi are coming up with.

     

  • LansidLansid Member Posts: 1,097
    Originally posted by SweetZoid


    Vanguard: saga of heroes has the best crafting system ever made. You actually follow the crafting process and  you can get complication that makes its harder. Its a lot fun ;)
     
    All other MMORPGS with craftings only have the system: Get 2 ores, go to the smith,choose item,Done! = Boring.

    This... Vanguard crafting was pretty damned fun.

    I hated EQ2's (at release era) when you could get one-shotted and die because you were making paper.

    "There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."

  • skeaserskeaser Member RarePosts: 4,097
    Originally posted by Lansid

    Originally posted by SweetZoid


    Vanguard: saga of heroes has the best crafting system ever made. You actually follow the crafting process and  you can get complication that makes its harder. Its a lot fun ;)
     
    All other MMORPGS with craftings only have the system: Get 2 ores, go to the smith,choose item,Done! = Boring.

    This... Vanguard crafting was pretty damned fun.

    I hated EQ2's (at release era) when you could get one-shotted and die because you were making paper.

     

    Was it EQ2 that made you craft each individual chain of chain link armor at launch?

    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


  • lordzelmanlordzelman Member Posts: 124

    eq2 had awesome crafting. i knew ppl that just crafted all day..

  • godseek3rgodseek3r Member Posts: 76
    Originally posted by lordzelman


    eq2 had awesome crafting. i knew ppl that just crafted all day..



     

    Agreed

    Playing - Champions Online
    Unsure Of - Darkfall, Star Trek Online
    Waiting For - Star Wars: The Old Republic, All Points Bulletin
    Played - Age Of Conan, Everquest II, Mabinogi, Tabula Rasa, Star Wars Galaxies, World Of Warcraft

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