I have now read through 2 of Gink's posts, and they all equal the same thing. "Boohoo! People that don't have the time to clear 3 hours of trash have the same gear as me. I am no longer God of a virtual world, the only place I feel like I'm special because I can flaunt my epix to teh noobz." And this post is coming from a person who was in AQ and Naxx 40. I was in Naxx40 when Patchwerk was basically a game of "Guess which tank is going to need heals next.". I was in Naxx40 when they recalculated the damage and Patchwerk was one shotting the best geared tanks in the game. I was in AQ40 when C'thun was essentially invincible. Get yourself a straw and suck it up, princess. By the way, I can tell from your threads that you never were and never have been in any "World first" guilds. They wouldn't put up with the amount of whining you do. For a person that loves EQ so much, you sure spend a lot of time here bitching about WoW and not playing EQ. And while we're at it, let's talk about your precious EQ now....
I played EQ from Day 1. I worked at an Electronics Boutique, so I actually had the game a day before the servers went live. I was in the #1 guild on Solusek Ro rigt up until I left the game for WoW. We were clearing Time and things like Qvic, Tacvi, etc.. I got a little bored with WoW not too long ago, and got nostalgic for some EQ fun, so I bought the game again and resubbed. When I started EQ back in the day, you were LUCKY to make maybe 1.5/2 levels a day if you were in a really good grind group. Now, You can go from 1-80 in 2 days SOLO with a merc. You can finish up the last 5 levels in a day with a good group. Talk about retardedly easy. So please, before you come on here and tell us how easy everyone else's game is compared to your precious EQ, realize EQ is a watered down version of what it used to be. Telling someone their guild sucks because the were repeatedly trained by another guild that wanted to be D-bags and steal their boss mobs just shows me you must be a 12 year old kid. But, then again, you're now playing the game when there are maybe 200 players on a server, and most zones are ghost towns.
In conclusion, GTFO.
What a long post. I'm not talking about current EQ, I'm talking about original EQ. You should have saved your breath.
And also, the server you played on was a carebear server. Real EQ players were on the PVP servers.
Wow. Huge surprise you were on a PvP server....so you could further flaunt your e-peen by no doubt killing noobs. Did PvP even exist....I mean even on PvP servers? I never heard about it....ever.
And yes, while I am unhappy about the direction that WoW is going, I don't come on the forums of random websites to spout how bad everyone else is, and how super great I am. I have a self esteem that isn't tied up in a game, so I guess that probably helps.
As to whether or not having played EQ makes me thing about WoW.....it sure does. I wish WoW would implement AAs......it would differentiate those of us who have put in our time from those that have been playing a month. I also, however, don't miss someone noobing it up in a group and causing me to lose a level, or having to regrind the same xp over for 20 mins because of it. I don't like people being able to willingly train you while you're trying to kill something. I also HATED the fact that we had to SHARE raid instances....."Grats! You're at max level, and are ready to begin raiding. Now, please contact the other 5 guilds in your raiding bracket and go ahead and synch your schedules so that everyone can have exactly 2.5 hours in each raid instance per week....oh and hope that no pugs are on that can clear what you need to progress, because they won't ask.". Bleh.
Wow. Huge surprise you were on a PvP server....so you could further flaunt your e-peen by no doubt killing noobs. Did PvP even exist....I mean even on PvP servers? I never heard about it....ever.
And yes, while I am unhappy about the direction that WoW is going, I don't come on the forums of random websites to spout how bad everyone else is, and how super great I am. I have a self esteem that isn't tied up in a game, so I guess that probably helps.
As to whether or not having played EQ makes me thing about WoW.....it sure does. I wish WoW would implement AAs......it would differentiate those of us who have put in our time from those that have been playing a month. I also, however, don't miss someone noobing it up in a group and causing me to lose a level, or having to regrind the same xp over for 20 mins because of it. I don't like people being able to willingly train you while you're trying to kill something. I also HATED the fact that we had to SHARE raid instances....."Grats! You're at max level, and are ready to begin raiding. Now, please contact the other 5 guilds in your raiding bracket and go ahead and synch your schedules so that everyone can have exactly 2.5 hours in each raid instance per week....oh and hope that no pugs are on that can clear what you need to progress, because they won't ask.". Bleh.
There used to be good WoW players back when I was still playing. Back when BWL and AQ and Naxx40 were in the game, that is when WoW was a bit more challenging.
PvP was on PvP servers in EQ, unlike the WoW servers where no one does it.
EQ content wasn't instanced, so players always wanted to kill each other over something, even on the non-PvP servers people would want to attack other guilds.That is what distinguishes a real PVP game from a fake PVP game.
In WoW, you probably would go off and gank newbies for fun, because the game didn't provide any reason to engage in PVP.
In EQ, people fought to survive usually, to control PVE zones, or to get back at people in certain guilds. Because EQ was a PVP game, guilds would be at war with each other, and would have to kill each other on site. It wasn't like meaningless PVP where you fight someone for honor points or some other useless and artificial system such as the one in WoW.
Wow. Huge surprise you were on a PvP server....so you could further flaunt your e-peen by no doubt killing noobs. Did PvP even exist....I mean even on PvP servers? I never heard about it....ever.
And yes, while I am unhappy about the direction that WoW is going, I don't come on the forums of random websites to spout how bad everyone else is, and how super great I am. I have a self esteem that isn't tied up in a game, so I guess that probably helps.
As to whether or not having played EQ makes me thing about WoW.....it sure does. I wish WoW would implement AAs......it would differentiate those of us who have put in our time from those that have been playing a month. I also, however, don't miss someone noobing it up in a group and causing me to lose a level, or having to regrind the same xp over for 20 mins because of it. I don't like people being able to willingly train you while you're trying to kill something. I also HATED the fact that we had to SHARE raid instances....."Grats! You're at max level, and are ready to begin raiding. Now, please contact the other 5 guilds in your raiding bracket and go ahead and synch your schedules so that everyone can have exactly 2.5 hours in each raid instance per week....oh and hope that no pugs are on that can clear what you need to progress, because they won't ask.". Bleh.
There used to be good WoW players back when I was still playing. Back when BWL and AQ and Naxx40 were in the game, that is when WoW was a bit more challenging.
PvP was on PvP servers in EQ, unlike the WoW servers where no one does it.
EQ content wasn't instanced, so players always wanted to kill each other over something, even on the non-PvP servers people would want to attack other guilds.That is what distinguishes a real PVP game from a fake PVP game.
In WoW, you probably would go off and gank newbies for fun, because the game didn't provide any reason to engage in PVP.
In EQ, people fought to survive usually, to control PVE zones, or to get back at people in certain guilds. Because EQ was a PVP game, guilds would be at war with each other, and would have to kill each other on site. It wasn't like meaningless PVP where you fight someone for honor points or some other useless and artificial system such as the one in WoW.
What you are describing is exactly why the EQ community was so fucking toxic and people hated each other. Not because awesome game mechanics promoted great gameplay, but limited raid content forced people to hate each other in order to advance.
I am not one bit surprised that you are pinpointing one of the major flaws in EQ and heralding it as something spectacular. Get over your epeen already.
Wow. Huge surprise you were on a PvP server....so you could further flaunt your e-peen by no doubt killing noobs. Did PvP even exist....I mean even on PvP servers? I never heard about it....ever.
And yes, while I am unhappy about the direction that WoW is going, I don't come on the forums of random websites to spout how bad everyone else is, and how super great I am. I have a self esteem that isn't tied up in a game, so I guess that probably helps.
As to whether or not having played EQ makes me thing about WoW.....it sure does. I wish WoW would implement AAs......it would differentiate those of us who have put in our time from those that have been playing a month. I also, however, don't miss someone noobing it up in a group and causing me to lose a level, or having to regrind the same xp over for 20 mins because of it. I don't like people being able to willingly train you while you're trying to kill something. I also HATED the fact that we had to SHARE raid instances....."Grats! You're at max level, and are ready to begin raiding. Now, please contact the other 5 guilds in your raiding bracket and go ahead and synch your schedules so that everyone can have exactly 2.5 hours in each raid instance per week....oh and hope that no pugs are on that can clear what you need to progress, because they won't ask.". Bleh.
There used to be good WoW players back when I was still playing. Back when BWL and AQ and Naxx40 were in the game, that is when WoW was a bit more challenging.
PvP was on PvP servers in EQ, unlike the WoW servers where no one does it.
EQ content wasn't instanced, so players always wanted to kill each other over something, even on the non-PvP servers people would want to attack other guilds.That is what distinguishes a real PVP game from a fake PVP game.
In WoW, you probably would go off and gank newbies for fun, because the game didn't provide any reason to engage in PVP.
In EQ, people fought to survive usually, to control PVE zones, or to get back at people in certain guilds. Because EQ was a PVP game, guilds would be at war with each other, and would have to kill each other on site. It wasn't like meaningless PVP where you fight someone for honor points or some other useless and artificial system such as the one in WoW.
Wow......just wow to both of you. And the point of both of you talking about the old days like it's 50 years ago is?
Games change, get over it. MMO's are evolving games. Just because you don't like the direction it's going doesn't mean that the way YOU think it should be going is the correct way.
Ginkeq, your a broken record. Ganksinatra, for a guy who seems to be hating on him just because he doesn't like the way WoW's going and then you agreeing with him is kinda retarded.
Originally posted by Vulnero87 Wow......just wow to both of you. And the point of both of you talking about the old days like it's 50 years ago is? Games change, get over it. MMO's are evolving games. Just because you don't like the direction it's going doesn't mean that the way YOU think it should be going is the correct way. Ginkeq, your a broken record. Ganksinatra, for a guy who seems to be hating on him just because he doesn't like the way WoW's going and then you agreeing with him is kinda retarded.
I have to give them some props. I can't remember shit from those days. Certain things stick out but I envy their memory. Wish I could remember stuff that vividly I did in a game that long ago.
I blame it on too much partying or it could be I didn't care about it as much as they did. Probably a combination really.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Originally posted by Vulnero87 Wow......just wow to both of you. And the point of both of you talking about the old days like it's 50 years ago is? Games change, get over it. MMO's are evolving games. Just because you don't like the direction it's going doesn't mean that the way YOU think it should be going is the correct way. Ginkeq, your a broken record. Ganksinatra, for a guy who seems to be hating on him just because he doesn't like the way WoW's going and then you agreeing with him is kinda retarded.
I have to give them some props. I can't remember shit from those days. Certain things stick out but I envy their memory. Wish I could remember stuff that vividly I did in a game that long ago.
I blame it on too much partying or it could be I didn't care about it as much as they did. Probably a combination really.
I'm not trying to say they don't have valid points because, if anything, I agree with them. The thing is that both of them are pissing into the wind because complaining about how WoW WAS won't change the fact that this is what WoW is. It won't get better in their terms, but I'm pretty sure it'll get more main stream. i.e. easy mode
Oh, don't get me wrong. They both have their up and down sides (old and new WoW). I hated the grind to get to bosses, and enjoy the fact thatthere is very little trash comparatively now. I have hard modes if I want a challenge. I just see the future if it keeps going the way it is though. There will be one mob in the instance, called the "iWin Button". It will have 1 hp, and it will drop every piece of loot in the instance. The hard mode will have 5 hp.
Honestly, I'd like to see UO get the 3D treatment.....without Trammel
Wow. Huge surprise you were on a PvP server....so you could further flaunt your e-peen by no doubt killing noobs. Did PvP even exist....I mean even on PvP servers? I never heard about it....ever.
And yes, while I am unhappy about the direction that WoW is going, I don't come on the forums of random websites to spout how bad everyone else is, and how super great I am. I have a self esteem that isn't tied up in a game, so I guess that probably helps.
As to whether or not having played EQ makes me thing about WoW.....it sure does. I wish WoW would implement AAs......it would differentiate those of us who have put in our time from those that have been playing a month. I also, however, don't miss someone noobing it up in a group and causing me to lose a level, or having to regrind the same xp over for 20 mins because of it. I don't like people being able to willingly train you while you're trying to kill something. I also HATED the fact that we had to SHARE raid instances....."Grats! You're at max level, and are ready to begin raiding. Now, please contact the other 5 guilds in your raiding bracket and go ahead and synch your schedules so that everyone can have exactly 2.5 hours in each raid instance per week....oh and hope that no pugs are on that can clear what you need to progress, because they won't ask.". Bleh.
There used to be good WoW players back when I was still playing. Back when BWL and AQ and Naxx40 were in the game, that is when WoW was a bit more challenging.
PvP was on PvP servers in EQ, unlike the WoW servers where no one does it.
EQ content wasn't instanced, so players always wanted to kill each other over something, even on the non-PvP servers people would want to attack other guilds.That is what distinguishes a real PVP game from a fake PVP game.
In WoW, you probably would go off and gank newbies for fun, because the game didn't provide any reason to engage in PVP.
In EQ, people fought to survive usually, to control PVE zones, or to get back at people in certain guilds. Because EQ was a PVP game, guilds would be at war with each other, and would have to kill each other on site. It wasn't like meaningless PVP where you fight someone for honor points or some other useless and artificial system such as the one in WoW.
What you are describing is exactly why the EQ community was so fucking toxic and people hated each other. Not because awesome game mechanics promoted great gameplay, but limited raid content forced people to hate each other in order to advance.
I am not one bit surprised that you are pinpointing one of the major flaws in EQ and heralding it as something spectacular. Get over your epeen already.
Come on, EQ was like a real world.
There are not an unlimited amount of resources in the real world. There are conflicts that arise from this fact.
Why should an MMORPG be designed so that there isn't any conflict? Resources are a natural source of conflict, so limited resources definitely has its place in a PVP oriented MMORPG.
Sure, it was not that smart on the PVE servers, but I can't see a game with a meaningful PVP system without it. Even a shitty game like WoW could remove their instances and I bet you people would enjoy their PVP servers.
There are just no fun PVP elements in games like WoW.
You don't guard zones, there are no zones worth guarding
You don't kill players in the world, there is no reason to kill them.
Guilds don't fight each other anymore, there is no reason for guilds to fight.
Need I go on?
To make people PVP they had to instance it, give people points, give people rewards. They turned PVP into a meaningless farm activity, into something that does not occur naturally anymore.
Originally posted by Vulnero87 Wow......just wow to both of you. And the point of both of you talking about the old days like it's 50 years ago is? Games change, get over it. MMO's are evolving games. Just because you don't like the direction it's going doesn't mean that the way YOU think it should be going is the correct way. Ginkeq, your a broken record. Ganksinatra, for a guy who seems to be hating on him just because he doesn't like the way WoW's going and then you agreeing with him is kinda retarded.
I have to give them some props. I can't remember shit from those days. Certain things stick out but I envy their memory. Wish I could remember stuff that vividly I did in a game that long ago.
I blame it on too much partying or it could be I didn't care about it as much as they did. Probably a combination really.
I'm not trying to say they don't have valid points because, if anything, I agree with them. The thing is that both of them are pissing into the wind because complaining about how WoW WAS won't change the fact that this is what WoW is. It won't get better in their terms, but I'm pretty sure it'll get more main stream. i.e. easy mode
Haha, who said I wanted WOW to change?
That game is too far gone to be fixed.
Fact is that players who want an MMORPG with a real PVP system need to stand up against these MMORPGs that provide fake and meaningless instanced PVP. WoW will always be an MMORPG for dumb players, and grandmothers and grandfathers, and old people, and bad players. I understand that. But I doubt all the games will have dumb players as their target audience.
This classic case of person saying i am right which is not bad thing,but then said person follows up my opinion is only that matters and your opinions don't matter.What is the point of trying to have convo.What have we learned
-He likes EQ 1
-He does not like WoW
-He will never like Wow
-This most important one He doesn't see place for a game like WoW.
I don't play WoW,It took me two weeks to realize that i will never catch up to others players and Blizzard would continue to pull the carrot every time i got close,plus trying to competitive in WoW is like get second job ,a job where you pay blizzard 14.99 a month.Wow is not the game for me,Guild wars not the game for me,Aion is not game for me.I don't like the design choices but i see the merits of that game.OP seems that world revolves around his point of view.
When the reality is many of the things he is championing ,a large majority players hate it that why it is not in WoW or EQ 2.The funniest part is many things he likes where design flaws that devs vowed they would change in the next game which is why EQ 2 does not play EQ 1.
You hate WoW design,You hate WoW, You like EQ now what. We can't convinced WoW is good game and Even the most avid WoW haters on this board would admit games like WoW has place for gamers who like that type game.You said your piece i will leave with something you can't argue with
WoW 11.5 million subs
Aion 3.5 million subs
Linage 2 1.2 million subs
Warhammer and AoC both had over 700,000 subs
EQ at its peak 500,000 subs,Today around 150,000 subs.
What do those numbers tell you,they are millions of people who don't share your view. "Millions!!!!!!".
Some people say that WoWs PVE system provides better content, because it is intsanced and they can have scripts etc. within the instance. However, EQ had scripted events too, all of the Planar zones and even some old world zones had player triggered events during raids. After looking back at EQ's raid content vs WoWs raid content, I've realized how cheap and easy it is to make instances. Look at how small a WoW zone is compared to an EQ zone: That one EQ zone is larger and has more content than 10-20 WoW raid instances combined. Anyone who claims that WoW content has more depth is clueless. And that's just one zone. I'd imagine that a few EQ raid zones are larger than all of WoWs cheap instances combined. These instances let them provide cheap PVE content in zones that are plain and lack any depth. The boss generally just happens to be sitting around, near the entrance. They've given up on even providing a zone or environment for most of their raid content. And a lot of their instances simply are missing any regular NPCs that players usually have to clear. WoW's been reduced to cheap instances with bosses sitting alone in empty zones that lack any depth. It's not even close to what EQ's PVE zones were.
Take both games line up both raid/dungeon encounters and put them side by side. Its almost painfully obvious how superior and more well scripted fights in WoW are. Now if you took eq II instances there about on par. Everything seems better "back in the day" but frankly thats just an illusion.
Originally posted by Vulnero87 Wow......just wow to both of you. And the point of both of you talking about the old days like it's 50 years ago is? Games change, get over it. MMO's are evolving games. Just because you don't like the direction it's going doesn't mean that the way YOU think it should be going is the correct way. Ginkeq, your a broken record. Ganksinatra, for a guy who seems to be hating on him just because he doesn't like the way WoW's going and then you agreeing with him is kinda retarded.
I have to give them some props. I can't remember shit from those days. Certain things stick out but I envy their memory. Wish I could remember stuff that vividly I did in a game that long ago.
I blame it on too much partying or it could be I didn't care about it as much as they did. Probably a combination really.
I'm not trying to say they don't have valid points because, if anything, I agree with them. The thing is that both of them are pissing into the wind because complaining about how WoW WAS won't change the fact that this is what WoW is. It won't get better in their terms, but I'm pretty sure it'll get more main stream. i.e. easy mode
Haha, who said I wanted WOW to change?
That game is too far gone to be fixed.
Fact is that players who want an MMORPG with a real PVP system need to stand up against these MMORPGs that provide fake and meaningless instanced PVP. WoW will always be an MMORPG for dumb players, and grandmothers and grandfathers, and old people, and bad players. I understand that. But I doubt all the games will have dumb players as their target audience.
A challenging MMORPG maybe?
No mmo is hard. No mmo is very challenging. The only real thing that separates each game is the time it takes to accomplish things. MMO's in general are dumbed down rpgs. Sorry to say but it is true.
So basically Gink is saying i was a hardcore wow raider and all of you people who have real jobs or families that prevent you from being me suck. You opened up AQ good for you do you want a cookie. I don't think I have ever stepped foot in there. I don't raid and either do most of my friends. We are all working adults with families we play the game to relax we don't want a game to be a part time job. When you are successful and fulfilled in RL this virtual fluff doesn't have much if any meaning. MMOs are entertainment nothing less nothing more if a game no longer entertains you then move and find something else. It is just petty to come here and keep trashing a game it is not the games fault you burned through content. I highly doubt a game can be created that will keep some people occupied for more than a few weeks.
Current WOW players invest more time than you would invest playing a game like Everquest. There's a sheer amount of trivial instances that players in WoW log on for. If you add the time up, it takes more time, but the content is easier.
The issue isn't that you have more of a real life, but that all of the time you spend in WoW is basically spent doing content that is not challenging at all anymore.
You just want shitty players to get the best gear, and you label us skilled players oh you label yourself a skilled player, oh LoL, someone whose only purpose here is moan and moan about gear, so much for for your skill as being losers or something, because we are competent and we think and know how to take care of raid content in these games. So they catered to dumb players, not "players with lives", get it right.
EQ days were hours of camping the same damned spot, hoping the boss spawns and then hoping he drops the rare loot. WoW provides 10s of dungeons and 10 or so raids. Hundred+ bosses at end level 83.
EQ provides only 1 instance of every boss so half of your time is waiting for a vacant slot in the camp for that boss. WoW allows multiple instances, so every team can give that boss a shot.
And you said EQ players spent less time in a game than WoW? Seriously, I have been there waiting 48 hours for a boss to spawn, just to be sure no one steals him.
Stop preaching to us about EQ. Many of us were there from EQ launch. We know what EQ was, it just wasn't what you are trying to paint.
Oh last and most important of all, stop trying to sneak in sentences like "we skilled players". Your only skill is zealous jealousy of people getting gear that you don't. Pretending you don't care for it is futile, your jealousy floods every page you write. A good player will look further than gear. A skilled player knows how to mix gear with other options to really perform. You don't.
Some people say that WoWs PVE system provides better content, because it is intsanced and they can have scripts etc. within the instance. However, EQ had scripted events too, all of the Planar zones and even some old world zones had player triggered events during raids. After looking back at EQ's raid content vs WoWs raid content, I've realized how cheap and easy it is to make instances. Look at how small a WoW zone is compared to an EQ zone: That one EQ zone is larger and has more content than 10-20 WoW raid instances combined. Anyone who claims that WoW content has more depth is clueless. And that's just one zone. I'd imagine that a few EQ raid zones are larger than all of WoWs cheap instances combined. These instances let them provide cheap PVE content in zones that are plain and lack any depth. The boss generally just happens to be sitting around, near the entrance. They've given up on even providing a zone or environment for most of their raid content. And a lot of their instances simply are missing any regular NPCs that players usually have to clear. WoW's been reduced to cheap instances with bosses sitting alone in empty zones that lack any depth. It's not even close to what EQ's PVE zones were.
Guess you're not aware that two former EQ players created much of WOW's content, might've heard of them Tigole & Furor. If you don't then you weren't an old school EQ player. They made WOW everything EQ wasn't, that is easier and more streamlined. Everything SOE has done to EQ, EQ2 has been attempts to copy WOW to make their games better.
All that video shows me is a waste of time running around empty ugly hallways with nothing in them... fun stuff.
Ginq is not about content, not about anything, he is lamenting the loss of his epeens. He wants to be the one in a game, the god everyone else log in to worship. Give him a set of T11 now and he will stand in dalaran and spam the channels, asking ppl to inspect him. He will come telling us how great WoW is. He won't be playing, he is not playing. He wants the game to stop progression after he got the unique gear. It is all about him, him, him and again him.
Players should be somewhat unique in an MMORPG why so you can flex your epeen? LoL grow up boy and earn some self confidence, you do not need that shinny sword to pretend you are good, you are good in yourself, not in beggin Blizz to drop you a pixel or two, especially players who are better than other players. And so you pretend you are better? LoL, from what you write, I know I will never team with you, a typical loot whore.
If a shit guild can't clear newb zones like MC, why give them the same gear as someone who has cleared MC, BWL, and AQ? Oh? You are the one to judge who should get what? Says who everyone gets the same gear? Badge gear covers every slot? and is the same quality as heroic drops? Actually Gink, stop the bullshit, just tell us how to evaluate gear. You don't know anything, you just bullshit here moaning with jealousy
It's like you guys want an MMORPG that has some kind of progression, yet any player who wants to be distinct from trash players is all about "e-peen":. You do not want to distincy yourself, you want to have the loot exclusivity on the pretend excuse that you are better. We call that loot whore.
Tell me, why even play an MMORPG if you don't want to be different. I play to enjoy with people, not to discriminate and belittle others, calling them stupid or shitty, not like you. If you want equality, even if you are a shitty player, maybe play a genre like an FPS. I mean, giving everyone equivalent gear is equivalent to everyone having no gear at all. They don't belong in the whole genre if they expect not to do any work and have the same gear as everyone else. What have you done to the gaming community that deserves loot? Just b/c you come here to moan, just because you have the balls to call random people shitty? Just b/c of your endless babycrying out of jealousy? Just b/c of your desperate attempt to build some identity of yourself via dressing up a game avatar?
Go play barbie, you can dress him/her up in unique clothings (gear) you make yourself, you can be very unique. That is your game.
First you are no better player.
Second you know nothing about gear, just endless dreams and jealousy about pixels.
Third you do not understand WoW gameplay
Fourth you do not deserve special treatment
Fifth and foremost, you have no credential to judge others. Calling random people shitty does not make you any better than who you truly are, an insecure man with no self esteem who need to constantly moan here while secretly envy and lament gear gear gear gear gear gear gear gear gear....
So basically Gink is saying i was a hardcore wow raider and all of you people who have real jobs or families that prevent you from being me suck. You opened up AQ good for you do you want a cookie. I don't think I have ever stepped foot in there. I don't raid and either do most of my friends. We are all working adults with families we play the game to relax we don't want a game to be a part time job. When you are successful and fulfilled in RL this virtual fluff doesn't have much if any meaning. MMOs are entertainment nothing less nothing more if a game no longer entertains you then move and find something else. It is just petty to come here and keep trashing a game it is not the games fault you burned through content. I highly doubt a game can be created that will keep some people occupied for more than a few weeks.
Current WOW players invest more time than you would invest playing a game like Everquest. There's a sheer amount of trivial instances that players in WoW log on for. If you add the time up, it takes more time, but the content is easier.
The issue isn't that you have more of a real life, but that all of the time you spend in WoW is basically spent doing content that is not challenging at all anymore.
You just want shitty players to get the best gear, and you label us skilled players oh you label yourself a skilled player, oh LoL, someone whose only purpose here is moan and moan about gear, so much for for your skill as being losers or something, because we are competent and we think and know how to take care of raid content in these games. So they catered to dumb players, not "players with lives", get it right.
EQ days were hours of camping the same damned spot, hoping the boss spawns and then hoping he drops the rare loot. WoW provides 10s of dungeons and 10 or so raids. Hundred+ bosses at end level 83.
EQ provides only 1 instance of every boss so half of your time is waiting for a vacant slot in the camp for that boss. WoW allows multiple instances, so every team can give that boss a shot.
And you said EQ players spent less time in a game than WoW? Seriously, I have been there waiting 48 hours for a boss to spawn, just to be sure no one steals him.
Stop preaching to us about EQ. Many of us were there from EQ launch. We know what EQ was, it just wasn't what you are trying to paint.
Oh last and most important of all, stop trying to sneak in sentences like "we skilled players". Your only skill is zealous jealousy of people getting gear that you don't. Pretending you don't care for it is futile, your jealousy floods every page you write. A good player will look further than gear. A skilled player knows how to mix gear with other options to really perform. You don't.
Thing is according to his stats hes 23, which would have made him what, 13 when EQ was first released and pretty much a teen for 90% of the time he played the game. Hes pretty much living in a nostalgic world atm (as do a lot of us who played EQ though many of us see and understand the changes made in the genre, even if we dont really agree with them). Its easy to forget that what was great when you were a kid with no real responsibilities wont always feel as great when you get older.
EQ pretty much boiled down to finding a camping spot and spending hours on end there killing the spawns untill the XP became slow and it was time to move on. The game didnt require all this 'skill' he speaks of. It required persevernace. You had to be willing to wait for spawns and spend a few hours killing the same mobs over and over till you made that tiny amount of XP needed.
I was a member of EQ beta from phase 2 straight through POP, and while I loved the game for what it was, I can also point out what it was without glossing over anything. The game was a huge grind when it came to leveling. Death penalty wasnt something that necessarily made people play better as it only made them take less risk (why fight these even con mobs who might kill you when you can farm these lower con mobs and use less mana thus experiencing less downtime throughout the grind and not really worry about getting killed as much). Zones like Unrest were a bit hard in the first month or two, but once people got to that level and made their way there it was pretty safe and easy, even if a train or two happened while there.
Hell, by the third month you pretty much had to make reservation to get a spot at a camp. Most of you probably remember the whole zone wide "Camp Check!" shouts in chat, where someone would do a camp check and each area that was camped would respond with something like "Derv 2 camped".
The only thing that really worked for EQ was that it was pretty much the first of its kind. People still cling to it in hopes that another game like it will come along, as I do sometimes. But the reality of it is the market is growing and games such as classic EQ are niche at best, and many companies dont see it as a wise business endevour. Maybe down the line we will see other games in the spirit of EQ (like maybe more challenge with less downtime and a bigger world that isnt 80% instanced)
But yeah, to paint EQ as a game that required 'skill' and the such is misleading, specially when there are a lot of people who have played it for a long time and know exactly what the game was about.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
AQ40 was pretty awesome. But consider the cut and paste mentality that was most of BC raids. But seriously, WoW's PvE content is mostly rehashing of old ideas. How many versions of "don't stand in the fire" do we really need? The 5 mans basically re-use mechanics from the previous raids. There was plenty of innovation in Vanilla, but it's gotten stale.
Important facts: 1. Free to Play games are poorly made. 2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals. 3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE. 4. Community is more important than you think.
So basically Gink is saying i was a hardcore wow raider and all of you people who have real jobs or families that prevent you from being me suck. You opened up AQ good for you do you want a cookie. I don't think I have ever stepped foot in there. I don't raid and either do most of my friends. We are all working adults with families we play the game to relax we don't want a game to be a part time job. When you are successful and fulfilled in RL this virtual fluff doesn't have much if any meaning. MMOs are entertainment nothing less nothing more if a game no longer entertains you then move and find something else. It is just petty to come here and keep trashing a game it is not the games fault you burned through content. I highly doubt a game can be created that will keep some people occupied for more than a few weeks.
Current WOW players invest more time than you would invest playing a game like Everquest. There's a sheer amount of trivial instances that players in WoW log on for. If you add the time up, it takes more time, but the content is easier.
The issue isn't that you have more of a real life, but that all of the time you spend in WoW is basically spent doing content that is not challenging at all anymore.
You just want shitty players to get the best gear, and you label us skilled players oh you label yourself a skilled player, oh LoL, someone whose only purpose here is moan and moan about gear, so much for for your skill as being losers or something, because we are competent and we think and know how to take care of raid content in these games. So they catered to dumb players, not "players with lives", get it right.
EQ days were hours of camping the same damned spot, hoping the boss spawns and then hoping he drops the rare loot. WoW provides 10s of dungeons and 10 or so raids. Hundred+ bosses at end level 83.
EQ provides only 1 instance of every boss so half of your time is waiting for a vacant slot in the camp for that boss. WoW allows multiple instances, so every team can give that boss a shot.
And you said EQ players spent less time in a game than WoW? Seriously, I have been there waiting 48 hours for a boss to spawn, just to be sure no one steals him.
Stop preaching to us about EQ. Many of us were there from EQ launch. We know what EQ was, it just wasn't what you are trying to paint.
Oh last and most important of all, stop trying to sneak in sentences like "we skilled players". Your only skill is zealous jealousy of people getting gear that you don't. Pretending you don't care for it is futile, your jealousy floods every page you write. A good player will look further than gear. A skilled player knows how to mix gear with other options to really perform. You don't.
Thing is according to his stats hes 23, which would have made him what, 13 when EQ was first released and pretty much a teen for 90% of the time he played the game. Hes pretty much living in a nostalgic world atm (as do a lot of us who played EQ though many of us see and understand the changes made in the genre, even if we dont really agree with them). Its easy to forget that what was great when you were a kid with no real responsibilities wont always feel as great when you get older.
EQ pretty much boiled down to finding a camping spot and spending hours on end there killing the spawns the XP became slow and it was time to move on. The game didnt require all this 'skill' he speaks of. It required persevernace. You had to be willing to wait for spawns and spend a few hours killing the same mobs over and over till you made that tiny amount of XP needed.
I was a member of EQ beta from phase 2 straight through POP, and while I loved the game for what it was, I can also point out what it was without glossing over anything. The game was a huge grind when it came to leveling. Death penalty wasnt something that necessarily made people play better as it only made them take less risk (why fight these even con mobs who might kill you when you can farm these lower con mobs and use less mana thus experiencing less downtime throughout the grind and not really worry about getting killed as much). Zones like Unrest were a bit hard in the first month or two, but once people got to that level and made their way there it was pretty safe and easy, even if a train or two happened while there.
Hell, by the third month you pretty much had to make reservation to get a spot at a camp. Most of you probably remember the whole zone wide "Camp Check!" shouts in chat, where someone would do a camp check and each area that was camped would respond with something like "Derv 2 camped".
The only thing that really worked for EQ was that it was pretty much the first of its kind. People still cling to it in hopes that another game like it will come along, as I do sometimes. But the reality of it is the market is growing and games such as classic EQ are niche at best, and many companies dont see it as a wise business endevour. Maybe down the line we will see other games in the spirit of EQ (like maybe more challenge with less downtime and a bigger world that isnt 80% instanced)
But yeah, to paint EQ as a game that required 'skill' and the such is misleading, specially when there are a lot of people who have played it for a long time and know exactly what the game was about.
Seriously I do not believe in anything "fact" Gink said, is he 23 or 93? God knows, and maybe his mother cares not me.
Gink is just bitter, he wants to be different, he needs to be different, he will spray bullets all over the town to make him different, except that, unfortunately there are enough random town shooters, and he cannot be different. His only way to be different is to come here and tell us that he is different? Why? No explanation, just different.
As for EQ, it has its days. Back then it is about the only game of its kind. The PvE was dark mood terror, for me as an Ogre. Walking out as a shaman level 1, into the dark wilderness does create that sense of "freshness". Ability to meet random people and talk is fun, everyone talks, as it is about the only game we can talk like that, unlike spamming in pseudo 3D UO where everyone talks to everyone. Its a different game, in almost every aspect.
When we hit level 10s the feeling of novelty fades and irritation sets it. As a shaman I have to look at my spellbook, meditating after every pull. We are fighting along a coastline for crocodiles, b/c that is the only stupid mob that does not run away when down to 20% hp, no hunter or druid, no snaring and Ogres cannot be either. At level 20s we sit outside a dungeon for hours looking for a camp, and luckily healers like shaman (no priest class from Ogres) have better chances. And so on. EQ shows its color fast as a huge grind, the day I hit level 30. Every 5 levels from level 34 onwards, is a hell level, taking twice the time to get level thru.
We still play it back then, b/c it WAS the pioneer game, and given the kind of hardware we have, we cannot expect more.
Once SWG launches, once CoH launches, and once WoW launches, EQ is no longer worth playing even if its free. It has served its role in history. Like most old models, they are replaced. We respect EQ, we once find long days and weeks of pleasure sitting there till our hips complain. Not any more, we do not need to sit in front of the monitor for 48 hours b/c a guildie priest need his epic weapon quest done. In WoW we set up a raid thru calendar feature, log on just before the raid starts and summon everybody. 10 minutes later we start playing. PLAYING.
That is the game of my choice now, a game I play to enjoy, with every tool and feature optimised to let me focus on playing. I do not look down on EQ, it was the one in its days. It is no longer 1997, it is now 2009 almost 2010.
AQ40 was pretty awesome. But consider the cut and paste mentality that was most of BC raids. But seriously, WoW's PvE content is mostly rehashing of old ideas. How many versions of "don't stand in the fire" do we really need? The 5 mans basically re-use mechanics from the previous raids. There was plenty of innovation in Vanilla, but it's gotten stale.
Off hand I can think of phrasing, x-server LFG, as a couple of the latest new ideas.
The user interface of WoW is smooth, the ability to mod very dynamic and user friendly, I wish Microsoft is half as smooth there.
Every game is a rehash of another game. How many left buttons and right button pushes can you innovate.
We do not need rocket science or mozart creativity in a game, we just need fun. You fun =/= my fun at times.
Now do misread my post, I never say WoW is great. It is just a game for me to log on couple hours a day here or there. I do not carry my avatar with me when I log off, I do not resent not winning the roll on that uber helm of sleepless nights when I log off. Fact is, I seldom remember full spelling of names of zones or bosses. Its just a game, damn game.
This classic case of person saying i am right which is not bad thing,but then said person follows up my opinion is only that matters and your opinions don't matter.What is the point of trying to have convo.What have we learned -He likes EQ 1 -He does not like WoW -He will never like Wow -This most important one He doesn't see place for a game like WoW.
I don't play WoW,It took me two weeks to realize that i will never catch up to others players and Blizzard would continue to pull the carrot every time i got close,plus trying to competitive in WoW is like get second job ,a job where you pay blizzard 14.99 a month.Wow is not the game for me,Guild wars not the game for me,Aion is not game for me.I don't like the design choices but i see the merits of that game.OP seems that world revolves around his point of view. When the reality is many of the things he is championing ,a large majority players hate it that why it is not in WoW or EQ 2.The funniest part is many things he likes where design flaws that devs vowed they would change in the next game which is why EQ 2 does not play EQ 1. You hate WoW design,You hate WoW, You like EQ now what. We can't convinced WoW is good game and Even the most avid WoW haters on this board would admit games like WoW has place for gamers who like that type game.You said your piece i will leave with something you can't argue with WoW 11.5 million subs Aion 3.5 million subs Linage 2 1.2 million subs Warhammer and AoC both had over 700,000 subs EQ at its peak 500,000 subs,Today around 150,000 subs. What do those numbers tell you,they are millions of people who don't share your view. "Millions!!!!!!".
Typical response....sub numbers. IMO I bet they don't have near those numbers now, hence why they keep adding new easy-mode features to draw players back, not develop new ones. That was at their peak they had those numbers. And sub numbers don't make a game great. it just shows that there are lots of people out there that prefer mindless instant gratification over developing a character and having a deeper appreciation for the effort put into it. Instant gratification should of been left on console games and PC FPS games IMO. That's what they were made for after all.
I'm not saying that WoW shouldn't exist per say. Console players have just as much right to play MMO's if they wish as the rest of us. Hell, I love playing console games just as much as PC games too. But I just wish that every other company would stop trying to copy WoW in hopes of cashing in on the same outrageous success. It's just not possible unless you stray away from what makes an MMORPG what is known for, or at least WAS known for, and separated the genre from FPS and console games in the first place. MMO's are suppose to be about the journey, not the destination.
P.S. Never catch veteran players? In two weeks you could be level 60+ in WoW. In the right guild, you could have decent gear to allow you to compete in less than a month's time.
Seriously I do not believe in anything "fact" Gink said, is he 23 or 93? God knows, and maybe his mother cares not me. Gink is just bitter, he wants to be different, he needs to be different, he will spray bullets all over the town to make him different, except that, unfortunately there are enough random town shooters, and he cannot be different. His only way to be different is to come here and tell us that he is different? Why? No explanation, just different. As for EQ, it has its days. Back then it is about the only game of its kind. The PvE was dark mood terror, for me as an Ogre. Walking out as a shaman level 1, into the dark wilderness does create that sense of "freshness". Ability to meet random people and talk is fun, everyone talks, as it is about the only game we can talk like that, unlike spamming in pseudo 3D UO where everyone talks to everyone. Its a different game, in almost every aspect. When we hit level 10s the feeling of novelty fades and irritation sets it. As a shaman I have to look at my spellbook, meditating after every pull. We are fighting along a coastline for crocodiles, b/c that is the only stupid mob that does not run away when down to 20% hp, no hunter or druid, no snaring and Ogres cannot be either. At level 20s we sit outside a dungeon for hours looking for a camp, and luckily healers like shaman (no priest class from Ogres) have better chances. And so on. EQ shows its color fast as a huge grind, the day I hit level 30. Every 5 levels from level 34 onwards, is a hell level, taking twice the time to get level thru. We still play it back then, b/c it WAS the pioneer game, and given the kind of hardware we have, we cannot expect more. Once SWG launches, once CoH launches, and once WoW launches, EQ is no longer worth playing even if its free. It has served its role in history. Like most old models, they are replaced. We respect EQ, we once find long days and weeks of pleasure sitting there till our hips complain. Not any more, we do not need to sit in front of the monitor for 48 hours b/c a guildie priest need his epic weapon quest done. In WoW we set up a raid thru calendar feature, log on just before the raid starts and summon everybody. 10 minutes later we start playing. PLAYING. That is the game of my choice now, a game I play to enjoy, with every tool and feature optimised to let me focus on playing. I do not look down on EQ, it was the one in its days. It is no longer 1997, it is now 2009 almost 2010.
Aye, it was fun for its time, but that time has come and gone.
As for WoW, the game just got redundant for me and maybe others as well. Mostly what killed WoW for me was the end game. I like raiding, but its not the only thing I want to do. And there is only so many times you can roll an alt before you see all the content the lower levels have to offer. As for instances, I would like to see a bit more done with them if a company plans on making them pretty much the meat of a game.
But all in all I am one of those people who are just bored with the game no matter what content gets released for it. I am just one of those players who need a change of scenary and the challenge of learning something new/different (something that a lot of games miss the mark on these days seeing as they aim more toward being familiar to other games, which isnt a bad thing, just not what a few of us are looking for.)
As I have said before, Maybe someday developers will start copying the principles of WoW (taking good ideas and making them their own/differemt/better) rather than COPYING the game itself.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Seriously I do not believe in anything "fact" Gink said, is he 23 or 93? God knows, and maybe his mother cares not me. Gink is just bitter, he wants to be different, he needs to be different, he will spray bullets all over the town to make him different, except that, unfortunately there are enough random town shooters, and he cannot be different. His only way to be different is to come here and tell us that he is different? Why? No explanation, just different. As for EQ, it has its days. Back then it is about the only game of its kind. The PvE was dark mood terror, for me as an Ogre. Walking out as a shaman level 1, into the dark wilderness does create that sense of "freshness". Ability to meet random people and talk is fun, everyone talks, as it is about the only game we can talk like that, unlike spamming in pseudo 3D UO where everyone talks to everyone. Its a different game, in almost every aspect. When we hit level 10s the feeling of novelty fades and irritation sets it. As a shaman I have to look at my spellbook, meditating after every pull. We are fighting along a coastline for crocodiles, b/c that is the only stupid mob that does not run away when down to 20% hp, no hunter or druid, no snaring and Ogres cannot be either. At level 20s we sit outside a dungeon for hours looking for a camp, and luckily healers like shaman (no priest class from Ogres) have better chances. And so on. EQ shows its color fast as a huge grind, the day I hit level 30. Every 5 levels from level 34 onwards, is a hell level, taking twice the time to get level thru. We still play it back then, b/c it WAS the pioneer game, and given the kind of hardware we have, we cannot expect more. Once SWG launches, once CoH launches, and once WoW launches, EQ is no longer worth playing even if its free. It has served its role in history. Like most old models, they are replaced. We respect EQ, we once find long days and weeks of pleasure sitting there till our hips complain. Not any more, we do not need to sit in front of the monitor for 48 hours b/c a guildie priest need his epic weapon quest done. In WoW we set up a raid thru calendar feature, log on just before the raid starts and summon everybody. 10 minutes later we start playing. PLAYING. That is the game of my choice now, a game I play to enjoy, with every tool and feature optimised to let me focus on playing. I do not look down on EQ, it was the one in its days. It is no longer 1997, it is now 2009 almost 2010.
Aye, it was fun for its time, but that time has come and gone.
As for WoW, the game just got redundant for me and maybe others as well. Mostly what killed WoW for me was the end game. I like raiding, but its not the only thing I want to do. And there is only so many times you can roll an alt before you see all the content the lower levels have to offer. As for instances, I would like to see a bit more done with them if a company plans on making them pretty much the meat of a game.
But all in all I am one of those people who are just bored with the game no matter what content gets released for it. I am just one of those players who need a change of scenary and the challenge of learning something new/different (something that a lot of games miss the mark on these days seeing as they aim more toward being familiar to other games, which isnt a bad thing, just not what a few of us are looking for.)
As I have said before, Maybe someday developers will start copying the principles of WoW (taking good ideas and making them their own/differemt/better) rather than COPYING the game itself.
WoW is a game, which only accounts for a few idle hours a week when I have nothing else planned. If WoW folds up, if my ISP died, if I need to travel to work (a lot), I do not feel any loss.
I once played EQ, I left the game with thousands of plat, as I am a vivid trader of EC. I have 2 PCs at home (due to my work) and 2 accounts. One of my PC always have a trader in EC selling all the loots I get, who is also spamming "SoW, 1g per fix". You can't imagine how much fun and money there. I left at the end no remorse. Same for DAoC, same for SWG. When its time to go, just log out forever.
WoW will follow suit some day. Maybe when SW:ToR comes, maybe. No remorse, we all move on sometime. We all leave our parents, our school, our friends as we grow up, we move to new community, new states, new countries. Life goes on. WoW is nothing more than one element out of many after work activities. Games for that matter. Just Games. No reason why we have to treat it like death and life, like Gink did.
If no developer put up games worth the trouble to play, then I go play something else, other games. My sweetest memory is still Might and Magic: cloud of xeen and Might and Magic: darkside of xeen.
Comments
What a long post. I'm not talking about current EQ, I'm talking about original EQ. You should have saved your breath.
And also, the server you played on was a carebear server. Real EQ players were on the PVP servers.
Wow. Huge surprise you were on a PvP server....so you could further flaunt your e-peen by no doubt killing noobs. Did PvP even exist....I mean even on PvP servers? I never heard about it....ever.
And yes, while I am unhappy about the direction that WoW is going, I don't come on the forums of random websites to spout how bad everyone else is, and how super great I am. I have a self esteem that isn't tied up in a game, so I guess that probably helps.
As to whether or not having played EQ makes me thing about WoW.....it sure does. I wish WoW would implement AAs......it would differentiate those of us who have put in our time from those that have been playing a month. I also, however, don't miss someone noobing it up in a group and causing me to lose a level, or having to regrind the same xp over for 20 mins because of it. I don't like people being able to willingly train you while you're trying to kill something. I also HATED the fact that we had to SHARE raid instances....."Grats! You're at max level, and are ready to begin raiding. Now, please contact the other 5 guilds in your raiding bracket and go ahead and synch your schedules so that everyone can have exactly 2.5 hours in each raid instance per week....oh and hope that no pugs are on that can clear what you need to progress, because they won't ask.". Bleh.
There used to be good WoW players back when I was still playing. Back when BWL and AQ and Naxx40 were in the game, that is when WoW was a bit more challenging.
PvP was on PvP servers in EQ, unlike the WoW servers where no one does it.
EQ content wasn't instanced, so players always wanted to kill each other over something, even on the non-PvP servers people would want to attack other guilds.That is what distinguishes a real PVP game from a fake PVP game.
In WoW, you probably would go off and gank newbies for fun, because the game didn't provide any reason to engage in PVP.
In EQ, people fought to survive usually, to control PVE zones, or to get back at people in certain guilds. Because EQ was a PVP game, guilds would be at war with each other, and would have to kill each other on site. It wasn't like meaningless PVP where you fight someone for honor points or some other useless and artificial system such as the one in WoW.
There used to be good WoW players back when I was still playing. Back when BWL and AQ and Naxx40 were in the game, that is when WoW was a bit more challenging.
PvP was on PvP servers in EQ, unlike the WoW servers where no one does it.
EQ content wasn't instanced, so players always wanted to kill each other over something, even on the non-PvP servers people would want to attack other guilds.That is what distinguishes a real PVP game from a fake PVP game.
In WoW, you probably would go off and gank newbies for fun, because the game didn't provide any reason to engage in PVP.
In EQ, people fought to survive usually, to control PVE zones, or to get back at people in certain guilds. Because EQ was a PVP game, guilds would be at war with each other, and would have to kill each other on site. It wasn't like meaningless PVP where you fight someone for honor points or some other useless and artificial system such as the one in WoW.
What you are describing is exactly why the EQ community was so fucking toxic and people hated each other. Not because awesome game mechanics promoted great gameplay, but limited raid content forced people to hate each other in order to advance.
I am not one bit surprised that you are pinpointing one of the major flaws in EQ and heralding it as something spectacular. Get over your epeen already.
The key to a successful raid is finding people who can follow simple instructions. I don't care what game you are playing.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
There used to be good WoW players back when I was still playing. Back when BWL and AQ and Naxx40 were in the game, that is when WoW was a bit more challenging.
PvP was on PvP servers in EQ, unlike the WoW servers where no one does it.
EQ content wasn't instanced, so players always wanted to kill each other over something, even on the non-PvP servers people would want to attack other guilds.That is what distinguishes a real PVP game from a fake PVP game.
In WoW, you probably would go off and gank newbies for fun, because the game didn't provide any reason to engage in PVP.
In EQ, people fought to survive usually, to control PVE zones, or to get back at people in certain guilds. Because EQ was a PVP game, guilds would be at war with each other, and would have to kill each other on site. It wasn't like meaningless PVP where you fight someone for honor points or some other useless and artificial system such as the one in WoW.
Wow......just wow to both of you. And the point of both of you talking about the old days like it's 50 years ago is?
Games change, get over it. MMO's are evolving games. Just because you don't like the direction it's going doesn't mean that the way YOU think it should be going is the correct way.
Ginkeq, your a broken record. Ganksinatra, for a guy who seems to be hating on him just because he doesn't like the way WoW's going and then you agreeing with him is kinda retarded.
Everyone has opinions, but does that make them the universal truth??? NO!
I have to give them some props. I can't remember shit from those days. Certain things stick out but I envy their memory. Wish I could remember stuff that vividly I did in a game that long ago.
I blame it on too much partying or it could be I didn't care about it as much as they did. Probably a combination really.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I have to give them some props. I can't remember shit from those days. Certain things stick out but I envy their memory. Wish I could remember stuff that vividly I did in a game that long ago.
I blame it on too much partying or it could be I didn't care about it as much as they did. Probably a combination really.
I'm not trying to say they don't have valid points because, if anything, I agree with them. The thing is that both of them are pissing into the wind because complaining about how WoW WAS won't change the fact that this is what WoW is. It won't get better in their terms, but I'm pretty sure it'll get more main stream. i.e. easy mode
Everyone has opinions, but does that make them the universal truth??? NO!
Oh, don't get me wrong. They both have their up and down sides (old and new WoW). I hated the grind to get to bosses, and enjoy the fact thatthere is very little trash comparatively now. I have hard modes if I want a challenge. I just see the future if it keeps going the way it is though. There will be one mob in the instance, called the "iWin Button". It will have 1 hp, and it will drop every piece of loot in the instance. The hard mode will have 5 hp.
Honestly, I'd like to see UO get the 3D treatment.....without Trammel
There used to be good WoW players back when I was still playing. Back when BWL and AQ and Naxx40 were in the game, that is when WoW was a bit more challenging.
PvP was on PvP servers in EQ, unlike the WoW servers where no one does it.
EQ content wasn't instanced, so players always wanted to kill each other over something, even on the non-PvP servers people would want to attack other guilds.That is what distinguishes a real PVP game from a fake PVP game.
In WoW, you probably would go off and gank newbies for fun, because the game didn't provide any reason to engage in PVP.
In EQ, people fought to survive usually, to control PVE zones, or to get back at people in certain guilds. Because EQ was a PVP game, guilds would be at war with each other, and would have to kill each other on site. It wasn't like meaningless PVP where you fight someone for honor points or some other useless and artificial system such as the one in WoW.
What you are describing is exactly why the EQ community was so fucking toxic and people hated each other. Not because awesome game mechanics promoted great gameplay, but limited raid content forced people to hate each other in order to advance.
I am not one bit surprised that you are pinpointing one of the major flaws in EQ and heralding it as something spectacular. Get over your epeen already.
Come on, EQ was like a real world.
There are not an unlimited amount of resources in the real world. There are conflicts that arise from this fact.
Why should an MMORPG be designed so that there isn't any conflict? Resources are a natural source of conflict, so limited resources definitely has its place in a PVP oriented MMORPG.
Sure, it was not that smart on the PVE servers, but I can't see a game with a meaningful PVP system without it. Even a shitty game like WoW could remove their instances and I bet you people would enjoy their PVP servers.
There are just no fun PVP elements in games like WoW.
You don't guard zones, there are no zones worth guarding
You don't kill players in the world, there is no reason to kill them.
Guilds don't fight each other anymore, there is no reason for guilds to fight.
Need I go on?
To make people PVP they had to instance it, give people points, give people rewards. They turned PVP into a meaningless farm activity, into something that does not occur naturally anymore.
I have to give them some props. I can't remember shit from those days. Certain things stick out but I envy their memory. Wish I could remember stuff that vividly I did in a game that long ago.
I blame it on too much partying or it could be I didn't care about it as much as they did. Probably a combination really.
I'm not trying to say they don't have valid points because, if anything, I agree with them. The thing is that both of them are pissing into the wind because complaining about how WoW WAS won't change the fact that this is what WoW is. It won't get better in their terms, but I'm pretty sure it'll get more main stream. i.e. easy mode
Haha, who said I wanted WOW to change?
That game is too far gone to be fixed.
Fact is that players who want an MMORPG with a real PVP system need to stand up against these MMORPGs that provide fake and meaningless instanced PVP. WoW will always be an MMORPG for dumb players, and grandmothers and grandfathers, and old people, and bad players. I understand that. But I doubt all the games will have dumb players as their target audience.
A challenging MMORPG maybe?
This classic case of person saying i am right which is not bad thing,but then said person follows up my opinion is only that matters and your opinions don't matter.What is the point of trying to have convo.What have we learned
-He likes EQ 1
-He does not like WoW
-He will never like Wow
-This most important one He doesn't see place for a game like WoW.
I don't play WoW,It took me two weeks to realize that i will never catch up to others players and Blizzard would continue to pull the carrot every time i got close,plus trying to competitive in WoW is like get second job ,a job where you pay blizzard 14.99 a month.Wow is not the game for me,Guild wars not the game for me,Aion is not game for me.I don't like the design choices but i see the merits of that game.OP seems that world revolves around his point of view.
When the reality is many of the things he is championing ,a large majority players hate it that why it is not in WoW or EQ 2.The funniest part is many things he likes where design flaws that devs vowed they would change in the next game which is why EQ 2 does not play EQ 1.
You hate WoW design,You hate WoW, You like EQ now what. We can't convinced WoW is good game and Even the most avid WoW haters on this board would admit games like WoW has place for gamers who like that type game.You said your piece i will leave with something you can't argue with
WoW 11.5 million subs
Aion 3.5 million subs
Linage 2 1.2 million subs
Warhammer and AoC both had over 700,000 subs
EQ at its peak 500,000 subs,Today around 150,000 subs.
What do those numbers tell you,they are millions of people who don't share your view. "Millions!!!!!!".
Take both games line up both raid/dungeon encounters and put them side by side. Its almost painfully obvious how superior and more well scripted fights in WoW are. Now if you took eq II instances there about on par. Everything seems better "back in the day" but frankly thats just an illusion.
I have to give them some props. I can't remember shit from those days. Certain things stick out but I envy their memory. Wish I could remember stuff that vividly I did in a game that long ago.
I blame it on too much partying or it could be I didn't care about it as much as they did. Probably a combination really.
I'm not trying to say they don't have valid points because, if anything, I agree with them. The thing is that both of them are pissing into the wind because complaining about how WoW WAS won't change the fact that this is what WoW is. It won't get better in their terms, but I'm pretty sure it'll get more main stream. i.e. easy mode
Haha, who said I wanted WOW to change?
That game is too far gone to be fixed.
Fact is that players who want an MMORPG with a real PVP system need to stand up against these MMORPGs that provide fake and meaningless instanced PVP. WoW will always be an MMORPG for dumb players, and grandmothers and grandfathers, and old people, and bad players. I understand that. But I doubt all the games will have dumb players as their target audience.
A challenging MMORPG maybe?
No mmo is hard. No mmo is very challenging. The only real thing that separates each game is the time it takes to accomplish things. MMO's in general are dumbed down rpgs. Sorry to say but it is true.
It's very interesting, my dear OP, to read an EQ fanboy opinion on WoW instances. Oh yes, very, very interesting.
/sarcasm off
/yawn
By the way, what's happening? Is this the International Day of Fail Troll?
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Current WOW players invest more time than you would invest playing a game like Everquest. There's a sheer amount of trivial instances that players in WoW log on for. If you add the time up, it takes more time, but the content is easier.
The issue isn't that you have more of a real life, but that all of the time you spend in WoW is basically spent doing content that is not challenging at all anymore.
You just want shitty players to get the best gear, and you label us skilled players oh you label yourself a skilled player, oh LoL, someone whose only purpose here is moan and moan about gear, so much for for your skill as being losers or something, because we are competent and we think and know how to take care of raid content in these games. So they catered to dumb players, not "players with lives", get it right.
EQ days were hours of camping the same damned spot, hoping the boss spawns and then hoping he drops the rare loot. WoW provides 10s of dungeons and 10 or so raids. Hundred+ bosses at end level 83.
EQ provides only 1 instance of every boss so half of your time is waiting for a vacant slot in the camp for that boss. WoW allows multiple instances, so every team can give that boss a shot.
And you said EQ players spent less time in a game than WoW? Seriously, I have been there waiting 48 hours for a boss to spawn, just to be sure no one steals him.
Stop preaching to us about EQ. Many of us were there from EQ launch. We know what EQ was, it just wasn't what you are trying to paint.
Oh last and most important of all, stop trying to sneak in sentences like "we skilled players". Your only skill is zealous jealousy of people getting gear that you don't. Pretending you don't care for it is futile, your jealousy floods every page you write. A good player will look further than gear. A skilled player knows how to mix gear with other options to really perform. You don't.
Guess you're not aware that two former EQ players created much of WOW's content, might've heard of them Tigole & Furor. If you don't then you weren't an old school EQ player. They made WOW everything EQ wasn't, that is easier and more streamlined. Everything SOE has done to EQ, EQ2 has been attempts to copy WOW to make their games better.
All that video shows me is a waste of time running around empty ugly hallways with nothing in them... fun stuff.
Ginq is not about content, not about anything, he is lamenting the loss of his epeens. He wants to be the one in a game, the god everyone else log in to worship. Give him a set of T11 now and he will stand in dalaran and spam the channels, asking ppl to inspect him. He will come telling us how great WoW is. He won't be playing, he is not playing. He wants the game to stop progression after he got the unique gear. It is all about him, him, him and again him.
Players should be somewhat unique in an MMORPG why so you can flex your epeen? LoL grow up boy and earn some self confidence, you do not need that shinny sword to pretend you are good, you are good in yourself, not in beggin Blizz to drop you a pixel or two, especially players who are better than other players. And so you pretend you are better? LoL, from what you write, I know I will never team with you, a typical loot whore.
If a shit guild can't clear newb zones like MC, why give them the same gear as someone who has cleared MC, BWL, and AQ? Oh? You are the one to judge who should get what? Says who everyone gets the same gear? Badge gear covers every slot? and is the same quality as heroic drops? Actually Gink, stop the bullshit, just tell us how to evaluate gear. You don't know anything, you just bullshit here moaning with jealousy
It's like you guys want an MMORPG that has some kind of progression, yet any player who wants to be distinct from trash players is all about "e-peen":. You do not want to distincy yourself, you want to have the loot exclusivity on the pretend excuse that you are better. We call that loot whore.
Tell me, why even play an MMORPG if you don't want to be different. I play to enjoy with people, not to discriminate and belittle others, calling them stupid or shitty, not like you. If you want equality, even if you are a shitty player, maybe play a genre like an FPS. I mean, giving everyone equivalent gear is equivalent to everyone having no gear at all. They don't belong in the whole genre if they expect not to do any work and have the same gear as everyone else. What have you done to the gaming community that deserves loot? Just b/c you come here to moan, just because you have the balls to call random people shitty? Just b/c of your endless babycrying out of jealousy? Just b/c of your desperate attempt to build some identity of yourself via dressing up a game avatar?
Go play barbie, you can dress him/her up in unique clothings (gear) you make yourself, you can be very unique. That is your game.
First you are no better player.
Second you know nothing about gear, just endless dreams and jealousy about pixels.
Third you do not understand WoW gameplay
Fourth you do not deserve special treatment
Fifth and foremost, you have no credential to judge others. Calling random people shitty does not make you any better than who you truly are, an insecure man with no self esteem who need to constantly moan here while secretly envy and lament gear gear gear gear gear gear gear gear gear....
Current WOW players invest more time than you would invest playing a game like Everquest. There's a sheer amount of trivial instances that players in WoW log on for. If you add the time up, it takes more time, but the content is easier.
The issue isn't that you have more of a real life, but that all of the time you spend in WoW is basically spent doing content that is not challenging at all anymore.
You just want shitty players to get the best gear, and you label us skilled players oh you label yourself a skilled player, oh LoL, someone whose only purpose here is moan and moan about gear, so much for for your skill as being losers or something, because we are competent and we think and know how to take care of raid content in these games. So they catered to dumb players, not "players with lives", get it right.
EQ days were hours of camping the same damned spot, hoping the boss spawns and then hoping he drops the rare loot. WoW provides 10s of dungeons and 10 or so raids. Hundred+ bosses at end level 83.
EQ provides only 1 instance of every boss so half of your time is waiting for a vacant slot in the camp for that boss. WoW allows multiple instances, so every team can give that boss a shot.
And you said EQ players spent less time in a game than WoW? Seriously, I have been there waiting 48 hours for a boss to spawn, just to be sure no one steals him.
Stop preaching to us about EQ. Many of us were there from EQ launch. We know what EQ was, it just wasn't what you are trying to paint.
Oh last and most important of all, stop trying to sneak in sentences like "we skilled players". Your only skill is zealous jealousy of people getting gear that you don't. Pretending you don't care for it is futile, your jealousy floods every page you write. A good player will look further than gear. A skilled player knows how to mix gear with other options to really perform. You don't.
Thing is according to his stats hes 23, which would have made him what, 13 when EQ was first released and pretty much a teen for 90% of the time he played the game. Hes pretty much living in a nostalgic world atm (as do a lot of us who played EQ though many of us see and understand the changes made in the genre, even if we dont really agree with them). Its easy to forget that what was great when you were a kid with no real responsibilities wont always feel as great when you get older.
EQ pretty much boiled down to finding a camping spot and spending hours on end there killing the spawns untill the XP became slow and it was time to move on. The game didnt require all this 'skill' he speaks of. It required persevernace. You had to be willing to wait for spawns and spend a few hours killing the same mobs over and over till you made that tiny amount of XP needed.
I was a member of EQ beta from phase 2 straight through POP, and while I loved the game for what it was, I can also point out what it was without glossing over anything. The game was a huge grind when it came to leveling. Death penalty wasnt something that necessarily made people play better as it only made them take less risk (why fight these even con mobs who might kill you when you can farm these lower con mobs and use less mana thus experiencing less downtime throughout the grind and not really worry about getting killed as much). Zones like Unrest were a bit hard in the first month or two, but once people got to that level and made their way there it was pretty safe and easy, even if a train or two happened while there.
Hell, by the third month you pretty much had to make reservation to get a spot at a camp. Most of you probably remember the whole zone wide "Camp Check!" shouts in chat, where someone would do a camp check and each area that was camped would respond with something like "Derv 2 camped".
The only thing that really worked for EQ was that it was pretty much the first of its kind. People still cling to it in hopes that another game like it will come along, as I do sometimes. But the reality of it is the market is growing and games such as classic EQ are niche at best, and many companies dont see it as a wise business endevour. Maybe down the line we will see other games in the spirit of EQ (like maybe more challenge with less downtime and a bigger world that isnt 80% instanced)
But yeah, to paint EQ as a game that required 'skill' and the such is misleading, specially when there are a lot of people who have played it for a long time and know exactly what the game was about.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
AQ40 was pretty awesome. But consider the cut and paste mentality that was most of BC raids. But seriously, WoW's PvE content is mostly rehashing of old ideas. How many versions of "don't stand in the fire" do we really need? The 5 mans basically re-use mechanics from the previous raids. There was plenty of innovation in Vanilla, but it's gotten stale.
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.
Current WOW players invest more time than you would invest playing a game like Everquest. There's a sheer amount of trivial instances that players in WoW log on for. If you add the time up, it takes more time, but the content is easier.
The issue isn't that you have more of a real life, but that all of the time you spend in WoW is basically spent doing content that is not challenging at all anymore.
You just want shitty players to get the best gear, and you label us skilled players oh you label yourself a skilled player, oh LoL, someone whose only purpose here is moan and moan about gear, so much for for your skill as being losers or something, because we are competent and we think and know how to take care of raid content in these games. So they catered to dumb players, not "players with lives", get it right.
EQ days were hours of camping the same damned spot, hoping the boss spawns and then hoping he drops the rare loot. WoW provides 10s of dungeons and 10 or so raids. Hundred+ bosses at end level 83.
EQ provides only 1 instance of every boss so half of your time is waiting for a vacant slot in the camp for that boss. WoW allows multiple instances, so every team can give that boss a shot.
And you said EQ players spent less time in a game than WoW? Seriously, I have been there waiting 48 hours for a boss to spawn, just to be sure no one steals him.
Stop preaching to us about EQ. Many of us were there from EQ launch. We know what EQ was, it just wasn't what you are trying to paint.
Oh last and most important of all, stop trying to sneak in sentences like "we skilled players". Your only skill is zealous jealousy of people getting gear that you don't. Pretending you don't care for it is futile, your jealousy floods every page you write. A good player will look further than gear. A skilled player knows how to mix gear with other options to really perform. You don't.
Thing is according to his stats hes 23, which would have made him what, 13 when EQ was first released and pretty much a teen for 90% of the time he played the game. Hes pretty much living in a nostalgic world atm (as do a lot of us who played EQ though many of us see and understand the changes made in the genre, even if we dont really agree with them). Its easy to forget that what was great when you were a kid with no real responsibilities wont always feel as great when you get older.
EQ pretty much boiled down to finding a camping spot and spending hours on end there killing the spawns the XP became slow and it was time to move on. The game didnt require all this 'skill' he speaks of. It required persevernace. You had to be willing to wait for spawns and spend a few hours killing the same mobs over and over till you made that tiny amount of XP needed.
I was a member of EQ beta from phase 2 straight through POP, and while I loved the game for what it was, I can also point out what it was without glossing over anything. The game was a huge grind when it came to leveling. Death penalty wasnt something that necessarily made people play better as it only made them take less risk (why fight these even con mobs who might kill you when you can farm these lower con mobs and use less mana thus experiencing less downtime throughout the grind and not really worry about getting killed as much). Zones like Unrest were a bit hard in the first month or two, but once people got to that level and made their way there it was pretty safe and easy, even if a train or two happened while there.
Hell, by the third month you pretty much had to make reservation to get a spot at a camp. Most of you probably remember the whole zone wide "Camp Check!" shouts in chat, where someone would do a camp check and each area that was camped would respond with something like "Derv 2 camped".
The only thing that really worked for EQ was that it was pretty much the first of its kind. People still cling to it in hopes that another game like it will come along, as I do sometimes. But the reality of it is the market is growing and games such as classic EQ are niche at best, and many companies dont see it as a wise business endevour. Maybe down the line we will see other games in the spirit of EQ (like maybe more challenge with less downtime and a bigger world that isnt 80% instanced)
But yeah, to paint EQ as a game that required 'skill' and the such is misleading, specially when there are a lot of people who have played it for a long time and know exactly what the game was about.
Seriously I do not believe in anything "fact" Gink said, is he 23 or 93? God knows, and maybe his mother cares not me.
Gink is just bitter, he wants to be different, he needs to be different, he will spray bullets all over the town to make him different, except that, unfortunately there are enough random town shooters, and he cannot be different. His only way to be different is to come here and tell us that he is different? Why? No explanation, just different.
As for EQ, it has its days. Back then it is about the only game of its kind. The PvE was dark mood terror, for me as an Ogre. Walking out as a shaman level 1, into the dark wilderness does create that sense of "freshness". Ability to meet random people and talk is fun, everyone talks, as it is about the only game we can talk like that, unlike spamming in pseudo 3D UO where everyone talks to everyone. Its a different game, in almost every aspect.
When we hit level 10s the feeling of novelty fades and irritation sets it. As a shaman I have to look at my spellbook, meditating after every pull. We are fighting along a coastline for crocodiles, b/c that is the only stupid mob that does not run away when down to 20% hp, no hunter or druid, no snaring and Ogres cannot be either. At level 20s we sit outside a dungeon for hours looking for a camp, and luckily healers like shaman (no priest class from Ogres) have better chances. And so on. EQ shows its color fast as a huge grind, the day I hit level 30. Every 5 levels from level 34 onwards, is a hell level, taking twice the time to get level thru.
We still play it back then, b/c it WAS the pioneer game, and given the kind of hardware we have, we cannot expect more.
Once SWG launches, once CoH launches, and once WoW launches, EQ is no longer worth playing even if its free. It has served its role in history. Like most old models, they are replaced. We respect EQ, we once find long days and weeks of pleasure sitting there till our hips complain. Not any more, we do not need to sit in front of the monitor for 48 hours b/c a guildie priest need his epic weapon quest done. In WoW we set up a raid thru calendar feature, log on just before the raid starts and summon everybody. 10 minutes later we start playing. PLAYING.
That is the game of my choice now, a game I play to enjoy, with every tool and feature optimised to let me focus on playing. I do not look down on EQ, it was the one in its days. It is no longer 1997, it is now 2009 almost 2010.
Off hand I can think of phrasing, x-server LFG, as a couple of the latest new ideas.
The user interface of WoW is smooth, the ability to mod very dynamic and user friendly, I wish Microsoft is half as smooth there.
Every game is a rehash of another game. How many left buttons and right button pushes can you innovate.
We do not need rocket science or mozart creativity in a game, we just need fun. You fun =/= my fun at times.
Now do misread my post, I never say WoW is great. It is just a game for me to log on couple hours a day here or there. I do not carry my avatar with me when I log off, I do not resent not winning the roll on that uber helm of sleepless nights when I log off. Fact is, I seldom remember full spelling of names of zones or bosses. Its just a game, damn game.
Typical response....sub numbers. IMO I bet they don't have near those numbers now, hence why they keep adding new easy-mode features to draw players back, not develop new ones. That was at their peak they had those numbers. And sub numbers don't make a game great. it just shows that there are lots of people out there that prefer mindless instant gratification over developing a character and having a deeper appreciation for the effort put into it. Instant gratification should of been left on console games and PC FPS games IMO. That's what they were made for after all.
I'm not saying that WoW shouldn't exist per say. Console players have just as much right to play MMO's if they wish as the rest of us. Hell, I love playing console games just as much as PC games too. But I just wish that every other company would stop trying to copy WoW in hopes of cashing in on the same outrageous success. It's just not possible unless you stray away from what makes an MMORPG what is known for, or at least WAS known for, and separated the genre from FPS and console games in the first place. MMO's are suppose to be about the journey, not the destination.
P.S. Never catch veteran players? In two weeks you could be level 60+ in WoW. In the right guild, you could have decent gear to allow you to compete in less than a month's time.
Aye, it was fun for its time, but that time has come and gone.
As for WoW, the game just got redundant for me and maybe others as well. Mostly what killed WoW for me was the end game. I like raiding, but its not the only thing I want to do. And there is only so many times you can roll an alt before you see all the content the lower levels have to offer. As for instances, I would like to see a bit more done with them if a company plans on making them pretty much the meat of a game.
But all in all I am one of those people who are just bored with the game no matter what content gets released for it. I am just one of those players who need a change of scenary and the challenge of learning something new/different (something that a lot of games miss the mark on these days seeing as they aim more toward being familiar to other games, which isnt a bad thing, just not what a few of us are looking for.)
As I have said before, Maybe someday developers will start copying the principles of WoW (taking good ideas and making them their own/differemt/better) rather than COPYING the game itself.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
You're joking right? If anything SoE tried to make EQ2 more like WoW after the game launched because it didn't take off like they thought it would.
Or do you forget how EQ2 was at launch compared to now?
There has never been an EQ1 clone, ever. That is why we are all stuck with shitty WoW clones with instances and not worlds.
you win the prize for the most oblivious poster ever
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Aye, it was fun for its time, but that time has come and gone.
As for WoW, the game just got redundant for me and maybe others as well. Mostly what killed WoW for me was the end game. I like raiding, but its not the only thing I want to do. And there is only so many times you can roll an alt before you see all the content the lower levels have to offer. As for instances, I would like to see a bit more done with them if a company plans on making them pretty much the meat of a game.
But all in all I am one of those people who are just bored with the game no matter what content gets released for it. I am just one of those players who need a change of scenary and the challenge of learning something new/different (something that a lot of games miss the mark on these days seeing as they aim more toward being familiar to other games, which isnt a bad thing, just not what a few of us are looking for.)
As I have said before, Maybe someday developers will start copying the principles of WoW (taking good ideas and making them their own/differemt/better) rather than COPYING the game itself.
WoW is a game, which only accounts for a few idle hours a week when I have nothing else planned. If WoW folds up, if my ISP died, if I need to travel to work (a lot), I do not feel any loss.
I once played EQ, I left the game with thousands of plat, as I am a vivid trader of EC. I have 2 PCs at home (due to my work) and 2 accounts. One of my PC always have a trader in EC selling all the loots I get, who is also spamming "SoW, 1g per fix". You can't imagine how much fun and money there. I left at the end no remorse. Same for DAoC, same for SWG. When its time to go, just log out forever.
WoW will follow suit some day. Maybe when SW:ToR comes, maybe. No remorse, we all move on sometime. We all leave our parents, our school, our friends as we grow up, we move to new community, new states, new countries. Life goes on. WoW is nothing more than one element out of many after work activities. Games for that matter. Just Games. No reason why we have to treat it like death and life, like Gink did.
If no developer put up games worth the trouble to play, then I go play something else, other games. My sweetest memory is still Might and Magic: cloud of xeen and Might and Magic: darkside of xeen.