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How do you find good PvP?

YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

By good PvP I mean even fights and where one side is not trying to escape from the other.

Resubscribed for about a month ago and have since joined a 0.0 corp but all the PvP I have seen has been either ganking someone 10v1, getting ganked while ratting, gatecamping and so on.

Does factional warfare offer other types of PvP than this?

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Comments

  • pauldriverpauldriver Member Posts: 198

    I'd put a thread on scrapheap-challenge asking for a corp that does a lot of small roaming gangs. Tried factional warfare for a week and a bit on a corp break. What I gathered from it was a lot of elitism and paranoia (some fleets you just will not get into).

    This was on Gallente side and to be fair I haven't had an awful lot of time to play it the last couple of months so you're experience may differ. Though I believe Gallente are still doing terrible in FW and you will get a lot of good replies if you go the scrapheap-challenge route.

    Jam is sticky.

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

    What is scrap-heap challenge

  • pauldriverpauldriver Member Posts: 198

    http://scrapheap-challenge.com

    Its like the EVE forums but without all the drama and trolling community. Think the polar opposite of what CAOD is. Put a nice recruitment thread their and I am pretty sure you will find what you are looking for.

    Jam is sticky.

  • batolemaeusbatolemaeus Member CommonPosts: 2,061

    It's a forum. And a pretty bad one at that, considering that it's members consists of elitists.
    I personally had a good bunch of good fights this year. However, in all areas of eve, nobody will engage a fair fight. Fair fights are for arenas, pvp in eve is all about asymmetrical warfare. It is very uncommon for two identical fleets to engage.

    If you just want some small scale stuff, try to find 2-5+ buddies and roam with them. I personally prefer logistics/battleship gangs since it's easier to provoke a fight and win while outnumbered heavily. However, there are many ways to fly around and provoke small skirmishes with others.

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593
    Originally posted by batolemaeus


    It's a forum. And a pretty bad one at that, considering that it's members consists of elitists.

    I personally had a good bunch of good fights this year. However, in all areas of eve, nobody will engage a fair fight. Fair fights are for arenas, pvp in eve is all about asymmetrical warfare. It is very uncommon for two identical fleets to engage.
    If you just want some small scale stuff, try to find 2-5+ buddies and roam with them. I personally prefer logistics/battleship gangs since it's easier to provoke a fight and win while outnumbered heavily. However, there are many ways to fly around and provoke small skirmishes with others.

    Well one of the issues as I see it is that there does not seem to be fixed points to fight over (not that I have noticed anyway). So when outnumbered, people just warp out to a safe spot or to the safety of their POS.

    Are stations and POS not attackable?

    Because if they were then people would have no choice but to stand their ground and fight. Right now all I am seeing are roaming gangs and when one roaming gang is bigger than the other, then the other runs. Roughly equally sized gangs, fighting it out, seems to be very rare. Or maybe it is just me who am unfourtunate enough not to see any yet.

  • batolemaeusbatolemaeus Member CommonPosts: 2,061


    Originally posted by Yamota

    Are stations and POS not attackable?


    Sure they are, but they call for specialized ships that are uncommon in roaming gangs. If you want to shoot a well setup pos, you need a good bunch of remote repair bs at least.
    Attacking pos is a good way to provoke a fight. However, as i said, if there is a fair fight happening in new eden, both fcs did something wrong.

  • WrayethWrayeth Member Posts: 229

    Finding good PvP can be difficult or easy, depending on where you are and what you're flying.  There's a large element of randomness to it, but there are a few things you can do to give yourself a chance at a better fight.

    First, pick your targets or area of operations.  In an empire war, choose a corp that will fight back but that doesn't outnumber you so massively that you can't win, even with superior quality on your side.  If you're not talking war decs, find an area of lowsec or 0.0 with many active combat pilots.  Again, you'll want to be careful to match the expected opposition against your capabilities.

    Second, timezone, timezone, timezone.  You may have found the perfect target to fight or the perfect area of operations, but if all the good combat goes down during hours when you're offline, what's the point?

    Third, pick your ship classes appropriately.  You'll want to bring ships the enemy believes they might be able to defeat, no matter if that's actually true or not.  If you bring a remote rep battleship gang of five people and the enemy has eight battlecruisers and no EW, they're likely to avoid the fight (if they're smart, anyway).

    Fourth, engage in deception.  The enemy will generally attack when they believe you are weaker than they are.   This is a tendency you should encourage by appearing less deadly than you actually are.  Use baiting tactics; bring cloaked recons, stealth bombers, and black ops as force multipliers; have capital ships on standby in another system.  All of the previous tactics help encourage the enemy to engage you by reducing your apparent threat level.

    Let me give you a small example of how this works.

    A couple of weeks ago, my corpmates and I were roaming around lowsec trying to find people who would fight us...or who had sufficiently juicy ships for us to waste sec status ganking (faction loot is good, mmkay?).  Our gang consisted of my alt in a megathron, my main in a widow (cloaking black ops battleship with jamming capabilities), a corpmate in a vexor navy issue, an ally corpmate in a hurricane, another of my corpmates in a falcon (cloaking recon cruiser with jamming capabilities), two corpies in an AF and an interceptor, respectively, and one blackbird (the latter had to log off partway through the op).

    We were checking out the Kubinen-Enderailen-Tunudan pocket and not having much luck, initially.  We knew that Veto (a well-known pirate corp) had some members living in Tunudan, but there were only a few of them there.  With only three showing up in local, no ships on scan during our first check, and none of them passing in and out of the system, we figured they were AFK and didn't bother with them initially.

    After being sufficiently bored due to lack of fights, we decided to check Tunudan again.  Our falcon went in to scout the system, and there were two of them outside the station in a hurricane and myrmidon, respectively.  That being the case, we sent my alt's mega in as bait to see if they would engage.  The gang waited on the other side of the gate while my alt jumped in and warped to the station, promptly engaging the myrm.  Surprisingly, the myrm fought back, likely figuring that it would take a while for my alt's megathron to kill him and that he would be able to deaggress and dock.  The hurricane, on the other hand, locked me up but never fired.

    As I told the rest of the gang to jump in and warp to my alt, a third BC undocked and locked me, but promptly re-docked along with the hurricane as local spiked with my gang's jump-ins.  At this point, to no one's surprise, the myrm de-aggressed.  Shortly afterwards, though, the rest of the gang landed on station and helped finish off the mrym before his timer could expire.  It is important to note that I jumped my main's widow into system but cloaked up at the gate, never engaging the enemy with it or bringing it into their scan range.  This would become important later.

    http://eve-frick.net/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13541

    In any case, with the myrm dead we went back to Enderailen and Kubinen and sat on the gate between the two while our probers tried to localize some juicy mission runners (can't recall what they were flying, now; we didn't get any of them).  Our gang was on the Kubinen side of the Kub-Ender gate and had been there for a few minutes.  I sent my alt through to the other side in his mega to scout/bait, and sure enough four Veto in an armageddon battleship, hurricane, harbinger, and one other BC which I can't recall jumped into system.  They warped to the Kubinen gate and promptly locked up my alt.

    Seeing their willingness to engage and knowing that my gang was properly set up on the other side, I jumped the alt through. (Note that we were now a man down as our blackbird had logged.)  Sure enough, they followed.  When my alt decloaked and started reapprochaing gate, all of them aggressed, trying to take out what they thought was the largest threat.  At this point, the rest of my gang primaried the 'geddon and I sent my alt MWDing at him from about 22km, getting into range and opening up.  Our falcon uncloaked and jammed some of the BCs, but my alt was still taking heavy fire.

    Now that I was sure they were fully aggressed, I uncloaked the widow and jammed the 'geddon and the last BC, firing on the 'geddon with torps while MWDing to my alt and activating a remote armor rep.   At this point, with all of the targets jammed the outcome was a foregone conclusion, and we killed the armageddon quite handily (though my alt was down to about 60% armor on his plated mega--the Veto folks had some serious DPS).  Unfortunately, all of the BCs got away when my gangmates failed to spread their points and webs, but it was still a fun fight.

    http://eve-frick.net/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13542

    In any case, the relevance of all of this is that we got the myrmidon kill by making it appear as if we only had the megathron and an unknown, cloaked scout in system when we engaged (aka baiting) and the armageddon kill by holding back some of our forces (my widow) in the initial engagement with the myrm (they wouldn't have later engaged with that gang composition if they had known about it).

    -Wrayeth
    image
    "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"

  • VarnyVarny Member Posts: 765

    They should just put Battlegrounds in the game like say you're in Jita and theres a POI in space which is a Battleground free for all but you can only bring frigates and you can't destroy pods.



    Then I'd love to PVP because it is fair and I don't have to keep spending loads on implants. I hate the world PVP because you never come across a fair fight and that is boring.

  • EttirxaEttirxa Member Posts: 93

    what you just described sounds far more boring to me.

  • batolemaeusbatolemaeus Member CommonPosts: 2,061


    Originally posted by Ettirxa
    what you just described sounds far more boring to me.

    /signed

    symmetrical warfare is probably the most boring activity games can offer. You already know everything. Eve, however, is all about information warfare.

  • VarnyVarny Member Posts: 765
    Originally posted by batolemaeus


     

    Originally posted by Ettirxa

    what you just described sounds far more boring to me.

     

    /signed

    symmetrical warfare is probably the most boring activity games can offer. You already know everything. Eve, however, is all about information warfare.

     

    I just like fair fights where individual micro and skill comes into play like the Alliance Tournament PVP is amazing. Just sad that theres no system in game which has that type of PVP. I hate all the jumping around and whoever wins is the person with the most ships crap. When roaming about looking for some fun 1 v 1 all I ever run into is a group of 6 which you just know is one guy and his ALTS.

    I mean no one would force you to fight in battlegrounds, you can still do PVP you like. It would just be an option for people who don't PVP in the game right now and that is me because I don't find it fun. I want to PVP but I want fair rules where it totally just comes down to skill. Right now all I seem to do in the game is the market and that is all I've done since I had the account since 2003. I try to get into PVP each time I come back but you can't beat groups as a soloer and I don't want to join a corp as every corp I joined in the past have sucked and take forever to do something.

  • jrs77jrs77 Member Posts: 419
    Originally posted by Varny

    Originally posted by batolemaeus


     

    Originally posted by Ettirxa

    what you just described sounds far more boring to me.

     

    /signed

    symmetrical warfare is probably the most boring activity games can offer. You already know everything. Eve, however, is all about information warfare.

     

    I just like fair fights where individual micro and skill comes into play like the Alliance Tournament PVP is amazing. Just sad that theres no system in game which has that type of PVP. I hate all the jumping around and whoever wins is the person with the most ships crap. When roaming about looking for some fun 1 v 1 all I ever run into is a group of 6 which you just know is one guy and his ALTS.

    I mean no one would force you to fight in battlegrounds, you can still do PVP you like. It would just be an option for people who don't PVP in the game right now and that is me because I don't find it fun. I want to PVP but I want fair rules where it totally just comes down to skill. Right now all I seem to do in the game is the market and that is all I've done since I had the account since 2003. I try to get into PVP each time I come back but you can't beat groups as a soloer and I don't want to join a corp as every corp I joined in the past have sucked and take forever to do something.

     

    You missed the point of EvE Online then. EvE isn't designed to be a fair game.

    You should logon to the test-server (SiSi), where you can arrange fights the way you like. I know plenty of people who play EvE Online 95% of their time on SiSi.

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388

    The thing is, EvE to a certain extent is a world-simulator, in that there are stakes, consequences and risk involved with PvP. Territory to be gained or lost. That being the case people tent to fight when its most advantageous to themselves and avoid fights when the odds aren't with them. Though that may not sound exciting to some, the point isn't to provide deathatch-console style pvp.

    At least thats how I see it.

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593
    Originally posted by Varny


    They should just put Battlegrounds in the game like say you're in Jita and theres a POI in space which is a Battleground free for all but you can only bring frigates and you can't destroy pods.



    Then I'd love to PVP because it is fair and I don't have to keep spending loads on implants. I hate the world PVP because you never come across a fair fight and that is boring.

     

    Yeah I agree fair fights is always more fun than ganking (regardless if you are ganking or being ganked). All respect to the guy who went through all the effort in baiting other people to attack him by appearing weaker, but I dont feel one should need such an effort just to get people to fight you in a fair fight.

    Battlegrounds would go a long way of introducing a different way of PvP in Eve. However I doubt they will ever implement it because the outcry from the existing player base would be huge since Eve is supposed to be "hardcore". A shame though since this game could have many more types of PvP than it currently does.

    But with STO coming up the two games could cater to different nisches. STO will, most likely, cater to casual PvP/PvErs while Eve continues to cater to hardcore PvPers and empire builders. I plan to play both (if STO does not turn into a piece of garbage).

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593
    Originally posted by dhayes68


    The thing is, EvE to a certain extent is a world-simulator, in that there are stakes, consequences and risk involved with PvP. Territory to be gained or lost. That being the case people tent to fight when its most advantageous to themselves and avoid fights when the odds aren't with them. Though that may not sound exciting to some, the point isn't to provide deathatch-console style pvp.
    At least thats how I see it.

     

    Even RL battles have simulators and trainers where you practice for the real thing. Battlegrounds could be the equivalent of that in Eve.

  • ChlodwigChlodwig Member Posts: 150

    I can't see a sensible symmetrical war in EvE being possible. Basically, avoiding it is part of the game.

    I said it before, I say it again, 99% of the time a battle is already decided before the first shot is fired. One of the reasons why I stopped engaging in PvP altogether and instead concentrate on making sure our side comes out on top.

    Bottom line, symmetrical war is inefficient, wasteful, dangerous and most of all uncertain. You fleet a lot of money and chances are good that a sizable portion thereof gets wasted. It's not something you'd want to have as an alliance logistics director. It would open you to a whole lot of unpleasantries. Mostly that someone else might get wind of it and decide it's the perfect time to strike now that 50% of your capships have been toasted.

    So basically you painstakingly make sure that whenever you have to engage in force, you outnumber the opponent sizably. If you don't, you're in for a problem.

    No, that's not flashy and it's not something that will result in a great video for YouTube. But it nets you the victory in the battle. And, personally, that's why I play. If you play for videos, try to find another corp that shares your interest and butt your heads together. If you'd be so kind, gimme a heads-up that you'll do, we'll come in afterwards and mop up the remnants and cash in the systems.

    Thanks in advance.

  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297
    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by dhayes68


    The thing is, EvE to a certain extent is a world-simulator, in that there are stakes, consequences and risk involved with PvP. Territory to be gained or lost. That being the case people tent to fight when its most advantageous to themselves and avoid fights when the odds aren't with them. Though that may not sound exciting to some, the point isn't to provide deathatch-console style pvp.
    At least thats how I see it.

     

    Even RL battles have simulators and trainers where you practice for the real thing. Battlegrounds could be the equivalent of that in Eve.

     

    Try Red vs Blue. They do enforce 1v1s and pre-arranged ship types. They're about the closest you'll get to "arena" combat in EvE.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • tvalentinetvalentine Member Posts: 4,216
    Originally posted by Varny

    Originally posted by batolemaeus


     

    Originally posted by Ettirxa

    what you just described sounds far more boring to me.

     

    /signed

    symmetrical warfare is probably the most boring activity games can offer. You already know everything. Eve, however, is all about information warfare.

     

    I just like fair fights where individual micro and skill comes into play

    the odds dont need to be fair for skill to come into play. I've taken on small gangs and come out on top solo. You just need to quit thinking your going to lose going into the fight.

    image

    Playing: EVE Online
    Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
    Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
    KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -

  • OrphesOrphes Member UncommonPosts: 3,039

    The PvP aspect in EVE is abit more then merely a few ship put against eachother.

    I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
    "You have the right not to be killed"

  • sonoggisonoggi Member Posts: 1,119
    Originally posted by Yamota


    By good PvP I mean even fights and where one side is not trying to escape from the other.
    Resubscribed for about a month ago and have since joined a 0.0 corp but all the PvP I have seen has been either ganking someone 10v1, getting ganked while ratting, gatecamping and so on.
    Does factional warfare offer other types of PvP than this?

     

    good pvp has never really existed in EVE. mind you a while back, one could find some decent small gang warfare, but it doesnt really exist any longer. i quit this game a few months back...after playing since beta. did everything there is to do in the game, and decided i didnt feel like wasting my precious time trying to find pvp any longer. this is the downside of the sandbox: pvp may be fun... if you find it... if you dont get blobbed...but it's unregulated.

    when i play MMO's, i weigh out the benefits and costs. i found that in EVE, roughly 80% of my time was spent on looking for pvp, and the other 20% actually engaging in pvp. of this 20%, i would have fun in a reasonably fair small gang fight about half the time. so having minimal fun for 90% of game time = 1 lost sub.

  • sonoggisonoggi Member Posts: 1,119
    Originally posted by batolemaeus


     

    Originally posted by Ettirxa

    what you just described sounds far more boring to me.

     

    /signed

    symmetrical warfare is probably the most boring activity games can offer. You already know everything. Eve, however, is all about information warfare.

     

    fanboy bullshit. i dont care what you say, i've been playing longer than you and in some of the top pvp corps and alliances. many of my buds quit, as did i after i realized this tough love "unfair" universe is a guise for a very boring timesink.

  • ChlodwigChlodwig Member Posts: 150
    Originally posted by sonoggi

    Originally posted by batolemaeus


     

    Originally posted by Ettirxa

    what you just described sounds far more boring to me.

     

    /signed

    symmetrical warfare is probably the most boring activity games can offer. You already know everything. Eve, however, is all about information warfare.

     

    fanboy bullshit. i dont care what you say, i've been playing longer than you and in some of the top pvp corps and alliances. many of my buds quit, as did i after i realized this tough love "unfair" universe is a guise for a very boring timesink.

     

    Talk for yourself. I find it highly entertaining to make people fight for me.

  • tvalentinetvalentine Member Posts: 4,216
    Originally posted by sonoggi

    Originally posted by Yamota


    By good PvP I mean even fights and where one side is not trying to escape from the other.
    Resubscribed for about a month ago and have since joined a 0.0 corp but all the PvP I have seen has been either ganking someone 10v1, getting ganked while ratting, gatecamping and so on.
    Does factional warfare offer other types of PvP than this?

     

    good pvp has never really existed in EVE. mind you a while back, one could find some decent small gang warfare, but it doesnt really exist any longer. i quit this game a few months back...after playing since beta. did everything there is to do in the game, and decided i didnt feel like wasting my precious time trying to find pvp any longer. this is the downside of the sandbox: pvp may be fun... if you find it... if you dont get blobbed...but it's unregulated.

    when i play MMO's, i weigh out the benefits and costs. i found that in EVE, roughly 80% of my time was spent on looking for pvp, and the other 20% actually engaging in pvp. of this 20%, i would have fun in a reasonably fair small gang fight about half the time. so having minimal fun for 90% of game time = 1 lost sub.

     

    You're doing it wrong.

    image

    Playing: EVE Online
    Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
    Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
    KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -

  • batolemaeusbatolemaeus Member CommonPosts: 2,061


    Originally posted by sonoggi
    i've been playing longer than you

    Heh, as if that gave you any credibility. Ad hominem attacks and bullshittery not a good argument make.

    Considering that you mention "top pvp corps and alliances", by bet is that you tried too hard and failed. Too bad..

  • PatchDayPatchDay Member Posts: 1,641
    Originally posted by sonoggi

    Originally posted by Yamota


    By good PvP I mean even fights and where one side is not trying to escape from the other.
    Resubscribed for about a month ago and have since joined a 0.0 corp but all the PvP I have seen has been either ganking someone 10v1, getting ganked while ratting, gatecamping and so on.
    Does factional warfare offer other types of PvP than this?

     

    good pvp has never really existed in EVE. mind you a while back, one could find some decent small gang warfare, but it doesnt really exist any longer. i quit this game a few months back...after playing since beta. did everything there is to do in the game, and decided i didnt feel like wasting my precious time trying to find pvp any longer. this is the downside of the sandbox: pvp may be fun... if you find it... if you dont get blobbed...but it's unregulated.

    when i play MMO's, i weigh out the benefits and costs. i found that in EVE, roughly 80% of my time was spent on looking for pvp, and the other 20% actually engaging in pvp. of this 20%, i would have fun in a reasonably fair small gang fight about half the time. so having minimal fun for 90% of game time = 1 lost sub.

     

    Darn your corp must've sucked dude. Don't feel bad I used to be in a bad one too. But then I moved to a different Alliance that was in the middle of taking over some new space. We had great fights daily. I'm not exaggerating either

     

    This is the key to EVE. If you want good pvp you have to invest time into finding the right corp/alliance that doesnt mind making a crapload of enemies and is aggressive enough to constantly seek out new fights and space to takeover

     

     

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