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The 'Group Play vs Solo Play in an MMO' Thread

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  • holifeetholifeet Member Posts: 532

    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    Saying it's because of the over-abundance of solo content is an over-simplification if not an outright fabricatoin.  EQ was primarily a grouping game, not forced but definately favoured and long wait times for groups, often stretching into hours was the number one complaint  of that game.

    Venge Sunsoar

    Yet I recall a time when i could run to OT, Oasis or High Hold, for example, and find a group a minute or two after I shouted I was looking.

    In modern MMOs there is so much solo questing to be done that many people, in searching for a fast route to the end game, will use it over grouping. This is especially so when the game is aged and many people have high level characters. Up until then games like LotRO may have seen people utilising the group content because there was enough people around. The glare of the solo path soon wins out though.

    In EQ2, Kunark's group content is almost completely ignored. People skirt around Karnors and Chardok and go in for the group content or in guild parties. From where I was sitting Karnors had a reputation of being not worth the effort. Soloing was just so much easier.

    I was told that in Conan you could level to 20 in double quick time solo. Why a need to group? Wasn't it even a solo experience?

    Rift isn't even bothering with the group path from what I can see.

    So yes, soloing is more than a distraction from grouping. You could definitely say Scott Hartsman likes it. He was in charge of EQ2 for Kunark and now Rift.

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  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601

    Yes there were times when getting a group was quick.  OT, FM, lavastorm... but more common was waiting and waiting and waiting.  Today evein in WoW if I want a group I have in normally wihtin  a few minutes, max I've waiting even on dps is about 10 minutes.  On my tank or healer, I wait about 3 seconds.

    Sorry I'd rather take a 3 second to 10 minute wait for the hours long wait of old, even if there was the occasional quick one.

    The fact is that people that want to group are grouping, I do it all the time.  It isn't difficult to get a group, or difficult to find good grouping content, sometimes your the one that has to initiate the group though.  It is far far easier to get a group in today's games than it ever was in the old games.

     

    Venge Sunsoar

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • SwampRobSwampRob Member UncommonPosts: 1,003

    Originally posted by holifeet

     

    In modern MMOs there is so much solo questing to be done that many people, in searching for a fast route to the end game, will use it over grouping.

    .....

    So yes, soloing is more than a distraction from grouping. You could definitely say Scott Hartsman likes it. He was in charge of EQ2 for Kunark and now Rift.

    Just a point I want to bring up here.   For many, the fast route to the end game is not what they want.  They simply prefer soloing.   They don't choose it because it's the easier method, they choose it because it's more fun (to them).     The problem is that soloing vs grouping should not be seen as an us-or-them argument.     Since it's clear that there's lots of players on both sides of the equation, why not make both methods viable?   From start to end and right thru the endgame.

    Or, create MMOs that heavily favor one or the other.   The problem is when you do something like Wow, where the bait and switch is in come endgame.    And then new players to MMO see that and think that that is the way it should be, and every other way is wrong.     For all this talk of solo-friendly MMOs,  I am still waiting for one decent MMO to come out with a progressive, soloable endgame, just like every other MMO has a progressive group endgame.

  • z80paranoiaz80paranoia Member Posts: 410


    Originally posted by Cephus404

    For me, if they could make a single-player game that has the same characteristics as an MMO, a persistent, ever-changing, ever-growing world that takes me not just days or weeks, but years to explore, I'd probably stop playing MMOs.  However, that hasn't happened. 

    this

    Guild Wars 2 is my religion

  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect Member UncommonPosts: 1,243

    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    The fact is that people that want to group are grouping, I do it all the time.  It isn't difficult to get a group, or difficult to find good grouping content, sometimes your the one that has to initiate the group though.  It is far far easier to get a group in today's games than it ever was in the old games.

    That is such a false statement I can't believe it was even said. I've been through plenty of the modern MMO's and grouping just doesn't happen because

    a) everyone is soloing and

    b) the quest chains split up the playerbase making it harder to find the right people.

    Let's take LOTRO for example. I was playing a Minstrel and was on LFG, for those who don't know a Minstrel is LOTRO's equivalent to a Cleric, and I spent the entire day soloing and never once saw a group invite. And that happened day after day until I got closer to max level where things got more difficult to solo. Elites, etc.

    The same problem with every other modern design MMO I've been in. Even DDO suffers the same. There are a lot of groups going on and sometimes I can get a group in a few minutes, but like yesterday and the day before it, I eventually gave up and created an alt.

    Back in EverQuest, even as a Monk, I'd have a group within 15 minutes of logging on, and unlike modern MMO's where the groups fall apart after the first quest, I'd be in that group for the rest of the day and have a blast. So sure, it took a little longer to get groups in EQ, but when you got one you didn't need to look again.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675

    Originally posted by UsualSuspect

    Let's take LOTRO for example. I was playing a Minstrel and was on LFG, for those who don't know a Minstrel is LOTRO's equivalent to a Cleric, and I spent the entire day soloing and never once saw a group invite. And that happened day after day until I got closer to max level where things got more difficult to solo. Elites, etc.

    Here's an idea, why don't you go out and MAKE YOUR OWN GROUP?!?!?!  I always see people say "I sat around hoping someone would pick me and nobody ever did!"  Back when I cared about grouping, I was always the instigator, I was always the one who would look at the LFG list and pick people and make a group.  I never had to wait for a group to form, just for everyone to actually  get there to do anything.

    Stop waiting and DO SOMETHING YOURSELF!

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  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601

    There is nothing false about it.  As I said I group all the time, much more than 50% of my time even in WoW is spent grouping.  And the people I talk to are grouping.  Yes there are a lot of people just soloing, but the fact remains that the people that want to group are grouping.  Whenever I want to group I can group, it is that simple.  CoH is even easier, groups get organized in minutes.

    I've never played Lotro but if you say you spent the whole day on LFG without receiving an invite than maybe you should have organized the group.

    And anyone who says they never waited more than 15 minutes for a group in EQ is extremely exaggerating.  Hour + long waits were more than common.

    As I said before  I group all the time, it's pretty damn easy to start a group in today's games.  It isn't difficult to get a group, or difficult to find good grouping content, sometimes your the one that has to initiate the group though.  It is far far easier to get a group in today's games than it ever was in the old games. 

    In today's games where you can choose your level of difficulty by doing harder quests/mobs/dungeons (just like in old games), where groups get better xp by doing said mobs, better loot rewards, and the ease of getting a group together is much simpler than days of old.  Anyone that can't get a group, well this says more about that person than anything. 

    Grouping is dead simple to do.

    Venge Sunsoar

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • SpliceMainSpliceMain Member Posts: 14

    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Originally posted by UsualSuspect

    Let's take LOTRO for example. I was playing a Minstrel and was on LFG, for those who don't know a Minstrel is LOTRO's equivalent to a Cleric, and I spent the entire day soloing and never once saw a group invite. And that happened day after day until I got closer to max level where things got more difficult to solo. Elites, etc.

    Here's an idea, why don't you go out and MAKE YOUR OWN GROUP?!?!?!  I always see people say "I sat around hoping someone would pick me and nobody ever did!"  Back when I cared about grouping, I was always the instigator, I was always the one who would look at the LFG list and pick people and make a group.  I never had to wait for a group to form, just for everyone to actually  get there to do anything.

    Stop waiting and DO SOMETHING YOURSELF!

     

    I think the issue here is what groupers want from the party once they're in one.  Most people see the party as a means to an end.  For people like Usual Suspect the party IS the end.  Quickly and easily moving from one party to another across servers (as WoW now does) is not the game US wants to play, apparently.  He wants to make friends for life, or at least friends for an afternoon.  A large guild could provide this in most games I would think. 

    For some players, groups are enabling.  For others, myself included, parties are encumbering. 

     

    Do many folks in this discussion ever log into an MMO to just hang out?  I never, ever do.  I am never looking for any sort of social connection beyond anything game related.  Is befriending strangers a big part of the grouping dynamic?        

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,925

    Originally posted by SpliceMain

     

    Do many folks in this discussion ever log into an MMO to just hang out?  I never, ever do.  I am never looking for any sort of social connection beyond anything game related.  Is befriending strangers a big part of the grouping dynamic?        

    I think some people do. I don't. I have met some great people in these games but in no way do I normally look for my social life "online".

    I do think there are people who really enjoy the "friends for a day" and perhaps longer. Meeting new people and must experiencing a world together. And I think it's a bit of a disservice that so many of today's games work counteractive to that.

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  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675

    Originally posted by SpliceMain

    Originally posted by Cephus404


    Originally posted by UsualSuspect



    Let's take LOTRO for example. I was playing a Minstrel and was on LFG, for those who don't know a Minstrel is LOTRO's equivalent to a Cleric, and I spent the entire day soloing and never once saw a group invite. And that happened day after day until I got closer to max level where things got more difficult to solo. Elites, etc.

    Here's an idea, why don't you go out and MAKE YOUR OWN GROUP?!?!?!  I always see people say "I sat around hoping someone would pick me and nobody ever did!"  Back when I cared about grouping, I was always the instigator, I was always the one who would look at the LFG list and pick people and make a group.  I never had to wait for a group to form, just for everyone to actually  get there to do anything.

    Stop waiting and DO SOMETHING YOURSELF!

     

    I think the issue here is what groupers want from the party once they're in one.  Most people see the party as a means to an end.  For people like Usual Suspect the party IS the end.  Quickly and easily moving from one party to another across servers (as WoW now does) is not the game US wants to play, apparently.  He wants to make friends for life, or at least friends for an afternoon.  A large guild could provide this in most games I would think. 

    For some players, groups are enabling.  For others, myself included, parties are encumbering. 

     

    Do many folks in this discussion ever log into an MMO to just hang out?  I never, ever do.  I am never looking for any sort of social connection beyond anything game related.  Is befriending strangers a big part of the grouping dynamic?        

    I used to, from time to time.  I'd log in, see if there was anything I wanted to do and if there were friends I wanted to talk to, I'd sit in a public area and craft for people for free while chatting with my friends.  But yes, I'm not really trying to use an MMO as a glorified chat-room, I'm there to play a game and have a good time, I don't pretend that an MMO is a place to socialize, any more than playing Halo or CoD is a place to socialize.  You might do it occasionally but that's a rarity.  I'm there to play.

    I always find it funny that groupers whine that it's so hard to find groups, but when WoW introduced their cross-server grouping system, they whine even louder about that.  I think you hit the nail straight on the head.

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  • SwampRobSwampRob Member UncommonPosts: 1,003

    Originally posted by SpliceMain

     

    I think the issue here is what groupers want from the party once they're in one.  Most people see the party as a means to an end.  For people like Usual Suspect the party IS the end.  Quickly and easily moving from one party to another across servers (as WoW now does) is not the game US wants to play, apparently.  He wants to make friends for life, or at least friends for an afternoon.  A large guild could provide this in most games I would think. 

    For some players, groups are enabling.  For others, myself included, parties are encumbering. 

     

    Do many folks in this discussion ever log into an MMO to just hang out?  I never, ever do.  I am never looking for any sort of social connection beyond anything game related.  Is befriending strangers a big part of the grouping dynamic?        

     

    I think some good points are raised here.    For some, like myself, groups are a burden.   I LOATHE when a quest giver says "you need x friends...."  ugh.      Where, clearly for others, that's exactly what they want to see.   The more they are required to group, the more people will be out there looking for groups, the easier it will be to get one, etc.     

    Obviously, each of us wants to see more of what we like.    Neither is correct or better than the other.

    And while I never log into an MMO just to hang out, I will say that over the years I have "met' some players online and gamed with them often enough that I felt I got to know them a little bit.    I can't say I ever logged on simply for the purpose of chatting but I would from time to time seek out those I knew to help me get the group quests done.

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,908

    Havent read the 95(!!) pages of this thread, but just wanna say two words...

    'scaling encounters'

    This old solo vs group vs raid thing belongs in MMOs from 10 years ago, time to move on.

  • MurashuMurashu Member UncommonPosts: 1,386

    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I've never played Lotro but if you say you spent the whole day on LFG without receiving an invite than maybe you should have organized the group.

    And anyone who says they never waited more than 15 minutes for a group in EQ is extremely exaggerating.  Hour + long waits were more than common.

    The same rules that apply today, applied back in 1999 when EQ launched. If you take the initiative, you will get a group faster than someone who just turns on LFG and waits for someone else to invite them. I used to see guildmates complaining all the time about how long they spent waiting for a group invite. When I asked them if they had tried forming their own group it was always the same answer. I'm not good at organizing things or someone else is better at it than me....no you're just f'n lazy. (not you VS).

     

    I hardly ever had to wait more than a couple of minutes to get a group going in EQ simply because I asked in guild chat, then moved to /who LFG and started sending tells. If you turn on LFG and sit back waiting for an invite, it doesn't matter if it's 2001 or 2011, you are going to be waiting a long long time.

     

    I haven't played LotRO in a while so I don't know how the grouping scene is there, but some games can be down right anti-grouping at certain levels. Back before the LFD days in WoW you had to wait much longer to get a group for the lower level dungeons. Same thing for AoC, hardly anyone groups up for dungeons in that game until they are nearly max level. The solo exp gains and quest rewards are far superior to anything you can get in a low to mid level dungeon for for a fraction of the time and effort.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Havent read the 95(!!) pages of this thread, but just wanna say two words...

    'scaling encounters'

    This old solo vs group vs raid thing belongs in MMOs from 10 years ago, time to move on.

    Except for the fact that the groupers don't want scaling content, they want every encounter to be so hard that nobody can possibly take it on solo.  That way, everyone is forced to group whether they want to or not.

    All of these solutions have been suggested, the groupers just don't want them.  They want their way or no way at all.

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  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect Member UncommonPosts: 1,243

    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Havent read the 95(!!) pages of this thread, but just wanna say two words...

    'scaling encounters'

    This old solo vs group vs raid thing belongs in MMOs from 10 years ago, time to move on.

    Except for the fact that the groupers don't want scaling content, they want every encounter to be so hard that nobody can possibly take it on solo.  That way, everyone is forced to group whether they want to or not.

    All of these solutions have been suggested, the groupers just don't want them.  They want their way or no way at all.

    Isn't that the same for soloers though? They want to be able to solo everything from start game to end game, raid bosses and all. You speak like groupers are asking too much or are making unfair demands. No, we just want a game that's different to what's currently available. The soloers aren't complaining because they have everything their own way except for end game, which I see is slowly starting to change if you look at upcoming releases like Guild Wars 2, so soon will have it all.

    At the moment soloers are forcing everyone to solo whether they want to or not. They want every encounter to be so easy that everyone can take it on solo.

  • pierthpierth Member UncommonPosts: 1,494

    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Havent read the 95(!!) pages of this thread, but just wanna say two words...

    'scaling encounters'

    This old solo vs group vs raid thing belongs in MMOs from 10 years ago, time to move on.

    Except for the fact that the groupers don't want scaling content, they want every encounter to be so hard that nobody can possibly take it on solo.  That way, everyone is forced to group whether they want to or not.

    All of these solutions have been suggested, the groupers just don't want them.  They want their way or no way at all.

    While I'm not sure scaling encounters in and of themselves will be the cure-all, I do agree that the hard solo versus grouping mindset has to go. Finally games like GW2 are taking steps in the right direction with "soft grouping" so that instead of pitting player vs player in an attempt to complete quest objectives, etc they can work together without unwieldy grouping mechanics.

     

    I can't speak for all of the groupers, but personally I'd just like a better social experience out of MMOs (that was accomplished through grouping in the past, but times have changed), and I think this is taking it in a better direction.

    edit: spelling

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675

    Originally posted by UsualSuspect

    Isn't that the same for soloers though? They want to be able to solo everything from start game to end game, raid bosses and all. You speak like groupers are asking too much or are making unfair demands. No, we just want a game that's different to what's currently available. The soloers aren't complaining because they have everything their own way except for end game, which I see is slowly starting to change if you look at upcoming releases like Guild Wars 2, so soon will have it all.

    At the moment soloers are forcing everyone to solo whether they want to or not. They want every encounter to be so easy that everyone can take it on solo.

    Soloers want freedom.  They don't want to be forced to do something they don't want to do.  If you want to group, go ahead.  Nobody is stopping you.  Stop trying to force people who would rather solo to do what you want to do.   The problem is, most people don't want to group.  Therefore, the groupers are throwing a tantrum because they have a hard time finding enough people who want to group for the sake of grouping.  Sorry, that's just the reality of the MMO world.

    Now if the GW2 method works, great.  I'm all for it.  However, I suspect that you'll still have the groupers whining that GW2's method isn't good enough, that everyone isn't forced to group the way they want groups to work, all the time, that it's not just like the "good old days".

    I'm really sick of listening to the whining.

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  • ericbelserericbelser Member Posts: 783

    Wow people are still flogging this dead horse? Give it up, the rapid solo'ers are never going to get it.

    I prefer soloing myself most of the time, but I have zero problem with the idea that in some games that means there is content that I will not get to do and that is the essence of the issue. The unreasonable ones want to be able to solo through everything in the game; go everywhere, get everything and do everything. There are games that will let you do that; I don't even have a problem with a game calling itself an MMO and having little more than social functions but which lets players solo everything...but that shouldn't be *every* game.

    The argument of the fanatic soloers seems to be that "because there are more of them" they have the right to play any game at all and whine, forum rage and whimper until the devs cave in and make it the soloers paradise they want. Of course they are free to do whatever they like, but I disagree with them completely and I'm sickened by how much the industry has caved in to them over the years. Catering to soloists is a LOT of why games have gotten shallower, simpler and easier.

  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,839

    Originally posted by Cephus404

    [...] The problem is, most people don't want to group. [...]

    Uh, no.

    People playing a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game usually like the idea of interacting with other people.

    I frankly never met anyone who said "no thanks, I dont like grouping" in a MMO.

    Yeah I met people who dont like to do RANDOM groups. But grouping with people of whom you know they are competent is fine to really everyone.

  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect Member UncommonPosts: 1,243

    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Soloers want freedom.  They don't want to be forced to do something they don't want to do.  If you want to group, go ahead.  Nobody is stopping you.  Stop trying to force people who would rather solo to do what you want to do.   The problem is, most people don't want to group.  Therefore, the groupers are throwing a tantrum because they have a hard time finding enough people who want to group for the sake of grouping.  Sorry, that's just the reality of the MMO world.

    Now if the GW2 method works, great.  I'm all for it.  However, I suspect that you'll still have the groupers whining that GW2's method isn't good enough, that everyone isn't forced to group the way they want groups to work, all the time, that it's not just like the "good old days".

    I'm really sick of listening to the whining.

    Soloers don't want to be forced to do something they don't want to do? Then here's an idea: buy a different MMO. There are dozens of solo-friendly games around now, when an MMO finally comes out that caters to grouping don't go on a whine-fest about how you can't play the game the way you want to. Go play a different one. That's what I do, I don't play an MMO at current because I don't want to solo play my way through them, that to me isn't the essence of an MMO.

    And saying that you can group in these solo friendly MMO's is like saying you can gather a team of people to change a lightbulb. Why would you want to when you can do it yourself? Just for the experience? For the social aspect? Why? If the task is so simple you can do it yourself then people will do it themselves. MMO's need to have content that requires groups or groups won't form. It's like end-game raids, if you could do those solo you certainly would, right?

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601

    Thats exactly what we allready do US.  We dont' buy the hardcore grouping games.  We buy the ones that are solo friendly,  However more often than not the developers realize they are not meeting their financial targets or obligations and so in an effort to bring in more people they put in the things that we like.

    We don't need to say anything, the developers allready realize that tthere are tonnes and tonnes of us and so put in the features anyway.

    and we've allready answered many many many times why people still want to group even in solo friendly games

    1.  People like to group.

    2.  In groups we can go after tougher mobs

    3.  Tougher mobs means more xp and better rewards.

    Once again the fact is that many people are grouping, tonnes of them, even in these solo friendly MMO's.  Whether the game encourages solo or not is irrelevant, they are choosing to group, I am choosing to group, the people I group with are choosing to group, and many many others.  They are not doing it themselves, many are, but many are not.

    People will choose to group for a variety of reason, only one of which is because they may be required to for whatever objective the game sets.

    Venge Sunsoar

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675

    Originally posted by Adamantine

    Originally posted by Cephus404

    [...] The problem is, most people don't want to group. [...]

    Uh, no.

    People playing a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game usually like the idea of interacting with other people.

    I frankly never met anyone who said "no thanks, I dont like grouping" in a MMO.

    Yeah I met people who dont like to do RANDOM groups. But grouping with people of whom you know they are competent is fine to really everyone.

    Then here you go.  No thanks, I don't like grouping.  That's generally true, although in certain rare instances, I will.  I do INTERACT with other people in an MMO, I just don't want to group with them.  They are not the same thing.

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  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675

    Originally posted by UsualSuspect

    Soloers don't want to be forced to do something they don't want to do? Then here's an idea: buy a different MMO. There are dozens of solo-friendly games around now, when an MMO finally comes out that caters to grouping don't go on a whine-fest about how you can't play the game the way you want to. Go play a different one. That's what I do, I don't play an MMO at current because I don't want to solo play my way through them, that to me isn't the essence of an MMO.

    And saying that you can group in these solo friendly MMO's is like saying you can gather a team of people to change a lightbulb. Why would you want to when you can do it yourself? Just for the experience? For the social aspect? Why? If the task is so simple you can do it yourself then people will do it themselves. MMO's need to have content that requires groups or groups won't form. It's like end-game raids, if you could do those solo you certainly would, right?

    I don't play end-game at all, I retire any character that hits level cap.  Therefore, I don't raid at all, nor am I remotely interested in it.

    Whether you like it or not, the developers are going to listen to the majority of their playerbase and that means that soloers will *ALWAYS* win because they vastly outnumber the groupers.  Here's an idea:  go play an FPS where grouping is the norm, not the exception.  I'm sure you don't find the idea appealing any more than it was when you suggested it.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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  • BeartosserBeartosser Member UncommonPosts: 94

    To get to the heart of the group play vs. solo play debate, one must first delve into the personality traits of extroversion and introversion.

    From Wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introvert

    "...An extroverted person is likely to enjoy time spent with people and find less reward in time spent alone. They tend to be energized when around other people, and they are more prone to boredom when they are by themselves..."

    "...Introverts tend to be more reserved and less outspoken in large groups. They often take pleasure in solitary activities such as reading, writing, music, drawing, tinkering, playing video games, watching movies and plays, and using computers..."

    "...Introverts are easily overwhelmed by too much stimulation from social gatherings and engagement..."

    I bring this up since as an introvert, I feel solo players are completely misunderstood by group players. For example the notion that solo players avoid large groups because they're either unskilled or lazy just flies in the face of reality. Personality traits don't come with switches that you can just turn on and off whenever they're convenient, they represent who you are.

    I understand extroverts hate it when us introverts turn down their group requests, but believe me, you guys are far more annoying to us than we could ever be to you, just by our very natures.

  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect Member UncommonPosts: 1,243

    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    Thats exactly what we allready do US.  We dont' buy the hardcore grouping games.  We buy the ones that are solo friendly,  However more often than not the developers realize they are not meeting their financial targets or obligations and so in an effort to bring in more people they put in the things that we like.

    We don't need to say anything, the developers allready realize that tthere are tonnes and tonnes of us and so put in the features anyway.

    Venge Sunsoar

    Then you have to realise that with the increase of solo content the genre has changed almost beyond recognition? The more the developers cater to the soloers, the further away they get from the original idea behind the genre. They're becoming nothing more than single player games with other players populating the world. That was never how MMO's were intended to be and I think it's a sad thing to see the genre fall so far that they've become nothing more than a cheap copy of every other game out there.

    I mean, to me, the only difference between Dragon Age and a modern MMO is the fact there are players running everywhere in an MMO. The actual gameplay is no different. Follow the line of quests from beginning to end all on your own.

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