I don't blame SoE. If a game like Vanguard struggle with less than 10.000 subscribers, the market preferences and customers are to blame. Why should SoE pump money into this when there's clearly no customers for it? I did try to promote Vanguard here, and on a few other boards for over two years. I love this game, but 99.999% of the players don't. I don't regret a single minute I spent in it, and will enjoy the game until the very end.
Hmm, I think I went into this on another thread some time back. So, all I'll say is that SoE has a dismal history which has more to do with how they treat their customer base, rather than the games themselves, which in the past resulted in potential subscribers being more than wary of SoE and their products. This,and other things, led to Vanguard being hamstrung right at the start.
If you support SoE, hey, good for you, it's your wallet anyways not mine.
I think the Vanguard team, did their best and listened to their players. WIth three or four developers working on it last year and half, they managed to pull out some fantastic content players have been asking. I do not defend SoE, but I see their reasons for not investing too much money into it. Around a year ago, when they released a free trial the game was in great shape, there were advertisments for it all around the gaming sites, but it still failed to attract new players.
We all (supporters of Vanguard) should finally realize, a game like Vanguard with many non-combat activities, complicated crafting, diplomacy each with its own inventory system, seamless world and no PvP, has no potential to appeal to a large audience. NCSoft or Turbine would probably close the game immediately when the playerbase would drop below 20k. Actually I can't think of a company that would keep it running at this stage.
When Vanguard was announced to be in development in 02/03, I was one of those who went nuts in celebration. I think the entire guild I was in at the time started packing our bags and got ready to move from EQ to Vanguard. And then Brad sold out to SoE. It was one of the saddest announcements that I ever recall hearing. Since that day, I had no doubt that SoE would ultimately kill Vanguard. Nice to see that SoE is doing their best not to disappoint me.
Brad did not sell out, he got bailed out. He mis-managed that mess into the ground. Brad did everything you could do wrong and more in running a company. He blew 30 mil of microsoft's money. I'm surprised that MS has not sued him for every penny of it. SOE got it for a fraction of that. Brad hid out at home for the last 3 months of the companies existence. It was a sad sad tale. Programmers make sucky business people.
Sadly, you're right. Just wish it was any other company instead of SoE.
As far as I know, Brad was promised these 30 mil, but never fully got it. Microsoft cut the funding half a year before its release, then he looked for a new investments, and that's when SoE came in. Correct me please if I'm wrong.
When Vanguard was announced to be in development in 02/03, I was one of those who went nuts in celebration. I think the entire guild I was in at the time started packing our bags and got ready to move from EQ to Vanguard. And then Brad sold out to SoE. It was one of the saddest announcements that I ever recall hearing. Since that day, I had no doubt that SoE would ultimately kill Vanguard. Nice to see that SoE is doing their best not to disappoint me.
Brad did not sell out, he got bailed out. He mis-managed that mess into the ground. Brad did everything you could do wrong and more in running a company. He blew 30 mil of microsoft's money. I'm surprised that MS has not sued him for every penny of it. SOE got it for a fraction of that. Brad hid out at home for the last 3 months of the companies existence. It was a sad sad tale. Programmers make sucky business people.
Sadly, you're right. Just wish it was any other company instead of SoE.
As far as I know, Brad was promised these 30 mil, but never fully got it. Microsoft cut the funding half a year before its release, then he looked for a new investments, and that's when SoE came in. Correct me please if I'm wrong.
What would you do, when you invest 30 million dollars in a game company. Then 3 years later you check on it and find out hardly anything was done and wonder where all that money went into and also find out that the guy in charge (Brad) was high on drugs.
Microsoft might have a jitload of cash. But it doesn't mean they are a charity organisation. They happily support plenty of talented development studios!
But they rightfully saw that Brad and his game were a lost cause and pulled the plug!
Sad news.......this was the best high fantasy MMO i have ever played. I was taking a break from it after playing it for 6 months, but i doubt i will bother coming back knowing that there will be nothing new..........sad sad
Currently Playing: Fallen Earth Played and liked: TCOS, Vanguard, Guild Wars, DDO Played and didn't like: CO, MO, STO, DF, AoC, WAR, WoW, EQ2, EVE, most f2p Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, Secret World
When Vanguard was announced to be in development in 02/03, I was one of those who went nuts in celebration. I think the entire guild I was in at the time started packing our bags and got ready to move from EQ to Vanguard. And then Brad sold out to SoE. It was one of the saddest announcements that I ever recall hearing. Since that day, I had no doubt that SoE would ultimately kill Vanguard. Nice to see that SoE is doing their best not to disappoint me.
Brad did not sell out, he got bailed out. He mis-managed that mess into the ground. Brad did everything you could do wrong and more in running a company. He blew 30 mil of microsoft's money. I'm surprised that MS has not sued him for every penny of it. SOE got it for a fraction of that. Brad hid out at home for the last 3 months of the companies existence. It was a sad sad tale. Programmers make sucky business people.
Sadly, you're right. Just wish it was any other company instead of SoE.
As far as I know, Brad was promised these 30 mil, but never fully got it. Microsoft cut the funding half a year before its release, then he looked for a new investments, and that's when SoE came in. Correct me please if I'm wrong.
What would you do, when you invest 30 million dollars in a game company. Then 3 years later you check on it and find out hardly anything was done and wonder where all that money went into and also find out that the guy in charge (Brad) was high on drugs.
Microsoft might have a jitload of cash. But it doesn't mean they are a charity organisation. They happily support plenty of talented development studios!
But they rightfully saw that Brad and his game were a lost cause and pulled the plug!
Cheers
Well, my memory's going these days so can't really recall the specifics now. I do recall hearing about the management change issue he was talking about with Microsoft in the interview link below. For what it's worth, and to coin a phrase "... could have been a contender."
First it was the bad management when Brad was at the helm and then MS left the boat an SOE came in and continued its tradition of bad decisionmaking or maybe they only wanted to secure EQ2 would not be hurt in regards to VG.
The Game never had a real chance.
One more with big goals and tiny achievements...
I never udnerstand what SOE has done with any of its mmos. beside the old EQ (EQ2 isnt a real successor).
They have or should have so much ressources and experience and deliver nothing.............
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
Hmm, just finished the interview in my link above. Very interesting read. Suggest that anyone who wants, go have a read. That's if the damn link will even work. Every time I cut and paste it over as a link, it vanishes.
Hmm, just finished the interview in my link above. Very interesting read. Suggest that anyone who wants, go have a read. That's if the damn link will even work. Every time I cut and paste it over as a link, it vanishes.
Yes, the interview explains quite clearly how it was. Microsoft changed focus in their gaming department, and cut the funding for Vanguard. Gave them unrealistic deadline, July 2006 and stopped caring about it completely. At that time, Brad went out of office to look for another investment, and that's when SoE came.
Microsoft published Turbine's Asheron's Call 2 in 2002. They did the funding, Turbine did the development. Asheron's Call 2 had a horrible release from which it couldn't stabilize and was shut down in 2005. Turbine bought the license for AC off from Microsoft in 2003. We can only speculate that Microsoft did something similiar with Asheron's Call 2 as well.
"Microsoft’s name comes up a suspicious number of times. The closure of Asheron's Call 2 is probably the most high-profile of these. Mythica, True Fantasy Online, Vanguard, and now Marvel Universe were all dented by the Redmond giant’s deft touch. "
Hmm, just finished the interview in my link above. Very interesting read. Suggest that anyone who wants, go have a read. That's if the damn link will even work. Every time I cut and paste it over as a link, it vanishes.
Yes, the interview explains quite clearly how it was. Microsoft changed focus in their gaming department, and cut the funding for Vanguard. Gave them unrealistic deadline, July 2006 and stopped caring about it completely. At that time, Brad went out of office to look for another investment, and that's when SoE came.
That's only a very biased one side of the story.
If Microsoft saw a lot of potential in Vanguard to make money (wich is were it all comes down to in any bussiness), they wouldn't have pulled the plug.
Seeing how, even after the new financial surge they received from SOE, they still managed to deliver a horribly performing empty game. Only means that Microsoft was right about pulling the plug. As they saw the game wasn't going anywhere. It would have cost them way too much money to get the game into a releasable state. Too much money to ever earn back on sales and subs.
People forget, that after release, when the game bombed hard and SOE finally bailed out Sigil, dropped Brad and took over the dev team. They left most devs to work on the game inhouse SOE for the first year in an attempt to bring it around.
A year later the performance had drastically improved, but subs kept dropping like flies. And after that SOE pretty much gave up and pulled more and more devs from the team.
I already saw back then, that the game wasn't going to get anywhere, as it kept bleeding subs.
The game launched in such an unfinished state, that it was already a lost cause and nothing could change it's course.
Ofcourse the core of diehard fans don't and will never want to see the reality and truth. That's fine. They can keep living in a dream.
Yes, the interview explains quite clearly how it was. Microsoft changed focus in their gaming department, and cut the funding for Vanguard. Gave them unrealistic deadline, July 2006 and stopped caring about it completely. At that time, Brad went out of office to look for another investment, and that's when SoE came.
That's only a very biased one side of the story.
Quite frankly, I would rather believe Brad than Microsoft in this matter. Brad's history is Everquest 1 - extremly successful MMORPG at that time. Microsoft MMO history is: Asheron's Call 2, Marvel Universe, Mythica and Fantasy Online. All were either not even released, or shut down soon after release.
Yes, the interview explains quite clearly how it was. Microsoft changed focus in their gaming department, and cut the funding for Vanguard. Gave them unrealistic deadline, July 2006 and stopped caring about it completely. At that time, Brad went out of office to look for another investment, and that's when SoE came.
That's only a very biased one side of the story.
Quite frankly, I would rather believe Brad than Microsoft in this matter. Brad's history is Everquest 1 - extremly successful MMORPG at that time. Microsoft MMO history is: Asheron's Call 2, Marvel Universe, Mythica and Fantasy Online. All were either not even released, or shut down soon after release.
Dude,
I guess you totally forgot about Brad being a drug addict during Vanguard's development and him hardly being around, because he was more busy living in a different dimension?
EverQuest 1 might have been a success. But it wasn't only Brad that made it a success.
Just like that farce of a Richard Garriott not being the real person that made Ultima series and UO to a sucess all by his own.
They are both having a big mouth and know how to talk well.
Ironically they both FAILED HARD and went off radar ever since, when they were put in charge of MMO development themselves and clearly couldn't deliver at all.
Guess they weren't so talented and gifted after all isn't. And that it was actually someone else who made them rich and succesful back then. They just claimed all the credit!
Can anyone access the official VG forum? It seems to be down so far as I can see, can't get to it. Hence I can't see the original accouncement, what does it say exactly?
Incidentally I don't blame SOE over the fate of VG, all those still playing the game know full well that all the damage was done to the game's prospects unde Sigil and that without SOE's bailout they wouldn't have been playing the game post-beta. It had a lot of potential, and time was when potential kept a game afloat but these days MMOs are ten a penny and there just isn't the same viability in a game that hasn't actually fulfilled its potential or at the very least come close to doing so. VG is still a long way off compared to say WAR or AoC which are gradually getting there.
Can anyone access the official VG forum? It seems to be down so far as I can see, can't get to it. Hence I can't see the original accouncement, what does it say exactly? Incidentally I don't blame SOE over the fate of VG, all those still playing the game know full well that all the damage was done to the game's prospects unde Sigil and that without SOE's bailout they wouldn't have been playing the game post-beta. It had a lot of potential, and time was when potential kept a game afloat but these days MMOs are ten a penny and there just isn't the same viability in a game that hasn't actually fulfilled its potential or at the very least come close to doing so. VG is still a long way off compared to say WAR or AoC which are gradually getting there.
"Hello once again everyone. As mentioned in my previous post here is a high level of what we are looking at releasing over the next year. We are trying to pull back on some of the more ambitious features due to resource limitations. All projects in the company have very busy schedules and are all doing the best we can with resources as we continue to support our games.
The Vanguard team has always tried to do more with what we have and it has not always panned out. This unfortunately has resulted in a long gap between releases of content and when finally released that content has had its problems. After reviewing this we have come up with a more focused plan of attack.
One obvious area of focus is bug fixing. We have once again scheduled focused bug fixing time to go along with our standard background bug bashing. We have also taken areas of interest and broken them down into smaller implementation pieces that are much easier to manage from the development and QA side.
Doing this will hopefully accomplish the following goals:
• More frequent content releases
• More time spent on focused testing rather than testing many things at once allowing some bugs slip through
• Focused content that starts and ends a chunk of storytelling
• Reinvigorating the community as new stuff is released more frequently showing that this old game still has some tricks.
Because of this reevaluation of how we utilize our resources there is the dreaded shelving of some of our more ambitious features. In an effort to be as transparent as possible I want to let it be known that the following features/content have been shelved indefinitely for now.
• Alternate Advancement
• Halls of Shattered Souls
• Stiirhaad Mountains
• Pankor Zhi
• Nexus
We are not happy that we have to put these things aside for now but as a team we must focus and as 2010 unfolds see if we can once again discuss how we would like to see the above mentioned items implemented.
With that out of the way let me discuss what we will be working on. Firstly some of you may have noticed that some of the items on the player wish list have been worked on. A few months back we took that list, identified things that would be possible with our current resources and then prioritized it. The logistics of some of them are a bit complicated but know that we are looking at getting many things ranging from housing related additions to UI tweaks implemented.
One big thing we are looking into currently and trying to execute early next year is a server merge. We recognize that the community is spread out and Telon is gigantic so bring many of you closer together makes sense from both sides of the coin. This is not a definite option as we have some technical issues that did not exist when we merged servers last time and as such we need to work out the details there.
As mentioned above bug bashing is still a priority for the year. While we want to continue to release new content we understand that new breeds more issues and these issues just compound the fact that some old issues still exist. This is part of the reason why we are toning down our releases. This gives us more time to tackle bugs while giving some content for everyone and breathing life into some areas of Telon that could really use it.
Lastly we are looking at releasing a chunk of content each month. These content drops will be chapters of a larger story told in various parts. Pantheon was supposed to play out this way, unfortunately Pantheon was not split up enough and we have since learned from the mistakes made there.
The upcoming content is small group - group focused with potential for some raid targets linked to it. The locations for this content will be areas that are under utilized or deserving of some form of revamp. As many of you have said Vanguard has some areas that have little to no content in them and need to be evaluated. The following list is a high level plan for the content next year. Please note there are no solid dates yet as we are still evaluating some things.
1. Server Merge (this would not include Halgar)
Note the server merge is only being considered at this time. This is not a definite by any stretch of the imagination. We have to weigh the requirement sot execute this and what it means for anything else we may have to work on in regards to Vanguard. I wanted to put this here so you knew we were looking into this and it would not come as a surprise if announced.
2. Anniversary
3. Shadow Hilsbury
4. Magi Hold – Chapters 1 - 3
5. Focused Bug Fixing pass part 1
6. Diplomacy Saga next 2 releases
7. Focused Bug Fixing pass part 2
8. Old Targonor – Chapters 1 - 5
The continued class evaluations are still being looked at as we have run into some problems and are trying to look into the best course of action. Once we have figured this out we will finish the rest.
I want to once again thank all of you for the support you have given this team. As Vanguard gets closer to another birthday I am happy that all of you have been here to see the game grow. Here’s to Vanguard, and to all of you may your holiday be merry and your new year bright."
This is what SOE does with games. They just let them waste away and neglect them. To bad you people still playinmg thier games do not realize this. People should just stop playing SOE games completely and watch them go under as they should have done long ago. As long as John Smedley is in charge this is what you can expect.
This is what SOE does with games. They just let them waste away and neglect them. To bad you people still playinmg thier games do not realize this. People should just stop playing SOE games completely and watch them go under as they should have done long ago. As long as John Smedley is in charge this is what you can expect.
ah sad.. and i just wanted to download the trail.. ah well, maby we can hope this game goes free to play or something? or SOE doesn't sell their games after they have shutted it down?
------------------------------------------------------------------- waiting for ... nothing..
Ive missed that some of devs was on drugs while VG was in work progress. Anyone care to link a good source? And its a sad day to see VG in this shape, its like watching a dead horse get beaten by a stick of some sort.
so much hate toward SOE:...well its a very professional buisness even if you maybe dont agree with their way. but fact is the player base let down this game, by not playing it. so why spend extra $$$ on it. Vanguard is properbly one the most of an MMORPG I personally played.
SOE made the mistake release this game too early, but now that its rather polished ppl still stay away....because they are oh so letted down by its release. I for one dont get the ppl cry about its potential, when it is actually right there. maybe not as well polished as WoW or what else to compare it to. it just is abit diffrent style.
either way the game aint shutted down, if you like a real MMORPG go play this....then maybe next year it would get proper funding...if only afew 1000 play am sure you all is right and it will be shutted down. or kept on afew server and never updated, just kept running to make their station passsees attractive.
you havent been paying for the last few years of polish and server stability improvements, that the "HC" fans of this kind of MMO did - just a note I aint one of them, and am just playing "while waitin for next expansion". but the few group dungeons Ive been in were simply amazing.
customers decision...and SOE still keep that decision open...but would understand how max lvl ppl would cancel since they properbly done it all already.
Thanks Thillian for reproducing the announcement, just what I wanted to see.
I see Teala is as jaundiced as ever about SOE, there's no doubt it's a company you either love or hate and I suggest people try out their games and make their own minds up. Most of the haters fell out with SOE a long time ago over issues that simply don't apply to anyone starting out on their games today.
Whilst the post from Silius is fairly regarded as an unwelcome announcement for VG, in some ways it is positive in that I'd rather they focused on what they can achieve rather than trying to spread their resources too thinly and as a result achieve nothing, or at least nothing of real quality and that has been the criticism of the players in the past. The situation with some other SOE games is of course quite different, with EQ1 having just launched its 16th expansion and EQ2's development also going strongly and with another expansion due there in the New Year. Both of those games have a pretty solid playerbase and are very well supported by SOE.
I dislike a lot of SOE's business methods including their obsessions with card games and RMT but I can't if I'm honest fault their commitment to the EQ games even if I sometimes wish they'd stick with the existing core design and not keep trying to change it! I'm playing EQ2 again after a break doing other stuff (they appear to have opened frozen accounts to the end of the year) and it's playing really well.
Yes, the interview explains quite clearly how it was. Microsoft changed focus in their gaming department, and cut the funding for Vanguard. Gave them unrealistic deadline, July 2006 and stopped caring about it completely. At that time, Brad went out of office to look for another investment, and that's when SoE came.
That's only a very biased one side of the story.
Quite frankly, I would rather believe Brad than Microsoft in this matter. Brad's history is Everquest 1 - extremly successful MMORPG at that time. Microsoft MMO history is: Asheron's Call 2, Marvel Universe, Mythica and Fantasy Online. All were either not even released, or shut down soon after release.
Dude,
I guess you totally forgot about Brad being a drug addict during Vanguard's development and him hardly being around, because he was more busy living in a different dimension?
EverQuest 1 might have been a success. But it wasn't only Brad that made it a success.
Just like that farce of a Richard Garriott not being the real person that made Ultima series and UO to a sucess all by his own.
They are both having a big mouth and know how to talk well.
Ironically they both FAILED HARD and went off radar ever since, when they were put in charge of MMO development themselves and clearly couldn't deliver at all.
Guess they weren't so talented and gifted after all isn't. And that it was actually someone else who made them rich and succesful back then. They just claimed all the credit!
Cheers
Brad cannot run a company, that much is clear. However EQ was great and so was Vanguard despite its terrible condition. I don't think his failure as a business owner detracts from his ability to create interesting games.
Putting creative people in charge of the purse stings will usually result in failures like this, because they focus on the creative aspects and not the realities.
It was one of the saddest announcements that I ever recall hearing. Since that day, I had no doubt that SoE would ultimately kill Vanguard. Nice to see that SoE is doing their best not to disappoint me.
I don't blame SoE. If a game like Vanguard struggle with less than 10.000 subscribers, the market preferences and customers are to blame. Why should SoE pump money into this when there's clearly no customers for it? I did try to promote Vanguard here, and on a few other boards for over two years. I love this game, but 99.999% of the players don't. I don't regret a single minute I spent in it, and will enjoy the game until the very end.
Why would customers support a game that was delivered in the condition it was in? In order for that to happen there would have to be something for players to believe in, something they could believe would right the course of Vanguard if they chose to support it. The moment soe "partnered" with sigil the outcry from players was that this situation is exactly what would happen vanguard. Sadly, but not surprisingly, they were right.
It isn't like soe getting involved provided an infusion of confidence that players could associate with and thus support the game. In fact it made a sizable portion of potential players walk away from the game.
Can anyone access the official VG forum? It seems to be down so far as I can see, can't get to it. Hence I can't see the original accouncement, what does it say exactly? Incidentally I don't blame SOE over the fate of VG, all those still playing the game know full well that all the damage was done to the game's prospects unde Sigil and that without SOE's bailout they wouldn't have been playing the game post-beta. It had a lot of potential, and time was when potential kept a game afloat but these days MMOs are ten a penny and there just isn't the same viability in a game that hasn't actually fulfilled its potential or at the very least come close to doing so. VG is still a long way off compared to say WAR or AoC which are gradually getting there.
"Hello once again everyone. As mentioned in my previous post here is a high level of what we are looking at releasing over the next year. We are trying to pull back on some of the more ambitious features due to resource limitations. All projects in the company have very busy schedules and are all doing the best we can with resources as we continue to support our games.
The Vanguard team has always tried to do more with what we have and it has not always panned out. This unfortunately has resulted in a long gap between releases of content and when finally released that content has had its problems. After reviewing this we have come up with a more focused plan of attack.
One obvious area of focus is bug fixing. We have once again scheduled focused bug fixing time to go along with our standard background bug bashing. We have also taken areas of interest and broken them down into smaller implementation pieces that are much easier to manage from the development and QA side.
Doing this will hopefully accomplish the following goals:
• More frequent content releases
• More time spent on focused testing rather than testing many things at once allowing some bugs slip through
• Focused content that starts and ends a chunk of storytelling
• Reinvigorating the community as new stuff is released more frequently showing that this old game still has some tricks.
Because of this reevaluation of how we utilize our resources there is the dreaded shelving of some of our more ambitious features. In an effort to be as transparent as possible I want to let it be known that the following features/content have been shelved indefinitely for now.
• Alternate Advancement
• Halls of Shattered Souls
• Stiirhaad Mountains
• Pankor Zhi
• Nexus
We are not happy that we have to put these things aside for now but as a team we must focus and as 2010 unfolds see if we can once again discuss how we would like to see the above mentioned items implemented.
With that out of the way let me discuss what we will be working on. Firstly some of you may have noticed that some of the items on the player wish list have been worked on. A few months back we took that list, identified things that would be possible with our current resources and then prioritized it. The logistics of some of them are a bit complicated but know that we are looking at getting many things ranging from housing related additions to UI tweaks implemented.
One big thing we are looking into currently and trying to execute early next year is a server merge. We recognize that the community is spread out and Telon is gigantic so bring many of you closer together makes sense from both sides of the coin. This is not a definite option as we have some technical issues that did not exist when we merged servers last time and as such we need to work out the details there.
As mentioned above bug bashing is still a priority for the year. While we want to continue to release new content we understand that new breeds more issues and these issues just compound the fact that some old issues still exist. This is part of the reason why we are toning down our releases. This gives us more time to tackle bugs while giving some content for everyone and breathing life into some areas of Telon that could really use it.
Lastly we are looking at releasing a chunk of content each month. These content drops will be chapters of a larger story told in various parts. Pantheon was supposed to play out this way, unfortunately Pantheon was not split up enough and we have since learned from the mistakes made there.
The upcoming content is small group - group focused with potential for some raid targets linked to it. The locations for this content will be areas that are under utilized or deserving of some form of revamp. As many of you have said Vanguard has some areas that have little to no content in them and need to be evaluated. The following list is a high level plan for the content next year. Please note there are no solid dates yet as we are still evaluating some things.
1. Server Merge (this would not include Halgar)
Note the server merge is only being considered at this time. This is not a definite by any stretch of the imagination. We have to weigh the requirement sot execute this and what it means for anything else we may have to work on in regards to Vanguard. I wanted to put this here so you knew we were looking into this and it would not come as a surprise if announced.
2. Anniversary
3. Shadow Hilsbury
4. Magi Hold – Chapters 1 - 3
5. Focused Bug Fixing pass part 1
6. Diplomacy Saga next 2 releases
7. Focused Bug Fixing pass part 2
8. Old Targonor – Chapters 1 - 5
The continued class evaluations are still being looked at as we have run into some problems and are trying to look into the best course of action. Once we have figured this out we will finish the rest.
I want to once again thank all of you for the support you have given this team. As Vanguard gets closer to another birthday I am happy that all of you have been here to see the game grow. Here’s to Vanguard, and to all of you may your holiday be merry and your new year bright."
Where exactly in this announcement is the doomsday?
Looks like they are deciding to do some bug cleaning that has been put off because the team has been getting too directed to new ideas.
How is starting the year planning to bug fix bad news?
Sure they say some things have to be put aside, and the crew isn't huge, but where is the doomsday?
Sounds to me like the modest crew is being put into work mode to take care of what I assume are important game issues needing attention in favor of more fun to program new ideas.
It was one of the saddest announcements that I ever recall hearing. Since that day, I had no doubt that SoE would ultimately kill Vanguard. Nice to see that SoE is doing their best not to disappoint me.
I don't blame SoE. If a game like Vanguard struggle with less than 10.000 subscribers, the market preferences and customers are to blame. Why should SoE pump money into this when there's clearly no customers for it? I did try to promote Vanguard here, and on a few other boards for over two years. I love this game, but 99.999% of the players don't. I don't regret a single minute I spent in it, and will enjoy the game until the very end.
Why would customers support a game that was delivered in the condition it was in? In order for that to happen there would have to be something for players to believe in, something they could believe would right the course of Vanguard if they chose to support it. The moment soe "partnered" with sigil the outcry from players was that this situation is exactly what would happen vanguard. Sadly, but not surprisingly, they were right.
It isn't like soe getting involved provided an infusion of confidence that players could associate with and thus support the game. In fact it made a sizable portion of potential players walk away from the game.
And for good reason, since SoE habitually and unceasingly crap on their players. Their reputation for it is well known.
Where exactly in this announcement is the doomsday? Looks like they are deciding to do some bug cleaning that has been put off because the team has been getting too directed to new ideas. How is starting the year planning to bug fix bad news? Sure they say some things have to be put aside, and the crew isn't huge, but where is the doomsday? Sounds to me like the modest crew is being put into work mode to take care of what I assume are important game issues needing attention in favor of more fun to program new ideas. Maybe I missed something in the announcement?
Because they used the bug fixing excuse since launch. For the first year we can all eat that. As it was sertainly needed.
But at this moment that excuse bird doesn't fly anymore. And seeing that they pretty much shelve everything people have been graving for. Is Doomsday. It means Silius is pretty much the only one left, with maybe an interim one or two. And just posponing the inevitable.
Comments
Hmm, I think I went into this on another thread some time back. So, all I'll say is that SoE has a dismal history which has more to do with how they treat their customer base, rather than the games themselves, which in the past resulted in potential subscribers being more than wary of SoE and their products. This,and other things, led to Vanguard being hamstrung right at the start.
If you support SoE, hey, good for you, it's your wallet anyways not mine.
I think the Vanguard team, did their best and listened to their players. WIth three or four developers working on it last year and half, they managed to pull out some fantastic content players have been asking. I do not defend SoE, but I see their reasons for not investing too much money into it. Around a year ago, when they released a free trial the game was in great shape, there were advertisments for it all around the gaming sites, but it still failed to attract new players.
We all (supporters of Vanguard) should finally realize, a game like Vanguard with many non-combat activities, complicated crafting, diplomacy each with its own inventory system, seamless world and no PvP, has no potential to appeal to a large audience. NCSoft or Turbine would probably close the game immediately when the playerbase would drop below 20k. Actually I can't think of a company that would keep it running at this stage.
REALITY CHECK
Brad did not sell out, he got bailed out. He mis-managed that mess into the ground. Brad did everything you could do wrong and more in running a company. He blew 30 mil of microsoft's money. I'm surprised that MS has not sued him for every penny of it. SOE got it for a fraction of that. Brad hid out at home for the last 3 months of the companies existence. It was a sad sad tale. Programmers make sucky business people.
Sadly, you're right. Just wish it was any other company instead of SoE.
As far as I know, Brad was promised these 30 mil, but never fully got it. Microsoft cut the funding half a year before its release, then he looked for a new investments, and that's when SoE came in. Correct me please if I'm wrong.
REALITY CHECK
Brad did not sell out, he got bailed out. He mis-managed that mess into the ground. Brad did everything you could do wrong and more in running a company. He blew 30 mil of microsoft's money. I'm surprised that MS has not sued him for every penny of it. SOE got it for a fraction of that. Brad hid out at home for the last 3 months of the companies existence. It was a sad sad tale. Programmers make sucky business people.
Sadly, you're right. Just wish it was any other company instead of SoE.
As far as I know, Brad was promised these 30 mil, but never fully got it. Microsoft cut the funding half a year before its release, then he looked for a new investments, and that's when SoE came in. Correct me please if I'm wrong.
What would you do, when you invest 30 million dollars in a game company. Then 3 years later you check on it and find out hardly anything was done and wonder where all that money went into and also find out that the guy in charge (Brad) was high on drugs.
Microsoft might have a jitload of cash. But it doesn't mean they are a charity organisation. They happily support plenty of talented development studios!
But they rightfully saw that Brad and his game were a lost cause and pulled the plug!
Cheers
Sad news.......this was the best high fantasy MMO i have ever played. I was taking a break from it after playing it for 6 months, but i doubt i will bother coming back knowing that there will be nothing new..........sad sad
Currently Playing: Fallen Earth
Played and liked: TCOS, Vanguard, Guild Wars, DDO
Played and didn't like: CO, MO, STO, DF, AoC, WAR, WoW, EQ2, EVE, most f2p
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, Secret World
Brad did not sell out, he got bailed out. He mis-managed that mess into the ground. Brad did everything you could do wrong and more in running a company. He blew 30 mil of microsoft's money. I'm surprised that MS has not sued him for every penny of it. SOE got it for a fraction of that. Brad hid out at home for the last 3 months of the companies existence. It was a sad sad tale. Programmers make sucky business people.
Sadly, you're right. Just wish it was any other company instead of SoE.
As far as I know, Brad was promised these 30 mil, but never fully got it. Microsoft cut the funding half a year before its release, then he looked for a new investments, and that's when SoE came in. Correct me please if I'm wrong.
What would you do, when you invest 30 million dollars in a game company. Then 3 years later you check on it and find out hardly anything was done and wonder where all that money went into and also find out that the guy in charge (Brad) was high on drugs.
Microsoft might have a jitload of cash. But it doesn't mean they are a charity organisation. They happily support plenty of talented development studios!
But they rightfully saw that Brad and his game were a lost cause and pulled the plug!
Cheers
Well, my memory's going these days so can't really recall the specifics now. I do recall hearing about the management change issue he was talking about with Microsoft in the interview link below. For what it's worth, and to coin a phrase "... could have been a contender."
http://www.f13.net/index.php?itemid=562
Apologies but I can't seem to get the link to work properly.
First it was the bad management when Brad was at the helm and then MS left the boat an SOE came in and continued its tradition of bad decisionmaking or maybe they only wanted to secure EQ2 would not be hurt in regards to VG.
The Game never had a real chance.
One more with big goals and tiny achievements...
I never udnerstand what SOE has done with any of its mmos. beside the old EQ (EQ2 isnt a real successor).
They have or should have so much ressources and experience and deliver nothing.............
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
Hmm, just finished the interview in my link above. Very interesting read. Suggest that anyone who wants, go have a read. That's if the damn link will even work. Every time I cut and paste it over as a link, it vanishes.
Yes, the interview explains quite clearly how it was. Microsoft changed focus in their gaming department, and cut the funding for Vanguard. Gave them unrealistic deadline, July 2006 and stopped caring about it completely. At that time, Brad went out of office to look for another investment, and that's when SoE came.
REALITY CHECK
Just a little remainder.
Microsoft published Turbine's Asheron's Call 2 in 2002. They did the funding, Turbine did the development. Asheron's Call 2 had a horrible release from which it couldn't stabilize and was shut down in 2005. Turbine bought the license for AC off from Microsoft in 2003. We can only speculate that Microsoft did something similiar with Asheron's Call 2 as well.
Turbine buying rights for AC: http://www.microsoft.com/games/press/default.aspx?no=ac2_20031217001 (December, 2003)
AC2 info: released on November 22, 2002 and shut down on December 30, 2005
Article about Microsoft MMO missmanagement
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18450
"Microsoft’s name comes up a suspicious number of times. The closure of Asheron's Call 2 is probably the most high-profile of these. Mythica, True Fantasy Online, Vanguard, and now Marvel Universe were all dented by the Redmond giant’s deft touch. "
REALITY CHECK
Yes, the interview explains quite clearly how it was. Microsoft changed focus in their gaming department, and cut the funding for Vanguard. Gave them unrealistic deadline, July 2006 and stopped caring about it completely. At that time, Brad went out of office to look for another investment, and that's when SoE came.
That's only a very biased one side of the story.
If Microsoft saw a lot of potential in Vanguard to make money (wich is were it all comes down to in any bussiness), they wouldn't have pulled the plug.
Seeing how, even after the new financial surge they received from SOE, they still managed to deliver a horribly performing empty game. Only means that Microsoft was right about pulling the plug. As they saw the game wasn't going anywhere. It would have cost them way too much money to get the game into a releasable state. Too much money to ever earn back on sales and subs.
People forget, that after release, when the game bombed hard and SOE finally bailed out Sigil, dropped Brad and took over the dev team. They left most devs to work on the game inhouse SOE for the first year in an attempt to bring it around.
A year later the performance had drastically improved, but subs kept dropping like flies. And after that SOE pretty much gave up and pulled more and more devs from the team.
I already saw back then, that the game wasn't going to get anywhere, as it kept bleeding subs.
The game launched in such an unfinished state, that it was already a lost cause and nothing could change it's course.
Ofcourse the core of diehard fans don't and will never want to see the reality and truth. That's fine. They can keep living in a dream.
Cheers
That's only a very biased one side of the story.
Quite frankly, I would rather believe Brad than Microsoft in this matter. Brad's history is Everquest 1 - extremly successful MMORPG at that time. Microsoft MMO history is: Asheron's Call 2, Marvel Universe, Mythica and Fantasy Online. All were either not even released, or shut down soon after release.
REALITY CHECK
That's only a very biased one side of the story.
Quite frankly, I would rather believe Brad than Microsoft in this matter. Brad's history is Everquest 1 - extremly successful MMORPG at that time. Microsoft MMO history is: Asheron's Call 2, Marvel Universe, Mythica and Fantasy Online. All were either not even released, or shut down soon after release.
Dude,
I guess you totally forgot about Brad being a drug addict during Vanguard's development and him hardly being around, because he was more busy living in a different dimension?
EverQuest 1 might have been a success. But it wasn't only Brad that made it a success.
Just like that farce of a Richard Garriott not being the real person that made Ultima series and UO to a sucess all by his own.
They are both having a big mouth and know how to talk well.
Ironically they both FAILED HARD and went off radar ever since, when they were put in charge of MMO development themselves and clearly couldn't deliver at all.
Guess they weren't so talented and gifted after all isn't. And that it was actually someone else who made them rich and succesful back then. They just claimed all the credit!
Cheers
Can anyone access the official VG forum? It seems to be down so far as I can see, can't get to it. Hence I can't see the original accouncement, what does it say exactly?
Incidentally I don't blame SOE over the fate of VG, all those still playing the game know full well that all the damage was done to the game's prospects unde Sigil and that without SOE's bailout they wouldn't have been playing the game post-beta. It had a lot of potential, and time was when potential kept a game afloat but these days MMOs are ten a penny and there just isn't the same viability in a game that hasn't actually fulfilled its potential or at the very least come close to doing so. VG is still a long way off compared to say WAR or AoC which are gradually getting there.
Originally posted by Silius on
http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?&topic_id=51939
"Hello once again everyone. As mentioned in my previous post here is a high level of what we are looking at releasing over the next year. We are trying to pull back on some of the more ambitious features due to resource limitations. All projects in the company have very busy schedules and are all doing the best we can with resources as we continue to support our games.
The Vanguard team has always tried to do more with what we have and it has not always panned out. This unfortunately has resulted in a long gap between releases of content and when finally released that content has had its problems. After reviewing this we have come up with a more focused plan of attack.
One obvious area of focus is bug fixing. We have once again scheduled focused bug fixing time to go along with our standard background bug bashing. We have also taken areas of interest and broken them down into smaller implementation pieces that are much easier to manage from the development and QA side.
Doing this will hopefully accomplish the following goals:
• More frequent content releases
• More time spent on focused testing rather than testing many things at once allowing some bugs slip through
• Focused content that starts and ends a chunk of storytelling
• Reinvigorating the community as new stuff is released more frequently showing that this old game still has some tricks.
Because of this reevaluation of how we utilize our resources there is the dreaded shelving of some of our more ambitious features. In an effort to be as transparent as possible I want to let it be known that the following features/content have been shelved indefinitely for now.
• Alternate Advancement
• Halls of Shattered Souls
• Stiirhaad Mountains
• Pankor Zhi
• Nexus
We are not happy that we have to put these things aside for now but as a team we must focus and as 2010 unfolds see if we can once again discuss how we would like to see the above mentioned items implemented.
With that out of the way let me discuss what we will be working on. Firstly some of you may have noticed that some of the items on the player wish list have been worked on. A few months back we took that list, identified things that would be possible with our current resources and then prioritized it. The logistics of some of them are a bit complicated but know that we are looking at getting many things ranging from housing related additions to UI tweaks implemented.
One big thing we are looking into currently and trying to execute early next year is a server merge. We recognize that the community is spread out and Telon is gigantic so bring many of you closer together makes sense from both sides of the coin. This is not a definite option as we have some technical issues that did not exist when we merged servers last time and as such we need to work out the details there.
As mentioned above bug bashing is still a priority for the year. While we want to continue to release new content we understand that new breeds more issues and these issues just compound the fact that some old issues still exist. This is part of the reason why we are toning down our releases. This gives us more time to tackle bugs while giving some content for everyone and breathing life into some areas of Telon that could really use it.
Lastly we are looking at releasing a chunk of content each month. These content drops will be chapters of a larger story told in various parts. Pantheon was supposed to play out this way, unfortunately Pantheon was not split up enough and we have since learned from the mistakes made there.
The upcoming content is small group - group focused with potential for some raid targets linked to it. The locations for this content will be areas that are under utilized or deserving of some form of revamp. As many of you have said Vanguard has some areas that have little to no content in them and need to be evaluated. The following list is a high level plan for the content next year. Please note there are no solid dates yet as we are still evaluating some things.
1. Server Merge (this would not include Halgar)
Note the server merge is only being considered at this time. This is not a definite by any stretch of the imagination. We have to weigh the requirement sot execute this and what it means for anything else we may have to work on in regards to Vanguard. I wanted to put this here so you knew we were looking into this and it would not come as a surprise if announced.
2. Anniversary
3. Shadow Hilsbury
4. Magi Hold – Chapters 1 - 3
5. Focused Bug Fixing pass part 1
6. Diplomacy Saga next 2 releases
7. Focused Bug Fixing pass part 2
8. Old Targonor – Chapters 1 - 5
The continued class evaluations are still being looked at as we have run into some problems and are trying to look into the best course of action. Once we have figured this out we will finish the rest.
I want to once again thank all of you for the support you have given this team. As Vanguard gets closer to another birthday I am happy that all of you have been here to see the game grow. Here’s to Vanguard, and to all of you may your holiday be merry and your new year bright."
REALITY CHECK
This is what SOE does with games. They just let them waste away and neglect them. To bad you people still playinmg thier games do not realize this. People should just stop playing SOE games completely and watch them go under as they should have done long ago. As long as John Smedley is in charge this is what you can expect.
Which is a shame, 'cause DCUO looks awesome.
ah sad.. and i just wanted to download the trail.. ah well, maby we can hope this game goes free to play or something? or SOE doesn't sell their games after they have shutted it down?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
waiting for ... nothing..
Ive missed that some of devs was on drugs while VG was in work progress. Anyone care to link a good source? And its a sad day to see VG in this shape, its like watching a dead horse get beaten by a stick of some sort.
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so much hate toward SOE:...well its a very professional buisness even if you maybe dont agree with their way. but fact is the player base let down this game, by not playing it. so why spend extra $$$ on it. Vanguard is properbly one the most of an MMORPG I personally played.
SOE made the mistake release this game too early, but now that its rather polished ppl still stay away....because they are oh so letted down by its release. I for one dont get the ppl cry about its potential, when it is actually right there. maybe not as well polished as WoW or what else to compare it to. it just is abit diffrent style.
either way the game aint shutted down, if you like a real MMORPG go play this....then maybe next year it would get proper funding...if only afew 1000 play am sure you all is right and it will be shutted down. or kept on afew server and never updated, just kept running to make their station passsees attractive.
you havent been paying for the last few years of polish and server stability improvements, that the "HC" fans of this kind of MMO did - just a note I aint one of them, and am just playing "while waitin for next expansion". but the few group dungeons Ive been in were simply amazing.
customers decision...and SOE still keep that decision open...but would understand how max lvl ppl would cancel since they properbly done it all already.
Thanks Thillian for reproducing the announcement, just what I wanted to see.
I see Teala is as jaundiced as ever about SOE, there's no doubt it's a company you either love or hate and I suggest people try out their games and make their own minds up. Most of the haters fell out with SOE a long time ago over issues that simply don't apply to anyone starting out on their games today.
Whilst the post from Silius is fairly regarded as an unwelcome announcement for VG, in some ways it is positive in that I'd rather they focused on what they can achieve rather than trying to spread their resources too thinly and as a result achieve nothing, or at least nothing of real quality and that has been the criticism of the players in the past. The situation with some other SOE games is of course quite different, with EQ1 having just launched its 16th expansion and EQ2's development also going strongly and with another expansion due there in the New Year. Both of those games have a pretty solid playerbase and are very well supported by SOE.
I dislike a lot of SOE's business methods including their obsessions with card games and RMT but I can't if I'm honest fault their commitment to the EQ games even if I sometimes wish they'd stick with the existing core design and not keep trying to change it! I'm playing EQ2 again after a break doing other stuff (they appear to have opened frozen accounts to the end of the year) and it's playing really well.
That's only a very biased one side of the story.
Quite frankly, I would rather believe Brad than Microsoft in this matter. Brad's history is Everquest 1 - extremly successful MMORPG at that time. Microsoft MMO history is: Asheron's Call 2, Marvel Universe, Mythica and Fantasy Online. All were either not even released, or shut down soon after release.
Dude,
I guess you totally forgot about Brad being a drug addict during Vanguard's development and him hardly being around, because he was more busy living in a different dimension?
EverQuest 1 might have been a success. But it wasn't only Brad that made it a success.
Just like that farce of a Richard Garriott not being the real person that made Ultima series and UO to a sucess all by his own.
They are both having a big mouth and know how to talk well.
Ironically they both FAILED HARD and went off radar ever since, when they were put in charge of MMO development themselves and clearly couldn't deliver at all.
Guess they weren't so talented and gifted after all isn't. And that it was actually someone else who made them rich and succesful back then. They just claimed all the credit!
Cheers
Brad cannot run a company, that much is clear. However EQ was great and so was Vanguard despite its terrible condition. I don't think his failure as a business owner detracts from his ability to create interesting games.
Putting creative people in charge of the purse stings will usually result in failures like this, because they focus on the creative aspects and not the realities.
I don't blame SoE. If a game like Vanguard struggle with less than 10.000 subscribers, the market preferences and customers are to blame. Why should SoE pump money into this when there's clearly no customers for it? I did try to promote Vanguard here, and on a few other boards for over two years. I love this game, but 99.999% of the players don't. I don't regret a single minute I spent in it, and will enjoy the game until the very end.
Why would customers support a game that was delivered in the condition it was in? In order for that to happen there would have to be something for players to believe in, something they could believe would right the course of Vanguard if they chose to support it. The moment soe "partnered" with sigil the outcry from players was that this situation is exactly what would happen vanguard. Sadly, but not surprisingly, they were right.
It isn't like soe getting involved provided an infusion of confidence that players could associate with and thus support the game. In fact it made a sizable portion of potential players walk away from the game.
Originally posted by Silius on
http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?&topic_id=51939
"Hello once again everyone. As mentioned in my previous post here is a high level of what we are looking at releasing over the next year. We are trying to pull back on some of the more ambitious features due to resource limitations. All projects in the company have very busy schedules and are all doing the best we can with resources as we continue to support our games.
The Vanguard team has always tried to do more with what we have and it has not always panned out. This unfortunately has resulted in a long gap between releases of content and when finally released that content has had its problems. After reviewing this we have come up with a more focused plan of attack.
One obvious area of focus is bug fixing. We have once again scheduled focused bug fixing time to go along with our standard background bug bashing. We have also taken areas of interest and broken them down into smaller implementation pieces that are much easier to manage from the development and QA side.
Doing this will hopefully accomplish the following goals:
• More frequent content releases
• More time spent on focused testing rather than testing many things at once allowing some bugs slip through
• Focused content that starts and ends a chunk of storytelling
• Reinvigorating the community as new stuff is released more frequently showing that this old game still has some tricks.
Because of this reevaluation of how we utilize our resources there is the dreaded shelving of some of our more ambitious features. In an effort to be as transparent as possible I want to let it be known that the following features/content have been shelved indefinitely for now.
• Alternate Advancement
• Halls of Shattered Souls
• Stiirhaad Mountains
• Pankor Zhi
• Nexus
We are not happy that we have to put these things aside for now but as a team we must focus and as 2010 unfolds see if we can once again discuss how we would like to see the above mentioned items implemented.
With that out of the way let me discuss what we will be working on. Firstly some of you may have noticed that some of the items on the player wish list have been worked on. A few months back we took that list, identified things that would be possible with our current resources and then prioritized it. The logistics of some of them are a bit complicated but know that we are looking at getting many things ranging from housing related additions to UI tweaks implemented.
One big thing we are looking into currently and trying to execute early next year is a server merge. We recognize that the community is spread out and Telon is gigantic so bring many of you closer together makes sense from both sides of the coin. This is not a definite option as we have some technical issues that did not exist when we merged servers last time and as such we need to work out the details there.
As mentioned above bug bashing is still a priority for the year. While we want to continue to release new content we understand that new breeds more issues and these issues just compound the fact that some old issues still exist. This is part of the reason why we are toning down our releases. This gives us more time to tackle bugs while giving some content for everyone and breathing life into some areas of Telon that could really use it.
Lastly we are looking at releasing a chunk of content each month. These content drops will be chapters of a larger story told in various parts. Pantheon was supposed to play out this way, unfortunately Pantheon was not split up enough and we have since learned from the mistakes made there.
The upcoming content is small group - group focused with potential for some raid targets linked to it. The locations for this content will be areas that are under utilized or deserving of some form of revamp. As many of you have said Vanguard has some areas that have little to no content in them and need to be evaluated. The following list is a high level plan for the content next year. Please note there are no solid dates yet as we are still evaluating some things.
1. Server Merge (this would not include Halgar)
Note the server merge is only being considered at this time. This is not a definite by any stretch of the imagination. We have to weigh the requirement sot execute this and what it means for anything else we may have to work on in regards to Vanguard. I wanted to put this here so you knew we were looking into this and it would not come as a surprise if announced.
2. Anniversary
3. Shadow Hilsbury
4. Magi Hold – Chapters 1 - 3
5. Focused Bug Fixing pass part 1
6. Diplomacy Saga next 2 releases
7. Focused Bug Fixing pass part 2
8. Old Targonor – Chapters 1 - 5
The continued class evaluations are still being looked at as we have run into some problems and are trying to look into the best course of action. Once we have figured this out we will finish the rest.
I want to once again thank all of you for the support you have given this team. As Vanguard gets closer to another birthday I am happy that all of you have been here to see the game grow. Here’s to Vanguard, and to all of you may your holiday be merry and your new year bright."
Where exactly in this announcement is the doomsday?
Looks like they are deciding to do some bug cleaning that has been put off because the team has been getting too directed to new ideas.
How is starting the year planning to bug fix bad news?
Sure they say some things have to be put aside, and the crew isn't huge, but where is the doomsday?
Sounds to me like the modest crew is being put into work mode to take care of what I assume are important game issues needing attention in favor of more fun to program new ideas.
Maybe I missed something in the announcement?
I don't blame SoE. If a game like Vanguard struggle with less than 10.000 subscribers, the market preferences and customers are to blame. Why should SoE pump money into this when there's clearly no customers for it? I did try to promote Vanguard here, and on a few other boards for over two years. I love this game, but 99.999% of the players don't. I don't regret a single minute I spent in it, and will enjoy the game until the very end.
Why would customers support a game that was delivered in the condition it was in? In order for that to happen there would have to be something for players to believe in, something they could believe would right the course of Vanguard if they chose to support it. The moment soe "partnered" with sigil the outcry from players was that this situation is exactly what would happen vanguard. Sadly, but not surprisingly, they were right.
It isn't like soe getting involved provided an infusion of confidence that players could associate with and thus support the game. In fact it made a sizable portion of potential players walk away from the game.
And for good reason, since SoE habitually and unceasingly crap on their players. Their reputation for it is well known.
Because they used the bug fixing excuse since launch. For the first year we can all eat that. As it was sertainly needed.
But at this moment that excuse bird doesn't fly anymore. And seeing that they pretty much shelve everything people have been graving for. Is Doomsday. It means Silius is pretty much the only one left, with maybe an interim one or two. And just posponing the inevitable.