People are offended by gay sex because it is a distortion of what sex was made for. Whether you believe in evolution, christianity or whatever it doesn't matter. Neither lesbians or gays can seem to put it in the right hole and for good reason... it's not supposed to. If you are gay, congratulations. But just because people are gay doesn't mean the world needs to cater to gays in every aspect of life. Gays are a MINORITY and the majority of the population is disgusted by it and rightfully so.
Woah... You remind me on those people saying "God buried the dinosaur bones there to confuse us". Yeah.... T_T
I'm really not sure what to think about your post. On the one hand, I feel kinda pity and sorry for you, because... well your view on some things is so totally twisted and far off reality that it's like you'd claim "eyes? Eyes don't exist. Noone has eyes" and try to make up weird "proofs" that this is true. Or the people saying earth is flat, or that the earth is actually hollow and we live inside a hollow sphere instead of ontop of a globe.
On the other hand I'm somehow offended by the sheer amount if intolerance and... now my english knowledge lacks the vocabulary to express the digust I felt towards you when I read your post.
I mean first, the segretation of living beeings into "homosexual, bisexual and heterosexual" (and pansexual and whatelse there is) by itself is flawed. In truth, it's a smooth transition from one end to the other, and everywhere is somewhere on the scale. The fact that most people consider themselves to be one of the three (bi, homo or hetero) is the result of our society and what it made of us. It's not the result of nature or "god's will". In another society, there would not be such a segregation into those three categories. As said, everyone is somewhere on the scale, and noone is 100% bi, hetero or homo. However, society makes you think you are 100% of one of those. Which is clearly dumb, because it is limiting ourselves.
It's like saying "everything is red, green or blue. There are no other colors, and there is nothing inbetween". That's exactly the same thing. It is simplifying something which in the end results simply in an amputation of our beeings.
Also, the whole "gay is not how sex is meant to be" is also just plain wrong. In quite a lot of animal species are also animals having sex with animals of the same gender. It's according to scientists a universal phenomen. And if the existance of animals that have only sex with animals of the same sex would weaken the population, then simply by the theory of evolution would such a thing today not exist anymore, since populations with such animals would weaken and dwindle, where populations in which animals have only sex with animals of the opposite sex would get stronger.
Like, there are animals where "gay couples" steal eggs from other couples, and in the average the youngs they raise are stronger and reach a higher age than those raised by the couples of opposite genders. There are gay dolphins, wales, giraffes, penguins, birds, monkeys and whatnot. It's a part of nature. It's the way it is supposed to be. That some have sex one way and others another.
Sorry if maybe some sentences seem to be a bit rough or whatever, but english ain't my first language.
And the reason why some people are offended by gay sex is simply, that they are one or a combination of: intolerant, old-fashioned, brain-washed, religious fanatics or plain naive and dumb. Beeing offended by gay sex is something that was taught to you, something artificial. The same as you could raise a child in such a way that it eats one of it's fingers every half a dozen years, or that it wears it's shoes on it's head or considers fruits to be poisonous.
From an evolutional perspective it is a death sentance for a heterosexual species to be homosexual for obvious reasons so not only is it immoral, in many cultures, but it is also evolutionary wrong.
This is what happens when random pseudo scientifc arguments are used.
See, your argument is limited and wrong.
One of the bigger issues among human race and evolution is superpopulation and lack of food.
A healthy society need that a percentage of the population to be sterile somehow. It doesn't matters if part of the species are homosexual, recluse, celibate or just don't want to have kids. Especially today as we live in a superpopulated world.
See, a society where everyone procreate is as bad as a society where no one procreate.
So, from an evolutional perspective we need a porcentage of homossexuals.
Yamota your arguments related to evolution, history, art and entertainment are offensively wrong, please keep your arguments limited to what you have knowledge.
...
They are wrong because you say they are wrong? haha, please come up with proper counter arguments beside:
You are wrong.
And the idea that a population need people to be homosexual is laughable. The driving force of sexual reproduction is that each individual makes its best effort to reproduce and thus pass on their genes. Those that do not will die out so no homosexuality is "needed" for evolution to work. If population becomes too big to be sustained then there are other forces to keep them in check such as lack of food as you said.
If you are talking about humans then keep in mind that there are other ways of population control beside "needing" homosexuals. It is called birth control and is quite common in most areas of the world.
There is a huge difference between a digest milk gene error, and homosexual gene. Homosexual genes are dead end - Non-reproducible. They do not have babies, the gene-line mutation should be in extremly small ratio such as 1:10000 which is a level of other gene non-reproducible defects. Digest milk is a minor flaw and the gene can reproduce itself and further mutate.
Wow you focused on ONE thing I said and completely ignored the rest.
Tell me is fatal cancer a dead end? Can a dead person reproduce? And if he/she reproduces before she dies what happens then? Yes the child may get that same gene.
Excactly the same with homosexuality. Because a homosexual person can reproduce because they can have sex with the opposite sex but they choose not to do so because they are not attracted to them. But attraction is not a requirement for sexual reproduction. I know alot of people that has slept with others even though they were not attracted to them. And there have been many cases where homosexual people have had "normal" relationships on the side of their sexual relationsships, have kids and everything. So NO, it is not a dead end.
"Recent studies (1,2) have found that female relatives of male homosexuals do indeed produce more children (and the same is true of bisexual men)."
1. Camperio-Ciani, A., et al. (2004). Evidence for maternally-inherited factors favouring male homosexuality and promoting female fecundity. Proceedoings of the Royal Society of London, B 271, 2217-2224.
2. Camperio Ciani, A. (2009). Genetic factors increase fecundity in female maternal relatives of Bisexual men as in homosexuals. Sexual Medicine, 6, 449-455.
Quote from the survey:
"Mothers of gay men produced an average of 2.7 babies compared with 2.3 born to mothers of straight men. And maternal aunts of gay men had 2.0 babies compared with 1.5 born to the maternal aunts of straight men."
You can say it's against nature, I say nothing is against nature. Nature itself is the engine of all things around us in a world of physical and chemical causality
How excactly is this related to anything either I or you was discussing? You said homosexuality is a deadend because they cannot reproduce, I said it was not.
Now you are, with some random quoted text, trying to say that mothers of gay men are more fertile? What has that got to do with anything and what does that prove? Nothing.
From an evolutionary perspective homosexuality is not benefical and hence a defect (that the PARENTS of homosexuals get more babies is not a proof of homosexuality being good or bad). And when I say nature I mean in that context, not some kind of Einsteins unified field theory way (which has still not been proven btw).
And the idea that a population need people to be homosexual is laughable.
Please read the study to which I referred in post 401.
haha, how ironic. You yank my text out of context where I was responding to someone saying that a population needs homosexuality because they DONT reproduce (which they do) and then you quite it with a study showing that parents of homosexual reproduce MORE.
"Recent studies (1,2) have found that female relatives of male homosexuals do indeed produce more children (and the same is true of bisexual men)."
1. Camperio-Ciani, A., et al. (2004). Evidence for maternally-inherited factors favouring male homosexuality and promoting female fecundity. Proceedoings of the Royal Society of London, B 271, 2217-2224.
2. Camperio Ciani, A. (2009). Genetic factors increase fecundity in female maternal relatives of Bisexual men as in homosexuals. Sexual Medicine, 6, 449-455.
Quote from the survey: "Mothers of gay men produced an average of 2.7 babies compared with 2.3 born to mothers of straight men. And maternal aunts of gay men had 2.0 babies compared with 1.5 born to the maternal aunts of straight men." You can say it's against nature, I say nothing is against nature. Nature itself is the engine of all things around us in a world of physical and chemical causality
How excactly is this related to anything either I or you was discussing? You said homosexuality is a deadend because they cannot reproduce, I said it was not.
Now you are, with some random quoted text, trying to say that mothers of gay men are more fertile? What has that got to do with anything and what does that prove? Nothing.
From an evolutionary perspective homosexuality is not benefical and hence a defect. And when I say nature I mean in that context, not some kind of Einsteins unified field theory way (which has still not been proven btw).
I'm sorry, in what context did you mean the nature? Your view on things? Religious view?
Einstein did not invent causality nor physical and chemical determinism.
I did not bother to respond to your homosexual dead end argument, because I am not gonna speculate how many homosexuals are hiding in a marriage. In the end, Homosexuality is a non-reproducible gene mutation to a large extent and over time the gene should dwindle. Saying "the defected" homosexual gene is only spreading out by married homosexuals is absolutely ridiculous.
"Recent studies (1,2) have found that female relatives of male homosexuals do indeed produce more children (and the same is true of bisexual men)."
1. Camperio-Ciani, A., et al. (2004). Evidence for maternally-inherited factors favouring male homosexuality and promoting female fecundity. Proceedoings of the Royal Society of London, B 271, 2217-2224.
2. Camperio Ciani, A. (2009). Genetic factors increase fecundity in female maternal relatives of Bisexual men as in homosexuals. Sexual Medicine, 6, 449-455.
Quote from the survey: "Mothers of gay men produced an average of 2.7 babies compared with 2.3 born to mothers of straight men. And maternal aunts of gay men had 2.0 babies compared with 1.5 born to the maternal aunts of straight men." You can say it's against nature, I say nothing is against nature. Nature itself is the engine of all things around us in a world of physical and chemical causality
How excactly is this related to anything either I or you was discussing? You said homosexuality is a deadend because they cannot reproduce, I said it was not.
Now you are, with some random quoted text, trying to say that mothers of gay men are more fertile? What has that got to do with anything and what does that prove? Nothing.
From an evolutionary perspective homosexuality is not benefical and hence a defect. And when I say nature I mean in that context, not some kind of Einsteins unified field theory way (which has still not been proven btw).
I'm sorry, in what context did you mean the nature? Your view on things? Religious view?
Einstein did not invent causality nor physical and chemical determinism.
I did not bother to respond to your homosexual dead end argument, because I am not gonna speculate how many homosexuals are hiding in a marriage. In the end, Homosexuality is a non-reproducible gene mutation to a large extent and over time the gene should dwindle. Saying "the defected" homosexual gene is only spreading out by married homosexuals is absolutely ridiculous.
If it should "dwindle" then why doesnt the gene for so many other non beneficary genes dwindle? And the answer is simple, aslong as they can reproduce it will not dwindle. And homosexuals can reproduce. Period.
However it does not seem to be benefical (rather the opposite since obviously they will be less keen to reproduce), hence it is a defect.
And I have said, on several occasions, in what context I mean nature and it is from an evolutionary context.
If it should "dwindle" then why doesnt the gene for so many other non beneficary genes dwindle? And the answer is simple, aslong as they can reproduce it will not dwindle. And homosexuals can reproduce. Period. However it does not seem to give be benefical, hence it is a defect. And I have said, on several occasions, in what context I mean nature and it is from an evolutional context.
"Does not seem to be beneficial" You can't base the whole theory on this assumption can you. The study I referred to is clear and simple. Gay gene increase fertility in female relatives by around 30%. Additionally, we can also speculate about the role in the society. Noone knows whether genes look for combination to favor themselves or the whole "gene community". To base any sort of negativity / hatred / isolation on assumptions is "evil" according to your own religion.
Nothing is against nature in evolutionary context. Evolution by itself created everything including defects, deviations. There is a clear physical and chemical determinism and casuality in everything we can observe around us. It is either an intelligent design, a god, or just an endless chain of chemical reactions with no purpose at all.
Anyone who finds this offensive is mentally rubbed. Any reviewers bashing this concept has shit poor imagination and needs
to find something better to write about. It's a game, bioware do as they want and they're having fun while doing it. I'm not gay, but me and many others including my friends found the gay concept kinda funny... ( zevran lol ) Get a sense of humor.
If it should "dwindle" then why doesnt the gene for so many other non beneficary genes dwindle? And the answer is simple, aslong as they can reproduce it will not dwindle. And homosexuals can reproduce. Period. However it does not seem to give be benefical, hence it is a defect. And I have said, on several occasions, in what context I mean nature and it is from an evolutional context.
"Does not seem to be beneficial" You can't base the whole theory on this assumption can you. The study I referred to is clear and simple. Gay gene increase fertility in female relatives by around 30%. Additionally, we can also speculate about the role in the society. Noone knows whether genes look for combination to favor themselves or the whole "gene community". To base any sort of negativity / hatred / isolation on assumptions is "evil" according to your own religion.
Nothing is against nature in evolutionary context. Evolution by itself created everything including defects, deviations. There is a clear physical and chemical determinism and casuality in everything we can observe around us. It is either an intelligent design, a god, or just an endless chain of chemical reactions with no purpose at all.
That study in no way shows that the "gay gene" increases fertility, that is a conclusion YOU are making. What it shows is that the RELATIVES for a homosexual creates more offspring which is not neccessarily the same thing as that the gay gene makes them more reproductive.
For one thing the gay gene has not even been found yet and noone knows what other effects it has beside altering the sexual attraction of an individual.
What is clear is that you PC liberals are using scientific studies to try to push some kind of agenda that homosexuality is "right" or "good" where it is obvious for anyone with any common sense that the lack of sexual attraction for the other sex of a heterosexual species is clearly not benefical.
And evolution, if it has a purpose or not, is a process that produces a genetical production that is more suited to its environment so in that context there certainly are wrong and right combinations of genes. If it wasnt then the theory of darwin would be completely false, which it isnt. It is just incomplete, like many scientific theories. And the basis of that theory is that the individual that produce the more surviving offspring (observe surviving) is the individual that will be most succesful and will have its genes passed on, in an evolutional perspective.
Tell me, how will a homosexual offspring pass on those genes? The answer is simple, it cannot. Unless it is bisexual and homosexuality in itself has not proven to be a positive attribute in any form or sort.
Thats it... I'm all over this elf.. err.. I mean game. Its about time they have some truly gritty content in a game that isn't just gore. Nice work!
giantsquidRunes of Magic CorrespondentMemberPosts: 118
Originally posted by Oyjord
I have nothing against the game, I'm an adult, I'm not challenged by pixels.
However the writer(s?) on website which called it "dirty gay sex" should be condemned as a bigot and a homophobe. He/she didn't criticize the game for its "dirty straight sex," did they?
Sigh. To think we're living in thee 21st c.
I agree, but maybe to an extent it's what they wanted, and maybe Gay Pride can get some positive reactions from this.
It may not be in the light they want, but at least it's out in the open being talked about instead of disappearing into obscurity.
Sometimes when we ask "What were they thinking?", it may be because they knew this was a likely outcome, but they did it anyway because they felt the more important goal was to get the news heard instead of being lost in a news maelstrom.
I mean, because, really, everyone knows what everyone else will think and say, if you present Homosexual material to a gaming community.
"Let us make a special effort to stop communicating with each other, so we can have some conversation." Mark Twain
None of these matters. We are all decedents of one of seven women in Africa. Essentially we are all related, brothers and sisters in the great scheme of life. Fortunately we are not clones, we each have out preferences, interests, and outlook. Life is too short to be wasted in hatred, and anger.
"Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured." Mark Twain
Members of “The finger pointing society should remember, when you point one finger at something, four are pointing back to you. This thread is a prime example of the ignorance and hubris of the American, actually all people.” Don’t confuse me with the facts. My mind is made up.”
Exclusive Homosexuality, like Onanism was a determent of early man. Population was small and for the species to survive it needed to reproduce. Sexual practices that did not contribute to that goal were frowned on. Nonexclusive homosexuality was accepted until the advent of Monotheism and the God of Abraham. The three Religions worshiping that God were responsible for the excoriation of homosexuality. They are the dominant religious movements of this planet. That gives them power. Power to keep women in their place, barefooted and pregnant, stifle scientific development, and force society to conform to a ridged set of rules.
It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand. Mark Twain
There is little connection between Homosexuals and Pedophiles. The vast majority of Pedophiles are Heterosexuals. Cases of pedophilia in the Catholic Church as well as other Religions are more about power than sex. This is the same as Heterosexual Pastors using their position to seduce female member of their congregation.
Genetic and studies of the structure of the brain are reinforcing the theory Homosexuality is not a “choice’ but a part of a persons nature. There is no shame in being “Gay:” you didn’t choose it, your genes did. That being the fact condemnation of Homosexuals is as logical as the condemnation of Blondes with Blue eyes.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. Mark Twain
Games are not the cause of “Children gone wrong”, that responsibility is laid squarely on their parent’s shoulders. No one if holding a gun to parent’s head, and forcing them to allow their children to do anything. This game is “M” rated, that means Mature. People who can’t understand what the term “Mature” means, can be found on “The Jerry Springer Show”
The very fact that this issue is a controversy and given the number of posts showing it is an issue for many, proves quite soundly that modern human civilization is made of pure fail.
We may have great weapons and advanced technology, but there is nothing great or advanced about our closed and narrow minded state of thought.
Humanity needs to get out of the dark ages and grow up.
Not like you have to take part in that activity in the game. But if people don't agree with it or are offended by it that is their right. As far as I know there is nothing that says we have to like each other. We should tolerate each other but does not mean we have to like or accept each other. Everyone has their own values and things they will not tolerate. For me it is pretty simple no alcohol, drugs or tobacco allowed in my home and mess with my kids and I promise pain.
The very fact that this issue is a controversy and given the number of posts showing it is an issue for many, proves quite soundly that modern human civilization is made of pure fail. We may have great weapons and advanced technology, but there is nothing great or advanced about our closed and narrow minded state of thought. Humanity needs to get out of the dark ages and grow up.
I was going to post a lengthy message but you made my point exactly. There are many instances of Homosexuality in nature, female hyeenas have mock penises and use them. And for the bible thumpers out there..... Well when Jesus was asked what the most important comandment was he said Love each other as you love youeselves and your god. he didnt say a thing about hating anyone.
For all those ok with the homosexual scenes in the game would you still be ok if it had scenes of pedophilia? Both are examples of sexuality outside the "norm". I am just curious.
For all those ok with the homosexual scenes in the game would you still be ok if it had scenes of pedophilia, coprophilia. or necrophilia? All are examples of sexuality outside the "norm". I am just curious.
Lol Coprophillia, necrophillia and pedophilia are not even in the same realm of homosexually.
For all those ok with the homosexual scenes in the game would you still be ok if it had scenes of pedophilia, coprophilia. or necrophilia? All are examples of sexuality outside the "norm". I am just curious.
Lol Coprophillia, necrophillia and pedophilia are not even in the same realm of homosexually.
Seriously you need to grow up.
Alright maybe I went a bit far including coprophillia and necrophillia (which I will go back and edit out) but not so with pedophilia. In one someone is sexually attracted to the member of the same sex and the other someone is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. I was asking a serious question of how far are people ok with games going these days. Would people still be okay if the game had featured the same human male having sex with a 12 year olf elf girl? Or whatever.
The very fact that this issue is a controversy and given the number of posts showing it is an issue for many, proves quite soundly that modern human civilization is made of pure fail. We may have great weapons and advanced technology, but there is nothing great or advanced about our closed and narrow minded state of thought. Humanity needs to get out of the dark ages and grow up.
What is “Pure fail”? I presume you mean “Pure Evil” anyd you are wrong. People are neither “Good” nor “Evil” they are “Gullible”. That allows demagogues to drive public opinion in the direction beneficial to the demagogues. He vast percentage of the population is concerned with their own lives, do not have the time to study an issue, thus follow the loudest voice they hear, usually from the Pulpit. “You never ask questions when God’s on your side.” Religious hierarchy says their job is to “Tend the Sheep” explains a power relationship. Politicians are no different; they to understand voters can be manipulated by slogans, catch phrases, and fear.
This is not “The Dark Age”, nor unfortunately is it “The Renaissance”, or a period of “Enlightenment”. The “Age of Aquarius” has morphed into “The Age of Hucksters”.
“When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives.” Robert A. Heinlein
Alright maybe I went a bit far including coprophillia and necrophillia (which I will go back and edit out) but not so with pedophilia. In one someone is sexually attracted to the member of the same sex and the other someone is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. I was asking a serious question of how far are people ok with games going these days. Would people still be okay if the game had featured the same human male having sex with a 12 year olf elf girl? Or whatever.
Pedophilia is a rape. It is involunteer act that can psychologically hurt the child forever.
The very fact that this issue is a controversy and given the number of posts showing it is an issue for many, proves quite soundly that modern human civilization is made of pure fail. We may have great weapons and advanced technology, but there is nothing great or advanced about our closed and narrow minded state of thought. Humanity needs to get out of the dark ages and grow up.
What is “Pure fail”? I presume you mean “Pure Evil” anyd you are wrong. People are neither “Good” nor “Evil” they are “Gullible”. That allows demagogues to drive public opinion in the direction beneficial to the demagogues. He vast percentage of the population is concerned with their own lives, do not have the time to study an issue, thus follow the loudest voice they hear, usually from the Pulpit. “You never ask questions when God’s on your side.” Religious hierarchy says their job is to “Tend the Sheep” explains a power relationship. Politicians are no different; they to understand voters can be manipulated by slogans, catch phrases, and fear.
This is not “The Dark Age”, nor unfortunately is it “The Renaissance”, or a period of “Enlightenment”. The “Age of Aquarius” has morphed into “The Age of Hucksters”.
“When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives.” Robert A. Heinlein
Nice tangent...
Nope, I do not mean pure evil, that is fully your own interpretation. Try again, for I am enjoying your take on this, though you are not seeing what I meant, which is cool in this case, given I agree with your Robert A. Heinlein quote.
As far as your "People are Gullible" stance, I fully agree.
The very fact that this issue is a controversy and given the number of posts showing it is an issue for many, proves quite soundly that modern human civilization is made of pure fail. We may have great weapons and advanced technology, but there is nothing great or advanced about our closed and narrow minded state of thought. Humanity needs to get out of the dark ages and grow up.
What is “Pure fail”? I presume you mean “Pure Evil” anyd you are wrong. People are neither “Good” nor “Evil” they are “Gullible”. That allows demagogues to drive public opinion in the direction beneficial to the demagogues. He vast percentage of the population is concerned with their own lives, do not have the time to study an issue, thus follow the loudest voice they hear, usually from the Pulpit. “You never ask questions when God’s on your side.” Religious hierarchy says their job is to “Tend the Sheep” explains a power relationship. Politicians are no different; they to understand voters can be manipulated by slogans, catch phrases, and fear.
This is not “The Dark Age”, nor unfortunately is it “The Renaissance”, or a period of “Enlightenment”. The “Age of Aquarius” has morphed into “The Age of Hucksters”.
“When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives.” Robert A. Heinlein
Nice tangent...
Nope, I do not mean pure evil, that is fully your own interpretation. Try again, for I am enjoying your take on this, though you are not seeing what I meant, which is cool in this case, given I agree with your Robert A. Heinlein quote.
As far as your "People are Gullible" stance, I fully agree.
Thanks for the compliment, however I still don't understand what you went by the words "pure fail". Please explain.
Originally posted by greed0104 Originally posted by smut Originally posted by Angorim Originally posted by Khalathwyr More right wing fanatics trying to impose their morals on everyone else. What's new?
Apparently homosexuality is the root of all evil and is the most pressing concern to conservatives. Then again, global warming is a myth. (lol). Hahaha, there isn't even graphic sexual positions in this game like they claim. You kiss the person and lie down (with underwear and bra still on) and the scene ends! Apparently the writers have something against spooning.
Okay, i'm in a mellow mood and the moderators will probably not like it. Still, gotta do it.
I really am shocked at how big of a discussion this has become. Mass Effect which is also a Bioware game had the same debates with it when it launched. I personally never had a problem with it and I am probably not the only person that made a female character at some point and then made sure that it hooked up with another female. Even if in Mass Effect the female character was part of a species that was all only one gender, or at least I think thats how it was.
I just don't see the problem and the debate here. I am a straight male, and am fine with those that have alternative lifestyles, and met some very nice homosexual people that I could consider as friends. I am sure none of them would enjoy being counted in the same groups as pedofiles and worse that are being brought up in this topic. They are just normal people who are attracted to people in a way that cuts them off from procreating.
On another note if someone has an issue with homosexual scenes in a game then they should have made different choices while playing. At least in Mass Effect it took some effort to finally hook up with one of the other character, so it is all in the players hands. So if Dragon Age is anything like Mass Effect don't blame it if your character turns gay, it was you that made those choices for it.
Comments
Woah... You remind me on those people saying "God buried the dinosaur bones there to confuse us". Yeah.... T_T
I'm really not sure what to think about your post. On the one hand, I feel kinda pity and sorry for you, because... well your view on some things is so totally twisted and far off reality that it's like you'd claim "eyes? Eyes don't exist. Noone has eyes" and try to make up weird "proofs" that this is true. Or the people saying earth is flat, or that the earth is actually hollow and we live inside a hollow sphere instead of ontop of a globe.
On the other hand I'm somehow offended by the sheer amount if intolerance and... now my english knowledge lacks the vocabulary to express the digust I felt towards you when I read your post.
I mean first, the segretation of living beeings into "homosexual, bisexual and heterosexual" (and pansexual and whatelse there is) by itself is flawed. In truth, it's a smooth transition from one end to the other, and everywhere is somewhere on the scale. The fact that most people consider themselves to be one of the three (bi, homo or hetero) is the result of our society and what it made of us. It's not the result of nature or "god's will". In another society, there would not be such a segregation into those three categories. As said, everyone is somewhere on the scale, and noone is 100% bi, hetero or homo. However, society makes you think you are 100% of one of those. Which is clearly dumb, because it is limiting ourselves.
It's like saying "everything is red, green or blue. There are no other colors, and there is nothing inbetween". That's exactly the same thing. It is simplifying something which in the end results simply in an amputation of our beeings.
Also, the whole "gay is not how sex is meant to be" is also just plain wrong. In quite a lot of animal species are also animals having sex with animals of the same gender. It's according to scientists a universal phenomen. And if the existance of animals that have only sex with animals of the same sex would weaken the population, then simply by the theory of evolution would such a thing today not exist anymore, since populations with such animals would weaken and dwindle, where populations in which animals have only sex with animals of the opposite sex would get stronger.
Like, there are animals where "gay couples" steal eggs from other couples, and in the average the youngs they raise are stronger and reach a higher age than those raised by the couples of opposite genders. There are gay dolphins, wales, giraffes, penguins, birds, monkeys and whatnot. It's a part of nature. It's the way it is supposed to be. That some have sex one way and others another.
Sorry if maybe some sentences seem to be a bit rough or whatever, but english ain't my first language.
And the reason why some people are offended by gay sex is simply, that they are one or a combination of: intolerant, old-fashioned, brain-washed, religious fanatics or plain naive and dumb. Beeing offended by gay sex is something that was taught to you, something artificial. The same as you could raise a child in such a way that it eats one of it's fingers every half a dozen years, or that it wears it's shoes on it's head or considers fruits to be poisonous.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
This is what happens when random pseudo scientifc arguments are used.
See, your argument is limited and wrong.
One of the bigger issues among human race and evolution is superpopulation and lack of food.
A healthy society need that a percentage of the population to be sterile somehow. It doesn't matters if part of the species are homosexual, recluse, celibate or just don't want to have kids. Especially today as we live in a superpopulated world.
See, a society where everyone procreate is as bad as a society where no one procreate.
So, from an evolutional perspective we need a porcentage of homossexuals.
Yamota your arguments related to evolution, history, art and entertainment are offensively wrong, please keep your arguments limited to what you have knowledge.
...
They are wrong because you say they are wrong? haha, please come up with proper counter arguments beside:
You are wrong.
And the idea that a population need people to be homosexual is laughable. The driving force of sexual reproduction is that each individual makes its best effort to reproduce and thus pass on their genes. Those that do not will die out so no homosexuality is "needed" for evolution to work. If population becomes too big to be sustained then there are other forces to keep them in check such as lack of food as you said.
If you are talking about humans then keep in mind that there are other ways of population control beside "needing" homosexuals. It is called birth control and is quite common in most areas of the world.
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Please read the study to which I referred in post 401.
REALITY CHECK
There is a huge difference between a digest milk gene error, and homosexual gene. Homosexual genes are dead end - Non-reproducible. They do not have babies, the gene-line mutation should be in extremly small ratio such as 1:10000 which is a level of other gene non-reproducible defects. Digest milk is a minor flaw and the gene can reproduce itself and further mutate.
Wow you focused on ONE thing I said and completely ignored the rest.
Tell me is fatal cancer a dead end? Can a dead person reproduce? And if he/she reproduces before she dies what happens then? Yes the child may get that same gene.
Excactly the same with homosexuality. Because a homosexual person can reproduce because they can have sex with the opposite sex but they choose not to do so because they are not attracted to them. But attraction is not a requirement for sexual reproduction. I know alot of people that has slept with others even though they were not attracted to them. And there have been many cases where homosexual people have had "normal" relationships on the side of their sexual relationsships, have kids and everything. So NO, it is not a dead end.
"Recent studies (1,2) have found that female relatives of male homosexuals do indeed produce more children (and the same is true of bisexual men)."
1. Camperio-Ciani, A., et al. (2004). Evidence for maternally-inherited factors favouring male homosexuality and promoting female fecundity. Proceedoings of the Royal Society of London, B 271, 2217-2224.
2. Camperio Ciani, A. (2009). Genetic factors increase fecundity in female maternal relatives of Bisexual men as in homosexuals. Sexual Medicine, 6, 449-455.
Quote from the survey:
"Mothers of gay men produced an average of 2.7 babies compared with 2.3 born to mothers of straight men. And maternal aunts of gay men had 2.0 babies compared with 1.5 born to the maternal aunts of straight men."
You can say it's against nature, I say nothing is against nature. Nature itself is the engine of all things around us in a world of physical and chemical causality
How excactly is this related to anything either I or you was discussing? You said homosexuality is a deadend because they cannot reproduce, I said it was not.
Now you are, with some random quoted text, trying to say that mothers of gay men are more fertile? What has that got to do with anything and what does that prove? Nothing.
From an evolutionary perspective homosexuality is not benefical and hence a defect (that the PARENTS of homosexuals get more babies is not a proof of homosexuality being good or bad). And when I say nature I mean in that context, not some kind of Einsteins unified field theory way (which has still not been proven btw).
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Please read the study to which I referred in post 401.
haha, how ironic. You yank my text out of context where I was responding to someone saying that a population needs homosexuality because they DONT reproduce (which they do) and then you quite it with a study showing that parents of homosexual reproduce MORE.
You PC liberals bend anything to your advantage.
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How excactly is this related to anything either I or you was discussing? You said homosexuality is a deadend because they cannot reproduce, I said it was not.
Now you are, with some random quoted text, trying to say that mothers of gay men are more fertile? What has that got to do with anything and what does that prove? Nothing.
From an evolutionary perspective homosexuality is not benefical and hence a defect. And when I say nature I mean in that context, not some kind of Einsteins unified field theory way (which has still not been proven btw).
I'm sorry, in what context did you mean the nature? Your view on things? Religious view?
Einstein did not invent causality nor physical and chemical determinism.
I did not bother to respond to your homosexual dead end argument, because I am not gonna speculate how many homosexuals are hiding in a marriage. In the end, Homosexuality is a non-reproducible gene mutation to a large extent and over time the gene should dwindle. Saying "the defected" homosexual gene is only spreading out by married homosexuals is absolutely ridiculous.
REALITY CHECK
How excactly is this related to anything either I or you was discussing? You said homosexuality is a deadend because they cannot reproduce, I said it was not.
Now you are, with some random quoted text, trying to say that mothers of gay men are more fertile? What has that got to do with anything and what does that prove? Nothing.
From an evolutionary perspective homosexuality is not benefical and hence a defect. And when I say nature I mean in that context, not some kind of Einsteins unified field theory way (which has still not been proven btw).
I'm sorry, in what context did you mean the nature? Your view on things? Religious view?
Einstein did not invent causality nor physical and chemical determinism.
I did not bother to respond to your homosexual dead end argument, because I am not gonna speculate how many homosexuals are hiding in a marriage. In the end, Homosexuality is a non-reproducible gene mutation to a large extent and over time the gene should dwindle. Saying "the defected" homosexual gene is only spreading out by married homosexuals is absolutely ridiculous.
If it should "dwindle" then why doesnt the gene for so many other non beneficary genes dwindle? And the answer is simple, aslong as they can reproduce it will not dwindle. And homosexuals can reproduce. Period.
However it does not seem to be benefical (rather the opposite since obviously they will be less keen to reproduce), hence it is a defect.
And I have said, on several occasions, in what context I mean nature and it is from an evolutionary context.
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"Does not seem to be beneficial" You can't base the whole theory on this assumption can you. The study I referred to is clear and simple. Gay gene increase fertility in female relatives by around 30%. Additionally, we can also speculate about the role in the society. Noone knows whether genes look for combination to favor themselves or the whole "gene community". To base any sort of negativity / hatred / isolation on assumptions is "evil" according to your own religion.
Nothing is against nature in evolutionary context. Evolution by itself created everything including defects, deviations. There is a clear physical and chemical determinism and casuality in everything we can observe around us. It is either an intelligent design, a god, or just an endless chain of chemical reactions with no purpose at all.
REALITY CHECK
Anyone who finds this offensive is mentally rubbed. Any reviewers bashing this concept has shit poor imagination and needs
to find something better to write about. It's a game, bioware do as they want and they're having fun while doing it. I'm not gay, but me and many others including my friends found the gay concept kinda funny... ( zevran lol ) Get a sense of humor.
"Does not seem to be beneficial" You can't base the whole theory on this assumption can you. The study I referred to is clear and simple. Gay gene increase fertility in female relatives by around 30%. Additionally, we can also speculate about the role in the society. Noone knows whether genes look for combination to favor themselves or the whole "gene community". To base any sort of negativity / hatred / isolation on assumptions is "evil" according to your own religion.
Nothing is against nature in evolutionary context. Evolution by itself created everything including defects, deviations. There is a clear physical and chemical determinism and casuality in everything we can observe around us. It is either an intelligent design, a god, or just an endless chain of chemical reactions with no purpose at all.
That study in no way shows that the "gay gene" increases fertility, that is a conclusion YOU are making. What it shows is that the RELATIVES for a homosexual creates more offspring which is not neccessarily the same thing as that the gay gene makes them more reproductive.
For one thing the gay gene has not even been found yet and noone knows what other effects it has beside altering the sexual attraction of an individual.
What is clear is that you PC liberals are using scientific studies to try to push some kind of agenda that homosexuality is "right" or "good" where it is obvious for anyone with any common sense that the lack of sexual attraction for the other sex of a heterosexual species is clearly not benefical.
And evolution, if it has a purpose or not, is a process that produces a genetical production that is more suited to its environment so in that context there certainly are wrong and right combinations of genes. If it wasnt then the theory of darwin would be completely false, which it isnt. It is just incomplete, like many scientific theories. And the basis of that theory is that the individual that produce the more surviving offspring (observe surviving) is the individual that will be most succesful and will have its genes passed on, in an evolutional perspective.
Tell me, how will a homosexual offspring pass on those genes? The answer is simple, it cannot. Unless it is bisexual and homosexuality in itself has not proven to be a positive attribute in any form or sort.
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Thats it... I'm all over this elf.. err.. I mean game. Its about time they have some truly gritty content in a game that isn't just gore. Nice work!
I agree, but maybe to an extent it's what they wanted, and maybe Gay Pride can get some positive reactions from this.
It may not be in the light they want, but at least it's out in the open being talked about instead of disappearing into obscurity.
Sometimes when we ask "What were they thinking?", it may be because they knew this was a likely outcome, but they did it anyway because they felt the more important goal was to get the news heard instead of being lost in a news maelstrom.
I mean, because, really, everyone knows what everyone else will think and say, if you present Homosexual material to a gaming community.
Just One MMOre
"Let us make a special effort to stop communicating with each other, so we can have some conversation." Mark Twain
None of these matters. We are all decedents of one of seven women in Africa. Essentially we are all related, brothers and sisters in the great scheme of life. Fortunately we are not clones, we each have out preferences, interests, and outlook. Life is too short to be wasted in hatred, and anger.
"Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured." Mark Twain
Members of “The finger pointing society should remember, when you point one finger at something, four are pointing back to you. This thread is a prime example of the ignorance and hubris of the American, actually all people.” Don’t confuse me with the facts. My mind is made up.”
Exclusive Homosexuality, like Onanism was a determent of early man. Population was small and for the species to survive it needed to reproduce. Sexual practices that did not contribute to that goal were frowned on. Nonexclusive homosexuality was accepted until the advent of Monotheism and the God of Abraham. The three Religions worshiping that God were responsible for the excoriation of homosexuality. They are the dominant religious movements of this planet. That gives them power. Power to keep women in their place, barefooted and pregnant, stifle scientific development, and force society to conform to a ridged set of rules.
It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand. Mark Twain
There is little connection between Homosexuals and Pedophiles. The vast majority of Pedophiles are Heterosexuals. Cases of pedophilia in the Catholic Church as well as other Religions are more about power than sex. This is the same as Heterosexual Pastors using their position to seduce female member of their congregation.
Genetic and studies of the structure of the brain are reinforcing the theory Homosexuality is not a “choice’ but a part of a persons nature. There is no shame in being “Gay:” you didn’t choose it, your genes did. That being the fact condemnation of Homosexuals is as logical as the condemnation of Blondes with Blue eyes.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. Mark Twain
Games are not the cause of “Children gone wrong”, that responsibility is laid squarely on their parent’s shoulders. No one if holding a gun to parent’s head, and forcing them to allow their children to do anything. This game is “M” rated, that means Mature. People who can’t understand what the term “Mature” means, can be found on “The Jerry Springer Show”
The very fact that this issue is a controversy and given the number of posts showing it is an issue for many, proves quite soundly that modern human civilization is made of pure fail.
We may have great weapons and advanced technology, but there is nothing great or advanced about our closed and narrow minded state of thought.
Humanity needs to get out of the dark ages and grow up.
Not like you have to take part in that activity in the game. But if people don't agree with it or are offended by it that is their right. As far as I know there is nothing that says we have to like each other. We should tolerate each other but does not mean we have to like or accept each other. Everyone has their own values and things they will not tolerate. For me it is pretty simple no alcohol, drugs or tobacco allowed in my home and mess with my kids and I promise pain.
I was going to post a lengthy message but you made my point exactly. There are many instances of Homosexuality in nature, female hyeenas have mock penises and use them. And for the bible thumpers out there..... Well when Jesus was asked what the most important comandment was he said Love each other as you love youeselves and your god. he didnt say a thing about hating anyone.
For all those ok with the homosexual scenes in the game would you still be ok if it had scenes of pedophilia? Both are examples of sexuality outside the "norm". I am just curious.
Lol Coprophillia, necrophillia and pedophilia are not even in the same realm of homosexually.
Seriously you need to grow up.
Sooner or Later
Lol Coprophillia, necrophillia and pedophilia are not even in the same realm of homosexually.
Seriously you need to grow up.
Alright maybe I went a bit far including coprophillia and necrophillia (which I will go back and edit out) but not so with pedophilia. In one someone is sexually attracted to the member of the same sex and the other someone is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. I was asking a serious question of how far are people ok with games going these days. Would people still be okay if the game had featured the same human male having sex with a 12 year olf elf girl? Or whatever.
What is “Pure fail”? I presume you mean “Pure Evil” anyd you are wrong. People are neither “Good” nor “Evil” they are “Gullible”. That allows demagogues to drive public opinion in the direction beneficial to the demagogues. He vast percentage of the population is concerned with their own lives, do not have the time to study an issue, thus follow the loudest voice they hear, usually from the Pulpit. “You never ask questions when God’s on your side.” Religious hierarchy says their job is to “Tend the Sheep” explains a power relationship. Politicians are no different; they to understand voters can be manipulated by slogans, catch phrases, and fear.
This is not “The Dark Age”, nor unfortunately is it “The Renaissance”, or a period of “Enlightenment”. The “Age of Aquarius” has morphed into “The Age of Hucksters”.
“When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives.” Robert A. Heinlein
Pedophilia is a rape. It is involunteer act that can psychologically hurt the child forever.
REALITY CHECK
What is “Pure fail”? I presume you mean “Pure Evil” anyd you are wrong. People are neither “Good” nor “Evil” they are “Gullible”. That allows demagogues to drive public opinion in the direction beneficial to the demagogues. He vast percentage of the population is concerned with their own lives, do not have the time to study an issue, thus follow the loudest voice they hear, usually from the Pulpit. “You never ask questions when God’s on your side.” Religious hierarchy says their job is to “Tend the Sheep” explains a power relationship. Politicians are no different; they to understand voters can be manipulated by slogans, catch phrases, and fear.
This is not “The Dark Age”, nor unfortunately is it “The Renaissance”, or a period of “Enlightenment”. The “Age of Aquarius” has morphed into “The Age of Hucksters”.
“When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives.” Robert A. Heinlein
Nice tangent...
Nope, I do not mean pure evil, that is fully your own interpretation. Try again, for I am enjoying your take on this, though you are not seeing what I meant, which is cool in this case, given I agree with your Robert A. Heinlein quote.
As far as your "People are Gullible" stance, I fully agree.
What is “Pure fail”? I presume you mean “Pure Evil” anyd you are wrong. People are neither “Good” nor “Evil” they are “Gullible”. That allows demagogues to drive public opinion in the direction beneficial to the demagogues. He vast percentage of the population is concerned with their own lives, do not have the time to study an issue, thus follow the loudest voice they hear, usually from the Pulpit. “You never ask questions when God’s on your side.” Religious hierarchy says their job is to “Tend the Sheep” explains a power relationship. Politicians are no different; they to understand voters can be manipulated by slogans, catch phrases, and fear.
This is not “The Dark Age”, nor unfortunately is it “The Renaissance”, or a period of “Enlightenment”. The “Age of Aquarius” has morphed into “The Age of Hucksters”.
“When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives.” Robert A. Heinlein
Nice tangent...
Nope, I do not mean pure evil, that is fully your own interpretation. Try again, for I am enjoying your take on this, though you are not seeing what I meant, which is cool in this case, given I agree with your Robert A. Heinlein quote.
As far as your "People are Gullible" stance, I fully agree.
Thanks for the compliment, however I still don't understand what you went by the words "pure fail". Please explain.
Hahaha, there isn't even graphic sexual positions in this game like they claim. You kiss the person and lie down (with underwear and bra still on) and the scene ends!
Apparently the writers have something against spooning.
Okay, i'm in a mellow mood and the moderators will probably not like it. Still, gotta do it.
SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!
You can figure out for yourself where that came from.
Do I have to finish it with "Guard"? For happy kittens.
I really am shocked at how big of a discussion this has become. Mass Effect which is also a Bioware game had the same debates with it when it launched. I personally never had a problem with it and I am probably not the only person that made a female character at some point and then made sure that it hooked up with another female. Even if in Mass Effect the female character was part of a species that was all only one gender, or at least I think thats how it was.
I just don't see the problem and the debate here. I am a straight male, and am fine with those that have alternative lifestyles, and met some very nice homosexual people that I could consider as friends. I am sure none of them would enjoy being counted in the same groups as pedofiles and worse that are being brought up in this topic. They are just normal people who are attracted to people in a way that cuts them off from procreating.
On another note if someone has an issue with homosexual scenes in a game then they should have made different choices while playing. At least in Mass Effect it took some effort to finally hook up with one of the other character, so it is all in the players hands. So if Dragon Age is anything like Mass Effect don't blame it if your character turns gay, it was you that made those choices for it.