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should i buy an ssd

eddieg50eddieg50 Member UncommonPosts: 1,809

and what would it do for me would it help me with lag or hitching or load times ,  how about that "Killer card" that is suppose to reduce lag in mmo, any one know anything about that  

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Comments

  • dfandfan Member Posts: 362

    With mmos, ssd is great cause there's much activity on disk. Just make sure pick a good one, indilinx based and intel disks are the best. 

    The network cards give next to nothing additional performance, definitely better to put the cash on other parts.

     

  • TheHatterTheHatter Member Posts: 2,547

    SSD would help alot on a load times and maybe give you a slight increase in performance.

    A Super NIC is for Ultra Competative LAN parties.... like professional FPS players. It's not going to help you in an MMO, your 100mbos/1gbps Ethernet is not your bottleneck.

  • tvalentinetvalentine Member Posts: 4,216

    SSD should increase load times, as well as booting up your system. "Killer network cards" are a scam, i wouldnt buy one. Stick with SSD and make sure you get a good one.

    image

    Playing: EVE Online
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  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170

    The Killer NIC prioritizes network traffic for you, but if your internet connection isn't capped out from downloading there's nothing to prioritize so it doesn't help anything. It's better to just throttle your browser/torrent downstream to leave room for your games and set up QoS in your router to prioritize gaming traffic/deprioritize p2p (this'll help everyone on the network). Also you should set your bandwidth cap in your router at 90% of your real bandwidth so the cable modem doesn't get backed up and toss packets.


    If you have no load on your network none of the above makes any difference for your connection.


    For your SSD's you're looking at the Intel X-25E, X-25M G2/G1, and the Indilinx based OCZ Vertex, OCZ Agility, maybe the Patriot Torqx. Pretty sure the OCZ Vertex is the best buy. I'd get one if you can afford it they are pretty badass and you'll notice the difference right away, even the cheap slow ones still own at random read performance which is one of the most important aspects for daily desktop/gaming use, they just suck at writes, but writing to drive isn't a big aspect of desktop/gaming use.

  • dfandfan Member Posts: 362
    Originally posted by TheHatter


     maybe give you a slight increase in performance.


     

    Disagree with this, with modern mmos the difference is very noticeable.

     

  • lakokalakoka Member UncommonPosts: 97

    Raid 0

  • dfandfan Member Posts: 362
    Originally posted by lakoka


    Raid 0

    You can notice the difference of good ssds in raid compared to single only in synthetic benchmarks. Getting more than one for normal is pretty pointless imo, also you might lose some important functions like TRIM when doing so.

     

  • caalemcaalem Member Posts: 212

    those $100 "gaming" networking cards are actually just $100 paperweights, my friend got one for free out of a contest and it did absolutely nothing for either of us. It just had a lot of networking settings disabled/enabled that you should already have done for optimal ping time.

  • GetViolatedGetViolated Member Posts: 335
    Originally posted by caalem


    those $100 "gaming" networking cards are actually just $100 paperweights, my friend got one for free out of a contest and it did absolutely nothing for either of us. It just had a lot of networking settings disabled/enabled that you should already have done for optimal ping time.

    can you tell me what these settings are or give me a link? 

  • treysmoothtreysmooth Member UncommonPosts: 648
    Originally posted by eddieg50


    and what would it do for me would it help me with lag or hitching or load times ,  how about that "Killer card" that is suppose to reduce lag in mmo, any one know anything about that  

     

    NIC card is for FPS's, it won't help in the least in mmo's and in FPS's its iffy how much improvement you will see.  The SSD's are WAY over priced and for me not worth it but there is another choice.  If you look around some people(myself included have started running systems with 8 to 12 gbs of memory, then if you have a phenom II quad core just set the memory to unganged and it will assign a direct path between each chip and the core that it is connected to.  What happens is each core has its own 2 gbs of memory to use for the game its running on the core.  

    Whats interesting is after doing this I tested my system with 8 gbs of ddr2 1066 memory and a phenom II quad core 3 ghz against the machine I was building for a customer for his top end gaming(I7 12 gbs ddr 3 tri channel 295 gtx raptor etc).  He was using a raptor for his games(granted not ssd but faster) and I have a separate seagate 750 gb with 32 mb's of cache and basically when I first load into the mmo I might notice a second or two fo loading but after that it just seems to load smoothly from the HD cache to the dedicated 2 gb memory chip that is connected directly to the core the game is running on.  I tested various mmo's on his 3500 dollar intel gaming rig vs my 2000 dollar amd build and guess what?  My system was putting up the same performance in games as far as load times as the games where for the most part running resident in the memory chip.  This is with windows 7 fyi.

    My suggestion is double your memory and ungang your memory chips if you have a phenom II and enjoy the great performance that comes on the cheap.

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,246

    Getting multiple platter based HDDs and putting them in RAID 0 is more effective then getting an equally priced SSD.  You won't get much of a performance increase with either as software developers aren't morons.  The transfer rate of data off an HDD is always slow so most apps are designed to pre-load into memory.  The only thing you will do is speed up boot and load times, or if you run a server you will get a benefit.

    Also the point of a Discrete Network Controller is to give you options.  You will always have data transmission errors and lack of priority using the standard realtek gigabyte Lan.  With a Network controller you can hook up to multiple networks, create securities, and create network priority.

  • eddieg50eddieg50 Member UncommonPosts: 1,809
    Originally posted by treysmooth

    Originally posted by eddieg50


    and what would it do for me would it help me with lag or hitching or load times ,  how about that "Killer card" that is suppose to reduce lag in mmo, any one know anything about that  

     

    NIC card is for FPS's, it won't help in the least in mmo's and in FPS's its iffy how much improvement you will see.  The SSD's are WAY over priced and for me not worth it but there is another choice.  If you look around some people(myself included have started running systems with 8 to 12 gbs of memory, then if you have a phenom II quad core just set the memory to unganged and it will assign a direct path between each chip and the core that it is connected to.  What happens is each core has its own 2 gbs of memory to use for the game its running on the core.  

    Whats interesting is after doing this I tested my system with 8 gbs of ddr2 1066 memory and a phenom II quad core 3 ghz against the machine I was building for a customer for his top end gaming(I7 12 gbs ddr 3 tri channel 295 gtx raptor etc).  He was using a raptor for his games(granted not ssd but faster) and I have a separate seagate 750 gb with 32 mb's of cache and basically when I first load into the mmo I might notice a second or two fo loading but after that it just seems to load smoothly from the HD cache to the dedicated 2 gb memory chip that is connected directly to the core the game is running on.  I tested various mmo's on his 3500 dollar intel gaming rig vs my 2000 dollar amd build and guess what?  My system was putting up the same performance in games as far as load times as the games where for the most part running resident in the memory chip.  This is with windows 7 fyi.

    My suggestion is double your memory and ungang your memory chips if you have a phenom II and enjoy the great performance that comes on the cheap.

       cant do that because I am running windows xp 32 bit , but what if i switch my ddr2-800 to ddr3-1200

  • TheHatterTheHatter Member Posts: 2,547
    Originally posted by eddieg50



       cant do that because I am running windows xp 32 bit , but what if i switch my ddr2-800 to ddr3-1200

     

    Then you'll probably have to buy a new motherboard and a new processor. That's like trying to fit a sega genesis cartridge in a super nintendo. They don't fit.

  • treysmoothtreysmooth Member UncommonPosts: 648
    Originally posted by eddieg50

    Originally posted by treysmooth

    Originally posted by eddieg50


    and what would it do for me would it help me with lag or hitching or load times ,  how about that "Killer card" that is suppose to reduce lag in mmo, any one know anything about that  

     

    NIC card is for FPS's, it won't help in the least in mmo's and in FPS's its iffy how much improvement you will see.  The SSD's are WAY over priced and for me not worth it but there is another choice.  If you look around some people(myself included have started running systems with 8 to 12 gbs of memory, then if you have a phenom II quad core just set the memory to unganged and it will assign a direct path between each chip and the core that it is connected to.  What happens is each core has its own 2 gbs of memory to use for the game its running on the core.  

    Whats interesting is after doing this I tested my system with 8 gbs of ddr2 1066 memory and a phenom II quad core 3 ghz against the machine I was building for a customer for his top end gaming(I7 12 gbs ddr 3 tri channel 295 gtx raptor etc).  He was using a raptor for his games(granted not ssd but faster) and I have a separate seagate 750 gb with 32 mb's of cache and basically when I first load into the mmo I might notice a second or two fo loading but after that it just seems to load smoothly from the HD cache to the dedicated 2 gb memory chip that is connected directly to the core the game is running on.  I tested various mmo's on his 3500 dollar intel gaming rig vs my 2000 dollar amd build and guess what?  My system was putting up the same performance in games as far as load times as the games where for the most part running resident in the memory chip.  This is with windows 7 fyi.

    My suggestion is double your memory and ungang your memory chips if you have a phenom II and enjoy the great performance that comes on the cheap.

       cant do that because I am running windows xp 32 bit , but what if i switch my ddr2-800 to ddr3-1200

     

    Upgrade to WIndows 7 and get the memory upgrade in total amount.  Trust me going from xp to windows 7 if you have the horse power does yield benefits.  I had xp on both my systems and a dual boot setup with vista before this and didn't think much of vista til service pack 2.  I bought windows 7 and added 4 gigs of memory and my god the improvements in most all games is amazing.  Its the fact that if you have memory to burn so to speak it will load the areas your in resident on the chip that is assigned to the core that is running the game.  I ran a similar setup with xp and the performance wasnt' bad with 3.25 gbs showing but was nothing compared to the performance I get with 8 gbs and the unganged setting.  Part of that is of course the 64 bit architecture however.

  • GetViolatedGetViolated Member Posts: 335
    Originally posted by Cleffy


    Getting multiple platter based HDDs and putting them in RAID 0 is more effective then getting an equally priced SSD.  You won't get much of a performance increase with either as software developers aren't morons.  The transfer rate of data off an HDD is always slow so most apps are designed to pre-load into memory.  The only thing you will do is speed up boot and load times, or if you run a server you will get a benefit.
    Also the point of a Discrete Network Controller is to give you options.  You will always have data transmission errors and lack of priority using the standard realtek gigabyte Lan.  With a Network controller you can hook up to multiple networks, create securities, and create network priority.

    you can't preload all programs into memory

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,246

    Most programs load their full data into memory when opened.  The exception are ones too large for this in which case most of those are seperated into partitions.

  • treysmoothtreysmooth Member UncommonPosts: 648
    Originally posted by GetViolated

    Originally posted by Cleffy


    Getting multiple platter based HDDs and putting them in RAID 0 is more effective then getting an equally priced SSD.  You won't get much of a performance increase with either as software developers aren't morons.  The transfer rate of data off an HDD is always slow so most apps are designed to pre-load into memory.  The only thing you will do is speed up boot and load times, or if you run a server you will get a benefit.
    Also the point of a Discrete Network Controller is to give you options.  You will always have data transmission errors and lack of priority using the standard realtek gigabyte Lan.  With a Network controller you can hook up to multiple networks, create securities, and create network priority.

    you can't preload all programs into memory

     

    The point isn't to load ALL of the game to memory its to load the areas your in completely into memory instead of into a virtual memory file on your hdd.  Even with this yes like i said when you first load into a area you have a second or so of loading from the hd's 32 mbs of cache but its MUCH less load time than any other setup i've every tried and that includes raid 0.  The more data that can remain resident in your memory the better.

  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170


    Originally posted by Cleffy
    Getting multiple platter based HDDs and putting them in RAID 0 is more effective then getting an equally priced SSD.  You won't get much of a performance increase with either as software developers aren't morons.  The transfer rate of data off an HDD is always slow so most apps are designed to pre-load into memory.  The only thing you will do is speed up boot and load times, or if you run a server you will get a benefit.
    Also the point of a Discrete Network Controller is to give you options.  You will always have data transmission errors and lack of priority using the standard realtek gigabyte Lan.  With a Network controller you can hook up to multiple networks, create securities, and create network priority.

    Hmm I disagree on the RAID 0.. no matter how much you build up a platter based HDD RAID you will always be limited by the access time based on platter rotation speed which is the limiting factor in drives now. You get increased throughput but your latency never improves so performance just can't match the SSD's for desktop/gaming tasks which normally require a lot of randeom reads. If you look at SSD's not only do you get quicker load times but you get better minimum frame rates (though avg frame rates remain near the same) because access time is instant, even if RAID's can win on many synthetic tests at the same price point.


    It's hard to find benches to show this because everything is synthetic, but if you go back and look at Anandtech's old RAID reviews you can see real world apps load and operate basically the same on RAID or Single, so I'd assume Anand's more recent real world tests would be about the same if RAID were included in the SSD vs VelicoRaptor comparisons. Synthetic benchmarks and server/database usage are clearly different but for regular use SSD's just react far quicker than RAID can.


    Also about preloading stuff into memory, yes apps load into RAM and then HD speed doesn't really matter, but the part we're talking about is getting them into RAM to begin with, and games can't preload all their data regardless.

  • dfandfan Member Posts: 362
    Originally posted by treysmooth

    Originally posted by eddieg50


    and what would it do for me would it help me with lag or hitching or load times ,  how about that "Killer card" that is suppose to reduce lag in mmo, any one know anything about that  

     

    NIC card is for FPS's, it won't help in the least in mmo's and in FPS's its iffy how much improvement you will see.  The SSD's are WAY over priced and for me not worth it but there is another choice.  If you look around some people(myself included have started running systems with 8 to 12 gbs of memory, then if you have a phenom II quad core just set the memory to unganged and it will assign a direct path between each chip and the core that it is connected to.  What happens is each core has its own 2 gbs of memory to use for the game its running on the core.  

    Whats interesting is after doing this I tested my system with 8 gbs of ddr2 1066 memory and a phenom II quad core 3 ghz against the machine I was building for a customer for his top end gaming(I7 12 gbs ddr 3 tri channel 295 gtx raptor etc).  He was using a raptor for his games(granted not ssd but faster) and I have a separate seagate 750 gb with 32 mb's of cache and basically when I first load into the mmo I might notice a second or two fo loading but after that it just seems to load smoothly from the HD cache to the dedicated 2 gb memory chip that is connected directly to the core the game is running on.  I tested various mmo's on his 3500 dollar intel gaming rig vs my 2000 dollar amd build and guess what?  My system was putting up the same performance in games as far as load times as the games where for the most part running resident in the memory chip.  This is with windows 7 fyi.

    My suggestion is double your memory and ungang your memory chips if you have a phenom II and enjoy the great performance that comes on the cheap.

    Most games are 32 bit, the extra system memory makes no change.

     

    Also, raptor is very far from good ssd speed, hdds always have seek times when ssd practically has none. Random operations are much faster with ssd too.

     

  • treysmoothtreysmooth Member UncommonPosts: 648

    I find from my experience going to a 64 bit OS seemed to help things along nicely in MMO's.  The load times I experience now are next to nil and thats good by me.  SSD for those that can afford it is great but there are other ways to get great performance out of todays mmo's that don't require them.  I didn't mention the 64 bit OS for any other reason that it allows you to have greater amounts of total memory therefore greater amounts given to each core  that is running apps.  The point is  that going to the virtual memory on the HDD is always slower than your memory speeds and your memory in a unganged setup is connected much closer to the core than the HDD bus.  

  • dfandfan Member Posts: 362
    Originally posted by treysmooth


    I find from my experience going to a 64 bit OS seemed to help things along nicely in MMO's.  The load times I experience now are next to nil and thats good by me.  SSD for those that can afford it is great but there are other ways to get great performance out of todays mmo's that don't require them.  I didn't mention the 64 bit OS for any other reason that it allows you to have greater amounts of total memory therefore greater amounts given to each core  that is running apps.  The point is  that going to the virtual memory on the HDD is always slower than your memory speeds and your memory in a unganged setup is connected much closer to the core than the HDD bus.  

    Ideally between 64 and 32 bit systems there is no difference. 32 bit windows can allocate 4 gigs total, which is more than enough for any game out there.

     

    MMOs tend to load much textures to memory while moving around with your character in the game world, this is the precise moment where ssd has huge impact on performance and enormously reduces this "stuttering".

     

  • TheHatterTheHatter Member Posts: 2,547
    Originally posted by dfan

     

    Ideally between 64 and 32 bit systems there is no difference. 32 bit windows can allocate 4 gigs total, which is more than enough for any game out there.

     

    MMOs tend to load much textures to memory while moving around with your character in the game world, this is the precise moment where ssd has huge impact on performance and enormously reduces this "stuttering".

     

     

    Man............ you're clueless.

    I'm not going to go into a long post about what you're wrong about, because I would have to use every post you've made in this thread and that's way too much writing for something that's simply not worth it.

    But let me say this, there is something in everyone of your posts in this thread that go against everything I know about computers.... which is kinda bad. It says either I really don't know anything about computers, despite being on my next to last semester of my Computer Science core.... or you're completely clueless. I admit, that I don't know a whole ton about current hardware models of brands.... but this thread isn't really about that.

  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,179

    I brought an Intel X25-M 80GB 34NM Postville 2.5IN SSD (GEN 2) on "Cyber Monday" for only $185 CAD in a special deal I got (Was selling for just over $200 on that deal day). Picking it up tomorrow from UPS store will be interesting to see some results, I will be glad to share them when I get it installed and some testing done.

    I would steer clear of the Killer card - just not worth it in my opinion.



  • TechleoTechleo Member Posts: 1,984

      I've had some good success disabling parts of larger drives to increase read speeds on some HD at work. Take a 750gb drive and transform it into a 75gb high speed drive. For the cost its a lot cheaper then getting a SSD. Then again the lack of moving parts in a ssd are quite attactive. 

      Ill get a SSD in a few years when there prices are down to what normal rotational model drives are. It wont be long.

  • dfandfan Member Posts: 362
    Originally posted by TheHatter

    Originally posted by dfan

     

    Ideally between 64 and 32 bit systems there is no difference. 32 bit windows can allocate 4 gigs total, which is more than enough for any game out there.

     

    MMOs tend to load much textures to memory while moving around with your character in the game world, this is the precise moment where ssd has huge impact on performance and enormously reduces this "stuttering".

     

     

    Man............ you're clueless.

    I'm not going to go into a long post about what you're wrong about, because I would have to use every post you've made in this thread and that's way too much writing for something that's simply not worth it.

    But let me say this, there is something in everyone of your posts in this thread that go against everything I know about computers.... which is kinda bad. It says either I really don't know anything about computers, despite being on my next to last semester of my Computer Science core.... or you're completely clueless. I admit, that I don't know a whole ton about current hardware models of brands.... but this thread isn't really about that.

    Like? At least try to speak out what you mean instead of just whining, I don't speak about things unless I'm sure about it.

     

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