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Stealth: An idea.
loirnoir
Member Posts: 170
On the thread I created a while back, there were quite a few people who complained about the "Invisibility" version of stealth. While I agree that it is illogical, i can see how a developer would consider that the best way to implement it, considering that we view our character in third person. In real life, you wouldn't be able to see behind your character, nor would you have perfect periphial vision, so making the character invisible is the only way (for now) that stealth could be feasibly implemented.
What I suggest though, to make it more realistic, is to have the visibility of the "Stealther" affected by the Line of Sight of other players.
For 120 degrees in front of the player, he will be able to see all characters, stealthed or not.
For 60 degrees on both sides of the player, he will be able to see everything, but stealthers would appear camoflauged.
For the 120 degrees behind the player, the stealther would be invisibile.
Unless the character (the one being attacked) turns around, the stealther remains invisible.
Now here is where things get interesting.
Since we have a habit of being intrigued by what other people are looking at, whenever a person looks at something, there is a higher chance that another person will also look at it.
If player A has the stealther in his line of sight, and player B has player A in his line of sight, Player B's LoS grows by lets say... 15 degrees.
Well... It may be hard to follow... but this is my idea for stealth.
Comments
Let's say it's 50 vs 50
And there is some1 stealthing behind enemy lines to kill some clothies, he can't LOS 50 people, so where is the point in stealthing here? Atleast 1 person is going to see him and attack him and get him out of stealth/kill him.
nom nom nom
Let's say it's 50 vs 50
And there is someone stealthing behind enemy lines to kill some clothies, how can he not expect to not get seen by at least ONE person?
Stealth was never really such a big bad thing as so many people on this site puts it.
Let's say it's 50 vs 50
And there is someone stealthing behind enemy lines to kill some clothies, how can he not expect to not get seen by at least ONE person?
But if Stealthy is the main focus of the classes' defining Archtype, that seprates them from the Berzerker Warrior, then basically they would become useless. Wouldnt you agree?
Let's say it's 50 vs 50
And there is someone stealthing behind enemy lines to kill some clothies, how can he not expect to not get seen by at least ONE person?
But if Stealthy is the main focus of the classes' defining Archtype, that seprates them from the Berzerker Warrior, then basically they would become useless. Wouldnt you agree?
No. It would just force the players to fit their archtype even more.
Current "Rogues" are basically Berzerker Warriors, for the current version of stealth allows them to just charge and attack.
Back to the 50vs50 scenario.
No, the rogues would not be able to just walk along the sidelines and attack the clothies, but they could go a bit further out of the way, use the landscapes as cover, and end up within range to attack the clothies.
The issue is that people forget that stealth takes patience, they just want a class that pew pews through everything.
Interesting game mechanic, OP. Could work.
Honestly I've never been very bothered by stealh even though I've never gotten into a character that uses it. If someone makes the argument that it's not implemented in a realistic way, I must point them to various classes who shoot fireballs of their fingers... Most MMOs aren't exactly realistic. Turning invisible doesn't seem so out of place. But, I'm all for doing away with floating character/guild names overhead... would be more fun if you could actually hide in the traditional way, like getting behind a tree without your 4 word guild name sticking out.
See, my idea of stealth kind of calls for what you want. There would be the need to actually use the landscape, but the class would also retain some of it's strength and feasibility on the battlefield.
As for the "Fireball" argument, we kind of have to look to the lore of the game. If a world considers rogues just an average person who does not use magic, then still invisibility as a means of stealth is illogical. If the world considered rogues masters of "Shadow magic" then I could see how it would be acceptable.
See, my idea of stealth kind of calls for what you want. There would be the need to actually use the landscape, but the class would also retain some of it's strength and feasibility on the battlefield.
As for the "Fireball" argument, we kind of have to look to the lore of the game. If a world considers rogues just an average person who does not use magic, then still invisibility as a means of stealth is illogical. If the world considered rogues masters of "Shadow magic" then I could see how it would be acceptable.
Where would a Rogue in WoW fit into this? Lore wise, they dont use Magic. But Illusions. (which I just call Magic Stealth in MMO terms)
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=36554
[Shadowstep10 Energy 25 yd range
Instant 30 sec cooldown
Attempts to step through the shadows and reappear behind your enemy and increases movement speed by 70% for 3 sec. The damage of your next ability is increased by 20% and the threat caused is reduced by 50%. Lasts 10 sec.
]
Rather than toying with angles, distances seems a more 'realistic' as well as implementable idea. Can't see him if he's 20yd+ out. Can make out an outline if he's 10-20yd. Can see a semi-opaque model 0-10yd.
Everyone seemingly wants to make things more 'realistic'. I don't understand why, considering half of the mechanics or baddies in the games we play are anything but. It's fine to be able to provide a tangible example to support an idea, but simply because something is tangible doesn't mean the idea it's supporting is necessarily a great one.
Regardless, in a ghillie suit I could sneak up to 95% of the population without them knowing in the slightest I was there. Put that same tool in the hands of a trained SF/Recon operative, and you'd get your last 5%. There's a tangible example supporting stealth = invis.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
??
So what the point of a Stealthy class archtype, if the system is based on distances?
See, my idea of stealth kind of calls for what you want. There would be the need to actually use the landscape, but the class would also retain some of it's strength and feasibility on the battlefield.
As for the "Fireball" argument, we kind of have to look to the lore of the game. If a world considers rogues just an average person who does not use magic, then still invisibility as a means of stealth is illogical. If the world considered rogues masters of "Shadow magic" then I could see how it would be acceptable.
Where would a Rogue in WoW fit into this? Lore wise, they dont use Magic. But Illusions. (which I just call Magic Stealth in MMO terms)
"The rogues of Azeroth are the masters of subterfuge, skilled and cunning adversaries of those who dare not look into the shadows to see what lurks there. Roguery is a profession for those who seek the adventures of stalking and silent forests, dimly lit halls and heavily guarded strongholds. Using trickery in combat and able to vanish at the slightest distraction, the rogue is a welcome addition to any group of adventurers. Ideal spies, deadly to those they can catch unaware, rogues have no problem finding a place in the world. Deadly masters of stealth, rogues are the whispers in shadowy corners and the hooded figures crossing dark fields. Skilled with daggers and the art of silent death, these vagabonds and bandits skulk about Azeroth seeking targets and profit. A member of almost any race can learn the tricks necessary to become a skilled rogue." -WoWwiki
So... not exactly magic.
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=36554
[Shadowstep10 Energy 25 yd range
Instant 30 sec cooldown
Attempts to step through the shadows and reappear behind your enemy and increases movement speed by 70% for 3 sec. The damage of your next ability is increased by 20% and the threat caused is reduced by 50%. Lasts 10 sec.
]
To step through the shadows does not imply any sort of non-physical action. I could easily step into the shadow of a tree, then reappear on the other side of it.
That system is no fun, WoW does it the best and it's how I would like it in every mmorpg with that style combat.
??
So what the point of a Stealthy class archtype, if the system is based on distances?
Because it's the underlying root of the mechanic? To bridge a distance or to create one, that, if otherwise seen, wouldn't be possible.
Risk and reward. Push and pull. You can't see a dude who is far away, you can discern someone at moderate range but only if you're looking at that exact spot, and you can make out someone who is about to stab you in the guts.
Make the stealth so powerful they can walk right up to you without you being able to see them, and there's no more 'dance'. Make stealth so terrible that even a mile away you can be seen, and you might as well remove the mechanic. Ideally, I should see them just outside of their striking range, so that his element of surprise and my reaction time match, and our 'blades clash'.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter