engineering falls within science. science doesnt deal with whys at all.
im an engineer, and we deal with the "why" all the time. its called trial and error. when things go wrong, the how isn't enough; you must understand something's conclusion for failure in order to correct its anticedents. if youve met an engineer who only dealt with the "how," he must go to a really crappy university, sorry.
and i think this exercise is extremely useful. we used to do it in my engineering design class for clients all the time to find out what they really wanted out of products as opposed to what they said they wanted. so for anyone who says this exercise is futile, let it be.
edit: i play mmos to distract myself from my engineering work =P i play for immersion.
Whatever you say, science does not deal with questions like: why was the universe created or what is the goal of the numerous species. Science deals with why nucleons act the way they do, but not with why they exist. Here is where God enters.
To the OP. I guess a lot of your questions can be answered by instant gratification; drops and other goodies from quests along with a story line which scratches your ego by telling you what an exceptional hero you are. Thus we MMO gamers are easy to fool, for why is it such a joy to be an outstanding hero, when the same is said to everybody and his oncle?
The answer to the OP's question is not that hard to find.
Just look at the success of Diablo 1 & 2.
People like to kill stuff and feel powerful. That is it. Violence is in our genes. Wanting to overpower the opponent is in our genes. MMOs give those to us in spades.
People will play an mmorpg or oRpg over a single player rpg simply because even if they solo in an mmo...the opportunity NEEDs to be there to compare your armor/weapons/items to someone else. Whether you have friends or compete with enemies...sadly mmo players NEED to be able to "Show off" what they've done to someone else (who, in almost all cases, doesn't care).
Its not so much just to "show off" as you put. Humans define themselves via interactions and comparisons with other human beings. To compare gear/achievements (not just to show how uber you are-though there are some with a hyper-competitive nature that do) gives a sense of existence to that character and through it, the player. To the player, it makes his achievements, his time mean something.
engineering falls within science. science doesnt deal with whys at all.
im an engineer, and we deal with the "why" all the time. its called trial and error. when things go wrong, the how isn't enough; you must understand something's conclusion for failure in order to correct its anticedents. if youve met an engineer who only dealt with the "how," he must go to a really crappy university, sorry.
and i think this exercise is extremely useful. we used to do it in my engineering design class for clients all the time to find out what they really wanted out of products as opposed to what they said they wanted. so for anyone who says this exercise is futile, let it be.
edit: i play mmos to distract myself from my engineering work =P i play for immersion.
Whatever you say, science does not deal with questions like: why was the universe created or what is the goal of the numerous species. Science deals with why nucleons act the way they do, but not with why they exist. Here is where God enters.
To the OP. I guess a lot of your questions can be answered by instant gratification; drops and other goodies from quests along with a story line which scratches your ego by telling you what an exceptional hero you are. Thus we MMO gamers are easy to fool, for why is it such a joy to be an outstanding hero, when the same is said to everybody and his oncle?
The major thing about MMOs is that you play alongside others, whether you prefer solo, grouping, PvP or whatever. Not necessarily to show off, but to socialize while playing, through interaction or through dialogue. The big MMOs are vibrant communities set in a different world than everyday life. I think it's fun to see how other players choose to develop their character and play alongside them when I feel like it and solo when that suits me best. MMOs at best are a diversion from RL at worst an addiction in replacement of RL.
Why is an important question when talking about human things. It's pointless to as "why" when the thing in question doesn't possess volition. But human beings do possess volition, which is the reason "why" is an important question to ask. I mean, for the types of questions that have to do with games, "what" or "how" simply doesn't make sense. "How" one gets to max level is such an obvious question, it deserves no response. "Why" one gets to max level is far more interesting.
For me at least, the reason I do a lot of the things I do in an MMO is to get the "fluff." Stat enhancing gear is like a good wrench: it's useful, but it ain't fun in itself. Fluff, however, has no greater purpose than to be fun.
Which is why I just don't buy the argument that RMT is fine if it's for "fluff only," but not stat-enhancing gear. After all, nobody gets "fluff" to get stat-enhancing gear, but we sure get the stat-enhancing gear to get fluff.
I mean, if there's nothing to get while playing that's purely fun in itself (and not fun for something else, like gear for killing MOBs), why play? That's the problem when all the "fun stuff" is available RMT only.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
engineering falls within science. science doesnt deal with whys at all.
im an engineer, and we deal with the "why" all the time. its called trial and error. when things go wrong, the how isn't enough; you must understand something's conclusion for failure in order to correct its anticedents. if youve met an engineer who only dealt with the "how," he must go to a really crappy university, sorry.
and i think this exercise is extremely useful. we used to do it in my engineering design class for clients all the time to find out what they really wanted out of products as opposed to what they said they wanted. so for anyone who says this exercise is futile, let it be.
edit: i play mmos to distract myself from my engineering work =P i play for immersion.
Whatever you say, science does not deal with questions like: why was the universe created or what is the goal of the numerous species. Science deals with why nucleons act the way they do, but not with why they exist. Here is where God enters.
To the OP. I guess a lot of your questions can be answered by instant gratification; drops and other goodies from quests along with a story line which scratches your ego by telling you what an exceptional hero you are. Thus we MMO gamers are easy to fool, for why is it such a joy to be an outstanding hero, when the same is said to everybody and his oncle?
The major thing about MMOs is that you play alongside others, whether you prefer solo, grouping, PvP or whatever. Not necessarily to show off, but to socialize while playing, through interaction or through dialogue. The big MMOs are vibrant communities set in a different world than everyday life. I think it's fun to see how other players choose to develop their character and play alongside them when I feel like it and solo when that suits me best. MMOs at best are a diversion from RL at worst an addiction in replacement of RL.
i consider biology and physics sciences, and they strive to answer exactly those questions.
i understand you put your faith and logic in god, and i support your belief. but to say that scientists do not use logic (which is the purpose of the question "why") is just slander of the scientific community
So far, only Zyllos has taken you seriously and answered the questions the way you asked....pretty much. I think Sovrath had an actual answer...maybe a few others. Keep in mind that I haven't re-read the thread now for a couple of hours, so perhaps some other people have answered seriously by now too.
I can understand why a game developer might ask these questions, so...here are my answers. I'm going to take the time to really think about this.
Why do I kill a monster?
Because they are in some way threatening our lands and they are generally aggressive toward me. If you attack me...expect to be attacked in return. If you don't attack me, but yet you are somehow an enemy of the faction that shelters me and my family of alts, and pays our bills.....expect to pay for your crimes against my people and society.
I will continue to kill the monsters that plague our land.
Why?
Because, it's part of the limited immersion that I get in the game.
Why?
Because developers haven't come up with many ways other than killing things to give a sense of fighting for a cause....YET.
Why?
Well...I think it's because there seems to be a general competitive nature in mankind and "me" vs. "something/someone else" apparently provides a sort of fulfillment to that drive to win. Fighting, whether in sports via team vs. team, or in any other set up....feeds this drive to "win" that we seem to have. It also caters to man's more base tendency to violence, in my opinion, so it's a logical choice as a way of "achieving" in a game world. Games are, of course, generally some sort of competition, whether player vs. player or player vs. environment, there is still a drive to win.
Why do I take a quest? (explain the type of quest it is)
Because my village leaders and fellow citizens need my assistance. I am needed to accomplish some task, that they, for whatever reason, are unable to accomplish. AND....they will pay me for helping them. I like money! They might also reward me with some useful item, or something I can sell...for money. And of course...I want to be a hero in my town. I also want to see how the story of our society unfolds.
Why?
Because that's the point of a game, in part, to me. I am part of a story that is bigger than just myself.
Why?
Because that is the reason I play MMORPGs and RPGs. I like the story. I like the childhood sense of wonder and pretending that I connect with when I'm exploring a world and getting involved in what is happening within that world.
Why?
I think it keeps my mind young, to stay connected to that imaginative side of myself.
Why did I pick the class I picked?
For ME...this is an interesting question, because I generally play ALL the classes in EVERY game that I play, because when I'm in a group....I like to have a good idea of what the other classes have to deal with. It makes me a better party member and a better player if I understand the mechanics of OTHER classes and not just the one I primarily want to play. But if I go by the FIRST class I usually will play to max level, it's generally some sort of healer hybrid, OR major dps.
I pick those classes first for several reasons,
1) I have to play at odd hours of the day, due to having a strange work schedule to deal with, so often I have to solo.
2) Having the ability to self heal is very beneficial. Having the ability to dish out high damage keeps me from NEEDING to heal, but....in most games this means giving up buffs for others, and I enjoy "helping" my fellow citizens of the land, so I like to hone my skills in such a way as to benefit myself, and my community.
3) This is also why I ALWAYS have crafting characters....always....always. In games that allow you to be ONLY a crafter, I will always have a character that does THAT, as well. This benefits my "community" and also is how my characters "support" themselves. I loathe those that are unwilling to "work" to make their gold and want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Those people should never become heroes. They are a blight. (Yeah....I'm into roleplaying, sorry.)
Why am I harvesting resource X?
Because you should not expect to go through life without working at all. Harvesting is work. I have to go to work every day and either mine, or pick herbs, or garden (as in LotRO), or whatever. This is part of my character's personality. Crafting in a game, and how it is done...is a HUGE issue with me. If it's done well....it adds greatly to the sense of immersion. If it is done poorly....it's a game breaker eventually for me.
I harvest resources to make useful items for myself, my "family", and my guild mates. I also make a great deal of money doing this.
Why?
Well in the games I generally LIKE...not everyone chooses to be a crafter, for various reasons. Usually it's because there seems to be more of an "FPS mentality" in gaming these days, than an "RPG mentality." OR...the crafting is a bit time consuming and takes a little bit of skill, like in EQ2. This allows for roleplayers, like myself, to actually make crafting an in game "profession," and it pays very well, since the things that are crafted are needed....or DESIRED (such as rare housing items)....and there is no way to GET them other than from a crafter.
This gives my character added "purpose" in the world.
Anyway....that's a female roleplayer's perspective, in part, on these questions. I could probably go on a lot longer, but we've already passed the edge of TL:DR.
Comments
im an engineer, and we deal with the "why" all the time. its called trial and error. when things go wrong, the how isn't enough; you must understand something's conclusion for failure in order to correct its anticedents. if youve met an engineer who only dealt with the "how," he must go to a really crappy university, sorry.
and i think this exercise is extremely useful. we used to do it in my engineering design class for clients all the time to find out what they really wanted out of products as opposed to what they said they wanted. so for anyone who says this exercise is futile, let it be.
edit: i play mmos to distract myself from my engineering work =P i play for immersion.
Whatever you say, science does not deal with questions like: why was the universe created or what is the goal of the numerous species. Science deals with why nucleons act the way they do, but not with why they exist. Here is where God enters.
To the OP. I guess a lot of your questions can be answered by instant gratification; drops and other goodies from quests along with a story line which scratches your ego by telling you what an exceptional hero you are. Thus we MMO gamers are easy to fool, for why is it such a joy to be an outstanding hero, when the same is said to everybody and his oncle?
Life sucks when you're not easy to fool.
The answer to the OP's question is not that hard to find.
Just look at the success of Diablo 1 & 2.
People like to kill stuff and feel powerful. That is it. Violence is in our genes. Wanting to overpower the opponent is in our genes. MMOs give those to us in spades.
Its not so much just to "show off" as you put. Humans define themselves via interactions and comparisons with other human beings. To compare gear/achievements (not just to show how uber you are-though there are some with a hyper-competitive nature that do) gives a sense of existence to that character and through it, the player. To the player, it makes his achievements, his time mean something.
Some of you guys are making MMORPGs sound like a penis size contest rather than a form of entertainment.
im an engineer, and we deal with the "why" all the time. its called trial and error. when things go wrong, the how isn't enough; you must understand something's conclusion for failure in order to correct its anticedents. if youve met an engineer who only dealt with the "how," he must go to a really crappy university, sorry.
and i think this exercise is extremely useful. we used to do it in my engineering design class for clients all the time to find out what they really wanted out of products as opposed to what they said they wanted. so for anyone who says this exercise is futile, let it be.
edit: i play mmos to distract myself from my engineering work =P i play for immersion.
Whatever you say, science does not deal with questions like: why was the universe created or what is the goal of the numerous species. Science deals with why nucleons act the way they do, but not with why they exist. Here is where God enters.
To the OP. I guess a lot of your questions can be answered by instant gratification; drops and other goodies from quests along with a story line which scratches your ego by telling you what an exceptional hero you are. Thus we MMO gamers are easy to fool, for why is it such a joy to be an outstanding hero, when the same is said to everybody and his oncle?
The major thing about MMOs is that you play alongside others, whether you prefer solo, grouping, PvP or whatever. Not necessarily to show off, but to socialize while playing, through interaction or through dialogue. The big MMOs are vibrant communities set in a different world than everyday life. I think it's fun to see how other players choose to develop their character and play alongside them when I feel like it and solo when that suits me best. MMOs at best are a diversion from RL at worst an addiction in replacement of RL.
Why is an important question when talking about human things. It's pointless to as "why" when the thing in question doesn't possess volition. But human beings do possess volition, which is the reason "why" is an important question to ask. I mean, for the types of questions that have to do with games, "what" or "how" simply doesn't make sense. "How" one gets to max level is such an obvious question, it deserves no response. "Why" one gets to max level is far more interesting.
For me at least, the reason I do a lot of the things I do in an MMO is to get the "fluff." Stat enhancing gear is like a good wrench: it's useful, but it ain't fun in itself. Fluff, however, has no greater purpose than to be fun.
Which is why I just don't buy the argument that RMT is fine if it's for "fluff only," but not stat-enhancing gear. After all, nobody gets "fluff" to get stat-enhancing gear, but we sure get the stat-enhancing gear to get fluff.
I mean, if there's nothing to get while playing that's purely fun in itself (and not fun for something else, like gear for killing MOBs), why play? That's the problem when all the "fun stuff" is available RMT only.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
im an engineer, and we deal with the "why" all the time. its called trial and error. when things go wrong, the how isn't enough; you must understand something's conclusion for failure in order to correct its anticedents. if youve met an engineer who only dealt with the "how," he must go to a really crappy university, sorry.
and i think this exercise is extremely useful. we used to do it in my engineering design class for clients all the time to find out what they really wanted out of products as opposed to what they said they wanted. so for anyone who says this exercise is futile, let it be.
edit: i play mmos to distract myself from my engineering work =P i play for immersion.
Whatever you say, science does not deal with questions like: why was the universe created or what is the goal of the numerous species. Science deals with why nucleons act the way they do, but not with why they exist. Here is where God enters.
To the OP. I guess a lot of your questions can be answered by instant gratification; drops and other goodies from quests along with a story line which scratches your ego by telling you what an exceptional hero you are. Thus we MMO gamers are easy to fool, for why is it such a joy to be an outstanding hero, when the same is said to everybody and his oncle?
The major thing about MMOs is that you play alongside others, whether you prefer solo, grouping, PvP or whatever. Not necessarily to show off, but to socialize while playing, through interaction or through dialogue. The big MMOs are vibrant communities set in a different world than everyday life. I think it's fun to see how other players choose to develop their character and play alongside them when I feel like it and solo when that suits me best. MMOs at best are a diversion from RL at worst an addiction in replacement of RL.
i consider biology and physics sciences, and they strive to answer exactly those questions.
i understand you put your faith and logic in god, and i support your belief. but to say that scientists do not use logic (which is the purpose of the question "why") is just slander of the scientific community
So far, only Zyllos has taken you seriously and answered the questions the way you asked....pretty much. I think Sovrath had an actual answer...maybe a few others. Keep in mind that I haven't re-read the thread now for a couple of hours, so perhaps some other people have answered seriously by now too.
I can understand why a game developer might ask these questions, so...here are my answers. I'm going to take the time to really think about this.
Why do I kill a monster?
Because they are in some way threatening our lands and they are generally aggressive toward me. If you attack me...expect to be attacked in return. If you don't attack me, but yet you are somehow an enemy of the faction that shelters me and my family of alts, and pays our bills.....expect to pay for your crimes against my people and society.
I will continue to kill the monsters that plague our land.
Why?
Because, it's part of the limited immersion that I get in the game.
Why?
Because developers haven't come up with many ways other than killing things to give a sense of fighting for a cause....YET.
Why?
Well...I think it's because there seems to be a general competitive nature in mankind and "me" vs. "something/someone else" apparently provides a sort of fulfillment to that drive to win. Fighting, whether in sports via team vs. team, or in any other set up....feeds this drive to "win" that we seem to have. It also caters to man's more base tendency to violence, in my opinion, so it's a logical choice as a way of "achieving" in a game world. Games are, of course, generally some sort of competition, whether player vs. player or player vs. environment, there is still a drive to win.
Why do I take a quest? (explain the type of quest it is)
Because my village leaders and fellow citizens need my assistance. I am needed to accomplish some task, that they, for whatever reason, are unable to accomplish. AND....they will pay me for helping them. I like money! They might also reward me with some useful item, or something I can sell...for money.
And of course...I want to be a hero in my town. I also want to see how the story of our society unfolds.
Why?
Because that's the point of a game, in part, to me. I am part of a story that is bigger than just myself.
Why?
Because that is the reason I play MMORPGs and RPGs. I like the story. I like the childhood sense of wonder and pretending that I connect with when I'm exploring a world and getting involved in what is happening within that world.
Why?
I think it keeps my mind young, to stay connected to that imaginative side of myself.
Why did I pick the class I picked?
For ME...this is an interesting question, because I generally play ALL the classes in EVERY game that I play, because when I'm in a group....I like to have a good idea of what the other classes have to deal with. It makes me a better party member and a better player if I understand the mechanics of OTHER classes and not just the one I primarily want to play. But if I go by the FIRST class I usually will play to max level, it's generally some sort of healer hybrid, OR major dps.
I pick those classes first for several reasons,
1) I have to play at odd hours of the day, due to having a strange work schedule to deal with, so often I have to solo.
2) Having the ability to self heal is very beneficial. Having the ability to dish out high damage keeps me from NEEDING to heal, but....in most games this means giving up buffs for others, and I enjoy "helping" my fellow citizens of the land, so I like to hone my skills in such a way as to benefit myself, and my community.
3) This is also why I ALWAYS have crafting characters....always....always. In games that allow you to be ONLY a crafter, I will always have a character that does THAT, as well. This benefits my "community" and also is how my characters "support" themselves. I loathe those that are unwilling to "work" to make their gold and want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Those people should never become heroes. They are a blight. (Yeah....I'm into roleplaying, sorry.)
Why am I harvesting resource X?
Because you should not expect to go through life without working at all. Harvesting is work. I have to go to work every day and either mine, or pick herbs, or garden (as in LotRO), or whatever. This is part of my character's personality. Crafting in a game, and how it is done...is a HUGE issue with me. If it's done well....it adds greatly to the sense of immersion. If it is done poorly....it's a game breaker eventually for me.
I harvest resources to make useful items for myself, my "family", and my guild mates. I also make a great deal of money doing this.
Why?
Well in the games I generally LIKE...not everyone chooses to be a crafter, for various reasons. Usually it's because there seems to be more of an "FPS mentality" in gaming these days, than an "RPG mentality." OR...the crafting is a bit time consuming and takes a little bit of skill, like in EQ2. This allows for roleplayers, like myself, to actually make crafting an in game "profession," and it pays very well, since the things that are crafted are needed....or DESIRED (such as rare housing items)....and there is no way to GET them other than from a crafter.
This gives my character added "purpose" in the world.
Anyway....that's a female roleplayer's perspective, in part, on these questions. I could probably go on a lot longer, but we've already passed the edge of TL:DR.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Customer service is the most costly expense after a MMO launches.
Customer service is why MMOs have been dumbed down with arrows on the mini map that lead you to the quests and glowy quest items that you can't miss.
OP wants an MMO that's a customer service nightmare.
Would OP be willing to pay $80 a month for all the customer service required for his complex game?
MMOs have been dumbed down to cut customer service costs.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren