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Story will not interfere with endgame
greed0104
Member Posts: 2,134
This is something that's been running through peoples minds. I know I've been curious about it. James Ohlen talked about this for a bit.
Speaking to IncGamers, BioWare's James Ohlen said that the developer will have no problems enticing players back for more once they reach the max level.
"Obviously the endgame of our game is very important and something we've put a lot of thought into, but at the end of the day, there's a lot of different ways to do endgames," said Ohlen.
"I can't go into detail on how we're doing it, or if we're doing those things [battlegrounds, endgame raids] or in what form they're going to be coming, because we're still working on that and developing it, but in no way does us focusing on story in any way challenge us in that area."
I'm curious as to what he means by a lot of different ways. I'm thinking dungeon scaling, PvP, perhaps other ways to gather gear besides raiding.
While we are on this subject, I was talking to a friend a few months back about how they may be planning to do endgame. He talked about an idea I found to be kinda nice. What about space? I'm not sure what to believe when it comes to this actually releasing with the game. People that do enjoy piloting might find it a more enjoyable PvE/PvP experience then running around smacking mobs around. He talked about Space bosses and the possibility of killing them and having them drop ship pieces and gear which would have been scavenged from the soldiers aboard the ships.
I started thinking about the points in the ToS (Remember the RMT scare?). Maybe they are obtained by downing bosses which could be spent on anything you wanted instead of having to hope that one piece of gear you need off that one boss would drop. This is speculation, if you can call it that. But I see something like this as a possibility. I'm pretty sure BioWare is exploring completely different routes to endgame, somethings that could put this game in a league of it's own.
Anyways back of topic, John Ohlen then went on to talk about Story Arcs.
He added that the fact that each class in The Old Republic has its own story will add to the game's replayability factor.
"Just to give one example, if you were to play a Jedi Knight on the Republic side, and then if you were going to play the Bounty Hunter on the Imperial side, it's actually like two different games," he said.
"None of the story content, none of the combat - none of it's shared. So you essentially have just played two different MMOs."
"You're going to have a really epic, awesome ending when you finish your class story arc in this game, but that doesn't mean that your character can't continue," he explained.
The last quote has me pretty excited. Now I'm really interested in knowing how people grouping for story arcs, while being totally different classes, is going to work.
And before I forget. I would like to see some more information on PvP to. I'd really like to know how and where I'm going to be kicking some Republic ass : )
www.incgamers.com/News/19682/bioware-on-the-old-republics-endgame
Comments
"but in no way does us focusing on story in any way challenge us in that area."
then they don't know what they're doing
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
wha? Because they're able to focus on story, while create an endgame system for us (giving both attention without challenge), they don't know what they're doing?
Oh, they don't know what they're doing. That totally makes sense. Because story will not interfere with end game, they don't know what they're doing... Wait, what?!
Now, on to awesomeness! So, letting the imagination unfurl, boss battles in space is an amazing idea. The likelyhood of the dropping space travel on us at release is possible, but I don't want it just yet. I definitely do want it eventually, but I couldn't figure out when. "End game". Brilliant. Bos battles in space, say against a fleet of Republic/Sith ships would be an ideal battle sequence. But, just as I enjoy killing the phat loot, I also like the ride on the way.
So, what could be done on the way there that would make the mission exciting? Is it a raid-based run, or could you do this solo or in a small group? For me, there are certain aspects of raiding that make a battle feel epic. I had invisioned, as I was sitting here tripping on yet another 10-strip of blotter, a space battle scene taking place, where the mission of the groups of the raids is to break up and decide (tactfully, mind you) which ships the groups should disburse into. Group A could move off to the Mother ship, while groups B and C handle the two support ships. Perhaps on their way there, their teams get to encounter resistence from enemy fighters, so they're in their fighters and enter a sort of "minigame" - if you will - before their final course into whichever ship they were chosen to destroy. Oh... well... it sounded epic at first. Now it just sounds complicated. Still, I love the idea of space flight in this game. STO=NO. TOR=YES Please.
THE Rooster Nash
I don't see how I am going to be able to level with my guild. If we're all doing 4 different storylines, how exactly will we work together without getting confused because we're constantly jumping back and forth between story lines.
I guess the actual mmo part starts after playing a standard rpg game, I guess I can live with it, but to be honest I'd rather just power grind with my friends. Sitting in vent killing stuff while talking about something else will always be better than any single/small group storyline.
The Official God FAQ
I think a pretty neat encounter would be one that involved two different parties (all in one group mind you) where one of the parties board the ship, maybe part of the story could involve a rescue from the inside, while the other one remains in space combating it from the outside. I would rather these type of encounters be instanced. I can't stand bosses that are in the world, seems to turn into a giant zergfest. Zerging can be fun, but I prefer some sort of strategy with my game play.
Sounds like they're just doing a KOTOR-style single player experience but making player advancement slower to reap the monthy subscription fee rewards.
Obviously they want to concentrate on the low level and mid level content since thats what players will be experiencing first
Why are there so many cutesie, fantasy, childish MMO's. Give me blood, gore and a long lasting challenge. I don't need my hand being held along the way. Thanks.
Talk is cheap. Way cheaper than actual content.
Devs lie for a living.
Rerolls are not an end game.
Star Wars isn't Stars Wars without space combat. Of course - this isn't Star Wars - it's KOTOR the MMO.
"I can't go into detail on how we're doing it, or if we're doing those things [battlegrounds, endgame raids] or in what form they're going to be coming, because we're still working on that and developing it, but in no way does us focusing on story in any way challenge us in that area."
Translation: "trust me". Okay, PC.
To sum up:
I have no intention of playing until there is spaceship combat, and unless there is no cash shop (assuming the game is P2P).
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Wow. Nice strawman there!
Obviously they are concentrating on the whole game and not just one part. Good, they are building a game to be fun from the start, something that is lacking in every MMO today. I want something more then kill that boar, take this package 20 feet north. It's getting old.
Keep in mind the Flashpoint video they have demonstrated with the BH and SW. They were grouped, at low level, doing the story. Doesn't exactly look like a SP experience to me. They're not going to hold your hand in finding friends to play with.
Why are you here exactly, Doubter? Every post you make revolves around some conspiracy that the Developers of every game are out to get you. But I'll bite.
Devs lie for a Living: True, most games are hyped through lie after lie, when the date finally rolls around for release half of those features that were promised were not in the final product. This I agree with you on. But...BioWare is not promising anything, actually they have assured us on what's in the game on very little. This article didn't exactly promise anything other then we will have endgame in the form of character progression. That quote you replied with doesn't exactly say "Trust me" he never told us how it would be done, he said they have ideas as to how they are going to do it, and was not sure IF they would be in the game, nothing is final.
"I can't go into detail on how we're doing it, or if we're doing those things [battlegrounds, endgame raids] or in what form they're going to be coming, because we're still working on that and developing it, but in no way does us focusing on story in any way challenge us in that area."
Rerolls are not an end game: Because he claimed it to be, right? No, actually he was just commenting on it, letting us know playing an alternative character wont be a boring experience. Every play through will be a new and exciting experience.
To sum this up:
He basically said "We are capable of focusing on Endgame while creating a enjoyable story for every class". That's the only part that could be turned into "Trust me", and I actually do trust them here.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
It's funny, lots of you guys bitch and moan for something new, some sort of involving, innovative game. While this very company is on their own forums asking the community what type of endgame experience we want, while the community is throwing out amazing examples and BioWare admitting they are excellent and and will be taken into consideration. BUT THEY LIE AMIRITE!
Typical MMORPG.com member :"We want innovation!"
Dev: "We have a completely new type of end game for you guys while we are going to provide you with a great experience from beginning to end"
Typical MMORPG.com member: "Now you're straying from the basic formula, which doesn't involve fun, this game will fail"
/rant
/fact
Why are you here exactly, Doubter? Every post you make revolves around some conspiracy that the Developers of every game are out to get you. But I'll bite.
Devs lie for a Living: True, most games are hyped through lie after lie, when the date finally rolls around for release half of those features that were promised were not in the final product. This I agree with you on. But...BioWare is not promising anything, actually they have assured us on what's in the game on very little. This article didn't exactly promise anything other then we will have endgame in the form of character progression. That quote you replied with doesn't exactly say "Trust me" he never told us how it would be done, he said they have ideas as to how they are going to do it, and was not sure IF they would be in the game, nothing is final.
"I can't go into detail on how we're doing it, or if we're doing those things [battlegrounds, endgame raids] or in what form they're going to be coming, because we're still working on that and developing it, but in no way does us focusing on story in any way challenge us in that area."
Rerolls are not an end game: Because he claimed it to be, right? No, actually he was just commenting on it, letting us know playing an alternative character wont be a boring experience. Basically, every play through will be a new and exciting experience.
To sum this up:
He basically said "We are capable of focusing on Endgame while creating a enjoyable story for every class". That's the only part that could be turned into "Trust me", and I actually do trust them here.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
It's funny, lots of you guys bitch and moan for something new, some sort of involving, innovative game. While this very company is on their own forums asking the community what type of endgame experience we want, while the community is throwing out amazing examples and admitting they are excellent and are being taken into consideration. BUT THEY LIE AMIRITE!
Typical MMORPG.com member :"We want innovation!"
Dev: "We have a completely new type of end game for you guys while we are going to provide you with a great experience from beginning to end"
Typical MMORPG.com member: "Now you're straying from the basic formula, which doesn't involve fun, this game will fail"
/rant
/fact
Once again Greed, I agree with you completely.
I think there are many people on these forums who are just impossible to please. They approach every game at every stage of development from the standpoint that the developers are out to lie to and cheat them. They constantly demand change and innovation and then immediately berate devs when it seems like they are doing just that...
I don't think a lot of the doubters will ever be happy...
The problem the doubters are having, is they're not being fed the same bullshit routine other companies dish out with every update, claiming to have this and that to keep you satisfied. BioWare is doing this completely different, they are going very slow when it comes to releasing information. I see this as them taking the time and consideration of what goes into the game, no empty promises, when they do finally tell us something will be in the game they show us in some form of demonstration.
The doubters will never be happy because they don't have a damn clue what they want. You may call them confused, I call them Idiots, because I know exactly what I want.
The problem the doubters are having, is they're not being fed the same bullshit routine other companies dish out with every update, claiming to have this and that to keep you satisfied. BioWare is doing this completely different, they are going very slow when it comes to releasing information. I see this as them taking the time and consideration of what goes into the game, no empty promises, when they do finally tell us something will be in the game they show us in some form of demonstration.
The doubters will never be happy because they don't have a damn clue what they want. You may call them confused, I call them Idiots, because I know exactly what I want.
I'm quite excited to see what BioWare will come up with. They've been talking about focusing on all aspects of gameplay, including the story, grouping, and even endgame. The fact they won't release definite information until its in the game is refreshing.
As for not knowing what you want in an MMO (for the doubters or otherwise), I've been there. I don't really know everything I want out of an MMO, and I don' think its my job to know exactly what I want out of every game I play. Who knew I would enjoy Fallen Earth as much as I have, or that the Wii would become so popular. I like to keep an open mind so as not to close off the possibility of something new being fun to me. Maybe thats what the genre needs more of, players knowing less of what they want, and more of developers striving to show us new ways to have fun. I think thats one of the reasons I'm so happy with BioWare... in this stale genre they're already trying something new and outspoken... and maybe... people just don't know this is what they want yet.
The problem the doubters are having, is they're not being fed the same bullshit routine other companies dish out with every update, claiming to have this and that to keep you satisfied. BioWare is doing this completely different, they are going very slow when it comes to releasing information. I see this as them taking the time and consideration of what goes into the game, no empty promises, when they do finally tell us something will be in the game they show us in some form of demonstration.
The doubters will never be happy because they don't have a damn clue what they want. You may call them confused, I call them Idiots, because I know exactly what I want.
I'm quite excited to see what BioWare will come up with. They've been talking about focusing on all aspects of gameplay, including the story, grouping, and even endgame. The fact they won't release definite information until its in the game is refreshing.
As for not knowing what you want in an MMO (for the doubters or otherwise), I've been there. I don't really know everything I want out of an MMO, and I don' think its my job to know exactly what I want out of every game I play. Who knew I would enjoy Fallen Earth as much as I have, or that the Wii would become so popular. I like to keep an open mind so as not to close off the possibility of something new being fun to me. Maybe thats what the genre needs more of, players knowing less of what they want, and more of developers striving to show us new ways to have fun. I think thats one of the reasons I'm so happy with BioWare... in this stale genre they're already trying something new and outspoken... and maybe... people just don't know this is what they want yet.
The difference between you not knowing and them, you're not on here asking for things, then being given what you wanted only to reject it with anger and complaints.
I'm just saying, this site is full of people that throw the word innovation around, usually when you ask for innovation you have a specific idea as to what is innovative to you and you share what's on your mind. But here, most people say "I want innovation" and leave it at that. I want a game that does not start out slow and boring (have you ever been told "It picks up at max level"?) where every precious second I spend in a game is fun and not a waste of my time. Watch, when people get this, which is asked for a lot, they will complain about having to be involved in the game. Next people will complain that they had to play the game to enjoy it.
The problem the doubters are having, is they're not being fed the same bullshit routine other companies dish out with every update, claiming to have this and that to keep you satisfied. BioWare is doing this completely different, they are going very slow when it comes to releasing information. I see this as them taking the time and consideration of what goes into the game, no empty promises, when they do finally tell us something will be in the game they show us in some form of demonstration.
The doubters will never be happy because they don't have a damn clue what they want. You may call them confused, I call them Idiots, because I know exactly what I want.
I'm quite excited to see what BioWare will come up with. They've been talking about focusing on all aspects of gameplay, including the story, grouping, and even endgame. The fact they won't release definite information until its in the game is refreshing.
As for not knowing what you want in an MMO (for the doubters or otherwise), I've been there. I don't really know everything I want out of an MMO, and I don' think its my job to know exactly what I want out of every game I play. Who knew I would enjoy Fallen Earth as much as I have, or that the Wii would become so popular. I like to keep an open mind so as not to close off the possibility of something new being fun to me. Maybe thats what the genre needs more of, players knowing less of what they want, and more of developers striving to show us new ways to have fun. I think thats one of the reasons I'm so happy with BioWare... in this stale genre they're already trying something new and outspoken... and maybe... people just don't know this is what they want yet.
The difference between you not knowing and them, you're not on here asking for things, then being given what you wanted only to reject it with anger and complaints.
I'm just saying, this site is full of people that throw the word innovation around, usually when you ask for innovation you have a specific idea as to what is innovative to you and you share what's on your mind. But here, most people say "I want innovation" and leave it at that. I want a game that does not start out slow and boring (have you ever been told "It picks up at max level"?) where every precious second I spend in a game is fun and not a waste of my time. Watch, when people get this, which is asked for a lot, they will complain about having to be involved in the game. Next people will complain that they had to play the game to enjoy it.
point well made
Like others have said, I am willing to give Bioware my trust. I'll still evaluate the game when it comes up, but Bioware is a good company and pretty honest and careful about its promises. There are some other good companies like this out there (Square for instance), but I have to agree with Doubter that generally MMOs have a lot of false promises because most companies do promise the moon and don't come close to delivering. It's important to be able to distinguish between companies that are pretty trustworthy and those that are not.
Yeah this is why I really like Bioware, they are not giving us the media hype BS, When they create something they show us. Lets face it, Even if they don't impliment half the stuff some of the inpatient players want at the start, sooner or later after release it will be in game. I just think Bioware is doing everything right at the moment in building a really good solid game with no BS that we can enjoy for many years. At the end of the day, there will be no pleasing some players come release, at this moment in time I think this game will rock and I'm dying to get into beta
One last thing, KOTOR IS a part of Star Wars, or are you not familiar with the Star Wars canon? Honest question requiring an honest answer...
THE Rooster Nash
He has been saying that for some time now. It's probably best to brand him as one of the the special "Angry Crybaby Vets" so people could identify him and those like him. Kinda like cattle, but more mindless.
He has been saying that for some time now. It's probably best to brand him as one of the the special "Angry Crybaby Vets" so people could identify him and those like him. Kinda like cattle, but more mindless.
Ahh, duelly noted...
THE Rooster Nash
If this game is as good as it looks, it will be pretty damn successful.
Playing: World Of Warcraft
Resting From: Nothing
Retired: EQ2, CoH, Tabula Rasa, SWG, Warhammer, AoC
Waiting For: SWTOR, APB
Love(d): Tabula Rasa, SWG, World Of Warcraft, Age of Conan
I've gotten the sense that re-rolling a new character is the crux of their "endgame". It's the only thing they've really talked about and it then makes sense that story won't interfere with it: It IS it. Course, we'll see when and if they start talking heavily about the other aspects that to date they have only mentioned in an "oh yeah, we'll have that too because it's what you'd expect in an MMO".
I hate the term "endgame" as in my opinion the whole game should be compelling and not focusing on one part. But that's a discussion for another day/thread.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Well, I hope that sense is wrong Khal. I see it a lot different then you. I'm pretty sure they are releasing information when they know for a fact it will be there. I could tell you right now that ToR will have a form of character progression after max level, I could then go on to say that ToR will have 30+ classes, and it would have actual crafting classes. Happy? Until you figure out the information people were wanting them to release so badly was fabricated to keep them interested.
I'd rather BioWare take there time and release information when ready. I'm in no rush and the people that are in a rush will quickly get weeded out, I'd rather the community I play with to have some patience after all.
But I do share your concern, hopefully you will consider the wait a good thing, even though I'm sure you're not interested in actually playing this game.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Honestly, I hope Tor is as much of a single player Rpg as you can get during its leveling leading to the class arcs finally.
You guys want an endgame?
Good luck with your Raid and instanced pvp farm plucking those new item rewards off vendors.
I want to Play kotor 3.
If the closest I can get to that is by playing through each class solo then so be it.
I'll unsub before the repetitive shit that has destroyed the mmo genre takes hold of this game.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum