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The console VS PC arguement

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  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357
    Originally posted by Lazarus71


    90% of what you typed there comes down to personal opinion and or personal preferances.  My personal list based on enjoyment I had with the various platforms based purely on gaming would be.
    PC = SNES = PS2 = Arcade = DS = PS1 = NES = GB = GBA = PS3 = Dreamcast = 360 = Wii = 64 = all Atari = Genesis 

     

    (100% of this thread comes down to personal opinion or personal preferences.)

    ~My list would be~

    PS2 = PS1 > 360 = PC > Genesis = Atari > PS3 > GB(A) > SNES = NES > DS > 64 > Arcade > Dreamcast > Wii

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • Lazarus71Lazarus71 Member UncommonPosts: 1,081
    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by Lazarus71


    90% of what you typed there comes down to personal opinion and or personal preferances.  My personal list based on enjoyment I had with the various platforms based purely on gaming would be.
    PC = SNES = PS2 = Arcade = DS = PS1 = NES = GB = GBA = PS3 = Dreamcast = 360 = Wii = 64 = all Atari = Genesis 

     

    (100% of this thread comes down to personal opinion or personal preferences.)

    ~My list would be~

    PS2 = PS1 > 360 = PC > Genesis = Atari > PS3 > GB(A) > SNES = NES > DS > 64 > Arcade > Dreamcast > Wii



     

    I am aware of that I just think some people state things as facts even though they are not.  Honestly as I said before I've never understood the need to justify ones choice in gaming platforms. Just play what you like on the platform you prefer lol.

    No signature, I don't have a pen

  • TardcoreTardcore Member Posts: 2,325
    Originally posted by gauge2k3


    I am a loyal PC gamer.  I make my own machines.  I have a degree in computer science.  I know my way around these puppies inside and out.
    I keep seeing these arguements by console gamers saying the PC is on the way out and by PC gamers saying that they are not.  I just want to take some time and talk about that from a technical standpoint.
    Consoles are computers.  Just let that settle for a moment.  Ok, breathe.  Consoles have always been computers.  It doesn't have an ATX tower w/ mouse and keyboard.  But it does have a CPU, RAM, a hard drive, a DVD ROM ( or blueray depending on your preference ).  It's all there.  The ps3 even lets you install other operating systems on it natively.  To say PC's are on the way is not entirely correct.  Shifting might be a better word.  PC's will always have a place, and a loyal following.  Add a mouse "controller" and a keyboard "controller" and you have a computer ready to go.  You would think most would know this by now looking at some of the games ported directly from PC to gaming consoles.
     
    I am going to look at it the other way now.  Time for PC users to hear some reality too.
     
    The market is shifting.  Breath now. :)  There are several reasons for this.  Unified development kits for consoles means easier development and faster production.  A console is 1 system.  They don't have to add support for X number of GFX cards, Y number of OS's, and 2 CPU's.  Everything is set on a console.  Another major factor is piracy.  Yes it happens on consoles, but it is RAMPANT on PC's.  I could write an entire forum about my hatred for software pirates.  All it would get are some lame excuses why they are entitled to free stuff.  It is stealing, end of story.  The risk of piracy on a console is minimal, at best.  All these factors are contributing to a shift into the console markets.
     
    Now the last part.  The consoles guys are screaming glory.
     
    It won't last forever.  It will even out and shift.  Just as, if the mac gets more popular it will see more viruses, so to will the consoles have more pirating tools as they get more popular.  Then people will demand options for their consoles.  Sony and Microsoft will want to be the first to offer optional configurations of hardware.  Then the development time, piracy, it all catches up to PC's.
     
    In conclusion, the shift to consoles is happening.  Anyone can see it.  However, it will not last forever.  Thoughts?

    I would advise a little more research on your part if you believe what you said to be true about the risk console piracy being minimal.

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  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182
    Originally posted by Rallycart

    Originally posted by Gameloading

    This is also to the person who considers PC peripherals reveinventing, that's not reinventing. Because these peripherals are only used by few, no games will be made that are designed with that in mind. 



    The way you experience console games have changed significantly. PC games have always been around mouse and keyboards because PC gamers are not open for evolution of the platform.

     

    The fact that many people do not make use of the peripherals does not mean it is not re-inventing the PC experience. Not everyone will buy a Wii Fit, not everyone will get Wii Motion Plus. Not everyone will get that camera thing for X-Box 360. The point is that you CAN. And, for you information, SEVERAL games have been made specifically around these PC devices.

    PC games are only around the mouse and keyboard if that is how you decide to use it. I, myself, use several PC peripherals that are not even something you might consider "normal" for certain games. Like flight peddals for MMOs. Great stuff for additional fast actions if your hands are already tied up. The Novint Falcon? You have to experience it in a shooter to TRUELY understand how cool it is. It completely changes Crysis. And Half Life 2 with it, using the Gravity Gun? Undescribible. (<--- Yes, misspelled, sue me :P)

    Yes it does mean that it's not reinventing the PC experience. A reinvention happens when games are actually built with the new control mechanism in mind which is currently not happening on the PC

    The difference between PC peripherals and console peripherals is that console peripherals are support by big companies, PC peripherals for the most part are not. If Nintendo, When Microsoft or Sony comes up with a peripherals, they can have their first party companies develop games for it or if they launch a new console, launch with a new way of playing games so that developers have to use it.

    with PC peripherals, this isn't really possible.  Sure there might be a semi successful peripheral on the PC now and then with a few games supported, but most of those are controllers designed for the games, not games designed for a new controller. While this works with steering wheels and joystiqs. something along the lines of  the Motion controller, Project Natal or the Nintendo DS? Probably not going to happen on the PC. Yeah you might play traditional mouse and keyboard games with a different peripheral, but something along the lines Wii sports on the Wii, Riggashae on 360 or The Legend of Zelda phantom hourglass on DS? not really

    The DS is a perfect example of this. It  perfected touch screen controls and developers know how to use it. it delivers an entire new way of experiencing games and that has become the standard for that platform. This is currently also happening with home consoles, but at a slower pace as motion controls aren't as developed yet and still pretty new.  This is a great example of evolution.



    On the PC, this isn't happening at all. The Mouse and keyboard is still the standards and there is no signs of them getting improved upon or replaced by something better.

  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,131

    One of the big reasons consoles are so popular, price, is a result of the companies that make them taking a huge loss on them.  Microsoft and Sony have never made any money from the consoles themselves.  The way they make money is on licensing fees they charge to the developers of the games.  Ever wonder why games cost $10 or more for the console than for the pc?  Thats why.  If they charged a price that actually reflected what it cost to make a 360 or PS3, I guarantee they would lose a lot of people.  Console prices are kept artificially low.  If this wasn't the case, consoles would cost just as much, or more, than a good pc gaming rig.

    As for the quality of games, well, part of the reason for this is, esp. recently, many pc games are nothing more than ports of their console counterpart.  Little to no effort is put into improving them for the pc (better graphics, no check point saves, etc).  Developers today aren't taking full advantage of what the pc can do because they're developing for consoles first and foremost, which limits a lot they can do.  Ever wonder why they're aren't many DX10 games available?  Because theres no real incentive for developers to do so when consoles can't take advantage of it.  So often what we get is instead of bringing consoles up to or close to the pc experience, pc gamers are brought down to the console level and console gamers are stuck in a rut.  Thats bad for all gamers, pc and console alike.

     

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

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  • TryggviTryggvi Member Posts: 83

    They don't need to improve or change PC's mouse and keyboard play style.  It's one of the main reasons I prefer the PC.

  • peenkpeenk Member Posts: 270

    Did you even read what I said? ....

    I prefer PCs 100%, what I was saying is that the trend for all the consoles coming out is that they are more and more like PCs.  And eventually you can only be so similar to PC that you ARE in essence a PC ...

    I did not say that consoles would substitute PCs which is what your post implies that I said, but I assure you, I did not mean it that way.

    WTB Shadowbane 2
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  • Predator160Predator160 Member Posts: 128

    There may be a shift...your right...but it doesn't matter- PC games will ALWAYS stomp console games until console games become as easy to control as PC games. At least for me... I can shoot at a pixel much easier with a mouse and a keyboard, using my hands...then I ever could with a joystick using my thumb.

  • TryggviTryggvi Member Posts: 83
    Originally posted by Predator160


    At least for me... I can shoot at a pixel much easier with a mouse and a keyboard, using my hands...then I ever could with a joystick using my thumb.

     

    That's why console FPS games have large hitboxes.

  • Predator160Predator160 Member Posts: 128
    Originally posted by Tryggvi

    Originally posted by Predator160


    At least for me... I can shoot at a pixel much easier with a mouse and a keyboard, using my hands...then I ever could with a joystick using my thumb.

     

    That's why console FPS games have large hitboxes.

     

    Right...but the point is, PC games allow you more direct control of your person. When I want to aim at something with a mouse, I can move the mouse instantly with almost direct precision, with a joystick I have to fight the stupid thing just to get it within a couple feet of where I want the recticle to go. BTW I don't hate console games or anything...I just very much prefer PC games.

    Also I play CoD and Halo a lot with my "console" friends...it's really annoying getting owned by them in Halo when I know if I had a keyboard and a mouse they wouldn't stand a chance. LOL!

  • AnimusChaserAnimusChaser Member Posts: 91

    I'm going to put my 2c.


    I myself has always been a PC gamer. Have always had PC's in my life and know them inside out and back to front. I love PC games and PC gaming. I recently bought a console however. The reasoning behind this is like it or not PC gaming is slowing up. I was always watching my friends playing all these great titles on their PS3's and I could not because of the PC only boundary for every 1 PC great PC game released there are 4 console titles released and even then the 1 good PC game is one of the 4 console games and is more often or not just a console to PC port. This goes with playing online as well. I could not enjoy online gaming sessions with my friends on my PC.

    The last straw for me was when MW2 was not released with dedicated servers. The only reason I was going to get MW2 on PC was for the dedicated servers. When IW decided that they were going to use the match making system for the PC as well I realized how all the great games now coming to the PC are just ports from the console when not that long ago consoles were getting PC ports.

    The only downside to the console + hardcore gamers is your gaming pattern may cost you a fortune. A single player game on the latest gen console can cost $50 - $100 per game. Depending on how quickly you get through the games you could be spending alot of money per year. It was for this reason I have always been such a big MMO gamer. Lots of content for a fraction of the cost of other hobbies. As of late though I have been growing tired of the current generation of MMO's as nobody seems to want to reinvent the wheel.


    The only uses I get out of my PC now are playing MMO's and visiting forums. I can do everything else I want to do on my console.

    Well that's my rant over and done with.

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    Oh Noes Its The Forum Police

  • ForumfallForumfall Member Posts: 570

    Well what bothers me isn't that people have different taste. It's those stereotypes and that stupid elitism coming mostly from the pc folks. Assuming that console players are drooling kids with adhd. I have noticed that most pc gamers you meet in mmos have no bloody clue about their own pc or other technical topics so the idea that pc gamers are all smart tech nerds is a load of bull...

     

    I would not want to miss out on the awesome console exclusves. A console is cheap and you have a tv anyway so what would you lose?

  • PrecusorPrecusor Member UncommonPosts: 3,589
    Originally posted by Forumfall


    Well what bothers me isn't that people have different taste. It's those stereotypes and that stupid elitism coming mostly from the pc folks. Assuming that console players are drooling kids with adhd. I have noticed that most pc gamers you meet in mmos have no bloody clue about their own pc or other technical topics so the idea that pc gamers are all smart tech nerds is a load of bull...
     

    PC gamers are just talking bs imho.

    www.youtube.com/watch

     

  • TryggviTryggvi Member Posts: 83

    I just really hate controllers.  The last controller I could tolerate was the Super Nintendo controller.

  • NarugNarug Member UncommonPosts: 630
    Originally posted by Ginaz


    One of the big reasons consoles are so popular, price, is a result of the companies that make them taking a huge loss on them.  Microsoft and Sony have never made any money from the consoles themselves.  The way they make money is on licensing fees they charge to the developers of the games.  Ever wonder why games cost $10 or more for the console than for the pc?  Thats why.  If they charged a price that actually reflected what it cost to make a 360 or PS3, I guarantee they would lose a lot of people.  Console prices are kept artificially low.  If this wasn't the case, consoles would cost just as much, or more, than a good pc gaming rig.
    As for the quality of games, well, part of the reason for this is, esp. recently, many pc games are nothing more than ports of their console counterpart.  Little to no effort is put into improving them for the pc (better graphics, no check point saves, etc).  Developers today aren't taking full advantage of what the pc can do because they're developing for consoles first and foremost, which limits a lot they can do.  Ever wonder why they're aren't many DX10 games available?  Because theres no real incentive for developers to do so when consoles can't take advantage of it.  So often what we get is instead of bringing consoles up to or close to the pc experience, pc gamers are brought down to the console level and console gamers are stuck in a rut.  Thats bad for all gamers, pc and console alike.
     

    You're going to be dissapointed if you read PC Gamer's December 2009 issue. They're pushing for an increase price of PC Games for revitalizing the PC industry.

    If they pushed for the industry with Vista then there's a possible for an attempt being made here too.

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  • adoniskevadoniskev Member Posts: 92

    Its interesting that, "CONSOLE," games are made using a, "PC."  Now thats irony for you...:P

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,593
    Originally posted by Gameloading

    Originally posted by Robsolf


    For hardcore gaming, the PC is the cheaper route... yes, I said it.  Hear me out:


    You can spend 800 bucks on a pc and get current technology that runs current games maxed.  For the next 4 years of its life cycle, you may have to replace the vid card once or twice or a few other components, and each time, you'll get a significant improvement in graphic experience before it's time to overhaul.  And when you overhaul, you'll have useful parts from your current machine that will save you money rebuilding.


    A console will cost you anywhere from $200-400(assuming you don't buy first thing) depending on what you get.  It's obsoletion cycle is a bit longer; 6-7 years generally, but in the last half of that cycle, it becomes vastly inferior to the PC experience.  Then, eventually, you need a whole new console.


    But hey, still, the console is cheaper for the hardcore gamer, right?  Wrong.


    It's not all about the gaming system, as most people should know due to this current generation of consoles.  You need a MONITOR.


    For a big screen PC experience, you need a 22-24" monitor, which will cost you 150-300 bucks.


    For a comparable big screen console game experience, anything under 52" inches is inadequate, lest you have a hallway for a gaming room.  That means a bottom floor of about $1600.


    For me, consoles have only one positive that a PC will probably never touch.  In-room personal multiplayer gaming.  This, I think, is a big reason why the Wii is so successful; because it milks this advantage for everything its got; but the same goes for all consoles.  Rock band for PC would be crap.  Tekken for PC would be silly.  Don't even get me started on Virtual Bowling...


    PC's still rule the single player experience; but no mate is gonna and watch over your shoulder as you play Dragon Age on PC.

    Not really. The argument you need a 1600 bucks TV for modern day gaming is complete nonsense. You can do just fine with a 300 or 400 dollar tv, besides most households already own a tv so it's a bit silly to included in the price. Besides, you can hook up consoles to monitors, making your whole point irrelevant.

    Consoles also dominate the single player experience by the way.

    People like Poopystuff make me laugh. The keyword is can. Yes, a high end PC can do more than a consoles if there were actually any developers taking advantage of it. There simply aren't any left because very few people are willing to buy a high end gaming pc. Result is that developers focus on mid end pcs.

    The average PC game looks very comparable to the average console game. On top of that, Console games are simply better. If you go to gamerankings and check the all time best, as in highest rated games, the top positions are dominated by multiplatform games and console exclusive games.



    I think you missed the bit where I referred to HARD CORE gaming.  If you think reusing your 27" 240 line crt tv works for hardcore gaming, well... I guess you'll save alot of money.  Let me save you more and recommend you stick with your playstation 2.

    But to get the kind of viewing experience you'd get from a PC's 22" LCD, you'll need, at very least, a 48" TV or you'll need a seat right in front of it.

    the only time a console game looks comparable to PC is if that PC game was ported from console.  And THAT's if your console is running through a 1080P TV.  If not, it's already inferior.  And, seeing as how 1080P TV's have only been reasonably priced(and common) for a couple years, that blows your whole "can't count the TV cuz you just reuse your old one" premise.

    Nowadays, 22" monitors run 1680x1050 res, and most vid cards today over $100 can run that resolution with everthing maxxed.  That's comparable to 1080P.  That's also a bottom line system; go to a bigger monitor, which is higher res, and you're way ahead of the consoles once again.  Tack onto that advancements in GPU and visual technology and coding every year, and consoles limitations get more and more blatant.

    Let's use the next generation of gaming tech for example.  true 3d technology.  Actual depth of field graphics.  For PC, you'll probably need a new vid card and a 3d monitor.  What will your PS3/Xbox360 need?  At very least, a new, 3d ready TV.  Possibly, you'll need a new console.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,593
    Originally posted by Precusor

    Originally posted by Forumfall


    Well what bothers me isn't that people have different taste. It's those stereotypes and that stupid elitism coming mostly from the pc folks. Assuming that console players are drooling kids with adhd. I have noticed that most pc gamers you meet in mmos have no bloody clue about their own pc or other technical topics so the idea that pc gamers are all smart tech nerds is a load of bull...
     

    PC gamers are just talking bs imho.

    www.youtube.com/watch

     



    LOL!  Awesome!

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  • ZebladeZeblade Member UncommonPosts: 931

    Consoles are not crying glory.. you need to read more. Their doing worse.

    as for "The risk of piracy on a console is minimal, at best" HAHA man you REALLY need to read more.

    As for pirating.. man we all do something in this life and so you dont pirate a game .so you say ." I may lie on my taxes, speeding tickets, lie to my boss, cheat, lie to my spouse, say I am A REAL GIRL in WOW. blah blah. but I dont pirate games!" lol..

     

    The console is not going anywhere nor the PC. Things are going to change just not the way you see it.

  • BlackWizardsBlackWizards Member Posts: 173
    Originally posted by gauge2k3


    I am a loyal PC gamer.  I make my own machines.  I have a degree in computer science.  I know my way around these puppies inside and out.
    I keep seeing these arguements by console gamers saying the PC is on the way out and by PC gamers saying that they are not.  I just want to take some time and talk about that from a technical standpoint.
    Consoles are computers.  Just let that settle for a moment.  Ok, breathe.  Consoles have always been computers.  It doesn't have an ATX tower w/ mouse and keyboard.  But it does have a CPU, RAM, a hard drive, a DVD ROM ( or blueray depending on your preference ).  It's all there.  The ps3 even lets you install other operating systems on it natively.  To say PC's are on the way is not entirely correct.  Shifting might be a better word.  PC's will always have a place, and a loyal following.  Add a mouse "controller" and a keyboard "controller" and you have a computer ready to go.  You would think most would know this by now looking at some of the games ported directly from PC to gaming consoles.
     
    I am going to look at it the other way now.  Time for PC users to hear some reality too.
     
    The market is shifting.  Breath now. :)  There are several reasons for this.  Unified development kits for consoles means easier development and faster production.  A console is 1 system.  They don't have to add support for X number of GFX cards, Y number of OS's, and 2 CPU's.  Everything is set on a console.  Another major factor is piracy.  Yes it happens on consoles, but it is RAMPANT on PC's.  I could write an entire forum about my hatred for software pirates.  All it would get are some lame excuses why they are entitled to free stuff.  It is stealing, end of story.  The risk of piracy on a console is minimal, at best.  All these factors are contributing to a shift into the console markets.
     
    Now the last part.  The consoles guys are screaming glory.
     
    It won't last forever.  It will even out and shift.  Just as, if the mac gets more popular it will see more viruses, so to will the consoles have more pirating tools as they get more popular.  Then people will demand options for their consoles.  Sony and Microsoft will want to be the first to offer optional configurations of hardware.  Then the development time, piracy, it all catches up to PC's.
     
    In conclusion, the shift to consoles is happening.  Anyone can see it.  However, it will not last forever.  Thoughts?

     

    Eh... The shift is already moving back to PC. More and more console gamers are getting pc's, because a cheap gaming pc is not much more than a console, and if you already have a pc, upgrading it to game is much cheaper than a console. PC gaming will never die, though it could start to suck really bad and be basically the same a console gaming (in which case it should of just died.) PC gaming will die when western civilization falls, until then people will be playing games on pcs I promise you.

  • SarykSaryk Member UncommonPosts: 476
    Originally posted by BlackWizards

    Originally posted by gauge2k3


    I am a loyal PC gamer.  I make my own machines.  I have a degree in computer science.  I know my way around these puppies inside and out.
    I keep seeing these arguements by console gamers saying the PC is on the way out and by PC gamers saying that they are not.  I just want to take some time and talk about that from a technical standpoint.
    Consoles are computers.  Just let that settle for a moment.  Ok, breathe.  Consoles have always been computers.  It doesn't have an ATX tower w/ mouse and keyboard.  But it does have a CPU, RAM, a hard drive, a DVD ROM ( or blueray depending on your preference ).  It's all there.  The ps3 even lets you install other operating systems on it natively.  To say PC's are on the way is not entirely correct.  Shifting might be a better word.  PC's will always have a place, and a loyal following.  Add a mouse "controller" and a keyboard "controller" and you have a computer ready to go.  You would think most would know this by now looking at some of the games ported directly from PC to gaming consoles.
     
    I am going to look at it the other way now.  Time for PC users to hear some reality too.
     
    The market is shifting.  Breath now. :)  There are several reasons for this.  Unified development kits for consoles means easier development and faster production.  A console is 1 system.  They don't have to add support for X number of GFX cards, Y number of OS's, and 2 CPU's.  Everything is set on a console.  Another major factor is piracy.  Yes it happens on consoles, but it is RAMPANT on PC's.  I could write an entire forum about my hatred for software pirates.  All it would get are some lame excuses why they are entitled to free stuff.  It is stealing, end of story.  The risk of piracy on a console is minimal, at best.  All these factors are contributing to a shift into the console markets.
     
    Now the last part.  The consoles guys are screaming glory.
     
    It won't last forever.  It will even out and shift.  Just as, if the mac gets more popular it will see more viruses, so to will the consoles have more pirating tools as they get more popular.  Then people will demand options for their consoles.  Sony and Microsoft will want to be the first to offer optional configurations of hardware.  Then the development time, piracy, it all catches up to PC's.
     
    In conclusion, the shift to consoles is happening.  Anyone can see it.  However, it will not last forever.  Thoughts?

     

    Eh... The shift is already moving back to PC. More and more console gamers are getting pc's, because a cheap gaming pc is not much more than a console, and if you already have a pc, upgrading it to game is much cheaper than a console. PC gaming will never die, though it could start to suck really bad and be basically the same a console gaming (in which case it should of just died.) PC gaming will die when western civilization falls, until then people will be playing games on pcs I promise you.

     

    If every dev quit making PC games today. Tomorrow would be a brand new batch of devs making new PC games. Never underestimate the power of money and/or greed.

  • vinwieselvinwiesel Member Posts: 114

    The gaming industry is pushing towards consoles because they offer tighter control of their content.  The consumer may be driven to consoles, but is not choosing it.  A mac is basically a console, and that is why it is less prone to viruses and hacks.  It is locked down with half the features and double the price.  Viruses are designed for PC's because that's where the money is.  Business accounts, personal finance, gaming accounts, all can be stolen from PC's.  All you can steal from macs are videos of boys with black hair prancing around in tight pants. 

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690

    As far as what is better, they both are good systems to play on but the future of mmos will be on the console. There are only 2 mmos on the console right now, FFXI and Phantasy Star Online but eventually there will be more because they are easier to program for and there is less competition for mmos on the consoles compared to the pc platform. Xbox live has over 12 million members and PSN  has a ton themselves. That is probably over 20 million console players to introduce mmos to and for devs to make a ton of money.  The pc is a great platform but more complicated to makes games on.

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