Originally posted by grandpagamer Once again its ok if Blizz sticks it in your ass but by God SOE or Turbine better not try that shit.
No, I hate the RMT in wow just as much as any other company, but somehow I expected you to ignore when I say that and continue to take my comments out of context or misrepresent what I do say into something you want to think I say. Why don't you read the entire thread before trying to make whatever point you think it is you are making.
Also, I was discussion the gaming population as a whole in regards to why wow sells for the price it does, not my individual opinion on what the price should be. For example, I can say wow is the best selling mmo on the market due to player demand. That is stating a fact about game sales and not representing my opinion on RMT, which is something you seem to have difficulty telling the difference between.
The only thing that is once again is you.
Sorry, I thought you were pointing out how it was ok for Blizz to charge new price for an ancient game just because they can. I should have known you wouldnt say anything sycophantic, I guess I had you confused with a fanboy who will defend Blizz at every turn. Nice how you take the quote without the context i was replying too.
Originally posted by grandpagamer Once again its ok if Blizz sticks it in your ass but by God SOE or Turbine better not try that shit.
No, I hate the RMT in wow just as much as any other company, but somehow I expected you to ignore when I say that and continue to take my comments out of context or misrepresent what I do say into something you want to think I say. Why don't you read the entire thread before trying to make whatever point you think it is you are making.
Also, I was discussion the gaming population as a whole in regards to why wow sells for the price it does, not my individual opinion on what the price should be. For example, I can say wow is the best selling mmo on the market due to player demand. That is stating a fact about game sales and not representing my opinion on RMT, which is something you seem to have difficulty telling the difference between.
The only thing that is once again is you.
WOW sells for the price it does because of SOE and EQ,Blizzard copied the game and the pricing,Blizzard is too afraid to think for themselves,otherwise we would have seen Starcraft 2 out years ago,they are chicken shits.
Blizzard copied SOE's charity moves and they copied RMT,they love the fact that SOE moves first,it allows them to be shrouded to the blind anyhow,they don't fool me.
Blizzard just like Vivendi has a TON of overhead,their profit margin i would expect is quite low,this is why they continue to be afraid to do anything ambitious.Remember Vivendi tried to sell Blizzard for much under the going rate,and NOBODY wanted it,so that tells you what their piers think of Blizzard's quality.I am sure anyone would buy it now,just because of WOW,but not for their staff or structure,they are a wasteful bunch of spenders.
Square Enix has 8 gaming divisions covering ALL genres and platforms,what the heck does Blizzard do with all their overhead to justify such large spenditures?Oh ya they bought the rights to Redneck Rampage ROFLMAO,money well spent ,a real class act Blizzard is lol.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I don't know why people seem shocked by this or disgusted that people will buy the pets. Every year after Blizzcon the goodie bags that people get end up on Ebay and sell for hundreds just so that people can get the special pet or in game item that Blizzard is giving away that year.
Activision is just responding to what is obviously a desire to have vanity pets in the game.
Originally posted by grandpagamer Once again its ok if Blizz sticks it in your ass but by God SOE or Turbine better not try that shit.
No, I hate the RMT in wow just as much as any other company, but somehow I expected you to ignore when I say that and continue to take my comments out of context or misrepresent what I do say into something you want to think I say. Why don't you read the entire thread before trying to make whatever point you think it is you are making.
Also, I was discussion the gaming population as a whole in regards to why wow sells for the price it does, not my individual opinion on what the price should be. For example, I can say wow is the best selling mmo on the market due to player demand. That is stating a fact about game sales and not representing my opinion on RMT, which is something you seem to have difficulty telling the difference between.
The only thing that is once again is you.
WOW sells for the price it does because of SOE and EQ,Blizzard copied the game and the pricing,Blizzard is too afraid to think for themselves,otherwise we would have seen Starcraft 2 out years ago,they are chicken shits.
Blizzard copied SOE's charity moves and they copied RMT,they love the fact that SOE moves first,it allows them to be shrouded to the blind anyhow,they don't fool me.
Blizzard just like Vivendi has a TON of overhead,their profit margin i would expect is quite low,this is why they continue to be afraid to do anything ambitious.Remember Vivendi tried to sell Blizzard for much under the going rate,and NOBODY wanted it,so that tells you what their piers think of Blizzard's quality.I am sure anyone would buy it now,just because of WOW,but not for their staff or structure,they are a wasteful bunch of spenders.
Square Enix has 8 gaming divisions covering ALL genres and platforms,what the heck does Blizzard do with all their overhead to justify such large spenditures?Oh ya they bought the rights to Redneck Rampage ROFLMAO,money well spent ,a real class act Blizzard is lol.
I don't know why people seem shocked by this or disgusted that people will buy the pets. Every year after Blizzcon the goodie bags that people get end up on Ebay and sell for hundreds just so that people can get the special pet or in game item that Blizzard is giving away that year.
Activision is just responding to what is obviously a desire to have vanity pets in the game.
Exactly. If people will spend hundreds on pixel pet, someone will supply it. It may come as a shock to folks but I dont blame Blizz for this I blame the morons who continue to spend money on this stuff.
I don't know why people seem shocked by this or disgusted that people will buy the pets. Every year after Blizzcon the goodie bags that people get end up on Ebay and sell for hundreds just so that people can get the special pet or in game item that Blizzard is giving away that year.
Activision is just responding to what is obviously a desire to have vanity pets in the game.
Exactly. If people will spend hundreds on pixel pet, someone will supply it. It may come as a shock to folks but I dont blame Blizz for this I blame the morons who continue to spend money on this stuff.
It was Blizzards card game that prompted them to sell these in-game pets. I think its genius that they used the card game as a marketing tool to see if there was interest in things like RMT pets etc. They found that they were selling more cards to people who just strictly wanted the loot cards than to the people actually playing the card game. People were, and still are, spending hundreds of real life dollars in hopes to get things like the spectral tiger mount etc.
However, lets open the box shall we? An MMO in itself, is nothing more than a virtual non-reality. We spend money to be a part of this virtual world. We spend money to have this toon that has this flashy gear, killer mounts, cool titles etc.. In the end, without micro transactions, we're spending money for a lot of virtual goods every month and when we decide to pay month to month and buy the box itself. We do this to have fun. Trust me, when you're in game and someone has one of these pets theyre not crucified for purchasing them. Overall people really enjoy them, and they have fun with them.
At the end of the day, thats why we play MMO's and thats why each and every one of us PAYS to be a part of these worlds.
Like it or not, you ALL pay for virtual stuff.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Originally posted by Goronian Ya know... Let's end this debate between you and me. You do make good points and, to an extent, I can agree with you. However, this won't cahnge my mind, or yours, for that matter. Let's keep this civil and stop derailing the tread, shall we? On the topic at hand. I don't think Blizz is such in desperate need of money, to employ RMT. The game sells like hotcakes, both the boxes and the subs. However, seeing how it's Blizzard, I owuldn't put it past them. Either way, it's a bit too early fr this discussion. It can stop at two vanity pets or it could go further - the only way to know for sure is to wait. However, if they do include it, then I, most likely, will withdraw myself from the genre, since the floodgates will be open, and everyone will play "catch-up". I have enough money for RMT, but that's the money I would rather spend on non-digital things. 15$ a month, I can justify. Everything extra is money not spent usefully.
Sorry if it sounds like I was trying to change your mind, because that was not my intent and actually I understand and agree with you. As a consumer I would think it would be better to have 1 purchase for everything and I don't think blizzard needs the money.
However there are retailers involved also and blizzard can only set the suggested retail price. The demand and price also has something to do with how the game boxes are stocked and presented in the storefronts. Endcaps being more desirable display areas and things of that nature, but that goes well beyond my understanding.
I also agree with you are the rmt, which I hate and I don't use that word lightly.
Retailers are not involved in digital transactions. There is no reason for Blizzard to set the prices at digital retail this high, since, you know, it costs nothing for them at all.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Originally posted by Goronian Retailers are not involved in digital transactions. There is no reason for Blizzard to set the prices at digital retail this high, since, you know, it costs nothing for them at all.
Again, we are out of my area of knowledge, but I have heard retailers negotiate with developers over digital pricing, because it competes with them and they can order less or in some cases not order a product completely. Similar to what is happening with certain handheld games and digital only distribution.
I do see your point, but again it goes back around to player demand and if people are willing to pay that price then it isn't to high. Just like every other video game that sells for $50 and expansions for similar.
Originally posted by Goronian Retailers are not involved in digital transactions. There is no reason for Blizzard to set the prices at digital retail this high, since, you know, it costs nothing for them at all.
Again, we are out of my area of knowledge, but I have heard retailers negotiate with developers over digital pricing, because it competes with them and they can order less or in some cases not order a product completely. Similar to what is happening with certain handheld games and digital only distribution.
I do see your point, but again it goes back around to player demand and if people are willing to pay that price then it isn't to high. Just like every other video game that sells for $50 and expansions for similar.
Gamers need to get a backbone. I gon't see the price, as justified, so I refuse to pay it, simple as that. It's not even a question about WoW being "good" or "bad". WoW, simply say, does not have much more content, than other MMOs. In fact, if we go by server density, WoW has about the same server pop as other games, it's just that there's much more people on each one of them. And since I don't have RL friends who play it, nor do I think it's the best game in the genre, I have no reason to play it. Simple, isn't it?
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I absolutely love all of the "experts" who know exactly how much it costs to make something in a game. i also love the alarmists that point to a couple of pets as proof Blizzard is going to go full RMT in the future.
Get real people. I will say it once again: This can easily be compared to a tax that affects a small portion of WoW's players. There are some who will drop hard cash on items that do nothing in game but add fluff. If they want to enrich Blizzard and enable them to do even more game projects, I'm all for it.
WoW hasn't been affected by all the Ebaying of collector card goodies (goodies, I might add, that are still nothing more than fluff) that have been sold for years.
WoW is not going to kill the golden goose. The amount of money WoW brings in to Blizzard is mind-boggling and they won't screw with what works. They will continue to add things that make them money because, well, the investors expect to get paid. They will let players change factions, or races, or names, or servers. They will sell bright shiny objects to the masses because the masses will shell out cash for a kung-fu panda and justify the time artists, programmers and developers spend on said objects.
For some reason, it seems to be a crime for an MMO to actually make money. Too many posts rage that Blizzard shouldn't make any money (or any successful MMO for that matter). They cite greed as the reason anything is priced without one iota of evidence to back up their claim. Posters make claims without facts and justify their claims because "they've played MMOs since UO".
If just one person, ONE, would back up their claims with hard numbers...then and only then might they have a case. If you can come on here and state with authority and PROOF that it takes X amount of employee time, Y amount of employees and Z cost per hour of said employees to make a kung-fu panda ONLY THEN will I listen to your argument that Blizzard is greedy for charging $10 bucks for a fluff pet.
I'm not even going to add in all the ancillary costs such as promotion, transaction fees and the rest, just prove to those of us who read your drivel and rants that you are right in proclaiming Blizzards (or any MMOs) greed.
Otherwise, shut it.
I respect your right to voice your opinion and reserve the right to blow it right out of the water
Originally posted by Goronian Retailers are not involved in digital transactions. There is no reason for Blizzard to set the prices at digital retail this high, since, you know, it costs nothing for them at all.
Again, we are out of my area of knowledge, but I have heard retailers negotiate with developers over digital pricing, because it competes with them and they can order less or in some cases not order a product completely. Similar to what is happening with certain handheld games and digital only distribution.
I do see your point, but again it goes back around to player demand and if people are willing to pay that price then it isn't to high. Just like every other video game that sells for $50 and expansions for similar.
Gamers need to get a backbone. I gon't see the price, as justified, so I refuse to pay it, simple as that. It's not even a question about WoW being "good" or "bad". WoW, simply say, does not have much more content, than other MMOs. In fact, if we go by server density, WoW has about the same server pop as other games, it's just that there's much more people on each one of them. And since I don't have RL friends who play it, nor do I think it's the best game in the genre, I have no reason to play it. Simple, isn't it?
Again, it is fine that you don't like wow enough to pay the price (or even if it was cheaper). There is nothing wrong with that. I completely didn't understand your point about server population in regard to volume of content, but I will just assume you are correct about whatever it is you are trying to convey. Again, I am not saying you have to like the game or think it is worth the price. That is your opinion.
However I don't see it as something to stand up in arms about and everyone else needing to grow a backbone just to reinforce your opinion. The consumers of the market are determining the price and people are voting with their wallets. Not to mention there is very little in terms of competition to warcraft from other mmo companies. That is the real problem.
So what if the game isn't brand new. Monopoly and scrabble are not brand new games, but they command the same price as other brand new board games. I don't think people are spineless for paying comparable prices for those games, because they enjoy them.
Gamers need to get a backbone. I gon't see the price, as justified, so I refuse to pay it, simple as that. It's not even a question about WoW being "good" or "bad". WoW, simply say, does not have much more content, than other MMOs. In fact, if we go by server density, WoW has about the same server pop as other games, it's just that there's much more people on each one of them. And since I don't have RL friends who play it, nor do I think it's the best game in the genre, I have no reason to play it. Simple, isn't it?
LOL .. you don't see the price as justified and that has to apply to me? Get real. It is my $10 and I can do whatever with it that amuses it, including tearing it up into little pieces and laugh.
Assuming people are forced to pay is just plain STUPID. People pay because they find value and if it makes me a little happy that there is a cute kungfu panda following my toon around, who are you to disagree?
I'm glad they finally did it. Now I finally have an excuse to /ragequit the entire genre, should I ever want to. "Slippery slope" is a good term. You know, most MMOs cost around 50-60 dollars, the base game, right? And that's new ones, you can buy EQII for 20 bucks, and that's with everything included. WoW costs around 70 or 80, if you buy both expansions. Blizz has been milking you for a while now.
SOE could sell EQ2 for $80 if they wanted to try, but they know damn well they wouldn't sell at that price. Even at $20 the game doesn't sell, because it isn't very good.
Blizzard does not need to reduce the price of wow, because it has been on the top ten best selling list for something 5 years straight?
This is basic economics.
There's economics, and then there's me, the player. I don't like the game much to begin with, but spending 80-90 bucks on it? More, if I want to play with my girlfriend? No, thanks, I'd rather buy one copy of Tekken 6.
Heck, I bought HoMM collection for about 20 bucks and have much more fun, than I can ever have with most released MMOs, see?
By the way, WoW is not even a "new" MMO. Even relative successes, like FFXI sell their full collections at 20 bucks, since they respect their playerbase and don't try to squeeze every last cent out of them.
P.S. And I don't hate WoW. I just don't like any part of it, that's not lore or sound/visual design.
The old vintage sells for hundreds or thousands a bottle. They are not even new.
My mom's own distill sells for 50cents a bottle and lucky if she can sell one ever.
So by your conclusion, my mom's bottle is good.
If by your economics you judge things by the covering price alone, then no one should ever buy a property in the prestigious district. Everyone should erect a camp in the deserts. After all that is free.
I'm talking about "price being justified by the amount ef entetainment". You, however, can't grasp even that. Not much of a discussion, is it?
I'll repeat myself, WoW is overpriced. It's the single most expensive MMO on the market and it's five years old. There's no real justification for it, since, you know, most of their income comes from subscriptions. For the price of WoW I can buy myself a modern console game AND another MMORPG. Care to twist it again?
You are judging payment by others based on your assessment of entertainment value. You are telling everyone else that you do not like WoW so they should not be paying so much for WoW. You are forcing your own single person view on millions of others, none of them you know in person. You, howvever, cannot grasp even that. Not much of a discussion, is it?
I'll repeat myself, WoW means different to different people. It is a game as it means to each gamer. Whether it is 5 years old or new means nothing, if it is fun to 5million or 11 million, it is worth the sub for these people. For the price of WoW, I can get a game that has a lot of different little games inside and to me its worth more than any of the stupid console games out there. So? Care to twist it again?
I'm glad they finally did it. Now I finally have an excuse to /ragequit the entire genre, should I ever want to. "Slippery slope" is a good term. You know, most MMOs cost around 50-60 dollars, the base game, right? And that's new ones, you can buy EQII for 20 bucks, and that's with everything included. WoW costs around 70 or 80, if you buy both expansions. Blizz has been milking you for a while now.
SOE could sell EQ2 for $80 if they wanted to try, but they know damn well they wouldn't sell at that price. Even at $20 the game doesn't sell, because it isn't very good.
Blizzard does not need to reduce the price of wow, because it has been on the top ten best selling list for something 5 years straight?
This is basic economics.
There's economics, and then there's me, the player. I don't like the game much to begin with, but spending 80-90 bucks on it? More, if I want to play with my girlfriend? No, thanks, I'd rather buy one copy of Tekken 6.
Heck, I bought HoMM collection for about 20 bucks and have much more fun, than I can ever have with most released MMOs, see?
By the way, WoW is not even a "new" MMO. Even relative successes, like FFXI sell their full collections at 20 bucks, since they respect their playerbase and don't try to squeeze every last cent out of them.
P.S. And I don't hate WoW. I just don't like any part of it, that's not lore or sound/visual design.
The old vintage sells for hundreds or thousands a bottle. They are not even new.
My mom's own distill sells for 50cents a bottle and lucky if she can sell one ever.
So by your conclusion, my mom's bottle is good.
If by your economics you judge things by the covering price alone, then no one should ever buy a property in the prestigious district. Everyone should erect a camp in the deserts. After all that is free.
I'm talking about "price being justified by the amount ef entetainment". You, however, can't grasp even that. Not much of a discussion, is it?
I'll repeat myself, WoW is overpriced. It's the single most expensive MMO on the market and it's five years old. There's no real justification for it, since, you know, most of their income comes from subscriptions. For the price of WoW I can buy myself a modern console game AND another MMORPG. Care to twist it again?
You are judging payment by others based on your assessment of entertainment value. You are telling everyone else that you do not like WoW so they should not be paying so much for WoW. You are forcing your own single person view on millions of others, none of them you know in person. You, howvever, cannot grasp even that. Not much of a discussion, is it?
I'll repeat myself, WoW means different to different people. It is a game as it means to each gamer. Whether it is 5 years old or new means nothing, if it is fun to 5million or 11 million, it is worth the sub for these people. For the price of WoW, I can get a game that has a lot of different little games inside and to me its worth more than any of the stupid console games out there. So? Care to twist it again?
Nope. If you like it, knock yourself out. I just don't think it's a good usiness practice, that's all.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I'm talking about "price being justified by the amount ef entetainment". You, however, can't grasp even that. Not much of a discussion, is it? I'll repeat myself, WoW is overpriced. It's the single most expensive MMO on the market and it's five years old. There's no real justification for it, since, you know, most of their income comes from subscriptions. For the price of WoW I can buy myself a modern console game AND another MMORPG. Care to twist it again?
Supply and demand. Demand for World of Warcraft is still amongt the highest sought after PC video games in the world for 5 years. The price is justified by the fact that people are willing to pay that price. People are no longer willing to pay $50-80 for other mmos, so they are forced to lower prices. Those are things dictated by the customers, not the companies.
If you think that has no connection to the enjoyment factor people find in the mmos they purchase then you are only deceiving yourself. Honestly you have answered your own question, but you don't seem to recognize it.
Actually, the basic enjoyment of WoW as it is now can be attributed to two factors - popuilarity and diverse playerbase, that has to include someone you know, who could hook you up. Snowball effect, heard of it? I know a lot of people, who either don't know about other MMOs, or refuse to try it, since "I have a level 80 hawt elf here and all my friends are here, what more do I need?"
For me the price is not justified, since I enjoy other games more. That's basic economy for you as well.
Actually, if you think about it, you even got the basic economy wrong. "Supply and demand" - the more there is something of, the easier it is to get, the less valuable and expensive it can get. Since WoW will soon be sold in tobacco shops, I don't see the price as justified at all.
Your idea of demand and supply is wrong.
Demand means the quantity people will buy at a price. Now priced at $whatever, Blizzard has been able to maintain top sales of the item. Meaning there is enough demand from gamers to justify that price.
Supply brings down prices, meaning competitive supply from other suppliers will potentially lower the price of WoW if they are good enough. Copies of WoW =/= supply, churning out 5 million copies of the next expansion does not necessarily lower the price of it, if there are >5 million gamers waiting to buy at the price Blizz sets. Read your books before talking nonsense about supply, supply = quantity supplied by each and every producer at different price levels. That WoW copies can be sold in public toilet means they have good distribution network, making potential demand much easier to be realised, people do not have to climb the Himalaya to buy it. It does not mean WoW copy sold is walmart is competing with the copy being sold in my store. Both copies sold for $XX and you can buy one anywhere on earth.
For you the price is not justified. Thank you, acknowledged and it ended there. For a few million, it is worth, and money is flowing out of the millions' pockets. End of discussion.
Your knowledge of economics, however, is totally wrong.
I'm talking about "price being justified by the amount ef entetainment". You, however, can't grasp even that. Not much of a discussion, is it? I'll repeat myself, WoW is overpriced. It's the single most expensive MMO on the market and it's five years old. There's no real justification for it, since, you know, most of their income comes from subscriptions. For the price of WoW I can buy myself a modern console game AND another MMORPG. Care to twist it again?
Supply and demand. Demand for World of Warcraft is still amongt the highest sought after PC video games in the world for 5 years. The price is justified by the fact that people are willing to pay that price. People are no longer willing to pay $50-80 for other mmos, so they are forced to lower prices. Those are things dictated by the customers, not the companies.
If you think that has no connection to the enjoyment factor people find in the mmos they purchase then you are only deceiving yourself. Honestly you have answered your own question, but you don't seem to recognize it.
Actually, the basic enjoyment of WoW as it is now can be attributed to two factors - popuilarity and diverse playerbase, that has to include someone you know, who could hook you up. Snowball effect, heard of it? I know a lot of people, who either don't know about other MMOs, or refuse to try it, since "I have a level 80 hawt elf here and all my friends are here, what more do I need?"
For me the price is not justified, since I enjoy other games more. That's basic economy for you as well.
Actually, if you think about it, you even got the basic economy wrong. "Supply and demand" - the more there is something of, the easier it is to get, the less valuable and expensive it can get. Since WoW will soon be sold in tobacco shops, I don't see the price as justified at all.
Your idea of demand and supply is wrong.
Demand means the quantity people will buy at a price. Now priced at $whatever, Blizzard has been able to maintain top sales of the item. Meaning there is enough demand from gamers to justify that price.
Supply brings down prices, meaning competitive supply from other suppliers will potentially lower the price of WoW if they are good enough. Copies of WoW =/= supply, churning out 5 million copies of the next expansion does not necessarily lower the price of it, if there are >5 million gamers waiting to buy at the price Blizz sets. Read your books before talking nonsense about supply, supply = quantity supplied by each and every producer at different price levels. That WoW copies can be sold in public toilet means they have good distribution network, making potential demand much easier to be realised, people do not have to climb the Himalaya to buy it. It does not mean WoW copy sold is walmart is competing with the copy being sold in my store. Both copies sold for $XX and you can buy one anywhere on earth.
For you the price is not justified. Thank you, acknowledged and it ended there. For a few million, it is worth, and money is flowing out of the millions' pockets. End of discussion.
Your knowledge of economics, however, is totally wrong.
Yes, I was wrong with economy. That's why I, probably, would neve make a good businessman.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
the crux of the matter is while the rmt only extends to vanity/cosmetic items it really has very little effect on the game . ok it shows blizzard up to be what a lot of us thought they ve been for years but their greed is nt any different from any other corporation . the big question is how far will they go .? personally i think they will extend these cash shops . firstly to mounts and then beyond proberbly xp boosts etc etc . much of whats happened in the last few years seamed unthinkable at the start . allowing players to have horde and alliance characters on the same server , faction switching and race changes . it wont be long before paid class changes . warcrafts utlimate legacy will proberbly be how not to handle an mmo long term because i think the way blizzard have handled this will effect how people will untimatly view whatever its successor is . blizzard do have a bad name now , not as a company that develops good games but as a company that badly manages those good games . still they ve made thier money what do they care if thier next 2 mmos are flops .
You think you think you think. And we should all go up in arms because you think. Is that the lesson today here?
blizzard has a bad name? You said so? So it must be true?
Any more crystal ball analsyis today? What is the biggest demon next?
No my friend. Not everybody is worried about what Blizz will sell in RMT 5 years down the road. We play as the game stands today, not worrying about whether the sky will fall tomorrow. Its only a game. The moment the game becomes less fun than another game, I will move. I do not need to call on Obama to send in the national guards, b/c there is a chance that sometime in the future, Blizz sells XP enhancing tokens.
Comments
Call me crazy, but It seems everyone here who is "disgusted" by this was already "disgusted" by WoW to begin with.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
No, I hate the RMT in wow just as much as any other company, but somehow I expected you to ignore when I say that and continue to take my comments out of context or misrepresent what I do say into something you want to think I say. Why don't you read the entire thread before trying to make whatever point you think it is you are making.
Also, I was discussion the gaming population as a whole in regards to why wow sells for the price it does, not my individual opinion on what the price should be. For example, I can say wow is the best selling mmo on the market due to player demand. That is stating a fact about game sales and not representing my opinion on RMT, which is something you seem to have difficulty telling the difference between.
The only thing that is once again is you.
Sorry, I thought you were pointing out how it was ok for Blizz to charge new price for an ancient game just because they can. I should have known you wouldnt say anything sycophantic, I guess I had you confused with a fanboy who will defend Blizz at every turn. Nice how you take the quote without the context i was replying too.
No, I hate the RMT in wow just as much as any other company, but somehow I expected you to ignore when I say that and continue to take my comments out of context or misrepresent what I do say into something you want to think I say. Why don't you read the entire thread before trying to make whatever point you think it is you are making.
Also, I was discussion the gaming population as a whole in regards to why wow sells for the price it does, not my individual opinion on what the price should be. For example, I can say wow is the best selling mmo on the market due to player demand. That is stating a fact about game sales and not representing my opinion on RMT, which is something you seem to have difficulty telling the difference between.
The only thing that is once again is you.
WOW sells for the price it does because of SOE and EQ,Blizzard copied the game and the pricing,Blizzard is too afraid to think for themselves,otherwise we would have seen Starcraft 2 out years ago,they are chicken shits.
Blizzard copied SOE's charity moves and they copied RMT,they love the fact that SOE moves first,it allows them to be shrouded to the blind anyhow,they don't fool me.
Blizzard just like Vivendi has a TON of overhead,their profit margin i would expect is quite low,this is why they continue to be afraid to do anything ambitious.Remember Vivendi tried to sell Blizzard for much under the going rate,and NOBODY wanted it,so that tells you what their piers think of Blizzard's quality.I am sure anyone would buy it now,just because of WOW,but not for their staff or structure,they are a wasteful bunch of spenders.
Square Enix has 8 gaming divisions covering ALL genres and platforms,what the heck does Blizzard do with all their overhead to justify such large spenditures?Oh ya they bought the rights to Redneck Rampage ROFLMAO,money well spent ,a real class act Blizzard is lol.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I don't know why people seem shocked by this or disgusted that people will buy the pets. Every year after Blizzcon the goodie bags that people get end up on Ebay and sell for hundreds just so that people can get the special pet or in game item that Blizzard is giving away that year.
Activision is just responding to what is obviously a desire to have vanity pets in the game.
No, I hate the RMT in wow just as much as any other company, but somehow I expected you to ignore when I say that and continue to take my comments out of context or misrepresent what I do say into something you want to think I say. Why don't you read the entire thread before trying to make whatever point you think it is you are making.
Also, I was discussion the gaming population as a whole in regards to why wow sells for the price it does, not my individual opinion on what the price should be. For example, I can say wow is the best selling mmo on the market due to player demand. That is stating a fact about game sales and not representing my opinion on RMT, which is something you seem to have difficulty telling the difference between.
The only thing that is once again is you.
WOW sells for the price it does because of SOE and EQ,Blizzard copied the game and the pricing,Blizzard is too afraid to think for themselves,otherwise we would have seen Starcraft 2 out years ago,they are chicken shits.
Blizzard copied SOE's charity moves and they copied RMT,they love the fact that SOE moves first,it allows them to be shrouded to the blind anyhow,they don't fool me.
Blizzard just like Vivendi has a TON of overhead,their profit margin i would expect is quite low,this is why they continue to be afraid to do anything ambitious.Remember Vivendi tried to sell Blizzard for much under the going rate,and NOBODY wanted it,so that tells you what their piers think of Blizzard's quality.I am sure anyone would buy it now,just because of WOW,but not for their staff or structure,they are a wasteful bunch of spenders.
Square Enix has 8 gaming divisions covering ALL genres and platforms,what the heck does Blizzard do with all their overhead to justify such large spenditures?Oh ya they bought the rights to Redneck Rampage ROFLMAO,money well spent ,a real class act Blizzard is lol.
The Hate is strong in this one.
Exactly. If people will spend hundreds on pixel pet, someone will supply it. It may come as a shock to folks but I dont blame Blizz for this I blame the morons who continue to spend money on this stuff.
Exactly. If people will spend hundreds on pixel pet, someone will supply it. It may come as a shock to folks but I dont blame Blizz for this I blame the morons who continue to spend money on this stuff.
It was Blizzards card game that prompted them to sell these in-game pets. I think its genius that they used the card game as a marketing tool to see if there was interest in things like RMT pets etc. They found that they were selling more cards to people who just strictly wanted the loot cards than to the people actually playing the card game. People were, and still are, spending hundreds of real life dollars in hopes to get things like the spectral tiger mount etc.
However, lets open the box shall we? An MMO in itself, is nothing more than a virtual non-reality. We spend money to be a part of this virtual world. We spend money to have this toon that has this flashy gear, killer mounts, cool titles etc.. In the end, without micro transactions, we're spending money for a lot of virtual goods every month and when we decide to pay month to month and buy the box itself. We do this to have fun. Trust me, when you're in game and someone has one of these pets theyre not crucified for purchasing them. Overall people really enjoy them, and they have fun with them.
At the end of the day, thats why we play MMO's and thats why each and every one of us PAYS to be a part of these worlds.
Like it or not, you ALL pay for virtual stuff.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Sorry if it sounds like I was trying to change your mind, because that was not my intent and actually I understand and agree with you. As a consumer I would think it would be better to have 1 purchase for everything and I don't think blizzard needs the money.
However there are retailers involved also and blizzard can only set the suggested retail price. The demand and price also has something to do with how the game boxes are stocked and presented in the storefronts. Endcaps being more desirable display areas and things of that nature, but that goes well beyond my understanding.
I also agree with you are the rmt, which I hate and I don't use that word lightly.
Retailers are not involved in digital transactions. There is no reason for Blizzard to set the prices at digital retail this high, since, you know, it costs nothing for them at all.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Again, we are out of my area of knowledge, but I have heard retailers negotiate with developers over digital pricing, because it competes with them and they can order less or in some cases not order a product completely. Similar to what is happening with certain handheld games and digital only distribution.
I do see your point, but again it goes back around to player demand and if people are willing to pay that price then it isn't to high. Just like every other video game that sells for $50 and expansions for similar.
Again, we are out of my area of knowledge, but I have heard retailers negotiate with developers over digital pricing, because it competes with them and they can order less or in some cases not order a product completely. Similar to what is happening with certain handheld games and digital only distribution.
I do see your point, but again it goes back around to player demand and if people are willing to pay that price then it isn't to high. Just like every other video game that sells for $50 and expansions for similar.
Gamers need to get a backbone. I gon't see the price, as justified, so I refuse to pay it, simple as that. It's not even a question about WoW being "good" or "bad". WoW, simply say, does not have much more content, than other MMOs. In fact, if we go by server density, WoW has about the same server pop as other games, it's just that there's much more people on each one of them. And since I don't have RL friends who play it, nor do I think it's the best game in the genre, I have no reason to play it. Simple, isn't it?
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Blizzard has been RMT for years since you could always buy the collecters cards to get ingame pets and even mounts (the turtle).
this is true. Get used to it, especially if some of you plan on playing Knights of the Republic.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
I absolutely love all of the "experts" who know exactly how much it costs to make something in a game. i also love the alarmists that point to a couple of pets as proof Blizzard is going to go full RMT in the future.
Get real people. I will say it once again: This can easily be compared to a tax that affects a small portion of WoW's players. There are some who will drop hard cash on items that do nothing in game but add fluff. If they want to enrich Blizzard and enable them to do even more game projects, I'm all for it.
WoW hasn't been affected by all the Ebaying of collector card goodies (goodies, I might add, that are still nothing more than fluff) that have been sold for years.
WoW is not going to kill the golden goose. The amount of money WoW brings in to Blizzard is mind-boggling and they won't screw with what works. They will continue to add things that make them money because, well, the investors expect to get paid. They will let players change factions, or races, or names, or servers. They will sell bright shiny objects to the masses because the masses will shell out cash for a kung-fu panda and justify the time artists, programmers and developers spend on said objects.
For some reason, it seems to be a crime for an MMO to actually make money. Too many posts rage that Blizzard shouldn't make any money (or any successful MMO for that matter). They cite greed as the reason anything is priced without one iota of evidence to back up their claim. Posters make claims without facts and justify their claims because "they've played MMOs since UO".
If just one person, ONE, would back up their claims with hard numbers...then and only then might they have a case. If you can come on here and state with authority and PROOF that it takes X amount of employee time, Y amount of employees and Z cost per hour of said employees to make a kung-fu panda ONLY THEN will I listen to your argument that Blizzard is greedy for charging $10 bucks for a fluff pet.
I'm not even going to add in all the ancillary costs such as promotion, transaction fees and the rest, just prove to those of us who read your drivel and rants that you are right in proclaiming Blizzards (or any MMOs) greed.
Otherwise, shut it.
I respect your right to voice your opinion and reserve the right to blow it right out of the water
Again, we are out of my area of knowledge, but I have heard retailers negotiate with developers over digital pricing, because it competes with them and they can order less or in some cases not order a product completely. Similar to what is happening with certain handheld games and digital only distribution.
I do see your point, but again it goes back around to player demand and if people are willing to pay that price then it isn't to high. Just like every other video game that sells for $50 and expansions for similar.
Gamers need to get a backbone. I gon't see the price, as justified, so I refuse to pay it, simple as that. It's not even a question about WoW being "good" or "bad". WoW, simply say, does not have much more content, than other MMOs. In fact, if we go by server density, WoW has about the same server pop as other games, it's just that there's much more people on each one of them. And since I don't have RL friends who play it, nor do I think it's the best game in the genre, I have no reason to play it. Simple, isn't it?
Again, it is fine that you don't like wow enough to pay the price (or even if it was cheaper). There is nothing wrong with that. I completely didn't understand your point about server population in regard to volume of content, but I will just assume you are correct about whatever it is you are trying to convey. Again, I am not saying you have to like the game or think it is worth the price. That is your opinion.
However I don't see it as something to stand up in arms about and everyone else needing to grow a backbone just to reinforce your opinion. The consumers of the market are determining the price and people are voting with their wallets. Not to mention there is very little in terms of competition to warcraft from other mmo companies. That is the real problem.
So what if the game isn't brand new. Monopoly and scrabble are not brand new games, but they command the same price as other brand new board games. I don't think people are spineless for paying comparable prices for those games, because they enjoy them.
Gamers need to get a backbone. I gon't see the price, as justified, so I refuse to pay it, simple as that. It's not even a question about WoW being "good" or "bad". WoW, simply say, does not have much more content, than other MMOs. In fact, if we go by server density, WoW has about the same server pop as other games, it's just that there's much more people on each one of them. And since I don't have RL friends who play it, nor do I think it's the best game in the genre, I have no reason to play it. Simple, isn't it?
LOL .. you don't see the price as justified and that has to apply to me? Get real. It is my $10 and I can do whatever with it that amuses it, including tearing it up into little pieces and laugh.
Assuming people are forced to pay is just plain STUPID. People pay because they find value and if it makes me a little happy that there is a cute kungfu panda following my toon around, who are you to disagree?
SOE could sell EQ2 for $80 if they wanted to try, but they know damn well they wouldn't sell at that price. Even at $20 the game doesn't sell, because it isn't very good.
Blizzard does not need to reduce the price of wow, because it has been on the top ten best selling list for something 5 years straight?
This is basic economics.
There's economics, and then there's me, the player. I don't like the game much to begin with, but spending 80-90 bucks on it? More, if I want to play with my girlfriend? No, thanks, I'd rather buy one copy of Tekken 6.
Heck, I bought HoMM collection for about 20 bucks and have much more fun, than I can ever have with most released MMOs, see?
By the way, WoW is not even a "new" MMO. Even relative successes, like FFXI sell their full collections at 20 bucks, since they respect their playerbase and don't try to squeeze every last cent out of them.
P.S. And I don't hate WoW. I just don't like any part of it, that's not lore or sound/visual design.
The old vintage sells for hundreds or thousands a bottle. They are not even new.
My mom's own distill sells for 50cents a bottle and lucky if she can sell one ever.
So by your conclusion, my mom's bottle is good.
If by your economics you judge things by the covering price alone, then no one should ever buy a property in the prestigious district. Everyone should erect a camp in the deserts. After all that is free.
I'm talking about "price being justified by the amount ef entetainment". You, however, can't grasp even that. Not much of a discussion, is it?
I'll repeat myself, WoW is overpriced. It's the single most expensive MMO on the market and it's five years old. There's no real justification for it, since, you know, most of their income comes from subscriptions. For the price of WoW I can buy myself a modern console game AND another MMORPG. Care to twist it again?
You are judging payment by others based on your assessment of entertainment value. You are telling everyone else that you do not like WoW so they should not be paying so much for WoW. You are forcing your own single person view on millions of others, none of them you know in person. You, howvever, cannot grasp even that. Not much of a discussion, is it?
I'll repeat myself, WoW means different to different people. It is a game as it means to each gamer. Whether it is 5 years old or new means nothing, if it is fun to 5million or 11 million, it is worth the sub for these people. For the price of WoW, I can get a game that has a lot of different little games inside and to me its worth more than any of the stupid console games out there. So? Care to twist it again?
SOE could sell EQ2 for $80 if they wanted to try, but they know damn well they wouldn't sell at that price. Even at $20 the game doesn't sell, because it isn't very good.
Blizzard does not need to reduce the price of wow, because it has been on the top ten best selling list for something 5 years straight?
This is basic economics.
There's economics, and then there's me, the player. I don't like the game much to begin with, but spending 80-90 bucks on it? More, if I want to play with my girlfriend? No, thanks, I'd rather buy one copy of Tekken 6.
Heck, I bought HoMM collection for about 20 bucks and have much more fun, than I can ever have with most released MMOs, see?
By the way, WoW is not even a "new" MMO. Even relative successes, like FFXI sell their full collections at 20 bucks, since they respect their playerbase and don't try to squeeze every last cent out of them.
P.S. And I don't hate WoW. I just don't like any part of it, that's not lore or sound/visual design.
The old vintage sells for hundreds or thousands a bottle. They are not even new.
My mom's own distill sells for 50cents a bottle and lucky if she can sell one ever.
So by your conclusion, my mom's bottle is good.
If by your economics you judge things by the covering price alone, then no one should ever buy a property in the prestigious district. Everyone should erect a camp in the deserts. After all that is free.
I'm talking about "price being justified by the amount ef entetainment". You, however, can't grasp even that. Not much of a discussion, is it?
I'll repeat myself, WoW is overpriced. It's the single most expensive MMO on the market and it's five years old. There's no real justification for it, since, you know, most of their income comes from subscriptions. For the price of WoW I can buy myself a modern console game AND another MMORPG. Care to twist it again?
You are judging payment by others based on your assessment of entertainment value. You are telling everyone else that you do not like WoW so they should not be paying so much for WoW. You are forcing your own single person view on millions of others, none of them you know in person. You, howvever, cannot grasp even that. Not much of a discussion, is it?
I'll repeat myself, WoW means different to different people. It is a game as it means to each gamer. Whether it is 5 years old or new means nothing, if it is fun to 5million or 11 million, it is worth the sub for these people. For the price of WoW, I can get a game that has a lot of different little games inside and to me its worth more than any of the stupid console games out there. So? Care to twist it again?
Nope. If you like it, knock yourself out. I just don't think it's a good usiness practice, that's all.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Supply and demand. Demand for World of Warcraft is still amongt the highest sought after PC video games in the world for 5 years. The price is justified by the fact that people are willing to pay that price. People are no longer willing to pay $50-80 for other mmos, so they are forced to lower prices. Those are things dictated by the customers, not the companies.
If you think that has no connection to the enjoyment factor people find in the mmos they purchase then you are only deceiving yourself. Honestly you have answered your own question, but you don't seem to recognize it.
Actually, the basic enjoyment of WoW as it is now can be attributed to two factors - popuilarity and diverse playerbase, that has to include someone you know, who could hook you up. Snowball effect, heard of it? I know a lot of people, who either don't know about other MMOs, or refuse to try it, since "I have a level 80 hawt elf here and all my friends are here, what more do I need?"
For me the price is not justified, since I enjoy other games more. That's basic economy for you as well.
Actually, if you think about it, you even got the basic economy wrong. "Supply and demand" - the more there is something of, the easier it is to get, the less valuable and expensive it can get. Since WoW will soon be sold in tobacco shops, I don't see the price as justified at all.
Your idea of demand and supply is wrong.
Demand means the quantity people will buy at a price. Now priced at $whatever, Blizzard has been able to maintain top sales of the item. Meaning there is enough demand from gamers to justify that price.
Supply brings down prices, meaning competitive supply from other suppliers will potentially lower the price of WoW if they are good enough. Copies of WoW =/= supply, churning out 5 million copies of the next expansion does not necessarily lower the price of it, if there are >5 million gamers waiting to buy at the price Blizz sets. Read your books before talking nonsense about supply, supply = quantity supplied by each and every producer at different price levels. That WoW copies can be sold in public toilet means they have good distribution network, making potential demand much easier to be realised, people do not have to climb the Himalaya to buy it. It does not mean WoW copy sold is walmart is competing with the copy being sold in my store. Both copies sold for $XX and you can buy one anywhere on earth.
For you the price is not justified. Thank you, acknowledged and it ended there. For a few million, it is worth, and money is flowing out of the millions' pockets. End of discussion.
Your knowledge of economics, however, is totally wrong.
Supply and demand. Demand for World of Warcraft is still amongt the highest sought after PC video games in the world for 5 years. The price is justified by the fact that people are willing to pay that price. People are no longer willing to pay $50-80 for other mmos, so they are forced to lower prices. Those are things dictated by the customers, not the companies.
If you think that has no connection to the enjoyment factor people find in the mmos they purchase then you are only deceiving yourself. Honestly you have answered your own question, but you don't seem to recognize it.
Actually, the basic enjoyment of WoW as it is now can be attributed to two factors - popuilarity and diverse playerbase, that has to include someone you know, who could hook you up. Snowball effect, heard of it? I know a lot of people, who either don't know about other MMOs, or refuse to try it, since "I have a level 80 hawt elf here and all my friends are here, what more do I need?"
For me the price is not justified, since I enjoy other games more. That's basic economy for you as well.
Actually, if you think about it, you even got the basic economy wrong. "Supply and demand" - the more there is something of, the easier it is to get, the less valuable and expensive it can get. Since WoW will soon be sold in tobacco shops, I don't see the price as justified at all.
Your idea of demand and supply is wrong.
Demand means the quantity people will buy at a price. Now priced at $whatever, Blizzard has been able to maintain top sales of the item. Meaning there is enough demand from gamers to justify that price.
Supply brings down prices, meaning competitive supply from other suppliers will potentially lower the price of WoW if they are good enough. Copies of WoW =/= supply, churning out 5 million copies of the next expansion does not necessarily lower the price of it, if there are >5 million gamers waiting to buy at the price Blizz sets. Read your books before talking nonsense about supply, supply = quantity supplied by each and every producer at different price levels. That WoW copies can be sold in public toilet means they have good distribution network, making potential demand much easier to be realised, people do not have to climb the Himalaya to buy it. It does not mean WoW copy sold is walmart is competing with the copy being sold in my store. Both copies sold for $XX and you can buy one anywhere on earth.
For you the price is not justified. Thank you, acknowledged and it ended there. For a few million, it is worth, and money is flowing out of the millions' pockets. End of discussion.
Your knowledge of economics, however, is totally wrong.
Yes, I was wrong with economy. That's why I, probably, would neve make a good businessman.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
You think you think you think. And we should all go up in arms because you think. Is that the lesson today here?
blizzard has a bad name? You said so? So it must be true?
Any more crystal ball analsyis today? What is the biggest demon next?
No my friend. Not everybody is worried about what Blizz will sell in RMT 5 years down the road. We play as the game stands today, not worrying about whether the sky will fall tomorrow. Its only a game. The moment the game becomes less fun than another game, I will move. I do not need to call on Obama to send in the national guards, b/c there is a chance that sometime in the future, Blizz sells XP enhancing tokens.