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How can we make SoE sell Vanguard?

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  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Member Posts: 2,697
    Originally posted by Warjin


    I'ts a shame a game with this much to offer is being held back by lack of funds, from what I read if this game had the right team can do some damage to compitition.
    2 years ago no,even if fixed all the bugs in 1 week and had the best team it still would of failed, Why well because the system specs where 2 high for It's time, I would say maybe 10/15% could handle the specs 2 years ago.
    Hell man the time is now with Vanguard,the system specs fill a larger base nowdays and with all the WoW burnouts and soon to follow Aion, Vanguard could and should take the jump, But they lack funds, so I wonder what we could do to help, any thoughts?
    I would love for SoE to sell Vanguard to someone who will take better care of it, kind of sad really, Man if there where a Children and Youth for Mmos SoE would be in jail thats for sure lol.



     

    Anytime a game has a small player base there instantly isn't budget for advertising. The only thing that can be done is if the community likes the game they can spread the word and try to get a bigger community and hope to cross the threshold of when it becomes big enough to have an advertising budget again.

     

    People in the game I play (Asheron's Call) say the same thing but then none of them go out and talk about the game or invite others to come join, when that is more helpful then complaining that the company who has a budget to follow isn't willing to lose money on something that might not even come close to paying back. Advertising costs a lot, so if it's only going to bring in a couple hundred people who play for a month then it's not justified.

  • grandpagamergrandpagamer Member Posts: 2,221
    Originally posted by Daffid011

    Originally posted by strykr619

    Originally posted by Neopsych


    Damn Gamers seem to have shorter memories these days.
    VG would not even exist today if SOE had not bailed it out but I guess any credit that was due them, especially for those that got to keep their jobs, is long past its sel;l by date?
    If SOE drops VG who on earth would pick it up? Who would want to buy a non-established I.P. with no additional merchandise revenue coming in and in an industry where the first couple of months normally decide the long term appeal of a new game (or not). The best VG players can hope for is that SOE keep spending server space on this game because no one else is going to.
    This whole SOE is evil stuff is boring and shows how shallow some people are.

     +1 and this is comming from an ALPHA tester who played the game till 6 months later then came back again for a short stint a year later. VG was DoA until SoE gave Sigil funding. So stop acting like SoE is the bad guy , this game would have never launched if it wasn't for SoE. 

    Vanguard wasn't much better than DOA on its release if you really want to split hairs.  No one was done any favors by the condition vanguard was in when it was pushed out the door.  

     

    What exactly was vanguard saved from?  A swift death that would have been a minor story for a month.  Instead it has lingered long past any healthy semblance of an mmo and remains a constant reminder to any developer wanting to add a little sandbox to the theme park that they might end up like this nightmare.

     

    If the company that "saved" vanguard from becoming vaproware was not willing to correct the problems that afflicted the project for the previous 4 years then it should have died in development.  Handing a pile of money to a mismanaged project without correcting the problems only guarentees it will continue to fail.  Time and money were not the issues behind the failure of vanguard. 

     

    Does it make any sense for soe to spend money on a project that already failed and take no corrective measures to make sure it didn't continue spiraling down the toilet?  Would anyone posting here think that was a wise investment with their money? 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    No shit if they had let it die then those who do enjoy the game might just wander into WOW territory, Christ .

  • SignusMSignusM Member Posts: 2,225
    Originally posted by Fibsdk

    Originally posted by sebbonx


     I said SOE would help ruin the game, you mean they didn't?

     

    Considering it was already ruined prior to SoE taking over Vanguard i would say that's a clear NO

    I would rather play the buggy half finished version of Vanguard than the shadow of its former self Vanguard out now. 

     

     

    There is a very obvious thing that happened. SoE saw the potential of Vanguard, a game that targeted SoE's largest subscription base, EverQuest fans. SoE begins to publish the game. Then they cut off funding, forcing Sigil to release early. SoE gains publicity points by "bailing them out", fires most of the staff working on the game, then puts a skeleton crew to maintain what's left of the game, and slowly shape it into a slightly more sophisticated WoW clone. SoE still keeps its EQ numbers, and they got some good PR. 

     

    If another company took over Vanguard right now, and returned it to it's proper state, it would easily be the top PvE MMORPG on the market. Hell, the only thing keeping it from being the best PvE MMO right now, is how slowly the game is being added to, due to the lack of staff, and the lack of SoE advertising. EQ1 gets an expansion, but Vanguard doesn't ? It's VERY obvious they want the game to die.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945
    Originally posted by grandpagamer 
    No shit if they had let it die then those who do enjoy the game might just wander into WOW territory, Christ .

     

    You read this whole thread and that is all you were able to get from it?  Interesting.

  • gboostergbooster Member UncommonPosts: 712
    Originally posted by SignusM

    Originally posted by Fibsdk

    Originally posted by sebbonx


     I said SOE would help ruin the game, you mean they didn't?

     

    Considering it was already ruined prior to SoE taking over Vanguard i would say that's a clear NO

    I would rather play the buggy half finished version of Vanguard than the shadow of its former self Vanguard out now. 

     

     

    There is a very obvious thing that happened. SoE saw the potential of Vanguard, a game that targeted SoE's largest subscription base, EverQuest fans. SoE begins to publish the game. Then they cut off funding, forcing Sigil to release early. SoE gains publicity points by "bailing them out", fires most of the staff working on the game, then puts a skeleton crew to maintain what's left of the game, and slowly shape it into a slightly more sophisticated WoW clone. SoE still keeps its EQ numbers, and they got some good PR. 

     

    If another company took over Vanguard right now, and returned it to it's proper state, it would easily be the top PvE MMORPG on the market. Hell, the only thing keeping it from being the best PvE MMO right now, is how slowly the game is being added to, due to the lack of staff, and the lack of SoE advertising. EQ1 gets an expansion, but Vanguard doesn't ? It's VERY obvious they want the game to die.



     

    I agree, it is either sinister motives by SOE or they are just idiots, 50/50 possibility on that.

    This game had the potential to be best PVE game ever, but it is wayyy to late, it was way too late the day they released the unfinished bugged out crap that it was.  It is a shame, because if this game had some more time to develope and work out the kinks it really could have been awesome.

    What we have now is a lifesupport system crew for the game, it has less than 10k subs, and the only reason SOE even keeps it around is for their Station Pass.

    Would they sell it? Who would really buy it now? The game is going on 3 years old, and whatever potential it had to dominate the market is long gone.

  • Tutu2Tutu2 Member UncommonPosts: 572
    Originally posted by Daffid011

    Originally posted by M1sf1t


     

    Originally posted by Thillian

    Well that was the point why they bought it. So noone else could get it, improve it and compete to their precious Everquest franchise (with which is in direct competition).

     

    No they got it because Brad Mcquid sold it to them in order to cash out from this flop.

     

    You have described why Brad wanted to sell the game and I think that is accurate, but not why SOE wanted to BUY the game.

    I am sure every business owner would like to sell their failures, but why would a company invest in a failed project and not take measures to make sure they same failure did not repeat itself?   What purpose did their investment serve and further buying the game?  It isn't like soe made a real effort to make the game comnpetitive as a producer or a developer.

    Vanguard is in direct competition with Everquest 1 & 2, that is the main audience it appeals to. Imagine if the game fell into a sizeable, talented dev team that wasn't part of SOE it would take subs away from SOE for sure, better they nab it and do f*ck all with it then suffer a bigger blow. SOE themselves won't put any effort into it because why compete with its own audience, most of its players are in EQ 1 & 2. 

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945
    Originally posted by Tutu2 
    Vanguard is in direct competition with Everquest 1 & 2, that is the main audience it appeals to. Imagine if the game fell into a sizeable, talented dev team that wasn't part of SOE it would take subs away from SOE for sure, better they nab it and do f*ck all with it then suffer a bigger blow. SOE themselves won't put any effort into it because why compete with its own audience, most of its players are in EQ 1 & 2. 

     

    I am in total agreement with what you said and I think every bit of that makes more sense than soe investing in vanguard in some effort to turn it around.  

    It is hard to look at the inaction of soe to change the course of the game and come to any other conclusion.

  • SoludeSolude Member UncommonPosts: 691

    Its three years after release, three years of patching, things are better, things have been added, money has flown.

    The content arguement and expansion arguement is silly.  The average character level is 10, 10, say it again 10.  Why would they release more end game content to a game that can't retain players past 10?  As much as I'd like to love VG, its a very niche game that just doesn't run well enough for a lot of people, isn't focused enough to really grab a niche and isn't broad enough to appeal to the masses.

    VG was never a threat to EQ for the same reason EQ2 was never a threat to WoW.  Too different and too high of sys reqs for mass appeal.  Even today, mostly because of the engine's age, the best PCs can't play VG or EQ2 as intended without issue.  By that I mean raids, at balanced or better, above 24fps.

    Course I could be wrong but I'd like to hear from those that see where it was or could go explain with real examples why VG could reach say EQ2 numbers?

  • ya see if a horse breaks its leg you shoot it put it out of its misery..well they did in the old days ..well any ways vanguard was like a young stallion at launch yes maybe not so refined like a show horse but the pure power n freedom of the game made up for it..but cple yeras later vangaurd not that stallion anymore it just walks in a circle with a carrot tide to its head going where ever the EQ hardcore raiders  "aka casual need two rift ways in each chunk to raid players"  tell it to go

    if soe had to crunch some numbers they would shut down vangaurd but would never sell it vangaurd use to be the game to play now its full of holes and its just another game to beat

  • wootinwootin Member Posts: 259

    Sadly, I don't think SOE EVER lets anything out of it's clutches, no matter how horribly mangled :

    I've been hoping that they'd sell off Planetside for years now, and it hasn't happened. They're blabbing about a Planetside 2 even, and god knows, if it's SOE that does it, it'll probably have an in-game shop when you buy item cards to play against the other side to see who caps the tower :(

  • jroller99jroller99 Member Posts: 22

    if SOE would allow players that are on a trial to leave the isle of dawn then more people would stay. Isle take about a day to complete all content in it through all three spheres.  Thats not much of a trial.  The real product is the game after Isle of Dawn and trial players dont get to experience this. Those that do sub then find the starter towns empty, and the ability to find a group is nonexistent at that level and players end up leaving after a few days on the mainland.  Opening up the trial would allow the trial players to populate the other starting areas and experience more of the game,  thus maybe keeping more

  • Shoko_LiedShoko_Lied Member UncommonPosts: 2,193
    Originally posted by jroller99


    if SOE would allow players that are on a trial to leave the isle of dawn then more people would stay. Isle take about a day to complete all content in it through all three spheres.  Thats not much of a trial.  The real product is the game after Isle of Dawn and trial players dont get to experience this. Those that do sub then find the starter towns empty, and the ability to find a group is nonexistent at that level and players end up leaving after a few days on the mainland.  Opening up the trial would allow the trial players to populate the other starting areas and experience more of the game,  thus maybe keeping more



     

    Why make a noobie island, when the full game already has newbie starter areas! All having the island does is detatch it from the actual game, give false impressions, and litteraly CHOKE the influx of new players who could be in the full games start zones. Which kills any grouping aspect and basically kills any profit SOE could be looking for.

    Overall the trial island = Bad idea, and more harmfull than good.

  • SoludeSolude Member UncommonPosts: 691

    Couple of reasons for the trial isle.

    Its confined, its bug free and its a small download.

    The real game is spread out, read empty, buggy and a massive download.  Did they even fix the Raki starter quest of gathering, I think water or flowers?

    Anyway trial isle has a little bit of everything even graphically.  Some solo, some group, 2? dungeons...  If you did it one day, you need to get out more =P

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945
    Originally posted by Solude



    Course I could be wrong but I'd like to hear from those that see where it was or could go explain with real examples why VG could reach say EQ2 numbers?

     

    Vanguard, even with soe attached to it and general word that the game was in horrible shape, still sold over 200k copies which is EQ2 like numbers (at least back in 2007).  The common phrase about vanguard is that it is the real successor to everquest as said by many people.  If I recall right, someone on the EQ2 forums said EQ2 dropped by about 70k users when VG released.

     

    Perhaps those are not absolute examples you were looking for, but I don't think it is to hard to see that vanguards aim is directly at the everquest market and if the game had a better release it would not only have attracted more everquest players (and eq2 players), but I think it would have retained them as well.  It might have even attracted people who have sworn off soe games.  

     

    From a design standpoint (not delivery), vanguard is superior to eq2 in almost every aspect.  The game concepts and mechanics for the most part were solid and have changed very little over the last 3 years.  Better world, graphics, classes, combat, etc. 

    Compared that to EQ2 that has spent the last 5 years going through major changes and a lack of consistent direction trying to find its identity has lead to a very unstable experience.  It is almost like the devs try to grow the game by changing who the game is made for with each expansion. 

     

     

  • weslubowweslubow Member UncommonPosts: 163

    Ask them how much to sell the game.

  • SweetZoidSweetZoid Member Posts: 437

    Trial isle takes 2-3 hours to do.

  • noxiumnoxium Member Posts: 5

    Game should be made free with a micro-payments system.

     

    It's a wonderful game, but I play eq2 because I want to play a game where I might actually bump into someone when running around...  Or bundle it free with EQ/EQ2 sub, and no, not that access thing.

     

    A 'free' game would attract a LOT of ppl to it, which is all it now needs.

     

    Nox

  • LaterisLateris Member UncommonPosts: 1,830
    Originally posted by Kyleran


    Offer them $500M for the product and I'll bet they'll be willing to sell it to you.
    Anything can be bought for enough money.
     

    The purchased it for 7 million. LOL

  • winterwinter Member UncommonPosts: 2,281
    Originally posted by Thillian


    Well that was the point why they bought it. So noone else could get it, improve it and compete to their precious Everquest franchise (with which is in direct competition).

     Time for a reality check. Vanguard was failing long before SOE took it over. SOE is out to make money they'd love to unload Vanguard if anyone was stupid enough to pony up even close to the amount they shelled out for it, but lets be real no ones interested in buying a game that has only 10k subscribers and barely stays out of the red. SOE would probably develop it if they thought there was any money to be made but Vanguard just isn't that special and its day in the sun has come and gone, with the exception of a few die hards almost no one wants to go back and give give Brads failure another chance.

     

      Vanguard is a Money sink in most developers eyes. it was circling the drain before SOE picked it up, and the only thing thats kept it from being shut down long ago was SOE rescuing it from the scrape heap and putting it on life support..

      The EQ and EQ2 players already tried it before and after SOE bought it and in both cases they found it wanting and left. Thinking Vanguard was ever any competition to EQ or EQ2 simply borders on Delusional. Ever wonder why no developer has ever even mentioned the the possibility of looking into trying to get vanguard? Its because simply put no developer wants it.

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081

    The bottom line :

    1) SOE can scrap it so no one gets it.

    2) Some day ( God knows when ) SOE could some day go crazy and fix Vanguard, and advertise the heck out of it.

    3) Sell it, if so I'm sure devs would like to look into the backward coding that only SOE could understand, who knows maybe even some deves would go with the the buyer.

    YOU NEED A CRYSTAL BALL TO SEE INTO THE FUTURE !

    Only SOE knows, it's a secret, even if they hold a public press conference, you still don't know because it's still a secret. We all like Vanguard at least we know the potential is their. Best you could do is to check here every few weeks and see if anything changes.

  • BorkotronBorkotron Member Posts: 282
    Originally posted by denshing

    Originally posted by jroller99


    if SOE would allow players that are on a trial to leave the isle of dawn then more people would stay. Isle take about a day to complete all content in it through all three spheres.  Thats not much of a trial.  The real product is the game after Isle of Dawn and trial players dont get to experience this. Those that do sub then find the starter towns empty, and the ability to find a group is nonexistent at that level and players end up leaving after a few days on the mainland.  Opening up the trial would allow the trial players to populate the other starting areas and experience more of the game,  thus maybe keeping more



     

    Why make a noobie island, when the full game already has newbie starter areas! All having the island does is detatch it from the actual game, give false impressions, and litteraly CHOKE the influx of new players who could be in the full games start zones. Which kills any grouping aspect and basically kills any profit SOE could be looking for.

    Overall the trial island = Bad idea, and more harmfull than good.

     

    Exactly :) Hated this idea from the get go for the very same reason. What a waste of development time and money. Pathetic that the developers themselves didn't come to this same conclusion.

  • SweetZoidSweetZoid Member Posts: 437

    The new island is bad! If the starter areas on the main land would be used and more player would play...vanguard would be more lively and it would be easier to find groups.

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    Originally posted by Borkotron

    Originally posted by denshing

    Originally posted by jroller99


    if SOE would allow players that are on a trial to leave the isle of dawn then more people would stay. Isle take about a day to complete all content in it through all three spheres.  Thats not much of a trial.  The real product is the game after Isle of Dawn and trial players dont get to experience this. Those that do sub then find the starter towns empty, and the ability to find a group is nonexistent at that level and players end up leaving after a few days on the mainland.  Opening up the trial would allow the trial players to populate the other starting areas and experience more of the game,  thus maybe keeping more



     

    Why make a noobie island, when the full game already has newbie starter areas! All having the island does is detatch it from the actual game, give false impressions, and litteraly CHOKE the influx of new players who could be in the full games start zones. Which kills any grouping aspect and basically kills any profit SOE could be looking for.

    Overall the trial island = Bad idea, and more harmfull than good.

     

    Exactly :) Hated this idea from the get go for the very same reason. What a waste of development time and money. Pathetic that the developers themselves didn't come to this same conclusion.

    I agree also, the Trial Island was a bad idea

     

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    Originally posted by Warjin


    I'ts a shame a game with this much to offer is being held back by lack of funds, from what I read if this game had the right team can do some damage to compitition.
    2 years ago no,even if fixed all the bugs in 1 week and had the best team it still would of failed, Why well because the system specs where 2 high for It's time, I would say maybe 10/15% could handle the specs 2 years ago.
    Hell man the time is now with Vanguard,the system specs fill a larger base nowdays and with all the WoW burnouts and soon to follow Aion, Vanguard could and should take the jump, But they lack funds, so I wonder what we could do to help, any thoughts?
    I would love for SoE to sell Vanguard to someone who will take better care of it, kind of sad really, Man if there where a Children and Youth for Mmos SoE would be in jail thats for sure lol.



    Convince them to sell it? Well that's easy. All you have to do is find an investor or a set of investors who will offer Sony enough to make it worth while. Convincing them would probably not be too hard at all. It's finding investors who would be willing to do it. Now THAT'S  the hard part.

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