Originally posted by Neanderthal Silly foreigners, you guys can't even get your weights and measures right. A liter? What the hell is a liter? Isn't a litter what you call a bunch of newborn puppies? Come on guys, a litter is for puppies, a gallon..a GALLON...is for liquids. Geez....
What is one litre? Guess youre not old enough to buy alcohol or youd know most spirits around the world sell in 1lt or 750ml bottles... Yea, keep guzzling down those gallons of pepsi and mountain dew.
The opposite actually. I'm so old my heavy drinking phase is far behind me. And since it apparently didn't come across I guess I have to point out that I was just joking around. We do tend to be stubborn about conforming to the norms of the rest of the world but that isn't such a bad thing really. The world is becoming too homogenized as it is.
Funny enough, 'our generation' is already starting to feel that way. All the new MMORPGs that are coming out are failing to deliver us a better experience than WoW already did. The old schoolers are often asking for 'just one new game that plays the way we like'. The newer players are also asking for the same thing except they want that 'just one new game' to be on their terms. This is why every new release is looked up like it is the 'second comming' by both groups.
I totally agree with you here Torik. I too have been looking for a new game to play... and every game that comes out has been a huge disappointment to me.
I loved WoW, but I haven't played it in almost a year. There comes a time when even a great game becomes boring and stagnant. I just get offended when people attack it as if it is the cause of all that is wrong with the genre.
Suppose you liked to play football video games. Video games about football.
Suppose, then, there was this one football game that came out, that introduced rocket launchers, land mines, and other explosives to the field.
It's the most popular foot ball game ever. Suppose further, that every new football game that comes out, includes things like missiles, helicopter gunships, aliens, etc. etc., because they all want to make the money the popular one did/does.
Now. What does the old school foot ball game player say, if he doesn't like this change? If he says these aren't 'real' football games, he's told that it's all subjective, and that he's outvoted by the popularity of the new kind. The new kind is real. If he says they aren't fun, then he's reminded that 11 million people disagree. If he says he wants the New football game everybody is talking about to include more football, and less biological warfare, he's told he's stupid, because nobody wants to run down the field with a ball in a football game anymore, and that game designers would be foolish to cater to his niche interests when they aren't going to make the $$$. So, is the frustrated gamer just all done? He has to concede that a good football game is one with sharks + lasers? Or, does he reach a point where he can say, 'get the hell out of my genre, and go play sci-fi actions games if you want lasers'?
I hear what you are saying. Genre blending, to some of us, is like mixing oatmeal with garlic, then calling it brunch. But some people out there think that gnomes wizards on motorcycles are the coolest thing.
I think this will always be popular with younger and casual gamers, but there will always be a market-worthy niche who demands that conventions be followed.
imho the old football player doesnt have to concede or tell the others to get out of the genre. though the majority of the new games will cater to the new players, i believe there will still be a few classic style games out there. they just become rarer and harder to find. i agree with the earlier posters in looking for like-minded individuals and possibly even making your own classic football game.
I have had to do this with country music,Boy Band Music,Brittany Spears,NCSI,Dancing with Stars,The Office,Nascar,Wii.I don't think those things are great things ever but millions of people like those things.So who is right me or the Majority of people who liking these things.Success is indication of quality whether you guys want to admit it or not.
Okami and Shadow of colosuss are great games but they didn't sell that well,So are they really that good?Shouldn't people want to play good games?You can't even blame on being release by a small company or not adverstised because they have been many small games that turn into big games on word of mouth,just people telling their freinds and those freinds playing game and doing the same.I can go on but i rather not i will keep it simple
11 million subs,Some where between 6-9 million playing by my guess.Some how the game has the 18-34 male market playing but unlike most video games it has large amounts of females playing,older people playing and children playing.You want to call the game a bad game and say it hurt genre but you clearly in minority.Here is the point if game has 11 million subs and 65% percent of market it is good game and Maybe just Maybe You are wrong.
I can say all day long that PS3 and Xbox 360 are better than Wii but the Wii by far is out selling those two.So who is right?
Lets boil this down and stop with all the clever analogies. Well, some of them are clever. Hardcore gamers hate casual games, most specifically WoW. Hardcore gamers hate that WoW has brought millions of gamers that wouldn't normally play an mmorpg. They post thread after thread after thread about it. I happen to be an old school gamer. I would not refer to myself as a hardcore gamer because that term has apparently been highjacked by gamers who feel the need to elevate themselves above everyone else. I like sandbox games. I like themepark games. I like games that keep me entertained and engaged. Why can't I like both types of mmorpgs? If I listen to the hardcore gamers, because I liked WoW I'm a "carebear", a "nub", a "person who needs to be led by the nose"or "hand-held throughout the game", and ruining mmorpg s. If I listen to casual gamers...well, casual gamers say, "play what you like...". I think I'll go with being a casual gamer who likes exploring new environments, meeting new gamers, fighting epic battles against NPC bosses and and other gamers, creating, and/or stealing new gear, weapons, pets, trinkets, and trying to recapture the feeling of wonder I got when I first played an mmorpg.
It's not the casual gamers or "carebears", as hardcore gamers refer to us, that keep starting these countless threads. If a thread can be started by a hardcore gamer that wants to discuss his/her dream mmorpg, and doesn't do so by immediately insulting or belittling an entire community of gamers and games they like, maybe we can have a productive dialogue. Until then every thread like this will come down to "WoW sux!!!", then replied with"WoW rules!!!".
Lets boil this down and stop with all the clever analogies. Well, some of them are clever. Hardcore gamers hate casual games, most specifically WoW. Hardcore gamers hate that WoW has brought millions of gamers that wouldn't normally play an mmorpg. They post thread after thread after thread about it. I happen to be an old school gamer. I would not refer to myself as a hardcore gamer because that term has apparently been highjacked by gamers who feel the need to elevate themselves above everyone else. I like sandbox games. I like themepark games. I like games that keep me entertained and engaged. Why can't I like both types of mmorpgs? If I listen to the hardcore gamers, because I liked WoW I'm a "carebear", a "nub", a "person who needs to be led by the nose"or "hand-held throughout the game", and ruining mmorpg s. If I listen to casual gamers...well, casual gamers say, "play what you like...". I think I'll go with being a casual gamer who likes exploring new environments, meeting new gamers, fighting epic battles against NPC bosses and and other gamers, creating, and/or stealing new gear, weapons, pets, trinkets, and trying to recapture the feeling of wonder I got when I first played an mmorpg. It's not the casual gamers or "carebears", as hardcore gamers refer to us, that keep starting these countless threads. If a thread can be started by a hardcore gamer that wants to discuss his/her dream mmorpg, and doesn't do so by immediately insulting or belittling an entire community of gamers and games they like, maybe we can have a productive dialogue. Until then every thread like this will come down to "WoW sux!!!", then replied with"WoW rules!!!".
Haven't you often noticed that the people causing the problems are the ones being the nicest? They don't have anything to bitch about, for one thing. Yeah, it's easy to say 'play what you like' when everybody is making games YOU LIKE.
Lets boil this down and stop with all the clever analogies. Well, some of them are clever. Hardcore gamers hate casual games, most specifically WoW. Hardcore gamers hate that WoW has brought millions of gamers that wouldn't normally play an mmorpg. They post thread after thread after thread about it. I happen to be an old school gamer. I would not refer to myself as a hardcore gamer because that term has apparently been highjacked by gamers who feel the need to elevate themselves above everyone else. I like sandbox games. I like themepark games. I like games that keep me entertained and engaged. Why can't I like both types of mmorpgs? If I listen to the hardcore gamers, because I liked WoW I'm a "carebear", a "nub", a "person who needs to be led by the nose"or "hand-held throughout the game", and ruining mmorpg s. If I listen to casual gamers...well, casual gamers say, "play what you like...". I think I'll go with being a casual gamer who likes exploring new environments, meeting new gamers, fighting epic battles against NPC bosses and and other gamers, creating, and/or stealing new gear, weapons, pets, trinkets, and trying to recapture the feeling of wonder I got when I first played an mmorpg. It's not the casual gamers or "carebears", as hardcore gamers refer to us, that keep starting these countless threads. If a thread can be started by a hardcore gamer that wants to discuss his/her dream mmorpg, and doesn't do so by immediately insulting or belittling an entire community of gamers and games they like, maybe we can have a productive dialogue. Until then every thread like this will come down to "WoW sux!!!", then replied with"WoW rules!!!".
Haven't you often noticed that the people causing the problems are the ones being the nicest? They don't have anything to bitch about, for one thing. Yeah, it's easy to say 'play what you like' when everybody is making games YOU LIKE.
The problem with this is you guys don't know what you want. I've read laundry lists full of things hardcore gamers want in an mmorpg and then see games come out that get it pretty close. But no one will play them for a variety of reasons. The most common response I see is, "darkfall, eve online, AoC, fallen earth, aion, and all the other mmorp s that feature "hardcore" content, are good games, just not for them". My head spins, as Im sure mmorpg devs do, when trying to make sense of it.
I'm going to answer my own response because I think I understand what hardcore gamers want. All they want is a good hardcore sandbox style mmorpg that plays as smooth as WoW. Everything that comes out lately that comes close to hardcore standards is virtually unplayable due to bugs, glitches, etc. Part of the problem is WoW created a certain visual style that most gamers hate for being cartoony, but allows it to play on almost every computer. Hardcore gamers want realism and detail in the games graphics which severely limits it's playability on many computers. I know I could barely play AoC on its lowest settings on my comp. I don't know. Maybe I'm completely off base and off topic, but I think realistic graphics is a simple yet big part of the problem. Who can afford to buy or build a new computer system everytime a new game comes out?
To sum it up, I think if a dev can build a sandbox mmorpg with WoW's accessibility, either with simpler graphics or a creative style rather than on intense realism, you might finally get what you want.
Feeling entitlement over how a game should be called its really not a healthy feeling. You yourself provided what is probably the best example. For upwards of 90% of the people in the world (including english speakers) football is not used to describe a game where a player will run down a field holding a ball in his hands. You can argue with Americans all you want about how real football is older than their take on the game, about how it was named so in England and so on... At the end of the day, its just easier to say "soccer" to refer to actual football than to argue with people that refuse to even give their own country its own name... What is important is that the terms we use are easy to understand. In your example yes, im sure it would be annoying to call an action game a "football" game, but since already youre on the wrong side of the issue here, it wont hurt you to ask the guy at the store for a football game if one day youre feeling youd like to play with choppers and lasers. Yes, i do understand you really were refering to content and were trying to make some esoteric point about MMORPGs loosing whatever you think their direction should be.
I understand your frustration. I miss having a good old fashioned RPG like Dragon Warrior or FF 1,2, or 3. (Japanese, not US). But, much like the RPG genre of old, MMO's are changing to fit the needs of an every growing population of new gamers who like a lot of flash. For instance, WoW has gotten a lot easier, but they have managed to add so much content that can keep veteran and hard-core gamers happy. WoW still is very different today than it was 5 years ago. There will be classic MMO's again, but they will have limited populations. There really needs to be a game for the classic fans (maybe Ryzom?) but all the classic MMO fans are dispersed among several games with no real home to call their own
Why didnt you stay with the Vanguard aka New Old type Football games
The question really is why can’t Old School Football run alongside Mega Death Football?
A lot of the changes that have come in are rubbish and an increasing number of players realise this. You can go back to old school concepts and make them work. Take World of Goo for example, who thought a old fashioned game play 2D game could create such a storm? This takes us back to the days of Lemmings and shows an old format can by as popular as it ever was. Doing the same in the MMO genre is fraught with funding issues, and if your game cannot be compared to WoW forget it. It is funding which is the key issue here, not the ability of old school to be a popular genre once again.
First, majority opinion isn't always the best way to gauge if something is good or not. At one time the majority of people in America thought slavery was a good thing. So I wouldn't be so fast to whip out the "Well, more people like WoW than anything else, so it must be the best" argument.
yes, it's popular, that does't necessarily make it the best, just popular.
Secondly, if there is a market for it, someone will cater to it and make money on it.
If there is a market for "old school" style MMORPGs someone will eventually make a good one, and make a profit in it.
There are people playing DArkfall because they like FFA PvP. Those people aren't going to play WoW, and you aren't going to get their money making a WoW clone for them.
Someone saw that money sitting around with no one trying to pick it up, and they went for it.
This will happen in any market where there is a niche not being filled, someone will see that money laying on the table waiting to be picked up, and they will go for it.
First, majority opinion isn't always the best way to gauge if something is good or not. At one time the majority of people in America thought slavery was a good thing. So I wouldn't be so fast to whip out the "Well, more people like WoW than anything else, so it must be the best" argument. yes, it's popular, that does't necessarily make it the best, just popular. Secondly, if there is a market for it, someone will cater to it and make money on it. If there is a market for "old school" style MMORPGs someone will eventually make a good one, and make a profit in it. There are people playing DArkfall because they like FFA PvP. Those people aren't going to play WoW, and you aren't going to get their money making a WoW clone for them. Someone saw that money sitting around with no one trying to pick it up, and they went for it. This will happen in any market where there is a niche not being filled, someone will see that money laying on the table waiting to be picked up, and they will go for it.
I really hope you are right, theres plenty of us with our money on the table just waiting for a quality game...
Just to make things clear... I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Lets boil this down and stop with all the clever analogies. Well, some of them are clever. Hardcore gamers hate casual games, most specifically WoW. Hardcore gamers hate that WoW has brought millions of gamers that wouldn't normally play an mmorpg. They post thread after thread after thread about it. I happen to be an old school gamer. I would not refer to myself as a hardcore gamer because that term has apparently been highjacked by gamers who feel the need to elevate themselves above everyone else. I like sandbox games. I like themepark games. I like games that keep me entertained and engaged. Why can't I like both types of mmorpgs? If I listen to the hardcore gamers, because I liked WoW I'm a "carebear", a "nub", a "person who needs to be led by the nose"or "hand-held throughout the game", and ruining mmorpg s. If I listen to casual gamers...well, casual gamers say, "play what you like...". I think I'll go with being a casual gamer who likes exploring new environments, meeting new gamers, fighting epic battles against NPC bosses and and other gamers, creating, and/or stealing new gear, weapons, pets, trinkets, and trying to recapture the feeling of wonder I got when I first played an mmorpg. It's not the casual gamers or "carebears", as hardcore gamers refer to us, that keep starting these countless threads. If a thread can be started by a hardcore gamer that wants to discuss his/her dream mmorpg, and doesn't do so by immediately insulting or belittling an entire community of gamers and games they like, maybe we can have a productive dialogue. Until then every thread like this will come down to "WoW sux!!!", then replied with"WoW rules!!!".
Haven't you often noticed that the people causing the problems are the ones being the nicest? They don't have anything to bitch about, for one thing. Yeah, it's easy to say 'play what you like' when everybody is making games YOU LIKE.
The problem with this is you guys don't know what you want. I've read laundry lists full of things hardcore gamers want in an mmorpg and then see games come out that get it pretty close. But no one will play them for a variety of reasons. The most common response I see is, "darkfall, eve online, AoC, fallen earth, aion, and all the other mmorp s that feature "hardcore" content, are good games, just not for them". My head spins, as Im sure mmorpg devs do, when trying to make sense of it.
I think that's part of it. EVe is a great example of a game that I think is very nearly perfect, EXCEPT that I could give a shit about the setting. Spaceships just don't interest me. Which brings me to what I think is the real problem here:
A fight over settings and IPs.
People don't want to play MMO mechanic systems. They want to play IN a game world, you follow? Like how I can't play Eve no matter how good it is because I don't care about spaceships.
So, let's say an X-Files MMO was announced.
It's either going to be the new style like WoW, or it's going to be hardcore. THe problem is, both kinds of players are going to want this game, because they like the IP. If the game comes out as a themepark, no death penalty, class-based WoW clone, then certain people will be happy, and certain people will be sad. If it's an open-PVP full loot gankfest, certain people will be happy, certain people will be sad. The people who hate the kind of game it is....these people DON'T get an X-files MMO, no matter how much they want one. That ship has sailed, and there's a resentment there that isn't going to be cleared up by the existence of some other MMO that suits their playstyle.
So, every time a new IP is announced (new or derivative) it gives people a chance to be excited, or dissappointed, and once the IP is used, it's usually used for good. Ergo, the whole "Just play a different game" argument when these issues come up misses a fundamental point. Which brings it back to my OP in a way.
There is an extent to which "play a different game" doesn't satisfy, both in terms of settings, like I described above, and in terms of game-types (football games, MMOs, whatever). A person can be understandably upset when a game is not the style they like, either because the IP is 'wasted' to them, or because a potentially 'really good MMO' is wasted to them. If that's true, then we can say that old-school players can be understandably pissed at, say, WoW. WoW changed the way MMOs are, in a way the old-school gamer doesn't like, and as such, any new MMO, which could otherwise be good, might well suck (to them) instead.
Well, in all fairness, there are plenty of MMOGs out there that don't have all the rocket launchers, pew pew guns, and steampunk insanity that WOW has. I just picked up LOTRO and it's very much a pure high fantasy game, which I'm guessing is what the OP is looking for when he talks about "classic football."
And to twist the analogy further, I have several friends from the UK who refuse to use the word soccer but always say they're going to go "play some football." They of course get a lot of heat from American fans who tell them they don't know the first thing about "real" football.
I feel the same way when I say that Guild Wars is one of my favorite MMOs and I get the "well, you're not playing a real MMO so what do you know."
Comments
What is one litre? Guess youre not old enough to buy alcohol or youd know most spirits around the world sell in 1lt or 750ml bottles... Yea, keep guzzling down those gallons of pepsi and mountain dew.
The opposite actually. I'm so old my heavy drinking phase is far behind me. And since it apparently didn't come across I guess I have to point out that I was just joking around. We do tend to be stubborn about conforming to the norms of the rest of the world but that isn't such a bad thing really. The world is becoming too homogenized as it is.
I totally agree with you here Torik. I too have been looking for a new game to play... and every game that comes out has been a huge disappointment to me.
I loved WoW, but I haven't played it in almost a year. There comes a time when even a great game becomes boring and stagnant. I just get offended when people attack it as if it is the cause of all that is wrong with the genre.
Liar! You read the whole thread, I saw you! He's lying guys, and I know because I'm his gay lover.
"I'm going to have to assume that was a hostile response..."
I already played that game on my Genesis 15 yrs ago...it was called Mutant League Football and it ROCKED!!! Yes, it was cool, hehe.
I hear what you are saying. Genre blending, to some of us, is like mixing oatmeal with garlic, then calling it brunch. But some people out there think that gnomes wizards on motorcycles are the coolest thing.
I think this will always be popular with younger and casual gamers, but there will always be a market-worthy niche who demands that conventions be followed.
imho the old football player doesnt have to concede or tell the others to get out of the genre. though the majority of the new games will cater to the new players, i believe there will still be a few classic style games out there. they just become rarer and harder to find. i agree with the earlier posters in looking for like-minded individuals and possibly even making your own classic football game.
I have had to do this with country music,Boy Band Music,Brittany Spears,NCSI,Dancing with Stars,The Office,Nascar,Wii.I don't think those things are great things ever but millions of people like those things.So who is right me or the Majority of people who liking these things.Success is indication of quality whether you guys want to admit it or not.
Okami and Shadow of colosuss are great games but they didn't sell that well,So are they really that good?Shouldn't people want to play good games?You can't even blame on being release by a small company or not adverstised because they have been many small games that turn into big games on word of mouth,just people telling their freinds and those freinds playing game and doing the same.I can go on but i rather not i will keep it simple
11 million subs,Some where between 6-9 million playing by my guess.Some how the game has the 18-34 male market playing but unlike most video games it has large amounts of females playing,older people playing and children playing.You want to call the game a bad game and say it hurt genre but you clearly in minority.Here is the point if game has 11 million subs and 65% percent of market it is good game and Maybe just Maybe You are wrong.
I can say all day long that PS3 and Xbox 360 are better than Wii but the Wii by far is out selling those two.So who is right?
Lets boil this down and stop with all the clever analogies. Well, some of them are clever. Hardcore gamers hate casual games, most specifically WoW. Hardcore gamers hate that WoW has brought millions of gamers that wouldn't normally play an mmorpg. They post thread after thread after thread about it. I happen to be an old school gamer. I would not refer to myself as a hardcore gamer because that term has apparently been highjacked by gamers who feel the need to elevate themselves above everyone else. I like sandbox games. I like themepark games. I like games that keep me entertained and engaged. Why can't I like both types of mmorpgs? If I listen to the hardcore gamers, because I liked WoW I'm a "carebear", a "nub", a "person who needs to be led by the nose"or "hand-held throughout the game", and ruining mmorpg s. If I listen to casual gamers...well, casual gamers say, "play what you like...". I think I'll go with being a casual gamer who likes exploring new environments, meeting new gamers, fighting epic battles against NPC bosses and and other gamers, creating, and/or stealing new gear, weapons, pets, trinkets, and trying to recapture the feeling of wonder I got when I first played an mmorpg.
It's not the casual gamers or "carebears", as hardcore gamers refer to us, that keep starting these countless threads. If a thread can be started by a hardcore gamer that wants to discuss his/her dream mmorpg, and doesn't do so by immediately insulting or belittling an entire community of gamers and games they like, maybe we can have a productive dialogue. Until then every thread like this will come down to "WoW sux!!!", then replied with"WoW rules!!!".
Haven't you often noticed that the people causing the problems are the ones being the nicest? They don't have anything to bitch about, for one thing. Yeah, it's easy to say 'play what you like' when everybody is making games YOU LIKE.
Haven't you often noticed that the people causing the problems are the ones being the nicest? They don't have anything to bitch about, for one thing. Yeah, it's easy to say 'play what you like' when everybody is making games YOU LIKE.
The problem with this is you guys don't know what you want. I've read laundry lists full of things hardcore gamers want in an mmorpg and then see games come out that get it pretty close. But no one will play them for a variety of reasons. The most common response I see is, "darkfall, eve online, AoC, fallen earth, aion, and all the other mmorp s that feature "hardcore" content, are good games, just not for them". My head spins, as Im sure mmorpg devs do, when trying to make sense of it.
I'm going to answer my own response because I think I understand what hardcore gamers want. All they want is a good hardcore sandbox style mmorpg that plays as smooth as WoW. Everything that comes out lately that comes close to hardcore standards is virtually unplayable due to bugs, glitches, etc. Part of the problem is WoW created a certain visual style that most gamers hate for being cartoony, but allows it to play on almost every computer. Hardcore gamers want realism and detail in the games graphics which severely limits it's playability on many computers. I know I could barely play AoC on its lowest settings on my comp. I don't know. Maybe I'm completely off base and off topic, but I think realistic graphics is a simple yet big part of the problem. Who can afford to buy or build a new computer system everytime a new game comes out?
To sum it up, I think if a dev can build a sandbox mmorpg with WoW's accessibility, either with simpler graphics or a creative style rather than on intense realism, you might finally get what you want.
I understand your frustration. I miss having a good old fashioned RPG like Dragon Warrior or FF 1,2, or 3. (Japanese, not US). But, much like the RPG genre of old, MMO's are changing to fit the needs of an every growing population of new gamers who like a lot of flash. For instance, WoW has gotten a lot easier, but they have managed to add so much content that can keep veteran and hard-core gamers happy. WoW still is very different today than it was 5 years ago. There will be classic MMO's again, but they will have limited populations. There really needs to be a game for the classic fans (maybe Ryzom?) but all the classic MMO fans are dispersed among several games with no real home to call their own
Why didnt you stay with the Vanguard aka New Old type Football games
The question really is why can’t Old School Football run alongside Mega Death Football?
A lot of the changes that have come in are rubbish and an increasing number of players realise this. You can go back to old school concepts and make them work. Take World of Goo for example, who thought a old fashioned game play 2D game could create such a storm? This takes us back to the days of Lemmings and shows an old format can by as popular as it ever was. Doing the same in the MMO genre is fraught with funding issues, and if your game cannot be compared to WoW forget it. It is funding which is the key issue here, not the ability of old school to be a popular genre once again.
First, majority opinion isn't always the best way to gauge if something is good or not. At one time the majority of people in America thought slavery was a good thing. So I wouldn't be so fast to whip out the "Well, more people like WoW than anything else, so it must be the best" argument.
yes, it's popular, that does't necessarily make it the best, just popular.
Secondly, if there is a market for it, someone will cater to it and make money on it.
If there is a market for "old school" style MMORPGs someone will eventually make a good one, and make a profit in it.
There are people playing DArkfall because they like FFA PvP. Those people aren't going to play WoW, and you aren't going to get their money making a WoW clone for them.
Someone saw that money sitting around with no one trying to pick it up, and they went for it.
This will happen in any market where there is a niche not being filled, someone will see that money laying on the table waiting to be picked up, and they will go for it.
On a related note...did you ever play Mutant League Football for the Sega Genesis?
I though it kicked ass
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
I really hope you are right, theres plenty of us with our money on the table just waiting for a quality game...
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Haven't you often noticed that the people causing the problems are the ones being the nicest? They don't have anything to bitch about, for one thing. Yeah, it's easy to say 'play what you like' when everybody is making games YOU LIKE.
The problem with this is you guys don't know what you want. I've read laundry lists full of things hardcore gamers want in an mmorpg and then see games come out that get it pretty close. But no one will play them for a variety of reasons. The most common response I see is, "darkfall, eve online, AoC, fallen earth, aion, and all the other mmorp s that feature "hardcore" content, are good games, just not for them". My head spins, as Im sure mmorpg devs do, when trying to make sense of it.
I think that's part of it. EVe is a great example of a game that I think is very nearly perfect, EXCEPT that I could give a shit about the setting. Spaceships just don't interest me. Which brings me to what I think is the real problem here:
A fight over settings and IPs.
People don't want to play MMO mechanic systems. They want to play IN a game world, you follow? Like how I can't play Eve no matter how good it is because I don't care about spaceships.
So, let's say an X-Files MMO was announced.
It's either going to be the new style like WoW, or it's going to be hardcore. THe problem is, both kinds of players are going to want this game, because they like the IP. If the game comes out as a themepark, no death penalty, class-based WoW clone, then certain people will be happy, and certain people will be sad. If it's an open-PVP full loot gankfest, certain people will be happy, certain people will be sad. The people who hate the kind of game it is....these people DON'T get an X-files MMO, no matter how much they want one. That ship has sailed, and there's a resentment there that isn't going to be cleared up by the existence of some other MMO that suits their playstyle.
So, every time a new IP is announced (new or derivative) it gives people a chance to be excited, or dissappointed, and once the IP is used, it's usually used for good. Ergo, the whole "Just play a different game" argument when these issues come up misses a fundamental point. Which brings it back to my OP in a way.
There is an extent to which "play a different game" doesn't satisfy, both in terms of settings, like I described above, and in terms of game-types (football games, MMOs, whatever). A person can be understandably upset when a game is not the style they like, either because the IP is 'wasted' to them, or because a potentially 'really good MMO' is wasted to them. If that's true, then we can say that old-school players can be understandably pissed at, say, WoW. WoW changed the way MMOs are, in a way the old-school gamer doesn't like, and as such, any new MMO, which could otherwise be good, might well suck (to them) instead.
Well, in all fairness, there are plenty of MMOGs out there that don't have all the rocket launchers, pew pew guns, and steampunk insanity that WOW has. I just picked up LOTRO and it's very much a pure high fantasy game, which I'm guessing is what the OP is looking for when he talks about "classic football."
And to twist the analogy further, I have several friends from the UK who refuse to use the word soccer but always say they're going to go "play some football." They of course get a lot of heat from American fans who tell them they don't know the first thing about "real" football.
I feel the same way when I say that Guild Wars is one of my favorite MMOs and I get the "well, you're not playing a real MMO so what do you know."
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium