Originally posted by LeKinK So far it's killing less than regular flu here and I don't even get the vaccine for that one. I just wash my hand more and don't go to social places.
Nearly 5000 people worldwide are known to have died of swine flu so far. But on average 36,000 are said to die of flu each winter in the US alone. On the basis of such numbers, many have concluded - wrongly - that swine flu is less dangerous than normal flu.
These numbers should not be compared directly. The 36,000 figure comes from epidemiological studies. Because the timing of flu outbreaks varies from year to year, the normal number of deaths in any month can be compared with the number of deaths in the same month when there was a flu outbreak, says Lone Simonsen of George Washington University in Washington DC. Such studies reveal a bulge in deaths during and just after the flu season every year, mainly among the elderly. Many are clearly due to flu and other lung infections that can follow it, but more than half are not obviously connected, because flu often kills in indirect ways, by triggering heart attacks or strokes, for instance.
By contrast, the deaths attributed to swine flu are those directly caused by respiratory infection with the pandemic virus. Indirect deaths - the majority of the 36,000 figure for regular flu - are not being counted. The full death toll for 2009 H1N1 flu will not be known for a while, if ever.
This whole issue is really getting soo political its hard to get any points across.
I know im lucky. I'm involved in the sciences and I have many friends in medical Biochemistry and microbiology so I have ample resources, but It frightens me the amount of people who are so confused about whats going on.
Nobody bothers to listen to doctors or pharmacists anymore...
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
9.10.30 "The decline in infectious diseases in developed countries had nothing to do with vaccinations, but with the decline in poverty and hunger." - Dr Buchwald, M.D. "Up to 90% of the total decline in the death rate of children between 1860-1965 because of whooping cough, scarlet fever, diphtheria, and measles occurred before the introduction of immunisations and antibiotics." - Dr Archie Kalokerinos, M.D link4 "The polio death rate was decreasing on its own before the vaccine was introduced, and there is no credible scientific evidence that the vaccine caused polio to disappear. Cases of polio increased after mass inoculations" link3 graphical ref
H1N1 is NOT "Swine flu" H1N1 was the 1918 Influenza pandemic (A strain, aka Spanish flu). Additional 1951 outbreak. Mutates external proteins H protein Hemagglutinin, N protein Neuraminidase, human endemic; 3-5% mortality, 50M dead (500K US); about half the world's population including 1/4 of the US was infected, mortality est 5%. (i.e. Influenza may have killed as many as 25M in its first 25 weeks, in contrast AIDS killed 25M in its first 25 years.) US army camp 5%mortality, brit army India white 9.6%mortality indian 21.9%m, fiji 14%m in 16days, Alaska natives 33%m (never contracted flu before); Spanish flu (Orthomyxoviridae RNA virus, Influenza A strain, aka H1N1) 1918-1920 was the pandemic that killed about 50M (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2021692) (Patterson, KD; Pyle GF [Spring 1991]. "The geography and mortality of the 1918 influenza pandemic". Bull Hist Med. 65 [1]: 421.) (http://www.influenzareport.com/ir/overview.htm) (i.e. fyi 1914-1918 WW1 killed about 37M [27M civilian] and the 1347-1351 Bubonic Plague [Yersinia pestis bacteria] killed about 75M with 30-75% mortality, ebola 90% mortality.)
There are only three known A subtypes of influenza viruses (1930 H1N1, H1N2, and 1968 H3N2) currently circulating among humans. Types A (H&N subtypes, antigenic changes: gradual evolution [drift] or abrupt [shift]), B ([drift] seasonal epidemic, lower mortality) & C (mild) types; there are sixteen known H subtypes and nine known N subtypes of influenza A viruses; many different combinations of HA and NA proteins are possible. All known subtypes of influenza A viruses can be found in birds.
H2N2 was the 1957 Asian flu pandemic. 3M dead (70K US), from a 1956 China duck+human reassortment, where external protein exhibited reassortment/mixed genes with avian virus for new surface proteins (hence H2N2). Bird flu went extinct 2005... RNA segments, bsl-3 prevents airborn exposure... from possible 1889 russian flu 1M dead
1968 Hong Kong flu A H3N2 evolved-reassorted (by antigenic shift) from the 1957 H2N2 (killing about 750K humans) becoming dominant in 2006; having emerged and circulated from southeast asia containing genes from human (HA, NA, and PB1), swine (NS, NP, and M), and avian (PB2 and PA) lineages. 10% mortality, 1M dead (34K US [400K US todate persistant, 90% elderly]), (both H2N2 & H3N2 contain avian flu [H5N1] genes) By 1991 H3N2, (aka SWINE FLU,) was only 1% resistant to standard antiviral drugs, by 2005 swine flu was 91% resistant and today 2009 it is 100% resistant (i.e. amantadine and rimantadine.) H3N2 virus can remain infectious for weeks in the open environment...
72-76 grid (aids went public 1981), antiretroviral (HighlyActiveART) and monoclonal (MAb, [naziesk ascites harvest]) vs recombinant (viral gene segment engineering-fermentation [classified apoptosis cancer research]) antibody cancer therapies
1976 fort dix H1N1 A outbreak ("accidental refrigerator release") 1977 russian flu A/ussr/90/77 H1N1, low mort, "possibly reappeared due to seasonal flu vaccine" after a 20yr absence (identical to the 1951 H1N1 A)
'88 MMR vaccination intro
1995 H7N7 is the duck virus (Netherlands 2003 fatal) 1997 H5N1 is the 1959 chicken virus; 1968 H3N2 Hong Kong flu by 1993 this HK flu had reassorted with 1968 avian H3Nx & 1930 swine strains into today's lethal H3N2 swine flu version that has steadily increased resistance to standard antiviral drugs. After the 1997 Bird flu (H5N1, A/Hong Kong/156/97 and A/Chicken/Hong Kong/258/97) broke out in Hong Kong, on December 28, 1997 veterinary authorities began to slaughter all (1.6 million) chickens present in wholesale facilities or vendors within Hong Kong, and importation of chickens from neighboring areas was stopped; because the case-fatality rates were 18% in children and 57% in adults older than 17 years. A year after the '97 Avian-Bird flu (H5N1) epidemic several countries had severe local outbreaks or epidemics of interpandemic variant A/Sydney/5/97 (H3N2)-like viruses (i.e. Swine flu). Currently 69% mortality (esp Indonesia and Thailand 2006) The epizootic Bird flu (Avian Influenza, Hemagglutinin5Neuraminidase1 type, aka H5N1) evolved in 1997 Hong Kong crossing over to humans (from duck, chicken, turkey, pig, whale, horse, and seal host's saliva, nasal secretions, feces and blood) with a 30% mortality, by 2005 50% mortality; (first detected 1975 in US, LPAI H5N1 low pathogenic in Wisconsin duck & goose, enzootic in many bird populations.) H5N1 remains infectious at 0°C ( 32.0°F) or 6 days at 37°C ( 98.6°F). 100% fatal in birds within 48 hours.
oct'04-feb'05 Meridian Bioscience Inc Cleveland erroneously distributed to about 4600 laboratories in eighteen countries lyophilized (vacuum frozen-preserved) A/Japan/305/57 H2N2 unlabeled vials (a pandemic virus not in circulation since 1968) worldwide in proficiency panels for quality control assessment, specimens were from the US College of American Pathologists and other providers; the H2N2 was not detected until Mar 2005, EIGHT months later; so much for worldwide detection proficiency! 2006 bayer inc & USfda knew a hemophiliac drug was contaminated with live hiv, it was removed from US and then dumped in european/asian/latin markets 2008 baxter corp mixed wild avian A h5n1 (BSL3+) into human B h3n2 "experimental virus material" from Orth-Donau, Austria through December-Feb; Avir Green Hills Biotechnology sent the samples to 4 countries (trying to provoke a reassortment pandemic?) baxter claimed "trade secrets/proprietary info" in their production process to partially elaborate in the investigation, no baxter official were prosecuted.
Replikins are short fragments of the genomes of infectious organisms, which have been found to be related quantitatively to rapid replication and epidemic outbreaks 2006 Antiviral drugs (e.g., oseltamivir, amantadine, rimantadine, zanamivir)
In 2003: 1st was heart disease 654K, 2 cancer 550K, 3 stroke 150K, 4 chronic lower resp 123K, 5 accident 108K, 6 diabetes 72K, 7 Alzheimer's 65K, 8 influenza/pneumonia 61K. In 2007 hospital mistakes were the 4th leading cause of death @ 97K The annual flu kills about 36K humans in the US yearly. There are over 100 subtypes (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genomes/FLU/flubiology.html) of the Influenza A virus.
us$5 to 8 each. Tamiflu 75mg Capsules
Oseltamivir phosphate - The active ingredient in Tamiflu Black iron oxide (E172) Croscarmellose Sodium FD and C Blue 2 (indigo carmine, E132) A synthetic dye Gelatin A protein product traditionally made with animal byproducts Oseltamivir Povidone Pregelatinised maize starch Red iron oxide (E172) Shellac A "natural plastic" secreted from the female lac insect Sodium Stearyl Fumarate Talc Preliminary links between talc and pulmonary issues, lung cancer, skin cancer and ovarian cancer have been established in studies
Titanium dioxide (E171) Yellow iron oxide (E172)
Tamiflu 12mg/ml Oral Suspension
Oseltamivir Saccharin sodium (E954) A chemical sweetener linked to cancer in some studies Sodium benzoate (E211) When combined with absorbic acid (vitamin C), sodium benzoate can form benzene, a known carcinogen Sodium dihydrogen citrate (E331 (a)) Sorbitol (E420) A sugar substitute that can cause gastrointestinal problems Titanium dioxide (E171) Tutti Frutti flavour Maltodextrins (maize) Propylene glycol Although generally recognized as safe (GRAS) by the FDA, propylene glycol is used as a food-grade antifreeze and is the primary ingredient of the paint inside a paintball Arabic gum (E414) Natural identical flavouring substances(mainly consisting of banana, pineapple and peach flavour) Xantham gum (E415)
Alpha-Tocopherol - A form of Vitamin E. Aluminum Hydroxide Aluminum Phosphate Ammonium Sulfate - An inorganic salt used as a soil fertilizer. Amphotercin B - Polyene antifungal drug. Animal Tissues (pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain, dog kidney, monkey kidney) Arginine - An amino acid. Beta-Propiolactone - An organic compound of the lactone family. (lactone - a cyclic ester) Calcium Chloride - A common salt. Calf Bovine Serum - Fetal bovine serum. Chicken Egg Chick Embryo Duck Egg Dibasic Potassium Phosphate - Phosphoric Acid Dibasic Sodium Phosphate - A sodium salt of phosphoric acid. Disodium Phosphate - A sodium salt of phosphoric acid. Fetal Bovine Serum - Comes from blood drawn from unborn bovine (cow) fetus. Formaldehyde - A carcinogen. Formalin - Formaldehyde Gelatin - Produced from selected pieces of calf and cattle skins, de-mineralized cattle bones and pork skin. Gentamicin Sulfate - An aminoglycoside antibiotic. Glycerol - Glycerin Hemagglutinin - A substance that causes red blood cells to agglutinate. Human Diploid Cells - Originating from human aborted fetal tissue. Hydrocortisone Hydrolized Gelatin - Hydrolized collagen used to strengthen connective tissue. Magnesium Chloride - Salt that is an iconic halide. Monobasic Potassium Phosphate - A chemical compound of sodium with a phosphate. Monosodium Glutamate - MSG Neomycin Neomycin Sulfate - Neomycin Nonoxynol 9 - Used in cleaners, cosmetics and spermicidal. Octoxynol 10 - Used as a spermicidal agent. Ovalbumin - Main protein found in egg white. Phenol Red Indicator - Used as PH indicator. Phenoxyethanol - Bactericide Polyethlyene Glycol P - Is ocytylphenyl ether. Carbowax. Polymyxin B - Antibiotic Polysorbate 20 - Polysorbate surficant. Used in detergent. Polysorbate 80 - Preservative that causes infertility in mice. Used in foods. Porcine (pig) Pancreatic Hydrolysate of Casein Potassium Chloride - Metal halide salt composed of potassium and chlorine. Potassium Dihydrogen Phosphate - Soluble salt used as a fertilizer, food additive and fungicide. Potassium Diphosphate Potassium Monophosphate - Phosphate Salt Sodium Deoxycholate - Bile Acid Sodium Taurodeoxycholate - A bile salt formed in the liver. Sorbitol Squalene - Developed from shark liver oil. Sucrose Thimerosal - Mercury containing compound. Tri(n) Butylphosphate - Used as an extractant and plasticizer. Vero Cells - A continuous line of monkey cells. Washed Sheep Red Blood Cells Water link2
2009 "swine flu" vaccine ingredients: Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine, for intramuscular injection, is a sterile, clear, colorless to slightly opalescent suspension with some sediment that resuspends upon shaking to form a homogeneous suspension. Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine is prepared from influenza virus propagated in the allantoic fluid of embryonated chicken eggs. Following harvest, the virus is purified in a sucrose density gradient using a continuous flow zonal centrifuge. The purified virus is inactivated with beta-propiolactone, and the virus particles are disrupted using sodium taurodeoxycholate to produce a split virion. The disrupted virus is further purified and suspended in a phosphate buffered isotonic solution.
Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine is formulated to contain 15 mcg HA per 0.5 mL dose of influenza A/California/7/2009 (H1N1)v-like virus.
The bogus single-dose formulation was preservative-free; thimerosal, a mercury derivative, is not used in the manufacturing process for this formulation. The multi-dose formulation contains thimerosal, added as a preservative; each 0.5 mL dose contains 24.5 mcg of mercury.
A single 0.5 mL dose of Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine contains sodium chloride (4.1 mg), monobasic sodium phosphate (80 mcg), dibasic sodium phosphate (300 mcg), monobasic potassium phosphate (20 mcg), potassium chloride (20 mcg), and calcium chloride (1.5 mcg). From the manufacturing process, each dose may also contain residual amounts of sodium taurodeoxycholate (? 10 ppm), ovalbumin (? 1 mcg), neomycin sulfate (? 0.2 picograms [pg]), polymyxin B (? 0.03 pg), and beta-propiolactone. ref
Upon quick glance, the vaccines appear to contain thimerosal (mercury), gelatin (processed pigskins... Porcine gelatin (500 ?g/dose) is added as a stabilizer) and formaldehyde. Also, don't forget that MedImmune's Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Live, Intranasal will contain LIVE H1N1 "SWINE FLU" VIRUS.
Each 0.2 mL dose contains 106.5-7.5 FFU of the LIVE attenuated influenza virus reassortant of the pandemic (H1N1) 2009 virus: A/California/7/2009 (H1N1)v.
The shot form of vaccine is made by growing the virus in chicken eggs. New research is currently being explored that will use canine [dog] kidney cells, insect eggs, and human retina cells (possibly from aborted fetal tissues?). In 2005, the Bush administration allocated more than $7 billion to pharmaceutical companies for the production of these cell line factories. The virus is rendered inert by either the addition of formalin (an aqueous solution of formaldehyde) or by exposure to UV rays. The current swine flu vaccine used both methods to deactivate the virus... link
ps. MedImmune's Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Live, Intranasal will contain LIVE H1N1 "SWINE FLU" VIRUS. Non-government organization, intellectually honest health professionals agree that a person vaccinated with an intranasal A H1N1 live virus, (called live attenuated influenza vaccine [LAIV] rather than inactive component vaccines), is contagious; The live virus activated vaccine has the ability to spread flu, stated the National Vaccine Information Prevention Co-founder and President, Barbara Loe Fisher. "The live vaccine absolutely spreads the disease," stated Dr. Vera Sharav. (Sherry Beal, Healthy Planet, Healthy Me, KPFK Public Radio Interview cited in D. Dupre, H1N1 October Surprise Prevention, Examiner ,August 22, 2009) A live virus is in the vaccine being developed for American use by mid-October according to the Washington Post. (Terri Rupar, MedImmune Ramps Up H1N1 Vaccine, Washington Post, Saturday, August 1, 2009) MedImmune, part of global drugmaker AstraZeneca and one of five companies contracted to fast-track and sell an H1N1 vaccine to the federal government, is developing a nasal spray or drops (instead of injection) made of a live virus. (Rupar, August 1, 2009)
pigskin detail: Acid Pretreatment Process or Porcine Gelatin (Type A Gelatin)
Acid pretreatment is invariably used for porcine gelatin. Pigskins are first dehaired, usually by a combination of steam, rubber paddles, and flame (Farmer, et al., 1982). The pigskins may then be degreased by various methods, such as centrifuged in a rotating drum heated with steam to temperatures between 60° and 65° C. or approximately 150°-160°F. (Hinterwaldner, 1977a). Petroleum-based solvents such as tetrachloroethylene (TCE) may also be used to degrease animals, but this is less common than steam and mechanical methods because of safety and environmental issues (Norris, 1982). Hydrogen peroxide may be used to remove grease passed through a chopper or macerator to cut the skin into uniform sizes (Keenan, 1994). The skins are then soaked at a pH of 1 to 4 with a food-grade mineral acid such as hydrochloric (HCl), phosphoric (H3PO4), or sulfuric (H2SO4) acid for 8 to 30 hours (Hinterwaldner, 1977b; Keenan, 1994; Cole, 2000; Ledward, 2000). This treatment causes the material to swell to two to three times its pre-treatment volume (Ledward, 2000). The acid-treated pigskins are then washed with water to remove impurities. The skins are then extracted with hot water and the extract is filtered through an anion-cation exchange column to reduce ash or mineral levels. The gelatin extract is vacuum concentrated or ultra filtered to a concentration of between 15 and 35%, filtered, pH adjusted to between 3.5 and 6, evaporated to 50% solids, sterilized at temperatures between 248-303°F. for up to 13 seconds, chilled and extruded into noodles approximately 1/8 inch diameter, dried through a multi zone oven at 158°F., and milled to the specified particle size and packaged (Hinterwaldner, 1977a). Acid pretreatment is sometimes used for beef ossein, but this is relatively uncommon (Rose, 1990).
Thimerosal, squalene, and cancerous animal cells are far from the only concerns. Among other potentially dangerous chemicals and substances often found in influenza vaccines are formaldehyde, antibiotics, and even ethylene glycol, known as anti-freeze.
9.10.31 Much of europe is rejecting the 2009 poisoned "flu vaccine" In France last September over 55% claimed they would get vaccinated, now only 17% will consider the flu shot. Last week it was taken to the french courts when nine people formally filed charges that the H1N1 campaign is a deliberate attempt to poison the French population.
In Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel and her staff in addition to the German military received vaccinations that had the adjuvants and mercury preservatives removed. Not the same vaccine being mass marketed. Last July 51% Germans were willing to take the vaccine just 13% now say they are willing to take the shot.
Meanwhile, state media in Austria reports that yesterday, on the first day the H1N1 vaccine became available, less than ten people attended vaccine centers in the countrys fourth largest city, Salzburg.
The Flu Case website reports that a poll to be published later this week in Luxembourg indicates that 77% of the country has no intention of getting the vaccine, while 15% are undecided.
In addition, the site suggests that radio reports out of Poland have revealed only 3% of the population of Kraków, one of the countries largest cities, plan on taking the vaccination.
Mass rejection of the vaccine has been reported throughout Europe, with large portions of Danes, Finns, Spanish, Belgians and Dutch and British people also saying they do not intend to take the shot.
PS The nasal version of the flu vaccine contains LIVE virus, you are contagous after getting that flu shot...
fyi Oct 8, 2009 First daughters NOT getting the flu vaccineref "President Obama's school age daughters have not been vaccinated against the H1N1 flu virus. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs says the vaccine is not available to them based on their risk.
The Centers for Disease Control recommend that children ages 6 months through 18 years of age receive a vaccination against the H1N1 flu virus. At this time only children with chronic medical conditions are receiving the vaccination because their immune system is not strong enough to fight off the strain. The CDC also says a regular seasonal flu shot does not protect against the virus." (fyi those with "chronic medical conditions" are the ones most likely to die from 'complications' from these vaccines!)
Its amazing how you can make simple concepts so scary by throwing vocabulary at uninformed people are translating it "technically right"
Mercury = problem.
Oh wait... mix it with silver and you have your tooth filling; Which is safe.
Formaldehyde... scaaaary... Unless you chain it to some other stuff and call it Aspartame.
Everyone know that 99.9% of the population don't have two shits of an idea how chemistry works. People exploit this by trying to "simplify" and "translate" the ingredient list.
To a chemist, these arguments are absolutely laughable. Its much akin to saying...
Ingredients in a Car:
Steel - Common ingredient in knives, used to stab people.
Now follow that up by making the claim that cars will stab you.
Chemistry isn't simple. When somebody tries to "explain" or "simplify" things like this, most of the time they are simply manipulating you.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Nearly 5000 people worldwide are known to have died of swine flu so far. But on average 36,000 are said to die of flu each winter in the US alone. On the basis of such numbers, many have concluded - wrongly - that swine flu is less dangerous than normal flu.
These numbers should not be compared directly. The 36,000 figure comes from epidemiological studies. Because the timing of flu outbreaks varies from year to year, the normal number of deaths in any month can be compared with the number of deaths in the same month when there was a flu outbreak, says Lone Simonsen of George Washington University in Washington DC. Such studies reveal a bulge in deaths during and just after the flu season every year, mainly among the elderly. Many are clearly due to flu and other lung infections that can follow it, but more than half are not obviously connected, because flu often kills in indirect ways, by triggering heart attacks or strokes, for instance.
By contrast, the deaths attributed to swine flu are those directly caused by respiratory infection with the pandemic virus. Indirect deaths - the majority of the 36,000 figure for regular flu - are not being counted. The full death toll for 2009 H1N1 flu will not be known for a while, if ever.
Uhm.. actually they are. It was on the news several days ago.
Stop with the stupid fearmongering and unfounded rumors already, it just makes you look .. "uninformed.."
few days ago the story was, they wouldn't be receiving the vaccination because they were HIGH RISK.
one day later the story was that there was not enough to go around for his girls to get vaccinated.
one more day later the story is, they DID get vaccinated last week.
Now tell me, who's uninformed?
Want some real information: look here and especially watch this video .
You.
That stuff your linking is absolute garbage. No citation, no credible sources.
How about you all just listen to Devilicious; being that shes on several occasions made VERY strong cases for her association with medical knowledge...
If thats not enough, make a friend who has an education, lots of them could point you in the right direction.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Uhm.. actually they are. It was on the news several days ago.
Stop with the stupid fearmongering and unfounded rumors already, it just makes you look .. "uninformed.."
few days ago the story was, they wouldn't be receiving the vaccination because they were HIGH RISK.
one day later the story was that there was not enough to go around for his girls to get vaccinated.
one more day later the story is, they DID get vaccinated last week.
Now tell me, who's uninformed?
Want some real information: look here and especially watch this video .
You.
That stuff your linking is absolute garbage. No citation, no credible sources..
You can double check most of what's being said in the second video in the New England Journal of Medecine wich is the most well known and respected medical journal in the world, at least among people with some medical knowledge.
For example check these about the virus a-h1n1 virus that disappeared from 1958 to 1977
First daughters NOT getting the flu vaccineref "President Obama's school age daughters have not been vaccinated against the H1N1 flu virus. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs says the vaccine is not available to them based on their risk.
Taking a little bit of information and drawing conclusions from that tid bit is a dangerous thing.
Considering I am STILL having effects from by bout with the H1N1 and the secondary infections it caused 5 weeks after coming down with it, 2 weeks after recovering from it, The vaccine does not look like such a bad idea for those who need it.
I stand firm on my belief that it should NOT be mandatory, but for those that are high risk for complications, or are prone to coming down with infections such as strep, sinus/ear infections, bronchitis, pneumonia, digestive problems or have asthma or other conditions, I would recommend being vaccinated.
I am one of those that has had adult ear infections, including inner ear infections, and have been hospitalized with pneumonia as an adult in the past. I was higher risk for complications than most. Most have mild or no symptoms and have a speedy recovery. I am still having difficulty with my ear, and have had an uneasy stomach for weeks now. Those in a higher risk catagory should seek their physicians recommendation on whether or not they should be vaccinated with their conditions, and discuss the pros and cons from doing so.
Comments
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18056-swine-flu-myth-this-is-just-mild-flu-the-death-rates-are-even-lower-than-for-normal-flu.html
Well said on both posts.
This whole issue is really getting soo political its hard to get any points across.
I know im lucky. I'm involved in the sciences and I have many friends in medical Biochemistry and microbiology so I have ample resources, but It frightens me the amount of people who are so confused about whats going on.
Nobody bothers to listen to doctors or pharmacists anymore...
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
9.10.30
"The decline in infectious diseases in developed countries had nothing to do with vaccinations, but with the decline in poverty and hunger." - Dr Buchwald, M.D.
"Up to 90% of the total decline in the death rate of children between 1860-1965 because of whooping cough, scarlet fever, diphtheria, and measles occurred before the introduction of immunisations and antibiotics." - Dr Archie Kalokerinos, M.D link4
"The polio death rate was decreasing on its own before the vaccine was introduced, and there is no credible scientific evidence that the vaccine caused polio to disappear. Cases of polio increased after mass inoculations" link3
graphical ref
edit: image link
H1N1 is NOT "Swine flu" H1N1 was the 1918 Influenza pandemic (A strain, aka Spanish flu). Additional 1951 outbreak.
Mutates external proteins H protein Hemagglutinin, N protein Neuraminidase, human endemic; 3-5% mortality, 50M dead (500K US); about half the world's population including 1/4 of the US was infected, mortality est 5%. (i.e. Influenza may have killed as many as 25M in its first 25 weeks, in contrast AIDS killed 25M in its first 25 years.)
US army camp 5%mortality, brit army India white 9.6%mortality indian 21.9%m, fiji 14%m in 16days, Alaska natives 33%m (never contracted flu before);
Spanish flu (Orthomyxoviridae RNA virus, Influenza A strain, aka H1N1) 1918-1920 was the pandemic that killed about 50M (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2021692) (Patterson, KD; Pyle GF [Spring 1991]. "The geography and mortality of the 1918 influenza pandemic". Bull Hist Med. 65 [1]: 421.) (http://www.influenzareport.com/ir/overview.htm)
(i.e. fyi 1914-1918 WW1 killed about 37M [27M civilian] and the 1347-1351 Bubonic Plague [Yersinia pestis bacteria] killed about 75M with 30-75% mortality, ebola 90% mortality.)
There are only three known A subtypes of influenza viruses (1930 H1N1, H1N2, and 1968 H3N2) currently circulating among humans.
Types A (H&N subtypes, antigenic changes: gradual evolution [drift] or abrupt [shift]), B ([drift] seasonal epidemic, lower mortality) & C (mild) types; there are sixteen known H subtypes and nine known N subtypes of influenza A viruses; many different combinations of HA and NA proteins are possible. All known subtypes of influenza A viruses can be found in birds.
H2N2 was the 1957 Asian flu pandemic. 3M dead (70K US), from a 1956 China duck+human reassortment, where external protein exhibited reassortment/mixed genes with avian virus for new surface proteins (hence H2N2). Bird flu went extinct 2005... RNA segments, bsl-3 prevents airborn exposure... from possible 1889 russian flu 1M dead
1968 Hong Kong flu A H3N2 evolved-reassorted (by antigenic shift) from the 1957 H2N2 (killing about 750K humans) becoming dominant in 2006; having emerged and circulated from southeast asia containing genes from human (HA, NA, and PB1), swine (NS, NP, and M), and avian (PB2 and PA) lineages. 10% mortality, 1M dead (34K US [400K US todate persistant, 90% elderly]), (both H2N2 & H3N2 contain avian flu [H5N1] genes) By 1991 H3N2, (aka SWINE FLU,) was only 1% resistant to standard antiviral drugs, by 2005 swine flu was 91% resistant and today 2009 it is 100% resistant (i.e. amantadine and rimantadine.) H3N2 virus can remain infectious for weeks in the open environment...
Current commercial vaccines can not (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1899866) effectively protect pigs from infection in the majority of H3N2 viruses. 2002 stolen samples (http://www.rense.com/general29/swine.htm)
68 single measles vaccine
72-76 grid (aids went public 1981), antiretroviral (HighlyActiveART) and monoclonal (MAb, [naziesk ascites harvest]) vs recombinant (viral gene segment engineering-fermentation [classified apoptosis cancer research]) antibody cancer therapies
1976 fort dix H1N1 A outbreak ("accidental refrigerator release")
1977 russian flu A/ussr/90/77 H1N1, low mort, "possibly reappeared due to seasonal flu vaccine" after a 20yr absence (identical to the 1951 H1N1 A)
'88 MMR vaccination intro
1995 H7N7 is the duck virus (Netherlands 2003 fatal)
1997 H5N1 is the 1959 chicken virus; 1968 H3N2 Hong Kong flu by 1993 this HK flu had reassorted with 1968 avian H3Nx & 1930 swine strains into today's lethal H3N2 swine flu version that has steadily increased resistance to standard antiviral drugs.
After the 1997 Bird flu (H5N1, A/Hong Kong/156/97 and A/Chicken/Hong Kong/258/97) broke out in Hong Kong, on December 28, 1997 veterinary authorities began to slaughter all (1.6 million) chickens present in wholesale facilities or vendors within Hong Kong, and importation of chickens from neighboring areas was stopped; because the case-fatality rates were 18% in children and 57% in adults older than 17 years.
A year after the '97 Avian-Bird flu (H5N1) epidemic several countries had severe local outbreaks or epidemics of interpandemic variant A/Sydney/5/97 (H3N2)-like viruses (i.e. Swine flu). Currently 69% mortality (esp Indonesia and Thailand 2006)
The epizootic Bird flu (Avian Influenza, Hemagglutinin5Neuraminidase1 type, aka H5N1) evolved in 1997 Hong Kong crossing over to humans (from duck, chicken, turkey, pig, whale, horse, and seal host's saliva, nasal secretions, feces and blood) with a 30% mortality, by 2005 50% mortality; (first detected 1975 in US, LPAI H5N1 low pathogenic in Wisconsin duck & goose, enzootic in many bird populations.)
H5N1 remains infectious at 0°C ( 32.0°F) or 6 days at 37°C ( 98.6°F). 100% fatal in birds within 48 hours.
oct'04-feb'05 Meridian Bioscience Inc Cleveland erroneously distributed to about 4600 laboratories in eighteen countries lyophilized (vacuum frozen-preserved) A/Japan/305/57 H2N2 unlabeled vials (a pandemic virus not in circulation since 1968) worldwide in proficiency panels for quality control assessment, specimens were from the US College of American Pathologists and other providers; the H2N2 was not detected until Mar 2005, EIGHT months later; so much for worldwide detection proficiency!
2006 bayer inc & USfda knew a hemophiliac drug was contaminated with live hiv, it was removed from US and then dumped in european/asian/latin markets
2008 baxter corp mixed wild avian A h5n1 (BSL3+) into human B h3n2 "experimental virus material" from Orth-Donau, Austria through December-Feb; Avir Green Hills Biotechnology sent the samples to 4 countries (trying to provoke a reassortment pandemic?) baxter claimed "trade secrets/proprietary info" in their production process to partially elaborate in the investigation, no baxter official were prosecuted.
Replikins are short fragments of the genomes of infectious organisms, which have been found to be related quantitatively to rapid replication and epidemic outbreaks
2006 Antiviral drugs (e.g., oseltamivir, amantadine, rimantadine, zanamivir)
In 2003: 1st was heart disease 654K, 2 cancer 550K, 3 stroke 150K, 4 chronic lower resp 123K, 5 accident 108K, 6 diabetes 72K, 7 Alzheimer's 65K, 8 influenza/pneumonia 61K.
In 2007 hospital mistakes were the 4th leading cause of death @ 97K
The annual flu kills about 36K humans in the US yearly. There are over 100 subtypes (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genomes/FLU/flubiology.html) of the Influenza A virus.
us$5 to 8 each.
Tamiflu 75mg Capsules
Oseltamivir phosphate - The active ingredient in Tamiflu
Black iron oxide (E172)
Croscarmellose Sodium
FD and C Blue 2 (indigo carmine, E132) A synthetic dye
Gelatin A protein product traditionally made with animal byproducts
Oseltamivir
Povidone
Pregelatinised maize starch
Red iron oxide (E172)
Shellac A "natural plastic" secreted from the female lac insect
Sodium Stearyl Fumarate
Talc Preliminary links between talc and pulmonary issues, lung cancer, skin cancer and ovarian cancer have been established in studies
Titanium dioxide (E171)
Yellow iron oxide (E172)
Tamiflu 12mg/ml Oral Suspension
Oseltamivir
Saccharin sodium (E954) A chemical sweetener linked to cancer in some studies
Sodium benzoate (E211) When combined with absorbic acid (vitamin C), sodium benzoate can form benzene, a known carcinogen
Sodium dihydrogen citrate (E331 (a))
Sorbitol (E420) A sugar substitute that can cause gastrointestinal problems
Titanium dioxide (E171)
Tutti Frutti flavour
Maltodextrins (maize)
Propylene glycol Although generally recognized as safe (GRAS) by the FDA, propylene glycol is used as a food-grade antifreeze and is the primary ingredient of the paint inside a paintball
Arabic gum (E414)
Natural identical flavouring substances(mainly consisting of banana, pineapple and peach flavour)
Xantham gum (E415)
Alpha-Tocopherol - A form of Vitamin E.
Aluminum Hydroxide
Aluminum Phosphate
Ammonium Sulfate - An inorganic salt used as a soil fertilizer.
Amphotercin B - Polyene antifungal drug.
Animal Tissues (pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain, dog kidney, monkey kidney)
Arginine - An amino acid.
Beta-Propiolactone - An organic compound of the lactone family. (lactone - a cyclic ester)
Calcium Chloride - A common salt.
Calf Bovine Serum - Fetal bovine serum.
Chicken Egg
Chick Embryo
Duck Egg
Dibasic Potassium Phosphate - Phosphoric Acid
Dibasic Sodium Phosphate - A sodium salt of phosphoric acid.
Disodium Phosphate - A sodium salt of phosphoric acid.
Fetal Bovine Serum - Comes from blood drawn from unborn bovine (cow) fetus.
Formaldehyde - A carcinogen.
Formalin - Formaldehyde
Gelatin - Produced from selected pieces of calf and cattle skins, de-mineralized cattle bones and pork skin.
Gentamicin Sulfate - An aminoglycoside antibiotic.
Glycerol - Glycerin
Hemagglutinin - A substance that causes red blood cells to agglutinate.
Human Diploid Cells - Originating from human aborted fetal tissue.
Hydrocortisone
Hydrolized Gelatin - Hydrolized collagen used to strengthen connective tissue.
Magnesium Chloride - Salt that is an iconic halide.
Monobasic Potassium Phosphate - A chemical compound of sodium with a phosphate.
Monosodium Glutamate - MSG
Neomycin
Neomycin Sulfate - Neomycin
Nonoxynol 9 - Used in cleaners, cosmetics and spermicidal.
Octoxynol 10 - Used as a spermicidal agent.
Ovalbumin - Main protein found in egg white.
Phenol Red Indicator - Used as PH indicator.
Phenoxyethanol - Bactericide
Polyethlyene Glycol P - Is ocytylphenyl ether. Carbowax.
Polymyxin B - Antibiotic
Polysorbate 20 - Polysorbate surficant. Used in detergent.
Polysorbate 80 - Preservative that causes infertility in mice. Used in foods.
Porcine (pig) Pancreatic Hydrolysate of Casein
Potassium Chloride - Metal halide salt composed of potassium and chlorine.
Potassium Dihydrogen Phosphate - Soluble salt used as a fertilizer, food additive and fungicide.
Potassium Diphosphate
Potassium Monophosphate - Phosphate Salt
Sodium Deoxycholate - Bile Acid
Sodium Taurodeoxycholate - A bile salt formed in the liver.
Sorbitol
Squalene - Developed from shark liver oil.
Sucrose
Thimerosal - Mercury containing compound.
Tri(n) Butylphosphate - Used as an extractant and plasticizer.
Vero Cells - A continuous line of monkey cells.
Washed Sheep Red Blood Cells
Water
link2
2009 "swine flu" vaccine ingredients:
Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine, for intramuscular injection, is a sterile, clear, colorless to slightly opalescent suspension with some sediment that resuspends upon shaking to form a homogeneous suspension. Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine is prepared from influenza virus propagated in the allantoic fluid of embryonated chicken eggs. Following harvest, the virus is purified in a sucrose density gradient using a continuous flow zonal centrifuge. The purified virus is inactivated with beta-propiolactone, and the virus particles are disrupted using sodium taurodeoxycholate to produce a split virion. The disrupted virus is further purified and suspended in a phosphate buffered isotonic solution.
Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine is formulated to contain 15 mcg HA per 0.5 mL dose of influenza A/California/7/2009 (H1N1)v-like virus.
The bogus single-dose formulation was preservative-free; thimerosal, a mercury derivative, is not used in the manufacturing process for this formulation. The multi-dose formulation contains thimerosal, added as a preservative; each 0.5 mL dose contains 24.5 mcg of mercury.
A single 0.5 mL dose of Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine contains sodium chloride (4.1 mg), monobasic sodium phosphate (80 mcg), dibasic sodium phosphate (300 mcg), monobasic potassium phosphate (20 mcg), potassium chloride (20 mcg), and calcium chloride (1.5 mcg). From the manufacturing process, each dose may also contain residual amounts of sodium taurodeoxycholate (? 10 ppm), ovalbumin (? 1 mcg), neomycin sulfate (? 0.2 picograms [pg]), polymyxin B (? 0.03 pg), and beta-propiolactone.
ref
Upon quick glance, the vaccines appear to contain thimerosal (mercury), gelatin (processed pigskins... Porcine gelatin (500 ?g/dose) is added as a stabilizer) and formaldehyde. Also, don't forget that MedImmune's Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Live, Intranasal will contain LIVE H1N1 "SWINE FLU" VIRUS.
Each 0.2 mL dose contains 106.5-7.5 FFU of the LIVE attenuated influenza virus reassortant of the pandemic (H1N1) 2009 virus: A/California/7/2009 (H1N1)v.
The shot form of vaccine is made by growing the virus in chicken eggs. New research is currently being explored that will use canine [dog] kidney cells, insect eggs, and human retina cells (possibly from aborted fetal tissues?). In 2005, the Bush administration allocated more than $7 billion to pharmaceutical companies for the production of these cell line factories. The virus is rendered inert by either the addition of formalin (an aqueous solution of formaldehyde) or by exposure to UV rays. The current swine flu vaccine used both methods to deactivate the virus...
link
ps.
MedImmune's Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Live, Intranasal will contain LIVE H1N1 "SWINE FLU" VIRUS. Non-government organization, intellectually honest health professionals agree that a person vaccinated with an intranasal A H1N1 live virus, (called live attenuated influenza vaccine [LAIV] rather than inactive component vaccines), is contagious; The live virus activated vaccine has the ability to spread flu, stated the National Vaccine Information Prevention Co-founder and President, Barbara Loe Fisher.
"The live vaccine absolutely spreads the disease," stated Dr. Vera Sharav. (Sherry Beal, Healthy Planet, Healthy Me, KPFK Public Radio Interview cited in D. Dupre, H1N1 October Surprise Prevention, Examiner ,August 22, 2009)
A live virus is in the vaccine being developed for American use by mid-October according to the Washington Post. (Terri Rupar, MedImmune Ramps Up H1N1 Vaccine, Washington Post, Saturday, August 1, 2009)
MedImmune, part of global drugmaker AstraZeneca and one of five companies contracted to fast-track and sell an H1N1 vaccine to the federal government, is developing a nasal spray or drops (instead of injection) made of a live virus. (Rupar, August 1, 2009)
pigskin detail:
Acid Pretreatment Process or Porcine Gelatin (Type A Gelatin)
Acid pretreatment is invariably used for porcine gelatin. Pigskins are first dehaired, usually by a combination of steam, rubber paddles, and flame (Farmer, et al., 1982). The pigskins may then be degreased by various methods, such as centrifuged in a rotating drum heated with steam to temperatures between 60° and 65° C. or approximately 150°-160°F. (Hinterwaldner, 1977a). Petroleum-based solvents such as tetrachloroethylene (TCE) may also be used to degrease animals, but this is less common than steam and mechanical methods because of safety and environmental issues (Norris, 1982). Hydrogen peroxide may be used to remove grease passed through a chopper or macerator to cut the skin into uniform sizes (Keenan, 1994). The skins are then soaked at a pH of 1 to 4 with a food-grade mineral acid such as hydrochloric (HCl), phosphoric (H3PO4), or sulfuric (H2SO4) acid for 8 to 30 hours (Hinterwaldner, 1977b; Keenan, 1994; Cole, 2000; Ledward, 2000). This treatment causes the material to swell to two to three times its pre-treatment volume (Ledward, 2000). The acid-treated pigskins are then washed with water to remove impurities. The skins are then extracted with hot water and the extract is filtered through an anion-cation exchange column to reduce ash or mineral levels. The gelatin extract is vacuum concentrated or ultra filtered to a concentration of between 15 and 35%, filtered, pH adjusted to between 3.5 and 6, evaporated to 50% solids, sterilized at temperatures between 248-303°F. for up to 13 seconds, chilled and extruded into noodles approximately 1/8 inch diameter, dried through a multi zone oven at 158°F., and milled to the specified particle size and packaged (Hinterwaldner, 1977a). Acid pretreatment is sometimes used for beef ossein, but this is relatively uncommon (Rose, 1990).
Thimerosal, squalene, and cancerous animal cells are far from the only concerns. Among other potentially dangerous chemicals and substances often found in influenza vaccines are formaldehyde, antibiotics, and even ethylene glycol, known as anti-freeze.
Vaccine vs mortality statistics
Uhm.. actually they are. It was on the news several days ago.
Stop with the stupid fearmongering and unfounded rumors already, it just makes you look .. "uninformed.."
9.10.31
Much of europe is rejecting the 2009 poisoned "flu vaccine"
In France last September over 55% claimed they would get vaccinated, now only 17% will consider the flu shot.
Last week it was taken to the french courts when nine people formally filed charges that the H1N1 campaign is a deliberate attempt to poison the French population.
In Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel and her staff in addition to the German military received vaccinations that had the adjuvants and mercury preservatives removed. Not the same vaccine being mass marketed. Last July 51% Germans were willing to take the vaccine just 13% now say they are willing to take the shot.
Meanwhile, state media in Austria reports that yesterday, on the first day the H1N1 vaccine became available, less than ten people attended vaccine centers in the countrys fourth largest city, Salzburg.
The Flu Case website reports that a poll to be published later this week in Luxembourg indicates that 77% of the country has no intention of getting the vaccine, while 15% are undecided.
In addition, the site suggests that radio reports out of Poland have revealed only 3% of the population of Kraków, one of the countries largest cities, plan on taking the vaccination.
Mass rejection of the vaccine has been reported throughout Europe, with large portions of Danes, Finns, Spanish, Belgians and Dutch and British people also saying they do not intend to take the shot.
PS
The nasal version of the flu vaccine contains LIVE virus, you are contagous after getting that flu shot...
fyi Oct 8, 2009
First daughters NOT getting the flu vaccine ref "President Obama's school age daughters have not been vaccinated against the H1N1 flu virus. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs says the vaccine is not available to them based on their risk.
The Centers for Disease Control recommend that children ages 6 months through 18 years of age receive a vaccination against the H1N1 flu virus. At this time only children with chronic medical conditions are receiving the vaccination because their immune system is not strong enough to fight off the strain. The CDC also says a regular seasonal flu shot does not protect against the virus." (fyi those with "chronic medical conditions" are the ones most likely to die from 'complications' from these vaccines!)
Wow Bhug.
Its amazing how you can make simple concepts so scary by throwing vocabulary at uninformed people are translating it "technically right"
Mercury = problem.
Oh wait... mix it with silver and you have your tooth filling; Which is safe.
Formaldehyde... scaaaary... Unless you chain it to some other stuff and call it Aspartame.
Everyone know that 99.9% of the population don't have two shits of an idea how chemistry works. People exploit this by trying to "simplify" and "translate" the ingredient list.
To a chemist, these arguments are absolutely laughable. Its much akin to saying...
Ingredients in a Car:
Steel - Common ingredient in knives, used to stab people.
Now follow that up by making the claim that cars will stab you.
Chemistry isn't simple. When somebody tries to "explain" or "simplify" things like this, most of the time they are simply manipulating you.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
There is something that doesn't add up here.
On one hand they say that the new flu is less dangerous than the normal one.
On the other hand, they spend milions on vaccines and campaings which they never did before for the normal one.
So someone is lying here.
Or it is more dangerous than they say, or they are just trying to make money through vaccines.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18056-swine-flu-myth-this-is-just-mild-flu-the-death-rates-are-even-lower-than-for-normal-flu.html
Seems those guys at newscientist are eager to sell a lot of vaccines.
Uhm.. actually they are. It was on the news several days ago.
Stop with the stupid fearmongering and unfounded rumors already, it just makes you look .. "uninformed.."
Now tell me, who's uninformed?
Want some real information: look here and especially watch this video .
Uhm.. actually they are. It was on the news several days ago.
Stop with the stupid fearmongering and unfounded rumors already, it just makes you look .. "uninformed.."
Now tell me, who's uninformed?
Want some real information: look here and especially watch this video .
You.
That stuff your linking is absolute garbage. No citation, no credible sources.
How about you all just listen to Devilicious; being that shes on several occasions made VERY strong cases for her association with medical knowledge...
If thats not enough, make a friend who has an education, lots of them could point you in the right direction.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Uhm.. actually they are. It was on the news several days ago.
Stop with the stupid fearmongering and unfounded rumors already, it just makes you look .. "uninformed.."
Now tell me, who's uninformed?
Want some real information: look here and especially watch this video .
You.
That stuff your linking is absolute garbage. No citation, no credible sources..
You can double check most of what's being said in the second video in the New England Journal of Medecine wich is the most well known and respected medical journal in the world, at least among people with some medical knowledge.
For example check these about the virus a-h1n1 virus that disappeared from 1958 to 1977
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/360/25/2667
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/361/3/279
And in the link to the web site, on most entries you can find a link to the original article and sources.
Wrong again. http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/10/27/first-daughters-get-h1n1-vaccine/
Personally we don't care if you get vaccinated. If you die from flu, that is your problem, not ours.
Taking a little bit of information and drawing conclusions from that tid bit is a dangerous thing.
Considering I am STILL having effects from by bout with the H1N1 and the secondary infections it caused 5 weeks after coming down with it, 2 weeks after recovering from it, The vaccine does not look like such a bad idea for those who need it.
I stand firm on my belief that it should NOT be mandatory, but for those that are high risk for complications, or are prone to coming down with infections such as strep, sinus/ear infections, bronchitis, pneumonia, digestive problems or have asthma or other conditions, I would recommend being vaccinated.
I am one of those that has had adult ear infections, including inner ear infections, and have been hospitalized with pneumonia as an adult in the past. I was higher risk for complications than most. Most have mild or no symptoms and have a speedy recovery. I am still having difficulty with my ear, and have had an uneasy stomach for weeks now. Those in a higher risk catagory should seek their physicians recommendation on whether or not they should be vaccinated with their conditions, and discuss the pros and cons from doing so.