i think its a grind but i dont mind i have to just think that its only been a week and 1 day and im already lvl 35 and cap is lvl 50 lol plus the fact that it is a really new game still and im sure someday they add more quest more areas to go stuff like that :P
You know there were some of us on these forums before the game came out that were telling potential players that Aion was just like any other Asian grinder. We were laughed at and called haters and told to go crawl back under whatever rock we came from. The truth is now coming out. Not that I like doing this. BUT SOME OF US TOLD YOU SO!
I'm not into namecalling but I'll still laugh at you because this isn't like supposed "grinding" games I've played before. If anything, you could complain that besides the potential for PvP this game isn't anything really new at all compared to other mmos.
But saying it's a grinder is just bandwagone flair any more unless you just recently got into mmorpgs. This game is nothing like the type of grinding you used to have to do in mmorpgs.
Not to mention that all mmos have their grinds so never really understood how that was a valid argument to begin with, but boy is it ever the new flavor of the month debate tactic.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
It seems like a lot of you are missing the point of my earlier argument. I am not saying that we should level more quickly in Aion. I don't mind a significant level treadmill or working towards a goal. As many of you have already mentioned, this is the core to MMO gameplay. What I do mind is LACK of content along the way. There should be enough quests to level oneself all the way from 1 to 50. There should be NO point in the game where you have to sit in one place and grind the same mobs for 2 days straight (casual style) to level up. That is just not fun and it is evidence of lazy game design. And before you tell me to go back to <insert your favorite game to bash here>, why don't you actually sit back and consider the points made here. I am not saying that any game is better than Aion. I am not advertising for any other title. I am simply saying that they have some serious issues at the moment which will keep many people from reaching the end game. Once again, I feel that this is a game that was released perhaps a little bit too early... at least for the western market. It would be one thing if the game was a mob grindfest from the beginning, but they started it out in such a way as to make us all expect that it would be a questing game all the way through. Failing to deliver nearly enough content to meet that expectation is a big failure on NcSoft's part.
I can't say if the game has enough quests to get you to 50. I CAN say that people are not finding the quests. I have so many quests that I have yet to finish. because regular playing has led me to different things.
But at one point, probably about 28, I thought "I might as well finish up these quests to pad my xp a bit" and ended up getting most of that level.
Does this game have enough quests to mirror wow? no, of course not. But if people would just do a bit of exploring they might be surprised what they find.
Are the quests going to be any different than "hey, the blarghs are causing us trouble, if you can kill a whole much of them, let's say 25, it would really help us out"? Probably not. But at the end of that quest you are going to get a nice chunk of xp. There are several quests that just have you travel around and ask npc's things. Not stellar quest writing but 125k xp of me relaxing and seeing the sites. Then out to the abyss to hang, grind and pvp a bit. I come from Lineage 2 so that is what I'm used to, I have no problems just grinding for grinding's sake. But I can tell the difference between "oh, I have nothing to do other than stay in one place and grind mobs" and "I have quests that ask me to grind mobs but I also get a reward and xp for doing that quest".
I really do think that players need to be hooked into the pvp part, at least to some extent. Regardless of what NC says about being equally pve and pvp. The pvp really is the hook in my opinion. At least for me. If a person has no intentioin of pvp'ing and isn't totally enamored of the game world and art design then I don't see how they are going to like Aion.
But that's just my opinion.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The game world is way too small to support the leveling curve. There is nothing wrong with a long leveling curve if there is plenty of fun content to keep you entertained along the way. The game only has enough content for a short leveling curve, which is why it feels so grindy.
I don't really see the game entertaining much at end game. The game world is too small for a non-grindy, long leveling curve, but the game doesn't have much to offer beyond it's leveling curve.
The game is fatally flawed. Making the leveling curve shorter isn't going to help anything. The game has been out a year in Korea with very little expansion to the game world, so don't count on steady, free updates to flesh the game out.
The game is a "dead man walking". It's fate is sealed.
I had thought Aion's subscription drop off would probably look a lot like the curve we have seen with WAR, but I now think it's going to look more like the drop off we saw with AoC.
Aion did a lot of little things right and they definitely set a new standard for character creation. (Kudos as well that with all the body proportion modifications I haven't really seen any clipping issues with the armors even on the most extreme body types). It's just that they fail on over all game concept and world design.
Why is it that so many people think a game should be either a PVE game or a PVP game? What's wrong with a game that is looking to appeal to people who find both PVE and PVP important?
It's not like we have a shortage of PVP or PVE games.
Flontar: You're actually completely wrong. There has been a number of content updates and NCsoft is planning one major update every year. Also, what part of the game has already been released in asia for months is hard to understand? It's already way past Age of Conan or Warhammer as it hasn't dropped in subscribers, it only increased them.
It is a grind. Your casual gamer isn't going to play 10+ hrs a day. The people getting to 40 are you players that will sit and play for 6+ hrs a day. Tell the truth. Once you hit a certain level like say 10, the time it takes increases expotentially. By the time you hit 20 it is getting up there. Those people in their 40's are having to grind a few days to gain one level. So that means sitting in a chair for 10+ hrs a day everyday to go anywhere. Will they hit 50 by the end of the month. Yep. If they do nothing but game all the time. If anyone here says they are casual gamer and are in their 40's all ready they are full of it.
So because the cap level isn't reached in the first free month that comes with the game, that means it's an asian grinder?
In games that actually fit the definition of asian grinder, such as Lineage 2, RF online and Ragnarok Online, it could take up to a year of dedicated playing to reach the cap.
People are already nearing the cap just two weeks after release and you still try to say Aion is the same kind of game with a straigth face?
It is a grind. Your casual gamer isn't going to play 10+ hrs a day. The people getting to 40 are you players that will sit and play for 6+ hrs a day. Tell the truth. Once you hit a certain level like say 10, the time it takes increases expotentially. By the time you hit 20 it is getting up there. Those people in their 40's are having to grind a few days to gain one level. So that means sitting in a chair for 10+ hrs a day everyday to go anywhere. Will they hit 50 by the end of the month. Yep. If they do nothing but game all the time. If anyone here says they are casual gamer and are in their 40's all ready they are full of it.
So because the cap level isn't reached in the first free month that comes with the game, that means it's an asian grinder?
In games that actually fit the definition of asian grinder, such as Lineage 2, RF online and Ragnarok Online, it could take up to a year of dedicated playing to reach the cap.
People are already nearing the cap just two weeks after release and you still try to say Aion is the same kind of game with a straigth face?
Yeah...the people that play it 6+ hours a day will be near cap. I will not be surprised at all to see people hit 50 before the free mont his up...but those that do are not casual gamers. The people all ready into their 30's and 40's are not casual gamers by any stretch of imagination.
You're actually both right. Aion is nothing like the grinders of the past. In those games even sitting for 10+ hours per day and you'd still need a year to reach the level cap. This is hardly the case with this game.
On the other hand, those in the 40+ range can hardly be considered casuals, by any stretch of the definition.
It is a grind. Your casual gamer isn't going to play 10+ hrs a day. The people getting to 40 are you players that will sit and play for 6+ hrs a day. Tell the truth. Once you hit a certain level like say 10, the time it takes increases expotentially. By the time you hit 20 it is getting up there. Those people in their 40's are having to grind a few days to gain one level. So that means sitting in a chair for 10+ hrs a day everyday to go anywhere. Will they hit 50 by the end of the month. Yep. If they do nothing but game all the time. If anyone here says they are casual gamer and are in their 40's all ready they are full of it.
So because the cap level isn't reached in the first free month that comes with the game, that means it's an asian grinder?
In games that actually fit the definition of asian grinder, such as Lineage 2, RF online and Ragnarok Online, it could take up to a year of dedicated playing to reach the cap.
People are already nearing the cap just two weeks after release and you still try to say Aion is the same kind of game with a straigth face?
Yeah...the people that play it 6+ hours a day will be near cap. I will not be surprised at all to see people hit 50 before the free mont his up...but those that do are not casual gamers. The people all ready into their 30's and 40's are not casual gamers by any stretch of imagination.
Okay so let's say that people who play 6+ hours will be near the cap. We're now 2 weeks from release and players had to struggle with long que times.
So that means a person who plays 3 hours a day will be near the cap in about a month. This is now an asian grind? This is comparable to games like WoW, Lotro and Everquest 2. Are those asian grinders as well?
Okay so let's say that people who play 6+ hours will be near the cap. We're now 2 weeks from release and players had to struggle with long que times. So that means a person who plays 3 hours a day will be near the cap in about a month. This is now an asian grind? This is comparable to games like WoW, Lotro and Everquest 2. Are those asian grinders as well?
Actually, those games are probably more grind than Aion is. The difference is the back end of it that is making them notice it more, and thats the PL side. In WoW you could easily grab your 80 and bring your friend up 20 levels a day. In Aion you can't. If your too high level your low level friend gets basically nada, and that includes loot drops. Aion forces you to play your way up the levels, and to many thats a grind fest.
As for the casual/hardcore argument, the ones complaining Aion is a grindfest are the hardcore. Those that are push-push-pushing thier way towards endgame as fast as they can, hour after hour everyday. They are the ones complaining about the grind. Not because there is more of it, but because they aren't enjoying thier play time, they are just grinding for the end-game......period. How many casual players do you honestly see complaining about it??
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Personally, my issue is that yes, the grind is more than I want to put effort into.
I've been playing MMO's since I was 13 and I'm soon to be 25. I've played all sorts, ranging from Eastern to Western and everything counted in between, but the problem with a game like AION is that it wants to be accepted by the mainstream games, and it is warm and inviting for the first 20 levels, but afterwards, it becomes like a second job.
As a graduate student who is working and doing an internship, the last thing I want is to sit down and play 6 hours a night to gain half a level after I reach level 25 or so; just to attempt to enjoy it. Yes, I accept that work must be done in order to enjoy something, but my work and education is something that is much more important to me to spend my time on then getting a second job (third if you count an internship a job), and call that my "relaxation time".
No, I don't expect to reach level cap within a week of playing it, yes, I understand that there are players out there that have gone so hard they've leveled to cap within days, and there will always be those people. But if a developer is insisting on making it work to reach level cap, then at least give me something interesting to do while I'm on my way there. Fighting for bag space, having spirit masters and sorcerers steal my kills, never getting any decent loot drops, having crafting that literally takes hours (though the gathering has been enjoyable and well implemented), having crafting that's a pain in the ASS to level up even when making things that is on par to your current skill, being forced into PvP to get decent quest/gear and getting ganked by those who have no lives and are already reaching level 35+... THIS is what I do not call enjoyable, and this is why grinding, kill-by-kill, becomes such an issue in current games.
Yes, I also understand that a game such as this requires grouping, and trust me, I have tried. The problem though, is one that many have stated, is WoW. Because of this, there are far too many people attempting to grind all this out solo and don't want to deal with the rest of the games population, and furthermore, many of these people who have only ever played WoW and now think they're hardcore PvP'ing are becoming ninja's to get the decent loot you DO get when you're grouped. When dealing with this mindset within this current community, its just not worth the frustration.
Maybe the game will settle down in a few months and it may be easier then to level and do things... but then the issue comes that there won't be many new/starting players because the game isn't inviting to new players after the reviews and the disgruntled players bitching, which makes it hard to level due to lack of support and groups.
Its a vicious cycle.
"And after blizzard takes over the world, they are gonna gather a bunch of lemmings, sit on their fat asses near a cliff, and watch the little fuzzy bastards suicide dive into the ground below. . . . . all just for their own entertainment."
Anyways, I know there's a lot of hardcore players that see a reduction in grind as destroying the challenge in an MMO. But the fact is Aion is a PvP game mostly, so if you're looking for a challenge you should look into the PvP aspect not the grind. The grind has nothing to do with PvP or RvR and it's quite frankly ruining the experience; it's only purpose is to satisfy the Asian market who likes these types of MMOs and here on the west they need to rethink what they're doing.
This game is PvPvE and I like it the way it is.Fighting mobs even the low level one can whoop your ass and they hit hard and of course it takes longer than other mmos to put them down.
Most people whining, want it to be the wow way and there's already a lot of easy game on the market,so don`t you dare touch my Mumu.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
Okay so let's say that people who play 6+ hours will be near the cap. We're now 2 weeks from release and players had to struggle with long que times. So that means a person who plays 3 hours a day will be near the cap in about a month. This is now an asian grind? This is comparable to games like WoW, Lotro and Everquest 2. Are those asian grinders as well?
Actually, those games are probably more grind than Aion is. The difference is the back end of it that is making them notice it more, and thats the PL side. In WoW you could easily grab your 80 and bring your friend up 20 levels a day. In Aion you can't. If your too high level your low level friend gets basically nada, and that includes loot drops. Aion forces you to play your way up the levels, and to many thats a grind fest.
As for the casual/hardcore argument, the ones complaining Aion is a grindfest are the hardcore. Those that are push-push-pushing thier way towards endgame as fast as they can, hour after hour everyday. They are the ones complaining about the grind. Not because there is more of it, but because they aren't enjoying thier play time, they are just grinding for the end-game......period. How many casual players do you honestly see complaining about it??
I totally agree and the most amazing thing for me is that I don't feel the urge to level fast as there are so many things to do and places to go.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
I find people who complain about "Grind" in a game where you start at lvl 1... and have to get exp to get stronger... to be silly... if you dont like getting exp... and what everything just handed to you on a silver platter... then go play a single player game.
Silly ? And why is that ? People don't complain about needing to get xp, they complain about having to kill the same mobs over and over (i.e. what a dumbass monkey could do) to get the xp. Unless you like being treated like that dumbass monkey, and, on top of that, like to pay to perform the same actions for hours n hours (like a guinea pig in a lab ?) then yeah, as a human being, u don't like doing the same stuff, over n over n over n over n over n over n over again.
Maybe this would work once for newbie mmo gamers cuz of all the "new" feeling, but for peeps who had to endure it in EQ (and at least it had its VERY rewarding raids behind, that shown a little light), and in L2 (where, well grind was grind, just to lvl up).
And to say that the game was not advertised as a "no grind" is true, but whenever someone mentionned grindfest during beta, all the fanbois were crying out "oh noes there are teh quests they give so much xp"...
Anyway, for AION, give em some time, they might adjust their game to its respective market, or when zillions of carebear will cry about being griefed while trying to grind their chunk of xp in the Abyss.
For my pov grinding's probably the most stupid thing in the world, it's like paying to be a factory worker back in the 50s and the beginning of taylorism, but if u do it casually then it passes; at least AION got the gankfest to distract you from it !
You're a Hardcore Survivor!
You not only survived the zombie apocalypse, but did it with style! Your mastery of zombie knowledge, survival tactics, and weaponry is nearly unmatched. Congratulations, for you are hardcore!
You know I'd love to play Aion. Seriously. What I have an issue with is the grind to get to be able to PvP. Plus the TTK for MOB's is atrocious. Plus the bland quest...OMG at least in games like WoW we have some very interesting quest and quest lines worth following. Another thing that really annoys me is the flying or the lack of it in the earlier stages and later. I just don't understand the reason for the no-fly zones. If NCSoft developers were so worried about people skipping content, then they should have put off flying until they hit 50 and set up the game accordingly. As it is now it really blows that they limit your flight time and where you can fly. I'd rather see mounts added for the earlier stages and flight being something you achieve at 50.
Then there is the totally linear game play and the fact that there is only 1 starter zone per race. That means doing the same quest and going the same path when you run an alt.
As for the PvP. I am a huge PvP fan so this game is my type of game, however, having played my shae of games with PvP aspects of games centered around PvP like DAoC, Planetside, WoW, AC2(Coldeve server), AC(Darktide) and etc, etc, Aion's just missing something...it wasn't clicking with me. I really tried to like the game...it just wasn't for me.
I remember a time at the beginning of WoW when it took months to hit max level. As a regular player, a bit more than casual, it took me no less than two months to hit 60. Nobody complained about the leveling, or the content gaps - yes, WoW had content gaps at launch - and having to grind out certain levels (mainly 57-60 on scarlet lumberjacks), people just enjoyed the game. Even when you hit max level you had to grind rep; don't get me started on the furbolg grind to get recipes, or the argent dawn cauldron grind *shudder*.
This game has been out two weeks and people are already nearing the level cap, and yet it's too grindy. Give me a fucking break. I know you're all spoiled by today's 1 week to cap WoW, but really, 2-3 weeks to hit cap isn't that grindy.
Edit: Also, quests are just grinds in disguise. Let's look at what quests and grinding reward you with...
Questing Rewards: Items, Experience, Gold.
Grinding Rewards: Items, Experience, Gold.
Holy shit! They're the exact same rewards! Just because one has colorful text and the other doesn't...failboat.
I'm currently in school to get my BA in Game Art & Design...so I come to these forums constantly to read what players themselves have to say about the genre, etc sort of as my own personal studying, as well as to discuss topics on occasion.
Now that I got that out of the way I have to say that I feel sorry for you satisfied Aion players, as well as for the satisfied players of any other MMO due to come out over...oh, the next 10 years, possibly more. I don't play Aion myself, but my roommate does, so I'm not completely in the dark about it. As many have stated here, due to another certain game I don't think I need to mention the name of, as well as many other MMO's that came out after it that have been attempting to mirror it's success (Although almost all of them have failed miserably), we seem to have been left with a VERY impatient new generation of players due to it.
Almost everyone wants everything now now now. Instant gratification belongs in console games, not MMO's. I have been watching my roommate play, and Aion looks fantastic graphically. LOVE the style. He isn't quite level 20 yet, so I have yet to see this grind some on here speak of, but from what I have seen thus far, it looks better than most of the garbage on the market currently. Slower levels the higher you get in levels is how it should be. As far as MMO's go (IMO), the journey to top level is what makes the game fun, NOT just what is at the end of it. What's the rush? I know if I'm paying $50 initially for a game, and THEN $15 a month to play it on top of that, I damn well better not be able to complete everything in a month or less. These "quick to top level" MMO's that have been coming out recently are a joke.
Why do MMO's lately not have a community feel? If you ask me (which I know your not, but personal outlook incoming anyway), it's because most players get bored and leave after a month or so due to being at top level in that time frame and bored because they blew through content trying to be a "server first" in whatever category they were striving for (Top lvl, top gear, top PvP'er, etc). Slow progression allows communities to gel where people get familiar with one another, form friendships, alliances, guilds that become strong through playing with one another all the time and knowing each others strengths and weaknesses...and makes players become more attached to their characters.
So now I'll don the flame retardant suit for what I am about to say. If you don't like the "grind" you speak of and the slow leveling, find another MMO to migrate to until you find what you're looking for. Don't try to ruin the game for others. Hell, I may consider picking Aion up if it truly has slower leveling and difficulty. Been waiting for such a game to come along again and ignore the easy-mode garbage route.
The ones who whine are usually those people that don't stick around anyways because as someone else put it, they are in a hurry to get to the next shiny object in their path. There are plenty of other MMO's out there that cater to the ADD players. Sadly though I, as well as many others here are wasting our breath, because this is the way it will be for years to come, and has been for years past. You will ALWAYS have the whiners, just as you will have the satisfied players and fanboys. The sad thing now is that the dev's usually listen to the wrong people on the forums. When they DO actually listen that is.
I'm glad so many of you seem so content with mindless mob grinding. I personally can't stand to turn my brain off for extended periods of time, but that's just me. I am happy for you that you will be able to enjoy grindy games. Unfortunately I think you are the reason that many developers don't even try anymore. They know that a lot of people will just grind away and never ask for more. They can even use the same mobs and just switch the skins and the same mob-grinders will keep on playing. Its frickin' 2009. Has this genre really not moved past this by now?? I honestly don't understand how anyone could find huge mob grinding games fun... Its not like there aren't other ways to approach this.
The one thing I think that really seems to be amiss with the newer generation of gamers is that pride from working really hard for a long time to get a toon to where you want it. It used to be that because of the amount of effort involved you felt proud to achieve things. Honestly I hate how easy it is to max level in games these days. I feel no real pride or connection with my characters. I have high hopes for AION to actually make me feel like I accomplished something.
Now let's talk about players that enjoy PvP, the problem I see with this game right now is grind just doesn't work for this crowd. AION is not ONLY PvP, they called PvPvE. PvPvE term comes from the 3rd faction that is environmental. It has nothing to do with " PvE ", which is generally used to mean anything not PvP related. Aion simply forces PvPers to PvE, and PvEers to PvP.....this is not a well thought out scheme to satisfy players. If you want to make a PvP game you're focus needs to stay away from grind as much as possible, and this game doesn't allow you to do it, it forces you not just to PvE but grind...and I don't see any bigger turn off for a PvPer than this! Yes, again AION is PvPvE, so yes, PvE and PvP are togather on this game. You want changes on AION or a complete new game? Again you are not using the term PvPvE correctly. It doesn't have anything to do with PvE, but the 3rd faction that is supposed to be controlled by AI.
AION was build around a idea: PvPvE, PvE in a PvP world, PvP in a PvE world
If you only ask more quests, ok, why not, having more quest to do dont arm the game base idea. But you are asking to change almost everthing
OP wasn't asking to change the game completely, but to get rid of the grind since this is a PvP game. I some what agree, but I still think a little grind would be ok. If a casual PvPer can't hit max level within his/her first month ( ~60 hours play time ), then I don't think the game will make it in the western market, or the game must be designed more closely towards FPS mechanics.
I know they use the PvPvE term because of Balaur, but i thing it can define the game.
You cant only PvP in AION, you will need to PvE and after lvl 20, most of territorys will have some PvP too because of the rifts.
And even you go to Abyss, theres a lot of PvE too (quests and raids to be done), even Abyss points can come from Balaur's (and they are mobs, so its PvE).
I dont agree when ppl say its a PvP focus game, what im trying to explain that AION is a mix of PvP and PvE and is all together, its not easy for a player who ONLY likes PvP or PvE.
Thats why i use the term PvPvE to define game.
I just thing ppl missunderstanding AION when say it its a PvP game, no it not, its a mmorpg with PvE and PvP and both features are together.
Now let's talk about players that enjoy PvP, the problem I see with this game right now is grind just doesn't work for this crowd. AION is not ONLY PvP, they called PvPvE. PvPvE term comes from the 3rd faction that is environmental. It has nothing to do with " PvE ", which is generally used to mean anything not PvP related. Aion simply forces PvPers to PvE, and PvEers to PvP.....this is not a well thought out scheme to satisfy players. If you want to make a PvP game you're focus needs to stay away from grind as much as possible, and this game doesn't allow you to do it, it forces you not just to PvE but grind...and I don't see any bigger turn off for a PvPer than this! Yes, again AION is PvPvE, so yes, PvE and PvP are togather on this game. You want changes on AION or a complete new game? Again you are not using the term PvPvE correctly. It doesn't have anything to do with PvE, but the 3rd faction that is supposed to be controlled by AI.
AION was build around a idea: PvPvE, PvE in a PvP world, PvP in a PvE world
If you only ask more quests, ok, why not, having more quest to do dont arm the game base idea. But you are asking to change almost everthing
OP wasn't asking to change the game completely, but to get rid of the grind since this is a PvP game. I some what agree, but I still think a little grind would be ok. If a casual PvPer can't hit max level within his/her first month ( ~60 hours play time ), then I don't think the game will make it in the western market, or the game must be designed more closely towards FPS mechanics.
I know they use the PvPvE term because of Balaur, but i thing it can define the game.
You cant only PvP in AION, you will need to PvE and after lvl 20, most of territorys will have some PvP too because of the rifts.
And even you go to Abyss, theres a lot of PvE too (quests and raids to be done), even Abyss points can come from Balaur's (and they are mobs, so its PvE).
I dont agree when ppl say its a PvP focus game, what im trying to explain that AION is a mix of PvP and PvE and is all together, its not easy for a player who ONLY likes PvP or PvE.
Thats why i use the term PvPvE to define game.
I just thing ppl missunderstanding AION when say it its a PvP game, no it not, its a mmorpg with PvE and PvP and both features are together.
Just my opinion ofc.
While that may be true I think the game is balanced more towards PvP than PvE. Majority of players will gear out for PvP than for PvE. Is this not correct?
Comments
i think its a grind but i dont mind i have to just think that its only been a week and 1 day and im already lvl 35 and cap is lvl 50 lol plus the fact that it is a really new game still and im sure someday they add more quest more areas to go stuff like that :P
I'm not into namecalling but I'll still laugh at you because this isn't like supposed "grinding" games I've played before. If anything, you could complain that besides the potential for PvP this game isn't anything really new at all compared to other mmos.
But saying it's a grinder is just bandwagone flair any more unless you just recently got into mmorpgs. This game is nothing like the type of grinding you used to have to do in mmorpgs.
Not to mention that all mmos have their grinds so never really understood how that was a valid argument to begin with, but boy is it ever the new flavor of the month debate tactic.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I can't say if the game has enough quests to get you to 50. I CAN say that people are not finding the quests. I have so many quests that I have yet to finish. because regular playing has led me to different things.
But at one point, probably about 28, I thought "I might as well finish up these quests to pad my xp a bit" and ended up getting most of that level.
Does this game have enough quests to mirror wow? no, of course not. But if people would just do a bit of exploring they might be surprised what they find.
Are the quests going to be any different than "hey, the blarghs are causing us trouble, if you can kill a whole much of them, let's say 25, it would really help us out"? Probably not. But at the end of that quest you are going to get a nice chunk of xp. There are several quests that just have you travel around and ask npc's things. Not stellar quest writing but 125k xp of me relaxing and seeing the sites. Then out to the abyss to hang, grind and pvp a bit. I come from Lineage 2 so that is what I'm used to, I have no problems just grinding for grinding's sake. But I can tell the difference between "oh, I have nothing to do other than stay in one place and grind mobs" and "I have quests that ask me to grind mobs but I also get a reward and xp for doing that quest".
I really do think that players need to be hooked into the pvp part, at least to some extent. Regardless of what NC says about being equally pve and pvp. The pvp really is the hook in my opinion. At least for me. If a person has no intentioin of pvp'ing and isn't totally enamored of the game world and art design then I don't see how they are going to like Aion.
But that's just my opinion.
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The game world is way too small to support the leveling curve. There is nothing wrong with a long leveling curve if there is plenty of fun content to keep you entertained along the way. The game only has enough content for a short leveling curve, which is why it feels so grindy.
I don't really see the game entertaining much at end game. The game world is too small for a non-grindy, long leveling curve, but the game doesn't have much to offer beyond it's leveling curve.
The game is fatally flawed. Making the leveling curve shorter isn't going to help anything. The game has been out a year in Korea with very little expansion to the game world, so don't count on steady, free updates to flesh the game out.
The game is a "dead man walking". It's fate is sealed.
I had thought Aion's subscription drop off would probably look a lot like the curve we have seen with WAR, but I now think it's going to look more like the drop off we saw with AoC.
Aion did a lot of little things right and they definitely set a new standard for character creation. (Kudos as well that with all the body proportion modifications I haven't really seen any clipping issues with the armors even on the most extreme body types). It's just that they fail on over all game concept and world design.
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Aion was never meant to be a pvp exclusive game.
Why is it that so many people think a game should be either a PVE game or a PVP game? What's wrong with a game that is looking to appeal to people who find both PVE and PVP important?
It's not like we have a shortage of PVP or PVE games.
Flontar: You're actually completely wrong. There has been a number of content updates and NCsoft is planning one major update every year. Also, what part of the game has already been released in asia for months is hard to understand? It's already way past Age of Conan or Warhammer as it hasn't dropped in subscribers, it only increased them.
Funny story, the friend of mine that begged me to get this game so we can play together is botting now.....and wants me to do it to....XP
hmmmmm??
So because the cap level isn't reached in the first free month that comes with the game, that means it's an asian grinder?
In games that actually fit the definition of asian grinder, such as Lineage 2, RF online and Ragnarok Online, it could take up to a year of dedicated playing to reach the cap.
People are already nearing the cap just two weeks after release and you still try to say Aion is the same kind of game with a straigth face?
So because the cap level isn't reached in the first free month that comes with the game, that means it's an asian grinder?
In games that actually fit the definition of asian grinder, such as Lineage 2, RF online and Ragnarok Online, it could take up to a year of dedicated playing to reach the cap.
People are already nearing the cap just two weeks after release and you still try to say Aion is the same kind of game with a straigth face?
Yeah...the people that play it 6+ hours a day will be near cap. I will not be surprised at all to see people hit 50 before the free mont his up...but those that do are not casual gamers. The people all ready into their 30's and 40's are not casual gamers by any stretch of imagination.
You're actually both right. Aion is nothing like the grinders of the past. In those games even sitting for 10+ hours per day and you'd still need a year to reach the level cap. This is hardly the case with this game.
On the other hand, those in the 40+ range can hardly be considered casuals, by any stretch of the definition.
So because the cap level isn't reached in the first free month that comes with the game, that means it's an asian grinder?
In games that actually fit the definition of asian grinder, such as Lineage 2, RF online and Ragnarok Online, it could take up to a year of dedicated playing to reach the cap.
People are already nearing the cap just two weeks after release and you still try to say Aion is the same kind of game with a straigth face?
Yeah...the people that play it 6+ hours a day will be near cap. I will not be surprised at all to see people hit 50 before the free mont his up...but those that do are not casual gamers. The people all ready into their 30's and 40's are not casual gamers by any stretch of imagination.
Okay so let's say that people who play 6+ hours will be near the cap. We're now 2 weeks from release and players had to struggle with long que times.
So that means a person who plays 3 hours a day will be near the cap in about a month. This is now an asian grind? This is comparable to games like WoW, Lotro and Everquest 2. Are those asian grinders as well?
Actually, those games are probably more grind than Aion is. The difference is the back end of it that is making them notice it more, and thats the PL side. In WoW you could easily grab your 80 and bring your friend up 20 levels a day. In Aion you can't. If your too high level your low level friend gets basically nada, and that includes loot drops. Aion forces you to play your way up the levels, and to many thats a grind fest.
As for the casual/hardcore argument, the ones complaining Aion is a grindfest are the hardcore. Those that are push-push-pushing thier way towards endgame as fast as they can, hour after hour everyday. They are the ones complaining about the grind. Not because there is more of it, but because they aren't enjoying thier play time, they are just grinding for the end-game......period. How many casual players do you honestly see complaining about it??
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Personally, my issue is that yes, the grind is more than I want to put effort into.
I've been playing MMO's since I was 13 and I'm soon to be 25. I've played all sorts, ranging from Eastern to Western and everything counted in between, but the problem with a game like AION is that it wants to be accepted by the mainstream games, and it is warm and inviting for the first 20 levels, but afterwards, it becomes like a second job.
As a graduate student who is working and doing an internship, the last thing I want is to sit down and play 6 hours a night to gain half a level after I reach level 25 or so; just to attempt to enjoy it. Yes, I accept that work must be done in order to enjoy something, but my work and education is something that is much more important to me to spend my time on then getting a second job (third if you count an internship a job), and call that my "relaxation time".
No, I don't expect to reach level cap within a week of playing it, yes, I understand that there are players out there that have gone so hard they've leveled to cap within days, and there will always be those people. But if a developer is insisting on making it work to reach level cap, then at least give me something interesting to do while I'm on my way there. Fighting for bag space, having spirit masters and sorcerers steal my kills, never getting any decent loot drops, having crafting that literally takes hours (though the gathering has been enjoyable and well implemented), having crafting that's a pain in the ASS to level up even when making things that is on par to your current skill, being forced into PvP to get decent quest/gear and getting ganked by those who have no lives and are already reaching level 35+... THIS is what I do not call enjoyable, and this is why grinding, kill-by-kill, becomes such an issue in current games.
Yes, I also understand that a game such as this requires grouping, and trust me, I have tried. The problem though, is one that many have stated, is WoW. Because of this, there are far too many people attempting to grind all this out solo and don't want to deal with the rest of the games population, and furthermore, many of these people who have only ever played WoW and now think they're hardcore PvP'ing are becoming ninja's to get the decent loot you DO get when you're grouped. When dealing with this mindset within this current community, its just not worth the frustration.
Maybe the game will settle down in a few months and it may be easier then to level and do things... but then the issue comes that there won't be many new/starting players because the game isn't inviting to new players after the reviews and the disgruntled players bitching, which makes it hard to level due to lack of support and groups.
Its a vicious cycle.
"And after blizzard takes over the world, they are gonna gather a bunch of lemmings, sit on their fat asses near a cliff, and watch the little fuzzy bastards suicide dive into the ground below. . . . . all just for their own entertainment."
They are all grinds for some people, because they are burned out by the gender. Or at least, by the way the gender is presented up until now.
I never get burned out by the female gender, though.
You mean genre right, not gender. I think you still have that other thread on your mind Xas. LOL!
Oups, busted
This game is PvPvE and I like it the way it is.Fighting mobs even the low level one can whoop your ass and they hit hard and of course it takes longer than other mmos to put them down.
Most people whining, want it to be the wow way and there's already a lot of easy game on the market,so don`t you dare touch my Mumu.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
Actually, those games are probably more grind than Aion is. The difference is the back end of it that is making them notice it more, and thats the PL side. In WoW you could easily grab your 80 and bring your friend up 20 levels a day. In Aion you can't. If your too high level your low level friend gets basically nada, and that includes loot drops. Aion forces you to play your way up the levels, and to many thats a grind fest.
As for the casual/hardcore argument, the ones complaining Aion is a grindfest are the hardcore. Those that are push-push-pushing thier way towards endgame as fast as they can, hour after hour everyday. They are the ones complaining about the grind. Not because there is more of it, but because they aren't enjoying thier play time, they are just grinding for the end-game......period. How many casual players do you honestly see complaining about it??
I totally agree and the most amazing thing for me is that I don't feel the urge to level fast as there are so many things to do and places to go.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
Silly ? And why is that ? People don't complain about needing to get xp, they complain about having to kill the same mobs over and over (i.e. what a dumbass monkey could do) to get the xp. Unless you like being treated like that dumbass monkey, and, on top of that, like to pay to perform the same actions for hours n hours (like a guinea pig in a lab ?) then yeah, as a human being, u don't like doing the same stuff, over n over n over n over n over n over n over again.
Maybe this would work once for newbie mmo gamers cuz of all the "new" feeling, but for peeps who had to endure it in EQ (and at least it had its VERY rewarding raids behind, that shown a little light), and in L2 (where, well grind was grind, just to lvl up).
And to say that the game was not advertised as a "no grind" is true, but whenever someone mentionned grindfest during beta, all the fanbois were crying out "oh noes there are teh quests they give so much xp"...
Anyway, for AION, give em some time, they might adjust their game to its respective market, or when zillions of carebear will cry about being griefed while trying to grind their chunk of xp in the Abyss.
For my pov grinding's probably the most stupid thing in the world, it's like paying to be a factory worker back in the 50s and the beginning of taylorism, but if u do it casually then it passes; at least AION got the gankfest to distract you from it !
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You know I'd love to play Aion. Seriously. What I have an issue with is the grind to get to be able to PvP. Plus the TTK for MOB's is atrocious. Plus the bland quest...OMG at least in games like WoW we have some very interesting quest and quest lines worth following. Another thing that really annoys me is the flying or the lack of it in the earlier stages and later. I just don't understand the reason for the no-fly zones. If NCSoft developers were so worried about people skipping content, then they should have put off flying until they hit 50 and set up the game accordingly. As it is now it really blows that they limit your flight time and where you can fly. I'd rather see mounts added for the earlier stages and flight being something you achieve at 50.
Then there is the totally linear game play and the fact that there is only 1 starter zone per race. That means doing the same quest and going the same path when you run an alt.
As for the PvP. I am a huge PvP fan so this game is my type of game, however, having played my shae of games with PvP aspects of games centered around PvP like DAoC, Planetside, WoW, AC2(Coldeve server), AC(Darktide) and etc, etc, Aion's just missing something...it wasn't clicking with me. I really tried to like the game...it just wasn't for me.
I remember a time at the beginning of WoW when it took months to hit max level. As a regular player, a bit more than casual, it took me no less than two months to hit 60. Nobody complained about the leveling, or the content gaps - yes, WoW had content gaps at launch - and having to grind out certain levels (mainly 57-60 on scarlet lumberjacks), people just enjoyed the game. Even when you hit max level you had to grind rep; don't get me started on the furbolg grind to get recipes, or the argent dawn cauldron grind *shudder*.
This game has been out two weeks and people are already nearing the level cap, and yet it's too grindy. Give me a fucking break. I know you're all spoiled by today's 1 week to cap WoW, but really, 2-3 weeks to hit cap isn't that grindy.
Edit: Also, quests are just grinds in disguise. Let's look at what quests and grinding reward you with...
Questing Rewards: Items, Experience, Gold.
Grinding Rewards: Items, Experience, Gold.
Holy shit! They're the exact same rewards! Just because one has colorful text and the other doesn't...failboat.
I'm currently in school to get my BA in Game Art & Design...so I come to these forums constantly to read what players themselves have to say about the genre, etc sort of as my own personal studying, as well as to discuss topics on occasion.
Now that I got that out of the way I have to say that I feel sorry for you satisfied Aion players, as well as for the satisfied players of any other MMO due to come out over...oh, the next 10 years, possibly more. I don't play Aion myself, but my roommate does, so I'm not completely in the dark about it. As many have stated here, due to another certain game I don't think I need to mention the name of, as well as many other MMO's that came out after it that have been attempting to mirror it's success (Although almost all of them have failed miserably), we seem to have been left with a VERY impatient new generation of players due to it.
Almost everyone wants everything now now now. Instant gratification belongs in console games, not MMO's. I have been watching my roommate play, and Aion looks fantastic graphically. LOVE the style. He isn't quite level 20 yet, so I have yet to see this grind some on here speak of, but from what I have seen thus far, it looks better than most of the garbage on the market currently. Slower levels the higher you get in levels is how it should be. As far as MMO's go (IMO), the journey to top level is what makes the game fun, NOT just what is at the end of it. What's the rush? I know if I'm paying $50 initially for a game, and THEN $15 a month to play it on top of that, I damn well better not be able to complete everything in a month or less. These "quick to top level" MMO's that have been coming out recently are a joke.
Why do MMO's lately not have a community feel? If you ask me (which I know your not, but personal outlook incoming anyway), it's because most players get bored and leave after a month or so due to being at top level in that time frame and bored because they blew through content trying to be a "server first" in whatever category they were striving for (Top lvl, top gear, top PvP'er, etc). Slow progression allows communities to gel where people get familiar with one another, form friendships, alliances, guilds that become strong through playing with one another all the time and knowing each others strengths and weaknesses...and makes players become more attached to their characters.
So now I'll don the flame retardant suit for what I am about to say. If you don't like the "grind" you speak of and the slow leveling, find another MMO to migrate to until you find what you're looking for. Don't try to ruin the game for others. Hell, I may consider picking Aion up if it truly has slower leveling and difficulty. Been waiting for such a game to come along again and ignore the easy-mode garbage route.
The ones who whine are usually those people that don't stick around anyways because as someone else put it, they are in a hurry to get to the next shiny object in their path. There are plenty of other MMO's out there that cater to the ADD players. Sadly though I, as well as many others here are wasting our breath, because this is the way it will be for years to come, and has been for years past. You will ALWAYS have the whiners, just as you will have the satisfied players and fanboys. The sad thing now is that the dev's usually listen to the wrong people on the forums. When they DO actually listen that is.
The one thing I think that really seems to be amiss with the newer generation of gamers is that pride from working really hard for a long time to get a toon to where you want it. It used to be that because of the amount of effort involved you felt proud to achieve things. Honestly I hate how easy it is to max level in games these days. I feel no real pride or connection with my characters. I have high hopes for AION to actually make me feel like I accomplished something.
AION was build around a idea: PvPvE, PvE in a PvP world, PvP in a PvE world
If you only ask more quests, ok, why not, having more quest to do dont arm the game base idea. But you are asking to change almost everthing
OP wasn't asking to change the game completely, but to get rid of the grind since this is a PvP game. I some what agree, but I still think a little grind would be ok. If a casual PvPer can't hit max level within his/her first month ( ~60 hours play time ), then I don't think the game will make it in the western market, or the game must be designed more closely towards FPS mechanics.
I know they use the PvPvE term because of Balaur, but i thing it can define the game.
You cant only PvP in AION, you will need to PvE and after lvl 20, most of territorys will have some PvP too because of the rifts.
And even you go to Abyss, theres a lot of PvE too (quests and raids to be done), even Abyss points can come from Balaur's (and they are mobs, so its PvE).
I dont agree when ppl say its a PvP focus game, what im trying to explain that AION is a mix of PvP and PvE and is all together, its not easy for a player who ONLY likes PvP or PvE.
Thats why i use the term PvPvE to define game.
I just thing ppl missunderstanding AION when say it its a PvP game, no it not, its a mmorpg with PvE and PvP and both features are together.
Just my opinion ofc.
AION was build around a idea: PvPvE, PvE in a PvP world, PvP in a PvE world
If you only ask more quests, ok, why not, having more quest to do dont arm the game base idea. But you are asking to change almost everthing
OP wasn't asking to change the game completely, but to get rid of the grind since this is a PvP game. I some what agree, but I still think a little grind would be ok. If a casual PvPer can't hit max level within his/her first month ( ~60 hours play time ), then I don't think the game will make it in the western market, or the game must be designed more closely towards FPS mechanics.
I know they use the PvPvE term because of Balaur, but i thing it can define the game.
You cant only PvP in AION, you will need to PvE and after lvl 20, most of territorys will have some PvP too because of the rifts.
And even you go to Abyss, theres a lot of PvE too (quests and raids to be done), even Abyss points can come from Balaur's (and they are mobs, so its PvE).
I dont agree when ppl say its a PvP focus game, what im trying to explain that AION is a mix of PvP and PvE and is all together, its not easy for a player who ONLY likes PvP or PvE.
Thats why i use the term PvPvE to define game.
I just thing ppl missunderstanding AION when say it its a PvP game, no it not, its a mmorpg with PvE and PvP and both features are together.
Just my opinion ofc.
While that may be true I think the game is balanced more towards PvP than PvE. Majority of players will gear out for PvP than for PvE. Is this not correct?