Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Will AION fail?
Just was curious what other people thought. I played the open beta and realized that the game was pretty horrible. I mean the camera system wasn't too useful when it comes to PvP, seems like a clunky interface and the PvP is going to consist of people hitting chains mindlessly.
Also, Is their whole endgame really going to be PvP? It really annoys me when these carebear games come out and try to act like they are some kind of hardcore PvP game when they are basically catering to this audience: The people who suck at PvE so much they PvP. Really, if the game was for PvPers then why isn't there a hardcore server where you can kill anyone at any level in any zone? Currently it looks like there is a certain level restriction on PvP and also much of the PvP is focused in instances/artificial zones or specific zones.
What happened to games where you could PvP anywhere at any time? That would be a real PvP game.
Comments
The game is already far beyond failing. It's already one of the most popular mmorpgs around worldwide.
Is their whole endgame going to be pvp? No. Aion is a game that puts as much effort into PVE as it does in PVP.
What you're describing is FFA open pvp, not hardcore pvp. Ofcourse it won't be implanted because Aion is a Faction vs Faction pvp game and is designed with this concept in mind. apparently realm vs realm term is actually trademarked.
To claim that faction vs faction pvp is for people who "don't know how to PVE" is downright laughable and shows you really have no clue what you're talking about.
NCsoft already developed a FFA pvp with Lineage 2.
fail or not to fail that is the question
and IT IS FREAKIN ANNOYING ! this has been discussed 123901239817318 times before... YOU like YOU PLAY
BUT HELL if you don't like it just don't play and leave people alone
QUESTION:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xridnasa:
-
What's a "grocery store"? Is that like McDonald's?
-
ANSWER:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidimazz:
-
Kind of, just without the rapist.
Well it's already a success, even before it was released in the U.S. As for the long term it probably wont hold up in the states, it has way too much grind to it. Aion is a PvPvE game, it mixes both styles into one. NCsoft has promoted the game as such since forever. People calling it a "pvp game only " are delusional.
I just don't get why they specifically focus on PvP though. A game where you just kill the same people over and over is boring. It's not too meaningful if you are just farming other players for gear like you have in games like WoW and AION. At least WoW though, had somewhat challenging raid content (not as challenging as EQ but better than nothing).
Seems like this PvP gimmick is just a way to lure newbs into games so they can get the best gear just by investing time, regardless of whether or not they are skilled players.
AION PvP is for people who don't know how to PvP, why else would the rules of AION encourage not PvPing until you are level 50? You're basically separated from the other factions and just farm your way to 50 then PvP, it's not a true PvP game like EQ where you are constantly fighting other players just to level up. And being past level 20 just to PvP? what a joke that is. In EQ you were able to be attacked at level 5, from anyone else.
But from what I heard AION has no PvE endgame as of yet and focuses on grinding other players for gear. I would be incredibly bored if I was farming low skilled players rather than raid content. At least everyone has to beat the same raid content in games that are based on PvE. In games that hand out gear for PvP , it is kind of like you can pick the right class and play against (other) horrible opponents to get geared.
The reason the gear systems in PvP games fail is that a majority of the players wouldn't really cut it in a real MMORPG that based its endgame on raid content. In EQ there were only a few guilds who were capable of doing certain raids. But in these PvP MMORPGs there are so many high level players that will be PvPing that you will just have to be better than the average player to obtain the best gear in the game. Plus it is boring to farm players, I bet this game fails when people realize meaningless PvP is boring. If guilds fought over control of zones, etc. then the PvP system would be meaningful but AION is just fake
Considering that the grind is no different than those of WoW, Lotro, EQ2 or City of Heroes, there is no reason to assume people will leave "because of grinding" when its grinding is on par with other mmorpgs.
Considering that the grind is no different than those of WoW, Lotro, EQ2 or City of Heroes, there is no reason to assume people will leave "because of grinding" when its grinding is on par with other mmorpgs.
Thats another issue I have with AION. It is a trivial grind. I remember EQ grinds were hard, and you had to have skilled groups to level up. It was more than just running to the guy 5 feet away from you to get half a level. In AION, they would give me 5 quests to run to the adjacent area (which they put up on my minimap) then reward me with a ridiculous amount of exp. Why not just start people at 50 if they are going to make the grind trivial and boring?
I'm sure you know there are lots of games with a free PvP? EVE, Dorkfall, Jumpgate E, Vanguard...
nha once gamer experience end game in aion (ya i know only in about a month or 2 lol)
they ll all be coming to aion
Considering that the grind is no different than those of WoW, Lotro, EQ2 or City of Heroes, there is no reason to assume people will leave "because of grinding" when its grinding is on par with other mmorpgs.
Well that's all opinion, I completely disagree however, seeing the number of complaints on aionsource, aion, and even here in the aion sub forums about the grind I'm going to stick with my opinion.
I'm sure you know there are lots of games with a free PvP? EVE, Dorkfall, Jumpgate E, Vanguard...
Out of those games that I've played (EVE), I couldn't really call that real PvP. If you PvP someone in a high security zone you will get destroyed by NPCs. Other than that, EVE is a crap game where you just have to wait x years of RL time to build up skill trees. And who could enjoy PvP in a game like EVE? Target your opponent then hit a few buttons and go afk. Not enough control in EVE for it to be a decent PvP game.
My guess is it won't fail. But it won't be that big of a success too.
One thing they did right is Aion is released in many country.
And they actually are releasing more pve content in upcoming patch.
Considering that the grind is no different than those of WoW, Lotro, EQ2 or City of Heroes, there is no reason to assume people will leave "because of grinding" when its grinding is on par with other mmorpgs.
Thats another issue I have with AION. It is a trivial grind. I remember EQ grinds were hard, and you had to have skilled groups to level up. It was more than just running to the guy 5 feet away from you to get half a level. In AION, they would give me 5 quests to run to the adjacent area (which they put up on my minimap) then reward me with a ridiculous amount of exp. Why not just start people at 50 if they are going to make the grind trivial and boring?
It's obviously not your type of game. Let AION's life-cycle play itself out and then you wont need to have idiotic threads like this one.
I don't care about this game, nor have i played it. I just dont get why people have to make threads like this.
I just don't get why they specifically focus on PvP though. A game where you just kill the same people over and over is boring. It's not too meaningful if you are just farming other players for gear like you have in games like WoW and AION. At least WoW though, had somewhat challenging raid content (not as challenging as EQ but better than nothing).
Seems like this PvP gimmick is just a way to lure newbs into games so they can get the best gear just by investing time, regardless of whether or not they are skilled players.
AION PvP is for people who don't know how to PvP, why else would the rules of AION encourage not PvPing until you are level 50? You're basically separated from the other factions and just farm your way to 50 then PvP, it's not a true PvP game like EQ where you are constantly fighting other players just to level up. And being past level 20 just to PvP? what a joke that is. In EQ you were able to be attacked at level 5, from anyone else.
But from what I heard AION has no PvE endgame as of yet and focuses on grinding other players for gear. I would be incredibly bored if I was farming low skilled players rather than raid content. At least everyone has to beat the same raid content in games that are based on PvE. In games that hand out gear for PvP , it is kind of like you can pick the right class and play against (other) horrible opponents to get geared.
The reason the gear systems in PvP games fail is that a majority of the players wouldn't really cut it in a real MMORPG that based its endgame on raid content. In EQ there were only a few guilds who were capable of doing certain raids. But in these PvP MMORPGs there are so many high level players that will be PvPing that you will just have to be better than the average player to obtain the best gear in the game. Plus it is boring to farm players, I bet this game fails when people realize meaningless PvP is boring. If guilds fought over control of zones, etc. then the PvP system would be meaningful but AION is just fake
You're playing a game with thousands of other players. The chances of you fighting the same players over and over again is pretty slim.
You're not just fighting for more points, you're also fighting for control over the keep which gives access to special PVE dungeons. So yes, the game does have PVP and PVE content, it mixes them up.
Aion's ruleset doesn't encourage you to wait to level 50, in fact you'll probably arrive at the pvp part of the game around level 20 ~ 25, which is about 2 ~ 3 days of gaming depending on how much you play.
You also won't be fighting people lower than your level very often as you won't get as many abyss points for that.
You need to drop that hardcore raid elitism. Raiding isn't difficult to do. The reason why only few guilds were capable of doing raids is because it took a huge amount of effort to get enough people of high enough level, with good enough equipment to all play at the same time for several hours. A raid is challenging exactly once. After that you know it's pattern and you'll start in repetition, or raid farming.
The reason why people move away from games that focus entirely on raiding is because it's time consuming and many people don't find it entertaining. To say that players "wouldn't cut it" is just funny.
At Dstar.
The reason for that is because the standards of how much time people are willing to invest in an mmorpg is starting to decrease for a lot of people. Many people, such as yourself, will start calling the game a grind when they don't reach the cap in the first week of playing.
Whatever makes you feel better man.
Giving people points for killing other players is stupid. Games that have real PvP systems don't need to hand out points for PvP, because other parts of the game encourage PvP without having to have a direct reward for PvPing.
Raiding isn't difficult? Is PvP more difficult? There is only so many different ways a class can be played. Plus you can get so many attempts at PvPing every class that you can easily learn how to beat certain players. I'd say PvE is more difficult because you don't get infinite retries like you do with PvP. These new games will just let you respawn and come back and get killed and repeat. Games with real PvP systems had it so that once you died you are finished and you have to come back, but you would have a hard time getting your gear back after dying.
But raiding is much more difficult. If raiding wasn't more difficult, then why aren't guilds in MMORPGs all at the endgame then? Are you going to say its purely gear? Well you can say the same thing about PvP too, gear advantage is obviously a PvP advantage. The difference between PvE and PvP is that in games with PvE everyone has to raid the same content whereas in PvP games you can win by class advantage or by playing against players who don' t know how to PvP. There is none of that in PvE, because NPCs are the same regardless of who is fighting them.
And no players wouldn't cut games with PvE. Imagine WoW or AION players going into EQ and trying to level up, they would die and quit the game within a few days. They wouldn't even be able to grind to the max level. Now your level only means that you invested a certain amount of time into a game, rather than reflecting the difficulty in achieving that level. They dumbed it all down, eliminating PvE is another way of dumbing down MMORPGs and catering to a mainstream audience that just isn't good enough for things that require strategies or skill.
And no, once you learn a raid it doesn't mean you will always win. You might not have the same classes you had originally, maybe you got lucky, maybe the raid has some unpredictability associated with it (as most raids do, even in WoW). There is no doubt that raiding is more difficult. And even in WoW they had to get rid of the 40 man instances because it was too difficult (no one could do 40 man naxx, and most guilds couldn't even handle newb zones like 40 man BWL) Going to say it is purely gear? The people who can't do things can't do them partly because of gear and partly because they have no skills.
Its always hard to tell in its first month because a lot of people are playing the initial 30 day period . we could argue that its like conan or warhammer and will see a massive drop of untill we take into account the cues for the game the need to more servers the comparative lack of trolling . outside the obvious problems with wait times the game itself seams entertaining and pretty solid. if it was bad there would nt be 16 hour ques .This game will fail in the same way as Warcraft failed 5 years ago Ncsoft like Blizzard failed to realised what a runaway success it would be and are playing catch up . The liklyhood is this game will be the most successful release since WoW . It ll be interesting to see what happens .
I didn't quote to avoid making the quote to long.
Giving points for PVP kills is a great system. It makes pvp play rewarding. The only other reasons to pvp is either clan politics, which only work in Free for all pvp games, or fighting over hunting spots which ofcourse still happens in Aion.
Is pvp more challenging than pve? well obviously that depends on the game but in most cases it is because AI in mmorpgs is very basic. A human player is completely unpredictable. Your arguments against pvp play are silly. Only against people who you have a class advantage over or people who aren't good players? Have you ever actually played a PVP game? You don't actually get to pick your fights and you don't know how good a player is untill you beat him or her. It's an MMORPG world with thousands of players, chances are you'll be fighting new players pretty often if not all the time.
Ofcourse those people would last in Everquest. Everquest wasn't a difficult game to play. In fact, if you want challenge you're playing the wrong genre. What you describe is punishing, not challenging. The only thing that games like Everquest test more is your patience.
No there isn't a lot of unpredictability in raids. Any semi - decent guild will always bring the same kind of classes to a raid. That's why it's almost always a guild doing raids and pre set times because it's quite time consuming and sometimes impossible to find the right classes for the raid.
Is gear a contributing factor? Absolutely, in both PVP and PVE because surprises, it's an RPG.
The reason why there are so few guilds actually raiding and also because WoW's raids have been reduces to a lower number is because it's a chore to get 40 people together. This meant that raiding was almost exclusivily to big guilds or very strict guilds.
anybody that believe that aion is just raid that they will win everytime doesnt know a big chunk of the game yet lol
but i dont care i ll be like a big bunch of other player an enjoy the pvp in a raid environment
It already failed, they only sold 300k copies and many players left because of the queues.
Add in the hacking.
Add in the gold selling.
Add in the HUGE grind.
In 2 months from now the game will be sub 100k players.
Then it can join failures like AoC, Warhammer, Vanguard, EQ2.
The only MMO topping 100k with ease are WoW, LOTRO and Guild Wars atm. No game has managed to outdo WoW or come even close. Not only is that depressing, it was the developer's own damn fault every time.
SoE are greedy bastards, NCsoft let their servers get hacked and botted each time, Funcom doesn't have a clue what it's doing.
Is it any wonder that WoW dominates when it has 0 competition.
Are you kidding? How do you call the 1-30 second PvP encounters in these newer MMORPGs challenging? Did you also find Diablo 2's 1 shot PvP system challenging too? The only way a game with PvP could ever be considered challenging is if the PvP in the game took an equivalent amount of time. In EQ, we could have 100 people fighting each other for 30-60 minutes before one side wins. And unlike these junk carebear games, EQ PvP was real. You are raiding Kael? Well another guild might want that spawn too, and they will put up a raid force to come take your guild out and prevent you from killing an NPC. Try that in a carebear hand holding MMORPG like WoW or AION, where you have your little protected instances...
Even in WoW the PvE was more difficult than the PvP content. I don't even know how you can make the equivalence between a 5-10 second encounter and a raid encounter which typically lasts several minutes. Raids are sustained skill and thinking and PvP is just looking at your opponents class and using a prehashed strategy for that class/skill tree.
PvE = 10-20 minutes of skill per encounter
PvP = 5-10 seconds of skill per encounter
Which one is really more enjoyable? Do you enjoy trivial wins that are so common that they are meaningless? That is basically what new MMORPGs have for their PvP systems. Doesn't even matter if you are on top or on bottom because it is boring & easy regardless.
And if you want a game where its only dependent on your own skill why are you playing an MMORPG in the first place? MMORPGs should have always had massive raids that required lots of people. 40 should be a minimum for raids, that way there is more opportunity to screw up and lose the raid, making the victory that much more worthwhile. Now when you make it 5 man raids, it's just going to be boring because it's trivial to coordinate raids/groups that small, kind of the same as grinding exp.
So I would argue PvE is where these games should focus, because it is more fun, requires more skill, and encourages people to PvP. PvE and PvP should co-exist I think but I don't think PVP should be a substitute for PvE (like when you have the best gear from farming BGs/Arenas all day, mindlessly.) When PvE gear > PvP gear, then PvPers are encouraged to PvE and PvErs are encouraged to PvP. It's just sad to see that games are making MMOs PvP based for low skilled players. There was a time (like 7-8 years ago) when MMORPGs were challenging.
Current MMORPGs are like swimming with life preservers, making them boring to skilled players.
go play those we ll play aion everybody will be happy
Are you kidding? How do you call the 1-30 second PvP encounters in these newer MMORPGs challenging? Did you also find Diablo 2's 1 shot PvP system challenging too? The only way a game with PvP could ever be considered challenging is if the PvP in the game took an equivalent amount of time. In EQ, we could have 100 people fighting each other for 30-60 minutes before one side wins. And unlike these junk carebear games, EQ PvP was real. You are raiding Kael? Well another guild might want that spawn too, and they will put up a raid force to come take your guild out and prevent you from killing an NPC. Try that in a carebear hand holding MMORPG like WoW or AION, where you have your little protected instances...
just had to jump in here, that is exactl what we did a few nights ago in Aion. The asmos wanted a castle. We didn't want them to have a castle, so we intervened so that they couldn't take down the Raid Boss Guardian at the bottom of the castle.
These things are still there.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yeah, hilarious stuff, he is critic towards aion for not having something it actually has.
Are you kidding? How do you call the 1-30 second PvP encounters in these newer MMORPGs challenging? Did you also find Diablo 2's 1 shot PvP system challenging too? The only way a game with PvP could ever be considered challenging is if the PvP in the game took an equivalent amount of time. In EQ, we could have 100 people fighting each other for 30-60 minutes before one side wins. And unlike these junk carebear games, EQ PvP was real. You are raiding Kael? Well another guild might want that spawn too, and they will put up a raid force to come take your guild out and prevent you from killing an NPC. Try that in a carebear hand holding MMORPG like WoW or AION, where you have your little protected instances...
Even in WoW the PvE was more difficult than the PvP content. I don't even know how you can make the equivalence between a 5-10 second encounter and a raid encounter which typically lasts several minutes. Raids are sustained skill and thinking and PvP is just looking at your opponents class and using a prehashed strategy for that class/skill tree.
PvE = 10-20 minutes of skill per encounter
PvP = 5-10 seconds of skill per encounter
Which one is really more enjoyable? Do you enjoy trivial wins that are so common that they are meaningless? That is basically what new MMORPGs have for their PvP systems. Doesn't even matter if you are on top or on bottom because it is boring & easy regardless.
And if you want a game where its only dependent on your own skill why are you playing an MMORPG in the first place? MMORPGs should have always had massive raids that required lots of people. 40 should be a minimum for raids, that way there is more opportunity to screw up and lose the raid, making the victory that much more worthwhile. Now when you make it 5 man raids, it's just going to be boring because it's trivial to coordinate raids/groups that small, kind of the same as grinding exp.
So I would argue PvE is where these games should focus, because it is more fun, requires more skill, and encourages people to PvP. PvE and PvP should co-exist I think but I don't think PVP should be a substitute for PvE (like when you have the best gear from farming BGs/Arenas all day, mindlessly.) When PvE gear > PvP gear, then PvPers are encouraged to PvE and PvErs are encouraged to PvP. It's just sad to see that games are making MMOs PvP based for low skilled players. There was a time (like 7-8 years ago) when MMORPGs were challenging.
Current MMORPGs are like swimming with life preservers, making them boring to skilled players.
Your posts make absolutely no sense. So because a PVP fights lasts longer that suddenly means they are harder? Where do you get these downright silly ideas? There is no reason for a PVP fight to drag out for 20 minutes, thats downright insane.
Also these large scale pvp fights you described? Guess what: They still happen in Aion not just over enemies but also over keeps which in return give exclusive access to dungeons to the faction that holds them.
Raids are nothing more than using the same tactics over and over again because all raids follow the same pattern every confrontation. Just because it lasts over 20 minutes doesn't mean it's more challenging. In PVP, you have to have a strategy ready for every class and even then players move differently and use skills differently every time.
I highly disagree that MMORPGs need massive raids. If you enjoy killing the same boss with the same pattern over and over again, good for you. A lot of people don't think it's enjoyable to be restricted to certain playtimes and to spend hours getting a raid together.