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Declarations of corporate war
JuJutsu
Member Posts: 331
in EVE Online
The ongoing discussion of taxes in npc corporations has generated a couple of questions.
About a month ago I started my own little corporation [me and two characters on an alt account]. What are the odds that someone would blow 2 million isk to declare war on me. Seems unlikely but maybe I've just been lucky.
If it happens why can't i jump to a clone all the way across the galaxy and play there? Is it possible/likely that someone tracks me down with a locator agent?
Can I just disolve the corporation and create another if someone declares war?
Comments
Both of those are legitimate methods of evading a wardec.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
if you really piss someone off for whatever reason, smacktalking, killstealing, theivery, etc then they may declare war, or if you have a poorly set up highsec POS with lots of labs and no guns, they may wardec you.
tbh it isnt going to happen, people have far better things to do with their time and wardec slots.
I believe starting a new corp over and over to avoid wardecs is illegal according to the T&Cs, or so I was told.
You will get wardec'ed for no reason. It's happened MANY times to our small industrial corp. If you really want to avoid them, dont spend too much time around jita or other major trade hubs, go find a smaller & quieter hub and region. Ppl will constantly scan your ship at gates to see what you haul, if it's valuable they can wardec you for a week or so to see if you'll pay off rather than get blown up.
I personally think the wardec'ing needs some revamp, right now many small corps die from this.
Actually, yes, it will happen. There are people out there who will look for small corps to wardec to get some high sec PVP action - isk be damned.
Look at eve-uni. They're constantly being war-dec'ed. Do you think they really piss people off or have crappy POS setups? No, people want to pickoff noobs.
Being new I have little info on this but I did see some comments in the NPC corp channel about the tax and all... Several of the vets were joking about how they'd probably form up solo/small corps and just bounce the names as the wardecs came in. From the sounds of it, that is not something unusual for small corporations to face. As already pointed out in this thread, you've probably been more lucky than you think by not having one of those groups wardec your small corp yet.
Now, with 9 days played, if it's only 2 million to declare war on another corporation... That is literally "pocket change" to many. *I* can make that in about 2 hours using an iteron industrial and a class 1 mining laser in 1.0-.8 sec space so cost wise... that's nothing. It's quite possible they could get that much back just looting your ship wrecks over a couple runs and using salvagers on them.
So, just a little advice... If/when it happens, be ready with your bail-out plan in place. All it takes is a small team to mess your day up and they are out there. Say you had to face off against even 8 of them... From your description, you'd be in a world of hurt so have a plan ready to get out of the way.
I agree, you've been lucky. I've seen stories of new player corps that get decc'd almost immediately (though they are usually a bit larger than your situation).
As mentioned, you don't want to draw a lot of attention to yourself, so be careful running things to the major stations too often, or in badly protected ships. (they'll just draw wolves)
And yes, if you get wardec'ed you can move to a jump clone across the galaxy, I do this regularly, however they can always find you if they like.
Usually, a 3 person corp just isn't worth the bother, but just in case be ready to disband and reform at a moments notice.
eidt: grammer nazi, even on myself.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
My first corp was a new players corp and we were wardec'ed often. During wars all solo activities were cancelled. Corp provided insured T1 frigs and cruisers with T1 no name modules and we would get out of our stations as soon as a dozen or more pilots were present. We lost ships a lot. We were podded a lot. On occasion we would get a kill in our flimsy ships, but more often than not we would all explode one after another in crazy kamikaze battles.
It was fun. Lots of fun. And we learn about e-war and tackling and scouts and battle-comms. It was way better than missions and corp tournaments, besides, losing those cheap, insured ships and clones cost us next to nothing.
I don't understand the fear to be wardec'ed, even for a new pilot.
Think about it, you join a game where anyone can kill you for no reason, where if not careful you can lose lots of isk in implants, ship, fit, rigs and cargo just because someone felt like killing you.
Now you get wardec'ed, you are given a full day to prepare and make sure you aren't caught with expensive implants and a PvE faction ship. What is the problem?
This is EvE. Piracy, suicide ganking and war dec's are part of it even in high sec. Every newcomer knows it. Preparing for the inevitable and then enjoying the adrenaline rush and swearing as your ship explodes a few times is part of the experience.
I find it a pity that so many players fear the fighting part of EvE. The sad fact is that most players are permanently settled in highsec, and CCP has to think of this huge player base when implementing their changes. Sometimes I believe that those with PvP characters are nothing but a divertiment, an amusing backdrop for the peace loving majority of the EvE players.
Played: UO, SWG, TR, WoW, AoC, EvE
Playing:
Interested in: JGE, LotR, TSW
The problem is wardec's take the control of what the player chooses to do (normally earn ISK from mining, ratting, mission running etc) and forces them into PVP fights where (as you noted) winning tends to be a bit uncommon (and perhaps pointless in their eyes).
Sure, if wardecs lasted a week, and then a corp became immune to another for a month people might like them a bit more, but t found it wearying to fight 3 months in a row of wardecs and never get an opportunity to make ISK the way I wanted to. (I have goals and objectives you know)
I eventually left and joined a 0.0 corp because it offered more safety and opportunity to pursue revenue generating activities rather than constant money drains. Even now, I'm in wormhole space, and basically untouchable for the most part except for an occasional roaming gang.
New players are usually consumed with learning new skills, flying new ships and earning the ISK to pay for all of that. Wardecs interfere strongly with that mechanic and hence, people dislike them.
Tell you what, you pay for all the ships I lose in wardecs and I'll come join up right now (but I gotta tell ya, those Nighthawks can get darn expensive)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What did you do when there weren't 12+ of you on to put up a good fight? You spun around in a station staring at your ship. That's a problem.
What chance did you actually have of winning that wardec? Where your opponents anywhere near your economic and military strength? I'm guessing they were much more experienced, had more players, and had more capital. That's a problem.
What did you end up doing when you couldn't actually undock and put up a fight? Chances are you stopped playing, or hopped on an alt. That's a problem.
What happens when that wardec extends from weeks to months. How long can your corp sustain providing you those free ships w/out any income? How long would a less established corp be able to sustain that? Yeah... not long. That's a problem.
They dictate the way you play the game to an extreme extent, either you can compete... or you can't(and 90% of the time you can't). If you can compete it can be a lot of fun. When you can't... you end up having to corp hop, jump to a clone halfway across the galaxy, or you just watch your ship spin in a station. It's pretty lame.
Wardecs, more often than not, aren't actually a war. They are a larger more powerful corp bullying a smaller corp. There is rarely a real reason for the war, there is rarely any objective outside of low-risk kills, and there is nothing that keeps new players more securely attached to the NPC corps.
They need limitations(corp-size comparisons, limited warzone areas, objectives). They need to cost far more money, and those costs need to scale with the size of the corp. All a wardec is at this point is sanctioned high-sec piracy.
Wardecs are great when they are used like they are meant to be used. Two corps of similar power slugging it out is very fun. That needs to be the norm instead of the exception.
Wanna know the most dangerous corp to be a part of in the entire game? It's not in a nulsec corp, its being in a small(ish) corp in highsec. It's like painting a giant bullseye on your back.
Answering two of the points of Comerb: if the corp you are in cannot muster a dozen pilots on your preferred game time, you better go and find a more suitable corp; also the chances of winning the wardec are not at all important, there are no winners nor losers in these kind of wars.
On the other hand I see the point raised by you two about being wardec'd for months, and yeah, it happens on occasion. Even the best corp cannot accumulate unlimited resources in its hangars, we used to have enough to fight for three weeks in a row but after that we needed time to recover.
Problem is not with being wardec'ed then. Problem, as I see it, is that the actual system allows being constantly wardec'ed for no reason, and yeah, that kind of wear will take its toll. Point taken.
Played: UO, SWG, TR, WoW, AoC, EvE
Playing:
Interested in: JGE, LotR, TSW
See, that's crap. That's exactly the sort of crap that leads to people only being able to join established corps. That isn't healthy for the game. If a small group of friends want to start playing and begin their own corp, that should be heavily encouraged.
Wormhole space sorta fixed this issue for experienced players, and I know a couple small corps of skilled players that are operating out of w-space now that are really enjoying the game again because they can operate in that small corp environment (which is a million times better than a large corp environment).
However, the high skillpoint requirement of being able to survive and navigate in W-space keeps the new folks from being able to play that card. Not everyone wants to join a large established playercorp just to be able to survive outside of an NPC corp. People want to build from the ground up with other people of their experience level. They want to be at the roots of that newb corp that turns into a real success. They want to be able to play with their friends without having to mass recruit just to survive. And they should have an opportunity to do that somewhere in the game.
Granted when they move out to nulsec, or even lowsec.... then sure, at that point too bad so sad... but that should be an entirely different dynamic... and they should still have the ability to grow their corp in highsec to the point they have a base large enough to move to nulsec. That used to be the whole goal of the game... you built your corp to the point it could make the move to nulsec. As it stands now, growing your corp past the wardec pirates is damn near impossible for newbs... much less actually building a corp to the point where it can compete with the mega-alliances that dominate nulsec. It takes a lot of choices out of the sandbox, and that's a damned shame.
Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing wrong with a newb corp wardeccing another newb corp, or a small corp deccing a small corp, etc etc. I think that's outstanding and gives both sides a ton of experience and fun.
What irritates me is that a corp that has absolutely no chance of competing in a war can be wardecced by a much larger more experienced corp with a comparitively huge amount of capital. When that happens there isn't any fun to be had. You just get the living crap stomped out of you. You are beat into submission to the point where you can't even undock. That isn't a good side of the game to be showing to folks just jumping out of a NPC corp. And it literally destroys the small corp concept that many people would love to participate in. At that point it isn't about "good PvP"... its about preying on easy, risk-free kills and wracking up killmails. It doesn't even work "game theme" wise... why the hell would Concord sanction that war? They wouldn't naturally, because its nothing short of straight out piracy.
It's funny to watch the whine fest about wardecs.
When someone says that they got wardeced for no reason, it is most likely half the truth because you are forgetting the power of smacktalk and misbehavior.
If you get popped and burst insults in local afterwards, you didn't get wardeced for no reason.
If you stand a good fight for couple of days, say 'Good fight' for each of your ship getting blown up, you won't be wardeced for months when your CEO contact the other one and ask politely to end the war because you did your best but now you are out of funds.
This is the other, less to be heard, truth about wardecs.
Most wardecs are from pirate or PvP oriented corps that have no knowledge of the opposing corp outside of the fact they are a soft target.
If you put up a good fight you just invite more wardecs by other PvP/pirate corps because word gets around that you "put out" so to speak. Eventually you get winded to the point that you can't put up a good fight anymore, and you either disband, move regions, or merge with an existing more powerful corp/alliance. Sure, usually if you throw out a white flag to the opposing CEO they'll give you a break, but that doesn't stop the next Corp from lining up and taking potshots.
It's funny when people pretend otherwise.
Wardecing should have its costs increased 1000 fold. Even 2 billion is chump change to many, but at least it means not replacing a fancy ship.
That and the victim corp should have a way to say "No contest" and have the war end after a couple of days. If the declarer wants to keep going after that, should have to reup the wardec, and the victim corp gets half the amount (and I'm talking billions).