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Star Vault wants you! (to help them cut their losses)
Respen
Member Posts: 12
Star Vault is not asking for a pre-order, they are asking you to fund the development of their game.
The whole premise of a pre-order is to reserve a copy of an item expected to sell out of stock. It's purpose is to give you peace of mind, knowing you'll have a copy waiting for you on opening day. It's been manipulated and molested by the gaming community as of late, and Star Vault is taking advantage of this in order to better scam you, the consumer.
Mortal Online is no where near ready for release. What is done is in such sad shape that I can not believe they are trying to pass off for a beta. To say this game will not be ready to ship on Star Vaults estimated Quarter 4 '09 is an understatement. It's the single most amateurish piece of garbage I've seen, and can not believe they are even allowing the public to view it's beta.
To add insult to injury, if you ask for a justified refund, Star Vault will not reply to you. Not even a denial e-mail. If you dispute the charge via your credit card company or bank, Star Vault will fight the dispute as fully as possible. Eventually, either you or your credit card company will end up eating the charge because they will not offer refunds. Does this sound like good business practice to anyone? What it sounds like to me is a scheme, set to cut losses of an obviously failing product.
If you are interested in this game, I urge you to think long and hard before you commit to "pre-ordering". There is absolutely no reason to pre-order at this point, and it can only bite you in the long run for doing so. I apologize, and do know that this issue has been discussed, but I just got off the phone with a very nice bank representative informing me of just how tenacious Star Vault is being. They are going out of their way to keep every penny sent to them.
As consumers, I believe that we really should fight these business practices with our wallets and I, for one, will be avoiding MO and SV even if Mortal is released in a half playable state 10 years from now.
/rant
Comments
Everything I've heard from beta pretty much backs up exactly what the OP is saying.
No one in beta is happy. The game is a LONG LONG way off from being functional, and they are seeking money any way they can, even charging for beta (one of the most underhanded things I've ever heard of from an MMO company). We could have seen this coming though, from a company that was selling hats and tshirts when all that was on the website was one pre rendered trailer they were pretending was in game footage.
They've pushed the game back like 3 times already whats a few more?
Darkfall Travelogues!
I pay the game for the release and for support starvault, I dont have to much time to play beta :-P (any beta, not only MO).
- Digital download on future release: 50€
- Digital download and three-six months of beta without month fees: 50€
What are you paying? ;-)
Not even ganna read what the OP said because he is a troll, his past posts have proven that to me. Beta isn't supossed to be a fun thing, its testing simple as that as soon as people realise that hopefully people will stop bitching. Also people are happy in beta, they actually want this game to come to an end product that they would play so they are testing because they want to be a part of creating this game.
Well since you are stating what this game needs in terms of time till its functional I can only assume you are one of the people that bought the game and are pissed because you got into an actual beta and not a free preview of the game, and because of that your butthurt.
They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift. Only people that think that they are charging for beta are people that only reason they even thought about pre-ordering is because the beta is all you care about otherwise that wouldn't be the case.
lol that pre-rendered trailer is in game, you seriously have no idea how games work, theres a big difference between a camera/single person running through a game than 2000-10000 people running through it.
You are paying money to TEST a product.
This game, before the delay, was supposed to launch in Q1 2009. Then after the delay they claimed that it would be ready for Summer. Now they delayed it until winter. Combat does not function beyond 5 people fighting, arrow flights aren't even functioning properly. This is not a beta, this is barely an alpha. There is no guarantee the game will even function in six months. The very fact that they are allowing you to legit, flat out, BUY beta, means they're struggling for funds to keep this project alive.
A company that sells merchandise based on pre rendered trailers, and sells beta...selling a beta... you'd have to be stupid to buy into a gimmick that obvious. You can want a game to be successful all you want, but that doesn't make it right for a company to charge money for you to test their game.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Not even ganna read what the OP said because he is a troll, his past posts have proven that to me. Beta isn't supossed to be a fun thing, its testing simple as that as soon as people realise that hopefully people will stop bitching. Also people are happy in beta, they actually want this game to come to an end product that they would play so they are testing because they want to be a part of creating this game.
Well since you are stating what this game needs in terms of time till its functional I can only assume you are one of the people that bought the game and are pissed because you got into an actual beta and not a free preview of the game, and because of that your butthurt.
They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift. Only people that think that they are charging for beta are people that only reason they even thought about pre-ordering is because the beta is all you care about otherwise that wouldn't be the case.
lol that pre-rendered trailer is in game, you seriously have no idea how games work, theres a big difference between a camera/single person running through a game than 2000-10000 people running through it.
So many things wrong with this post where do I begin...
The premise of a pre order is to guarantee a copy of a game that might sell out so you have it available on day one.
The premise of buying a game, is that you get a fully functioning version of the game.
Paying extra money for a loterry like chance of getting into the testing phase is nothing short of robbery. You are being cheated out of your money.
If the product was anything resembling its final form, that is one thing, but it's not. This is just a trap for fanboys, because who else would buy a game on the faith that some day 8 months from now, it might actually be fun?
And yes, the trailer was pre rendered, because the very next video they released looked absolutely NOTHING like the pre rendered trailer. They also released a shot of the combat from "beta" (turns out it was actually alpha) and their was very obvious lag, and buggy ragdolls and blood splatters, with only 5 people on screen. That was released by Starvault, that was the BEST they could come up with, 5 laggy people fighting. And you guys are giving them your money. Laughable.
Darkfall Travelogues!
So you bought a game... that will not be around for another 8 months at best, so you can "play it right away"?
Where's my Enron stock, I'll just buy some of that right there...
You are doing a service to the company. As such, beta should be free. They shouldn't make you pay for beta, because that's exactly what it is. Spin the worlds all you please, doesn't change anything.
If you could pre order the game and get into beta, even that is a shameless gimmick, albeit, one that other companies also use, but it is just as shameful. Pre ordering is so you can get your game right away when it launches and you can usually get your money back if you don't want the game anymore.
But flat out BUYING a game that is in the earliest of testing phases is beyond stupid.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Not even ganna read what the OP said because he is a troll, his past posts have proven that to me. Beta isn't supossed to be a fun thing, its testing simple as that as soon as people realise that hopefully people will stop bitching. Also people are happy in beta, they actually want this game to come to an end product that they would play so they are testing because they want to be a part of creating this game.
Well since you are stating what this game needs in terms of time till its functional I can only assume you are one of the people that bought the game and are pissed because you got into an actual beta and not a free preview of the game, and because of that your butthurt.
They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift. Only people that think that they are charging for beta are people that only reason they even thought about pre-ordering is because the beta is all you care about otherwise that wouldn't be the case.
lol that pre-rendered trailer is in game, you seriously have no idea how games work, theres a big difference between a camera/single person running through a game than 2000-10000 people running through it.
"They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift."
Taken from above reponse,
How is preordering (buying) the game being the only way to get into beta not equal to paying for the beta? Look at how insane your sentence is. Their not inviting people into the beta for free, its a paid beta, take the blinders off.
I could completely understand the 5/10 bucks for preording the game. That's normal. Your credit card gets charged 5/10 bucks, than when the game releases, you pay the rest in full since you are getting the product you paid for.
But you are paying money to a company, the entire 50+++ dollars, in hopes that in a few (many) months, you will get to play the game...Like the 10 other people that want to play it. Look at any other game out for the past few years. They never ever asked players, pay for our Alpha/beta test. They have enough money to not worry about having to bring in more. That's a sign of a game will come out. Even F2P games don't charge for beta/alpha.
You'll note I put in the past tense for your first sentence. You're a little over 2 months too late to complain about preorders. Most people who were considering it have made up their own minds one way or the other. Some people wanted to see what they were getting into first and didn't preorder. Some people carefully considered the decision, decided that the price was fair and if MO failed to meet their expectations that $50 was no big loss. Other people felt the need to jump into the next fresh thing and once the realized that beta means unfinished they decided to jump ship (sounds like your situation).
Since you clearly think you have seen enough of beta to pass judgement on the game, what block are you in? what is your purchase id #?
Not even ganna read what the OP said because he is a troll, his past posts have proven that to me. Beta isn't supossed to be a fun thing, its testing simple as that as soon as people realise that hopefully people will stop bitching. Also people are happy in beta, they actually want this game to come to an end product that they would play so they are testing because they want to be a part of creating this game.
Well since you are stating what this game needs in terms of time till its functional I can only assume you are one of the people that bought the game and are pissed because you got into an actual beta and not a free preview of the game, and because of that your butthurt.
They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift. Only people that think that they are charging for beta are people that only reason they even thought about pre-ordering is because the beta is all you care about otherwise that wouldn't be the case.
lol that pre-rendered trailer is in game, you seriously have no idea how games work, theres a big difference between a camera/single person running through a game than 2000-10000 people running through it.
So many things wrong with this post where do I begin...
The premise of a pre order is to guarantee a copy of a game that might sell out so you have it available on day one.
The premise of buying a game, is that you get a fully functioning version of the game.
Ok this is a big thing that sicks out, for once the pre-order of MO is the only game honestly that there is an actual chance it might sell out, any high traffic game, WoW, AoC when it was hyped up the wazoo, WaR, LoTRO, Halo Series have never sold out, pre-orders are basically for extra gifts its not to make sure you get a copy anymore. They judge how much hype is behind a game so they can ship enough copies, so in turn there is really no chance of a game selling out.
We did Pre-order the final functioning version, we didnt pay 75 dollars for nothing but beta, I would never do that and thats what your trying to get across is we did, come release I will have the final product. I will not have to buy the actual final copy, I already paid for it.
Arguements like what if it doesn't ship is full on speculation SV is one of the first actual Indy MMO companies to have no debt, which says the have th availability to get loans to further the development if need be. markets.ft.com/ft/tearsheets/financialsSummary.asp
So stop being so butthurt and trying to ruin a possible great MMO and suck it up or go cry and get a refund already and shut up.
Not even ganna read what the OP said because he is a troll, his past posts have proven that to me. Beta isn't supossed to be a fun thing, its testing simple as that as soon as people realise that hopefully people will stop bitching. Also people are happy in beta, they actually want this game to come to an end product that they would play so they are testing because they want to be a part of creating this game.
Well since you are stating what this game needs in terms of time till its functional I can only assume you are one of the people that bought the game and are pissed because you got into an actual beta and not a free preview of the game, and because of that your butthurt.
They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift. Only people that think that they are charging for beta are people that only reason they even thought about pre-ordering is because the beta is all you care about otherwise that wouldn't be the case.
lol that pre-rendered trailer is in game, you seriously have no idea how games work, theres a big difference between a camera/single person running through a game than 2000-10000 people running through it.
So many things wrong with this post where do I begin...
The premise of a pre order is to guarantee a copy of a game that might sell out so you have it available on day one.
The premise of buying a game, is that you get a fully functioning version of the game.
Ok this is a big thing that sicks out, for once the pre-order of MO is the only game honestly that there is an actual chance it might sell out, any high traffic game, WoW, AoC when it was hyped up the wazoo, WaR, LoTRO, Halo Series have never sold out, pre-orders are basically for extra gifts its not to make sure you get a copy anymore. They judge how much hype is behind a game so they can ship enough copies, so in turn there is really no chance of a game selling out.
We did Pre-order the final functioning version, we didnt pay 75 dollars for nothing but beta, I would never do that and thats what your trying to get across is we did, come release I will have the final product. I will not have to buy the actual final copy, I already paid for it.
Arguements like what if it doesn't ship is full on speculation SV is one of the first actual Indy MMO companies to have no debt, which says the have th availability to get loans to further the development if need be. markets.ft.com/ft/tearsheets/financialsSummary.asp
So stop being so butthurt and trying to ruin a possible great MMO and suck it up or go cry and get a refund already and shut up.
Good freaking GOD you payed 75 dollars for a game that might not even release for another year and that looks like they're going under? A new moron born every day...
Darkfall Travelogues!
Not even ganna read what the OP said because he is a troll, his past posts have proven that to me. Beta isn't supossed to be a fun thing, its testing simple as that as soon as people realise that hopefully people will stop bitching. Also people are happy in beta, they actually want this game to come to an end product that they would play so they are testing because they want to be a part of creating this game.
Well since you are stating what this game needs in terms of time till its functional I can only assume you are one of the people that bought the game and are pissed because you got into an actual beta and not a free preview of the game, and because of that your butthurt.
They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift. Only people that think that they are charging for beta are people that only reason they even thought about pre-ordering is because the beta is all you care about otherwise that wouldn't be the case.
lol that pre-rendered trailer is in game, you seriously have no idea how games work, theres a big difference between a camera/single person running through a game than 2000-10000 people running through it.
So many things wrong with this post where do I begin...
The premise of a pre order is to guarantee a copy of a game that might sell out so you have it available on day one.
The premise of buying a game, is that you get a fully functioning version of the game.
Ok this is a big thing that sicks out, for once the pre-order of MO is the only game honestly that there is an actual chance it might sell out, any high traffic game, WoW, AoC when it was hyped up the wazoo, WaR, LoTRO, Halo Series have never sold out, pre-orders are basically for extra gifts its not to make sure you get a copy anymore. They judge how much hype is behind a game so they can ship enough copies, so in turn there is really no chance of a game selling out.
We did Pre-order the final functioning version, we didnt pay 75 dollars for nothing but beta, I would never do that and thats what your trying to get across is we did, come release I will have the final product. I will not have to buy the actual final copy, I already paid for it.
Arguements like what if it doesn't ship is full on speculation SV is one of the first actual Indy MMO companies to have no debt, which says the have th availability to get loans to further the development if need be. markets.ft.com/ft/tearsheets/financialsSummary.asp
So stop being so butthurt and trying to ruin a possible great MMO and suck it up or go cry and get a refund already and shut up.
Good freaking GOD you payed 75 dollars for a game that might not even release for another year and that looks like they're going under? A new moron born every day...
lol, obviously your either butthurt about the game, or your just a tightass. People buy stocks all the time with no foresight of what is going to happen, people gamble all the time without knowing what will happen, Hell people go on dates and shell out far more than 75 bucks just in a hope of getting lucky. 75 bucks for something that may keep my attention for a few months if not longer sure I have no problem in taking that chance. I don't spend my money on other games anyway because paying 60/50 bucks for a game that keeps you entertained for 8-10 hours is just stupid.
So what do you base your "looks like they're going under" on? The fact that they are debt free?
Gee didn't know that having no debt meant you are a financial failure. Of course if you have bought into the American charge now pay later ponzi scheme then I can see how you would think that way since that was what you were taught in school.
Simply put, the money that I spent (on this game which on paper and all other info pertained, satisfies my gaming needs) as a preorder in full last month is just the same as me buying it when it comes out.
This way I have the option to test the game and check it out if I want to. I also get limited edition box set too.
I don't have to test the game if I don't want to. I don't have to log in every day and make reports and such like. I have a choice.
I chose to purchase a game instead of buying it (like I would) now instead of down the road. Whether 3-5 months or whatever doesn't matter to me. The game is still scheduled for release by end of year, if it drops back a bit that is ok with me too.
I get some nice goodies and an option to test if desired.
What I have is a set up way better, and a system way better that a game like Darkfall that at this point in time handled things in a rather amusing way.
Some people are just informed, some aren't, and some have the capacity to look at the bigger picture with disposable income.
Now I have something tangible to relate to all that info looked into before my purchase and one day will talk about it more in depth.
For now I am happy with the progress. Patch notes are there for public perusal. Combined re-enforce my outlook that right now at this point in time I have no regrets in pre-ordering a game.
So what do you base your "looks like they're going under" on? The fact that they are debt free?
Gee didn't know that having no debt meant you are a financial failure. Of course if you have bought into the American charge now pay later ponzi scheme then I can see how you would think that way since that was what you were taught in school.
He works for Adventurine / Darkfall or has some liason thing going with them (just like I have volunteer for FC in things). At least thats what I remember him saying in the DF forums. Plus I'm content in that people who preordered MO don't have to pay again for an NA version if from there.
So what do you base your "looks like they're going under" on? The fact that they are debt free?
Gee didn't know that having no debt meant you are a financial failure. Of course if you have bought into the American charge now pay later ponzi scheme then I can see how you would think that way since that was what you were taught in school.
He works for Adventurine / Darkfall or has some liason thing going with them (just like I have volunteer for FC in things). At least thats what I remember him saying in the DF forums. Plus I'm content in that people who preordered MO don't have to pay again for an NA version if from there.
lol, Figures. Darkfall followers and maybe even affiliates of AV already have been screwing with MO lagged out the website and store when it first came out.
*shrugs*
I had the $50 and I am interested in what they want to do.
As far as funding a game during development ...I did that for UO for 10 years too, so why not for these guys?
Its your money to spend as how you see fit. As for myself, if im going to fund the development of something i want a bit more than hopefully being able to pay a subscription fee for the product if it comes to fruition. Hopefully the game will come to be and be what you hope, heaven knows we need some "out of the box" thinking in the MMO genre but i do not have the faith some of you do.
Basically all companies ask their customers to fund their operations. If no one buy cars from Ford, it will not survive. The question is, does Star Vault give its customers value for money? Compared to the ordinary monthly subscription fee the beta testers pay nothing under the beta period, so most of them would think it is worth the risk of the possibility that MO shoudl turn out not to their satisfaction. Some of them might want the free test period even longer. Many of the tester may consider it specially favorable to be able to influence the design of the game in the early development phase.
EDIT: Usually I would support consumer rights, but in this case SV will in big trouble if it is free to cancel. Digital sales are different. You can never, from any place, buy and download a music, then cancel and upload it back.
Not even ganna read what the OP said because he is a troll, his past posts have proven that to me. Beta isn't supossed to be a fun thing, its testing simple as that as soon as people realise that hopefully people will stop bitching. Also people are happy in beta, they actually want this game to come to an end product that they would play so they are testing because they want to be a part of creating this game.
Well since you are stating what this game needs in terms of time till its functional I can only assume you are one of the people that bought the game and are pissed because you got into an actual beta and not a free preview of the game, and because of that your butthurt.
They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift. Only people that think that they are charging for beta are people that only reason they even thought about pre-ordering is because the beta is all you care about otherwise that wouldn't be the case.
lol that pre-rendered trailer is in game, you seriously have no idea how games work, theres a big difference between a camera/single person running through a game than 2000-10000 people running through it.
"They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift."
Taken from above reponse,
How is preordering (buying) the game being the only way to get into beta not equal to paying for the beta? Look at how insane your sentence is. Their not inviting people into the beta for free, its a paid beta, take the blinders off.
finally - someone else gets it
was beginning to wonder
and along with what you stated it has been admitted that beta would not even be taking place if not for those who paid to work for them
and, that's just fine by me - i like what we are being promised - just wish more would admit the above facts (not sure why though - just a quirk i guess)
Not even ganna read what the OP said because he is a troll, his past posts have proven that to me. Beta isn't supossed to be a fun thing, its testing simple as that as soon as people realise that hopefully people will stop bitching. Also people are happy in beta, they actually want this game to come to an end product that they would play so they are testing because they want to be a part of creating this game.
Well since you are stating what this game needs in terms of time till its functional I can only assume you are one of the people that bought the game and are pissed because you got into an actual beta and not a free preview of the game, and because of that your butthurt.
They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift. Only people that think that they are charging for beta are people that only reason they even thought about pre-ordering is because the beta is all you care about otherwise that wouldn't be the case.
lol that pre-rendered trailer is in game, you seriously have no idea how games work, theres a big difference between a camera/single person running through a game than 2000-10000 people running through it.
"They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift."
Taken from above reponse,
How is preordering (buying) the game being the only way to get into beta not equal to paying for the beta? Look at how insane your sentence is. Their not inviting people into the beta for free, its a paid beta, take the blinders off.
finally - someone else gets it
was beginning to wonder
and along with what you stated it has been admitted that beta would not even be taking place if not for those who paid to work for them
and, that's just fine by me - i like what we are being promised - just wish more would admit the above facts (not sure why though - just a quirk i guess)
Its as simple as this, if I was offered the ability to pre-order just the game out of 10000 copies I would pre-order it because there is an actual limitation. If I was offered the ability to buy the beta I would not. So in turn I paid for the final copy of the game I did not pay for beta, and anyone who paid the 75 bucks or whatever it was for them just for the beta are retards simple as that and they have shown that by wanting charge-backs because beta wasn't what they expected but were told how beta would be even before they pre-ordered.
Not even ganna read what the OP said because he is a troll, his past posts have proven that to me. Beta isn't supossed to be a fun thing, its testing simple as that as soon as people realise that hopefully people will stop bitching. Also people are happy in beta, they actually want this game to come to an end product that they would play so they are testing because they want to be a part of creating this game.
Well since you are stating what this game needs in terms of time till its functional I can only assume you are one of the people that bought the game and are pissed because you got into an actual beta and not a free preview of the game, and because of that your butthurt.
They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift. Only people that think that they are charging for beta are people that only reason they even thought about pre-ordering is because the beta is all you care about otherwise that wouldn't be the case.
lol that pre-rendered trailer is in game, you seriously have no idea how games work, theres a big difference between a camera/single person running through a game than 2000-10000 people running through it.
"They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift."
Taken from above reponse,
How is preordering (buying) the game being the only way to get into beta not equal to paying for the beta? Look at how insane your sentence is. Their not inviting people into the beta for free, its a paid beta, take the blinders off.
finally - someone else gets it
was beginning to wonder
and along with what you stated it has been admitted that beta would not even be taking place if not for those who paid to work for them
and, that's just fine by me - i like what we are being promised - just wish more would admit the above facts (not sure why though - just a quirk i guess)
Its as simple as this, if I was offered the ability to pre-order just the game out of 10000 copies I would pre-order it because there is an actual limitation. If I was offered the ability to buy the beta I would not. So in turn I paid for the final copy of the game I did not pay for beta, and anyone who paid the 75 bucks or whatever it was for them just for the beta are retards simple as that and they have shown that by wanting charge-backs because beta wasn't what they expected but were told how beta would be even before they pre-ordered.
Ablo, I could agree with you only if they called it something different, like a preview. But their not, its called a beta, and to get in you have to pre order, so in my book it falls under the category of a paided beta. Also I'm not even saying its bad, If i was interested enough in the game I would pay to be in the beta also. But at least I could admit thats whats happening.
Lol ....... drama much?
~Hairysun
http://www.straightdope.com/
Not even ganna read what the OP said because he is a troll, his past posts have proven that to me. Beta isn't supossed to be a fun thing, its testing simple as that as soon as people realise that hopefully people will stop bitching. Also people are happy in beta, they actually want this game to come to an end product that they would play so they are testing because they want to be a part of creating this game.
Well since you are stating what this game needs in terms of time till its functional I can only assume you are one of the people that bought the game and are pissed because you got into an actual beta and not a free preview of the game, and because of that your butthurt.
They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift. Only people that think that they are charging for beta are people that only reason they even thought about pre-ordering is because the beta is all you care about otherwise that wouldn't be the case.
lol that pre-rendered trailer is in game, you seriously have no idea how games work, theres a big difference between a camera/single person running through a game than 2000-10000 people running through it.
"They didn't charge for beta they charged for the game and beta was an additional gift."
Taken from above reponse,
How is preordering (buying) the game being the only way to get into beta not equal to paying for the beta? Look at how insane your sentence is. Their not inviting people into the beta for free, its a paid beta, take the blinders off.
finally - someone else gets it
was beginning to wonder
and along with what you stated it has been admitted that beta would not even be taking place if not for those who paid to work for them
and, that's just fine by me - i like what we are being promised - just wish more would admit the above facts (not sure why though - just a quirk i guess)
Its as simple as this, if I was offered the ability to pre-order just the game out of 10000 copies I would pre-order it because there is an actual limitation. If I was offered the ability to buy the beta I would not. So in turn I paid for the final copy of the game I did not pay for beta, and anyone who paid the 75 bucks or whatever it was for them just for the beta are retards simple as that and they have shown that by wanting charge-backs because beta wasn't what they expected but were told how beta would be even before they pre-ordered.
Ablo, I could agree with you only if they called it something different, like a preview. But their not, its called a beta, and to get in you have to pre order, so in my book it falls under the category of a paided beta. Also I'm not even saying its bad, If i was interested enough in the game I would pay to be in the beta also. But at least I could admit thats whats happening.
Thing is, since they are offering beta with the pre-order they don't need to give more beta spots out, they have already been giving out beta spots to reputable people on the forums.