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MMO vet, but I need some help with kiting

GameMonger71GameMonger71 Member UncommonPosts: 120

I have played many MMOs and have played rangers and casters in most of them.   I suppose I have done some form of amateur kiting before (maybe), but I know that I have not "optimized" my classes by my less than stellar kiting skills.  I am assuming here that it is more than DoT, root, run and then some repeat variant.

I may be an old dog, but I would like to learn some new tricks and up my game a bit.

Can someone please provide me a link to a good kiting guide (if one exists) or explain the specific and detailed nuances of kiting for rangers and casters within Aion?

Thanks!

Comments

  • FastTxFastTx Member UncommonPosts: 756

    Hard to find detailed guides on "How To" when the game hasn't been released yet here. If there was such a guide you could check AionSource as that is the central fanbase site.

  • ninja33284ninja33284 Member Posts: 82

    a simple rule to kiting is this, Hit them with your DOT first.. then hit them with a Movement Impairing effect, Then start the Big damage attacks, when Step 1 or step 2 runs out, Redo.. All while walking backwards as needed. im a spell caster in almost Every MMO ive played, this is usualy the best way to do it

    but varients of such are Acceptable because there is no right and wrong way to do it.. well the wrong way would be dieing but you get my point lol

  • FkinglinuxFkinglinux Member Posts: 156

    From what I've read in 1.5 jumpshotting is also nerfed on rangers, so their probably going to lose some of their kiting ability.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 24,949
    Originally posted by GameMonger71


    I have played many MMOs and have played rangers and casters in most of them.   I suppose I have done some form of amateur kiting before (maybe), but I know that I have not "optimized" my classes by my less than stellar kiting skills.  I am assuming here that it is more than DoT, root, run and then some repeat variant.
    I may be an old dog, but I would like to learn some new tricks and up my game a bit.
    Can someone please provide me a link to a good kiting guide (if one exists) or explain the specific and detailed nuances of kiting for rangers and casters within Aion?
    Thanks!



     

    Well, I can't link you to a guide but personally I prefer point and click for kiting. You turn on a dime and can see the whole area around you (meaning you can also see what is behind you.)

    It's my mode of preference. Just try it some time and see. You can go back and forth between wasd and point and click during gameplay.




  • GameMonger71GameMonger71 Member UncommonPosts: 120

    First, thanks for the replies.

    FastTx, I think you misunderstood me a bit when I mentioned ranger or Aion specifics on kiting.  I was really trying to say only if Aion kiting differed from "normal" kiting (which after playing Closed beta a bit, I would have to say not really 99% of the time).

     

    Ninja/Sovrath....your posts really get to my main question.  I had really thought I may have been missing something from kiting, because when people mention it, they usually make it sound like some intricate maneuver.  So (from ninja)  "a simple rule to kiting is this, Hit them with your DOT first.. then hit them with a Movement Impairing effect, Then start the Big damage attacks, when Step 1 or step 2 runs out, Redo.."  Ok, up to here I am with you and I have been kiting for some time like this.

     

    My question comes with the end of ninja's post and Sovrath's reply.  Ninja, you indicated : " All while walking backwards as needed" which is the way I have kited in the past (e.g. facing the mob and slowly walking backwards while shooting or casting the above mentioned DoT/big hitter, snare/stun, rinse and repeat.  Sovrath's reply about point and click, turning on a dime, etc makes me think however that he is shooting/casting as above, then quickly running away from the mob to some pre-determined max range distance before turing back around and facing the enemy once more for the shooting/spell cycle.  I have not used this technique and it seems like it would use a ton more room.

     

    So, I guess my question now boils down to which kiting method is usually used.  I can definitely pull off the back up while shooting method (been doing that for a bit), but the other method (shoot, turn run, turn back and shoot) seems a bit more difficult to employ, especially in areas where monsters aggro (the early level out door mine areas in Aion for instance) . 

     

    I know this all seems very minor and silly to most of you, but it is a small detail that I have often wondered about, so I finally asked.

    Thanks again!

  • AviyurAviyur Member Posts: 53

    Here's a pretty good PvP video:

    It's not so much a "guide" for kiting, but the maker annotes some key abilities which help him kite etc.

    WoW nerds beware, I come equipped with lazers and anti-QQ missiles. If you mess with me, I will $%£@ you.

  • demarc01demarc01 Member UncommonPosts: 429

    Basics are pretty much the same with all kiting methods.

    Slow MoB.

    DoTs on.

    DPS as you can.

    Personally I've always used the run and gun method when kiting. Run away from the MoB to get distance then spin on a dime (use the mouse to rotate - turning manually WASD is too slow) Lay down as much DPS as poss until the MoB closes then spin about again and put some more distance.

    As above posters mentioned always turn using the mouse, never with keys. Esp in PvP where players are gonna be moving, keys are next to useless for turning (Of course I use them for fwd/bck/strafe functions)

    A good tip is to buy a decent mouse. It makes a WORLD of diff. Personally I use a Microsoft Sidewinder mouse, has great features like on the fly DPI switching. You'll find a good mouse is alot more responsive. The Mouse "sensitivity" settings in games will generally get you by if you dont have a good mouse so remember to play with them and get them set to whats optimal to you personally. Some people cant deal with high settings initially as a quick jerk will spin your character/movement 180, which can disorientate people, but thats where the very best kiting comes in. Set it (the DPI or sensitivity) to where you are comftable, then over time try to up it slightly every now and then ... eventually you'll be spinning on a dime without even thinking about it.

     

    Hope thats kinda the information you were looking for.

    As for spell/ability rotations .. sorry cant help you there as I dont play Aion :)




  • abyss610abyss610 Member Posts: 1,131

    first i'll give you a heads up on rangers, they are bar none the worst class from 10-16 its like pulling teeth to lvl up. you hav like 2 bow attacks till 16, you have a root but you have to buy vendor stuff to use it each time. and the cooldown on it puts it more of the catagory of "better save it might NEED it later". now i'm far from a hater of Aion if you check my posts, but damn rangers are just baad till atleast 16 and don't really start to shine till early 20s (22 i think). problem is you keep getting melee attacks when you NEVER USE THEM anymore. atleast not enough to justify not getting more bow attacks to fill out your rotation, and the main bow attack is on the same cooldown as your sword attack you have. but att 22 you get "retreating slash" nice attack that stuns them and knocks you back away form them like 25 yards.

    once you get that, you can use the backstab in your spell rotation. what i do is stealth up, backstab, then use the slash to stun and get some distance,the snare arrow then the dmg abilities/combos. kiting itself tho i use a nostromo keypad so i can run fine and rotate the cammera around to see where i am to the mob. and your snare arrow cooldown is just a lil short of the duration. but for pvp....most melee classes have a way to get in close to you if you try to kite them, so that you'll have to just trial and error for yourself to get the timing and what to expect from certain classes namely the templar and assassin. can't speak for the gladiators if they have a way to get to you. i do know they have a ranged attack, i'm sure they couldn't kill you with just that 1 ability if you stayed at range. templars will grab you and drag you to them it also snares you. assassin have a way to dash in and get you every fast, teleports and i think 1 more to get in close to a player trying to kite. assassin also has a sort of nuke if they get signets carved into through other abilities. kinda like combo points from wow or accusations from warhammer witch hunter.

  • demarc01demarc01 Member UncommonPosts: 429
    Originally posted by Aviyur


    Here's a pretty good PvP video:
    It's not so much a "guide" for kiting, but the maker annotes some key abilities which help him kite etc.



     

    I watched the vid. Not sure how useful it will be to the OP.

    Seems most of the players he attacked were either much lower level than him (hes hitting them for 700~ thier return blows are 120~) or are totally confused. Alot of them stood around looking bemused while thier health dropped lol.

    I did notice one thing though ... now I've not played Aion but it seems from that vid that Aion has an auto face function? Wether it is automatic or a setting I dont know but on several occasions he was facing away from his target, activated an ability and it fired off while refacing for him. Is that the case? Does Aion have an auto face function where if you attack it will automatically face your taget for you?

    If so then MoB kiting will be very very easy in this game, snare, DoT run away and keep hitting abilitys .. the only time you'll have to actually manually spin is when you want to put more ground between you and the MoB. Kinda easy mode for PvE but I can see why they did it for PvP with the 3D combat space, it'd be very hard to track a target in a pitched battle in a 3D arena and players would soon get pissed with "Must face target" messages LOL.




  • DameonkDameonk Member UncommonPosts: 1,914
    Originally posted by Fkinglinux


    From what I've read in 1.5 jumpshotting is also nerfed on rangers, so their probably going to lose some of their kiting ability.

     

    It wasn't "nerfed", as you put it.  It was a confirmed bug in the game and it was fixed.

    "There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."

  • GoldenDogGoldenDog Member Posts: 586

    Keep the camera angle pointing behind you (ie you can see your face).

    Point and click movement works best: that way you have your keyboard hand free to use the skills.

     

    Instead of running backwards, run forwards in the aft direction.  You'll move faster and yes the ranger can shoot backwards over their shoulder.

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  • TezcatTezcat Member UncommonPosts: 81
    Originally posted by ninja33284


    a simple rule to kiting is this, Hit them with your DOT first.. then hit them with a Movement Impairing effect, Then start the Big damage attacks, when Step 1 or step 2 runs out, Redo.. All while walking backwards as needed. im a spell caster in almost Every MMO ive played, this is usualy the best way to do it
    but varients of such are Acceptable because there is no right and wrong way to do it.. well the wrong way would be dieing but you get my point lol



     

    One thing to be aware of, DO NOT walk backwards while trying to deal damage. You will do 70% less damage walking backwards. There is all sorts of movement modifiers in Aion, so you'll need to think a little more while kiting. There's a good explanation of the movement modifiers on the Aion wiki, via the main site.

    Be careful of what you read here. It seems some of the people offering advice have not played, researched or are just clueless about Aion.


  • RomeoJulietRomeoJuliet Member Posts: 3
    Originally posted by Tezcat

    Originally posted by ninja33284


    a simple rule to kiting is this, Hit them with your DOT first.. then hit them with a Movement Impairing effect, Then start the Big damage attacks, when Step 1 or step 2 runs out, Redo.. All while walking backwards as needed. im a spell caster in almost Every MMO ive played, this is usualy the best way to do it
    but varients of such are Acceptable because there is no right and wrong way to do it.. well the wrong way would be dieing but you get my point lol



     

    One thing to be aware of, DO NOT walk backwards while trying to deal damage. You will do 70% less damage walking backwards. There is all sorts of movement modifiers in Aion, so you'll need to think a little more while kiting. There's a good explanation of the movement modifiers on the Aion wiki, via the main site.

    Be careful of what you read here. It seems some of the people offering advice have not played, researched or are just clueless about Aion.

    A link would be nice, it seems there is only speculation of these modifiers and its not fact.

  • Tenken29Tenken29 Member Posts: 151
    Originally posted by Dameonk

    Originally posted by Fkinglinux


    From what I've read in 1.5 jumpshotting is also nerfed on rangers, so their probably going to lose some of their kiting ability.

     

    It wasn't "nerfed", as you put it.  It was a confirmed bug in the game and it was fixed.



     

    Was this in patch notes? Feel like this is the first time ive heard of it being fixed, I thought I heard people say this was working as intended. My mistake maybe, thanks.

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  • scodavisscodavis Member Posts: 190
    Originally posted by RomeoJuliet

    Originally posted by Tezcat

    Originally posted by ninja33284


    a simple rule to kiting is this, Hit them with your DOT first.. then hit them with a Movement Impairing effect, Then start the Big damage attacks, when Step 1 or step 2 runs out, Redo.. All while walking backwards as needed. im a spell caster in almost Every MMO ive played, this is usualy the best way to do it
    but varients of such are Acceptable because there is no right and wrong way to do it.. well the wrong way would be dieing but you get my point lol



     

    One thing to be aware of, DO NOT walk backwards while trying to deal damage. You will do 70% less damage walking backwards. There is all sorts of movement modifiers in Aion, so you'll need to think a little more while kiting. There's a good explanation of the movement modifiers on the Aion wiki, via the main site.

    Be careful of what you read here. It seems some of the people offering advice have not played, researched or are just clueless about Aion.

    A link would be nice, it seems there is only speculation of these modifiers and its not fact.

    powerwiki.na.aiononline.com/aion/Combat

     

     In your browser locate the 'find' function.  In Firefox it is under EDIT->FIND.  Search for 'defending yourself' and it will pick up that phrase in the table of contents.  Then hit 'NEXT' and it will bring you to the section with all the movement modifiers.

    Make sure you follow these instructions after hitting the above link.  The information you seek is there.

    The game has been out in Asia for a while.  No need to speculate because there is a ton of information on the web if you look.

     

  • kramsterkramster Member UncommonPosts: 93

    I personally use Click2move when playing ranged, it allows you to run in any direction safely if you wind the camera back so you have 360 degree vision (ther is a selectable option in the setup for max view distance) C2M also frees up your left hand from the wasd buttons.

    Pre level 20 I found, in Aion, I mostly laid trap (first one is a snare which helps), CC, DOT, direct damage att, switch to daggers and run through mob to backstab...if mob is still alive click to run 'forward away from mob' then repeat sequence as required. Most normal mobs were toast after one cycle and it lessons the risk of getting adds from misplaced clicks

    NEVER run backwards as already pointed out, it severly gimps your DPS

    Post L20 you get a bit more control on the mobs so kiting is only required on 'special' mobs or those higher level.

  • kujiikujii Member UncommonPosts: 190

    http://www.aionsource.com/forum/ranger/30337-ranger-faq.html

     

    7.3 Jumpshot

    While seen as an exploit by some players, jumpshot has been declared working as intended by the developers. It is used to cancel the animation of certain skills that would otherwise leave you immobile for its duration. This is a huge boon to kiting, but requires a lot of practice.

    To initiate a jumpshot, use an ability while jumping when you reached the peak of your jump or are already on the downward movement again. This can be practiced without moving, but is more effective to maintain a certain direction.

     7.4 Movement Modifiers

    According to the official PowerWiki, whenever you move into a direction you gain the following boni/mali:

    Forward:

    +10% Physical Damage

    +10% Magic Damage

    -20% Physical Defense

    -20% Magic Damage (Note: probably typo, should be -20% Magic Defense)

    Backward:

    +500% to Parry

    +500% to Block

    -70% Physical Damage

    -40% Movement Speed

    Left/Right Strafe:

    +300% to Evasion

    -70% Physical Damage

    -20% Movement Speed

    However, these values are not commonly accepted, and it is unclear if they affect both melee and ranged damage, and both autoattacks and abilites. The ingame character profile does indicate the boni and mali, but not their respective values. With the limited confirmed knowledge we have about this matter, maintaining a forward movement while kiting is recommended in order to maximize damage.

    A quick experiment on a level 23 Ranger over 24 autoattacks, no abilities, same mob level & type for each attempt gave:

    average 78.20 damage while standing still

    average 54.20 damage while running backwards

    average 90.54 damage while running forwards

    Of course the sample size is too low, but it should give a rough idea of the damage increase forward movement while kiting provides.

     

     

    Pre 1.5     I believe

  • kramsterkramster Member UncommonPosts: 93
    Originally posted by kujii


     
    A quick experiment on a level 23 Ranger over 24 autoattacks, no abilities, same mob level & type for each attempt gave:

    average 78.20 damage while standing still

    average 54.20 damage while running backwards

    average 90.54 damage while running forwards
    Of course the sample size is too low, but it should give a rough idea of the damage increase forward movement while kiting provides.

     
     
    Pre 1.5     I believe



     

    I reckon that makes the forward/strafe damage reduction to be 30% which seems more reasonable.

    Maybe during a translation reduces damage TO 70% has been read as reduces BY 70%...a ray of hope maybe

    NOTE my math is not brilliant tho

  • DevilXaphanDevilXaphan Member UncommonPosts: 1,144
    Originally posted by RomeoJuliet

    Originally posted by Tezcat

    Originally posted by ninja33284


    a simple rule to kiting is this, Hit them with your DOT first.. then hit them with a Movement Impairing effect, Then start the Big damage attacks, when Step 1 or step 2 runs out, Redo.. All while walking backwards as needed. im a spell caster in almost Every MMO ive played, this is usualy the best way to do it
    but varients of such are Acceptable because there is no right and wrong way to do it.. well the wrong way would be dieing but you get my point lol



     

    One thing to be aware of, DO NOT walk backwards while trying to deal damage. You will do 70% less damage walking backwards. There is all sorts of movement modifiers in Aion, so you'll need to think a little more while kiting. There's a good explanation of the movement modifiers on the Aion wiki, via the main site.

    Be careful of what you read here. It seems some of the people offering advice have not played, researched or are just clueless about Aion.

    A link would be nice, it seems there is only speculation of these modifiers and its not fact.

     

    It was confirmed by Liv in a youtube video not long ago and is factual info.

    image
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 24,949
    Originally posted by kramster


    I personally use Click2move when playing ranged, it allows you to run in any direction safely if you wind the camera back so you have 360 degree vision (ther is a selectable option in the setup for max view distance) C2M also frees up your left hand from the wasd buttons.
    Pre level 20 I found, in Aion, I mostly laid trap (first one is a snare which helps), CC, DOT, direct damage att, switch to daggers and run through mob to backstab...if mob is still alive click to run 'forward away from mob' then repeat sequence as required. Most normal mobs were toast after one cycle and it lessons the risk of getting adds from misplaced clicks
    NEVER run backwards as already pointed out, it severly gimps your DPS
    Post L20 you get a bit more control on the mobs so kiting is only required on 'special' mobs or those higher level.



     

    And that's the thing, it limits your dps (in this game) and you are slow.

    I saw a ranger in Aion do this same thing and all I could do was shake my head. My first thought was "it must be a WoW thing" (meaning way of kiting in WoW). and my next thought was the same as we are discussing here. though you get some sort of defensive modifier you still will get hit. Defensive modifers are great but in the end, if the opponent can't hit you then...

    he can't hit you!

     




  • GameMonger71GameMonger71 Member UncommonPosts: 120

    Sorry to make this thread a bit longer, but I just wanted to say thanks to all!  That was just the info I was looking for.  I had no idea about the movement penalties to damage.  I wonder how many games I have played and lost damage without knowing.  I guess I need to pay a bit more attention to the numbers.

     

    Thanks and good hunting!

  • darksider27darksider27 Member Posts: 44

    The bonuses to damage/defense/evasion based on your direction are SMALL bonuses, not enough to turn the tide in a big battle, but enough to influence the events of a 1v1 duel or even smaller battles...especially when you use them at the right time...an assassin going sideways just before a spin/stun/knockdown attack could prevent it from landing, a  templar moving backwards at the right time could save him from a critical strike, or save some damage against a boss/castle lord (whatever they are called), and moving forward at the right time can add just that little extra to a backstab.

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  • ninja33284ninja33284 Member Posts: 82
    Originally posted by Tezcat

    Originally posted by ninja33284


    a simple rule to kiting is this, Hit them with your DOT first.. then hit them with a Movement Impairing effect, Then start the Big damage attacks, when Step 1 or step 2 runs out, Redo.. All while walking backwards as needed. im a spell caster in almost Every MMO ive played, this is usualy the best way to do it
    but varients of such are Acceptable because there is no right and wrong way to do it.. well the wrong way would be dieing but you get my point lol



     

    One thing to be aware of, DO NOT walk backwards while trying to deal damage. You will do 70% less damage walking backwards. There is all sorts of movement modifiers in Aion, so you'll need to think a little more while kiting. There's a good explanation of the movement modifiers on the Aion wiki, via the main site.

    Be careful of what you read here. It seems some of the people offering advice have not played, researched or are just clueless about Aion.

    i was talking about general Kiting, but thank you for clarifaction, i didn not know about this Movement modiefier, but when i said walk back wards i ment as a run away, stop cast run away some more, i should be more clear on my definitions from now on.

    But i truly thank you for the Modifier thing now i can let more know of this

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