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It's Vanguard on steroids :(

2

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  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by Fkinglinux
    Originally posted by popinjay  

    Originally posted by HavenAE2035

    Originally posted by Fkinglinux
     
    Its Vanguard on steroids, after steroids made vanguards balls wither and die, because it has no pvp.
     
     
    Excuse me, but I feel you are lost.  The "childish, mindless,  PvP is what makes an MMO an MMO" mindset forum is over there... You know, where all the whiney 12 and 13 year old are standing?  Some people call it Warhammer
    Who cares about PvP?  It's a pointless online pissing match that is ALWAYS unbalanced in favor of one class or another.  PvP is so played out and boring in nearly ever game it is present in that I could honestly care less if I ever kill another PC.



    Changed that. It's no longer the WOW fans who are running around saying that for the most part. Mostly everyone knows that's a PvE heavy game with PvP only recently getting a spike. Besides, Blizzard is releasing Cataclysm with a nice chunk of PvE stuff again because that's what most of the people do there anyways.
     
     

    I found it was the diehard WAR fans saying that above a lot. They live now whining in the AION forums because that game is going to take it's PvP lunch money. They cry constantly about "No PvP from Level 1" in AION and how that's going to be a dealbreaker for North America/Europe blah blah blah, lol.

    If you can imagine someone being as juvenile as that about not being able to spam two knife skills chasing a level 4 guy around in a zone to not sub a game, I can't think of one. Completely childish because "PvP pwns at Level 1!"



     
    Look, I don't mean to be rude, but I find it insulting that someone would take a FFA PvP game and compare it to a PvE game and say its the FFA PvP game on steroids.

    Didn't mean to "offend" you. But you know, you didn't actually make the game so why do you care about comparisions?

    I said nothing about steroids so if you have a beef, that's with someone else so that's better directed that way.

    My post is not regarding you. I don't know your gaming history, nor do I care at this point.


    No worries. :)

  • natuxatunatuxatu Member UncommonPosts: 1,364
    Originally posted by swalker23

    Originally posted by natuxatu

    Originally posted by swalker23

    Originally posted by TheStarheart


    That's weird. It reminded me of FFXI. I wonder why that is...I wonder when FFXI released compared to VG.
    Oh and what company made FFXI? I just can't seem to remember.

     

    Funcom?



     

    A troll might guess that.

     

    Or someone being sarcastic just like the person asking the question is being sarcastic.



     

    You mean like I was being scarcastic to your sarcasm?

    I rather talk about sarcasm than the nonesense that is this topic :p

    image

  • GiggetGigget Member Posts: 129
    Originally posted by NeverLand7


    After seeing the gameplay videos, I can say, honestly, as a human being, honestly expressing myself, not lying to oneself, I will not play this game.



    I'm not going to judge the game, but It's not for me.



    Atleast I can still respect Square-Enix for releasing new titles such as Hikari no 4 Senshi: Final Fantasy Gaiden

     

    The underlined, bold sentence is rampant with contradiction, moreso than the whole post together.

  • beeker255beeker255 Member UncommonPosts: 351
    Originally posted by NeverLand7


    After seeing the gameplay videos, I can say, honestly, as a human being, honestly expressing myself, not lying to oneself, I will not play this game.



    I'm not going to judge the game, but It's not for me.



    Atleast I can still respect Square-Enix for releasing new titles such as Hikari no 4 Senshi: Final Fantasy Gaiden

    Your not going to judge the game....but you sure don't mind labeling it....

  • xersentxersent Member Posts: 613
    Originally posted by NeverLand7


    After seeing the gameplay videos, I can say, honestly, as a human being, honestly expressing myself, not lying to oneself, I will not play this game.



    I'm not going to judge the game, but It's not for me.



    Atleast I can still respect Square-Enix for releasing new titles such as Hikari no 4 Senshi: Final Fantasy Gaiden

     

    What are u talking aabout , u say your not going to judge the game , but you just have o.O

    image

  • KupoKupopoKupoKupopo Member Posts: 189

    The OP is like poop on steroids.

  • MuruganMurugan Member Posts: 1,494

    I can see it. as I played both for years choosing to end up in a real MMO after my time in FFXI rather than going to wow...

     

    FFXI

    - Beautiful artwork/graphics (for its PS2 limitations)

    - Focus on PVE group play and cooperation of classes

    - Coordinated COMPLEX teamplay (skill chains, class interdependency, character specialization through gear and job/subjob choices rather than "talent tree")

    - Good job System

    - Merit system

    - Complex crafting system

    - Probably best implementation of "quests" (as in missions) in any MMO

    -Good story/background

    - Probably 2nd most popular veteran MMO on the market

     

    Vanguard

    -Best graphics of any MMO to date, still. Great artwork originally designed by Keith Parkinson (subjective, but generally acknowledged as at least good)

    -Focus on PVE group play and cooperation of classes (less so than FFXI but obviously moreso than WoW)

    -Semi coordinated and complex teamplay (weakness/exploit system kind of similar to skill chains though not as fleshed out or as important unfortunately,  Defined roles, and challenging end game).

    - Many jobs as has been pointed out.  I think done well, for example healers are very fun to play with 4 distinct ways to heal (caster dps tap healing, melee proc/combo healing, classic cleric (Or whm if you want regen/buff/cure style healing), and hybrid/branching dps/caster/defensive type shaman healer with wards and hp to mana conversions)

    - I'd say a pretty good story/backround for the most part.  For my money better than EQ/EQ2/WoW.

    - Suffers from a 4 person dev team for the last year+, a disastorous launch caused by first Microsoft falling through as a publisher and then SoE neglecting it in favor of already existing EQ franchises.

    - Currently down to 3 servers, but at launch had more than FFXI did at the time (I was playing both).  While many quit because of bugs/performance issues PROVED that complex gameplay and challenge were still appealing to this market after WoW launched, first and only game to even attempt that in my opinion.

     

    WoW

    -Cartoon style graphics to ease performance on all system, excellent performance in my opinion crap artwork.

    -Silly story

    - Mixed PvE and PvP but as we all know that leads to balance around PvP which in my opinion lead to crap classes which do a little of everything, and nothing really unique except for the trivial.

    - Uncoordinated button/macro/3rd party program spam fest team/raid play.  No cooperative system such as skillchaining, and programs out there that basically play the game for you. FFXI had this too, but at least it was considered against the rules there.

    -  Highest population MMO to date, but mixed review from veteran MMO players.  Still the Ipod/facebook/myspace/pogs/New Wave/acid wash jeans of the MMO world so whatever, must be the second coming at least until 5 years from now when everyone will be embarassed to admit they played it.

     

     

    To a person who hasn't played FFXI or considers it to be from a different generation (as in part of the "original"/genre makers such as UO/EQ, SWG etc. pretty much everything before WoW" I can see the comparison.  To the modern MMO player they can both seem overly complicated, and in the end simply worthless because because "they don't have pvp".  Still a stretch for a comparison but I can see how this person, as part of this "new generation" (different values in terms of what makes an MMO worthwhile) of MMO players would make it in a negative sense.  I doubt he was talking about the bugs or lack of developer commitment that vanguard suffers from as this is Square Enix we are talking about.

     

    btw Vanguard has one pvp server with 100 people on it, was never the focus of that game.

  • GiddianGiddian Member UncommonPosts: 417

    Compairing a Good Game [Not a Great Game] to a total Crap Game?

    Final Fantasy not only was a good game, it hase a huge cult following, Vanguard on the other hand is a bug ridden piece of crap everquest 2 want to be, witch few people follow.

    I don't follow the thinking, but to each their own. I guess you must be a Vanguard Fan boy

    image

  • DillingerEPDillingerEP Member UncommonPosts: 365

    Yea this topic is full of fail. Then the fail in question took steroids, so it can be stronger at being fail. Then roid raged even more fail.

  • darksider27darksider27 Member Posts: 44

    Agreed, fail x10

    http://steamcommunity.com/id/darksider
    I don't use xfire anymore.
    I <3 Steam =D
    image

  • GorakkhGorakkh Member Posts: 694
    Originally posted by Murugan


     
    .  Still a stretch for a comparison but I can see how this person, as part of this "new generation" (different values in terms of what makes an MMO worthwhile) of MMO players would make it in a negative sense.  I doubt he was talking about the bugs or lack of developer commitment that vanguard suffers from as this is Square Enix we are talking about.
     



     



    Actually I am not part of the new generation. I grew up on  Ultima Online and Everquest, and moved on to games such as DAOC and FFXI.



    Yes I was not talking about It in a negative sense really, just that the game is not for me.



    Some may say It is too early to judge a game by It's gameplay video, but I've been gaming since I was 5 years old and It's like my soul aura either agrees with the gameplay video and would like to play the game or it does not, as weird as that sounds.

  • DameonkDameonk Member UncommonPosts: 1,914
    Originally posted by NeverLand7


    Some may say It is too early to judge a game by It's gameplay video, but I've been gaming since I was 5 years old and It's like my soul aura either agrees with the gameplay video and would like to play the game or it does not, as weird as that sounds.

     

    It's actually not weird at all.  But it's not your "soul aura" as you put it, it's just your subconscious mind making the decision for you.  The only thing you consciously do is justify the decision your subconscious has already made.

    That's why you decided to compare it to Vanguard, a game you obviously did not care for.

    Anyway, I think a lot of us would still like to know the reason behind your original statement.  How exactly do you think FFXIV is like Vanguard?

    "There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."

  • HavenAE2035HavenAE2035 Member Posts: 50
    Originally posted by popinjay


     

    Originally posted by Fkinglinux


    Originally posted by popinjay
     
     

     



    Originally posted by HavenAE2035




    Originally posted by Fkinglinux

     

    Its Vanguard on steroids, after steroids made vanguards balls wither and die, because it has no pvp.
     




     

     

    Excuse me, but I feel you are lost.  The "childish, mindless,  PvP is what makes an MMO an MMO" mindset forum is over there... You know, where all the whiney 12 and 13 year old are standing?  Some people call it Warhammer

    Who cares about PvP?  It's a pointless online pissing match that is ALWAYS unbalanced in favor of one class or another.  PvP is so played out and boring in nearly ever game it is present in that I could honestly care less if I ever kill another PC.

     






    Changed that. It's no longer the WOW fans who are running around saying that for the most part. Mostly everyone knows that's a PvE heavy game with PvP only recently getting a spike. Besides, Blizzard is releasing Cataclysm with a nice chunk of PvE stuff again because that's what most of the people do there anyways.

     

     

     

    I found it was the diehard WAR fans saying that above a lot. They live now whining in the AION forums because that game is going to take it's PvP lunch money. They cry constantly about "No PvP from Level 1" in AION and how that's going to be a dealbreaker for North America/Europe blah blah blah, lol.

    If you can imagine someone being as juvenile as that about not being able to spam two knife skills chasing a level 4 guy around in a zone to not sub a game, I can't think of one. Completely childish because "PvP pwns at Level 1!"






     

    Look, I don't mean to be rude, but I find it insulting that someone would take a FFA PvP game and compare it to a PvE game and say its the FFA PvP game on steroids.



    Didn't mean to "offend" you. But you know, you didn't actually make the game so why do you care about comparisions?

     

     

    I said nothing about steroids so if you have a beef, that's with someone else so that's better directed that way.

     

    My post is not regarding you. I don't know your gaming history, nor do I care at this point.



    No worries. :)



     

    I never worry about offending people who post offensive comments.  FFXIV is going to suck because it doesn't have PvP?  I myself find that offensive.  Furthermore I wasn't comparing FFXIV to a game with PvP, I believe you're thinking of our OP who compared FFXIV to Vanguard on Steroids.  On the contrary I was pointing out there is no comparison.

     

    Anyway, @ OP-  You didn't mean to be negative but you compared a new game that no one really knows much about to a game that has virtually failed to make the grade in the MMO business.  How can we NOT see that as negative?

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by HavenAE2035
    Originally posted by popinjay  

    Originally posted by Fkinglinux

    Originally posted by popinjay
     
     
     
    Originally posted by HavenAE2035
    Originally posted by Fkinglinux
     
    Its Vanguard on steroids, after steroids made vanguards balls wither and die, because it has no pvp.
     
     
     
    Excuse me, but I feel you are lost.  The "childish, mindless,  PvP is what makes an MMO an MMO" mindset forum is over there... You know, where all the whiney 12 and 13 year old are standing?  Some people call it Warhammer
    Who cares about PvP?  It's a pointless online pissing match that is ALWAYS unbalanced in favor of one class or another.  PvP is so played out and boring in nearly ever game it is present in that I could honestly care less if I ever kill another PC.
     




    Changed that. It's no longer the WOW fans who are running around saying that for the most part. Mostly everyone knows that's a PvE heavy game with PvP only recently getting a spike. Besides, Blizzard is releasing Cataclysm with a nice chunk of PvE stuff again because that's what most of the people do there anyways.
     
     
     
    I found it was the diehard WAR fans saying that above a lot. They live now whining in the AION forums because that game is going to take it's PvP lunch money. They cry constantly about "No PvP from Level 1" in AION and how that's going to be a dealbreaker for North America/Europe blah blah blah, lol.
    If you can imagine someone being as juvenile as that about not being able to spam two knife skills chasing a level 4 guy around in a zone to not sub a game, I can't think of one. Completely childish because "PvP pwns at Level 1!"




     
    Look, I don't mean to be rude, but I find it insulting that someone would take a FFA PvP game and compare it to a PvE game and say its the FFA PvP game on steroids.


    Didn't mean to "offend" you. But you know, you didn't actually make the game so why do you care about comparisions?
     
     
    I said nothing about steroids so if you have a beef, that's with someone else so that's better directed that way.
     
    My post is not regarding you. I don't know your gaming history, nor do I care at this point.

    No worries. :)


     
    I never worry about offending people who post offensive comments.  FFXIV is going to suck because it doesn't have PvP?  I myself find that offensive.  Furthermore I wasn't comparing FFXIV to a game with PvP, I believe you're thinking of our OP who compared FFXIV to Vanguard on Steroids.  On the contrary I was pointing out there is no comparison.
     
    Anyway, @ OP-  You didn't mean to be negative but you compared a new game that no one really knows much about to a game that has virtually failed to make the grade in the MMO business.  How can we NOT see that as negative?


    I think you should look at this quote tree more closely. There was no knock on you.


    I was saying from what I've seen, it's the WAR people, not the WoW people who seem mostly on the "PvP makes the MMO a MMO" type attitude and want to push that into other games like AION or this one.

    I find most WoW people I've run across seem to be more into the PvE aspect and don't expect PvP to take up huge parts of every game.


    Hope that clears it :)

  • SoulSurferSoulSurfer Member UncommonPosts: 1,024

    ;OP

    I was reading some article at the bookstore today, and from what I gathered from the veteran atrtist (sorry I forgot his name) but He designs the logo's and character/ artwork/ etc..  He says he imposses many styles from the beginiing of the FF series  but evolves them in a unique style.  And also, that style is influenced  by his love (get this believe it or not) of American Comics.

    It was a good read while I was on my lunch break... did anyone else see that article? (I think it was the playstation magazineI XD

  • KupoKupopoKupoKupopo Member Posts: 189
    Originally posted by HavenAE2035



    Anyway, @ OP-  You didn't mean to be negative but you compared a new game that no one really knows much about to a game that has virtually failed to make the grade in the MMO business.  How can we NOT see that as negative?

     

    And don't forget about the frown face at the end of the thread title... why would anyone think that meant something negative?

    : (

     

  • GorakkhGorakkh Member Posts: 694

    I meant that the gameplay videos looked to me, literally like Vanguard on steroids. I didn't mean It is going to be a failure like Vanguard or anything of that kind, but the videos turned me off a little.



    I'm sorry that when I posted positive threads on these boards before I saw the gameplay videos, they got less than half the replies or views.



    Man these boards just feed off negativity or something.

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 3,778

    The only thing I may not like from FFXIV is that there's no auto attack, it's an mmo not a single player I hate bashing buttons for a lot of time.


  • linrenlinren Member Posts: 578

    Only people that can draw a decent picture of what FFXIV will feel like is only FFXI veterans.  If someone never played to endgame of FFXi before, then they probably will not even have enough information to judge anything other than potential graphics since the game is still sort of alpha stage in that footage.

    I am not even sure if the OP have all the correct information either about auto-attack.

  • GorakkhGorakkh Member Posts: 694
    Originally posted by SoulSurfer


    ;OP
    I was reading some article at the bookstore today, and from what I gathered from the veteran atrtist (sorry I forgot his name) but He designs the logo's and character/ artwork/ etc..  He says he imposses many styles from the beginiing of the FF series  but evolves them in a unique style.  And also, that style is influenced  by his love (get this believe it or not) of American Comics.
    It was a good read while I was on my lunch break... did anyone else see that article? (I think it was the playstation magazineI XD



     

    You mean Yoshitaka Amano? His artwork is quite amazing.



    I'm pretty sure he didn't do a lot of the design for XIV. I know he designed the logo for XIV though.

  • linrenlinren Member Posts: 578
    Originally posted by NeverLand7

    Originally posted by Murugan


     
    .  Still a stretch for a comparison but I can see how this person, as part of this "new generation" (different values in terms of what makes an MMO worthwhile) of MMO players would make it in a negative sense.  I doubt he was talking about the bugs or lack of developer commitment that vanguard suffers from as this is Square Enix we are talking about.
     



     



    Actually I am not part of the new generation. I grew up on  Ultima Online and Everquest, and moved on to games such as DAOC and FFXI.



    Yes I was not talking about It in a negative sense really, just that the game is not for me.



    Some may say It is too early to judge a game by It's gameplay video, but I've been gaming since I was 5 years old and It's like my soul aura either agrees with the gameplay video and would like to play the game or it does not, as weird as that sounds.

     

    Again, past gaming experience does NOT make you able to predict the future gaming experience.   Said it once, and I'll say it as many times as it take.

  • GorakkhGorakkh Member Posts: 694
    Originally posted by linren

    Originally posted by NeverLand7

    Originally posted by Murugan


     
    .  Still a stretch for a comparison but I can see how this person, as part of this "new generation" (different values in terms of what makes an MMO worthwhile) of MMO players would make it in a negative sense.  I doubt he was talking about the bugs or lack of developer commitment that vanguard suffers from as this is Square Enix we are talking about.
     



     



    Actually I am not part of the new generation. I grew up on  Ultima Online and Everquest, and moved on to games such as DAOC and FFXI.



    Yes I was not talking about It in a negative sense really, just that the game is not for me.



    Some may say It is too early to judge a game by It's gameplay video, but I've been gaming since I was 5 years old and It's like my soul aura either agrees with the gameplay video and would like to play the game or it does not, as weird as that sounds.

     

    Again, past gaming experience does NOT make you able to predict the future gaming experience.   Said it once, and I'll say it as many times as it take.



     

    You must be mis-interpreting me. I'm not saying I'm predicting the future game experience for you guys, but for myself. If I see a gameplay video and my intuition does not agree with it, then like 99% of the time the game is not for me.

  • toddzetoddze Member UncommonPosts: 2,142

    If he is pre-wow mmo player he will play it when the game comes out. No true MMO player could neglect an old school game developer such as SE.

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • MustaphaMondMustaphaMond Member UncommonPosts: 341

    @OP... time and time again, you fail to give a specific thing that you see in the gameplay vids that bothers you.  A gut reaction is all good at first, but there must be something SPECIFIC that doesn't gel for you.

    You're like the person who sees a movie preview, has a "that looks crappy" reaction, but when asked why, you can't explain it.  If I see some crappy action flick preview, I almost always can say "that looks predictable" or "boring actors and/or plot."

    I asked you on page one, and others have continued to ask you what, SPECIFICALLY, reminds you of vanguard and puts you off about the gameplay video.

    Also, I want to know what gameplay videos you are watching.  Because, as I said before, if it's the ones from gamecon those who were playing were likely unfamiliar with the controls and you don't really get an accurate sense of how the game will work from that.

    ------------------

    Myself, I don't like how close the camera is zoomed up in the those videos and the fact that it doesn't look like the players were able to manipulate it that much.  Still, I've realize that could just be the players, not the game.  Still, if I were to object to the game based on the gameplay videos, that would be my specific reason as to what troubled me.

    "Just because..." <--- lazy.  If you are going to start a thread like this, you can't be lazy with your reasons.  As I'm sure you're aware (based on your avatar), SE fanbois and grrrls are some of the most rabid.  If you can't bring specifics and only point to intuition, it's just poking a hornet's nest for no reason. 

    Still, I think you need to wait until you've seen some videos where players actually know what they are doing.  If you have seen them, my apologies (and please give me the links).

  • GorakkhGorakkh Member Posts: 694
    Originally posted by MustaphaMond


    @OP... time and time again, you fail to give a specific thing that you see in the gameplay vids that bothers you.  A gut reaction is all good at first, but there must be something SPECIFIC that doesn't gel for you.


     

    Okay, if you feel that way so strongly I'll let you know.



    1. The game worlds graphics did not appeal to me



    2. The game worlds art style/graphics style was not appealing to me



    3. The environments looked uninspired in regards to my tastes



    4. The gameplay displayed in the videos looked uninteresting.



    5. One of the first things that popped into my head after watching the video, was It felt like Vanguard on steroids.



    But in all honesty, don't take it so personally, I'm sure it will still be a great quality game and offer unique and interesting ideas to the mmorpg genre.



    Just, I don't think It's going to be for me, sadly. And I can live with that, but you seem to be very shaken up by the aforesaid.

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