Not sure if this has been posted yet, but here you go. Looks promising.
No it doesn't, looks like earth and beyond with a star trek skin and to many normal maps.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Along with swtor this has the most potential out of ones we know about.
The only problem I'm having is deciding which one to play. It will most likely be determined by which one comes out first along with the neccessary specs.
Listening to the commentary makes me think they have no idea what a lot of Star Trek fans would really want in a mmo. Seems like they are mainly focusing on combat. I hope i'm wrong.
You're not wrong, they don't give a shit what Star Trek fans want. Like SWG and TOR, they'd rather have the mass market than the people that are fans of the IP. If the two groups intersect, that's just a happy (for them) coincidence.
Listening to the commentary makes me think they have no idea what a lot of Star Trek fans would really want in a mmo. Seems like they are mainly focusing on combat. I hope i'm wrong.
You're not wrong, they don't give a shit what Star Trek fans want. Like SWG and TOR, they'd rather have the mass market than the people that are fans of the IP. If the two groups intersect, that's just a happy (for them) coincidence.
In fairness to the people risking tens of millions of dollars developing the game do you blame them?
I don't know I always thought Star Trek had a huge fan base and there isn't really any videogame competition, but I guess if Holloywood would rather cater to general audiences with the most recent Star Trek film I guess cryptic wouldn't care with a big investment like an mmo either.
But more to the point did anyone ever play Star Trek 25th Anniversary? Now that is what the episode structure STO screams for, and that is probably the most true to Star Trek video game ever made, Combat was rarely the solution, but you could always fin a way to have your red shirt knocked off. Meh I figure it'd take to many resources to create good quests like that in abundance so we'll probably have to head out to collect 15 Andorian boar snouts.
"I will not play it nor any other MMO until they make it possible to obtain the best gear without forcing people to group up to do so." SwampRob
...did anyone ever play Star Trek 25th Anniversary? Now that is what the episode structure STO screams for, and that is probably the most true to Star Trek video game ever made, Combat was rarely the solution, but you could always fin a way to have your red shirt knocked off. Meh I figure it'd take to many resources to create good quests like that in abundance so we'll probably have to head out to collect 15 Andorian boar snouts.
I did and I agree. It would be nice to see the creators of this game focus on creating really good missions with logical objectives and several ways to acheive those objectives. But its an MMO and in todays game industry they only care about pumping out another quick cash cow so yeah, we will probably be collecting Andorian Boar snouts...
Along with swtor this has the most potential out of ones we know about.
Difference being, BIOWARE "gets" the Star Wars Universe. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me Cryptic understands the Star Trek paradigm at all.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Along with swtor this has the most potential out of ones we know about.
Difference being, BIOWARE "gets" the Star Wars Universe. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me Cryptic understands the Star Trek paradigm at all.
Based on the JJ's ST movie this year I am not sure Star Trek gets Star trek anymore, so not sure I would expect more from the game.
Along with swtor this has the most potential out of ones we know about.
Difference being, BIOWARE "gets" the Star Wars Universe. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me Cryptic understands the Star Trek paradigm at all.
Based on the JJ's ST movie this year I am not sure Star Trek gets Star trek anymore, so not sure I would expect more from the game.
You have a point there.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Along with swtor this has the most potential out of ones we know about.
Difference being, BIOWARE "gets" the Star Wars Universe. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me Cryptic understands the Star Trek paradigm at all.
First of all I mean no offense by this but there just isn't that much to "get" about the Star Wars universe. I love Star Wars just about as much as anyone else but it is just a Spaghetti Western shot in space and it has the depth of a spoon. Not that this is a bad thing mind you... for Star Wars this works and it works well. Bioware has a lot easier time catering to the SW fans as they are a pretty easy to please bunch.
Star Trek on the other hand is a completely different animal. The lore behind the ST universe is very rich, deep and it's a lot more cerebral than SW. This means that no matter what direction Cryptic takes this game it will no doubt piss a lot of people off. This has to be one of the most complex IPs anyone has tried to make games for and is why most ST games do so poorly. No matter what they decided to do with this IP they will alienate at least part of both the MMO and ST fan bases as there simply is no "right way" to make a Star Trek game.
Along with swtor this has the most potential out of ones we know about.
Difference being, BIOWARE "gets" the Star Wars Universe. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me Cryptic understands the Star Trek paradigm at all.
First of all I mean no offense by this but there just isn't that much to "get" about the Star Wars universe. I love Star Wars just about as much as anyone else but it is just a Spaghetti Western shot in space and it has the depth of a spoon. Not that this is a bad thing mind you... for Star Wars this works and it works well. Bioware has a lot easier time catering to the SW fans as they are a pretty easy to please bunch.
Star Trek on the other hand is a completely different animal. The lore behind the ST universe is very rich, deep and it's a lot more cerebral than SW. This means that no matter what direction Cryptic takes this game it will no doubt piss a lot of people off. This has to be one of the most complex IPs anyone has tried to make games for and is why most ST games do so poorly. No matter what they decided to do with this IP they will alienate at least part of both the MMO and ST fan bases as there simply is no "right way" to make a Star Trek game.
Bren
Good point. Star Trek fans are an impossible bunch to make happy as they have been whining about every movie since the first one came out in the late 70s along with every series since TNG. The best strategy for the developers is to keep making the game they are making and forget trying to please every trekkie because that is impossible to do.
Along with swtor this has the most potential out of ones we know about.
Difference being, BIOWARE "gets" the Star Wars Universe. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me Cryptic understands the Star Trek paradigm at all.
First of all I mean no offense by this but there just isn't that much to "get" about the Star Wars universe. I love Star Wars just about as much as anyone else but it is just a Spaghetti Western shot in space and it has the depth of a spoon. Not that this is a bad thing mind you... for Star Wars this works and it works well. Bioware has a lot easier time catering to the SW fans as they are a pretty easy to please bunch.
Star Trek on the other hand is a completely different animal. The lore behind the ST universe is very rich, deep and it's a lot more cerebral than SW. This means that no matter what direction Cryptic takes this game it will no doubt piss a lot of people off. This has to be one of the most complex IPs anyone has tried to make games for and is why most ST games do so poorly. No matter what they decided to do with this IP they will alienate at least part of both the MMO and ST fan bases as there simply is no "right way" to make a Star Trek game.
Bren
Good point. Star Trek fans are an impossible bunch to make happy as they have been whining about every movie since the first one came out in the late 70s along with every series since TNG. The best strategy for the developers is to keep making the game they are making and forget trying to please every trekkie because that is impossible to do.
How about pleasing the MMO fans who are tired of instances, broken mechanics and superficial, cookie-cutter games?
Good point. Star Trek fans are an impossible bunch to make happy as they have been whining about every movie since the first one came out in the late 70s along with every series since TNG. The best strategy for the developers is to keep making the game they are making and forget trying to please every trekkie because that is impossible to do.
How about pleasing the MMO fans who are tired of instances, broken mechanics and superficial, cookie-cutter games?
Instances don't bother me as long as the entire game isn't overdone with them. My pet peeves are lag,broken mechanics and fun.
Along with swtor this has the most potential out of ones we know about.
Difference being, BIOWARE "gets" the Star Wars Universe. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me Cryptic understands the Star Trek paradigm at all.
First of all I mean no offense by this but there just isn't that much to "get" about the Star Wars universe. I love Star Wars just about as much as anyone else but it is just a Spaghetti Western shot in space and it has the depth of a spoon. Not that this is a bad thing mind you... for Star Wars this works and it works well. Bioware has a lot easier time catering to the SW fans as they are a pretty easy to please bunch.
Star Trek on the other hand is a completely different animal. The lore behind the ST universe is very rich, deep and it's a lot more cerebral than SW. This means that no matter what direction Cryptic takes this game it will no doubt piss a lot of people off. This has to be one of the most complex IPs anyone has tried to make games for and is why most ST games do so poorly. No matter what they decided to do with this IP they will alienate at least part of both the MMO and ST fan bases as there simply is no "right way" to make a Star Trek game.
Bren
I'd say this is nothing but myth.
First, Roddenberry himself said he envisioned Star Trek as a kind of western in outer space. It's a space opera through and through. It feeds off of epics, fantasy, western and quite a few other action story genres. The genre a story belongs to does not in any way make it inferior.
And if you're telling stories, just coming up with fancy technology and future systems makes your story "cerebral" the wrong way. It just gives you a busy terminology. Yes, Star Trek does have ideas, but the the storylines and themes are not exactly Tolstoy stuff. Everything works on the surface and is mostly related through dialogue. It's a pretty superficial way of telling stories. Not to mention the handling of the themes are mostly naive. So I'd say it's way down the scale of "cerebral" science fiction - writers like Stanislav Lem or the contemporary Iain M. Banks do a much better job of it. Or even a mix-matcher like China Mieville.
Actually, Star Wars has more cerebral stuff in it even if by proxy. Lucas may not be a brilliant dialogue writer but he knows how to work those Jungian archetypes. This is why Star Wars lends itself way better to academic analysis.
And you know what the real irony is? The fact that the latest Star Trek movie not only does not get its own franchise, but also utterly fails in grasping the other franchise it wants to fashion itself after. Thus, Abrams' a downright Star Wars wannabe manages to be both shallow and out of ideas. You can't beat that!
I'm not a big fan of either, but at least Star Wars does a good job of being Star Wars!
As a final note: I think one can't say he likes Star Wars as much as anybody else and then go ahead and argue "there's not much to get"... That'd just mean that person is doing a poor job of liking it. There's a lot of depth to the Star Wars universe you can sink your teeth in, given that you're willing.
Along with swtor this has the most potential out of ones we know about.
Difference being, BIOWARE "gets" the Star Wars Universe. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me Cryptic understands the Star Trek paradigm at all.
First of all I mean no offense by this but there just isn't that much to "get" about the Star Wars universe. I love Star Wars just about as much as anyone else but it is just a Spaghetti Western shot in space and it has the depth of a spoon. Not that this is a bad thing mind you... for Star Wars this works and it works well. Bioware has a lot easier time catering to the SW fans as they are a pretty easy to please bunch.
Star Trek on the other hand is a completely different animal. The lore behind the ST universe is very rich, deep and it's a lot more cerebral than SW. This means that no matter what direction Cryptic takes this game it will no doubt piss a lot of people off. This has to be one of the most complex IPs anyone has tried to make games for and is why most ST games do so poorly. No matter what they decided to do with this IP they will alienate at least part of both the MMO and ST fan bases as there simply is no "right way" to make a Star Trek game.
Bren
I'd say this is nothing but myth.
First, Roddenberry himself said he envisioned Star Trek as a kind of western in outer space. It's a space opera through and through. It feeds off of epics, fantasy, western and quite a few other action story genres. The genre a story belongs to does not in any way make it inferior.
And if you're telling stories, just coming up with fancy technology and future systems makes your story "cerebral" the wrong way. It just gives you a busy terminology. Yes, Star Trek does have ideas, but the the storylines and themes are not exactly Tolstoy stuff. Everything works on the surface and is mostly related through dialogue. It's a pretty superficial way of telling stories. Not to mention the handling of the themes are mostly naive. So I'd say it's way down the scale of "cerebral" science fiction - writers like Stanislav Lem or the contemporary Iain M. Banks do a much better job of it. Or even a mix-matcher like China Mieville.
Actually, Star Wars has more cerebral stuff in it even if by proxy. Lucas may not be a brilliant dialogue writer but he knows how to work those Jungian archetypes. This is why Star Wars lends itself way better to academic analysis.
And you know what the real irony is? The fact that the latest Star Trek movie not only does not get its own franchise, but also utterly fails in grasping the other franchise it wants to fashion itself after. Thus, Abrams' a downright Star Wars wannabe manages to be both shallow and out of ideas. You can't beat that!
I'm not a big fan of either, but at least Star Wars does a good job of being Star Wars!
As a final note: I think one can't say he likes Star Wars as much as anybody else and then go ahead and argue "there's not much to get"... That'd just mean that person is doing a poor job of liking it. There's a lot of depth to the Star Wars universe you can sink your teeth in, given that you're willing.
Well I had a whole huge reply to this written out but decided to delete it as I don't want to turn this thread into a Star Wars vs. Star Trek debate. Lets just say that we are of differing opinions and leave it at that. As for your last comment a story (or universe) does not have to have depth to be enjoyable. I like Star Wars for what it is.
Originally posted by Brenelael First of all I mean no offense by this but there just isn't that much to "get" about the Star Wars universe. I love Star Wars just about as much as anyone else but it is just a Spaghetti Western shot in space and it has the depth of a spoon. Not that this is a bad thing mind you... for Star Wars this works and it works well. Bioware has a lot easier time catering to the SW fans as they are a pretty easy to please bunch.
Welcome to post JJ Star Trek - not to get to much in to the movie verse the game but ST is no SW, they even got funky high tech swords now.
Originally posted by Brenelael
Star Trek on the other hand is a completely different animal. The lore behind the ST universe is very rich, deep and it's a lot more cerebral than SW. This means that no matter what direction Cryptic takes this game it will no doubt piss a lot of people off. This has to be one of the most complex IPs anyone has tried to make games for and is why most ST games do so poorly. No matter what they decided to do with this IP they will alienate at least part of both the MMO and ST fan bases as there simply is no "right way" to make a Star Trek game.
All that lore, all but what exists from Enterprise, was effectively deleted by this years movie so ST is not the deep possible universe it once was. But yeah, the underlying challenge of a team making a ST game is to recreate the realistic nature of the ST universe as ST is no science fantasy it is true science fiction. Fantasy is far easier to code in a game than is realism (future or otherwise).
Originally posted by Brenelael First of all I mean no offense by this but there just isn't that much to "get" about the Star Wars universe. I love Star Wars just about as much as anyone else but it is just a Spaghetti Western shot in space and it has the depth of a spoon. Not that this is a bad thing mind you... for Star Wars this works and it works well. Bioware has a lot easier time catering to the SW fans as they are a pretty easy to please bunch.
Welcome to post JJ Star Trek - not to get to much in to the movie verse the game but ST is no SW, they even got funky high tech swords now.
Originally posted by Brenelael
Star Trek on the other hand is a completely different animal. The lore behind the ST universe is very rich, deep and it's a lot more cerebral than SW. This means that no matter what direction Cryptic takes this game it will no doubt piss a lot of people off. This has to be one of the most complex IPs anyone has tried to make games for and is why most ST games do so poorly. No matter what they decided to do with this IP they will alienate at least part of both the MMO and ST fan bases as there simply is no "right way" to make a Star Trek game.
All that lore, all but what exists from Enterprise, was effectively deleted by this years movie so ST is not the deep possible universe it once was. But yeah, the underlying challenge of a team making a ST game is to recreate the realistic nature of the ST universe as ST is no science fantasy it is true science fiction. Fantasy is far easier to code in a game than is realism (future or otherwise).
Well the game takes place in the prime time line and not the alternate one set up by the movie so it can still draw on all of the original lore. The only part of the movie that is in this game is the destruction of Romulus and the disappearance of Spock that sets up the new movie but nothing else affects the game as it all happens in an alternate reality. Vulcan is still there and George Kirk was never killed by Nero in this time line so all of the lore and stories we all grew up on are still there in STO. The movie will have very little effect on this game at all lore wise.
First, no need for inflammatory language. That sort of stuff makes forum discussions like these devolve into sources of embarrassment.
Myself, I was primarily talking about the original series. I'm not exactly a fan of it (or Star Wars, for that matter). Not in terms of storytelling anyway. To me, the really compelling thing about Star Trek is that it does have some big ideas and (from a purely subjective point of view) that its heart is in the right place.
The thing is, seeing the new movie makes me doubt people are on the same wavelength as I am when it comes to what used to be good about Star Trek in the first place. Is the shift of emphasis isolated to the new movie, or will we see more of it - e.g., will Cryptic focus on the basic merits of Star Trek?
Thanks to my admittedly low expectations, I was pleasantly surprised with what the gameplay videos have shown us. I like the overall visual design, and I *really* like that space station! Hey, I even like the away mission footage.
On the other hand, I can't help but wonder whether Cryptic is going to give exploration the attention it deserves. I myself have never seen Star Trek as a series of combat-based missions or an amalgam of technological designs. By that perspective, hearing that you'd reach the end of "Earth Space" when you try to go from Earth to Saturn on impulse was somewhat disheartening.
Still, if the game somehow manages to give the player that "thrill of exploration" the series argues it's built upon, great!
Yes, we all want more than combat - diplomacy, exploration, negotiation, politics. etc.. But I think the reality of computer programming limits the DEVs whatever their disposition to those sorts of things are, combat is the only thing that can me gameplay simulated though I would expect at least superficial treatment for the other things in the way of side elements and perhaps mini games though it may only end up in as quest dialogue.
First, no need for inflammatory language. That sort of stuff makes forum discussions like these devolve into sources of embarrassment. Myself, I was primarily talking about the original series. I'm not exactly a fan of it (or Star Wars, for that matter). Not in terms of storytelling anyway. To me, the really compelling thing about Star Trek is that it does have some big ideas and (from a purely subjective point of view) that its heart is in the right place. The thing is, seeing the new movie makes me doubt people are on the same wavelength as I am when it comes to what used to be good about Star Trek in the first place. Is the shift of emphasis isolated to the new movie, or will we see more of it - e.g., will Cryptic focus on the basic merits of Star Trek? Thanks to my admittedly low expectations, I was pleasantly surprised with what the gameplay videos have shown us. I like the overall visual design, and I *really* like that space station! Hey, I even like the away mission footage. On the other hand, I can't help but wonder whether Cryptic is going to give exploration the attention it deserves. I myself have never seen Star Trek as a series of combat-based missions or an amalgam of technological designs. By that perspective, hearing that you'd reach the end of "Earth Space" when you try to go from Earth to Saturn on impulse was somewhat disheartening. Still, if the game somehow manages to give the player that "thrill of exploration" the series argues it's built upon, great!
Because the game takes place in the 'prime' time line and not in the alternate reality that the movie sets up I would say that you won't be disappointed in STO but as AgtSmith has pointed out some of the things that make Star Trek great will be very hard to turn into actual game play mechanics so we'll have to wait to see what Cryptic comes up with in the regard. As for exploration Cryptic has said it will be a big part of the game and they have even invented a new dynamic content generator they call 'Genesis' to handle this aspect of the game. They did it this way so that there will always be something new to discover even after the game is 5+ years old. I think this is wonderful but ultimately we will have to see this new system in action to really judge it.
I also think that if Episodes(Quests) give EXP there is no reason you can't level your skills from non combat missions. This could all be handled through dialog and some actions (Like using your repair skill to fix a broken comm array) and you would get experience based on what skills you used to complete the mission. There is no reason you can't have non combat advancement in a skill based game.
I have to side with the comments of Mykell earlier in the thread.
I am a HUGE Star Trek fan and I am having a very hard time getting excited about this game. The game just seems to have no identity and seems very simplistic/shallow so far. Things like no 3-d flight in space really hurt this game IMO.
Gameplay vids I have seen seem ok, not great but ok. The space vids look much better then the character screenshots I have seen. They look....bad for this gen of MMO. That being said, I can overlook marginal graphics for awesome gameplay.
I will definately keep an eye on this though and I hope as more details come out it will get closer to what most of us would like to see in an STMMO.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Yes, we all want more than combat - diplomacy, exploration, negotiation, politics. etc.. But I think the reality of computer programming limits the DEVs whatever their disposition to those sorts of things are, combat is the only thing that can me gameplay simulated though I would expect at least superficial treatment for the other things in the way of side elements and perhaps mini games though it may only end up in as quest dialogue.
The reality does indeed limit the ability to incorporate key aspects of the IP into the game. Which is why the game shouldn't be made at all. Rather, make a decent MMO space combat game and leave Trek out of it entirely.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Yes, we all want more than combat - diplomacy, exploration, negotiation, politics. etc.. But I think the reality of computer programming limits the DEVs whatever their disposition to those sorts of things are, combat is the only thing that can me gameplay simulated though I would expect at least superficial treatment for the other things in the way of side elements and perhaps mini games though it may only end up in as quest dialogue.
The reality does indeed limit the ability to incorporate key aspects of the IP into the game. Which is why the game shouldn't be made at all. Rather, make a decent MMO space combat game and leave Trek out of it entirely.
I have a better idea. How about you just decide not to play and pretend that it never happened? I can think of quite a few Trek games that weren't exactly great but that doesn't mean they should never have been made just because I didn't find them attractive. On the other hand, I enjoyed games like Armada, Starfleet Command and BOTF and I'm sure there were many folks who didn't like them.Whether you like it or not, this game is going to be made. Accept it.
Comments
No it doesn't, looks like earth and beyond with a star trek skin and to many normal maps.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
The only problem I'm having is deciding which one to play. It will most likely be determined by which one comes out first along with the neccessary specs.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
You're not wrong, they don't give a shit what Star Trek fans want. Like SWG and TOR, they'd rather have the mass market than the people that are fans of the IP. If the two groups intersect, that's just a happy (for them) coincidence.
You're not wrong, they don't give a shit what Star Trek fans want. Like SWG and TOR, they'd rather have the mass market than the people that are fans of the IP. If the two groups intersect, that's just a happy (for them) coincidence.
In fairness to the people risking tens of millions of dollars developing the game do you blame them?
--------------------------------
Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
I don't know I always thought Star Trek had a huge fan base and there isn't really any videogame competition, but I guess if Holloywood would rather cater to general audiences with the most recent Star Trek film I guess cryptic wouldn't care with a big investment like an mmo either.
But more to the point did anyone ever play Star Trek 25th Anniversary? Now that is what the episode structure STO screams for, and that is probably the most true to Star Trek video game ever made, Combat was rarely the solution, but you could always fin a way to have your red shirt knocked off. Meh I figure it'd take to many resources to create good quests like that in abundance so we'll probably have to head out to collect 15 Andorian boar snouts.
"I will not play it nor any other MMO until they make it possible to obtain the best gear without forcing people to group up to do so." SwampRob
I did and I agree. It would be nice to see the creators of this game focus on creating really good missions with logical objectives and several ways to acheive those objectives. But its an MMO and in todays game industry they only care about pumping out another quick cash cow so yeah, we will probably be collecting Andorian Boar snouts...
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
Difference being, BIOWARE "gets" the Star Wars Universe. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me Cryptic understands the Star Trek paradigm at all.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Difference being, BIOWARE "gets" the Star Wars Universe. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me Cryptic understands the Star Trek paradigm at all.
Based on the JJ's ST movie this year I am not sure Star Trek gets Star trek anymore, so not sure I would expect more from the game.
--------------------------------
Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
Difference being, BIOWARE "gets" the Star Wars Universe. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me Cryptic understands the Star Trek paradigm at all.
Based on the JJ's ST movie this year I am not sure Star Trek gets Star trek anymore, so not sure I would expect more from the game.
You have a point there.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Difference being, BIOWARE "gets" the Star Wars Universe. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me Cryptic understands the Star Trek paradigm at all.
First of all I mean no offense by this but there just isn't that much to "get" about the Star Wars universe. I love Star Wars just about as much as anyone else but it is just a Spaghetti Western shot in space and it has the depth of a spoon. Not that this is a bad thing mind you... for Star Wars this works and it works well. Bioware has a lot easier time catering to the SW fans as they are a pretty easy to please bunch.
Star Trek on the other hand is a completely different animal. The lore behind the ST universe is very rich, deep and it's a lot more cerebral than SW. This means that no matter what direction Cryptic takes this game it will no doubt piss a lot of people off. This has to be one of the most complex IPs anyone has tried to make games for and is why most ST games do so poorly. No matter what they decided to do with this IP they will alienate at least part of both the MMO and ST fan bases as there simply is no "right way" to make a Star Trek game.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Difference being, BIOWARE "gets" the Star Wars Universe. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me Cryptic understands the Star Trek paradigm at all.
First of all I mean no offense by this but there just isn't that much to "get" about the Star Wars universe. I love Star Wars just about as much as anyone else but it is just a Spaghetti Western shot in space and it has the depth of a spoon. Not that this is a bad thing mind you... for Star Wars this works and it works well. Bioware has a lot easier time catering to the SW fans as they are a pretty easy to please bunch.
Star Trek on the other hand is a completely different animal. The lore behind the ST universe is very rich, deep and it's a lot more cerebral than SW. This means that no matter what direction Cryptic takes this game it will no doubt piss a lot of people off. This has to be one of the most complex IPs anyone has tried to make games for and is why most ST games do so poorly. No matter what they decided to do with this IP they will alienate at least part of both the MMO and ST fan bases as there simply is no "right way" to make a Star Trek game.
Bren
Good point. Star Trek fans are an impossible bunch to make happy as they have been whining about every movie since the first one came out in the late 70s along with every series since TNG. The best strategy for the developers is to keep making the game they are making and forget trying to please every trekkie because that is impossible to do.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Difference being, BIOWARE "gets" the Star Wars Universe. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me Cryptic understands the Star Trek paradigm at all.
First of all I mean no offense by this but there just isn't that much to "get" about the Star Wars universe. I love Star Wars just about as much as anyone else but it is just a Spaghetti Western shot in space and it has the depth of a spoon. Not that this is a bad thing mind you... for Star Wars this works and it works well. Bioware has a lot easier time catering to the SW fans as they are a pretty easy to please bunch.
Star Trek on the other hand is a completely different animal. The lore behind the ST universe is very rich, deep and it's a lot more cerebral than SW. This means that no matter what direction Cryptic takes this game it will no doubt piss a lot of people off. This has to be one of the most complex IPs anyone has tried to make games for and is why most ST games do so poorly. No matter what they decided to do with this IP they will alienate at least part of both the MMO and ST fan bases as there simply is no "right way" to make a Star Trek game.
Bren
Good point. Star Trek fans are an impossible bunch to make happy as they have been whining about every movie since the first one came out in the late 70s along with every series since TNG. The best strategy for the developers is to keep making the game they are making and forget trying to please every trekkie because that is impossible to do.
How about pleasing the MMO fans who are tired of instances, broken mechanics and superficial, cookie-cutter games?
____________________________
CASUAL CONFESSIONS - Draccan's blog
____________________________
How about pleasing the MMO fans who are tired of instances, broken mechanics and superficial, cookie-cutter games?
Instances don't bother me as long as the entire game isn't overdone with them. My pet peeves are lag,broken mechanics and fun.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Difference being, BIOWARE "gets" the Star Wars Universe. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me Cryptic understands the Star Trek paradigm at all.
First of all I mean no offense by this but there just isn't that much to "get" about the Star Wars universe. I love Star Wars just about as much as anyone else but it is just a Spaghetti Western shot in space and it has the depth of a spoon. Not that this is a bad thing mind you... for Star Wars this works and it works well. Bioware has a lot easier time catering to the SW fans as they are a pretty easy to please bunch.
Star Trek on the other hand is a completely different animal. The lore behind the ST universe is very rich, deep and it's a lot more cerebral than SW. This means that no matter what direction Cryptic takes this game it will no doubt piss a lot of people off. This has to be one of the most complex IPs anyone has tried to make games for and is why most ST games do so poorly. No matter what they decided to do with this IP they will alienate at least part of both the MMO and ST fan bases as there simply is no "right way" to make a Star Trek game.
Bren
I'd say this is nothing but myth.
First, Roddenberry himself said he envisioned Star Trek as a kind of western in outer space. It's a space opera through and through. It feeds off of epics, fantasy, western and quite a few other action story genres. The genre a story belongs to does not in any way make it inferior.
And if you're telling stories, just coming up with fancy technology and future systems makes your story "cerebral" the wrong way. It just gives you a busy terminology. Yes, Star Trek does have ideas, but the the storylines and themes are not exactly Tolstoy stuff. Everything works on the surface and is mostly related through dialogue. It's a pretty superficial way of telling stories. Not to mention the handling of the themes are mostly naive. So I'd say it's way down the scale of "cerebral" science fiction - writers like Stanislav Lem or the contemporary Iain M. Banks do a much better job of it. Or even a mix-matcher like China Mieville.
Actually, Star Wars has more cerebral stuff in it even if by proxy. Lucas may not be a brilliant dialogue writer but he knows how to work those Jungian archetypes. This is why Star Wars lends itself way better to academic analysis.
And you know what the real irony is? The fact that the latest Star Trek movie not only does not get its own franchise, but also utterly fails in grasping the other franchise it wants to fashion itself after. Thus, Abrams' a downright Star Wars wannabe manages to be both shallow and out of ideas. You can't beat that!
I'm not a big fan of either, but at least Star Wars does a good job of being Star Wars!
As a final note: I think one can't say he likes Star Wars as much as anybody else and then go ahead and argue "there's not much to get"... That'd just mean that person is doing a poor job of liking it. There's a lot of depth to the Star Wars universe you can sink your teeth in, given that you're willing.
Difference being, BIOWARE "gets" the Star Wars Universe. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me Cryptic understands the Star Trek paradigm at all.
First of all I mean no offense by this but there just isn't that much to "get" about the Star Wars universe. I love Star Wars just about as much as anyone else but it is just a Spaghetti Western shot in space and it has the depth of a spoon. Not that this is a bad thing mind you... for Star Wars this works and it works well. Bioware has a lot easier time catering to the SW fans as they are a pretty easy to please bunch.
Star Trek on the other hand is a completely different animal. The lore behind the ST universe is very rich, deep and it's a lot more cerebral than SW. This means that no matter what direction Cryptic takes this game it will no doubt piss a lot of people off. This has to be one of the most complex IPs anyone has tried to make games for and is why most ST games do so poorly. No matter what they decided to do with this IP they will alienate at least part of both the MMO and ST fan bases as there simply is no "right way" to make a Star Trek game.
Bren
I'd say this is nothing but myth.
First, Roddenberry himself said he envisioned Star Trek as a kind of western in outer space. It's a space opera through and through. It feeds off of epics, fantasy, western and quite a few other action story genres. The genre a story belongs to does not in any way make it inferior.
And if you're telling stories, just coming up with fancy technology and future systems makes your story "cerebral" the wrong way. It just gives you a busy terminology. Yes, Star Trek does have ideas, but the the storylines and themes are not exactly Tolstoy stuff. Everything works on the surface and is mostly related through dialogue. It's a pretty superficial way of telling stories. Not to mention the handling of the themes are mostly naive. So I'd say it's way down the scale of "cerebral" science fiction - writers like Stanislav Lem or the contemporary Iain M. Banks do a much better job of it. Or even a mix-matcher like China Mieville.
Actually, Star Wars has more cerebral stuff in it even if by proxy. Lucas may not be a brilliant dialogue writer but he knows how to work those Jungian archetypes. This is why Star Wars lends itself way better to academic analysis.
And you know what the real irony is? The fact that the latest Star Trek movie not only does not get its own franchise, but also utterly fails in grasping the other franchise it wants to fashion itself after. Thus, Abrams' a downright Star Wars wannabe manages to be both shallow and out of ideas. You can't beat that!
I'm not a big fan of either, but at least Star Wars does a good job of being Star Wars!
As a final note: I think one can't say he likes Star Wars as much as anybody else and then go ahead and argue "there's not much to get"... That'd just mean that person is doing a poor job of liking it. There's a lot of depth to the Star Wars universe you can sink your teeth in, given that you're willing.
Well I had a whole huge reply to this written out but decided to delete it as I don't want to turn this thread into a Star Wars vs. Star Trek debate. Lets just say that we are of differing opinions and leave it at that. As for your last comment a story (or universe) does not have to have depth to be enjoyable. I like Star Wars for what it is.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Welcome to post JJ Star Trek - not to get to much in to the movie verse the game but ST is no SW, they even got funky high tech swords now.
All that lore, all but what exists from Enterprise, was effectively deleted by this years movie so ST is not the deep possible universe it once was. But yeah, the underlying challenge of a team making a ST game is to recreate the realistic nature of the ST universe as ST is no science fantasy it is true science fiction. Fantasy is far easier to code in a game than is realism (future or otherwise).
--------------------------------
Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
Welcome to post JJ Star Trek - not to get to much in to the movie verse the game but ST is no SW, they even got funky high tech swords now.
All that lore, all but what exists from Enterprise, was effectively deleted by this years movie so ST is not the deep possible universe it once was. But yeah, the underlying challenge of a team making a ST game is to recreate the realistic nature of the ST universe as ST is no science fantasy it is true science fiction. Fantasy is far easier to code in a game than is realism (future or otherwise).
Well the game takes place in the prime time line and not the alternate one set up by the movie so it can still draw on all of the original lore. The only part of the movie that is in this game is the destruction of Romulus and the disappearance of Spock that sets up the new movie but nothing else affects the game as it all happens in an alternate reality. Vulcan is still there and George Kirk was never killed by Nero in this time line so all of the lore and stories we all grew up on are still there in STO. The movie will have very little effect on this game at all lore wise.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
There's already a movie thread available. Please deposit all nerd rage pertaining to the movie there. Thanks.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
LOL... I already defused the situation but thanks for the assist all the same.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
First, no need for inflammatory language. That sort of stuff makes forum discussions like these devolve into sources of embarrassment.
Myself, I was primarily talking about the original series. I'm not exactly a fan of it (or Star Wars, for that matter). Not in terms of storytelling anyway. To me, the really compelling thing about Star Trek is that it does have some big ideas and (from a purely subjective point of view) that its heart is in the right place.
The thing is, seeing the new movie makes me doubt people are on the same wavelength as I am when it comes to what used to be good about Star Trek in the first place. Is the shift of emphasis isolated to the new movie, or will we see more of it - e.g., will Cryptic focus on the basic merits of Star Trek?
Thanks to my admittedly low expectations, I was pleasantly surprised with what the gameplay videos have shown us. I like the overall visual design, and I *really* like that space station! Hey, I even like the away mission footage.
On the other hand, I can't help but wonder whether Cryptic is going to give exploration the attention it deserves. I myself have never seen Star Trek as a series of combat-based missions or an amalgam of technological designs. By that perspective, hearing that you'd reach the end of "Earth Space" when you try to go from Earth to Saturn on impulse was somewhat disheartening.
Still, if the game somehow manages to give the player that "thrill of exploration" the series argues it's built upon, great!
Yes, we all want more than combat - diplomacy, exploration, negotiation, politics. etc.. But I think the reality of computer programming limits the DEVs whatever their disposition to those sorts of things are, combat is the only thing that can me gameplay simulated though I would expect at least superficial treatment for the other things in the way of side elements and perhaps mini games though it may only end up in as quest dialogue.
--------------------------------
Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
Because the game takes place in the 'prime' time line and not in the alternate reality that the movie sets up I would say that you won't be disappointed in STO but as AgtSmith has pointed out some of the things that make Star Trek great will be very hard to turn into actual game play mechanics so we'll have to wait to see what Cryptic comes up with in the regard. As for exploration Cryptic has said it will be a big part of the game and they have even invented a new dynamic content generator they call 'Genesis' to handle this aspect of the game. They did it this way so that there will always be something new to discover even after the game is 5+ years old. I think this is wonderful but ultimately we will have to see this new system in action to really judge it.
I also think that if Episodes(Quests) give EXP there is no reason you can't level your skills from non combat missions. This could all be handled through dialog and some actions (Like using your repair skill to fix a broken comm array) and you would get experience based on what skills you used to complete the mission. There is no reason you can't have non combat advancement in a skill based game.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
I have to side with the comments of Mykell earlier in the thread.
I am a HUGE Star Trek fan and I am having a very hard time getting excited about this game. The game just seems to have no identity and seems very simplistic/shallow so far. Things like no 3-d flight in space really hurt this game IMO.
Gameplay vids I have seen seem ok, not great but ok. The space vids look much better then the character screenshots I have seen. They look....bad for this gen of MMO. That being said, I can overlook marginal graphics for awesome gameplay.
I will definately keep an eye on this though and I hope as more details come out it will get closer to what most of us would like to see in an STMMO.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
The reality does indeed limit the ability to incorporate key aspects of the IP into the game. Which is why the game shouldn't be made at all. Rather, make a decent MMO space combat game and leave Trek out of it entirely.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The reality does indeed limit the ability to incorporate key aspects of the IP into the game. Which is why the game shouldn't be made at all. Rather, make a decent MMO space combat game and leave Trek out of it entirely.
I have a better idea. How about you just decide not to play and pretend that it never happened? I can think of quite a few Trek games that weren't exactly great but that doesn't mean they should never have been made just because I didn't find them attractive. On the other hand, I enjoyed games like Armada, Starfleet Command and BOTF and I'm sure there were many folks who didn't like them.Whether you like it or not, this game is going to be made. Accept it.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft