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The "Ultimate MMO" Cookbook #1
Greater_Force
Member Posts: 28
Preface: Many of us play or have played many MMOs. I think I'm a little less addicted than most to the fun of MMOs but I have been playing for over a decade and my tastes have changed over the years. To start off I was completely content playing the mainstream western MMOs. They were fun and new and I got to do things I had never done before, but it seems like now I just can't find one that seems complete. They all have things I like but they are so redundant that I can't play them for more than a few months before I realize it's just missing something, or there are things about the game that I want to change. I'd like to get a feature set for the "Ultimate MMO" and maybe some devs will take a gander and make a game for us 
(NOTE: please be polite when responding as this is completely opinion based, and diversity is welcome as long as it is appropriate)
I'm starting this thread to get ideas on what you would love to see in a new MMO. What would the game need to have to get you as a sub? What would really get you excited about playing every day? What features might it need to really draw you into the experience?
IMHO: I will not play a game that does not offer enough customization in appearance. I want to recognize myself when I'm in town with a bunch of other PCs. So the game must have at least enough variety in race, size, clothing, and gender so that I never once see a player that looks exactly like me. Games using default clothing for new players are the only exception since everyone kind of looks a little alike when first starting.
I don't want to give all my ideas now so tell me what you think and I'll give you more of mine later.
-Greater Force
Comments
Remembering that everything is subject to opinion, I'll put in my two cents.
1. Risk. There must be sufficient risk in combat/economy/whatever in a game to make it fun. If I have nothing to lose in a battle, it's that much less reason to try to win. If you lose something from losing the battle, you are more determined to win. It gets the adrenaline going in big battles and I love it.
Do you mean losing exp or losing items? It's always more exciting to PvP if you know they can loot you after. But there has to be a line somewhere because I hate losing items I quested for and there is no way to do the quest again to get it back.
-Greater Force
For me, and important aspect in an online rpg has always been realism. I don't mean realism in the sense that it needs to look realistic, just that I like to have access to the things that make the game feel more like an actual world, or more fleshed out. Such as player housing, player driven economies, trade skills that actually enable you to create a diverse range of items and not just the typical armor, weapons, potions, etc.
I guess the closest comparison I can think of to that kind of realism would be the system that Ultima Online uses. I've never played a game that felt nearly as "complete" as far as overall freedom goes. I mean, being able to become a mapmaker and put together treasure hunts for others, or becoming a carpenter to make furniture for the new couples moving in to the village close by are great examples of the kind of freedom that I'm talking about. It just makes the game feel so much more alive.
The only problem I ever really had with UO is the fact that it's 2D, and I've was initially spoiled with games like EQ back in the day. It just always seemed like such a downgrade for me.
I've got many other opinions on what I think the "Ultimate MMO" needs, but I'll hold off for now until other people post their own views.
Do you think players having to eat, drink, sleep, age, and die are too real for a mmo? Or maybe too complex?
-Greater Force
I'll continue this trend of 1 major feature per post and say out of all the things I have seen recently, 1 thing still stands out the most to me. I'm not entirely sure how possible it will be in a world with housing etc. things like that, but I find this very important. Placing all the players onto a single universe like EVE Online has done. Obviously, I would like to see this done without everyone stepping on each others feet and definitely would like to see this within a fantasy setting on a world (or set of worlds) rather than just outer space. If anything would be on my wish list, that'll be #1.
For me to subscribe for an MMO for longer than one month, there must be few features included:
A) The game must not feel like something I've played before (only briefly, and if it's a sequel to a game I liked before it's acceptable). This is why I don't play most of the games out there nowadays; they're too similar, especially when it comes to combat and graphics.
C) There must be a clear direction for me to take. I hate open worlds and like linear storytelling.. so the game should have story as well, which unfortunately new MMO's often lack.
D) Animation of the characters and NPC's must be top quality. If the characters skip frames or there are other lazy glitches, I find myself be irritated more often than not.
E) The game must be designed in a way that a casual player needs to play it for years to get to the end of the journey (in other words, to the level cap). Instant gratification isn't my thing, and I don't like switching MMO's every few months.
All the rest of the features the game might have I don't care about, really.
I'm not sure this is a deal killer for me but I would love to see it. I can't stand node gathering. It kills realism and it's annoying to have to chop down a hundred little trees just to get a chair. I'd like to be able to chop down the real trees (maybe in designated areas or buy a permit to cut them down) and make a whole bunch of furniture from just one big tree. Same goes for other resources. It would be amazing to gather them from what looks like game scenery. You go inside a cave to mine, grow plants in a garden, use bones from large animals you kill or find dead, and so on.
-Greater Force
The one feature I would want most in an MMO is a wide open, completely immersive, non-linear world.
I want a dozen races, each with their own distinct flavors, customs, and restrictions. I want hundred of competing factions interwoven in a complicated manner.
I don't want my hand held from one tier to the next. I don't want to be directed from one quest hub to the next
I don't want to be bounded in by zone lines or invisible walls
I don't want the requirement of "if you are x level you should be in y zone. I want a nice long list of possible locations, based upon race, faction, player skill, and wether or not I have a group.
I want ALL of my choices to be meaninful. If I kill a city guard I take a faction hit. Once I make a skill choice, it is permanent. If I choose to play an evil race / class, it is going to take me a but load of work to be accepted in a good city, and may very well destroy my faction somewhere else in the process.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Well, quite a few of the older games still require you to eat and drink, even to this day (Everquest is the first game that comes to mind), but personally, It's not really a deal breaker for me. I'm fine with it either way, although if I had a choice, I guess I'd go with a food-is-necessary model just for the sake of realism. And heck, it'd give you more opportunity for socializing (ie. going to taverns after a day of adventuring to grab a bite with friends, or even cook the meat of what you killed that day.)
As for the sleeping and aging thing, I could definitely (and preferrably) go without those options. Sleeping would be alright I suppose as long as it wasn't something that you needed to do often, but the aging and dying thing... no way. One of the major highlights of these online games, for me at least, is the feeling of being invulnerable in a sense. No matter how many times you die, you can always come back. Of course, I understand that it goes completely against realism, but that's definitely a welcomed exception.
Do you mean losing exp or losing items? It's always more exciting to PvP if you know they can loot you after. But there has to be a line somewhere because I hate losing items I quested for and there is no way to do the quest again to get it back.
Risk is key, i totally agree. There needs to be a reason and a risk associated with the pvp. PvP can be very entertaining, but so much more so when something is on the line besides having to respawn at your home base. I also agree that losing items you have worked very hard to attain can actually discourage pvp. I think there can definitely be a balance that rewards pvp wins, but also doesnt discourage players from wanting to be a part of it.
Basically, someone needs to recreate UO with 3D graphics. Or even exceptionally well done 2D could work. In my opinion, UO got it all right. The closer a game is to that feel, the more likely I will play it.
Agreed.
It's ironic, and somewhat sad, that this genre reached it's pinnacle with one of the earliest games released. UO had something for every type of player, and it excelled at all of them.
All the games since have not only been pale imitations, but only partial imitations at that.
No need to reinvent the wheel at all, just put some shiny 3d rims on it.
3 factions DAoC style. PLEAASSEE!!!
I agree 100% with the Risk Factor, I know a lot of people say they hate it but exp debt keeps terrible players from reaching level cap. It sounds harsh but if you suck to bad I don't think you should be able to reach level cap.
EQ vs WoW :
In EQ you had to know your class, if you didn't everyone knew you didn't and no one would group with you. They wouldn't group with you because if you didn't do your job you'd cost them exp. If you saw someone running with a person who was known to get groups killed you'd send a friendly warning. Long story short if you're terrible you'd never reach level cap.
In WoW you only have to repair items. So no matter how terrible you are at your role in WoW you can still get to level cap and still get raid spots even if you know nothing at all about your class. Ever see a hunter in a complete tier set in WoW who refused to use ranged attacks? I have.
Risk can equal better quality of player all round. I prefer exp debt to loss of actual items though.
Factions that actually effect where you can and can't go are nice to if the faction grind is well thought out. No one like to have to do the same quest 500 times.
Something that has always bothered me with every MMO is static NPCs. I don't like to see the same NPCs standing in the same spot forever. I know it assures that people with a quest requiring a particular NPC will be able to find that NPC, but it would be nice if the NPCs did something besides just standing there waiting for players to show up.
I imagine it being something like a small set of goals for each NPC that has them moving within a certain area. That way they are not too hard to find if you know the area they roam and it at least makes them seem a little more alive. I'd even like to see it go as far as them sleeping at night and leaving an assistant or replacement NPC to handle quest goers. NPCs should be as "alive" as possible.
-Greater Force
I've always wanted MMOs to play more similarly to fighters. Light Punch, Med Punch, Hard Punch, etc with combos, and super moves (I know some games have something like supers, like WAR with Morale, and Aion with DP skills). Aion has a combo system, but it's nothing like a fighter's combos.
Another thing I always thought would be cool, but many others might not... What if there were extremely rare events that everyone couldn't experience. What if a dragon randomly came to an area and caused major destruction, and only the people in the immediate area could experience it. Or if you were doing whatever it is you're doing, then you get teleported to a god or powerful wizard, and only you (or your party) unlock a new quest line. Everyone might not be able to experience these things, but it would add some randomness to the world. Of course, these events would repeat, but not very often.
SW: ToR will have full voice, and I think all MMOs should have them. I would also like the ability to interact with my environment more. I noticed in CO, and DCUO you could pick things up and throw them. More games need mechanics like this, but also the ability to climb, swing off branches/poles, break down doors (no not like WAR, I mean actually break down doors).
My main concern, and the reason I'm not fond of PvE, is mob AI. Let's face it, mobs in MMOs are retarded. We really need better AI, and not reskinned mobs with the same abilities. I want to be worried that a mob will see me. I don't like the fact that I'm never scared, and can walk passed a bunch of mobs. Or how I killed a mobs friend 2 feet away and he doesn't give a damn until I step a little closer, or the mobs cries for help before death. The whole thing is boring, and is the reason why most people want to max level asap.
Another thing that bothers me about mobs is the fact that you will have many vicious animals all in the same area. Certain creatures should be rare to see, and a scary encounter. I don't want to see a field of powerful looking monsters, or even bears or lions walking around waiting to die. I would like to come across a powerful monster, a pack of wolves, or a pride of lions. The only time I would like to see many powerful monsters would be if they were on their way to attack an area. Other than that, they should be rare, and should not be easy to kill.
I call that mob overspread. I think most of the problem is over spawning in wide areas, but another part of the problem is you can see too much. There isn't enough underbrush in trees, the city zones are poorly laid out, the mountains aren't high enough, etc. I liked how EQ2 laid out some of the large cities. Everything was about the right size except the amount of city traffic. I would have expected more people in big cities.
So to sum it up there needs to be more thought put into population density. Huge cities should have huge populations. I'm talking in the tens of thousands. And no it's not too hard on the graphics if you know what you're doing. I saw a dx demo put out by ATI/AMD that had thousands of high detail animated models moving around the screen at the same time. I ran it on my HD 3870 and it looked amazing. Made me think why they don't do that kind of stuff for large crowds in MMOs. There are some details to take into consideration like the number of different models, clothing sets, items, etc to render but I mean you could at least do 100 NPCs walking around on one street. Adding in the 30 - 40 PCs that might be on the same street and you've got a game that players feel like is more alive, and more interesting and interactive that should be a walk in the park for any graphics card out in the last 3 years.
Then add more foliage to the forests, clear out a few areas for animal packs, prides, flocks, herds, etc and you're all set. No more trying to decide which of the 100 visible giant bugs to kill first.
-Greater Force