An Old AO Vet's: Opinion on the Changes coming to AS, FA, SA, Heals.

odian102

AO announced some major changes to: AS, FA, SA, and Heals.  Basically its out of control. Everyone is using AS, FA, or SA..

Example:

Docs sacrificing skills and implant slots to equip Bow or Rifles with AS on them. The Doc pistol uses Burst and Fling which are horrable choices for PvP...

Tons of classes are building there PvP option around those specials. The end result is a balance nightmare for AO...

 

SO....

 

Just for fun, I did a search on all my post on AO Offical forums. Started reading them. I was all over the map with ideas and suggestions. On some post I was right on target and others I was a complete idiot!!!

Kind of fun to look back at a "snap shot" in time and what you were thinking at that point.

From this view point: You can determine better if Funcom made the right call on adjustments. Were they correct, implemented a half baked solution, invested in good forsight and vision, or create problems that would have to be addressed in the future?

Anyway, It was fun to look back...

Here was one example: back in 2002....

 

Quote: 

Q:PvP, with the 1/2 crit,half damage. Good PvP weapons must be FA,AS,uber dmg. right?

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Have a question.

At work, (bored)

Start looking at PvP, under the current system.

Current system stats.

-half damage

-1/2 crit chance

-100% healing

When I started looking at weapons that can adjust for this,(ranged weapons-have never used melee) it leaves most of the weapons in the game out of the loop.

It seems that Fling and Burst took a big hit. (one exception-manex).

FLING Shoot:

Fling before the 1/2 crit implentation give u a decent chance to get a high damage shot, basically a crit. With the 1/2 crit nerf. Fling is just another normal shot. Most average weapons rely on this.

BURST shoot:

Most weapons that have burst without FA seem to do adv. damage and have a recycle rate on burst of about 30 sec.

Because PvP is 1/2 damage, the fight usually doesnt last long enough for the sec burst. Burst is basically 3 normal shoots. So, under the current system it is reduced to 1.5 shoots in pvp.

Medium Damage Weapons with high speeds:

The current system with the 1/2 crit and 1/2 damage kills these weapons.

Low Damage Weapons with super fast speed and a very high crit:

The 1/2 crit nerf seemed to nullify all these weapons. Most of these weapons if they have a special. it will be fling or burst. This gives very little incentive to pick them because what I stated above.

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So, It seems we are down to 3 types of weapons that can deal with the current pvp system: 1) mega damage 2)Aimshot and 3) FA.

MEGA DAMAGE weapons:

The current system is 100% heals, So in over to be effective you have to do more 1/2 damage then the 100% healing. If you had a weapon that does 1000 pts of damage normally, It would be 500 pts in pvp. Most weapons in the game dont do 1000 pts of damage normally. So, this leave us a hand full of weapons that are available-ie manax, OT-12, QB,...) Not that many. and most are very hard to get.

Aimshot weapons:

Aimshot has the potential of doing 10k of damage normally. So, in pvp that will equal a potential damage of 5k. This makes Aimshot a very viable choice, sense players hitpoints range from 5k-15k. Now there is the 40% heal rule. but if that every comes in to play. the opponent is already doomed.

Full Auto weapons:

Full auto weapons that have the capablity to reach 10k are mostly limited to Assault rifle class of weapons. And there are only a few in that class that have the potential to reach 10k damage. But the same rolls for Aimshot apply to Full Auto.

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Q: It seems to me that Fling, Burst in general are not the important specials to have in pvp. Is that right? Guns like Pistols, SMGs, and shotguns that have those specials are not good choices in pvp. the are exceptions like the manex. Even the uber Guns that have burst and fling are not good choices. The lvl 200 kick pistol and the Pain of Patrica are hendered here.

Example: lets look a the Kick Pistol. ( used my states to determine damage- lvl 187 trader)

My average damage would be 1000 pts. But in pvp it would be 500pts. My fling 90% of the time would be 500 pts in pvp. The burst normally is 3k. that would make it 1.5k in pvp. this would make it a combined special attack of 1.5k +500 = 2k on the average. Seems like the 1/2 crit and 1/2 damage really hurts Burst and fling.

Q: It seems that AO has hundereds of weapons but only a hand full can be used effectivly in PvP and with NW that is suppost to be the major addition to the game. Is that right?

Q: Burst, Fling, Crit dependand , med-damage weapons are the real losers here. Is that right?

Q: Everyone seems to look alike with only a handful of weapons that are viable. Is that right?

Q: Im I missing something here? Hundreds of weapons, but very few can be used. Maybe im not see it.

-signed Dazzed and Confused.

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Omni Trader on RK2

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Last edited by Odian102; Dec 18th, 2002 at 13:55:00.. [/q]

 

If I could warp back to 2002 and edit my post, I would have suggested a solution that was not so simplistic as the one Funcom implemented:

Current system stats.

-half damage

-1/2 crit chance

-100% healing

I would have suggested the following which would have allow the Developers more flexiblity on Balancing weapons in PvP than a straight - "half damage/half crit" simplistic solution:

Solution:

Add a new stat to each weapon, Simular to the current Attack rating cap. The new stat would be "PvP Efficiency". This PvP Efficiency rating would determine the damage cap for the weapon in PvP by a percentage. Example would be a PvP Effeciency of 100%, which means that the weapon will do 100% damage in PvP. A PvP Effeciency of 50% would mean the weapon would do 50% damage in PvP.

Just by adding this feature to weapons would allow the Developers to adjust damage based on the weapon, instead of a global effect like the current "half - damage" on all weapons.

This would allow the developers to revitalize old weapons which equals more variety and more choices. It allows for more deversity in PvP with a safe guard being the Developers can always adjust the "PvP Effeciency" on Overpowered/Underpowered weapons.

With this addition: Burst, Fling, Mid dmg, Fast Low dmg, and Very Slow High dmg weapons are not gimped in pvp. The PvP Effeciency stat can adjust for that.

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Overall Example of a current weapon with the PVP Effeciency stat in place:

Advanced Joint Clans Scout Pistol

Flags Visible, Modified Description

Can Carry, Wear, Fling Shot

Patch 14.9 15.0.1

QL 200

Change QL:

Type Weapon

Slot Right hand, Left hand

Value 1200000

Equip time 1s

Attack time 3s

Recharge time 1.5s

Range 26 m

Clip 36 - Bullets

Damage 45-420 (300) - Projectile AC

Attack rating cap 2000

PvP Efficiency 50%

Initiative skill Ranged init

Mass 0.98kg

Multi ranged 804

Attack skills Pistol 100 %

Defense skills Dodge ranged 100 %

Requirements

To Equip

User Profession == Adventurer and

User Pistol >= 1051 and

User Fling shot >= 526

EffectsOn Equip

User Modify Multi ranged 12

Notes:

If the Developers think that this weapon is not viable anymore in PvP, They can adjust the "PvP Efficiency" percentage.

Implementation of a PVP Efficiency stat:

1) Remove the global "50 % damage" on all weapons currently in place

2) add the PvP Effieciency Stat to all weapons and set it at 50%.

3) slowly bring back weapons into the mix by adjusting the PvP Efficiency.

4) adjust for balance on each weapon as the game continues to mature.

 

Javafan

You just need to show a little bit of patience until they write what they want to do with the game mechanics. Until now, everybody knows some sketchy general lines about FA, AS and SA sharing cooldown, some "incoming heal adjustment", but nothing specific.

Let them get all changes on Test and post more info on this. I bet there will be some few pages of changes when they'll publish it as I think they'll try to get most of the changes in 1 go on Test, both to let people have an overview and to temper down the flaming/trolling/doom-shouting posts.

At the moment, they only got the FA, AS and SA shared cooldown on test and they specifically said "it will not go to LIVE servers in this form". They wanted to see exactly what happens with the specials mechanics change.

odian102

I stil monitor AO from time to time. It was a great game.

I have been reading post of Mean's development group seriously taking on some balancing issue in the game (instead of bandaid- fixes)

I will come back if they do it right.

Like I mentioned above: Having hundreds of weapons in the game but only a few that are viable hurts the game overall.

Implementation of a PVP Efficiency stat would be a start in the right direction.....

1) Remove the global "50 % damage" on all weapons currently in place

2) add the PvP Effieciency Stat to all weapons and set it at 50%.

3) slowly bring back weapons into the mix by adjusting the PvP Efficiency.

4) adjust for balance on each weapon as the game continues to mature.

 

 

burmese

They'll adjust it how they like and none of us now know how things will be - won't even know a week before release as a lot of stuff will get tweaked on testlive at the end.  Any analysis now is like trying to figure what sort of sand castle a pile of sand will end up looking like.