You won't get your money back. I don't care what your credit card website says. I deal with this crap with my business everyday as a business owner. You knew what the timeframe was when you entered your information.
HAHAHAHAHA*pause for breath*HAHAHAHAHA
See, the nice thing about government is that it regulates business. Laws are in place to prevent abuses by greedy 'business owners' like yourself from abusing the people and running off with their money when no service has been provided. (Although I doubt you own anything that contributes to society, and if you do its most likely some lame Comic book store or computer repair shop, amirite?)
Oh and if he got into beta and they can prove that, he's probbably fucked.
You won't get your money back. I don't care what your credit card website says. I deal with this crap with my business everyday as a business owner. You knew what the timeframe was when you entered your information.
HAHAHAHAHA*pause for breath*HAHAHAHAHA
See, the nice thing about government is that it regulates business. Laws are in place to prevent abuses by greedy 'business owners' like yourself from abusing the people and running off with their money when no service has been provided. (Although I doubt you own anything that contributes to society, and if you do its most likely some lame Comic book store or computer repair shop, amirite?)
Oh and if he got into beta and they can prove that, he's probbably fucked.
The problem with fighting the charge backs is that it would cost SV more than the product in this case is worth and the reason why companies don't fight charge backs unless it's for a large sum. Secondly it gets even more complicated with the digital downloads. Lastly the box sales, if they want even a chance to fight the charge backs on box sales they have to ship on time and deliver what was stated would be delivered. Fighting charge backs are extremely hard for companies and in SV's case with everything taking into account pretty impossible.
SV is just trying to protect themselves from players paying for the pre-order to play for free (OB) and then canceling so they don't need to actually pay for the game. It's a bullshit trick done by the playerbase and I'm glad they are trying to stop this nonsense. Be honest OP, You had no intentions of buying MO you just wanted the Free Beta invite right?
where have you been?
traditionally that is what preorders have been
potential players buy the preorder for $5 and get the "privilege" of getting into beta and/or early start and/or crappy ingame items when you finally purchase the game - if you decide not to purchase you are out your $5 bucks - - - in this case there seems to be an average of about $100 pricetag for getting into beta
SV needed money to run their beta - hence these people paid for the beta (well, alpha in this case) despite poopooing from fanbois
Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.
You waved the right.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Just going to throw this out there, from experience
This has happened to me once before when I purchased something in-store (not a game, an actual item) that gave a limit on the amount of time you have to return the item. (30 days) When I purchased it, it turned out to be on backorder, so I paid and waited a week to get it, when it came in and I had it back home, a few more weeks passed and one day I noticed some damage to the item that was getting progressively worse.
I contacted the company, to resolve the issue, but at that point it was past the return date. (roughly by a week) they counted the backorder as the start of my purchase.
Anyways ,long story short I asked for a refund as I dropped the item off where I bought it... but they wouldn't give me one. I was tired and fed up, and I just called my bank, I didn't explain much of anything more then I did not own an item from that company andI said I wanted to dispute the transaction and I was done. Within less then a week the charge was removed from my account and the money was back. No word at all from the company, as I suppose they didn't try to dispute the claim at all though they would have a hard time I would imagine now that the item was sufficiently returned to their store even if they didn't want to acknowledge it.
All in all, what happened was I bought an item that passed a refund stage... made every attempt to get the company to right the wrong I felt they had done to me, and ultimately took it into my own hands to get my money back.
How that will transfer over in this case, I can't be TOO sure, but if my experience told me anything, its that most of the time, banks usually just refund now, and ask questions later. (literally, as sometimes they ask you to fill out a form after the fact) If the CC company takes care of this for the OP, it would be up to SV to try and deal with it. in the end.
Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.
You waved the right.
So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.
Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.
You waved the right.
So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.
Hey, clever salesmen trick people in the US all the time into buying POS American cars and we don't have a right to return them (past the 3 day limit)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.
You waved the right.
So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.
Hey, clever salesmen trick people in the US all the time into buying POS American cars and we don't have a right to return them (past the 3 day limit)
Sure you can return them but they depreciate in value by 10% or more as soon as the front tires leave the dealership's driveway.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.
You waved the right.
So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.
Hey, clever salesmen trick people in the US all the time into buying POS American cars and we don't have a right to return them (past the 3 day limit)
Sure you can return them but they depreciate in value by 10% or more as soon as the front tires leave the dealership's driveway.
I always found that funny, cause I test drive the car I'm looking to buy at least twice... so each time I test drive the car shouldn't they be taking 10% off the price each time I leave the dealership?
The more learn about this game the dodgier it is sounding. The money issues would all be fine if lots of people in the beta were happy about the game and the gameplay but they aren't.
Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.
You waved the right.
So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.
Hey, clever salesmen trick people in the US all the time into buying POS American cars and we don't have a right to return them (past the 3 day limit)
Sure you can return them but they depreciate in value by 10% or more as soon as the front tires leave the dealership's driveway.
Key difference here but of course you know it and just decided to ignore it:
You have the end product in your possession that you contracted for therefore you are under limitations as to the ability to return said product.
In this case who has their boxed copy of the game in hand yet?? Come on all you emos lets see a show of hands.......
Still waiting........
Oh thats right there is no product in hand yet so guess what????? YOU CAN CANCEL NO MATTER WHAT SV SAYS. Think otherwise? Take a basic business law class semester one and then tell me that.
Oh BTW the 3 day limit? It only applies to purchases made outside the sellers retail place of business but of course you knew that also.
I haven't read the entire thread; too long, I just have to say...SV is not an American company. They do not follow the laws of America in the term of refunds and returns. They do not have to follow those laws.
Yeah, it may suck; and the double postings suck; but that's why debit cards and credit cards have the option to dispute charges. So suck it up; and take responsibility, it's the chance you take for making a deal with a non-American company. I did the same, and haven't had a problem, and I am patiently, and happily waiting for my Beta block.
I haven't read the entire thread; too long, I just have to say...SV is not an American company. They do not follow the laws of America in the term of refunds and returns. They do not have to follow those laws. Yeah, it may suck; and the double postings suck; but that's why debit cards and credit cards have the option to dispute charges. So suck it up; and take responsibility, it's the chance you take for making a deal with a non-American company. I did the same, and haven't had a problem, and I am patiently, and happily waiting for my Beta block.
See that right there is another reason it gets tricky to fight the charge backs. That makes it even harder for SV to fight the charge backs not harder on the consumer. U.S. consumers have the decided upper hand in this whole mess due to a great number of reasons, others might be in the same position but the only group I know this applies to are the U.S. players. Online purchases are one of those area's where the laws again favor the customer and even more so than if it was an actual physical shop. With the amount of internet fraud and such out there you couldn't imagine how much the scale is tip'd in favor of the consumor. Considering SV is located in a completely different country all together when the U.S. consumor goes to there bank or CC company and explains the situation they would have no hesitation in doing the charge back and as I stated earlier there is little SV can do with all of the factors in play. You must keep in mind, CC companies especially don't want people afraid to spend there money. The more money people spend on those cards the more money the CC companies make. When a customer says "Hey, I don't have my product yet and I want my money back" CC companies have no issue doing that charge back to keep there customers happy. Like anything else it's a business and there in it to make money and the key to that for CC's is to keep those customers happy and spending money they don't have.
Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.
You waved the right.
So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.
Hey, clever salesmen trick people in the US all the time into buying POS American cars and we don't have a right to return them (past the 3 day limit)
And this isn't correct either lol, you just need to know your states lemon laws. And yes they very from state to state. I've returned 3 cars in my life (cars take a bit more work than a game lol). 1 was to carsmacks (Yes I know how it's spelled theres a reason for it) after it was totaled in a car wreck (This was allowed due to a faulty airbag which is also the reason for the lawsuit that followed and was settled out of court) and 2 others 1 of which had a bent frame and the other turned out to have had the mileage tampered with. Full refunds on all, but it did take some work on my part for those. The more expensive the item the more work it can be to get your money back.
The more learn about this game the dodgier it is sounding. The money issues would all be fine if lots of people in the beta were happy about the game and the gameplay but they aren't.
What are you talking about? Star Vault made it very clear before they offered the pre-orders that they would be non-refundable and that pre-ordering would get you access to beta.
I'm talking about a real beta test, like the ones we had back in the UO/EQ days, which was also made perfectly clear.
If someone that pre-ordered is making judgements on the game in a very early beta state and want their money back they have no one to blame but themselves.
I swear, MMO gamers seem to get whinier every year.
If the OP has already been invited to beta I hope that Star Vault proves that the OP has already had partial delivery of their purchase and is no longer entitled to a refund.
If the OP hasn't even been invited to beta yet, then I agree he should get a full refund and I'm sure his CC company will be happy to help.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Regardless if people are getting refunds or not, I seriously believe that unless there are certain circumstances such as loss of occupation or whatnot a life changing occurance that they should not get their money back, I have preordered the game and I'm happy with the decision because I know how an actual beta works not the sorry excuses for betas that they have now a days, just a glorified marketing scheme, more than an actual beta.
I feel sorry for SV that they have so many people bitching about refunds and what not, they shouldn't have to deal with giving people refunds because their to stupid to comprehend what is laid out before them. They stated before beta was even started what they would be including in the beginning of the beta and the majority of people trying to get refunds are trying for the refunds because they want the game gift wrapped in beta so they can play it instead of test it.
I like the laws to an extent, but I don't believe the response of the games beta wasn't what I expected is a reasonable reason to get a refund.
Regardless if people are getting refunds or not, I seriously believe that unless there are certain circumstances such as loss of occupation or whatnot a life changing occurance that they should not get their money back, I have preordered the game and I'm happy with the decision because I know how an actual beta works not the sorry excuses for betas that they have now a days, just a glorified marketing scheme, more than an actual beta.
I feel sorry for SV that they have so many people bitching about refunds and what not, they shouldn't have to deal with giving people refunds because their to stupid to comprehend what is laid out before them. They stated before beta was even started what they would be including in the beginning of the beta and the majority of people trying to get refunds are trying for the refunds because they want the game gift wrapped in beta so they can play it instead of test it.
I like the laws to an extent, but I don't believe the response of the games beta wasn't what I expected is a reasonable reason to get a refund.
Agree with you totally. If someone wants a refund because the beta was not what they expected then they should not be allowed a refund (though they can get one if they try).
The point is if they product is not delivered yet, which it isn't. Anyone can cancel an order and get a refund. Show me the laws of any country where that is not true. I want the actual citation, not some hearsay or wikii entry. The actual citation, code or statute or you are blowing smoke out your ass.
Does anyone else miss the days when AOL was still prominent and most of the stupidity on the net was contained within? Looking back, I'm coming to believe AOL was providing more of a service to the rest of us than its subscribers.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Most of you pre-ordering were not even going to buy the game, you just wanted a freebe. This is just another example of the scum in mmorpg communities. You paid for it, now tough shit.
Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.
You waved the right.
So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.
Don't agree to things you dont understand, or, sign it, just dont be surprised that what it said, was correct and will be enforced.
Did you read and agree to the terms and conditions? You only have yourself to blame if you now have regret. I think people just wanted a sure shot at a beta slot, and thought they could just pre-order, get the code, play some beta, and cancel. Even though it said IN PLAIN ENGLISH, no refunds. There is no controversy here.
Stuck on stupid I tell you.
What is with you people?
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Does anyone else miss the days when AOL was still prominent and most of the stupidity on the net was contained within? Looking back, I'm coming to believe AOL was providing more of a service to the rest of us than its subscribers.
Isn't that the truth man but as we see people just keep getting dumber. Ron White nailed it when he said "you can't fix stupid".
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
Well Mrbloodworth, an agreement can say whatever they want it to say, it still can't ignore the law and make contradicting terms. The law is the law and no business is above it, written agreement or not.
You waved the right.
So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.
Don't agree to things you dont understand, or, sign it, just dont be surprised that what it said, was correct and will be enforced.
Did you read and agree to the terms and conditions? You only have yourself to blame if you now have regret. I think people just wanted a sure shot at a beta slot, and thought they could just pre-order, get the code, play some beta, and cancel. Even though it said IN PLAIN ENGLISH, no refunds. There is no controversy here.
Stuck on stupid I tell you.
What is with you people?
You know Blood I always thought you were fairly intelligent, beginning to wonder now.
You can't sign away your rights and the law protects fools that try to. It doesn't matter what some 20 something in Europe says, he has no legal authority and I defy you to show me where anyone SIGNED A FRIGGING THING creating a contractual agreement with offer, counter offer, renumeration and delivery. SV has NOT delivered a single concrete product therefore a person is totally within their right to a refund for a non-delivered product.
I suggest you look up the law on how long a company has to deliver a product before they get on the wrong side of the law. In the US it is 30 days if memory serves. Well guess the F what, SV is past that point and now in violation. They have to inform you if a delivery will be delayed beyond 30 days in writting and offer you a refund if you refuse to accept the delay. Have you or anyone gotten a letter from them?
Didn't f'n think so. So give it up they have no recourse and at this point in time are in violation of US credit laws. Not too cool for them is it?
Gawd you internet kiddies are such tools. Learn some actual facts and quit relying on Wikii and other worthless sources.
No one should ever have expected them to grant refunds for this beta test. This was never intended to be a trial of the game for players. It is a beta test and has been non-refundable from the beginning.
They told everyone in advance that it would be non-refundable and also to expect the first weeks/months of the test to be rough. None of you have any right to complain now. Try researching what you buy before spending your money...
I just sit here laughing at all this cause it's not new, and sadly for all the people ticked at the op it's not legal either. Sony tried it back in the day with EQ2 and nearly every company has sence, if you read the fine print I'd say a 3rd every mmo that lets you into beta for any reason does so with you signing an agreement to buy their product. Yet no one has been sued if they decided not to, if this was a legal practice it would be a common occurance.
Unless they have a very good lawyer writing a new law to make it stick it won't work, it's just like a preorder at a massive retailer, if you decline to pick it up thats your choice. The beta access stuff that comes with it has nothing to do with the purchase of the game, it is a free gift for reserving the game and has no bearing on your purchase of the item as the money given is for the final product not that beta access.
It falls under truth in advertising they have to say that the beta access is not a free gift and that your paying for it, and x number of dollars is for said item. If they say it comes with your preorder it does not constitue a transaction unless expressly stated in a legal agreement that you agree to. It's like ordering stuff from walmart of best buy, their agreements page actually says they can change a products price at anytime even post sale and you are allowed to choose to pay the new price or decline the transaction.
These are not new arguments for mmo's for years the Terms of service agreement has been a hot legal item as on the box of many mmo's it says your character implying a players ownership of their account, while the ToS says that all items and characters in the game are the soul intelectual property of the game company and theirs to do with as they will when they will. In the end it boils down to who has the better lawyer and how the judge feels that day.
but if it says this is a beta your paying for, then yes you are boned unless they do not provide what was promissed to you in the contract.
Comments
HAHAHAHAHA*pause for breath*HAHAHAHAHA
See, the nice thing about government is that it regulates business. Laws are in place to prevent abuses by greedy 'business owners' like yourself from abusing the people and running off with their money when no service has been provided. (Although I doubt you own anything that contributes to society, and if you do its most likely some lame Comic book store or computer repair shop, amirite?)
Oh and if he got into beta and they can prove that, he's probbably fucked.
HAHAHAHAHA*pause for breath*HAHAHAHAHA
See, the nice thing about government is that it regulates business. Laws are in place to prevent abuses by greedy 'business owners' like yourself from abusing the people and running off with their money when no service has been provided. (Although I doubt you own anything that contributes to society, and if you do its most likely some lame Comic book store or computer repair shop, amirite?)
Oh and if he got into beta and they can prove that, he's probbably fucked.
The problem with fighting the charge backs is that it would cost SV more than the product in this case is worth and the reason why companies don't fight charge backs unless it's for a large sum. Secondly it gets even more complicated with the digital downloads. Lastly the box sales, if they want even a chance to fight the charge backs on box sales they have to ship on time and deliver what was stated would be delivered. Fighting charge backs are extremely hard for companies and in SV's case with everything taking into account pretty impossible.
where have you been?
traditionally that is what preorders have been
potential players buy the preorder for $5 and get the "privilege" of getting into beta and/or early start and/or crappy ingame items when you finally purchase the game - if you decide not to purchase you are out your $5 bucks - - - in this case there seems to be an average of about $100 pricetag for getting into beta
SV needed money to run their beta - hence these people paid for the beta (well, alpha in this case) despite poopooing from fanbois
any "bullshit trick" was done by SV - period
Learn to research before you buy something. Not their fault, not their problem.
-------------------------------------------------------------
"I have no idea what''s going on." - Tasos Flambouras
You waved the right.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Just going to throw this out there, from experience
This has happened to me once before when I purchased something in-store (not a game, an actual item) that gave a limit on the amount of time you have to return the item. (30 days) When I purchased it, it turned out to be on backorder, so I paid and waited a week to get it, when it came in and I had it back home, a few more weeks passed and one day I noticed some damage to the item that was getting progressively worse.
I contacted the company, to resolve the issue, but at that point it was past the return date. (roughly by a week) they counted the backorder as the start of my purchase.
Anyways ,long story short I asked for a refund as I dropped the item off where I bought it... but they wouldn't give me one. I was tired and fed up, and I just called my bank, I didn't explain much of anything more then I did not own an item from that company andI said I wanted to dispute the transaction and I was done. Within less then a week the charge was removed from my account and the money was back. No word at all from the company, as I suppose they didn't try to dispute the claim at all though they would have a hard time I would imagine now that the item was sufficiently returned to their store even if they didn't want to acknowledge it.
All in all, what happened was I bought an item that passed a refund stage... made every attempt to get the company to right the wrong I felt they had done to me, and ultimately took it into my own hands to get my money back.
How that will transfer over in this case, I can't be TOO sure, but if my experience told me anything, its that most of the time, banks usually just refund now, and ask questions later. (literally, as sometimes they ask you to fill out a form after the fact) If the CC company takes care of this for the OP, it would be up to SV to try and deal with it. in the end.
You waved the right.
So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
You waved the right.
So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.
Hey, clever salesmen trick people in the US all the time into buying POS American cars and we don't have a right to return them (past the 3 day limit)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You waved the right.
So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.
Hey, clever salesmen trick people in the US all the time into buying POS American cars and we don't have a right to return them (past the 3 day limit)
Sure you can return them but they depreciate in value by 10% or more as soon as the front tires leave the dealership's driveway.
_______
|___
\_______/
=
|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand
You waved the right.
So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.
Hey, clever salesmen trick people in the US all the time into buying POS American cars and we don't have a right to return them (past the 3 day limit)
Sure you can return them but they depreciate in value by 10% or more as soon as the front tires leave the dealership's driveway.
I always found that funny, cause I test drive the car I'm looking to buy at least twice... so each time I test drive the car shouldn't they be taking 10% off the price each time I leave the dealership?
The more learn about this game the dodgier it is sounding. The money issues would all be fine if lots of people in the beta were happy about the game and the gameplay but they aren't.
You waved the right.
So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.
Hey, clever salesmen trick people in the US all the time into buying POS American cars and we don't have a right to return them (past the 3 day limit)
Sure you can return them but they depreciate in value by 10% or more as soon as the front tires leave the dealership's driveway.
Key difference here but of course you know it and just decided to ignore it:
You have the end product in your possession that you contracted for therefore you are under limitations as to the ability to return said product.
In this case who has their boxed copy of the game in hand yet?? Come on all you emos lets see a show of hands.......
Still waiting........
Oh thats right there is no product in hand yet so guess what????? YOU CAN CANCEL NO MATTER WHAT SV SAYS. Think otherwise? Take a basic business law class semester one and then tell me that.
Oh BTW the 3 day limit? It only applies to purchases made outside the sellers retail place of business but of course you knew that also.
I haven't read the entire thread; too long, I just have to say...SV is not an American company. They do not follow the laws of America in the term of refunds and returns. They do not have to follow those laws.
Yeah, it may suck; and the double postings suck; but that's why debit cards and credit cards have the option to dispute charges. So suck it up; and take responsibility, it's the chance you take for making a deal with a non-American company. I did the same, and haven't had a problem, and I am patiently, and happily waiting for my Beta block.
See that right there is another reason it gets tricky to fight the charge backs. That makes it even harder for SV to fight the charge backs not harder on the consumer. U.S. consumers have the decided upper hand in this whole mess due to a great number of reasons, others might be in the same position but the only group I know this applies to are the U.S. players. Online purchases are one of those area's where the laws again favor the customer and even more so than if it was an actual physical shop. With the amount of internet fraud and such out there you couldn't imagine how much the scale is tip'd in favor of the consumor. Considering SV is located in a completely different country all together when the U.S. consumor goes to there bank or CC company and explains the situation they would have no hesitation in doing the charge back and as I stated earlier there is little SV can do with all of the factors in play. You must keep in mind, CC companies especially don't want people afraid to spend there money. The more money people spend on those cards the more money the CC companies make. When a customer says "Hey, I don't have my product yet and I want my money back" CC companies have no issue doing that charge back to keep there customers happy. Like anything else it's a business and there in it to make money and the key to that for CC's is to keep those customers happy and spending money they don't have.
You waved the right.
So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.
Hey, clever salesmen trick people in the US all the time into buying POS American cars and we don't have a right to return them (past the 3 day limit)
And this isn't correct either lol, you just need to know your states lemon laws. And yes they very from state to state. I've returned 3 cars in my life (cars take a bit more work than a game lol). 1 was to carsmacks (Yes I know how it's spelled theres a reason for it) after it was totaled in a car wreck (This was allowed due to a faulty airbag which is also the reason for the lawsuit that followed and was settled out of court) and 2 others 1 of which had a bent frame and the other turned out to have had the mileage tampered with. Full refunds on all, but it did take some work on my part for those. The more expensive the item the more work it can be to get your money back.
What are you talking about? Star Vault made it very clear before they offered the pre-orders that they would be non-refundable and that pre-ordering would get you access to beta.
I'm talking about a real beta test, like the ones we had back in the UO/EQ days, which was also made perfectly clear.
If someone that pre-ordered is making judgements on the game in a very early beta state and want their money back they have no one to blame but themselves.
I swear, MMO gamers seem to get whinier every year.
If the OP has already been invited to beta I hope that Star Vault proves that the OP has already had partial delivery of their purchase and is no longer entitled to a refund.
If the OP hasn't even been invited to beta yet, then I agree he should get a full refund and I'm sure his CC company will be happy to help.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Regardless if people are getting refunds or not, I seriously believe that unless there are certain circumstances such as loss of occupation or whatnot a life changing occurance that they should not get their money back, I have preordered the game and I'm happy with the decision because I know how an actual beta works not the sorry excuses for betas that they have now a days, just a glorified marketing scheme, more than an actual beta.
I feel sorry for SV that they have so many people bitching about refunds and what not, they shouldn't have to deal with giving people refunds because their to stupid to comprehend what is laid out before them. They stated before beta was even started what they would be including in the beginning of the beta and the majority of people trying to get refunds are trying for the refunds because they want the game gift wrapped in beta so they can play it instead of test it.
I like the laws to an extent, but I don't believe the response of the games beta wasn't what I expected is a reasonable reason to get a refund.
Agree with you totally. If someone wants a refund because the beta was not what they expected then they should not be allowed a refund (though they can get one if they try).
The point is if they product is not delivered yet, which it isn't. Anyone can cancel an order and get a refund. Show me the laws of any country where that is not true. I want the actual citation, not some hearsay or wikii entry. The actual citation, code or statute or you are blowing smoke out your ass.
Does anyone else miss the days when AOL was still prominent and most of the stupidity on the net was contained within? Looking back, I'm coming to believe AOL was providing more of a service to the rest of us than its subscribers.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Most of you pre-ordering were not even going to buy the game, you just wanted a freebe. This is just another example of the scum in mmorpg communities. You paid for it, now tough shit.
You waved the right.
So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.
Don't agree to things you dont understand, or, sign it, just dont be surprised that what it said, was correct and will be enforced.
Did you read and agree to the terms and conditions? You only have yourself to blame if you now have regret. I think people just wanted a sure shot at a beta slot, and thought they could just pre-order, get the code, play some beta, and cancel. Even though it said IN PLAIN ENGLISH, no refunds. There is no controversy here.
Stuck on stupid I tell you.
What is with you people?
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Isn't that the truth man but as we see people just keep getting dumber. Ron White nailed it when he said "you can't fix stupid".
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
You waved the right.
So if you waved your right cause a clever salesman fooled you, you got no rights? Don't think it works that way even down in the old US of A. Here in Norway atleast, that's not the case. You are guaranteed your rights no matter what.
Don't agree to things you dont understand, or, sign it, just dont be surprised that what it said, was correct and will be enforced.
Did you read and agree to the terms and conditions? You only have yourself to blame if you now have regret. I think people just wanted a sure shot at a beta slot, and thought they could just pre-order, get the code, play some beta, and cancel. Even though it said IN PLAIN ENGLISH, no refunds. There is no controversy here.
Stuck on stupid I tell you.
What is with you people?
You know Blood I always thought you were fairly intelligent, beginning to wonder now.
You can't sign away your rights and the law protects fools that try to. It doesn't matter what some 20 something in Europe says, he has no legal authority and I defy you to show me where anyone SIGNED A FRIGGING THING creating a contractual agreement with offer, counter offer, renumeration and delivery. SV has NOT delivered a single concrete product therefore a person is totally within their right to a refund for a non-delivered product.
I suggest you look up the law on how long a company has to deliver a product before they get on the wrong side of the law. In the US it is 30 days if memory serves. Well guess the F what, SV is past that point and now in violation. They have to inform you if a delivery will be delayed beyond 30 days in writting and offer you a refund if you refuse to accept the delay. Have you or anyone gotten a letter from them?
Didn't f'n think so. So give it up they have no recourse and at this point in time are in violation of US credit laws. Not too cool for them is it?
Gawd you internet kiddies are such tools. Learn some actual facts and quit relying on Wikii and other worthless sources.
No one should ever have expected them to grant refunds for this beta test. This was never intended to be a trial of the game for players. It is a beta test and has been non-refundable from the beginning.
They told everyone in advance that it would be non-refundable and also to expect the first weeks/months of the test to be rough. None of you have any right to complain now. Try researching what you buy before spending your money...
I just sit here laughing at all this cause it's not new, and sadly for all the people ticked at the op it's not legal either. Sony tried it back in the day with EQ2 and nearly every company has sence, if you read the fine print I'd say a 3rd every mmo that lets you into beta for any reason does so with you signing an agreement to buy their product. Yet no one has been sued if they decided not to, if this was a legal practice it would be a common occurance.
Unless they have a very good lawyer writing a new law to make it stick it won't work, it's just like a preorder at a massive retailer, if you decline to pick it up thats your choice. The beta access stuff that comes with it has nothing to do with the purchase of the game, it is a free gift for reserving the game and has no bearing on your purchase of the item as the money given is for the final product not that beta access.
It falls under truth in advertising they have to say that the beta access is not a free gift and that your paying for it, and x number of dollars is for said item. If they say it comes with your preorder it does not constitue a transaction unless expressly stated in a legal agreement that you agree to. It's like ordering stuff from walmart of best buy, their agreements page actually says they can change a products price at anytime even post sale and you are allowed to choose to pay the new price or decline the transaction.
These are not new arguments for mmo's for years the Terms of service agreement has been a hot legal item as on the box of many mmo's it says your character implying a players ownership of their account, while the ToS says that all items and characters in the game are the soul intelectual property of the game company and theirs to do with as they will when they will. In the end it boils down to who has the better lawyer and how the judge feels that day.
but if it says this is a beta your paying for, then yes you are boned unless they do not provide what was promissed to you in the contract.